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n76lima(at)mindspring.com
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 Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:52 pm Post subject: aileron bracket |
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Where did you get a replacement bracket?
There haven't been any new ones in a while, and all the used ones seem to be out-of-round in the bearing collar.
--Bob Steward
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:28 am Post subject: aileron bracket |
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I didn't. I ordered one from Fletcher. Garner didn't say there weren't any. This is going to suck big time.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
| Quote: | On Dec 28, 2013, at 8:51 PM, Bob Steward <n76lima(at)mindspring.com> wrote:
Where did you get a replacement bracket?
There haven't been any new ones in a while, and all the used ones seem to be out-of-round in the bearing collar.
--Bob Steward
ky·èžÛ"Í휢Z+ÓM4ÓGÚqç(º¸ž®w°r‹«‰êÏ•æ¬y+©¦Šíb‹«.+-±8b°Ê'¶'tgJ‰ža8ÁDA‰ûl6‹Þ™·«ŠËax 繩KŠËEºwQj+ ¬)brJ'¶‚¢{k‰»Š‰åŠyzZ0¶‡âÚ.¶j+y¦èºÛaŠÌžj»zºâ~'çˆÇ§¶+Þ'í²šè¾'^u¼€zº•ç-®'†·Ÿ†Ûiÿü0Á§«¡é^rÚâqÊ&à zº •ç-®' ¢oÚNº)]z»¢‰,¶ŠÞjÞ~m§ÿðÃîŠW^®Æè¢K ¢l0Á»¢•×«±º(’Ç(›ö‡¢g›º)m BÏjÞ~m§ÿðÃh™æîŠ[azZ\¢l0Â&y»¢–Ø^–—(›öŒÈø¥¢Ô¢·š†·Ÿ†Ûiÿü0Âl©ŠZ-²Ú+yÊ&à &ʘ¥¢Û-¢·œ¢oÚE§ ‰ìº[bž¡çá¶Úÿ 0šºÚqç(› 0šºÚqç(›ö‹ŠËB¢{k‰»Š‰Öy´¢µæ¡çá¶Úÿ 0™«k¢xœ±Ê&ýÊ'¶¸›ºØ¨žm§ÿðà š¶º'‰Ë ¢oÜ¢{k‰»Š‰ÿi8ZžL¨¹ú+Ê‹«éÞ®‹¬²êi¢»LjÛC©ex¸¬´fŠtáy7š˜jîšf§.+-f¢”Z+ºe,zØ^1«k¢xœ°¸¬´Wš¶êÞ°Ö¯Š¢»hnº0±ëazf§È¸¬¶ëb–+bzË.r¬.+-RÒ¹» ®*mŠ‰ÀÈb½äžj·!Œ'–†ì6²º0±à¡jÑ(at)(at)øh¶‹!j·šÙ®r®r¨æ¡çá¶Úÿ 0™«k¢xœ±Ê&üÖ¯Š¢´Þja«ºišœ¸¬¶m§ÿðà š¶º'‰Ë ¢oÍjø jÚ+M榻¦™©ËŠËhÀDãH %„S‘PÄ’jg ær‰íz{Z–ʽ¨¥i¹^¾&…åžlZ+ºk†·Ÿ†Ûiÿ÷è®é¬™«k¢xœ±Ê&†Ûiÿ÷è®é¬™«k¢xœ±Ê&ý¯Ûýú'·úk{öèw/á¶i
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grumpyparts
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 65
Location: EGHH
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| Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:56 am Post subject: Re: aileron bracket |
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Garner has just had a new batch made, both the -501's and -504's. They now come without the attachment holes drilled for match drilling to the rear spar holes.
He may be along latter to give more details.
As for the aileron stops there has been many changes along the way, the attached picture shows just fours types I have found out there.
We are up to -4 so assuming the others mat have been -1's to -3's.
Again Garner may be able to confirm.
Ian Mattreface
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ellismcgaughy(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:32 am Post subject: Aileron bracket |
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It was either Ken, Bob or Dave that taught me that the metal plate sandwiches the aileron bracket between the plate and the rear spar. when I bought my 77 tiger from a gentleman in 2005, the plate was installed like a spacer between the spar and the aileron bracket. I flew this way for years and had at least 5 different IAs do my annuals. I have since acquired my A&P and dig more into the details than most other mechanics. That's how I found mine were installed wrong. I'm not even sure at the moment if the parts manual shows them in the correct order. Fortunately, my brackets had not cracked. I took them down to bare metal, inspected for cracks, reprinted, and installed them correctly last year.
Lesson learned.....don't assume the airplane is assembled correctly especially when you buy one used.
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:43 am Post subject: aileron bracket |
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This is a 79 Cheetah. The stop looks like one of your earlier ones.
On Sunday, December 29, 2013 1:01 AM, grumpyparts <i.r.m(at)btinternet.com> wrote:
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "grumpyparts" <i.r.m(at)btinternet.com (i.r.m(at)btinternet.com)>
Garner has just had a new batch made, both the -501's and -504's. They now come without the attachment holes drilled for match drilling to the rear spar holes.
He may be along latter to give more details.
As for the aileron stops there has been many changes along the way, the attached picture shows just fours types I have found out there.
We are up to -4 some assuming the others mat have been -1's to -3's.
Again Garner may be able to confirm.
Ian Mattreface
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416314#416314
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aileron_stops_288.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aileron_stops_2_366.j= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)[b]http://wwsp; -Matt Dror?TeamGrumman-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?T ===========
[quote][b]
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:44 am Post subject: Aileron bracket |
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It can't go on the outside of the bracket. The bracket has a raised portion that bends the spacer. The spacer goes between the bracket and the spar. I don't care what anyone else says.
On Sunday, December 29, 2013 4:37 AM, Ellismcgaughy <ellismcgaughy(at)gmail.com> wrote:
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Ellismcgaughy <ellismcgaughy(at)gmail.com (ellismcgaughy(at)gmail.com)>
It was either Ken, Bob or Dave that taught me that the metal plate sandwiches the aileron bracket between the plate and the rear spar. when I bought my 77 tiger from a gentleman in 2005, the plate was installed like a spacer between the spar and the aileron bracket. I flew this way for years and had at least 5 different IAs do my annuals. I have since acquired my A&P and dig more into the details than most other mechanics. That's how I found mine were installed wrong. I'm not even sure at the moment if the parts manual shows them in the correct order. Fortunately, my brackets had not cracked. I took them down to bare metal, inspected for cracks, reprinted, and installed them correctly last year.
Lesson learned.....don't assume the airplane -> http://www http://forums.m=====================
[quote][b]
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:46 am Post subject: aileron bracket |
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Too bad about not having the holes drilled. It's a pain in the ass to get them in the right spot. I've never had a problem with a predrilled bracket.
On , Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
This is a 79 Cheetah. The stop looks like one of your earlier ones.
On Sunday, December 29, 2013 1:01 AM, grumpyparts <i.r.m(at)btinternet.com> wrote:
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "grumpyparts" <i.r.m(at)btinternet.com (i.r.m(at)btinternet.com)>Garner has just had a new batch made, both the -501's and -504's. They now come without the attachment holes drilled for match drilling to the rear spar holes. He may be along latter to give more details.As for the aileron stops there has been many changes along the way, the attached picture shows just fours types I have found out there.We are up to -4 some assuming the others mat have been -1's to -3's.Again Garner may be able to confirm.Ian MattrefaceRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416314#416314Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/aileron_stops_288.jpghttp://forums.matronics.com//files/aileron_stops_2_366.jpghttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List_===================
[quote][b]
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n76lima(at)mindspring.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:25 am Post subject: Aileron bracket |
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Ellis was calling the steel stop a "spacer", not suggesting that the shim(s), if any, mount to the aft side of the bearing bracket. He and I corresponded about his rigging, some months ago.
--Bob Steward
Gary L Vogt wrote:
It can't go on the outside of the bracket. The bracket has a raised portion that bends the spacer. The spacer goes between the bracket and the spar. I don't care what anyone else says.
--> by: Ellismcgaughy
It was either Ken, Bob or Dave that taught me that the metal plate sandwiches the aileron bracket between the plate and the rear spar. when I bought my 77 tiger from a gentleman in 2005, the plate was installed like a spacer between the spar and the aileron bracket. I flew this way for years and had at least 5 different IAs do my annuals. I have since acquired my A&P and dig more into the details than most other mechanics. That's how I found mine were installed wrong. I'm not even sure at the moment if the parts manual shows them in the correct order. Fortunately, my brackets had not cracked. I took them down to bare metal, inspected for cracks, reprinted, and installed them correctly last year.
Lesson learned.....
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n76lima(at)mindspring.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:33 am Post subject: aileron bracket |
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I've seen a number with the SPAR drilled off-center. I repaired several by flush riveting a 0.060" doubler on the forward side, filling the holes in the spar with DevCon epoxy, and then centering the bearing bracket and re-drilling the holes.
I believe this is what Ian was talking about, not the bracket being mis-drilled.
And this is good news about new production. I've needed at least a half dozen of these in the past year.
--Bob Steward
Gary L Vogt wrote:
Too bad about not having the holes drilled. It's a pain in the ass to get them in the right spot. I've never had a problem with a predrilled bracket.
---> posted by: "grumpyparts"
Garner has just had a new batch made, both the -501's and -504's. They now come without the attachment holes drilled for match drilling to the rear spar holes.
He may be along latter to give more details.
As for the aileron stops there has been many changes along the way, the attached picture shows just fours types I have found out there.
We are up to -4 some assuming the others mat have been -1's to -3's.
Again Garner may be able to confirm.
Ian Mattreface
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
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garnerrice(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:03 am Post subject: aileron bracket |
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Questions on the 901010-501 and 902010-504 outboard aileron brackets.
The company that was supplying them before was the same that was supplying them to Tiger Aircraft. For reason the tooling was destroyed after Tiger ceased production. I drove to Wichita Kansas on the way to AYA Oshkosh, to look over the remaining tooling and with the hopes that the tooling was still there. They still had some tooling, but nothing to make the aileron bracket. Then I went to another company in Wichita. They showed me quite a bit of Tiger tooling, but no joy. They did ask me if I was interested in paying the storage for the tools. The first company said they could remake the tool. After several months they gave me a quote for the tooling and a minimum run that send me into depression.
I had a company that was local (within 200 miles) that is already one of my approved suppliers. They said they could build the tool for a reasonable price. I paid for the tooling cost and had them do a minimum run of the supports. I didn't want to invest too much if it wasn't going to work out. I had problems with a supplier in Houston in the supports and didn't want to duplicate the same problem.
So I received the supports and they were spot on. I left the mounting holes out because they can be matched drilled to the spar and because I can according to the process specs.
The 902010-501 was the original design. The -504 was the later design that had the collar staked into the inboard side of the support as to not be knocked out by the aileron torque tube. The -504 is the better design and is safer. The only problem with the -504 is that sometimes there is not quite enough room between the support and the aileron, even with out the spacers. The 901010-901 is the same as the 902010-504 but without the mounting holes. So if there is there is not enough room for the -504, then the holes can be located in the -901 where it will fit the assembly. I have a couple left from the first production run and have another 50 on order.
I apologize for not keeping everybody in the loop, but in this business, disappointments come more frequently than good news. But this is good news. Good news is that they are now available and at a lesser cost than before even with the tooling cost amortized in.
Garner
[quote][b]
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ronmillmancpa(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:33 pm Post subject: aileron bracket |
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Hi Garner,
What are the chances of saving the remaining tooling
for the Tigers?
If so, how muchwould the owners sell it for?
Do you want investors?
Regards, Ron Millman, CPA
From: garnerrice(at)hotmail.com
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: TeamGrumman-List: aileron bracket
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:02:50 -0600
Questions on the 901010-501 and 902010-504 outboard aileron brackets.
The company that was supplying them before was the same that was supplying them to Tiger Aircraft. For reason the tooling was destroyed after Tiger ceased production. I drove to Wichita Kansas on the way to AYA Oshkosh, to look over the remaining tooling and with the hopes that the tooling was still there. They still had some tooling, but nothing to make the aileron bracket. Then I went to another company in Wichita. They showed me quite a bit of Tiger tooling, but no joy. They did ask me if I was interested in paying the storage for the tools. The first company said they could remake the tool. After several months they gave me a quote for the tooling and a minimum run that send me into depression.
I had a company that was local (within 200 miles) that is already one of my approved suppliers. They said they could build the tool for a reasonable price. I paid for the tooling cost and had them do a minimum run of the supports. I didn't want to invest too much if it wasn't going to work out. I had problems with a supplier in Houston in the supports and didn't want to duplicate the same problem.
So I received the supports and they were spot on. I left the mounting holes out because they can be matched drilled to the spar and because I can according to the process specs.
The 902010-501 was the original design. The -504 was the later design that had the collar staked into the inboard side of the support as to not be knocked out by the aileron torque tube. The -504 is the better design and is safer. The only problem with the -504 is that sometimes there is not quite enough room between the support and the aileron, even with out the spacers. The 901010-901 is the same as the 902010-504 but without the mounting holes. So if there is there is not enough room for the -504, then the holes can be located in the -901 where it will fit the assembly. I have a couple left from the first production run and have another 50 on order.
I apologize for not keeping everybody in the loop, but in this business, disappointments come more frequently than good news. But this is good news. Good news is that they are now available and at a lesser cost than before even with the tooling cost amortized in.
Garner
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