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aeromomentum(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:51 pm Post subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana C |
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Congratulations!
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 12/8/15, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana Cuba.
To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 8, 2015, 3:49 PM
I had the
privilege of receiving permission from the Cuban Civil
Aviation Authority to land my KIS Cruiser EAB (N819PR) in to
Havana which I did on December 4, 2015 thus being, as far as
I can tell, the 1st US registered EAB to land in Cuba. As
far as I can tell the 1st EABÂ to arrive in Cuba was a
Canadian registered Seawind flown by either Vincent Rossi or
Dimitrios Mamais who landed in to Havana sometime
between 1996 and 1999.
I will get around to doing a write up of the
whole trip but I have to figure out my notes first. In the
mean time here is a link to a photobucket album showing how
bad the weather was when we arrived. We didn't have any
lightning just torrential rain and a bumpy ride. We saw the
runway lights at about 1,200ft and finally broke out about
800ft.
http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/ghrmsr/library/1st%20US%20Experimental%20to%20Havana
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:55 pm Post subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana C |
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Very cool...
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>
To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 3:49 PM
Subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana Cuba.
I had the privilege of receiving permission from the Cuban Civil Aviation Authority to land my KIS Cruiser EAB (N819PR) in to Havana which I did on December 4, 2015 thus being, as far as I can tell, the 1st US registered EAB to land in Cuba. As far as I can tell the 1st EAB to arrive in Cuba was a Canadian registered Seawind flown by either Vincent Rossi or Dimitrios Mamais who landed in to Havana sometime between 1996 and 1999.
I will get around to doing a write up of the whole trip but I have to figure out my notes first. In the mean time here is a link to a photobucket album showing how bad the weather was when we arrived. We didn't have any lightning just torrential rain and a bumpy ride. We saw the runway lights at about 1,200ft and finally broke out about 800ft.
http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/ghrmsr/library/1st%20US%20Experimental%20to%20Havana
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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fredorosa(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:40 pm Post subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana C |
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Cool panel. Â I knew you got the 2 Dynon EFIS recently and since they're not IFR rated thought you were VFR equipped.
Al
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 6:30 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Al; My airplane is full IFR with triple redundant flight instruments, dual redundant certified IFR navigation equipment, two additional non certified navigation sources and heated pitot tube. My navigation sources are connected to my autopilot and altitude hold module so it can do an approach if needed. You can see the instruments on the attached photo taken while doing an approach (DME Arc to Rwy15 at MSSS) in actual IMC conditions back in 2014.
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Galin,
I didn't think your plane was IFR but you say you broke out of the clouds at 800 ft ?
Al Rosa
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 13, 2015, at 4:32 PM, "Kent Pyle" <kentpyle(at)iland.net (kentpyle(at)iland.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Galin, This is a real big deal. congratulations. KentÂ
From: Galin Hernandez (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 2:49 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana Cuba.
Â
I had the privilege of receiving permission from the Cuban Civil Aviation Authority to land my KIS Cruiser EAB (N819PR) in to Havana which I did on December 4, 2015 thus being, as far as I can tell, the 1st US registered EAB to land in Cuba. As far as I can tell the 1st EAB to arrive in Cuba was a Canadian registered Seawind flown by either Vincent Rossi or Dimitrios Mamais who landed in to Havana sometime between 1996 and 1999.
Â
I will get around to doing a write up of the whole trip but I have to figure out my notes first. In the mean time here is a link to a photobucket album showing how bad the weather was when we arrived. We didn't have any lightning just torrential rain and a bumpy ride. We saw the runway lights at about 1,200ft and finally broke out about 800ft.
Â
http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/ghrmsr/library/1st%20US%20Experimental%20to%20Havana
|
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:40 pm Post subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana C |
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Al;Â My airplane is full IFR with triple redundant flight instruments, dual
redundant certified IFR navigation equipment, two additional non certified
navigation sources and heated pitot tube. My navigation sources are
connected to my autopilot and altitude hold module so it can do an approach
if needed. You can see the instruments on the attached photo taken while
doing an approach (DME Arc to Rwy15 at MSSS) in actual IMC conditions back
in 2014.
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Galin,
I didn't think your plane was IFR but you say you broke out of the clouds at 800 ft ?
Al Rosa
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 13, 2015, at 4:32 PM, "Kent Pyle" <kentpyle(at)iland.net (kentpyle(at)iland.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Galin, This is a real big deal. congratulations. KentÂ
From: Galin Hernandez (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 2:49 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana Cuba.
Â
I had the privilege of receiving permission from the Cuban Civil Aviation Authority to land my KIS Cruiser EAB (N819PR) in to Havana which I did on December 4, 2015 thus being, as far as I can tell, the 1st US registered EAB to land in Cuba. As far as I can tell the 1st EAB to arrive in Cuba was a Canadian registered Seawind flown by either Vincent Rossi or Dimitrios Mamais who landed in to Havana sometime between 1996 and 1999.
Â
I will get around to doing a write up of the whole trip but I have to figure out my notes first. In the mean time here is a link to a photobucket album showing how bad the weather was when we arrived. We didn't have any lightning just torrential rain and a bumpy ride. We saw the runway lights at about 1,200ft and finally broke out about 800ft.
Â
http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/ghrmsr/library/1st%20US%20Experimental%20to%20Havana
|
|
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:17 pm Post subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana C |
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The DYNON is not a navigator but flight instruments. The Garmin 430W and the VAL INS-429 are both IFR certified navigation systems. The DYNON provides the flight instruments and displays the navigation data from the G430W with the VAL INS-429 as a completely independent IFR navigator.
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Cool panel. Â I knew you got the 2 Dynon EFIS recently and since they're not IFR rated thought you were VFR equipped.
Al
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 6:30 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Al; My airplane is full IFR with triple redundant flight instruments, dual redundant certified IFR navigation equipment, two additional non certified navigation sources and heated pitot tube. My navigation sources are connected to my autopilot and altitude hold module so it can do an approach if needed. You can see the instruments on the attached photo taken while doing an approach (DME Arc to Rwy15 at MSSS) in actual IMC conditions back in 2014.
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Galin,
I didn't think your plane was IFR but you say you broke out of the clouds at 800 ft ?
Al Rosa
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 13, 2015, at 4:32 PM, "Kent Pyle" <kentpyle(at)iland.net (kentpyle(at)iland.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Galin, This is a real big deal. congratulations. KentÂ
From: Galin Hernandez (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 2:49 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana Cuba.
Â
I had the privilege of receiving permission from the Cuban Civil Aviation Authority to land my KIS Cruiser EAB (N819PR) in to Havana which I did on December 4, 2015 thus being, as far as I can tell, the 1st US registered EAB to land in Cuba. As far as I can tell the 1st EAB to arrive in Cuba was a Canadian registered Seawind flown by either Vincent Rossi or Dimitrios Mamais who landed in to Havana sometime between 1996 and 1999.
Â
I will get around to doing a write up of the whole trip but I have to figure out my notes first. In the mean time here is a link to a photobucket album showing how bad the weather was when we arrived. We didn't have any lightning just torrential rain and a bumpy ride. We saw the runway lights at about 1,200ft and finally broke out about 800ft.
Â
http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/ghrmsr/library/1st%20US%20Experimental%20to%20Havana
|
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| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:12 pm Post subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana C |
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FWIW here is a link to a video my wife took while I had my hands full as we approached to land in to Havana.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcCFVaueyqI
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 9:11 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | The DYNON is not a navigator but flight instruments. The Garmin 430W and the VAL INS-429 are both IFR certified navigation systems. The DYNON provides the flight instruments and displays the navigation data from the G430W with the VAL INS-429 as a completely independent IFR navigator.
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Cool panel. Â I knew you got the 2 Dynon EFIS recently and since they're not IFR rated thought you were VFR equipped.
Al
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 6:30 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Al; My airplane is full IFR with triple redundant flight instruments, dual redundant certified IFR navigation equipment, two additional non certified navigation sources and heated pitot tube. My navigation sources are connected to my autopilot and altitude hold module so it can do an approach if needed. You can see the instruments on the attached photo taken while doing an approach (DME Arc to Rwy15 at MSSS) in actual IMC conditions back in 2014.
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Galin,
I didn't think your plane was IFR but you say you broke out of the clouds at 800 ft ?
Al Rosa
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 13, 2015, at 4:32 PM, "Kent Pyle" <kentpyle(at)iland.net (kentpyle(at)iland.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Galin, This is a real big deal. congratulations. KentÂ
From: Galin Hernandez (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 2:49 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana Cuba.
Â
I had the privilege of receiving permission from the Cuban Civil Aviation Authority to land my KIS Cruiser EAB (N819PR) in to Havana which I did on December 4, 2015 thus being, as far as I can tell, the 1st US registered EAB to land in Cuba. As far as I can tell the 1st EAB to arrive in Cuba was a Canadian registered Seawind flown by either Vincent Rossi or Dimitrios Mamais who landed in to Havana sometime between 1996 and 1999.
Â
I will get around to doing a write up of the whole trip but I have to figure out my notes first. In the mean time here is a link to a photobucket album showing how bad the weather was when we arrived. We didn't have any lightning just torrential rain and a bumpy ride. We saw the runway lights at about 1,200ft and finally broke out about 800ft.
Â
http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/ghrmsr/library/1st%20US%20Experimental%20to%20Havana
|
|
|
|
|
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:38 am Post subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana C |
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Adding to what others have said about IFR equipment certification, even
though "TSO'd" equipment is not required for an EAB, in order to legally
fly GPS IFR the GPS unit it must be certified to TSO-C129 or equivalent as
per AIM 1-1-19. This requirement specifically applies "*for any IFR
operation*" thus making it applicable to EAB aircraft.
The TSO covers much more than just an accurate GPS position source but also
includes the database(s) and error (RAIM) checking. If you can demonstrate
your GPS complies with the requirements of TSO-C129 then you can use it as
a GPS navigation source for your EAB aircraft. However, you will probably
find that if you went through the extensive paperwork required to prove
your GPS complies with the TSO you might as well obtain the TSO,
increase the number of aircraft you can sell to and the point will be moot.
Here are some links that cover this specific issue:
https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_content.aspx?cID=38&sID=247&preview=true
A good discussion on this topic can be found on the DYNON forum:
http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1362597418
ADS-B "OUT" position sources don't have to be TSO's but must still meet the
equivalent (14CFR-91.227 amongst others) requirement. The position
source (doesn't have to be a GPS based) manufacturer must document it meets
the requirements and again is true for all aircraft, not just EAB. The
Catch-22 is that certificated aircraft require an authorization from the
aircraft manufacturer for installation and they all have required TSO'd
equipment. But nothing says you can't install a non TSO'd ADS-B position
source that meets the requirements in a certificated aircraft using an
FAA-337 as long as you have compliance documentation, an A&P or avionics
repair station signs off on it and the local FSDO agrees.
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%2020-165.pdf
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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fredorosa(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:07 am Post subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana C |
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Wow, a post that would make OC Baker proud. Thanks.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:36 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Adding to what others have said about IFR equipment certification, even though "TSO'd" equipment is not required for an EAB, in order to legally fly GPS IFR the GPS unit it must be certified to TSO-C129 or equivalent as per AIM 1-1-19. This requirement specifically applies "for any IFR operation" thus making it applicable to EAB aircraft.
The TSO covers much more than just an accurate GPS position source but also includes the database(s) and error (RAIM) checking. If you can demonstrate your GPS complies with the requirements of TSO-C129 then you can use it as a GPS navigation source for your EAB aircraft. However, you will probably find that if you went through the extensive paperwork required to prove your GPS complies with the TSO you might as well obtain the TSO, increase the number of aircraft you can sell to and the point will be moot.
Here are some links that cover this specific issue:
https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_content.aspx?cID=38&sID=247&preview=true
A good discussion on this topic can be found on the DYNON forum:
http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1362597418
ADS-B "OUT" position sources don't have to be TSO's but must still meet the equivalent (14CFR-91.227 amongst others) requirement. The position source (doesn't have to be a GPS based) manufacturer must document it meets the requirements and again is true for all aircraft, not just EAB. The Catch-22 is that certificated aircraft require an authorization from the aircraft manufacturer for installation and they all have required TSO'd equipment. But nothing says you can't install a non TSO'd ADS-B position source that meets the requirements in a certificated aircraft using an FAA-337 as long as you have compliance documentation, an A&P or avionics repair station signs off on it and the local FSDO agrees.
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%2020-165.pdf
.
Now for navigation based on VOR, LOC, ILS and NDB's the TSO requirement does not apply to EAB aircraft. Remember, VOR's, NDB's and ILS' were in use long before TSO certification even existed and some older aircraft still have working non TSO'd equipment that came with the airplane.
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
FWIW here is a link to a video my wife took while I had my hands full as we approached to land in to Havana.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcCFVaueyqI
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 9:11 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | The DYNON is not a navigator but flight instruments. The Garmin 430W and the VAL INS-429 are both IFR certified navigation systems. The DYNON provides the flight instruments and displays the navigation data from the G430W with the VAL INS-429 as a completely independent IFR navigator.
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Cool panel. I knew you got the 2 Dynon EFIS recently and since they're not IFR rated thought you were VFR equipped.
Al
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 6:30 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Al; My airplane is full IFR with triple redundant flight instruments, dual redundant certified IFR navigation equipment, two additional non certified navigation sources and heated pitot tube. My navigation sources are connected to my autopilot and altitude hold module so it can do an approach if needed. You can see the instruments on the attached photo taken while doing an approach (DME Arc to Rwy15 at MSSS) in actual IMC conditions back in 2014.
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Galin,
I didn't think your plane was IFR but you say you broke out of the clouds at 800 ft ?
Al Rosa
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 13, 2015, at 4:32 PM, "Kent Pyle" <kentpyle(at)iland.net (kentpyle(at)iland.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Galin, This is a real big deal. congratulations. Kent
From: Galin Hernandez (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 2:49 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana Cuba.
I had the privilege of receiving permission from the Cuban Civil Aviation Authority to land my KIS Cruiser EAB (N819PR) in to Havana which I did on December 4, 2015 thus being, as far as I can tell, the 1st US registered EAB to land in Cuba. As far as I can tell the 1st EAB to arrive in Cuba was a Canadian registered Seawind flown by either Vincent Rossi or Dimitrios Mamais who landed in to Havana sometime between 1996 and 1999.
I will get around to doing a write up of the whole trip but I have to figure out my notes first. In the mean time here is a link to a photobucket album showing how bad the weather was when we arrived. We didn't have any lightning just torrential rain and a bumpy ride. We saw the runway lights at about 1,200ft and finally broke out about 800ft.
http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/ghrmsr/library/1st%20US%20Experimental%20to%20Havana
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| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:47 am Post subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana C |
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12/14/2015
Hello Al, either proud or slightly overwhelmed. I’ll need a few days (weeks?) to digest both Galin’s post and Mark’s response.
OC
PS: A person may be able to handle one slippery eel. A person may be even able to handle one whole bucket full of slippery eels. But
when it comes to handling many buckets of slippery eels even the most sure handed person is going to be challenged.
====================================
From: Alfred Rosa (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 11:07 AM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana Cuba.
Wow, a post that would make OC Baker proud. Thanks.
Sent from my iPhone
===============================================
On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:36 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Adding to what others have said about IFR equipment certification, even though "TSO'd" equipment is not required for an EAB, in order to legally fly GPS IFR the GPS unit it must be certified to TSO-C129 or equivalent as per AIM 1-1-19. This requirement specifically applies "for any IFR operation" thus making it applicable to EAB aircraft.
The TSO covers much more than just an accurate GPS position source but also includes the database(s) and error (RAIM) checking. If you can demonstrate your GPS complies with the requirements of TSO-C129 then you can use it as a GPS navigation source for your EAB aircraft. However, you will probably find that if you went through the extensive paperwork required to prove your GPS complies with the TSO you might as well obtain the TSO, increase the number of aircraft you can sell to and the point will be moot.
Here are some links that cover this specific issue:
https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_content.aspx?cID=38&sID=247&preview=true
A good discussion on this topic can be found on the DYNON forum:
http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1362597418
ADS-B "OUT" position sources don't have to be TSO's but must still meet the equivalent (14CFR-91.227 amongst others) requirement. The position source (doesn't have to be a GPS based) manufacturer must document it meets the requirements and again is true for all aircraft, not just EAB. The Catch-22 is that certificated aircraft require an authorization from the aircraft manufacturer for installation and they all have required TSO'd equipment. But nothing says you can't install a non TSO'd ADS-B position source that meets the requirements in a certificated aircraft using an FAA-337 as long as you have compliance documentation, an A&P or avionics repair station signs off on it and the local FSDO agrees.
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%2020-165.pdf
.
Now for navigation based on VOR, LOC, ILS and NDB's the TSO requirement does not apply to EAB aircraft. Remember, VOR's, NDB's and ILS' were in use long before TSO certification even existed and some older aircraft still have working non TSO'd equipment that came with the airplane.
=================================
From: M Ketteing
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 10:43 AM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana Cuba.
--> KIS-List message posted by: M Ketteing <aeromomentum(at)yahoo.com>
Good thing the the AIM and Advisory Circulars (and Dynon web page) are informational and not regulations. Or your "system" would not be legal for use IFR. Keep in mind that for the TSO-C129 GPS to meet the TSO it must be connected to an approved CDI, etc. So you would need to look up what CDI's have been approved (when Garmin got the TSO they made a required list) for your make and model GPS and use one of those. Dynon is not one of those, hence the TSO-C129 is not valid for your installation.
As the owner/builder you do need to make sure your "system" meets the applicable requirements of TSO-C129 or similar but absolutely there is no regulation that it needs to be certified to meet TSO-C129 or others nor is there a requirement to prove it, unless there is an enforcement issue due to a demonstrated problem.
The whole point being is the owner/builder/pilot is the responsible party.
But as I said before you will get a different answer from everyone you ask.
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:58 pm Post subject: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana C |
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Well, yes and no at the same time. The Garmin 430W navigation box complies
with the TSO but the TSO does not specify which external display must be
used only that it have an external display with certain features. The
Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) Garmin obtained for specific airframes
indicates which external displays can be used and the displays can be
different depending on airframe. Since an EAB does not have a type
certificate, there is no supplement for a non-existent certificate the
specific equipment list Garmin provides in their STC(s) not apply. The
airframe STC is a different animal from equipment TSO requirement.
This brings us right back to the fact that if the equipment (in this case
the external display) meets the requirements of the TSO it can be used in
an EAB as long as the manufacturer has documentation proving this. DYNON
has repeatedly stated the SkyView external display meets the requirement,
have the documentation on file and the FAA is fine with it. This is why you
can use the DYNON or any other EFIS (Garmin G3X for example) external
display in an EAB and still be legal to fly GPS IFR with it. This
requirement does not apply to the VOR, ILS, LOC or NDB receivers, just GPS
Navigators.
In my specific case, in addition to the SkyView EFIS I have a TSO'd VAL
INS-429 unit that is also an external navigation information display. I can
actually display my G430W information on both the DYNON SkyView and the VAL
INS-429 at the same time. This way I have two independent external displays
for my G430W, one TSO'd and the other non-TSO'd. Since I fly real IFR I did
this as part of my multiple redundancy quest not just to make sure I
complied with the FAA.
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 11:46 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:
[quote] 12/14/2015
Hello Al, either proud or slightly overwhelmed. I’ll need a few days
(weeks?) to digest both Galin’s post and Mark’s response.
OC
PS: A person may be able to handle one slippery eel. A person may be even
able to handle one whole bucket full of slippery eels. But
when it comes to handling many buckets of slippery eels even the most sure
handed person is going to be challenged.
====================================
*From:* Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2015 11:07 AM
*To:* kis-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* Re: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB
into Havana Cuba.
Wow, a post that would make OC Baker proud. Thanks.
Sent from my iPhone
===============================================
On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:36 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Adding to what others have said about IFR equipment certification, even
though "TSO'd" equipment is not required for an EAB, in order to legally
fly GPS IFR the GPS unit it must be certified to TSO-C129 or equivalent as
per AIM 1-1-19. This requirement specifically applies "*for any IFR
operation*" thus making it applicable to EAB aircraft.
The TSO covers much more than just an accurate GPS position source but
also includes the database(s) and error (RAIM) checking. If you can
demonstrate your GPS complies with the requirements of TSO-C129 then you
can use it as a GPS navigation source for your EAB aircraft. However, you
will probably find that if you went through the extensive paperwork
required to prove your GPS complies with the TSO you might as well obtain
the TSO, increase the number of aircraft you can sell to and the point will
be moot.
Here are some links that cover this specific issue:
https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_content.aspx?cID=38&sID=247&preview=true
A good discussion on this topic can be found on the DYNON forum:
http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1362597418
ADS-B "OUT" position sources don't have to be TSO's but must still meet
the equivalent (14CFR-91.227 amongst others) requirement. The position
source (doesn't have to be a GPS based) manufacturer must document it meets
the requirements and again is true for all aircraft, not just EAB. The
Catch-22 is that certificated aircraft require an authorization from the
aircraft manufacturer for installation and they all have required TSO'd
equipment. But nothing says you can't install a non TSO'd ADS-B position
source that meets the requirements in a certificated aircraft using an
FAA-337 as long as you have compliance documentation, an A&P or avionics
repair station signs off on it and the local FSDO agrees.
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%2020-165.pdf
.
Now for navigation based on VOR, LOC, ILS and NDB's the TSO requirement
does not apply to EAB aircraft. Remember, VOR's, NDB's and ILS' were in use
long before TSO certification even existed and some older aircraft still
have working non TSO'd equipment that came with the airplane.
=================================
From: M Ketteing
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 10:43 AM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into
Havana Cuba.
Good thing the the AIM and Advisory Circulars (and Dynon web page) are
informational and not regulations. Or your "system" would not be legal for
use IFR. Keep in mind that for the TSO-C129 GPS to meet the TSO it must be
connected to an approved CDI, etc. So you would need to look up what CDI's
have been approved (when Garmin got the TSO they made a required list) for
your make and model GPS and use one of those. Dynon is not one of those,
hence the TSO-C129 is not valid for your installation.
As the owner/builder you do need to make sure your "system" meets the
applicable requirements of TSO-C129 or similar but absolutely there is no
regulation that it needs to be certified to meet TSO-C129 or others nor is
there a requirement to prove it, unless there is an enforcement issue due
to a demonstrated problem.
The whole point being is the owner/builder/pilot is the responsible party
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