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Zero timing a O-240-E engine

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BlueSkyFlier

Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 74
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:24 am Post subject: Zero timing a O-240-E engine

Hi Scott,



You wrote: "The new windshield should be easy.  The company that has the molds is Aircraft Windshield Company, 562-430-8108 in the Los Angeles area. What kind of engine do you have?"



Thank you for the windshield info. I shall contact them forthwith.



My engine is a Rolls Royce Continental O-240-E as originally fitted to Cessna FRM-150 Aerobats out of the Reims factory in France.



More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_O-240



Does anyone have knowledge of a reliable shop where I can have the engine zero-timed for a fair price?



Regards,

            Alfred

_________________
_________________________________________

Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:42 am Post subject: Zero timing a O-240-E engine

Alfred



when you get a price for the windshield  , please share the info . also Some

time back we had some discussions on the thickness and the material, maybe

look in the archives



Keith

                                                                                                                                                

  From:       "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com>                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                

  To:         kis-list(at)matronics.com                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                                                

  Date:       04/03/2011 13:28                                                                                                                  

                                                                                                                                                

  Subject:    Zero timing a O-240-E engine                                                                                            

                                                                                                                                                

  Sent by:    owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                






Hi Scott,



You wrote: "The new windshield should be easy.  The company that has the

molds is Aircraft Windshield Company, 562-430-8108 in the Los Angeles area.

What kind of engine do you have?"



Thank you for the windshield info. I shall contact them forthwith.



My engine is a Rolls Royce Continental O-240-E as originally fitted to Cessna

FRM-150 Aerobats out of the Reims factory in France.



More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_O-240



Does anyone have knowledge of a reliable shop where I can have the engine

zero-timed for a fair price?



Regards,

            Alfred



--------

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bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:05 am Post subject: Zero timing a O-240-E engine

3/4/2011



Hello Alfred, You wrote: "Does anyone have knowledge of a reliable shop 

where I can have the engine zero-timed for a fair price?"



I don't know how the regulations read in your part of the world, but in the 

USA the only entity that is authorized to return an engine to zero time 

through a remanufacturing or rebuilding process is the original manufacturer 

of the engine.



Both Lycoming and TCM have service bulletins published on the subject of 

prop strikes or engine sudden stoppages. I will dig them out and post them 

if you are interested.



'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to 

gather and understand knowledge."



=============================================================



From: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com>

To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 7:24 AM

Subject: Zero timing a O-240-E engine

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com>



 Hi Scott,



 You wrote: "The new windshield should be easy.  The company that has the 

 molds is Aircraft Windshield Company, 562-430-8108 in the Los Angeles 

 area. What kind of engine do you have?"



 Thank you for the windshield info. I shall contact them forthwith.



 My engine is a Rolls Royce Continental O-240-E as originally fitted to 

 Cessna FRM-150 Aerobats out of the Reims factory in France.



 More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_O-240



 Does anyone have knowledge of a reliable shop where I can have the engine 

 zero-timed for a fair price?



 Regards,

            Alfred

ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:44 am Post subject: Zero timing a O-240-E engine

I think the original was 1/8", I had Rich get me one 3/16". If memory 

serves, that was in 1993.

---

BlueSkyFlier

Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 74
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine

OC,



The manufacturer info about prop strikes you mentioned earlier will be most welcome. I expect that there will be duly licensed shops which can also zero-time an engine.  There has been talk of Norvik, but I have not had time to look that up yet.



Regards,

            Alfred

_________________
_________________________________________

galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:01 pm Post subject: Zero timing a O-240-E engine

I can highly recommend an engine shop (Zephyr Engines) here in the USA. They did the prop strike rebuild on my engine (Lycoming O-360) 250hrs ago and they did an awesome job.

  

 Galin

 On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:24 AM, BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com (bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> KIS-List message posted by: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com (bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com)>

  

Hi Scott,



You wrote: "The new windshield should be easy.  The company that has the molds is Aircraft Windshield Company, 562-430-8108 in the Los Angeles area. What kind of engine do you have?"



  Thank you for the windshield info. I shall contact them forthwith.



My engine is a Rolls Royce Continental O-240-E as originally fitted to Cessna FRM-150 Aerobats out of the Reims factory in France.



More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_O-240

  

Does anyone have knowledge of a reliable shop where I can have the engine zero-timed for a fair price?



Regards,

           Alfred



--------

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[b]

fredorosa(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:27 pm Post subject: Zero timing a O-240-E engine

Galin,



You need to wait another 1,750 hours before you declare an awesome job.





Al



 On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] I can highly recommend an engine shop (Zephyr Engines) here in the USA. They did the prop strike rebuild on my engine (Lycoming O-360) 250hrs ago and they did an awesome job.

  

 Galin

 On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:24 AM, BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com (bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> KIS-List message posted by: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com (bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com)>

   

Hi Scott,



You wrote: "The new windshield should be easy.  The company that has the molds is Aircraft Windshield Company, 562-430-8108 in the Los Angeles area. What kind of engine do you have?"



   Thank you for the windshield info. I shall contact them forthwith.



My engine is a Rolls Royce Continental O-240-E as originally fitted to Cessna FRM-150 Aerobats out of the Reims factory in France.



More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_O-240

   

Does anyone have knowledge of a reliable shop where I can have the engine zero-timed for a fair price?



Regards,

           Alfred



--------

_________________________________________



  

 Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.==========

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et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

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_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:12 pm Post subject: Zero timing a O-240-E engine

Well, with Zephyr Engines being rated #1 in the last 3 AOPA polls there are others out there that feel the same as I do. Besides, I can declare and recommend whatever I want even if you don't agree. ;o)



  Galin



On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 3:25 PM, ALFRED ROSA <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]  Galin,



You need to wait another 1,750 hours before you declare an awesome job.





Al



   On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		     I can highly recommend an engine shop (Zephyr Engines) here in the USA. They did the prop strike rebuild on my engine (Lycoming O-360) 250hrs ago and they did an awesome job.

  

 Galin

 

On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:24 AM, BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com (bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com)> wrote:

   

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> KIS-List message posted by: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com (bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com)>

     

Hi Scott,



You wrote: "The new windshield should be easy.  The company that has the molds is Aircraft Windshield Company, 562-430-8108 in the Los Angeles area. What kind of engine do you have?"



     Thank you for the windshield info. I shall contact them forthwith.



My engine is a Rolls Royce Continental O-240-E as originally fitted to Cessna FRM-150 Aerobats out of the Reims factory in France.



More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_O-240

     

Does anyone have knowledge of a reliable shop where I can have the engine zero-timed for a fair price?



Regards,

           Alfred



--------

_________________________________________



    

 Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.==========

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   http://forums.m le, List Admin.

  =====







et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

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_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	




   	  Quote: 	
		  



et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

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[b]

BlueSkyFlier

Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 74
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine

After doing my homework I decided to get the work done this side of the pond. After weeding out the bad apples the potential repair shops are:



http://www.arrowaviationservices.co.uk/page7.php

http://www.nicholsonmclaren.com/

http://norvic.com/en/Lycoming_Continental_Franklin_shockload



CFS at Coventry - http://www.cfsaeroproducts.co.uk/engines.html

Airspeed at Derby - http://www.derbyaeroclub.com/Airspeed.html

Dukeries Aviation, Netherthorpe - Dave Bonsall Netherthorpe, Worksop, Nottinghamshire S80 3JQ, Tel: 01909481802

Multiflight - http://www.multiflight.com/engineering/capabilities-and-approvals.php

CSE - http://www.avbuyer.com/PDFs/CSE%20Page%202.pdf



As the first three are the closest, one of them will most likely be chosen unless significant price advantage comes from one of the remaining lot - transport costs can easily erode the advantage.



Regards,

            Alfred.

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bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:25 pm Post subject: Zero timing a O-240-E engine

3/4/2011



Hello Alfred, You wrote:



1) "The manufacturer info about prop strikes you mentioned earlier will be 

most welcome."



Please see below links and the attached TCM SB96-11B:



http://www.tcmlink.com/fiddefault.aspx?cgroup=MATTITUCK&cpagename=SS



http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/service-bulletins/pdfs/SB533A.pdf



2) "I expect that there will be duly licensed shops which can also zero-time 

an engine."



In the USA this is not true. Here is an extract from US Part 14 CFR (Code of 

Federal Regulations):



"91.421   Rebuilt engine maintenance records.



(a) The owner or operator may use a new maintenance record, without previous 

operating history, for an aircraft engine rebuilt by the manufacturer or by 

an agency approved by the manufacturer.



(b) Each manufacturer or agency that grants zero time to an engine rebuilt 

by it shall enter in the new record-



(1) A signed statement of the date the engine was rebuilt;

(2) Each change made as required by airworthiness directives; and

(3) Each change made in compliance with manufacturer's service bulletins, if 

the entry is specifically requested in that bulletin.

(c) For the purposes of this section, a rebuilt engine is a used engine that 

has been completely disassembled, inspected, repaired as necessary, 

reassembled, tested, and approved in the same manner and to the same 

tolerances and limits as a new engine with either new or used parts. 

However, all parts used in it must conform to the production drawing 

tolerances and limits for new parts or be of approved oversized or 

undersized dimensions for a new engine."



What 91.421 is saying:



A} Only a rebuilt (or new) engine gets a new (zero time) maintenance record 

(engine log book).



B} An overhauled engine does not get a new (zero time) maintenance record 

(engine log book).



C} Only the manufacturer or an agency approved by the manufacturer can 

create a rebuilt engine.



Even Teledyne Mattituck Services Inc which is owned by TCM does not use the 

term rebuilt in any of their literature, but instead uses the term 

overhauled. I am unaware of any agency in the US that either Lycoming or TCM 

has approved, other than themselves, to rebuild (zero time) their engines.



What do the regulations in your country permit?



Here is some additional information on this subject:



http://www.mattituck.com/articles/ohterms.htm



http://www.lycoming.textron.com/engines/service/zero-time-rebuilt-engines.html



3) "There has been talk of Norvik, but I have not had time to look that up 

yet."



I see only the term overhauled used on their web site:



http://norvic.com/en/Aircraft_engine_overhaul_exchange_shockload_repair



'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to 

gather and understand knowledge."



=========================================================

From: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com>

To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:52 AM

Subject: Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com>



 OC,



 The manufacturer info about prop strikes you mentioned earlier will be 

 most welcome. I expect that there will be duly licensed shops which can 

 also zero-time an engine.  There has been talk of Norvik, but I have not 

 had time to look that up yet.



 Regards,

            Alfred

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BlueSkyFlier

Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 74
Location: UK

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:16 am Post subject: Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine

Thank you kindly for the references OC. That will come in handy for preparation of the RFQ.



Sidebar: In my parlance 'zero-timed' means that the engine is returned to a state where it has another 2000 hours before next manufacturer overhaul. That does not mean it is re-built or remanufactured, nor does it mean that a new logbook is created.



Too bad if that terminology doesn't match some book definition. The longest life you can get on the engine is 2000 hrs, so if you have that in hand you have zero time (SMOH) on it ... chuckle ... that's why I fly a KIS -- keep it simple )



Cheers and thanks again for the advice.

           

-- Alfred

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BlueSkyFlier

Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 74
Location: UK

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine

Hallo Scott,



(Replying in this thread to your message in the "Wing Fairing" tread.)



Upon meeting, the Cessna's aileron and my prop shook hands first. Both being sharp edged, that would have helped to take the worst edge off the engine shock profile. The remaining stubs passed freely beneath the wing before splintering further against the side of the Cessna's engine compartment - the alu panels giving way would have helped to slow the engine down. The very tip of the quite prominent spinner then got jammed somewhere on the Cessna engine mounting and stalled the engine as the spinner's alu shell twisted somewhat - but no damage to spinner attachment points or any other part of the engine assembly (besides cooling intake and a slight shift on top left engine mounting rubber).



So, all things considered, the engine was spared as much as one could have hoped for in any event. It does still turn over by hand with good compression and no strange sounds. I'll do a compression check and starter churn check before firing her up again - only briefly due to lack of air flow. Then we'll take the engine off.



With a complete top overhaul (incl magnetos, starter and carb) done only 50 hours ago, I am hoping that the inspection/repair can be facilitated/expedited by taking it to the same shop.  Hopefully they will allow me to do most of the stripping and assembly - once again I'll learn (have rebuilt a couple of Anglia and Suzuki engines in my misspent youth) and save a few bob too.



The forum information regarding alternator linkage will come in handy too.



Cheers,

          Alfred

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