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How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist
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Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:48 am Post subject: Re: How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist

I'd say you're both right, in some circumstances.(!)

If you're talking about the structure (tailcone, spars, etc) then the ideal physics analysis is very good. At 45 degrees, 71% (actually one over the square root of two) of the force is vertical, and an equal amount is horizontal.

But if you're talking about pulling out the threads, it is more complicated. The horizontal force will cause the bolt to pivot slightly, "locking" the bottom and top of the bolt deeper into the threads, where they are thicker, and thus have a lot more strength in tension. To visualize this, imagine that the tail had been tapped oversize, so the threads of the bolt just barely grabbed.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Rocketman1988

Joined: 21 Jun 2012
Posts: 63

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist

Agreed.  It is all just academic anyway because that tie down is threaded for a 3/8" bolt and unless you really messed up tapping the hole, 250 lbs is never going to pull those threads out...

40555

Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 13

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:25 am Post subject: How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist

Hi All'I plan on reducing the load on the tie down by adding about 80 lbs in the baggage compartment. I also was thinking of 40 lbs on either side of the vertical stabilizer.Â 

Thoughts?

I'm getting closer to the finish line!

Craig Rufi

On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>

 

 I'd say you're both right, in some circumstances.(!)

 If you're talking about the structure (tailcone, spars, etc) then the ideal physics analysis is very good. At 45 degrees, 71% (actually one over the square root of two) of the force is vertical, and an equal amount is horizontal.

 But if you're talking about pulling out the threads, it is more complicated. The horizontal force will cause the bolt to pivot slightly, "locking" the bottom and top of the bolt deeper into the threads, where they are thicker, and thus have a lot more strength in tension. To visualize this, imagine that the tail had been tapped oversize, so the threads of the bolt just barely grabbed.

 

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439382#439382

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

woxofswa

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:41 am Post subject: Re: How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist

>>Hi All'I plan on reducing the load on the tie down by adding about 80 lbs in the baggage compartment. I also was thinking of 40 lbs on either side of the vertical stabilizer.<<



In my opinion it is a lot of extra effort when it is quick, easy, and convenient to jack it up from just behind the firewall.  You can maneuver the assembly, and control the lift action seated upon the same stool in the same position. 



Unless your donuts have compressed EXACTLY the same amount as the thickness of the doubler you are going to have to make minute adjustments to get the bolt to slide in easily.  In my case I had to ease the wheel back down to the floor to get just a few pounds of pressure and viola, the bolt slid right in.  I was able to have one hand on the jack release and the other inserting the bolt.  You can't do that from the back.

_________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014

Dave Saylor

Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Posts: 210
Location: GILROY, CA

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:00 am Post subject: How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist

I use bags of water softener salt to weight the tail and other things.Â  The plastic 40# bags are tough, and convenient.Â  Find the brand with built in handles.Â  Use some care to make sure they don't slide off when the angle changes, and of course make sure they pick up the structure of the stab.Â  You'll be fine.



They belt in to the seats pretty well too when you do gross weight testing.Â  We would duct tape several together to make them body-size.Â  Then, make REALLY sure it's well secured so that Sal doesn't slump forward on the controls...

--Dave



On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:23 AM, Craig Rufi <craigr60(at)gmail.com (craigr60(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Hi All'I plan on reducing the load on the tie down by adding about 80 lbs in the baggage compartment. I also was thinking of 40 lbs on either side of the vertical stabilizer.Â 

Thoughts?

I'm getting closer to the finish line!

Craig Rufi

On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>

 

 I'd say you're both right, in some circumstances.(!)

 If you're talking about the structure (tailcone, spars, etc) then the ideal physics analysis is very good. At 45 degrees, 71% (actually one over the square root of two) of the force is vertical, and an equal amount is horizontal.

 But if you're talking about pulling out the threads, it is more complicated. The horizontal force will cause the bolt to pivot slightly, "locking" the bottom and top of the bolt deeper into the threads, where they are thicker, and thus have a lot more strength in tension. To visualize this, imagine that the tail had been tapped oversize, so the threads of the bolt just barely grabbed.

 

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439382#439382

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

_________________
--Dave
KWVI

Dave Saylor

Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Posts: 210
Location: GILROY, CA

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:03 am Post subject: How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist

I use bags of water softener salt to weight the tail and other things.Â  The plastic 40# bags are tough, and convenient.Â  Find the brand with built in handles.Â  Use some care to make sure they don't slide off when the angle changes, and of course make sure they pick up the structure of the stab.Â  You'll be fine.



They belt in to the seats pretty well too when you do gross weight testing.Â  We would duct tape several together to make them body-size.Â  Then, make REALLY sure it's well secured so that Sal doesn't slump forward on the controls...

--Dave

On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:23 AM, Craig Rufi <craigr60(at)gmail.com (craigr60(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Hi All'I plan on reducing the load on the tie down by adding about 80 lbs in the baggage compartment. I also was thinking of 40 lbs on either side of the vertical stabilizer.Â 

Thoughts?

I'm getting closer to the finish line!

Craig Rufi

On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>

 

 I'd say you're both right, in some circumstances.(!)

 If you're talking about the structure (tailcone, spars, etc) then the ideal physics analysis is very good. At 45 degrees, 71% (actually one over the square root of two) of the force is vertical, and an equal amount is horizontal.

 But if you're talking about pulling out the threads, it is more complicated. The horizontal force will cause the bolt to pivot slightly, "locking" the bottom and top of the bolt deeper into the threads, where they are thicker, and thus have a lot more strength in tension. To visualize this, imagine that the tail had been tapped oversize, so the threads of the bolt just barely grabbed.

 

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439382#439382

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

_________________
--Dave
KWVI

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:45 am Post subject: How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist

I would skip it on the stabilizer.  Too much chance of bending thin skins and it would be easier for it to fall off and lose that weight.  Just throw it in the baggage area and you'll be fine.

Tim





On Mar 15, 2015, at 9:23 AM, Craig Rufi <craigr60(at)gmail.com (craigr60(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Hi All'I plan on reducing the load on the tie down by adding about 80 lbs in the baggage compartment. I also was thinking of 40 lbs on either side of the vertical stabilizer. 

Thoughts?

I'm getting closer to the finish line!

Craig Rufi

On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>

 

 I'd say you're both right, in some circumstances.(!)

 If you're talking about the structure (tailcone, spars, etc) then the ideal physics analysis is very good. At 45 degrees, 71% (actually one over the square root of two) of the force is vertical, and an equal amount is horizontal.

 But if you're talking about pulling out the threads, it is more complicated. The horizontal force will cause the bolt to pivot slightly, "locking" the bottom and top of the bolt deeper into the threads, where they are thicker, and thus have a lot more strength in tension. To visualize this, imagine that the tail had been tapped oversize, so the threads of the bolt just barely grabbed.

 

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439382#439382

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

//forums.matronics.com

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



	


[b]

40555

Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 13

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:13 am Post subject: How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist

Thanks Dave,When you say,"pick up the structure of the stabilizer" I'm taking that to mean close to the vertical stabilizer, and balanced on both sides. There the ribs are closer together and a stronger surface for the bags to rest on.

My pool also needs a little more salt too:-))

On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:57 AM, David Saylor <saylor.dave(at)gmail.com (saylor.dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]I use bags of water softener salt to weight the tail and other things.Â  The plastic 40# bags are tough, and convenient.Â  Find the brand with built in handles.Â  Use some care to make sure they don't slide off when the angle changes, and of course make sure they pick up the structure of the stab.Â  You'll be fine.



They belt in to the seats pretty well too when you do gross weight testing.Â  We would duct tape several together to make them body-size.Â  Then, make REALLY sure it's well secured so that Sal doesn't slump forward on the controls...

--Dave



On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:23 AM, Craig Rufi <craigr60(at)gmail.com (craigr60(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi All'I plan on reducing the load on the tie down by adding about 80 lbs in the baggage compartment. I also was thinking of 40 lbs on either side of the vertical stabilizer.Â 

Thoughts?

I'm getting closer to the finish line!

Craig Rufi

On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>

 

 I'd say you're both right, in some circumstances.(!)

 If you're talking about the structure (tailcone, spars, etc) then the ideal physics analysis is very good. At 45 degrees, 71% (actually one over the square root of two) of the force is vertical, and an equal amount is horizontal.

 But if you're talking about pulling out the threads, it is more complicated. The horizontal force will cause the bolt to pivot slightly, "locking" the bottom and top of the bolt deeper into the threads, where they are thicker, and thus have a lot more strength in tension. To visualize this, imagine that the tail had been tapped oversize, so the threads of the bolt just barely grabbed.

 

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439382#439382

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

Dave Saylor

Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Posts: 210
Location: GILROY, CA

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:24 am Post subject: How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist

Kind of.Â  I mean make sure you have contact with the spars and as many ribs as possible.Â  And yes, as close to the root as you can. --D



On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Craig Rufi <craigr60(at)gmail.com (craigr60(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Thanks Dave,When you say,"pick up the structure of the stabilizer" I'm taking that to mean close to the vertical stabilizer, and balanced on both sides. There the ribs are closer together and a stronger surface for the bags to rest on.

My pool also needs a little more salt too:-))

On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:57 AM, David Saylor <saylor.dave(at)gmail.com (saylor.dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I use bags of water softener salt to weight the tail and other things.Â  The plastic 40# bags are tough, and convenient.Â  Find the brand with built in handles.Â  Use some care to make sure they don't slide off when the angle changes, and of course make sure they pick up the structure of the stab.Â  You'll be fine.



They belt in to the seats pretty well too when you do gross weight testing.Â  We would duct tape several together to make them body-size.Â  Then, make REALLY sure it's well secured so that Sal doesn't slump forward on the controls...

--Dave



On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:23 AM, Craig Rufi <craigr60(at)gmail.com (craigr60(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi All'I plan on reducing the load on the tie down by adding about 80 lbs in the baggage compartment. I also was thinking of 40 lbs on either side of the vertical stabilizer.Â 

Thoughts?

I'm getting closer to the finish line!

Craig Rufi

On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>

 

 I'd say you're both right, in some circumstances.(!)

 If you're talking about the structure (tailcone, spars, etc) then the ideal physics analysis is very good. At 45 degrees, 71% (actually one over the square root of two) of the force is vertical, and an equal amount is horizontal.

 But if you're talking about pulling out the threads, it is more complicated. The horizontal force will cause the bolt to pivot slightly, "locking" the bottom and top of the bolt deeper into the threads, where they are thicker, and thus have a lot more strength in tension. To visualize this, imagine that the tail had been tapped oversize, so the threads of the bolt just barely grabbed.

 

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439382#439382

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

_________________
--Dave
KWVI

40555

Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 13

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:33 am Post subject: How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist

We are on the same page!Thanks,

Craig Rufi

On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 11:21 AM, David Saylor <saylor.dave(at)gmail.com (saylor.dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Kind of.Â  I mean make sure you have contact with the spars and as many ribs as possible.Â  And yes, as close to the root as you can. --D



On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Craig Rufi <craigr60(at)gmail.com (craigr60(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks Dave,When you say,"pick up the structure of the stabilizer" I'm taking that to mean close to the vertical stabilizer, and balanced on both sides. There the ribs are closer together and a stronger surface for the bags to rest on.

My pool also needs a little more salt too:-))

On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:57 AM, David Saylor <saylor.dave(at)gmail.com (saylor.dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I use bags of water softener salt to weight the tail and other things.Â  The plastic 40# bags are tough, and convenient.Â  Find the brand with built in handles.Â  Use some care to make sure they don't slide off when the angle changes, and of course make sure they pick up the structure of the stab.Â  You'll be fine.



They belt in to the seats pretty well too when you do gross weight testing.Â  We would duct tape several together to make them body-size.Â  Then, make REALLY sure it's well secured so that Sal doesn't slump forward on the controls...

--Dave



On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:23 AM, Craig Rufi <craigr60(at)gmail.com (craigr60(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi All'I plan on reducing the load on the tie down by adding about 80 lbs in the baggage compartment. I also was thinking of 40 lbs on either side of the vertical stabilizer.Â 

Thoughts?

I'm getting closer to the finish line!

Craig Rufi

On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>

 

 I'd say you're both right, in some circumstances.(!)

 If you're talking about the structure (tailcone, spars, etc) then the ideal physics analysis is very good. At 45 degrees, 71% (actually one over the square root of two) of the force is vertical, and an equal amount is horizontal.

 But if you're talking about pulling out the threads, it is more complicated. The horizontal force will cause the bolt to pivot slightly, "locking" the bottom and top of the bolt deeper into the threads, where they are thicker, and thus have a lot more strength in tension. To visualize this, imagine that the tail had been tapped oversize, so the threads of the bolt just barely grabbed.

 

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439382#439382

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

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[b]

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:05 am Post subject: How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist

Be very careful with bags of salt. They are typically abused in their 

delivery to retail store shelves, and frequently have small tears that 

let salt out. Extremely corrosive to your aircraft. It doesn't take but 

a bit of powder out of one of those bags. And they are heavy enough it 

doesn't take much abrasion to put a small, barely noticeable hole in a 

bag. I've seen corrosion in car trunks and pickup beds from that.

I agree with Tim, either put it all in baggage compartment, or put some 

plywood or similar on stabilizer to spread load and prevent damage there.

Sand bags or collapsible water jugs are preferable.



On 3/15/2015 11:30 AM, Craig Rufi wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   We are on the same page!

 Thanks,

 Craig Rufi



 On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 11:21 AM, David Saylor <saylor.dave(at)gmail.com 

 <mailto:saylor.dave(at)gmail.com>> wrote:



     Kind of.  I mean make sure you have contact with the spars and as

     many ribs as possible.  And yes, as close to the root as you can. --D



     On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Craig Rufi <craigr60(at)gmail.com

     <mailto:craigr60(at)gmail.com>> wrote:



         Thanks Dave,

         When you say,"pick up the structure of the stabilizer" I'm

         taking that to mean close to the vertical stabilizer, and

         balanced on both sides. There the ribs are closer together and

         a stronger surface for the bags to rest on.



         My pool also needs a little more salt too:-))



         On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:57 AM, David Saylor

         <saylor.dave(at)gmail.com <mailto:saylor.dave(at)gmail.com>> wrote:



             I use bags of water softener salt to weight the tail and

             other things. The plastic 40# bags are tough, and

             convenient.  Find the brand with built in handles.  Use

             some care to make sure they don't slide off when the angle

             changes, and of course make sure they pick up the

             structure of the stab.  You'll be fine.



             They belt in to the seats pretty well too when you do

             gross weight testing. We would duct tape several together

             to make them body-size.  Then, make REALLY sure it's well

             secured so that Sal doesn't slump forward on the controls...



             --Dave



             On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:23 AM, Craig Rufi

             <craigr60(at)gmail.com <mailto:craigr60(at)gmail.com>> wrote:



                 Hi All'

                 I plan on reducing the load on the tie down by adding

                 about 80 lbs in the baggage compartment. I also was

                 thinking of 40 lbs on either side of the vertical

                 stabilizer.

                 Thoughts?

                 I'm getting closer to the finish line!



                 Craig Rufi



                 On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Bob Turner

                 <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu

                 <mailto:bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>> wrote:



                     

                     <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu

                     <mailto:bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>>



                     I'd say you're both right, in some circumstances.(!)

                     If you're talking about the structure (tailcone,

                     spars, etc) then the ideal physics analysis is

                     very good. At 45 degrees, 71% (actually one over

                     the square root of two) of the force is vertical,

                     and an equal amount is horizontal.

                     But if you're talking about pulling out the

                     threads, it is more complicated. The horizontal

                     force will cause the bolt to pivot slightly,

                     "locking" the bottom and top of the bolt deeper

                     into the threads, where they are thicker, and thus

                     have a lot more strength in tension. To visualize

                     this, imagine that the tail had been tapped

                     oversize, so the threads of the bolt just barely

                     grabbed.



                     --------

                     Bob Turner

                     RV-10 QB





                     Read this topic online here:



                     http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439382#439382



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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:35 am Post subject: Re: How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist

 	  woxofswa wrote: 	
		  >>

Unless your donuts have compressed EXACTLY the same amount as the thickness of the doubler you are going to have to make minute adjustments to get the bolt to slide in easily.  In my case I had to ease the wheel back down to the floor to get just a few pounds of pressure and viola, the bolt slid right in.  I was able to have one hand on the jack release and the other inserting the bolt.  You can't do that from the back. 	


My thinking is that the donuts will compress some with time, so I want a substantial pre-load on them now, not just a few pounds.

I un-jacked the plane, then put my shoulder under the tail and picked it up (maybe 80 lbs there?) and slid a stand under the tail, then added one more (2 total) washer and I could just get the bolt in.

Was this overkill? Or too much pre-load?

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

woxofswa

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist

That is a good question and I don't know the answer.  I know that the goal is "no slop" and that you are limited to a maximum of three washers.  It seems possible that the more pre-load, the more the donuts compress over time, but I'm not sure.  I would bet that compression memory is a combination of both time and pressure with a little pressure over a long time having the same effect as high pressure for short bursts.  It also seems to me that the act of compression itself is what absorbs energy and therefore a higher pre-compression could mean less potential energy absorption capability in the system.  I would rather dissipate energy through the donuts than through the engine mount and/or firewall.



I have heard that they are expensive to replace.



 	  Bob Turner wrote: 	
		   	  woxofswa wrote: 	
		  >>

Unless your donuts have compressed EXACTLY the same amount as the thickness of the doubler you are going to have to make minute adjustments to get the bolt to slide in easily.  In my case I had to ease the wheel back down to the floor to get just a few pounds of pressure and viola, the bolt slid right in.  I was able to have one hand on the jack release and the other inserting the bolt.  You can't do that from the back. 	


My thinking is that the donuts will compress some with time, so I want a substantial pre-load on them now, not just a few pounds.

I un-jacked the plane, then put my shoulder under the tail and picked it up (maybe 80 lbs there?) and slid a stand under the tail, then added one more (2 total) washer and I could just get the bolt in.

Was this overkill? Or too much pre-load?

_________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014

rv10rob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:41 am Post subject: How to lift the nose wheel without an engine hoist

Tim has it right--there's no need to mess around with putting stuff on the HS.Â  Put a bunch of heavy stuff in the baggage compartment, and the tail gets really light.



On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 12:02 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>

 

 Be very careful with bags of salt. They are typically abused in their delivery to retail store shelves, and frequently have small tears that let salt out. Extremely corrosive to your aircraft. It doesn't take but a bit of powder out of one of those bags. And they are heavy enough it doesn't take much abrasion to put a small, barely noticeable hole in a bag. I've seen corrosion in car trunks and pickup beds from that.

 I agree with Tim, either put it all in baggage compartment, or put some plywood or similar on stabilizer to spread load and prevent damage there.

 Sand bags or collapsible water jugs are preferable.

 

 On 3/15/2015 11:30 AM, Craig Rufi wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   We are on the same page!

 Thanks,

 Craig Rufi

 

 On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 11:21 AM, David Saylor <saylor.dave(at)gmail.com (saylor.dave(at)gmail.com) <mailto:saylor.dave(at)gmail.com (saylor.dave(at)gmail.com)>> wrote:

 

 Â  Â  Kind of.Â  I mean make sure you have contact with the spars and as

 Â  Â  many ribs as possible.Â  And yes, as close to the root as you can. --D

 

 Â  Â  On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Craig Rufi <craigr60(at)gmail.com (craigr60(at)gmail.com)

 Â  Â  <mailto:craigr60(at)gmail.com (craigr60(at)gmail.com)>> wrote:

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Thanks Dave,

 Â  Â  Â  Â  When you say,"pick up the structure of the stabilizer" I'm

 Â  Â  Â  Â  taking that to mean close to the vertical stabilizer, and

 Â  Â  Â  Â  balanced on both sides. There the ribs are closer together and

 Â  Â  Â  Â  a stronger surface for the bags to rest on.

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  My pool also needs a little more salt too:-))

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:57 AM, David Saylor

 Â  Â  Â  Â  <saylor.dave(at)gmail.com (saylor.dave(at)gmail.com) <mailto:saylor.dave(at)gmail.com (saylor.dave(at)gmail.com)>> wrote:

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  I use bags of water softener salt to weight the tail and

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  other things. The plastic 40# bags are tough, and

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  convenient.Â  Find the brand with built in handles.Â  Use

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  some care to make sure they don't slide off when the angle

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  changes, and of course make sure they pick up the

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  structure of the stab.Â  You'll be fine.

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  They belt in to the seats pretty well too when you do

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  gross weight testing. We would duct tape several together

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  to make them body-size.Â  Then, make REALLY sure it's well

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  secured so that Sal doesn't slump forward on the controls...

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  --Dave

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:23 AM, Craig Rufi

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  <craigr60(at)gmail.com (craigr60(at)gmail.com) <mailto:craigr60(at)gmail.com (craigr60(at)gmail.com)>> wrote:

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Hi All'

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  I plan on reducing the load on the tie down by adding

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  about 80 lbs in the baggage compartment. I also was

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  thinking of 40 lbs on either side of the vertical

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  stabilizer.

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Thoughts?

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  I'm getting closer to the finish line!

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Craig Rufi

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Bob Turner

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  <mailto:bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>> wrote:

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner"

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  <mailto:bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>>

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  I'd say you're both right, in some circumstances.(!)

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  If you're talking about the structure (tailcone,

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  spars, etc) then the ideal physics analysis is

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  very good. At 45 degrees, 71% (actually one over

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  the square root of two) of the force is vertical,

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  and an equal amount is horizontal.

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  But if you're talking about pulling out the

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  threads, it is more complicated. The horizontal

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  force will cause the bolt to pivot slightly,

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  "locking" the bottom and top of the bolt deeper

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  into the threads, where they are thicker, and thus

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  have a lot more strength in tension. To visualize

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  this, imagine that the tail had been tapped

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  oversize, so the threads of the bolt just barely

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  grabbed.

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  --------

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Bob Turner

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Read this topic online here:

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439382#439382

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

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 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  *

 

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  tp://forums.matronics.comÂ  <http://forums.matronics.com>

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 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  *

 

 

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 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

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 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 

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-- 

Rob Kochman

RV-10 Flying since March 2011

 Woodinville, WA

 http://kochman.net/N819K



 

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