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n520tx(at)gmail.com
Guest
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:39 am    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to offer prior to
first flight of my 10 ?

I've been through first flight once already with my 7a. The 10 seems
different though. I've already done 6 hrs training in the factory 10
with Mike.

Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations from those that
have been through this already ? Anything you would have done
differently ?

Thanks !

--Ron

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rene(at)felker.com
Guest
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:10 am    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
My only got ya.....elevator trim. I had it trimmed to where the trim tabs were aligned with the elevator. Needs to be trimmed nose down. I had a pretty big pitch up on take off and had to use both hands to set the trim.....one to hold the stick down and one to push the trim button on the stick. It was an exciting 2-3 seconds.

Rene'
801-721-6080

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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:12 am    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
A few notes:
- If you installed air dams in front of #1 and #2 cylinders, remove them for the first few flights. After that you can experiment with them, but I suspect they will end up fairly short.
- Have between half and 3/4 tanks.
- Really verify neutral elevator trim. Neutral defined as trim tab in line with the elevator trailing edge, not the mid travel position. Have this position marked on the elevator trim indicator. Use this for takeoff pitch trim.
- Verify elevator trim travel is correct (tab trailing edge down for nose up, tab trailing edge up for nose down)
- On takeoff roll verify airspeed alive. Abort the takeoff if not.
- After takeoff and clear of trees and obstacles, reduce RPM to 2500. This will be far more power than you need and will mitigate CHT rise on this first hard run.
- On the first flight, after at 4500' or so, shift fuel tanks (boost pump on) and verify fuel pressure and flow before turning off the boost pump.
- Do your first stall at 4500' or so in landing configuration (power at idle and full flaps). On stall recovery immediately retract the flaps so you don't end up over speed with them out (this is amazing easy to do in an RV-10 so be careful).
- Defer things like AOA and EFIS compass calibration until later flights.
- Land after 20 min or so. Decompress, pull the cowl and inspect. Go have a beer.

Carl

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jdriggs49(at)MSN.COM
Guest
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:19 am    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
Yeah, make sure your elevator is centered before take-off. Won't say how I know THAT one! 😜

Sent from my iPad

Quote:
On Oct 6, 2016, at 9:45 AM, Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com> wrote:



Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to offer prior to first flight of my 10 ?

I've been through first flight once already with my 7a. The 10 seems different though. I've already done 6 hrs training in the factory 10 with Mike.

Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations from those that have been through this already ? Anything you would have done differently ?

Thanks !

--Ron







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Lenny Iszak



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 270
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Advice Reply with quote
Don't forget to set up the alarms in your efis correctly. An uncalibrated AOA yelling at you on your entire first flight won't be much fun.

Put some weight in the back for the first couple of flights.

Lenny

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2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 500 hrs
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sportav8r(at)gmail.com
Guest
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:10 pm    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
Just curious - how many of you would make your first -10 flight off a 2100 foot grass strip?  

Been flying my 6A out of the back yard for 900+ hours now, but did my first flights out of LWB with 7001 feet of asphalt and crash trucks available.  Daydreaming of the day I finish the 10 and whether I would be foolish not to disassemble it and truck it 40 miles on a roll-back for the big day.  
Insurance company might have their own thoughts on the matter.

-Bill Boyd

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)>

Yeah, make sure your elevator is centered before take-off. Won't say how I know THAT one! 😜

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 6, 2016, at 9:45 AM, Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)>
>
> Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to offer prior to first flight of my 10 ?
>
> I've been through first flight once already with my 7a. The 10 seems different though. I've already done 6 hrs training in the factory 10 with Mike.
>
> Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations from those that have been through this already ?  Anything you would have done differently ?
>
> Thanks !
>
> --Ron
>
>
>
>
>


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rene(at)felker.com
Guest
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:31 pm    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
What altitude?

What off airport options are there?

I am a chicken when it comes to short runways…….so I know I would not do it, but we all have our own comfort zone.  I also don’t believe that you want to add any risk factors you don’t have to for your first flight.

Rene'
801-721-6080

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2016 2:08 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Advice


Just curious - how many of you would make your first -10 flight off a 2100 foot grass strip?


Been flying my 6A out of the back yard for 900+ hours now, but did my first flights out of LWB with 7001 feet of asphalt and crash trucks available. Daydreaming of the day I finish the 10 and whether I would be foolish not to disassemble it and truck it 40 miles on a roll-back for the big day.



Insurance company might have their own thoughts on the matter.


-Bill Boyd


On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)>

Yeah, make sure your elevator is centered before take-off. Won't say how I know THAT one! 😜

Sent from my iPad

Quote:
On Oct 6, 2016, at 9:45 AM, Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

--> RV10-List message posted by: Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)>

Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to offer prior to first flight of my 10 ?

I've been through first flight once already with my 7a. The 10 seems different though. I've already done 6 hrs training in the factory 10 with Mike.

Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations from those that have been through this already ? Anything you would have done differently ?

Thanks !

--Ron



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Dave Saylor



Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Posts: 210
Location: GILROY, CA
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:58 pm    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
Ron,

My advice would be to keep it short.  Have a plan, like where you're going to fly and how high.  Don't try to fix anything on the first flight.  You'll already be at least a little distracted so wait to tune things up until later.
After that, I usually plan to fix/adjust/measure one item per flight.  As time goes on you'll get more done but initially I like to focus on just flying and observing.  Make a tweak, land, access.
The comment about some weight in back is a good one.  25-30 lbs in the baggage makes for a nice flare with pretty neutral stick.
--Dave
On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)>

Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to offer prior to first flight of my 10 ?

I've been through first flight once already with my 7a. The 10 seems different though. I've already done 6 hrs training in the factory 10 with Mike.

Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations from those that have been through this already ?  Anything you would have done differently ?

Thanks !

--Ron


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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
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rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================





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KWVI
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
I wouldn't do it. The danger of a fuel system malfunction or an engine issue are too high to try for a dead stock landing on a short grass runway. An aborted takeoff point would have to be less than 700' probably. If nothing bad happens it's a non-issue. Hope for the best, plan for the worst. 2100' grass is not planning for the worst.

Jesse SaintSaint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 6, 2016, at 4:25 PM, Rene <rene(at)felker.com (rene(at)felker.com)> wrote:
Quote:
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
What altitude?

What off airport options are there?

I am a chicken when it comes to short runways…….so I know I would not do it, but we all have our own comfort zone. I also don’t believe that you want to add any risk factors you don’t have to for your first flight.

Rene'
801-721-6080

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2016 2:08 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Advice


Just curious - how many of you would make your first -10 flight off a 2100 foot grass strip?


Been flying my 6A out of the back yard for 900+ hours now, but did my first flights out of LWB with 7001 feet of asphalt and crash trucks available. Daydreaming of the day I finish the 10 and whether I would be foolish not to disassemble it and truck it 40 miles on a roll-back for the big day.



Insurance company might have their own thoughts on the matter.


-Bill Boyd


On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)>

Yeah, make sure your elevator is centered before take-off. Won't say how I know THAT one! 😜

Sent from my iPad

Quote:
On Oct 6, 2016, at 9:45 AM, Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

--> RV10-List message posted by: Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)>

Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to offer prior to first flight of my 10 ?

I've been through first flight once already with my 7a. The 10 seems different though. I've already done 6 hrs training in the factory 10 with Mike.

Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations from those that have been through this already ? Anything you would have done differently ?

Thanks !

--Ron



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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
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-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================



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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:49 pm    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
I built and live on a 3300' grass strip (with obstructions).  I also had 1000+ hours flying off the strip. Not a whole lot of off field options (and I'm a bit of a connoisseur of such things).  My tech advisor and airport manager suggested doing the first flight elsewhere.  I was hesitant because it means doing the final assembly elsewhere.  The roughness of the field is what made me go elsewhere, thinking " if something was amiss on the roll, would I detect it easily given all the new sensations"?

A long smooth strip with flat surroundings is a very good  thing... but my '10 flew beautifully and easily from the beginning so no real lesson there.  If the engine runs and the pitch trim is under control - no problem.

Final assembly took a month or two longer than I anticipated despite working on it 7 days a week - should have kept it to 5/week.  I did get a chance to work  in a hangar along side an A&P - great learning experience.

Best of all, I had to fly from my backyard strip to the test strip each day.  I was never a better takeoff/landing pilot.  Three months of 6-7 days a week tailwheel flying  = proficiency.  You pros may take it for granted but flying daily takes it  up to another level - great prep for an initial flight even though the '10 has little to do with my 'ol Maule.  Do that if you can.

Bill "thrilling to the view thru my borescope to the delight of the mosquitoes" Watson



On 10/6/2016 4:07 PM, Bill Boyd wrote:

Quote:
Just curious - how many of you would make your first -10 flight off a 2100 foot grass strip?  

Been flying my 6A out of the back yard for 900+ hours now, but did my first flights out of LWB with 7001 feet of asphalt and crash trucks available.  Daydreaming of the day I finish the 10 and whether I would be foolish not to disassemble it and truck it 40 miles on a roll-back for the big day.  


Insurance company might have their own thoughts on the matter.

-Bill Boyd



On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)>

Yeah, make sure your elevator is centered before take-off. Won't say how I know THAT one! 😜

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 6, 2016, at 9:45 AM, Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)>
>
> Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to offer prior to first flight of my 10 ?
>
> I've been through first flight once already with my 7a. The 10 seems different though. I've already done 6 hrs training in the factory 10 with Mike.
>
> Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations from those that have been through this already ?  Anything you would have done differently ?
>
> Thanks !
>
> --Ron
>
>
>
>
>


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amekler



Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Posts: 164
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:43 pm    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
I watched a Lancair test pilot fly a first flight
He ran the airplane with it tied down and people holding the wings down for 2 minutes at full throttle
He said if the engine runs for 2 minutes he can make it back to the airport
Alan

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 6, 2016, at 6:46 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:
[quote] I built and live on a 3300' grass strip (with obstructions). I also had 1000+ hours flying off the strip

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lyleapgmc



Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Posts: 57
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:07 pm    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
And it might well have been the last two minutes that the engine would run.  History is not a good predictor of engine life.
If the OP is concerned about making the first flight from a short grass strip he should not do it. 

On 10/6/2016 4:40 PM, Metrocast wrote:

Quote:
 I watched a Lancair test pilot fly a first flight
He ran the airplane with it tied down and people holding the wings down for 2 minutes at full throttle
He said if the engine runs for 2 minutes he can make it back to the airport
Alan

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 6, 2016, at 6:46 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:


Quote:
I built and live on a 3300' grass strip (with obstructions).  I also had 1000+ hours flying off the strip. Not a whole lot of off field options (and I'm a bit of a connoisseur of such things).  My tech advisor and airport manager suggested doing the first flight elsewhere.  I was hesitant because it means doing the final assembly elsewhere.  The roughness of the field is what made me go elsewhere, thinking " if something was amiss on the roll, would I detect it easily given all the new sensations"?

A long smooth strip with flat surroundings is a very good  thing... but my '10 flew beautifully and easily from the beginning so no real lesson there.  If the engine runs and the pitch trim is under control - no problem.

Final assembly took a month or two longer than I anticipated despite working on it 7 days a week - should have kept it to 5/week.  I did get a chance to work  in a hangar along side an A&P - great learning experience.

Best of all, I had to fly from my backyard strip to the test strip each day.  I was never a better takeoff/landing pilot.  Three months of 6-7 days a week tailwheel flying  = proficiency.  You pros may take it for granted but flying daily takes it  up to another level - great prep for an initial flight even though the '10 has little to do with my 'ol Maule.  Do that if you can.

Bill "thrilling to the view thru my borescope to the delight of the mosquitoes" Watson



On 10/6/2016 4:07 PM, Bill Boyd wrote:

Quote:
Just curious - how many of you would make your first -10 flight off a 2100 foot grass strip?  

Been flying my 6A out of the back yard for 900+ hours now, but did my first flights out of LWB with 7001 feet of asphalt and crash trucks available.  Daydreaming of the day I finish the 10 and whether I would be foolish not to disassemble it and truck it 40 miles on a roll-back for the big day.  


Insurance company might have their own thoughts on the matter.

-Bill Boyd



On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)>

Yeah, make sure your elevator is centered before take-off. Won't say how I know THAT one! 😜

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 6, 2016, at 9:45 AM, Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)>
>
> Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to offer prior to first flight of my 10 ?
>
> I've been through first flight once already with my 7a. The 10 seems different though. I've already done 6 hrs training in the factory 10 with Mike.
>
> Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations from those that have been through this already ?  Anything you would have done differently ?
>
> Thanks !
>
> --Ron
>
>
>
>
>


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n520tx(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:23 am    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
Thanks for all the hints ! Looks like the most popular is to ensure the
elevator trim is set up correctly. I played the rigging game a couple
weeks back and it has the required travel.

FAA guys are coming up from the SA FSDO next Wednesday for the AWC
inspection - gonna be a weekend of quadruple checking everything over !

--Ron
On 10/06/2016 11:35 AM, Ron Walker wrote:
Quote:


Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to offer prior
to first flight of my 10 ?

I've been through first flight once already with my 7a. The 10 seems
different though. I've already done 6 hrs training in the factory 10
with Mike.

Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations from those that
have been through this already ? Anything you would have done
differently ?

Thanks !

--Ron



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sportav8r(at)gmail.com
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:32 am    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
I appreciate the input, guys. Sorry to drift the thread away from the
original question about recommendations, caveats, and preparations. This
decision is many years away for me at the pace I /have a kitchen pass to/
work.

As to Lyle's point, I will be making thousands of subsequent flights from a
short grass strip regardless of where the first few were done. For each of
those flights, history still will not be a predictor. I will be a more
experienced RV-10 pilot later on, true. But the engine and systems will be
more worn with each, and any eventual failures will be more imminent as
time builds.

My concerns are more about the piloting challenges (for the inexperienced)
of operating the 10 from a short grass field than about the remote
likelihood of mechanical failure. How hard would it likely have been for
y'all to nail a decent short/soft field landing as a low time -10 pilot
with all the other first-flight things going on and only a few hours with a
transition instructor under your belt? How similar is 6A fixed pitch
performance to 10 CS on landing? How well can I expect my 900 hours here
to translate from the one model to the other when it's do or die time?
Things like that...

-Stormy

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:04 PM, Lyle Peterson <lyleap(at)centurylink.net>
wrote:

[quote] And it might well have been the last two minutes that the engine would
run. History is not a good predictor of engine life.

If the OP is concerned about making the first flight from a short grass
strip he should not do it.

On 10/6/2016 4:40 PM, Metrocast wrote:

I watched a Lancair test pilot fly a first flight
He ran the airplane with it tied down and people holding the wings down
for 2 minutes at full throttle
He said if the engine runs for 2 minutes he can make it back to the airport
Alan

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 6, 2016, at 6:46 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> wrote:

I built and live on a 3300' grass strip (with obstructions). I also had
1000+ hours flying off the strip. Not a whole lot of off field options (and
I'm a bit of a connoisseur of such things). My tech advisor and airport
manager suggested doing the first flight elsewhere. I was hesitant because
it means doing the final assembly elsewhere. The roughness of the field is
what made me go elsewhere, thinking " if something was amiss on the roll,
would I detect it easily given all the new sensations"?

A long smooth strip with flat surroundings is a very good thing... but my
'10 flew beautifully and easily from the beginning so no real lesson
there. If the engine runs and the pitch trim is under control - no problem.

Final assembly took a month or two longer than I anticipated despite
working on it 7 days a week - should have kept it to 5/week. I did get a
chance to work in a hangar along side an A&P - great learning experience

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Kelly McMullen



Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:02 am    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
DAR/FSDO inspection will focus on paperwork and that the controls are free and correct. I had to fix an issue of binding that could not occur with pilot's legs in place. They will want to know you have an engine run or two, no leaks, all the required placards and forms filled out correctly. So don't sweat the mechanical so much, other than for your own protection. It is unlikely to be a factor in the licensing. There are lots of opinions on "hi-speed" taxi runs. I did a couple to about 40 kts, more to check handling than anything else. Not to full power. Your first full power will surprise you with the acceleration. Suggest that you only use 0 degrees flaps for first few few takeoffs, until you realize that a half flap takeoff requires starting flap retraction within the first 50 ft of altitude to prevent overspeed.  Strongly consider the additional pilot program to have help and experience of a pilot that meets the qualifications. The first flight you are too busy to observe everything, much less traffic. I found it didn't take away from my experience doing first flight, and actually helped significantly.

-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm

On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 3:58 AM, Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)>

Thanks for all the hints ! Looks like the most popular is to ensure the elevator trim is set up correctly. I played the rigging game a couple weeks back and it has the required travel.

FAA guys are coming up from the SA FSDO next Wednesday for the AWC inspection - gonna be a weekend of quadruple checking everything over !

--Ron


On 10/06/2016 11:35 AM, Ron Walker wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)>

Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to offer prior to first flight of my 10 ?

I've been through first flight once already with my 7a. The 10 seems different though. I've already done 6 hrs training in the factory 10 with Mike.

Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations from those that have been through this already ?  Anything you would have done differently ?

Thanks !

--Ron



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Kelly McMullen



Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:02 am    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
I think you would find the extra weight and inertia of the -10  a challenge in that short of a runway, with less braking available than pavement.

My -10 lands very much like my Mooney, and is about same wt. At 65 hours in the -10, I still can't land it as short as the Mooney. Do you really want to be doing a landing with little margin for error on your first flight, when you have little experience with its low speed handling, wi??th only a few stalls and small amount of slow flight in it? I'm sure you will be fine there once you have a bit of time figuring out what is needed for a short field with little to no braking available. Just don't think it is advisable for first few flights.

-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm

On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 4:41 AM, Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com (sportav8r(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I appreciate the input, guys.  Sorry to drift the thread away from the original question about recommendations, caveats, and preparations.  This decision is many years away for me at the pace I /have a kitchen pass to/ work. 

As to Lyle's point, I will be making thousands of subsequent flights from a short grass strip regardless of where the first few were done.  For each of those flights, history still will not be a predictor.  I will be a more experienced RV-10 pilot later on, true.  But the engine and systems will be more worn with each, and any eventual failures will be more imminent as time builds.
My concerns are more about the piloting challenges (for the inexperienced) of operating the 10 from a short grass field than about the remote likelihood of mechanical failure. How hard would it likely have been for y'all to nail a decent short/soft field landing as a low time -10 pilot with all the other first-flight things going on and only a few hours with a transition instructor under your belt?  How similar is 6A fixed pitch performance to 10 CS on landing?  How well can I expect my 900 hours here to translate from the one model to the other when it's do or die time?  Things like that...
-Stormy
On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:04 PM, Lyle Peterson <lyleap(at)centurylink.net (lyleap(at)centurylink.net)> wrote:
Quote:

And it might well have been the last two minutes that the engine would run.  History is not a good predictor of engine life.
If the OP is concerned about making the first flight from a short grass strip he should not do it. 

On 10/6/2016 4:40 PM, Metrocast wrote:

Quote:
 I watched a Lancair test pilot fly a first flight
He ran the airplane with it tied down and people holding the wings down for 2 minutes at full throttle
He said if the engine runs for 2 minutes he can make it back to the airport
Alan

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 6, 2016, at 6:46 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:


Quote:
I built and live on a 3300' grass strip (with obstructions).  I also had 1000+ hours flying off the strip. Not a whole lot of off field options (and I'm a bit of a connoisseur of such things).  My tech advisor and airport manager suggested doing the first flight elsewhere.  I was hesitant because it means doing the final assembly elsewhere.  The roughness of the field is what made me go elsewhere, thinking " if something was amiss on the roll, would I detect it easily given all the new sensations"?

A long smooth strip with flat surroundings is a very good  thing... but my '10 flew beautifully and easily from the beginning so no real lesson there.  If the engine runs and the pitch trim is under control - no problem.

Final assembly took a month or two longer than I anticipated despite working on it 7 days a week - should have kept it to 5/week.  I did get a chance to work  in a hangar along side an A&P - great learning experience.

Best of all, I had to fly from my backyard strip to the test strip each day.  I was never a better takeoff/landing pilot.  Three months of 6-7 days a week tailwheel flying  = proficiency.  You pros may take it for granted but flying daily takes it  up to another level - great prep for an initial flight even though the '10 has little to do with my 'ol Maule.  Do that if you can.

Bill "thrilling to the view thru my borescope to the delight of the mosquitoes" Watson



On 10/6/2016 4:07 PM, Bill Boyd wrote:

Quote:
Just curious - how many of you would make your first -10 flight off a 2100 foot grass strip?  

Been flying my 6A out of the back yard for 900+ hours now, but did my first flights out of LWB with 7001 feet of asphalt and crash trucks available.  Daydreaming of the day I finish the 10 and whether I would be foolish not to disassemble it and truck it 40 miles on a roll-back for the big day.  


Insurance company might have their own thoughts on the matter.

-Bill Boyd



On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)>

Yeah, make sure your elevator is centered before take-off. Won't say how I know THAT one! 😜

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 6, 2016, at 9:45 AM, Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)>
>
> Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to offer prior to first flight of my 10 ?
>
> I've been through first flight once already with my 7a. The 10 seems different though. I've already done 6 hrs training in the factory 10 with Mike.
>
> Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations from those that have been through this already ?  Anything you would have done differently ?
>
> Thanks !
>
> --Ron
>
>
>
>
>


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hotwheels



Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 240
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Advice Reply with quote
Expect the unexpected and you won't be surprised...

Orbiting over the airport above pattern altitude for the first couple hours always seemed like a good idea.

Pitch trim is critical in the -10 and I can totally relate to the comment about having to immediately push forward and trim right after first takeoff. I think there was some test flight doc that recommended slight trim up, but adding any up trim was totally not good, at least for me.

Plan on using the entire runway the first couple of flights and lay off the brakes. Gentle inputs and minimal control inputs. I would hesitate to do anything short or soft field until you get a good sense of how your ride behaves.

I had a great ground crew on the radio and their presence really made a difference in my first-flight comfort level. Ask them to drill you on emergency procedures beforehand.

Have fun and good luck! I look forward to hearing about your experience.

Cheers,
Jay

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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:11 am    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
I've found the '10 to be an amazingly easy plane to fly and particularly sweet to land. 

I would be confident operating it off a close to sea level short strip  like you have if the approaches are unobstructed and if the overrun is not lethal.  A slope would help.  Obstructions directly impact the effective length - 10X the height is my ROT.

On 10/7/2016 7:41 AM, Bill Boyd wrote:

Quote:
I appreciate the input, guys.  Sorry to drift the thread away from the original question about recommendations, caveats, and preparations.  This decision is many years away for me at the pace I /have a kitchen pass to/ work. 

As to Lyle's point, I will be making thousands of subsequent flights from a short grass strip regardless of where the first few were done.  For each of those flights, history still will not be a predictor.  I will be a more experienced RV-10 pilot later on, true.  But the engine and systems will be more worn with each, and any eventual failures will be more imminent as time builds.


My concerns are more about the piloting challenges (for the inexperienced) of operating the 10 from a short grass field than about the remote likelihood of mechanical failure. How hard would it likely have been for y'all to nail a decent short/soft field landing as a low time -10 pilot with all the other first-flight things going on and only a few hours with a transition instructor under your belt?  How similar is 6A fixed pitch performance to 10 CS on landing?  How well can I expect my 900 hours here to translate from the one model to the other when it's do or die time?  Things like that...


-Stormy


On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:04 PM, Lyle Peterson <lyleap(at)centurylink.net (lyleap(at)centurylink.net)> wrote:
Quote:

And it might well have been the last two minutes that the engine would run.  History is not a good predictor of engine life.
If the OP is concerned about making the first flight from a short grass strip he should not do it. 

On 10/6/2016 4:40 PM, Metrocast wrote:

Quote:
 I watched a Lancair test pilot fly a first flight
He ran the airplane with it tied down and people holding the wings down for 2 minutes at full throttle
He said if the engine runs for 2 minutes he can make it back to the airport
Alan

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 6, 2016, at 6:46 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:


Quote:
I built and live on a 3300' grass strip (with obstructions).  I also had 1000+ hours flying off the strip. Not a whole lot of off field options (and I'm a bit of a connoisseur of such things).  My tech advisor and airport manager suggested doing the first flight elsewhere.  I was hesitant because it means doing the final assembly elsewhere.  The roughness of the field is what made me go elsewhere, thinking " if something was amiss on the roll, would I detect it easily given all the new sensations"?

A long smooth strip with flat surroundings is a very good  thing... but my '10 flew beautifully and easily from the beginning so no real lesson there.  If the engine runs and the pitch trim is under control - no problem.

Final assembly took a month or two longer than I anticipated despite working on it 7 days a week - should have kept it to 5/week.  I did get a chance to work  in a hangar along side an A&P - great learning experience.

Best of all, I had to fly from my backyard strip to the test strip each day.  I was never a better takeoff/landing pilot.  Three months of 6-7 days a week tailwheel flying  = proficiency.  You pros may take it for granted but flying daily takes it  up to another level - great prep for an initial flight even though the '10 has little to do with my 'ol Maule.  Do that if you can.

Bill "thrilling to the view thru my borescope to the delight of the mosquitoes" Watson



On 10/6/2016 4:07 PM, Bill Boyd wrote:

Quote:
Just curious - how many of you would make your first -10 flight off a 2100 foot grass strip?  

Been flying my 6A out of the back yard for 900+ hours now, but did my first flights out of LWB with 7001 feet of asphalt and crash trucks available.  Daydreaming of the day I finish the 10 and whether I would be foolish not to disassemble it and truck it 40 miles on a roll-back for the big day.  


Insurance company might have their own thoughts on the matter.

-Bill Boyd



On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)>

Yeah, make sure your elevator is centered before take-off. Won't say how I know THAT one! 😜

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 6, 2016, at 9:45 AM, Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Ron Walker <n520tx(at)gmail.com (n520tx(at)gmail.com)>
>
> Posing the question for any sound advice you may have to offer prior to first flight of my 10 ?
>
> I've been through first flight once already with my 7a. The 10 seems different though. I've already done 6 hrs training in the factory 10 with Mike.
>
> Anything specific to be aware of ? Any recommendations from those that have been through this already ?  Anything you would have done differently ?
>
> Thanks !
>
> --Ron
>
>
>
>
>


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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
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rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================













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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:15 am    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
As an old RCer, our last check before an initial takeoff was to hold the nose up to see if the carburetored 2 stroker would keep running after rotation.  It often killed  the engine - fuel pickup stuck or misinstalled, mixture too lean, vent screwed up, throttle clevis falls off, whatever.

I SO wanted to do that to the '10 before takeoff!

On 10/6/2016 7:40 PM, Metrocast wrote:

Quote:
 I watched a Lancair test pilot fly a first flight
He ran the airplane with it tied down and people holding the wings down for 2 minutes at full throttle
He said if the engine runs for 2 minutes he can make it back to the airport
Alan



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maca2790



Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 59
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:11 pm    Post subject: Advice Reply with quote
I think the High Power Run for 2 mins is a good Idea. I had my 10 Tied to my Hi Lux Pick up when I did my run.
I didn’t find all the fuel leaks though. The Fuel Spider has a Pressure take off nipple that I didn’t realise has a restrictor in it and is meant to
connect to a Pressure sensing Fuel Flow Gauge.  I didn’t discover it was leaking fuel until during the 3rd flight. I smelt the fuel during flight and so I did
an emergency decent to the runway and pulled the cowling off. I could see the stain from the 100 LL Avgas down. The side of the crankcase.

As for Elevator Trim. My 10 ended up quite nose heavy and needs 30lbs of Ballast in the Baggage compartment when operating with one Pilot on board.
Even with the CG almost full forward and with a single pilot the elevator trim needs to be about 1/16 “ nose down on the trim tabs or it will climb quite nose
high and the loading on the stick to hold the nose down will get quite high. 

Also on landing with just myself on board I only use ½ flap as Full Flap will make it hard to get the nose up during the flare and hold off. The first time
I tried a full flap landing with just myself on board it landed very flat and I was really worried it would touch down nose first. I estimate that maybe it was only
a few inches off being a nose wheel first touchdown.
With about 75 hours on VH-DUU now I can reliably get it down within about 1000 ft on a sealed runway with half flap. With a full load I use full flap to get the touchdown
Speed a bit slower and it is a bit harder to stop and the brakes do demand quite high pedal pressure.

On about the 5th flight I didn’t get the Weather before I took off from Rwy 35 as it was CAVOK and a beautiful day! After about 1 hour of flying I noticed that the wind
had changed quite a bit and I discovered what was 330 at 6 knots had become 270 at 20 knots. Since I didn’t want to bend the Aircraft
I had just built, Bathurst NSW has a dirt cross a strip,  Rwy 28 which I made use of. And so my 10 had its first unsealed Op!  Thank heavens for cross strips!

With the flaps in the reflex position I rotate at 65 knots and then climb out at 117 to 120 knots. Fuel flow should be at around 24.7 to25 gph at full power.
For landing, half flap on Base at around 80 knots,  Final back to 75 knots and then over the threshold let the speed bleed off in the flare so that you touch down
Somewhere below 70, say 65 knots. You’ll find the 10 very nice to land and very responsive to the rudder for cross wind ops.

So to summarise , check the fuel system over well, maybe even tie the tail down and run the engine with Aircraft in a climb attitude at full power for a few mins.
Keep the Elevator trim at neutral or even slightly nose down, have a cross strip available and don’t go too far away from the Airport for the first few flights.

Cheers

John MacCallum
VH-DUU
RV 10 # 41016



From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson
Sent: Saturday, 8 October 2016 4:12 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Advice

As an old RCer, our last check before an initial takeoff was to hold the nose up to see if the carburetored 2 stroker would keep running after rotation. It often killed the engine - fuel pickup stuck or misinstalled, mixture too lean, vent screwed up, throttle clevis falls off, whatever.

I SO wanted to do that to the '10 before takeoff!

On 10/6/2016 7:40 PM, Metrocast wrote:
Quote:

I watched a Lancair test pilot fly a first flight

He ran the airplane with it tied down and people holding the wings down for 2 minutes at full throttle

He said if the engine runs for 2 minutes he can make it back to the airport

Alan



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