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Kolb crash yesterday
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Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject: Kolb crash yesterday

http://www.timesnews.net/article.php?id=9013281

--

  "Gold cannot always get you good soldiers, but good soldiers can always 

get you gold"-- Niccolo Machiavelli

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:55 am Post subject: Re: Kolb crash yesterday

Ed is doing pretty well and will probably have surgery today to set his leg bones in place if the swelling in his leg has gone down enough. 



All of us have heard the phrase "He rolled it up into a ball?" Well, this is how a Kolb looks when you do that: notice the integrity of the main cockpit area. 



And yes - it is rebuildable and we do plan to rebuild it. 



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)



PS: Over the years most everybody - including me- have taken for granted the comparative fragility of Ivoprops. Uh - notice what the tail boom is wrapped around... Currently the prop is the only airworthy thing on the airplane - go figure.

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N111KX (Kip)

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 96
Location: Atlanta, GA

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:19 am Post subject: Re: Kolb crash yesterday

Amazing pics. Steel cages are good!

_________________
Kip
Firestar II, N111KX
Waiex, N111YX
Quickie 1, N111QX
Atlanta

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:08 am Post subject: Kolb crash yesterday

Ed's crash looks a lot worse than mine.  I hope he is resting comfortably, and heals up okay.  Give him my best wishes.  Yes, it does look re-buildable.  Mostly, lots of labor.

   "Before" photo's are at www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/kolb.htm

   The comments about the steel cage are correct- mine folded about the same way.  I barked my shins on the instrument panel, but no other leg damage.  I think if I was 20 years younger I wouldn't have taken the back and neck damage (no discs prior to the accident).  How old is Ed?

  

                                                Bill Sullivan

                                                Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                                FS 447

 [quote][b]

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Kolb crash yesterday

My heart goes out to Ed. His Kolb was a beauty and maybe he can rebuild it back to its original condition.



The sad part is that it didn't need to happen. Beware of landing in tight backyard airstrips. Had the tailwheel not caught on the fence, he would have made it. There have been times where a downdraft pushed me within inches of a powerline landing at small airstrips.



Ralph B

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:51 pm Post subject: Kolb crash yesterday

Richard



Inquiring minds want to know. How did the tail get rapped up over the top? I 

looks like the left wheel might have caught the fence flipping the plane 

over on the right wing but that doesn't explain how the boom tube got rapped 

up that way. Did the plane get turned around back wards right side up in the 

air then landed going backwards?? Any way it must have been a wild ride that 

last few seconds.  Thankfully he wasn't killed.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



---

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:51 pm Post subject: Kolb crash yesterday

At 05:55 AM 4/21/09 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  




	


Richard,



Some photos.  I don't understand how he could have wrapped the tail boom 

around the wing.  It all most looks like it was was rolled over backwards.  

This does not seem likely if one caught the tail wheel on a fence.  Is this 

after crash damage?  Can you fill in the mechanics of the crash?



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:33 pm Post subject: Kolb crash yesterday

Richard, it's the WINGS you are supposed to fold, not the tail.

BB

On 21, Apr 2009, at 8:55 AM, Richard Pike wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Ed is doing pretty well and will probably have surgery today to set  

 his leg bones in place if the swelling in his leg has gone down  

 enough.



 All of us have heard the phrase "He rolled it up into a ball?"  

 Well, this is how a Kolb looks when you do that: notice the  

 integrity of the main cockpit area.



 And yes - it is rebuildable and we do plan to rebuild it.



 Richard Pike

 MKIII N420P (42OldPoops)



 PS: Over the years most everybody - including me- have taken for  

 granted the comparative fragility of Ivoprops. Uh - notice what the  

 tail boom is wrapped around... Currently the prop is the only  

 airworthy thing on the airplane - go figure.





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 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 40441#240441





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Kirkds

Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 52
Location: Michigan

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb crash yesterday

Looks like the main gear caught the fence plunging the nose into the ground. The forward momentum carried the tail over the top as the cage was springing the fusalage back up in the air. A forward flip it came back down on the tail as the fusalage was still going forward through the air over the tail. My understanding was that when help arrived the fusalage was upside down and not as seen in the pics.

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject: Kolb crash yesterday

FWIW - if the fuselage were indeed upside-down when  found, it's one   

thing.

I suspect the tail caught the fence, it bent the boom tube upwards,  

then  the nose dug in, and then the boom tube folded up again and  

came to rest as in the pix.

If the plane were moved before the pix, another theorem. A forward  

roll does change things.

Russ K

do not archive

On Apr 21, 2009, at 7:33 PM, Kirkds wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Looks like the main gear caught the fence plunging the nose into  

 the ground. The forward momentum carried the tail over the top as  

 the cage was springing the fusalage back up in the air. A forward  

 flip it came back down on the tail as the fusalage was still going  

 forward through the air over the tail. My understanding was that  

 when help arrived the fusalage was upside down and not as seen in  

 the pics.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 40557#240557

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb crash yesterday

Probably should have put this in the original post, but just to help resolve the speculation - There was apparently a wind shear caused both by the local terrain and by a thermal cooking off, but either way - there was a sharp airpseed decay, the tailwheel hit the ground on the wrong side of the fence, but the mains cleared. (Love those VG's...) 



Hit the fence with the tailwheel, flipped it nose low, hit the grass with the left main first. The fitting where the landing gear leg attaches to the axle broke, the wheel came off, and the gear leg dug in. (Tongue in cheek comment follows:) That was not helpful.  (I WILL be talking this over with Travis) When we put it back together, the new fitting will get gusseted. I am also planning to gusset the fitting on my MKIII if it is similar. Fool me once, etc... 



With the wheel gone off the end of the left gear leg, the leg dug in, and that is probably when the nose hit. Then, as the airplane was spinning around the left gear leg, I think the tail hit next, the airplane having turned 180 degrees and is now going backwards, the tail hit, and the boom folded, and now the airplane rolled up the boom, ending up inverted, with the empennage wrapped around the gap seal. Not sure when or how the right wing was destroyed. Maybe it hit as the airplane spun 180 degrees. Strangest of all, the Ivoprop emerged unscathed! (weird...)

 

Ed is in good spirits, already discussing how we will put it back together, looks like his surgery is now set back a couple of weeks, situation unsure. We are praying for good healing.



It will take a while to put the FSII back together, but we are already committed to putting it back together with a goal of 50 pounds lighter, (It was porky, too many bells and whistles) stronger, and better than before. This is all just a speed bump on the road of life. Guys build things. (because God builds things, we imitate Him, we build things) Because we live in a fallen world, we tear stuff up, then we fix it and go on, then we tear it up, and fix it again, and go on. We are guys, that's what we do. Ed and I have talked it over, and it gives us something good to do. Not what we had planned, but so what? Keeps us out of worse mischief...



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:17 am Post subject: Kolb crash yesterday

This does not seem likely if one caught the tail wheel on a fence.>>



Hi Jack,

I thought that was strange.  I did the same thing in a Kranich Glider many 

years ago. It was like picking up the third wire with your arrestor hook. we 

suddenly lost flying speed, then the fence broke and the glider just fell to 

the ground and stood up on the front skid, almost flipped and then fell 

back.

With a Kolb with maybe an undercarriage tube sticking into the ground it 

could go either way.



Pat

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:37 am Post subject: Re: Kolb crash yesterday

 	  Richard Pike wrote: 	
		  



 (I WILL be talking this over with Travis) When we put it back together, the new fitting will get gusseted. I am also planning to gusset the fitting on my MKIII if it is similar. Fool me once, etc... 



	




That is a very good idea, this is not the first time things have been much worse than they should have been due to a landing gear breaking.  It seems like its worth the effort and little extra weight to have strong gear.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:06 am Post subject: Kolb crash yesterday

At 07:52 PM 4/21/09 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  


	


Richard,



Thanks for the explanation.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN



do not archive

tocprez(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:42 am Post subject: Kolb crash yesterday

Richard,

Glad to hear Travis is doing OK. That FSII looks like a scorpion with its "stinger boom" pointed forward.. Still have my Fergy F-IIB project and will sell it very

reasonable with or without the Geo/Raven engine.

                                                                                                      Bruce Bixler



---

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: Kolb crash yesterday

Bruce



Travis was not in the plane. You are aware that you are on the KOLB list not 

on the F...... list.



do not archive



Rick Neilsen

Redrive  VW powered MKIIIC



---

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:52 am Post subject: Kolb crash yesterday

Richard Pike- First, how is Ed doing?  Was he wearing a four point belt, or a six point?  The cage collapsed almost exactly like mine.  I was only wearing a lap belt, and that was probably what broke my pelvis.  I can see shoulder straps in the photos.  Also, what broke Ed's leg- the nose cone?  I had marks on my shins from the cone, but no breaks.

   Any damage to the main engine mount tube?  I can't tell from the photos.

  

                                                Bill Sullivan

                                                Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                                FS 447

 [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:09 am Post subject: Kolb crash yesterday

At 07:51 AM 4/24/2009, william sullivan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     Richard Pike- First, how is Ed doing?  Was he wearing a four point 

 belt, or a six point?  The cage collapsed almost exactly like mine.  I 

 was only wearing a lap belt, and that was probably what broke my 

 pelvis.  I can see shoulder straps in the photos.  Also, what broke Ed's 

 leg- the nose cone?  I had marks on my shins from the cone, but no breaks.


	


Sounds like a common result.  When my friends crashed in the MKIII, the 

results were broken legs, ankle, and pelvis.  Of course, they went in 

straighter and harder than you or Ed did.



-Dana



--

  It did what? Well, it's not supposed to do that.

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:33 am Post subject: Kolb crash yesterday

Dana- What's the progress on your friends?

  

                                       Bill Sullivan

                                       Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                       FS 447

 do not archive

 [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: Kolb crash yesterday

At 01:31 PM 4/24/2009, william sullivan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     Dana- What's the progress on your friends?


	


Bob (the pilot) was walking without a cane when I saw him a couple of weeks 

ago; he disassembled what was left and hauled the wreckage home.  However, 

he was going back into the hospital; the doctors planned to rebreak his 

ankle (ouch!) because they didn't like the way he was healing.  Dave has 

pretty much recovered by now.



-Dana



do not archive



--

  Those who CAN remember the past are condemned to live among idiots 

repeating it.

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