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Lord adhesive window installation question

 
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dan(at)syz.com
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:46 pm    Post subject: Lord adhesive window installation question Reply with quote

Hi everyone. I'm ready to attach the windows in my RV-10 and am looking for advice on those who have used the Lord 7545 A/E adhesive sold by Geoff at Aerosport Products. After reading lots of positive comments from here about it, I obtained a few tubes from him.

The plans call for installing the windows onto the doors when the doors are off and laying flat, presumably to allow gravity to help hold them in place while they are being cured. Of course, the rear windows can't be installed with that luxury, but they're smaller and lighter. And the windscreen rests largely on the nose while curing, so that should be less of an issue too.

But my question is, considering that Lord Adhesive is different than Vans' would have us use anyway, is it sticky enough that I could install the windows on the doors while the doors are closed and on the plane - in essentially the same orientation as the rear windows? The reason I ask isn't due to laziness Smile But instead, I'm one of the lucky ones whose doors ended up fitting quite well without a lot of work. And I figure that if the windows are attached to the doors while the doors are in their proper latched position, they can only help (slightly) to further stiffen the door in the proper position. The last thing I want to do is to fit the windows to the doors when the doors are on the floor, and then find that gravity warped things slightly while they were curing, and the doors no longer fit properly. It would seem to me that adhering the windows to the doors when the doors are in their closed position will help keep everything aligned properly, so long as the Lord adhesive is sticky enough before fully cured that it will hold the window tightly to the door and in place while it is curing.

Thanks!

Dan
---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213


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rleffler



Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:06 am    Post subject: Lord adhesive window installation question Reply with quote

The short answer is no. You need minimal pressure to hold the windows in place. If gravity causes any movement at all, you're going to have a major headache on your hands to resolve. I did my doors laying flat. On the rear windows I made fingers out of scrap aluminum to hold the pieces in place that were cleco'd to the cabin cover. You could do the same on the doors. The angle of the bend determines how much pressure is applied. You don't need much, just enough to keep things from moving.

Sent from my iPad

Quote:
On Apr 8, 2015, at 1:42 AM, Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com> wrote:



Hi everyone. I'm ready to attach the windows in my RV-10 and am looking for advice on those who have used the Lord 7545 A/E adhesive sold by Geoff at Aerosport Products. After reading lots of positive comments from here about it, I obtained a few tubes from him.

The plans call for installing the windows onto the doors when the doors are off and laying flat, presumably to allow gravity to help hold them in place while they are being cured. Of course, the rear windows can't be installed with that luxury, but they're smaller and lighter. And the windscreen rests largely on the nose while curing, so that should be less of an issue too.

But my question is, considering that Lord Adhesive is different than Vans' would have us use anyway, is it sticky enough that I could install the windows on the doors while the doors are closed and on the plane - in essentially the same orientation as the rear windows? The reason I ask isn't due to laziness Smile But instead, I'm one of the lucky ones whose doors ended up fitting quite well without a lot of work. And I figure that if the windows are attached to the doors while the doors are in their proper latched position, they can only help (slightly) to further stiffen the door in the proper position. The last thing I want to do is to fit the windows to the doors when the doors are on the floor, and then find that gravity warped things slightly while they were curing, and the doors no longer fit properly. It would seem to me that adhering the windows to the doors when the doors are in their closed position will help keep everything aligned properly, so long as the Lord!
adhesive is sticky enough before fully cured that it will hold the window tightly to the door and in place while it is curing.

Thanks!

Dan
---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213



====================================

====================================
====================================
====================================
Quote:




<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">


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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:23 am    Post subject: Lord adhesive window installation question Reply with quote

What Bob said.

Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Sent from my iPad

Quote:
On Apr 8, 2015, at 5:03 AM, Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> wrote:

The short answer is no. You need minimal pressure to hold the windows in place. If gravity causes any movement at all, you're going to have a major headache on your hands to resolve. I did my doors laying flat. On the rear windows I made fingers out of scrap aluminum to hold the pieces in place that were cleco'd to the cabin cover. You could do the same on the doors. The angle of the bend determines how much pressure is applied. You don't need much, just enough to keep things from moving.



<image1.jpeg>



Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 8, 2015, at 1:42 AM, Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi everyone. I'm ready to attach the windows in my RV-10 and am looking for advice on those who have used the Lord 7545 A/E adhesive sold by Geoff at Aerosport Products. After reading lots of positive comments from here about it, I obtained a few tubes from him.
>
> The plans call for installing the windows onto the doors when the doors are off and laying flat, presumably to allow gravity to help hold them in place while they are being cured. Of course, the rear windows can't be installed with that luxury, but they're smaller and lighter. And the windscreen rests largely on the nose while curing, so that should be less of an issue too.
>
> But my question is, considering that Lord Adhesive is different than Vans' would have us use anyway, is it sticky enough that I could install the windows on the doors while the doors are closed and on the plane - in essentially the same orientation as the rear windows? The reason I ask isn't due to laziness Smile But instead, I'm one of the lucky ones whose doors ended up fitting quite well without a lot of work. And I figure that if the windows are attached to the doors while the doors are in their proper latched position, they can only help (slightly) to further stiffen the door in the proper position. The last thing I want to do is to fit the windows to the doors when the doors are on the floor, and then find that gravity warped things slightly while they were curing, and the doors no longer fit properly. It would seem to me that adhering the windows to the doors when the doors are in their closed position will help keep everything aligned properly, so long as the Lord!
> adhesive is sticky enough before fully cured that it will hold the window tightly to the door and in place while it is curing.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Dan
> ---
> Dan Charrois
> President, Syzygy Research & Technology
> Phone: 780-961-2213
====================================
====================================
====================================
====================================

<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face=3D"courier new,courier">


</b></font></pre>


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flysrv10(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:07 am    Post subject: Lord adhesive window installation question Reply with quote

This is a little off topic but how are people repairing the hairline cracks that develop around the windows?

Looking for an easy fix and not too worried about the looks. I just don't want to lose a window in the air right now.

Thanks.

Do not archive.

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Apr 8, 2015, at 6:20 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> wrote:



What Bob said.

Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 8, 2015, at 5:03 AM, Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> wrote:
>
> The short answer is no. You need minimal pressure to hold the windows in place. If gravity causes any movement at all, you're going to have a major headache on your hands to resolve. I did my doors laying flat. On the rear windows I made fingers out of scrap aluminum to hold the pieces in place that were cleco'd to the cabin cover. You could do the same on the doors. The angle of the bend determines how much pressure is applied. You don't need much, just enough to keep things from moving.
>
>
>
> <image1.jpeg>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 8, 2015, at 1:42 AM, Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi everyone. I'm ready to attach the windows in my RV-10 and am looking for advice on those who have used the Lord 7545 A/E adhesive sold by Geoff at Aerosport Products. After reading lots of positive comments from here about it, I obtained a few tubes from him.
>>
>> The plans call for installing the windows onto the doors when the doors are off and laying flat, presumably to allow gravity to help hold them in place while they are being cured. Of course, the rear windows can't be installed with that luxury, but they're smaller and lighter. And the windscreen rests largely on the nose while curing, so that should be less of an issue too.
>>
>> But my question is, considering that Lord Adhesive is different than Vans' would have us use anyway, is it sticky enough that I could install the windows on the doors while the doors are closed and on the plane - in essentially the same orientation as the rear windows? The reason I ask isn't due to laziness Smile But instead, I'm one of the lucky ones whose doors ended up fitting quite well without a lot of work. And I figure that if the windows are attached to the doors while the doors are in their proper latched position, they can only help (slightly) to further stiffen the door in the proper position. The last thing I want to do is to fit the windows to the doors when the doors are on the floor, and then find that gravity warped things slightly while they were curing, and the doors no longer fit properly. It would seem to me that adhering the windows to the doors when the doors are in their closed position will help keep everything aligned properly, so long as the L!
ord!
>> adhesive is sticky enough before fully cured that it will hold the window tightly to the door and in place while it is curing.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Dan
>> ---
>> Dan Charrois
>> President, Syzygy Research & Technology
>> Phone: 780-961-2213
> ====================================
> ====================================
> ====================================
> ====================================
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face=3D"courier new,courier">
>
>
> </b></font></pre>







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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:37 am    Post subject: Lord adhesive window installation question Reply with quote

If you're not worried about looks, then let the cracks develop. It's not a window separation issue, just a dissimilar material issue.

Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Sent from my iPad

Quote:
On Apr 8, 2015, at 7:05 AM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> wrote:



This is a little off topic but how are people repairing the hairline cracks that develop around the windows?

Looking for an easy fix and not too worried about the looks. I just don't want to lose a window in the air right now.

Thanks.

Do not archive.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 8, 2015, at 6:20 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> What Bob said.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> 352-427-0285
> jesse(at)saintaviation.com
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 8, 2015, at 5:03 AM, Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> wrote:
>>
>> The short answer is no. You need minimal pressure to hold the windows in place. If gravity causes any movement at all, you're going to have a major headache on your hands to resolve. I did my doors laying flat. On the rear windows I made fingers out of scrap aluminum to hold the pieces in place that were cleco'd to the cabin cover. You could do the same on the doors. The angle of the bend determines how much pressure is applied. You don't need much, just enough to keep things from moving.
>>
>>
>>
>> <image1.jpeg>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Apr 8, 2015, at 1:42 AM, Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi everyone. I'm ready to attach the windows in my RV-10 and am looking for advice on those who have used the Lord 7545 A/E adhesive sold by Geoff at Aerosport Products. After reading lots of positive comments from here about it, I obtained a few tubes from him.
>>>
>>> The plans call for installing the windows onto the doors when the doors are off and laying flat, presumably to allow gravity to help hold them in place while they are being cured. Of course, the rear windows can't be installed with that luxury, but they're smaller and lighter. And the windscreen rests largely on the nose while curing, so that should be less of an issue too.
>>>
>>> But my question is, considering that Lord Adhesive is different than Vans' would have us use anyway, is it sticky enough that I could install the windows on the doors while the doors are closed and on the plane - in essentially the same orientation as the rear windows? The reason I ask isn't due to laziness Smile But instead, I'm one of the lucky ones whose doors ended up fitting quite well without a lot of work. And I figure that if the windows are attached to the doors while the doors are in their proper latched position, they can only help (slightly) to further stiffen the door in the proper position. The last thing I want to do is to fit the windows to the doors when the doors are on the floor, and then find that gravity warped things slightly while they were curing, and the doors no longer fit properly. It would seem to me that adhering the windows to the doors when the doors are in their closed position will help keep everything aligned properly, so long as the !
L!
> ord!
>>> adhesive is sticky enough before fully cured that it will hold the window tightly to the door and in place while it is curing.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Dan
>>> ---
>>> Dan Charrois
>>> President, Syzygy Research & Technology
>>> Phone: 780-961-2213
>> ====================================
>> ====================================
>> ====================================
>> ====================================
>>
>> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face=3D"courier new,courier">
>>
>>
>> </b></font></pre>







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flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:54 am    Post subject: Lord adhesive window installation question Reply with quote

I used the 7545 and clecoed through the window (made a 'plastic drill
bit,) into the flange instead of making clips. I did all the
windows/doors attached to the airplane .... a lot easier than chasing
the door across the bench. I ground a 'valley' around the window and
laid fiberglass tape across the edge of the window. Filled with
microbaloons and sanded. Unfortunately, I didn't crawl into the fuse to
trim the excess 7545. You need to do this! That stuff is terribly
hard. I'm still building so don't have any operational issues ...... Sad
Linn

On 4/8/2015 7:34 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
Quote:


If you're not worried about looks, then let the cracks develop. It's not a window separation issue, just a dissimilar material issue.

Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 8, 2015, at 7:05 AM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> This is a little off topic but how are people repairing the hairline cracks that develop around the windows?
>
> Looking for an easy fix and not too worried about the looks. I just don't want to lose a window in the air right now.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 8, 2015, at 6:20 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> What Bob said.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> 352-427-0285
>> jesse(at)saintaviation.com
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Apr 8, 2015, at 5:03 AM, Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The short answer is no. You need minimal pressure to hold the windows in place. If gravity causes any movement at all, you're going to have a major headache on your hands to resolve. I did my doors laying flat. On the rear windows I made fingers out of scrap aluminum to hold the pieces in place that were cleco'd to the cabin cover. You could do the same on the doors. The angle of the bend determines how much pressure is applied. You don't need much, just enough to keep things from moving.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <image1.jpeg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Apr 8, 2015, at 1:42 AM, Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone. I'm ready to attach the windows in my RV-10 and am looking for advice on those who have used the Lord 7545 A/E adhesive sold by Geoff at Aerosport Products. After reading lots of positive comments from here about it, I obtained a few tubes from him.
>>>>
>>>> The plans call for installing the windows onto the doors when the doors are off and laying flat, presumably to allow gravity to help hold them in place while they are being cured. Of course, the rear windows can't be installed with that luxury, but they're smaller and lighter. And the windscreen rests largely on the nose while curing, so that should be less of an issue too.
>>>>
>>>> But my question is, considering that Lord Adhesive is different than Vans' would have us use anyway, is it sticky enough that I could install the windows on the doors while the doors are closed and on the plane - in essentially the same orientation as the rear windows? The reason I ask isn't due to laziness Smile But instead, I'm one of the lucky ones whose doors ended up fitting quite well without a lot of work. And I figure that if the windows are attached to the doors while the doors are in their proper latched position, they can only help (slightly) to further stiffen the door in the proper position. The last thing I want to do is to fit the windows to the doors when the doors are on the floor, and then find that gravity warped things slightly while they were curing, and the doors no longer fit properly. It would seem to me that adhering the windows to the doors when the doors are in their closed position will help keep everything aligned properly, so long as the!
!
> L!
>> ord!
>>>> adhesive is sticky enough before fully cured that it will hold the window tightly to the door and in place while it is curing.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>> ---
>>>> Dan Charrois
>>>> President, Syzygy Research & Technology
>>>> Phone: 780-961-2213
>>> ====================================
>>> ====================================
>>> ====================================
>>> ====================================
>>>
>>> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face=3D"courier new,courier">
>>>
>>>
>>> </b></font></pre>
>
>



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rleffler



Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:04 am    Post subject: Lord adhesive window installation question Reply with quote

I used Lords adhesive and then glassed over the seams. It's been almost two years since painting and no cracks yet.

I know that didn't answer your question, but it may help the OP.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 8, 2015, at 7:05 AM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> wrote:



This is a little off topic but how are people repairing the hairline cracks that develop around the windows?

Looking for an easy fix and not too worried about the looks. I just don't want to lose a window in the air right now.

Thanks.

Do not archive.

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Apr 8, 2015, at 6:20 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> wrote:



What Bob said.

Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 8, 2015, at 5:03 AM, Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> wrote:
>
> The short answer is no. You need minimal pressure to hold the windows in place. If gravity causes any movement at all, you're going to have a major headache on your hands to resolve. I did my doors laying flat. On the rear windows I made fingers out of scrap aluminum to hold the pieces in place that were cleco'd to the cabin cover. You could do the same on the doors. The angle of the bend determines how much pressure is applied. You don't need much, just enough to keep things from moving.
>
>
>
> <image1.jpeg>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 8, 2015, at 1:42 AM, Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi everyone. I'm ready to attach the windows in my RV-10 and am looking for advice on those who have used the Lord 7545 A/E adhesive sold by Geoff at Aerosport Products. After reading lots of positive comments from here about it, I obtained a few tubes from him.
>>
>> The plans call for installing the windows onto the doors when the doors are off and laying flat, presumably to allow gravity to help hold them in place while they are being cured. Of course, the rear windows can't be installed with that luxury, but they're smaller and lighter. And the windscreen rests largely on the nose while curing, so that should be less of an issue too.
>>
>> But my question is, considering that Lord Adhesive is different than Vans' would have us use anyway, is it sticky enough that I could install the windows on the doors while the doors are closed and on the plane - in essentially the same orientation as the rear windows? The reason I ask isn't due to laziness Smile But instead, I'm one of the lucky ones whose doors ended up fitting quite well without a lot of work. And I figure that if the windows are attached to the doors while the doors are in their proper latched position, they can only help (slightly) to further stiffen the door in the proper position. The last thing I want to do is to fit the windows to the doors when the doors are on the floor, and then find that gravity warped things slightly while they were curing, and the doors no longer fit properly. It would seem to me that adhering the windows to the doors when the doors are in their closed position will help keep everything aligned properly, so long as the !
L!

Quote:
ord!
>> adhesive is sticky enough before fully cured that it will hold the window tightly to the door and in place while it is curing.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Dan
>> ---
>> Dan Charrois
>> President, Syzygy Research & Technology
>> Phone: 780-961-2213
> ====================================
> ====================================
> ====================================
> ====================================
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face=3D"courier new,courier">
>
>
> </b></font></pre>







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_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:05 am    Post subject: Lord adhesive window installation question Reply with quote

Can a layer of cloth be placed over the window/cabin top joint to hide the crack, or will the crack develop regardless?

I note that the Cirrus SR-20 has a thin bead of flexible sealant in the gap between the window and cabin top.

Enquiring minds need to know please as I'm up to this step too.

Warm regards

Patrick

Quote:
On 8 Apr 2015, at 21:04, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> wrote:



If you're not worried about looks, then let the cracks develop. It's not a window separation issue, just a dissimilar material issue.

Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 8, 2015, at 7:05 AM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> This is a little off topic but how are people repairing the hairline cracks that develop around the windows?
>
> Looking for an easy fix and not too worried about the looks. I just don't want to lose a window in the air right now.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 8, 2015, at 6:20 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> What Bob said.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> 352-427-0285
>> jesse(at)saintaviation.com
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Apr 8, 2015, at 5:03 AM, Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The short answer is no. You need minimal pressure to hold the windows in place. If gravity causes any movement at all, you're going to have a major headache on your hands to resolve. I did my doors laying flat. On the rear windows I made fingers out of scrap aluminum to hold the pieces in place that were cleco'd to the cabin cover. You could do the same on the doors. The angle of the bend determines how much pressure is applied. You don't need much, just enough to keep things from moving.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <image1.jpeg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Apr 8, 2015, at 1:42 AM, Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone. I'm ready to attach the windows in my RV-10 and am looking for advice on those who have used the Lord 7545 A/E adhesive sold by Geoff at Aerosport Products. After reading lots of positive comments from here about it, I obtained a few tubes from him.
>>>>
>>>> The plans call for installing the windows onto the doors when the doors are off and laying flat, presumably to allow gravity to help hold them in place while they are being cured. Of course, the rear windows can't be installed with that luxury, but they're smaller and lighter. And the windscreen rests largely on the nose while curing, so that should be less of an issue too.
>>>>
>>>> But my question is, considering that Lord Adhesive is different than Vans' would have us use anyway, is it sticky enough that I could install the windows on the doors while the doors are closed and on the plane - in essentially the same orientation as the rear windows? The reason I ask isn't due to laziness Smile But instead, I'm one of the lucky ones whose doors ended up fitting quite well without a lot of work. And I figure that if the windows are attached to the doors while the doors are in their proper latched position, they can only help (slightly) to further stiffen the door in the proper position. The last thing I want to do is to fit the windows to the doors when the doors are on the floor, and then find that gravity warped things slightly while they were curing, and the doors no longer fit properly. It would seem to me that adhering the windows to the doors when the doors are in their closed position will help keep everything aligned properly, so long as the!
!
> L!
>> ord!
>>>> adhesive is sticky enough before fully cured that it will hold the window tightly to the door and in place while it is curing.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>> ---
>>>> Dan Charrois
>>>> President, Syzygy Research & Technology
>>>> Phone: 780-961-2213
>>> ====================================
>>> ====================================
>>> ====================================
>>> ====================================
>>>
>>> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face=3D"courier new,courier">
>>>
>>>
>>> </b></font></pre>







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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:20 am    Post subject: Lord adhesive window installation question Reply with quote

Attached photo shows the "not too tight" straps and insulating foam blocks
to attached the rear windows. After gluing I filled in the seam with micro
balloons, sanded flush, then two bids of medium weight glass over the seam,
then more micro over the fiberglass to fair in (second photo). No paint
cracks after three years.

I also used Hysol for the adhesive as it had a good record with the Lancair
crowd:
http://shop.lancair.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=9360-QT&CatId={992B7B06-E01B-
4918-BB0C-79343CDB7869}
It worked, but I suspect the other options work just as well.

Carl

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:58 am    Post subject: Lord adhesive window installation question Reply with quote

Yes a cloth layer can and thus far no cracks where I placed it.
Pascal

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bwestfall



Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 128
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:05 am    Post subject: Lord adhesive window installation question Reply with quote

I did not use the Lord adhesive as I copied Dave Saylor's method using
Silpruf instead. Silpruf almost has a proseal consistency so it might be
less viscous which lends itself to this process a bit better maybe?

I glued the door windows in while attached to the plane. I used several tie
down straps and blocking to apply even, light pressure to the windows as
well as duct tape to keep them from moving. I did this for both the door
window transparencies and the fuselage ones. I think they came out ok but
the only air time my project has seen is dust falling on it in the garage so
YMMV.

See pictures.

Ben W
Portland, OR

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flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:26 am    Post subject: Lord adhesive window installation question Reply with quote

Thanks. Good to know. And you are pretty sure about that? Just worrying.

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Apr 8, 2015, at 7:34 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> wrote:



If you're not worried about looks, then let the cracks develop. It's not a window separation issue, just a dissimilar material issue.

Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 8, 2015, at 7:05 AM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> This is a little off topic but how are people repairing the hairline cracks that develop around the windows?
>
> Looking for an easy fix and not too worried about the looks. I just don't want to lose a window in the air right now.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 8, 2015, at 6:20 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> What Bob said.
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation, Inc.
>> 352-427-0285
>> jesse(at)saintaviation.com
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Apr 8, 2015, at 5:03 AM, Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The short answer is no. You need minimal pressure to hold the windows in place. If gravity causes any movement at all, you're going to have a major headache on your hands to resolve. I did my doors laying flat. On the rear windows I made fingers out of scrap aluminum to hold the pieces in place that were cleco'd to the cabin cover. You could do the same on the doors. The angle of the bend determines how much pressure is applied. You don't need much, just enough to keep things from moving.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <image1.jpeg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Apr 8, 2015, at 1:42 AM, Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone. I'm ready to attach the windows in my RV-10 and am looking for advice on those who have used the Lord 7545 A/E adhesive sold by Geoff at Aerosport Products. After reading lots of positive comments from here about it, I obtained a few tubes from him.
>>>>
>>>> The plans call for installing the windows onto the doors when the doors are off and laying flat, presumably to allow gravity to help hold them in place while they are being cured. Of course, the rear windows can't be installed with that luxury, but they're smaller and lighter. And the windscreen rests largely on the nose while curing, so that should be less of an issue too.
>>>>
>>>> But my question is, considering that Lord Adhesive is different than Vans' would have us use anyway, is it sticky enough that I could install the windows on the doors while the doors are closed and on the plane - in essentially the same orientation as the rear windows? The reason I ask isn't due to laziness Smile But instead, I'm one of the lucky ones whose doors ended up fitting quite well without a lot of work. And I figure that if the windows are attached to the doors while the doors are in their proper latched position, they can only help (slightly) to further stiffen the door in the proper position. The last thing I want to do is to fit the windows to the doors when the doors are on the floor, and then find that gravity warped things slightly while they were curing, and the doors no longer fit properly. It would seem to me that adhering the windows to the doors when the doors are in their closed position will help keep everything aligned properly, so long as the!
!
> L!
>> ord!
>>>> adhesive is sticky enough before fully cured that it will hold the window tightly to the door and in place while it is curing.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>> ---
>>>> Dan Charrois
>>>> President, Syzygy Research & Technology
>>>> Phone: 780-961-2213
>>> ====================================
>>> ====================================
>>> ====================================
>>> ====================================
>>>
>>> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face=3D"courier new,courier">
>>>
>>>
>>> </b></font></pre>







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flysrv10(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:28 am    Post subject: Lord adhesive window installation question Reply with quote

I built a plastic plane and should have know that a layer of thin fiberglass would be good insurance against cracks.

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Apr 8, 2015, at 8:02 AM, Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> wrote:



I used Lords adhesive and then glassed over the seams. It's been almost two years since painting and no cracks yet.

I know that didn't answer your question, but it may help the OP.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 8, 2015, at 7:05 AM, Flysrv10 <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> wrote:



This is a little off topic but how are people repairing the hairline cracks that develop around the windows?

Looking for an easy fix and not too worried about the looks. I just don't want to lose a window in the air right now.

Thanks.

Do not archive.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 8, 2015, at 6:20 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> What Bob said.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> 352-427-0285
> jesse(at)saintaviation.com
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 8, 2015, at 5:03 AM, Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> wrote:
>>
>> The short answer is no. You need minimal pressure to hold the windows in place. If gravity causes any movement at all, you're going to have a major headache on your hands to resolve. I did my doors laying flat. On the rear windows I made fingers out of scrap aluminum to hold the pieces in place that were cleco'd to the cabin cover. You could do the same on the doors. The angle of the bend determines how much pressure is applied. You don't need much, just enough to keep things from moving.
>>
>>
>>
>> <image1.jpeg>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Apr 8, 2015, at 1:42 AM, Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi everyone. I'm ready to attach the windows in my RV-10 and am looking for advice on those who have used the Lord 7545 A/E adhesive sold by Geoff at Aerosport Products. After reading lots of positive comments from here about it, I obtained a few tubes from him.
>>>
>>> The plans call for installing the windows onto the doors when the doors are off and laying flat, presumably to allow gravity to help hold them in place while they are being cured. Of course, the rear windows can't be installed with that luxury, but they're smaller and lighter. And the windscreen rests largely on the nose while curing, so that should be less of an issue too.
>>>
>>> But my question is, considering that Lord Adhesive is different than Vans' would have us use anyway, is it sticky enough that I could install the windows on the doors while the doors are closed and on the plane - in essentially the same orientation as the rear windows? The reason I ask isn't due to laziness Smile But instead, I'm one of the lucky ones whose doors ended up fitting quite well without a lot of work. And I figure that if the windows are attached to the doors while the doors are in their proper latched position, they can only help (slightly) to further stiffen the door in the proper position. The last thing I want to do is to fit the windows to the doors when the doors are on the floor, and then find that gravity warped things slightly while they were curing, and the doors no longer fit properly. It would seem to me that adhering the windows to the doors when the doors are in their closed position will help keep everything aligned properly, so long as the !
L!
> ord!
>>> adhesive is sticky enough before fully cured that it will hold the window tightly to the door and in place while it is curing.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Dan
>>> ---
>>> Dan Charrois
>>> President, Syzygy Research & Technology
>>> Phone: 780-961-2213
>> ====================================
>> ====================================
>> ====================================
>> ====================================
>>
>> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face=3D"courier new,courier">
>>
>>
>> </b></font></pre>












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dmasys



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:09 am    Post subject: Lord adhesive window installation question Reply with quote

Since my RV-10 seems to be the poster child for bad decisions made with
respect to window adhesives, I'll update the story. I used a composite
adhesive back in 2007 (no longer on the market) that Glasair builders were
asserting was much better than Weld-on 10. In 2011 at about 450 flight
hours, I had a rear window blow out in high, cold conditions (15K feet, -12
C outside, inside heaters blasting). It was a big surprise and caused a lot
of noise in the back seat and some turbulent air in the cockpit:
http://faculty.washington.edu/dmasys/RV10/RV10_lostwind_rearview.jpg

I replaced the rear window using Weld-on 10 as recommended by Vans.

Fast forward to 2014, with 750 flight hours. Climbing through 12K feet to
get over buildups near Eugene, OR, the entire pilot side door window
shattered and departed the plane. Most of the window fragments hit the VS
and HS, making a variety of dents in the leading edges. But some of them
came in the cockpit at high velocity. Luckily I had the Rosen visor swung
to the left, providing an extra layer of protection. A window fragment
shattered the Rosen visor; I got a small neck lump from the impact, but
nothing drew blood. So we continued on and made it back to base.
(Performance observation: an RV-10 that does 170kts with all of its windows
intact will still do 150kts at same power setting with the pilot side door
window absent, but it is awfully windy inside).

Suffice it to say, I removed and reattached the remaining windows with
Weld-on 10.

Moral of the story: make sure you have a compelling justification for
deviating from Van's directions on mounting the RV-10 windows.

-Dan Masys
N104LD

Time: 10:46:51 PM PST US
Subject: Lord adhesive window installation question
From: Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com>
Hi everyone. I'm ready to attach the windows in my RV-10 and am looking for
advice
on those who have used the Lord 7545 A/E adhesive sold by Geoff at Aerosport
Products. After reading lots of positive comments from here about it, I
obtained
a few tubes from him.

The plans call for installing the windows onto the doors when the doors are
off
and laying flat, presumably to allow gravity to help hold them in place
while
they are being cured. Of course, the rear windows can't be installed with
that
luxury, but they're smaller and lighter. And the windscreen rests largely
on the nose while curing, so that should be less of an issue too.

But my question is, considering that Lord Adhesive is different than Vans'
would
have us use anyway, is it sticky enough that I could install the windows on
the doors while the doors are closed and on the plane - in essentially the
same
orientation as the rear windows? The reason I ask isn't due to laziness Smile
But instead, I'm one of the lucky ones whose doors ended up fitting quite
well
without a lot of work. And I figure that if the windows are attached to the
doors while the doors are in their proper latched position, they can only
help
(slightly) to further stiffen the door in the proper position. The last
thing
I want to do is to fit the windows to the doors when the doors are on the
floor, and then find that gravity warped things slightly while they were
curing,
and the doors no longer fit properly. It would seem to me that adhering the
windows to the doors when the doors are in their closed position will help
keep
everything aligned properly, so long as the Lord adhesive is sticky enough
before fully cured that it will hold the window tightly to the door and in
place
while it is curing.

Thanks!

Dan
---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213


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flysrv10(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:34 am    Post subject: Lord adhesive window installation question Reply with quote

Wow! Glad all is well now.

Do not archive.

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Apr 8, 2015, at 12:05 PM, Dan Masys <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu> wrote:



Since my RV-10 seems to be the poster child for bad decisions made with
respect to window adhesives, I'll update the story. I used a composite
adhesive back in 2007 (no longer on the market) that Glasair builders were
asserting was much better than Weld-on 10. In 2011 at about 450 flight
hours, I had a rear window blow out in high, cold conditions (15K feet, -12
C outside, inside heaters blasting). It was a big surprise and caused a lot
of noise in the back seat and some turbulent air in the cockpit:
http://faculty.washington.edu/dmasys/RV10/RV10_lostwind_rearview.jpg

I replaced the rear window using Weld-on 10 as recommended by Vans.

Fast forward to 2014, with 750 flight hours. Climbing through 12K feet to
get over buildups near Eugene, OR, the entire pilot side door window
shattered and departed the plane. Most of the window fragments hit the VS
and HS, making a variety of dents in the leading edges. But some of them
came in the cockpit at high velocity. Luckily I had the Rosen visor swung
to the left, providing an extra layer of protection. A window fragment
shattered the Rosen visor; I got a small neck lump from the impact, but
nothing drew blood. So we continued on and made it back to base.
(Performance observation: an RV-10 that does 170kts with all of its windows
intact will still do 150kts at same power setting with the pilot side door
window absent, but it is awfully windy inside).

Suffice it to say, I removed and reattached the remaining windows with
Weld-on 10.

Moral of the story: make sure you have a compelling justification for
deviating from Van's directions on mounting the RV-10 windows.

-Dan Masys
N104LD

Time: 10:46:51 PM PST US
Subject: Lord adhesive window installation question
From: Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com>


Hi everyone. I'm ready to attach the windows in my RV-10 and am looking for
advice
on those who have used the Lord 7545 A/E adhesive sold by Geoff at Aerosport
Products. After reading lots of positive comments from here about it, I
obtained
a few tubes from him.

The plans call for installing the windows onto the doors when the doors are
off
and laying flat, presumably to allow gravity to help hold them in place
while
they are being cured. Of course, the rear windows can't be installed with
that
luxury, but they're smaller and lighter. And the windscreen rests largely
on the nose while curing, so that should be less of an issue too.

But my question is, considering that Lord Adhesive is different than Vans'
would
have us use anyway, is it sticky enough that I could install the windows on
the doors while the doors are closed and on the plane - in essentially the
same
orientation as the rear windows? The reason I ask isn't due to laziness Smile
But instead, I'm one of the lucky ones whose doors ended up fitting quite
well
without a lot of work. And I figure that if the windows are attached to the
doors while the doors are in their proper latched position, they can only
help
(slightly) to further stiffen the door in the proper position. The last
thing
I want to do is to fit the windows to the doors when the doors are on the
floor, and then find that gravity warped things slightly while they were
curing,
and the doors no longer fit properly. It would seem to me that adhering the
windows to the doors when the doors are in their closed position will help
keep
everything aligned properly, so long as the Lord adhesive is sticky enough
before fully cured that it will hold the window tightly to the door and in
place
while it is curing.

Thanks!

Dan
---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213
















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Guest





PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:45 am    Post subject: Lord adhesive window installation question Reply with quote

Thanks, everyone, for the great response.

I never even thought of using aluminum "fingers" like that (or straps and foam blocks as others have done). That's a great idea, and so simple too and straightforward too! I guess that even after getting this far with fibreglass, I still don't automatically realize that it's OK to drill holes where you don't want them permanently!

I'm definitely going to try this idea, and with the doors on and shut for good measure too instead of on the bench (can't hurt!).

Thanks again!

Dan

Quote:
On 2015-Apr-08, at 3:03 AM, Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> wrote:

The short answer is no. You need minimal pressure to hold the windows in place. If gravity causes any movement at all, you're going to have a major headache on your hands to resolve. I did my doors laying flat. On the rear windows I made fingers out of scrap aluminum to hold the pieces in place that were cleco'd to the cabin cover. You could do the same on the doors. The angle of the bend determines how much pressure is applied. You don't need much, just enough to keep things from moving.



<image1.jpeg>


Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 8, 2015, at 1:42 AM, Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi everyone. I'm ready to attach the windows in my RV-10 and am looking for advice on those who have used the Lord 7545 A/E adhesive sold by Geoff at Aerosport Products. After reading lots of positive comments from here about it, I obtained a few tubes from him.
>
> The plans call for installing the windows onto the doors when the doors are off and laying flat, presumably to allow gravity to help hold them in place while they are being cured. Of course, the rear windows can't be installed with that luxury, but they're smaller and lighter. And the windscreen rests largely on the nose while curing, so that should be less of an issue too.
>
> But my question is, considering that Lord Adhesive is different than Vans' would have us use anyway, is it sticky enough that I could install the windows on the doors while the doors are closed and on the plane - in essentially the same orientation as the rear windows? The reason I ask isn't due to laziness Smile But instead, I'm one of the lucky ones whose doors ended up fitting quite well without a lot of work. And I figure that if the windows are attached to the doors while the doors are in their proper latched position, they can only help (slightly) to further stiffen the door in the proper position. The last thing I want to do is to fit the windows to the doors when the doors are on the floor, and then find that gravity warped things slightly while they were curing, and the doors no longer fit properly. It would seem to me that adhering the windows to the doors when the doors are in their closed position will help keep everything aligned properly, so long as the Lord!
> adhesive is sticky enough before fully cured that it will hold the window tightly to the door and in place while it is curing.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Dan
> ---
> Dan Charrois
> President, Syzygy Research & Technology
> Phone: 780-961-2213
>
>
>
====================================
====================================
====================================
====================================
>
>
>

<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">


</b></font></pre>

---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213


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