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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 8:37 am Post subject: Help on this situation. |
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I started the disassembling and found that the bolt area I thought was the front one was actually the rear bolt. From what I can tell the damage to the front bolt area isn't nearly as bad as the rear bolt area. Both sides seem to have the same amount of damage with the worst of it to the rear bolt area. I guess when I get the landing gear completely off I will find out.
I attached photos of the top part of both the left & right bolts.
On Thursday, May 7, 2015, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> KIS-List message posted by: "Tim Yoder" <[url=javascript:;]ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com[/url]>
Mark,
I have a TR-1, is the vital modification you speak of in the last paragraph,
The wedge canting the gear forward? If it is, how thick is the wedge?
Thanks,
Tim KIT#49
--
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aeromomentum(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 10:23 am Post subject: Help on this situation. |
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Hard to tell with the bolts and washers in place.
There really should not be all that much load on the aft bolt even with the gear leg slanted forward. Maybe the aft bolt is getting loaded by the rebound flex of the center part of the gear leg. If this is the case radius blocks would be a huge help. Not because of the radius but just because of the added space and clearance on the center part if the gear box.
Mark
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 5/14/15, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Re: Help on this situation.
To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Thursday, May 14, 2015, 12:36 PM
I started the disassembling and
found that the bolt areaI thought was the front one was
actuallythe rear bolt. From what Ican tell the damage to
thefrontbolt areaisn't nearlyas bad as the rear
bolt area. Both sides seem to have the same amount
ofdamage withthe worst of itto the rear bolt area. I
guess when I get the landing gear completely off I will find
out.
I attached photos of the top part of boththe
left & rightbolts.
On Thursday, May 7, 2015, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com>
wrote:
"Tim Yoder" <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com>
Mark,
I have a TR-1, is the vital modification you speak of in the
last paragraph,
The wedge canting the gear forward? If it is, how thick is
the wedge?
Thanks,
Tim KIT#49
--
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Robert Reed
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 6:09 pm Post subject: Help on this situation. |
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Galin,
The amount of distortion on the washers both front and back on both sides indicates a substantial pull on those bolts resulting either from a twisting of the landing gear or from some rebound of the gear following a landing. Were there rubber pads under all of those washers or were they anchored directly against the fiberglass? If there were rubber pads under the washers, how thick were they? The ones that are there look rather thin and would not have allowed much compression. I seem to remember that I had to order longer bolts to allow for the length needed to include a 1/2 inch rubber pad under all four washers and between the gear and the underside of the fuselage.
After seeing those washers I am thinking the whole thing needs to be beefed up allow compression of the pads without distortion of the washers by using either thicker washers or multiple washers.
By the way, any information on vinyl wraps from Sun-N-Fun?
Bob Reed
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>ow To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 11:36 AM Subject: Re: Re: Help on this situation.
I started the disassembling and found that the bolt area I thought was the front one was actually the rear bolt. From what I can tell the damage to the front bolt area isn't nearly as bad as the rear bolt area. Both sides seem to have the same amount of damage with the worst of it to the rear bolt area. I guess when I get the landing gear completely off I will find out.
I attached photos of the top part of both the left & right bolts.
On Thursday, May 7, 2015, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:[quote]--> KIS-List message posted by: "Tim Yoder" <[url=]ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com[/url]> Mark, I have a TR-1, is the vital modification you speak of in the last paragraph, The wedge canting the gear forward? If it is, how thick is the wedge? Thanks, Tim KIT#49 --
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 2:50 pm Post subject: Help on this situation. |
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Bob, I agree that the entire area needs to be beefed up. I am thinking about putting a 1/4" aluminum or 3/16" steel plate on the top part to spread the load out over a significantly larger area after the repair. Something in the order of about 4" on either side. I will also place large area washers and 1/2" thick rubber pad in the top and bottom as OC indicated.
I am so sorry but completely forgot to ask about the vinyl wrap while I was at Sun N Fun. 
On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 10:09 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:
[quote]Galin,
The amount of distortion on the washers both front and back on both sides indicates a substantial pull on those bolts resulting either from a twisting of the landing gear or from some rebound of the gear following a landing. Were there rubber pads under all of those washers or were they anchored directly against the fiberglass? If there were rubber pads under the washers, how thick were they? The ones that are there look rather thin and would not have allowed much compression. I seem to remember that I had to order longer bolts to allow for the length needed to include a 1/2 inch rubber pad under all four washers and between the gear and the underside of the fuselage.
After seeing those washers I am thinking the whole thing needs to be beefed up allow compression of the pads without distortion of the washers by using either thicker washers or multiple washers.
By the way, any information on vinyl wraps from Sun-N-Fun?
Bob Reed
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>ow To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 11:36 AM Subject: Re: Re: Help on this situation.
I started the disassembling and found that the bolt area I thought was the front one was actually the rear bolt. From what I can tell the damage to the front bolt area isn't nearly as bad as the rear bolt area. Both sides seem to have the same amount of damage with the worst of it to the rear bolt area. I guess when I get the landing gear completely off I will find out.
I attached photos of the top part of both the left & right bolts.
On Thursday, May 7, 2015, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> KIS-List message posted by: "Tim Yoder" <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com> Mark, I have a TR-1, is the vital modification you speak of in the last paragraph, The wedge canting the gear forward? If it is, how thick is the wedge? Thanks, Tim KIT#49 --
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Robert Reed
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 5:08 pm Post subject: Help on this situation. |
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Galin,
I agree with beefing up the fiberglass portion but my concern is with the upper washer which appears to be subject to deformation even with the rubber pad. Once deformed it will result in the reduction in the clamping provided by the bolts. Once that happens the slack will result in more deformation with each additional landing. I think you (we) need to beef up the washers as well but not by making a larger washer but maybe doubling the washers. You sill want the deflection provided by the rubber pad but don't want to reduce it by using oversized washers.
Hope that made some sense.
No problem on the vinyl wrap, I am going to order some samples and materials and give it a try.
Bob
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>
To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Help on this situation.
Bob, I agree that the entire area needs to be beefed up. I am thinking about putting a 1/4" aluminum or 3/16" steel plate on the top part to spread the load out over a significantly larger area after the repair. Something in the order of about 4" on either side. I will also place large area washers and 1/2" thick rubber pad in the top and bottom as OC indicated.
I am so sorry but completely forgot to ask about the vinyl wrap while I was at Sun N Fun.
On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 10:09 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:[quote]Galin,
The amount of distortion on the washers both front and back on both sides indicates a substantial pull on those bolts resulting either from a twisting of the landing gear or from some rebound of the gear following a landing. Were there rubber pads under all of those washers or were they anchored directly against the fiberglass? If there were rubber pads under the washers, how thick were they? The ones that are there look rather thin and would not have allowed much compression. I seem to remember that I had to order longer bolts to allow for the length needed to include a 1/2 inch rubber pad under all four washers and between the gear and the underside of the fuselage.
After seeing those washers I am thinking the whole thing needs to be beefed up allow compression of the pads without distortion of the washers by using either thicker washers or multiple washers.
By the way, any information on vinyl wraps from Sun-N-Fun?
Bob Reed
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>ow To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 11:36 AM Subject: Re: Re: Help on this situation.
I started the disassembling and found that the bolt area I thought was the front one was actually the rear bolt. From what I can tell the damage to the front bolt area isn't nearly as bad as the rear bolt area. Both sides seem to have the same amount of damage withthe worst of it to the rear bolt area. I guess when I get the landing gear completely off I will find out.
I attached photos of the top part of both the left & right bolts.
On Thursday, May 7, 2015, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> KIS-List message posted by: "Tim Yoder" <[url=]ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com[/url]> Mark, I have a TR-1, is the vital modification you speak of in the last paragraph, The wedge canting the gear forward? If it is, how thick is the wedge? Thanks, Tim KIT#49 --
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bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 7:31 pm Post subject: Help on this situation. |
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5/15/2015
Hello Galin, You wrote: “I will also place large area washers and 1/2" thick rubber pad in the top and bottom as OC indicated.”
Just to clarify: The only elastomeric / rubber / neoprene material that I used in the fastening of my KIS TR-1 aluminum main landing gear to the groove in the bottom of the fuselage was a single 1/8 or 1/4 inch thick sheet of such material inserted between the entire top of the cross bar of the aluminum landing gear and the bottom of the fuselage groove. The main benefit that I was attempting to achieve with this insertion was to prevent the hard aluminum cross bar from crushing and crumbling any high spots that may exist in the wedging flox bed placed between the cross bar and the fuselage groove.
It should be noted that since the cross bar and elastomeric material was embedded into the flox wedge while the flox wedge was still wet and uncured the match up between the surface of the elastomeric material and the cured flox should have been very intimate.
This clarification is in no way intended to pass judgment on the merits of placing elastomeric material of any thickness or Durometer (hardness) in any location on the fastening of aluminum main landing gear on the 4 place KIS airplane.
OC
==========================
From: Galin Hernandez (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 6:50 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Help on this situation.
Bob, I agree that the entire area needs to be beefed up. I am thinking about putting a 1/4" aluminum or 3/16" steel plate on the top part to spread the load out over a significantly larger area after the repair. Something in the order of about 4" on either side. I will also place large area washers and 1/2" thick rubber pad in the top and bottom as OC indicated.
I am so sorry but completely forgot to ask about the vinyl wrap while I was at Sun N Fun.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Robert Reed
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 7:38 am Post subject: Help on this situation. |
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:18 am Post subject: Help on this situation. |
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Since a picture is worth 1,000 words, and it seems I am not doing a very good job of explaining myself, I decided to make a "drawing" of what I am thinking of doing. If everything goes well, I will have an "expert" do the actual repair while I watch and try to help.
On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 9:07 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:
[quote]
Galin,
I agree with beefing up the fiberglass portion but my concern is with the upper washer which appears to be subject to deformation even with the rubber pad. Once deformed it will result in the reduction in the clamping provided by the bolts. Once that happens the slack will result in more deformation with each additional landing. I think you (we) need to beef up the washers as well but not by making a larger washer but maybe doubling the washers. You sill want the deflection provided by the rubber pad but don't want to reduce it by using oversized washers.
Hope that made some sense.
No problem on the vinyl wrap, I am going to order some samples and materials and give it a try.
Bob
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>
To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Help on this situation.
Bob, I agree that the entire area needs to be beefed up. I am thinking about putting a 1/4" aluminum or 3/16" steel plate on the top part to spread the load out over a significantly larger area after the repair. Something in the order of about 4" on either side. I will also place large area washers and 1/2" thick rubber pad in the top and bottom as OC indicated.
I am so sorry but completely forgot to ask about the vinyl wrap while I was at Sun N Fun.
On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 10:09 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:
[quote]Galin,
The amount of distortion on the washers both front and back on both sides indicates a substantial pull on those bolts resulting either from a twisting of the landing gear or from some rebound of the gear following a landing. Were there rubber pads under all of those washers or were they anchored directly against the fiberglass? If there were rubber pads under the washers, how thick were they? The ones that are there look rather thin and would not have allowed much compression. I seem to remember that I had to order longer bolts to allow for the length needed to include a 1/2 inch rubber pad under all four washers and between the gear and the underside of the fuselage.
After seeing those washers I am thinking the whole thing needs to be beefed up allow compression of the pads without distortion of the washers by using either thicker washers or multiple washers.
By the way, any information on vinyl wraps from Sun-N-Fun?
Bob Reed
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>ow To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 11:36 AM Subject: Re: Re: Help on this situation.
I started the disassembling and found that the bolt area I thought was the front one was actually the rear bolt. From what I can tell the damage to the front bolt area isn't nearly as bad as the rear bolt area. Both sides seem to have the same amount of damage with the worst of it to the rear bolt area. I guess when I get the landing gear completely off I will find out.
I attached photos of the top part of both the left & right bolts.
On Thursday, May 7, 2015, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> KIS-List message posted by: "Tim Yoder" <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com> Mark, I have a TR-1, is the vital modification you speak of in the last paragraph, The wedge canting the gear forward? If it is, how thick is the wedge? Thanks, Tim KIT#49 --
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:40 am Post subject: Help on this situation. |
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I still highly recommend using the grove radius blocks and not using any rubber anywhere. I would use 1/8" aluminum plate instead of steel. The steel is a pain to work with and it will rust. I would also just use fiberglass for the repair since carbon can react with metal and it is difficult to tell if carbon has enough epoxy soaked into it.
Scott
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>
To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Help on this situation.
Since a picture is worth 1,000 words, and it seems I am not doing a very good job of explaining myself, I decided to make a "drawing" of what I am thinking of doing. If everything goes well, I will have an "expert" do the actual repair while I watch and try to help.
On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 9:07 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:[quote]
Galin,
I agree with beefing up the fiberglass portion but my concern is with the upper washer which appears to be subject to deformation even with the rubber pad. Once deformed it will result in the reduction in the clamping provided by the bolts. Once that happens the slack will result in more deformation with each additional landing. I think you(we) need to beef up the washers as well but not by making a larger washer but maybe doubling the washers. You sill want the deflection provided by the rubber pad but don't want to reduce it by using oversized washers.
Hope that made some sense.
No problem on the vinyl wrap, I am going to order some samples and materials and give it a try.
Bob
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 5:50 PM Subject: Re: Re: Help on this situation.
Bob, I agree that the entire area needs to be beefed up. I am thinking about putting a 1/4" aluminum or 3/16" steel plate on the top part to spread the load out over a significantly larger area after the repair. Something in the order of about 4" on either side. I will also place large area washers and 1/2" thick rubber pad in the top and bottom as OC indicated.
I am so sorry but completely forgot to ask about the vinyl wrap while I was at Sun N Fun.
On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 10:09 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:
[quote]Galin,
The amount of distortion on the washers both front and back on both sides indicates a substantial pull on those bolts resulting either from a twisting of the landing gear or from some rebound of the gear following a landing. Were there rubber pads under all of those washers or were they anchored directly against the fiberglass? If there were rubber pads under the washers, how thick were they? The ones that are there look rather thin and would not have allowed much compression. I seem to remember that I had to order longer bolts to allow for the length needed to include a 1/2 inch rubber pad under all four washers and between the gear and the underside of the fuselage.
After seeing those washers I am thinking the whole thing needs to be beefed up allow compression of the pads without distortion of the washers by using either thicker washers or multiple washers.
By the way, any information on vinyl wraps from Sun-N-Fun?
Bob Reed
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>ow To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 11:36 AM Subject: Re: Re: Help on this situation.
I started the disassembling and found that the bolt area I thought was the front one was actually the rear bolt. From what I can tell the damage to the front bolt area isn't nearly as bad as the rear bolt area. Both sides seem to have the same amount of damage with the worst of it to the rear bolt area. I guess when I get the landing gear completely off I will find out.
I attached photos of the top part of both the left & right bolts.
On Thursday, May 7, 2015, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> KIS-List message posted by: "Tim Yoder" <[url=]ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com[/url]> Mark, I have a TR-1, is the vital modification you speak of in the last paragraph, The wedge canting the gear forward? If it is, how thick is the wedge? Thanks, Tim KIT#49 --
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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