Actually, most of the above becomes clear when you follow FJ's notes.
- The F650 is permanently attached to the F624 (3), F622 (2), and F606 with pop-rivets.
- The F649 is attached by screws and nutplates to the F650 (2), F605 (2), F622 (2), and baggage compartment floor (2).
- The top flanges of both parts need to be notched to clear the F624. I actually cut the F649 level with the aft edge of the F624.
- The front of the F649's bottom flange is notched to clear the F605.
- The aft of the bottom flange of the F650 (not bent yet) needs to be notched to clear the F606, and also the F606C.
- The bottom flange of the F650 goes below the baggage compartment floor, whilst the bottom flange of the F649 goes above the floor.
RV-list message posted by Randall Henderson: The pre-bent flanges of F-650 do not match either at bulkhead F-606 or at F-622. The problem is that F-650 has the wrong angle on the corner where the two pre-bend flanges meet. I just used the hand-seamer to re-bend the flange on the F-650.
RV-list message posted by chester razer <crazer@egyptian.net>
> Is the bottom bend of F-649 meant to sit under the F647 Baggage
Floor or on top of it?
The easy way is for the sides to sit on top of the floor panels.
The other option is you can make all the "returns" of the floor panels
and side panels disappear for a nice finished look.
However, you have to make the decision at the beginning because once you begin drilling holes and installing nut plates the holes won't line up if you change your mind. This also holds true for the floor panels and the baggage compartment bulkhead (bottom flange)
RV-list message posted by gil@rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander)
>1) Does F650 overlap F649 and both attach to F624 via AN515 screws?
Yes, but the other way around, since the F-649 is the removable piece, you might as well put it on top.
>2) Do you trim the large flanges of both the F649 and F650 where they meet at F624 to:
> a) Butt flush with F624?
> b) Overlap each other by notching both F649 and F650?
I presume you are referring to the baggage floor flange at the bottom of the parts.
I angled both flanges back to give a neat 60 degree angle at the bend. I cut back the F-649 floor flange so that it stopped at the F-624 edge.
I made it so that the F-650 (the fixed piece) had its flange under the floor panels, and the removable F-649 has its flange above the floor panel. I cut the F-649 so that it slides backwards over the flap actuator tube (electric flaps version) per the video.
I have also seen this F-649 piece made such that the floor flange is under the floor panels, and the F-649 panel now must slide downwards over the flap tube. If you are going to carpet the baggage floor, I think the way I did it is a little easier. If you don't carpet this area, then the second way will look a little neater. If you are building the manual flaps version, then the flap cross tube is ahead of the F-605 bulkhead, and the second way would probably be better.
FJ implies that the F649 goes outside the inside flange of the F605. This is different from what GeorgeO does in the video -- freezing the video at the right moment shows that George cut a slot in the top of the F649 for the F605 inboard flange to fit into. I think George's way is superior -- easier to fit, and looks better too. I would have done it this way, but I didn't discover this until after I'd drilled the nutplate mounting holes in the F649.
I put the nutplates to attach the F649 to F650 on the F624, then trimmed the F649 just aft of the F624.
When drilling the screw and pop-rivet holes in the F649 and F650, be aware of the location of the tooling holes in the F622 -- I managed to drill a hole in the F650 which matched up exactly with the tooling hole :-( Also, be aware that the F649 doesn't overlap the F622 by much at the front -- you'll need to put the screw hole within ½" of the outboard edge if you want to hit the F622.
FJ's notes (in his Removing the Fuselage from the Jig section) on attaching the F650 rear flange to the F606 seem unnecessarily complicated. Or maybe I've missed something?
Check the position of nutplate holes and the F606C before drilling the F650 to the F606.
Don't forget the nutplate in the middle (as well as near the top) of the F628 to support the F651.
Don't install until the last moment... they get in the way a little.
The nuts and washer on the aft end of the cable can (and need to be) be removed so that the cable can be fed through the plastic grommets.
Don't install it until the last minute... it'll probably get in the way. You can't fully install it until after the F609 has been attached.
Cut the washers (8) from the 2"x½"x.040 strip. But first, drill the #30 holes... it's much easier that way.
Pre-drill the UHMW strips as per the plans. Cleco the F651/F652 together, then clamp the large UHMW in place and drill/cleco it to the top half of the wall. Then use this as a guide to clamp the narrow UHMW in place and drill. Turn the assembly over to mark the location of the hole on the UHMW. Drill this hole 3/16", then use a knife to cut a slot from the hole to the edge.
I didn't like the idea of drilling a large hole through the F605 where all the heavy angles are, so I ran the static line around the F605, just underneath the F657 gusset. I didn't like it, but couldn't see any way to avoid running it through the F604. As suggested in My bulkhead construction page, I drilled/cut a notch in the top of the F604F, then made a corresponding cutout in the F604E.
Don't install it until you've installed the F656 gussets.
Don't drill the bolt holes to mount the rudder pedals until you've sat in the airplane. I'm 5'7", so I moved the pedals about ¾" towards the pilot from the position marked in the plans. Now that I can sit in the airplane, the location given in the plans would be much better.
I left fitting the pedals until I'd got the seats in place so that I could get the right position for the pedals. In the end, I found that 'as far forward as possible' was right for me (6'1" tall, lanky build). 'As far forward as possible' turns out to be 3 1/8" from the firewall to the front of the mounting blocks... the front of the middle block is up against the aft side of the firewall recess (Van's standard one).
Louise Coats, whose pedal setup seemed to fit me fine, emailed me: The end of the bearing block is 2¾" from the firewall. There is a bit of al angle that stops it going any further forward that this and I don't think you would want to go any further forward than that anyway.
To drill the bolt holes to the longerons you will need a right-angle drill or (as I used) Avery's close-quarters drill kit. I pushed some 3/32" ID/3/16" OD bushings into the bottoms of the holes in the UHMW blocks and drilled through those to drill pilot holes, then opened those out to 3/16". That worked very well.
RV-List message posted by: "Robert Acker"<rvsixer@pacbell.net>: GBI made a customer firewall recess 2.5" deep for me (the minimum depth needed to clear the governor). This allows moving the rudder bar further forward than the "stock" recess.
RV-List message posted by: "Stephen J. Soule"<SSoule@pfclaw.com>: I don't know how close to the firewall you can get, but my rudder pedals move a maximum of 3½ inches relative to each other.
Note that in the neutral position the right pedals (in the front holes of the mounting blocks) slope back a little, and the left pedals (in the rear holes) slope forward a little so that the bottoms of both pedals are lined up.
RV-List message posted by: KBoatri144@aol.com (Kyle Boatright): The brake pedal drawing says to drill the holes in the brake pedals (The ones which attach them to the rudder pedal weldment and to the brake cylinders.) after checking pedal tilt. I strongly recommend this, 'cause if you don't, you will have to rework your brake pedals...
Here's why: You install rudder pedals (left and right) at different angles, which allows you to put the bottom of both pedals the same distance from the pilot. Since the rudder pedals are not at the same angle, two identical brake pedals will give you brake pedals with a different tilt. The bottom of the brake pedals will be slightly off, but the top will be way off. This might cause a problem one day on roll-out.
To compensate for this difference in tilt, you should build the two brake pedals slightly differently... the F6117A should be mounted 1/4" to ½" lower on the right pedal than on the left one.
I fitted Van's pre-built firewall recess box. I hummed and hahed for a while, and decided to rivet the F6118 rudder brace through the side of the box (as well as the firewall angle). A possibly better alternative would be to use flush rivets (flush side towards the firewall recess) to attach the brace, followed by attaching the recess. As suggested by Van's, after fitting the pedals I cut down the F6118 to match the aft edge of the mounting block.
If you don't have a recess box (just a flat plate to cover the hole in the middle of the firewall), you could attach the brace to the inboard side of the angle (rather than outboard, as shown on the plans) which would give a little more edge distance.
George O in the video does it slightly differently again -- he rivets the brace on the inboard side of the angle with flush rivets. However, George is installing what looks like a home-made recess box. Van's pre-built recess box only just fits into the opening -- tolerance is probably .001". If the brace was on that side, there's no way the box would fit.
To ensure that the L and R pedals align properly, put a long rod through
the R pedal mounting holes whilst mounting the L pedals, and vice versa.
My cables rub against the bottom of the bushings in the F602, and 'click' when the end of the terminal goes through there. I guess that that hole should have been drilled a little lower in the bulkhead. I think I'll be going for Wes's solution, or something like it. Or maybe I'll do what I saw in another RV -- make a cutout in the F602 to clear the cable, and rivet a cable guide on further back.
RV-List message posted by: Wes Hays<whays@juno.com>: I ordered some 1/8" cable sheaths (like they use on sailboats). I put these on the cables from the attachment points at the rudder pedals through the next to last bulkhead before the cable exits. Not only did this keep the swaged terminal on the cables from binding (a very smooth transition), it smoothed up the friction between the cables and the snap bushings so they were smooth as silk and no sawing. They were tough to put on, but I think it is worth it.
The real name for them is Davis Snap-on Cable Covers. I got them from West Marine in CA. The toll free number is 1-800-BOATING
The ones I used are found on page 791 of their 1999 catalogue.
1/8" Model # 107615 Davis# 252-1/8
They come in 6' lengths and are $1.10 for 6'.
Sizes from 3/32" to 3/8"
All the above can be done easier without fitting brake pedals to the rudder pedals.
From Jim Cone's Tri-State Newsletter (Apr 95): If you have the NACA vents, and you want to be able to remove the rudder pedal mounts, you must install the bolts from the bottom, even though this goes contrary to accepted practice which says that bolts should be installed from the top. The bolts are a tight fit through the mounting blocks and are very unlikely to come out even if the nut does loosen. Actually, this only applies to one of my bolts.
I waited until I'd fitted the rudder stops so that I could see how far forward/backward the pedals need to move before making the steel links.
I decided to build a rudder trim system, based on Jim Cone's Rudder Trim system.
I bought some parts from the local hardware store -- the pulleys are about
¾" diameter, and I drilled the centre hole out to 3/16".
I made the pulley mount brackets from a piece of 1x1x1/8" angle.
Note that it fits between the stiffeners on the bottom skin and the stiffeners on the firewall. The rivets attaching the heavy angle which joins these together would interfere with the base flange, so I trimmed the flange back a bit.
The stiffeners which extend aft from the battery box should be rivetted to the box base before drilling to the stiffeners... I did it the other way round, and the bolt holes were slightly misaligned, so that it was really hard to get the bolts in.
You can use regular locknuts, rather than nutplates, on the aft-most bolts (which just attach the battery box stiffener to the floor stiffener).
You can't complete construction of the battery box until you have a battery so that you can position the top clamps properly.
According to some comments on the RV-list, it might be a good idea to mount the battery box left of centre to allow clearance for the mixture cable. (I didn't do this).
The long spacer over the F610 would be 9½" long, not 9¾" as shown in the plans. I don't know why FJ suggests it -- cutting one 9½" plus two 2" spacers out of one 13" piece doesn't quite make it.
Note the position of the F610 -- a bolt goes here through the longeron, not a rivet. Also, there will be a ¾ x ¾ x 1/8 angle above the F612, so don't put a rivet right at the aft end of the F614.
Don't forget to cut the rectangular hole for the elevator horns. Perhaps cut it a little undersize and aim to open it out when mounting the HS and elevators.
To fit it, I first trimmed the main skin to align with the edge of the rib, then marked a line 5/16" from the edge. I also marked a line 5/16" from the edge on one side of the centre panel. I drilled through this 3/32", and then aligned the holes with the line on the main skin, clamped them, and drilled 3/32 through the hole, main skin, and rib. At the rear, the baggage support angle also gets drilled.
Now mark the bottom of the centre skin along the outside of the other centre rib. Trim the skin to the line, then use the above technique to drill the other line of holes. Finally, open holes in the skins out to 5/16", and mount nutplates on the ribs. You might want one-eared nutplates for the aft-most holes.
There's no particular reason to delay rivetting these down, unless you want to install something underneath (e.g. strobe power supply, etc.
RV-List message posted by: David Carter <dcarter@datarecall.net>
I had previously reported that centre ribs under seat floors were
too far apart (each about 1/8 or 1/4 inch outboard of correct position.
When drilling the seat floors, the fix was to use lots of blocks of wood
and tongue depressor shims to hold the ribs steady while drilling floors
to ribs and centre inspection plate to 2 centre ribs.
Now that I have all that done and platenuts installed, and all the blocks/shims removed, the two centre ribs still flex outboard enough to occasionally cause me to mis-start and strip a screw during re-installation of the centre plate. THE SIMPLE FIX: Without the centre plate, but with the floors and centre ribs clecoed or screwed together (used awl to bring rib holes into alignment with skin holes), I drilled a #40 hole down through skin and a rib, between two fwd platenuts - on both sides of tunnel between inboard ribs. Also just fwd of an aft platenut hole that was also giving me a bit of problem. Then I took deburring tool and did a quick and dirty countersink of each hole and dropped in a 426-4-8 flush rivet in each hole to "pin" the floor skin and rib together - hold them aligned even with the screws removed. Then remove the screws or clecos - the un-driven "rivet pins" hold the ribs in correct position for all future instances of installing the centre plate, which doesn't even "see" the flush "rivet pins". No more cocked and stripped screws when installing the centre plate. Even did it on aft end of one of the sloping ribs coming aft from F-604 main spar area to keep that rib/platenut aligned with floor when the screws are out.
RV-List response posted by: Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels@juno.com>
>I had previously reported that centre ribs under seat
floors were too
>far apart (each about 1/8 or 1/4 inch outboard of correct position.
>When drilling the seat floors, the fix was to use lots of blocks of wood
>and tongue depressor shims to hold the ribs steady while drilling floors
>to ribs and centre inspection plate to 2 centre ribs.
One simple way of dealing with this is to use some strips of duct tape pulled tight laterally across the ribs and stuck to each rib with them in the proper position. You can use as many pieces of tape as necessary.
>Now that I have all that done and platenuts installed,
and all the
>blocks/shims removed, the two centre ribs still flex
outboard enough to
>occasionally cause me to mis-start and strip a screw during
>re-installation of the centre plate.
It is usually a good practice to rivet the plate nuts through the
rib and the seat/floor skins for 2 reasons.
1. The rivets that attach the plate nut also hold the rib in place
for you.
2. The rivets that attach the plate nut are accessible. This
is important if you ever do strip out one of those plate nuts and you need
to drill out the rivets to replace it. If the rivets are only through
the rib (covered up by the floor/seat skin) then you have to remove the
whole floor to be able to remove that one plate nut.
I suggest building the seatbacks before riveting the hinge sections to the floor, so that you can use the seatbacks to check the hinge positions. For some reason, my "left" seatback didn't fit. When the hinge-pins were inserted, it interfered with the gusset in front of the F605. I drilled the hinge section off the bottom of the seatback and repositioned it about ½" further outboard, so that the seatback is ½" further inboard when fitted.
Again, there's no particular reason to delay riveting these down.
Don't drill the aft-most holes in the small centre panel too near to the back... the flap handle goes across, and if the hole is too near the back, you won't be able to get in with a screwdriver.
To locate the hole positions, draw the rib positions on the bottom of the panel.
I made an aluminium box which is attached to the rear of the passenger seat (so I can reach it in flight). It fills in the area from the seat back to a vertical plane from the top of the seat. It has turned out to be a great place for an extra quart of oil, the canopy cover, tie down ropes, stakes, and some tools.
FJ talks about a callout for AN470AD3-4 rivets. I didn't see a callout like that.
I didn't have quite enough ¾ x ¾ x 1/8 angle. Maybe I used some where I should have used .063" angle?
For tip-up builders, it's possibly easier to install the cabin frame
before mounting the seatback hardware on the F605.
The F661s are 1/4" taller than shown in the plans (2 1/4" vs 2"). I trimmed 1/8" off one end of the block so that the holes will line up with the F680.
Use 3/16" bushings inserted into the holes in the F661 and a 12" 3/32" drill to pilot drill through the F661 into the F605.
The F680 block attaches to the F605 aft flange and the F619 flange by AN-3 bolts screwed into K1000-3 nutplates (bag 664-1).
Not completed yet.
I have shortened my flap handle by about 5", as in 18 years of RVator pg 91, from RVator 6/90. This caused several other changes to the flap handle/anchor mechanism:
When making the slot in the handle, it would be a good idea to drill the slot end holes using a drill press to ensure that top and bottom slots line up. I drilled a row of #19 holes and then set to with a file to make the slots. In the end, this slot needed to be much wider.
The F660A dimensions aren't critical. It would be a good idea to increase the outer ¾" measurement a little to give better spacing to the LP4-3 rivets. However, it is very important that distance from the folded end to the 3/16" hole be at least ½" -- more is better. Or, better yet, make sure the slot in the handle isn't too long. I discovered this (fortunately) whilst still building the flap handle... the end of the F660A jammed in the end of the slot in the handle. It took about 30 minutes of vigorous work to get everything apart again. This would have been impossible in the air, and would have meant flying round with the flaps stuck at some awkward angle. Pilot drill these holes #40 before doing the 180 degree bend. Also strip the plastic before doing that bend. I bent my F660A in a vise, round a 1/8" bit. That seemed to work well.
After the above wee problem, I decided to replace my F660A. Instead of the bent .040" sheet, I cut two strips of .063" about 1/2" wide. I spaced the aft end of these 7/16" apart (3/16" + 1/4"). The front end was rivetted to the F660A pushrod. Oops... the bolt through the new F660A needed to be a AN3-10A, which was too long to fit inside the flap handle tube.
So I rebuilt it again, this time spacing the two .063" strips about 5/32" apart. I used some spacers at the front end so that a couple of short strips of .063" could attach this assembly to the pushrod. This seems to work well.
I also wonder about the way the spring pushes directly on the F660 --
I think that it would be better if the dowel was above the spring in the
handle.
Gary Zilik wrote on the RV-list: I put the dowel above the spring in the handle. The mechanism seems to work a little smoother with this arrangement. I cut the dowel in half, and put one piece above the spring and one below it. Sam Buchanan wrote on the RV-list: Precisely what I did with my flap handle installation. I cut the wood dowel into two pieces and put the spring between them as shown on this page. The flap handle was also shortened 4". The installation works very nicely.
However, the only way to know the correct length is to actually fit the wing. You will also need to cut a hole in the fuselage for the flap link to go through to connect to the flap.
To assist with this, I borrowed a local Zenith builder's idea and built a cart to hold the wing.
This worked out reasonably well, but the dihedral angle of the wing means it needs to slide across the top of the cart, rather than the cart rolling around the floor. Whilst I had the wing on, I fitted the aileron pushrods.
My F658A flap handle was almost completely wrong. It was *much* too tall, and the notches were all in the wrong place. What I did was to work backwards from the flaps to figure out the appropriate notch positions, as follows:
I used some trigonometry to figure out the distance from the flap full-up TE position to the flap TE position at various angles. For my flaps, the distance from the TE to the hinge was 11.25". This led to the following:
| Flap angle | Distance |
| 10° | 2.0" |
| 20° | 3.9" |
| 25° | 4.9" |
| 30° | 5.8" |
| 40° | 7.7" |
I moved the flap to the correct angle by measuring its TE position as above, and marked the position of the wing skin TE on the flap. This made it easy to later move the flap to the right angle without needing to remeasure.
Once the flap control link was in position, I could then use these marks to mark the position of the top of the flap handle on the F658A. Finally, from these marks I can cut notches in the right place in the F658A.
Make the F631C, D, E brackets and plate as per Dwg #39.
Cut the F631Cs (L&R) from the 2 1/2 x 2 x 3/16 x 18" angle.
Cut the F631Ds (L&R) from the 1 1/2 x 2 x 1/8" angle left over
from making something else.
Cut the F631Es from the 6 x 12 x .063" sheet.
Remove the twist from the F631A pieces.
The width of the fuselage varies by 7/16" from front to rear of the F605. From Dwg #22, I decided that the cabin frame aligns with the front of the F605.
Clamp two F631As to a 3" long piece of angle to keep them straight. Measure the distance apart of the outside edges at the bottom. This distance needs to be 3/8" less than the distance apart of the longerons at F605 (nominally 42 1/2", so the width of the F631 structure should be 42 1/8"). My F631As were initially seemed too wide, but when I checked the height they needed to be a little higher. This might have been due to mismeasurement -- later I had to trim about 1/4" off the bottoms of the F631As.
To test fit, I slipped short pieces of .016" sheet between the skin and longeron. I then clamped F631Cs to these, and to the F631A assembly. The height shown in Dwg #39 is from the top of the longeron, so the cabin frame top should be 18 3/16" above the F605. I clamped a long piece of angle to the F606/F688 so that it holds the F631 assembly at the right angle.
Mark the holes in the F631E and drill into the F631A (rather than vice-versa) so you don't get bad edge distances. But be aware of the tooling hole location in the F631A! Vertically, mine are spaced 11/16" apart rather than the 3/4" specified in the plans... there just isn't that much room in the plate! Horizontal spacing is not specified in the plans... I made mine 3/8" from the edge, 5/8" between rivet rows, and 3/8" from the centreline (the edge of the F631A).
Use a flat board as a simple jig for fitting two F631A pieces to a F631E. Once you've got one measured and laid out, drill 3/16" holes through the tooling holes into the worktop so that you can quickly and easily make up the second set identically.
My long F631B piece was about 1/4" too long, and the inner one about 1/4" too short. Neither of these is a problem, because the bottom of the F631AB assembly will be trimmed at an angle due to the slope of the cabin frame. Round the edges of the F631B pieces so that they fit snugly into the curve of the F631A, otherwise you might have edge distance problems when you drill them together. Whilst drilling, make sure the F631B doesn't creep up during drilling.
When rivetting the F631A and B together (after coutersinking, deburring, and priming), cleco every hole, then rivet every third hole or so. Otherwise you'll find a 'bulge' moves round the frame and suddenly none of the holes line up. I also found I needed to do a little 'panelbeating' around the curve of the F631A to bend the flange in to meet the F631B.
Note that the F631C goes on top of the longeron and F631D, overlapping about 1 1/2" or so. The F631A assembly goes inboard of the F631C. The 'upward' part of the F631D goes inside the F631AB assembly. The F631D itself sits on the longeron.
Don't drill the holes through the F631C,D, and F605 too close together.
There will be 1/4" bolts through the holes, and their heads are 7/16" across.
You'll then also want a gap between the head large enough to fit a socket
or spanner. When you bolt the brackets to the F605, do the outboard
one first, then the inboard one. Otherwise, the inboard nut gets in the
way of the socket on the outboard nut.
RV-List message posted by: DFaile@aol.com: The bottom of the frame is just trim fit, trim fit, trim fit.
I was able to determine that the distance from the fuselage frame to the front of the canopy frame to be 20 3/16 inches. Also, the height needs to be 17 7/8 inches as shown on the plans. Locate the base of the frame aligned with the cross member as per plans. I then mounted the "funky" brackets to the longerons/cross member by drilling 3/32 holes for first alignment and once happy opened them to 1/4". Having them mounted made it easier to work with the rest of the frame. Then drill the side 3/16 holes.
Amazing how strong this structure gets when just clecoed in place. There was a good post a few days ago about the tapped holes on the outside of the skin that require # 10 dimples. Basically, reverse the # 10 and # 8 to make it easier on yourself.
RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com: The #10 hole is in the rear and is used to hold the L-bracket to the roll bar. The #8 is drilled in assy. with the Fwd. aft skin and is used to hold the skin and L-bracket together. After drilling and countersinking the hole is tapped for #8 threads through the L-bracket and roll bar. This effectively gives you four screws holing the L-bracket to the roll bar. The Fwd.aft skin will end up at the fwd edge of the roll bar covering the L-bracket.
I made the mistake of drilling all four holes for #10 so my fwd skin are held on with BIG screws.
RV-List message posted by: "Dennis Persyk"<dpersyk@worldnet.att.net>: Only the aft screws go through the F-674 Aft top Skin and therefore you want them to be #8s so you can use your #8 dimple die.
RV-List reply posted by: JusCash@aol.com: Check your plan sheet #39 side view. The #8 screws go to the front of the roll bar. These two screws not only hold the F674 skin on they pull the forward edge in to align with the canopy frame to come later.
Attaching the F632A brace to the F606 bulkhead is tricky. I used two rows of rivets, one to attach the angle to the F606 and the other to attach the angle to the brace. This is mainly because the F688/F606 holes I'd already drilled were too near to the web of the F606, so wouldn't have good edge distance on the F632A.
Be aware of the position of the F628 and F687 on the F606 bulkhead when deciding where to drill holes to attach the F632 to the F606. Somewhat too late, I found that I couldn't get a bucking bar in to rivet the brace to the bulkhead.
Mike Thompson wrote: Drill out the 606 rivets and back-drill through the 687 (that is the rib along the top of the fuselage upon which the slider's slide rail sits, and runs from the 606 to the 607 bulkheads - attaches to the 607 via small angle).
Sam Buchanan (RV-6) wrote: I took a different approach to the initial fuse assembly which inadvertently avoided the issue of having to drill out the rivets. It seemed to me that it would be easier to fabricate as much of the cabin bulkhead assembly on the bench as possible before setting everything into the jig. Turns out most of the structure around the cabin can be "pre-assembled" on the workbench, then transferred to the jig for final assembly. You can see what I am talking about here.
It was during this phase that it was apparent the 687 rib would share some rivets and having to drill out rivets later was unnecessary. I found the assembly of this section on the bench to be easier than working around the jig and encourage builders who are approaching this phase of construction to consider this option.
You'll need to open out the notches in the F607 so that the 'curl' of the J-stringers fits without rubbing.
Don't pull the skin down too tight with your cargo straps -- the bulkheads will buckle forwards.
Don't trim the skin until after you've drilled it to the skeleton. The shape of the front and rear edges looks quite strange.
I also trimmed the bottom edges.
RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com
Trim the skin before you drill it to the bulkheads. Make sure
that the bulkheads are reinforced, (I used plywood clecoed to the bulkheads)
they will flex when you strap them down. If they flex you will have
crooked rivet lines. And possibly a dip in the top skin line when
looking at profile of the airplane.
I would trim 2 to 3 inches outside the suggested line on the plans. I trimmed to the 1" line and almost ran out of overlap when I cut the aft end of the canopy to much. Don't believe that 65inch measurement on the plans. Cut the aft end no further than the mold line until you establish how the canopy will fit the canopy skin.
RV-List message posted by: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule@pfclaw.com>
I did make a preliminary trim before drilling the skin to the bulkhead.
If you don't then the skin will not lie properly for drilling. Then
remove the skin and trim to allow proper edge distance for the holes.
Be sure to roll the edges of the skin before you dimple those holes.
Then I drilled the skin to the bulkhead and trimmed afterwards. Also I left an extra inch for the window.
I followed FJ and trimmed to 1" forward of the 'canopy line' given in the plans.
Make sure the front bottom lines up with the front edge of the rollbar.
I wound up trimming about 1/4" off the bottom edges of the skin (after
it was drilled to the skeleton).
Note that to set the HS to 0 degrees incidence, you put 1/4" spacer
underneath the HS rear spar. This is not mentioned in the video.
Then put a 1/8" spacer on top of the HS front spar (to match the 1/8" spacer
on top of the F614), and another 1/4" spacer on top of the rear spar. Your
spirit level then sits on top of these spacers. Shim under the HS to level
your level.
See my elevators page for information about drilling the control rod hole at the bottom front of the horn.
Fitting the elevators is (I think) covered in the Systems video, not the Fuselage or Finish video.
Like other people on the RV-list, I found I had to cut a notch in the HS rear spar bottom flange to give enough down deflection on the elevator. Note that the elevator horns are in slightly different positions, so you might only need to notch for one.
Fitting the control stops as shown on the plans (down inside the cavity
between F611 and F612 ribs) is next to impossible. The rivets holding the
F611 and F612 ribs together also make fitting the stops to the ribs difficult.
In the end, I opted to rivet the stops (made out of 3/16" bar left over
from making the F611Ds) to the F614 aft deck.
Whilst the stops placed here
are at a mechanical disadvantage compared to the plans location (a) they're
much easier to fit, and (b) they can be rivetted solidly to the longerons
so that they're strong enough. I put the aft stop on top of the deck, hard
up against the front of the angle that the VS attaches to. The forward
stop goes underneath the deck, hard up agains the aft side of the F611.
Note that because of the relative angles of the two elevator horns, these
stops won't be straight anyway, so that horns hit the stop at the same
time.
RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" (ebowhay@shuswap.net): With the inspection hole cut as per the drawings reach in with your right hand and get the rod end bearing lined up as close as you can. Then with the bolt held in a flexible mechanical finger ( say about 12 inches long) push the bolt into place with the head end away from you. By moving the rod end around with your right hand this can be done easily. Leaving the mechanical finger hooked up, with your right hand reach in and install it with right hand with a socket on a ratchet with an extension put it on the bolt and tighten. Your left hand will be outside doing this. Ten minutes should take care of it, five after a bit of practice.
I also needed to ream the brass bushings 0.249" so that the bolt would fit through.
FJ mentions an AN-4-30 bolt. This is actually an AN-4-27 bolt.
The Heim M3414Ms are in bag 655... they have 3/16" holes in the eye part.
I couldn't tighten the rod-end bearings in the F655 pushrod enough to get the sticks parallel. It looks to me like the pushrod is 1/2" too long or so. I was very concerned about this, but Vans had it covered... the holes drilled and tapped into the ends of the F655 are about 1 1/2" deep, so it's no problem to cut a piece off the end of the F655.
It's necessary to remove the L stick to fit the control column assembly into the mounts.
Note that jam nuts are needed on the pushrod rod-ends. This isn't explicitly stated in the plans, although you can see them there if you look closely. FJ also mentions them.
I needed to file a round notch in the bottom of the fork to get full up elevator.
I positioned my control column mounts as per the plans, but then had
to trim an extra 1/4" or so from the top of the rib holes in the F618 and
F619 ribs to allow full movement. Lowering the c/c mounts would have fixed
(or at least minimised) this problem.
It looks like up elevator is the limiting factor in terms of control column position, because the bottom of the column will hit the F604 bulkhead. So mount the HS and elevators, and clamp the elevators at full up. Now make the pushrods the right length so that the control column is just clear of the bulkhead in this configuration.
I found I needed a total of about 5/16" of spacers between the elevator horns and the rod-end. I glued a "washer" made of 1/8" aluminium to one horn, and one of 3/16" al to the other.
A total of 1/8" spacing was needed in the Wd610 -- this was done by gluing in 2 * AN960-10 washers.
Similarly 2 washers were glued in the Wd611 and Wd612s at the F665 attachment only -- the aileron pushrods have larger rod-end bearings than those on the F665.
Only glue spacers into the short end of the elevator bellcrank (FJ says to do both ends) -- the aft elevator pushrod rod-end bearings are larger than the front one.
RV-List message posted by: "jim jewell" <jjewell@okanagan.net>
I had a problem with spacing my elevator horns. In my case the space
was one quarter inch on both sides.
Instead of washers:
I made two spacers approximately 1 3/8 x 1/2" from some 1/4" aluminum 6061
stock, 2024 would also do. If your fit requires a different thickness
file, grind or use appropriate thickness material. I drilled one end to
fit the required 1/4" hole. I tapered the other end to about 1/4" to reduce
weight.
I then fit the spacer with a 1/4" bolt to its position. I oriented the tapered end toward the center of the circular weld that holds the horn to its tubular shaft. Surrounded by welded material this area should be safe structurally.
I drilled two 1/8" holes through the Spacer and the horn into the area in the center of the round welded area. Two 1/8" pop rivets hold the spacer in place for assembly eliminating the need to try to fit washers in a very restricted blind area later on.
RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com (Harry Crosby): For the forward elevator control tube, the one that is 3/4" diameter that goes from the control column to the bellcrank, sheet 40 of the plans shows a length of 47 1/2". Assuming that this refers to the tube length without rod ends, the overall length between bolt hole centers with the rod ends set to the middle of their allowable travel would be 51 1/2" (center to center of the bolt holes). But, when I set the control column at about mid fore and aft travel and the bellcrank vertical as shown on the plans, it looks like an overall push rod length of 50 5/8" is required (or 46 5/8" for the tube without the rod ends). This 7/8" difference is more than the available adjustment in the rod ends.
FJ says to screw in the W619 removable pieces. I don't think that's a good idea -- they'll have to be removed later to install the splice plates. Which led to my next problem -- the screws to attach the W619s to the F604 are out of reach behind the Wd610 :-( -- I'll need to disassemble the control columns to be able to install/remove the W619s.
1. Use a drill press to drill the 3/16" holes (shown as 0.188" in the plans).
2. It's easier to use a sharp knife to trim the chamfer in the F6123.
3. Use HW store bolts to attach the F6123 to the F6124... they'll need to be disassembled again later. Trim the flange of the F6124 so that it is even with the edge of the F6123. From the edges of the F6123, trim the flange of the F6124 back at an angle.
4. I drilled a 5/8" hole... that worked out fine.
5. The direction of the F6123 slot isn't important... the purpose of the slot is to allow the trim to be tightened. See photos 4 and 5 for the position of the bracket. The bracket goes on the removable part of the F619s. You'll need to install these in the fuselage to get the right position. The photo shows the top handle is just aft of the edge of the F604 flange. I had positioned my control column mounts as per the plans, but then couldn't fit my trim where Vans show -- it interfered with the control column. Lowering the c/c mounts would have fixed (or at least minimised) this problem.
Drill 3/32" pilot holes in the F6124, then transfer these to the F619 ribs... turn the F6124 over so that the L side stays on the F619L.
As usual, drill #40 rivet holes before opening the middle nutplate hole out to 3/16".
8. Remove the control column before fitting the aileron trim.
9. I've postponed cutting down the Wd656 (and therefore drilling Wd658 to it) until upholstery is decided.
The same applies to the manual aileron trim as to the control columns -- it can't be final mounted until the W619s, and therefore the wing, is attached.
To feed the trim tab cable through, I fed a wire through the HS from the hole in the rear spar. I then attached the end of the trim cable to the wire with duct tape and pulled it through with the wire.
I needed to open out the 7/16" hole in the rear spar a little so that the cable would fit through.
It looks to me like the Wd-415 could be flush-rivetted to the E-616 trim cable cover.
To get the VS vertical, I taped a 3/16" OD, 3/32" ID (as used to pilot drill the wing spar holes) in the top rudder bracket, then threaded dental floss through it so that it hung more or less centrally through the other two sets of brackets. As well, ensure that the rear spar is centred on the centreline.
The bottom of the VS rear spar needs to sit pretty much hard down on the tailwheel mount so that the bottom bolt will have good edge distance.
I'd (accidentally) already drilled the holes in the tailspring mount/F612. This didn't turn out to be much of a problem. I just measured the location of the bottom hole from the top of the tailwheel mount, then drilled the hole that distance up from the bottom of the VS spar. Then, with a bolt through the bottom hole, I back-drilled (using Avery's close-quarters drill set) through the existing holes and through the VS rear spar.
Next step was to fit the aft support angle. I pilot-drilled this 3/32", then clamped it in place to the VS and drilled 3/32" to the longerons. I then clecoed these holes and drilled 3/32" to the VS. Most of this drilling was with 12" long bits. Then I drilled the VS holes out to 3/16", and during a later disassembly did the same to the longeron holes.
I did need to trim about 3/8" or so off the bottom of the front spar so that the VS is level fore-and-aft.
To align the VS fore-and-aft, I clamped a piece of angle to the tops of the bulkheads along the centreline, then just aligned the centre bottom front of the VS with this piece of angle.
Test-fit the VS and mark the position of the F681 on it. The remove
the VS and drill the rivet holes 3/32" in the the front spar. Re-assemble
and drill to the F681.
The same trigonometry (but a little easier) that applied to calculating elevator full up and down also apply to calculating rudder full deflection.
My rudder is 21" from hinge to the bottom of the TE. Full deflection
is 35°, so maximum offset is 21*sin(35°) = 12". Set up a stop 12"
to the left of the centreline, clamp the rudder TE bottom to that, and
fabricate a stop to attach to the fuselage. Repeat the process for the
right-hand side.
RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>: The plunger in the tailwheel centring mechanism mushrooms out after a certain amount of time (100s of hours) and then hangs up in the groove in the shaft one day with no notice. The solution is to take it apart and grind or file the top and bottom to get it flat again so that it will slide into the slot freely. Keep it oiled (not greased), repeat every annual.
1. rudder pedal installation, rudder cable installation (at
least the bulkhead holes)
2. electric/manual flap installation
3. floor boards and nutplates (these of course are removed
when skinning)
4. bulkhead holes for electrical wire/conduit to rear position
light (if installed)
5. control stick assembly fitting and pushrod fabrication
(F-439 and F-440)
6. placement of electric fuel pump.
This list was passed on to my by Paul McReynolds, RV guru from the Chicago area RV builders.
Add to this list:
1) Per the pictures on my web site, you can see the door in the baggage bulkhead. There is a piece of 3/4X3/4X.063 angle riveted with the hinge. This is what the front of the skis rest on and can barely be seen in the top picture on my web page.
2) The door was cut in the baggage bulkhead with a Dremel and small cut off wheel.
3) The secondary structure (on the bulkhead behind the baggage bulkhead) is roughly shown on the enclosed drawing. It is made from 3/4 X 3/4 X .063 aluminium angle. The horizontal and small vertical angles are riveted together with two or three 1/8 rivets at each joint. A 3/16" platenut is installed in each corner of the horizontal pieces (four total). This allows it to be bolted to the bulkhead with AN3-? bolts. The only permanent modification to the bulkhead behind the baggage bulkhead is four 3/16" bolt holes. The secondary structure is removable and very light. With this arrangement, it is impossible for the skis to fall off and into the elevator pushrod.
4) To install the skis, it is necessary to remove the pilot seat. The skis are fed over the horizontal seat back rest and then through the baggage bulkhead door and then UNDER the secondary structure. The front of the skis point towards the front of the aircraft. The skis then come forward up near the rudder pedals until the back of the skis can be lifted up into the secondary structure. The skis then go back until the front of the skis are about where the pilot seat will be. The bindings will be in the tail cone, as shown in the pictures. Is is necessary to put the skis in, then pull them forward, then push them back as the seat rest bulkhead causes them to initially be installed at such a large angle. You have to get the vertical locations of the door in the baggage bulkhead and then the rear structure just right or else this will not work. You should be able to scale the baggage bulkhead picture to get it's location. The canopy isn't a problem and it only takes about five minutes to pull the seat, insert two sets of skis and reinstall the seat.
5) It might be a very good idea to temporarily put a piece of .063 steel between the back of the pilot seat and the front of the skis. If you were to be involved in a forced landing, you do not want the skis to penetrate the pilot seat and then into your spine.
6) Watch the CG. I doubt that this will work with a wood prop up front. I have a C/S prop and have no problems.
This way, they don't intrude into the passenger area too much. They're also far enough forward so that they won't adversely affect the C of G. You would need to cut slots in the baggage compartment rear wall for the ski tips to go through. However, getting them into place is the big problem. Somehow you need to get them underneath the seatback support of the F605 bulkhead. I couldn't figure this out. Maybe it might be possible if you're building a sliding canopy?
Instead, I followed Stan Blanton's technique below, with a few mods:
I made one large hole on the upper baggage compartment rear wall... both pairs of skis go to the left of the cetre upright of the F606.
I installed supports made from 3/4x3/4x.063" across both the F607 and F608 bulkheads so that shorter skis can be carried safely. My skis (200cm) don't quite reach the F609 bulkhead.
To keep CG as far forward as possible, I intend that the tips of the skis will be right behind the F605 bulkhead, attached to it in some way. I haven't done CG calculations, but I did weigh and measure a couple of pairs of skis (alpine style, not telemark). My skis are Atomic Arc 200s with Saloman 737 bindings. They weigh 14lb and their CG is 42" from the tip. The other pair I have are old Kneissl 170s with Look CT2 bindings. They weigh 13lb and their CG is 37" from the tip. This fits in OK with Stan's estimates below. You'll also need to figure out a way to carry poles... they won't fit into the baggage compartment. The obvious way is for them to go into the same space that the skis do. Like Stan, I'll make two covers for the bulkhead hole, one for no skis, and one to hold skis in place... some slots in it. I reinforced around two sides of the bulkhead hole with pieces of 3/4x3/4x.063" angle.
I designed an internal ski rack for my RV-6/slider.
The tails of the skis are supported by an angle across the longerons at bulkhead F-609. There are also vertical angles at this location to prevent lateral movement. The vertical angles also have neoprene material facing the ski to reduce rattles and movement.
The forward ends of the skis rest on the top of the lower baggage compartment panel (which is reinforced with a piece of angle). One ski passes on either side of the center upright of the F-606 bulkhead.
The upper baggage compartment panel has a single rectangular hole cut in it extended to either side of the center upright. There are two separate panels available to cover the hole. One is solid and will be used when no skis are carried. The other has a small hole on either side of the center upright. It is installed after the skis are put in place. This way the size of the holes can be minimized to reduce drafts. I may install some sort of soft boot to totally eliminate dafts. Both panels are held in place with series 2600 camlocs through the same anchor plates.
I have test fit my skis which are 205cm. They can be put in without removing a seat. It does take a bit a finesse to insert the ski tails into the brackets at the F-609 bulkhead. The skis are totally out of the way of the elevator pushod. The tips of the skis will extend forward into the baggage compartment. The skis will rest close to the center upright which should eliminate interference with the shoulder harness cables. I will need to fabricate a retaining cable with sock to place over the ski tips to restraint forward movement.
I too was worried about aft CG. My skis use telemark bindings and weight 12 pounds a pair max. This will be a little lighter than normal alpine skis but shouldn't be more than a couple of pounds difference. The skis are approximately 80 inches long. This means the ski CG is approx. 40 inches behind the baggage compartment. According to my math, not always perfect, 25 pounds of skis equals 30 pounds in the baggage compartment. Yes, the polar moment of inertia increases but I don't plan on doing aerobatics with the skis in the back.
I like this idea, but have been thinking about ways to do it better. For example, rather than some ugly and heavy piece of PVC tubing, I am thinking about making a nice aerodynamically shaped custom pod from composites. This could hang by two simple brackets attached to the fuselage floor angles so it could be easily attached or removed when you want to use it. It would mount forward enough to not be affected by the heat of the exhaust blast, and can be long enough so as not to scrape the ground during landing. Tail draggers might have a problem with this, but nose wheel folks should be able to get it long enough for skiis with sufficient clearance.
What I'm wondering is how this might affect in-flight handling of the plane. I've heard military AWACs pilots who fly with that huge radar disc on top of their planes saying that they don't even know it's there.
The pod could be shaped in two ways. One, symetrically and aerodynamically for minimum drag, or two as an airfoil to build some extra lift to compensate for the weight of the pod. As a complete amatuer in this type of thing, I tend to favor aerodynamically (not as an airfoil) to minimize stresses on the mounting brackets. Having a single bracket fail with this thing hanging in the breeze could definitely ruin one's flight.
RV-List message posted by: pcondon@csc.com: For an idea start with a single pressure recovery wheel fairing from Vans or Sam James (Sam's are a bit bigger) Simply use the front of the fairing for the nose of your Ski-tube and the rear of the fairing for the rear of the Ski-tube.