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TR4 cowling.

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fredorosa(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:25 am Post subject: TR4 cowling.

Mark or someone ,  is there a cowling out there for sale? Desperate for a cowling.

Al rosa

 



Sent from my iPhone

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:49 am Post subject: TR4 cowling.

Which cowl are you looking for?  There was the original for the lycoming 360 and then super cruiser cowl for the continental 360. 



Scott



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:23 AM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Mark or someone ,  is there a cowling out there for sale? Desperate for a cowling.

 Al rosa

 

 

 Sent from my iPhone

fredorosa(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:13 am Post subject: TR4 cowling.

I need a standard 360 lyc cowl. 

Sent from my iPhone

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:47 PM, Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 Which cowl are you looking for?  There was the original for the lycoming 360 and then super cruiser cowl for the continental 360. 

 Scott

> On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:23 AM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Mark or someone ,  is there a cowling out there for sale? Desperate for a cowling.

> Al rosa

> 

> 

> Sent from my iPhone

galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:09 pm Post subject: TR4 cowling.

Al, where are you located?

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  [quote]--> KIS-List message posted by: Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)>

   

 Mark or someone ,  is there a cowling out there for sale? Desperate for a cowling.

 Al rosa

 

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 ===========

 rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

fredorosa(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:47 pm Post subject: TR4 cowling.

Near the Venice FL municipal airport. 



Sent from my iPhone



On Mar 19, 2014, at 6:05 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Al, where are you located?

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		  --> KIS-List message posted by: Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)>

   

 Mark or someone ,  is there a cowling out there for sale? Desperate for a cowling.

 Al rosa

 

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 ===========

 rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 

	


[b]

galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:31 am Post subject: TR4 cowling.

I am in St Augustine and I have a Lycoming O-360 in my airplane. Maybe we can get together and make a mold out of my cowl.



On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 7:45 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  [quote]Near the Venice FL municipal airport. 



Sent from my iPhone



On Mar 19, 2014, at 6:05 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  

 	  Quote: 	
		  Al, where are you located?



On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

    

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> KIS-List message posted by: Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)>

     

 Mark or someone ,  is there a cowling out there for sale? Desperate for a cowling.

 Al rosa

 

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 



 ===========

 rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 

	






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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



	


[b]

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:37 am Post subject: TR4 cowling.

Hi Al,



Scott and I have both a Lycoming 360 cowl in carbon fiber and a Continental 6 cylinder cowl in fiberglass.  The problem is we do not know for sure what one we will be using until we get an engine and do a trial fit.  This is 6 to 12 months away.  What is your time frame?  FYI, these cowls are Camarillo, CA.



Mark



--

fredorosa(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:39 am Post subject: TR4 cowling.

Actually the time frame and location would be ideal.   I may be trading my incomplete TR4 for a flying TR1.  The party      SIDDARTHA BRAVO  



is in CA and he was concerned that finding a cowling might be impossible.  At least now I can assure him that getting one is possible.     



On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>

      

 Hi Al,

 

 Scott and I have both a Lycoming 360 cowl in carbon fiber and a Continental 6 cylinder cowl in fiberglass.  The problem is we do not know for sure what one we will be using until we get an engine and do a trial fit.  This is 6 to 12 months away.  What is your time frame?  FYI, these cowls are Camarillo, CA.

      

 Mark

 

 --

Robert Reed

Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:52 am Post subject: TR4 cowling.

Considering the fact that obtaining parts in the future may be entirely upto the current builders / flyers it would be great if we could get some molds made off of those parts before you start any modifications and trimming.  This would be true for the wing tips as well.  Those are probably the most vulnerable parts that would ever need replacement.  Would that be a possibility?

  

 Bob Reed

 



    

From: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 9:36 AM

Subject: Re: TR4 cowling.



 

--> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>



Hi Al,



Scott and I have both a Lycoming 360 cowl in carbon fiber and a Continental 6 cylinder cowl in fiberglass.  The problem is we do not know for sure what one we will be using until we get an engine and do a trial fit.  This is 6 to 12 months away.  What is your time frame?  FYI, these cowls are Camarillo, CA.



Mark



--

jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglo
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:36 am Post subject: TR4 cowling.

Mark,

I wonder what happened with your carbon KIS Cruiser . Have you managed to put that plane together?

Jerzy

        From: Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net>

 To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:51 AM

 Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR4 cowling.

Considering the fact that obtaining parts  in the future may be entirely upto the current builders / flyers it would be great if we could get some molds made off of those parts before you start any modifications and trimming.  This would be true for the wing tips as well.  Those are probably the most vulnerable parts that would ever need replacement.  Would that be a possibility?

 Bob Reed

From: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 9:36 AM

Subject: Re: TR4 cowling.

--> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>

Hi Al,

Scott and I have both a Lycoming 360 cowl in carbon fiber and a Continental 6 cylinder cowl in fiberglass.  The problem is we do not know for sure what one we will be using until we get an engine and do a trial fit.  This is 6 to 12 months away.  What is your time frame?  FYI, these cowls are Camarillo, CA.

Mark

--

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:28 pm Post subject: TR4 cowling.

Scott and I are now partners in it and he is putting it together in CA.  The plan is to put a modified 300+ hp Lycoming IO-540 in it.

--

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:40 pm Post subject: TR4 cowling.

Actually taking molds off the parts is not so easy.  The parts do not have a smooth finish so you would need to fill and paint them and this makes assembly a little more difficult.  Also the parts are not as rigid as the final assembled group. You also still need to make the flanges to the molds.  Mold making is also a lot work and unless if you can sell at least few parts it is not worth the effort and cost.



That being said maybe Mark Trickle is going to make molds for the TR-1 and some parts for the Volato 400 may fit on the TR-4.  One off parts are also not all that hard to make if there is no other choice.  For example Scott made his own wingtips on his TR1 and cut the wing ribs from flat stock on the TR4 Blackbird.



Mark



--

jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglo
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:42 pm Post subject: TR4 cowling.

Mark,

That would move  the center of gravity quite a bit forward.

My plane has a Franklin engine and it is nose heavy.

Does that mean that you will move the wings and the landing gear forward too

or will you simply put a large piece of lead into the tail?

Jerzy

         From: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 5:28 PM

 Subject: Re: TR4 cowling.

  

 

--> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>

Scott and I are now partners in it and he is putting it together in CA.  The plan is to put a modified 300+ hp Lycoming IO-540 in it.

--

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:59 pm Post subject: TR4 cowling.

We have not started on the fuselage yet, but the plan is to move the wing 3-4 inches foward to compensate for engine weight and angle the main gear forward to put the wheels in the right place.   I want a taildragger which would help with the nose heaviness and main wheel placement, but the plan is a tri gear which will work.

Scott



On Mar 20, 2014, at 3:41 PM, jerzy krasinski <jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net (jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

[quote]Mark,

That would move  the center of gravity quite a bit forward.

My plane has a Franklin engine and it is nose heavy.

Does that mean that you will move the wings and the landing gear forward too

or will you simply put a large piece of lead into the tail?

Jerzy

         From: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 5:28 PM

 Subject: Re: TR4 cowling.

  

 

--> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>

Scott and I are now partners in it and he is putting it together in CA.  The plan is to put a modified 300+ hp Lycoming IO-540 in it.

--

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:03 pm Post subject: TR4 cowling.

Yes, the wing and landing gear are moved forward about 4 inches.  Some provisions for this were actually done when I made the parts.



--

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:08 pm Post subject: TR4 cowling.

Making formal molds would be a lot of work, but I would just cover an existing unpainted cowl with aluminum tape, wax it, and layup right onto it.  Go one ply at a time and drape the dry cloth on the part and wet it out on the part so you dont get air bubbles.  I would use 3 plies overall and a couple extra plies around the edges.  The part would be slightly oversized but the part could be fitted with little or no extra work.   I would lay down a layer of good low tack masking tape under the aluminum tape if the base part were painted and not leave it on the part longer than a week or so.



Scott



[quote] On Mar 20, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 Actually taking molds off the parts is not so easy.  The parts do not have a smooth finish so you would need to fill and paint them and this makes assembly a little more difficult.  Also the parts are not as rigid as the final assembled group. You also still need to make the flanges to the molds.  Mold making is also a lot work and unless if you can sell at least few parts it is not worth the effort and cost.

 

 That being said maybe Mark Trickle is going to make molds for the TR-1 and some parts for the Volato 400 may fit on the TR-4.  One off parts are also not all that hard to make if there is no other choice.  For example Scott made his own wingtips on his TR1 and cut the wing ribs from flat stock on the TR4 Blackbird.

 

 Mark

 

 --

Robert Reed

Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:08 pm Post subject: TR4 cowling.

I wonder if you could use a vinal-wrap to achieve the smooth finish without all the filling and painting?  

  

 It was just a thought (more like a hope).

  

 Bob

 



    

From: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 5:40 PM

Subject: Re: TR4 cowling.



 

--> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>



Actually taking molds off the parts is not so easy.  The parts do not have a smooth finish so you would need to fill and paint them and this makes assembly a little more difficult.  Also the parts are not as rigid as the final assembled group. You also still need to make the flanges to the molds.  Mold making is also a lot work and unless if you can sell at least few parts it is not worth the effort and cost.



That being said maybe Mark Trickle is going to make molds for the TR-1 and some parts for the Volato 400 may fit on the TR-4.  One off parts are also not all that hard to make if there is no other choice.  For example Scott made his own wingtips on his TR1 and cut the wing ribs from flat stock on the TR4  Blackbird.



Mark



--

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:54 am Post subject: TR4 cowling.

I have used many things to cover parts/temp molds/plugs to be able to pull of molds and/or parts.  Some include packing tape, plastic film, stretch-a-lon and Mylar film.  The Mylar film is the only one that actually works to provide a mold like surface but can only be used for simple curves.



The others do work but then your mold or part just needs the finishing work that you could have just done on the original part in the first place.  Most of the time it is more simple and less work to just finish the nice convex surface of the original part/plug once and then the mold is good and future parts are good.  Crappy molds make crappy parts that need more finishing work for each part.  Not that crappy molds are not useful for one offs and when you have no other choice.



The main idea I failed to get across is just take the molds off of a nicely finished aircraft.  This is less work and produces better results than trying to take it off the parts.  Of course this will not work with internal parts but many can be made from flat panel anyway.  Some like the spar can just be made from simple wood forms.



Adding joggles for seams is also easy.  In fact some of the joggles on Rich's original molds were just added to the molds.  In all cases flanges will need to be added.



Mark



--

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