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Rudder travel

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glasair98hw(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:17 am Post subject: Rudder travel

I just heard about a possible problem with rudder travel on the Lightning. I would suggest that you check the travel of your rudder with full up elevator to see if you have the full 20* each way.  I heard of a plane with a restriction preventing only half travel with up elevator.  I haven't built mine yet but think the group should be aware of a possible problem.  Happy Holidays to all that do the "lifting" all year long.  Harry

n45bm(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:56 am Post subject: Rudder travel

Hello Harry,

I'm building mine at home, too. Can you be more specific about the problem? Where is the interference, and how can it be corrected? Thanks.

Bernardo Melendez, kit #110



--- On Sun, 12/19/10, Harry Weber <glasair98hw(at)comcast.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Harry Weber <glasair98hw(at)comcast.net>

Subject: Rudder travel

To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 7:14 AM



--> Lightning-List message posted by: Harry Weber <[url=/mc/compose?to=glasair98hw(at)comcast.net]glasair98hw(at)comcast.net[/url]>



I just heard about a possible problem with rudder travel on the Lightning. I would suggest that you  check the travel of your rudder with full up elevator to see if you have the full 20* each way.  I heard of a plane with a restriction preventing only half travel with up elevator.  I haven't built mine yet but think the group should be aware of a possible problem.  Happy Holidays to=   this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided

nbsp; --> http://forums.ma====================





	
 [quote][b]

selwyn

Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 102
Location: Australia

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:56 am Post subject: Re: Rudder travel

The interference is probably between the rear elevator bellcrank cross tube and the forward face of the rudder near the rudder cable attach points.  In the Esqual this cross tube is in line with the elevator hinge points so is not affected by elevator movement and the cross tube actually forms the rudder stop.  Arion have shifted the hinge point to the top skin of the elevator which causes the cross tube to move fore and aft with elevator movement.  Up elevator causes the tube to move aft and it acts as a premature rudder stop, with down elevator, the tube moves forward and there is no real rudder stop hence the recent newsletter information on rudder stops.



On my aircraft, if I have full back stick I can manually move the rudder over until it interferes with the cross tube but it is difficult to achieve this interference moving the rudder via the pedals, it only happens at the extremes and I have never noticed it, even on the ground taxying with back stick and full rudder.  I would imagine something similar occurs with most Lightnings.



Full back stick, full rudder is not a normal flight configuration nor is it a likely emergency configuration.  If you are trying to recover from inverted spins then you are way outside the design envelope 



I'd be curious where the figure of 20 degrees rudder travel came from?  It is not in my build manual and I can't see it in the current versions.  Some LSA documentation perhaps?

_________________
Cheers, Selwyn
Kit 66 VH-ELZ

info(at)flylightning.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:05 am Post subject: Rudder travel

I don't think we state 20 degrees of travel rather about 7" or so deflection

right or left when measured at the bottom of the rudder. The fact that you

do not get full rudder at full up elevator is really not a problem. I guess

if you wanted to keep it in a spin this might be important. I can think of a

time when I have been full up and full rudder, rotation or landing does not

require near full up elevator so rudder travel is not limited in that flight

scenario. But as Selwyn says his inverted flat spins are a bit troublesome

to recover from and my snap rolls are not as tight, but again way out of the

flight envelope....

No I do not snap roll the lightning it a joke, dont email me about entry

speeds.....



Nick



--

voroninmax(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:12 am Post subject: Rudder travel

Hi Nick,

  

 What's your entry speed in a sna... oh, never mind.

  

 Max

 On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:02 AM, flylightning <info(at)flylightning.net (info(at)flylightning.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Lightning-List message posted by: "flylightning" <info(at)flylightning.net (info(at)flylightning.net)>

 

I don't think we state 20 degrees of travel rather about 7" or so deflection

right or left when measured at the bottom of the rudder. The fact that you

do not get full rudder at full up elevator is really not a problem. I guess

 if you wanted to keep it in a spin this might be important. I can think of a

time when I have been full up and full rudder, rotation or landing does not

require near full up elevator so rudder travel is not limited in that flight

 scenario. But as Selwyn says his inverted flat spins are a bit troublesome

to recover from and my snap rolls are not as tight, but again way out of the

flight envelope....

No I do not snap roll the lightning it a joke, dont email me about entry

 speeds.....



Nick

  

 

--

glasair98hw(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:32 am Post subject: Rudder travel

Thanks everyone for the info. I looked at the manual and didn't see any definition of 20* for the rudder. I also wondered if I had missed something.  My Glasair III had definite degrees of movement required as it was aerobatic probably.  As the story was relayed to me, this pilot encountered some propwash from a plane ahead and almost hit some trees on takeoff. Sometimes stories get embellished I know.  I can't wait to start building so I will be more knowledgeable.  This looks like a great group of information sharing builders just as the Glasair group is. If I do snap rolls it will probably be on short final and unintentional, just over control...Harry



For the holidays, remember the liver is evil and must be punished!

---

selwyn

Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 102
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:27 am Post subject: Re: Rudder travel

Roger on the liver  



As far as the rest goes, bugger the entry speeds, as long as the wings are still on out the other side who cares

_________________
Cheers, Selwyn
Kit 66 VH-ELZ

selwyn

Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 102
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:34 am Post subject: Re: Rudder travel

And another thing, Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all!



If you are building, keep at it because the result is fantastic.  If you are flying, fly some more and wipe that silly grin off your face  .

_________________
Cheers, Selwyn
Kit 66 VH-ELZ

ple190

Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 23
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Merry Xmas

Selwyn,sounds like your enjoying your machine, have you got all the test flying done ?? Mine is progressing well, paint done now onto engine and avionics,I decided to go with the skyview gear.

Merry Xmas to all and thanks for all the good info !!

See attached pics

Regards

Paul

selwyn

Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 102
Location: Australia

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Merry Christmas

Hi Paul,



Looks like yours is coming along well, I hope you are enjoying the building.



I've finished my test flying with very little in the way of changes required, two turns on one flap linkage to correct a slight right wing low tendency was about it.  I built mine without the optional sump cooling duct and had some oil temperature problems as the weather warmed up so last week I fabricated and installed the sump duct and cut the air entry in the cowl under the spinner.  Oil temperature has dropped by around 15 C and the introduction of additional air into the lower cowl does not seem to have affected the airflow over the cylinders, CHT's have not changed, so I'm happy with the result.  My thought is that the sump cooling is an essential mod in this environment.



The picture is us taxiing out for first flight.



Merry Christmas.

_________________
Cheers, Selwyn
Kit 66 VH-ELZ

n5pb(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:04 am Post subject: Rudder travel

Selwyn,

Very nice "jet"!! Hope you have many fun full hours flying her!!!



Bear

N82PB





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