You really have to do some soul searching now because once you decide, you're out a lot of cash or time.
The biggest soul searcher of all is: Do you really want to build or is it flying you're after? You'll need the space to build and it really should be very close to your house, preferably attached to it so you can just slip out there and work on it. If you have to drive any distance at all to get to your workshop, it makes completing it a long shot.
It's also reasonably important to have an understanding wife, if you're married. She doesn't necessarily have to be able to drive rivets with the best of them but she at least has to be in agreement with the project or it will create considerable friction.
Building an airplane costs money. The bigger ones cost a lot more money than the little ones. Are you prepared to spend $20K? $30K? $40K?
Deciding whether to build or not is the first decision. The general rule seems to be: If you want a plane, buy a plane. If you want to build, build one. That isn't an absolute rule though -- I wanted a plane, and now I enjoy building it as much as anything else. Do not aim to build as a way to save money -- it won't be any cheaper to build than to buy. No, really, it won't. You will be paying yourself very close to $0.00/hour. Check out my cost estimates below if you don't believe me.
An RV kit IS NOT a "pop-together" airplane....you must BUILD it! I have been amused/disturbed by folks finding .020" "errors" in their emp kits. This has convinced me that I am indeed a very sloppy builder. I hereby confess that I NEVER measured anything in the emp kit with a dial caliper. I also am guilty of the odious transgression of running a 3/16" drill bit through the hinge brackets to create a nice fit for the bearing bolts.
Was there a .020" error in my kit? I don't know! Do I care? NO! Why? Because I am "building" this aircraft, and any structure as complex as an airframe (and assembled by amateur fabricators) is going to require "fitting" due to individual accumulation of tolerances.
Let's assume that you decide to build. Now, consider what you want out of a plane -- what is its mission to be? Do you want something to scoot around the country? Fly overseas? Go backcountry camping? Land on short farm strips? What's your piloting skill level? How safe is the design? Tailwheel or tri-gear? Cart lots of stuff around? Pull bleeding-eyeball aerobatics? Night flying? Do you want IFR capabilities and therefore need panel space? Consider the sociability of side-by-side vs tandem seating. Do you want your plane to be really unique, or just different from every other aircraft? Aesthetics?
I chose the RV-6 over anything else because
(1) I flew one, and it gave exactly the feel I wanted. Handling and TO/L
qualities are more important for my mission than cruise speed (the RVs are
plenty fast enough).
(2) I prefer working with metal to working with composites.
(3) I found the tail-dragger appealing.
(4) Builder support.
************************
>Who wants an airplane with a training wheel on the front???
Apparently a lot of people since they out sell the rear wheeled model by a slim margin.
I have flown both so will add a couple of comments that may be helpful in making a decision.
With no prior tail dragger experience your insurance premiums will be higher than for the RV-6A until you get an accumulation of hours (assuming you will be carrying total hull coverage)
The RV-6 built as a basic airplane (wood prop) is a little more aft C.G. when empty than an equivalent 6A which would be "slightly" more limiting in useful C.G. range (with constant speed prop it's not really a factor).
The RV-6A is heavier than an RV-6 equipped the same by about 15 lbs.
The RV-6 is more adapted to using rough strips (because it is a tail dragger).
The RV-6A can probably take off and land shorter (by an RV pilot with average skills) than a equivalently equipped RV-6 (also flown by an RV pilot of average skills). Not that this is really an issue with the great performance that all RV's have.
Resale value tends to run slightly higher for 6A's. (There is a lot larger pilot/buyer market that is qualified in tricycle airplanes only)
If you do not already have some tail dragger time in your book you will have to get some time logged ahead of time if you intend on doing any of the test flying. With the 6A most pilots that are current find that an hour or 2 and they feel comfortable to go fly their own.
I have landed RV-6A's in 20 mph direct cross winds. This of course is also possible with the tail dragger, but I'll bet it would take more attention of most RV pilots than it does with the 6A.
The consensus on the RV-list seems to be that an O320 with a constant speed propellor is better than an O360 with fixed pitch.
If you follow the aviation press, it's clear that Diesels (or turbines?) are where GA engines are going to be at in 5 or 10 years or so. If you buy a new or overhauled Lycoming, it may be difficult to sell your Lycoming core when it runs out of life. If no-one wants O360s in 10 years time when yours gets to 2000 hours, the core that you bought for $5000 might only have a resale value of $100 for scrap metal.
As time goes by (ie as everyone switches to Diesels), it'll become more difficult to buy 100LL. Less airfields will have a 100LL pump. Not a big problem if you're only flying locally, but maybe a hassle if you're going cross-country?
Since 100LL is used because it's the cheapest way to power airplanes, it's also obvious that its no-lead replacement will be more expensive than 100LL. How much more expensive??? Who knows?
Here in NZ, we've got rid of our leaded auto fuels. We now have unleaded 91 and 96 octane fuels. Some older cars need a squirt of additive (about $1 a time) each time they fill up to prevent valve-seat recession. At the changeover, there were also quite a number of problems with fuel hoses... the high aromatic (benzene) content of the new fuel caused O-rings to expand and leak.
I'd think carefully before installing a 180hp engine in an RV because of (a) the extra weight, and (b) the extra fuel consumption. You're giving away useful load and maybe range in exchange for your takeoff performance. Think to yourself whether it's a good trade.
One option I'm considering is an auto engine conversion. This is the subject of intense debate amongst homebuilders... some feel they're inherently unsafe, mainly because "the engine was only designed to run at 30% power". Others argue that that's (a) untrue, and (b) irrelevant. It does seem (to me) that with appropriate modifications an auto conversion can be made to work.
There are several options for RVs: Buick/Rover V8, Chevy Vortec V6, Ford 3.8L V6, and Mazda 13B rotary. I think the rotary has the most promise.
There are several propellor options:
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com: With the electric MT prop governor recommended by Eggenfellner, the recommendation is to turn it off for acro because it's SIGNIFICANTLY SLOWER than a hydraulic governor and can't keep up with the requirements - too easy to overspeed the engine for sure. One estimate I heard of was the electric is about 1/6th the speed - reaction time - of a hydraulic system. So you turn it off for acro and end up fixed pitch.
Similarly, consider whether you need that whole IFR stack and/or a CS prop -- it'll mean you can carry less and/or not go as far between refuellings.
The bottom-line effect of a few pounds is quite significant. Consider two RV-6s, one at 1058lbs empty and the other 976lbs; an 82lb difference. Given a 210lb pilot and full fuel (38 gallons = 120???lbs), if I have a 976lb plane, at Gross I have 294lbs available for luggage & passenger... ie another big guy, plus 40lbs luggage each. With the heavier plane, I have only 212lb available... I can take a big guy and no luggage, or a 130lb blonde girl and some luggage (no room for pajamas though :-)
Aerobatics-wise, with me flying, gives 1375 - 210 = 1165lbs for plane, fuel, and passenger. With a 1058lb plane, that only leaves 107lbs for fuel+passenger -- it's either solo aerobatics with one tank of fuel, or I can take the blonde girl aboard with no fuel. With a 976lb plane however, I can take that blonde girl up for an hour or so. More, if I go on a diet!
Build your plane LIGHT!!!!!
Per Van's recommendations in the construction manual:
Weight Limitation - 1375 Pounds
Recommended Entry Speeds:
Loops, Horizontal Eights 120 - 165 Kts
Immelman
Turns
130 - 165 Kts
Aileron Rolls, Barrel Rolls 105 - 165 Kts
Snap
Rolls
70 - 95 Kts
Vertical
Rolls
155 -165 Kts
Split-S
85 - 95 Kts
From my limited experience, the RV will pick up speed real fast when pointed downhill. A fixed pitch prop will be worse than a CS in this regard.
Spinning an RV-6(A) is nothing like spinning a 152. The rotation is much faster, initial loss of altitude greater, the RV's nose is pointed much lower (almost past the inverted) during the recovery. I consider spins in a 152 to be enjoyable. I can't say the same about my RV-6A.
The other aerobatic maneuvers are quite enjoyable. The rolls and loops are effortless, just watch the speed going downhill. I don't mean to scare anyone with the descriptions of the spins. Just don't expect the RV to behave like a spam can while in a spin.
Especially, GET PROPER TRAINING prior to any aerobatic work in your RV.
Install just basic flight instruments and an electrical system that allowed for easy upgrade and installation of new equipment. For avionics I would install a single com unit (such as an Icom A-200) with a stereo intercom, and a transponder/encoder (I like to fly cross country above 10,000 ft when possible).
I would probably also install nav. lights and landing light(s)
-Then working from this basic airplane as funds would allow (over and above the basic airplane above) I would choose the following in approx. this order.
-A GPS with moving map. (I know it is not a necessity, and I have flown many RV hours with just a chart on my lap, but when the weather is bad the situational awareness that it provides has mad me decide on it being a Go/No-Go item for "Me" in dealing with any weather with less than 5 miles vis.
-A navaid auto pilot/wing leveler (coupled to the previously purchased GPS
-An accurately calibrated fuel flow totalizer (such as the matronics unit).
-Additional engine instrumentation for EGT and CHT
-At this point I would have a well laid out panel that would have painted to match covers over "a lot" of the holes, and I can easily add other things if I thought I needed them but I probably wouldn't change it much. The plus side is that it makes it very easy for someone else to make it into "their" ideal airplane if I would ever sell it (I have already sold 1 RV that I thought I would never sell).
The bottom line is only put in what you really need. If you have never flown anything but the Cessna rent a wreck it the local airport then maybe a good way to go is design for all contingencies but keep it simple to start with, and then add later as you need it (this will also be easier on the wallet and get you in the air sooner).
If you design your electrical system properly you can make it a relatively simple project to add and upgrade.
I know of two builders who are beyond 10 years into building their RV-4s. Could you wait that long before flying? Or could you put more time in to get it done faster? You probably don't have as much spare time as you think... before I started, I'd figured out that I could do it in 18 months, but I'm now 2 years down the track and less than halfway. I also have a job and a life, and found that 50 hours per month was about all I could sustain, and even that is a major commitment. At 50 hours per month, my RV-6 will take 40 months (3.3 years) if Vans claimed 2000 hours build time is correct. A recently built RV-6 I know of took 3200 hours (ie 64 months = 5.3 years at my rate of progress). If you're going to have fancy avionics or a non-standard engine, you might end up adding a year or more to that.
See my time-to-build summary for how long various parts took me to build... that might give you a vague idea of how long it would take you to do the same thing.
Rest assured, whatever plane you decide to build, you will learn a lot of new skills. If (like me when I started) you're relatively skill-less and clumsy with tools, I can assure you that it is possible to overcome that. Plane-building is NOT rocket-science. It's also not limited to highly-skilled tradespeople. If this is your first plane (and why else would you be reading this page?), I suggest that you go with a kit of some sort. There is vastly more work in building from plans.
I went to a workshop put on by some local RV enthusiasts, and came away convinced that it was possible for me to build an RV. I think that Vans and/or Alexander Airplane put on similar workshops in the USA. Highly recommended! In fact, a must.
RV-6
kit
24,000 incl freight & GST
45,000 (quick-build)
engine
options 10,000 (rebuilt O-320)
40,000 (new ex-Vans O-360)
50,000 (aircraft diesel of some sort)
10,000 (Mazda 13B or other auto engine conversion)
prop
1,000 (wooden fixed pitch)
3,000 (metal CS)
instruments
5,000 (very bare minimum)
10,000 (realistic minimum)
30,000 (all top-notch)
paint
5,000 (about what it costs to paint a C150)
So the cheapest option would be a total of $45,000, most expensive $133,000. Note this doesn't include payment for your time. Last year there was an RV-6 with O-320 and reasonable instruments for sale for $89,000 -- it didn't sell. The rule is: If you want to fly, buy. If you want to build, build.
From the RV-list: I set my goal for a RV4 at $25,000 . I came up with a flying plane just short of that amount. (basic radios, no paint , used engine). My totals today are just shy of $30,000. That includes all shipping, tools, misc. items, paint, seats, everything.
Here's my totals :
Kit
9,900 bought in 92
Engine
7,900 core, new mags,carb,fuel
pump,exhaust
Prop
450 Sterba FP wood
Radios
3,000 Loran, Com, Trans, Elt
Instruments
1,000 air, tach, T&B, Oil,
CHT/EGT, alt,
Tools
900 expect to spend more, I had or
made many tools myself
shipping
650 Oregon to Southern Calif (Chino)
Paint
3,200 had it painted
Electrical
430 breakers, wire, connectors,
battery and such
other
900 books, FAA, much is
firewall forward stuff
And consider the money needed over that time. If you don't have much money, it might be worth considering buying the kit in several small chunks, rather than buying it all at once. That way, you can save up for the wing kit whilst building the empennage, and so on. On the other hand, several small shipments will cost more in freight than one large one.
If you're considering building a Quick-Build, think about building the empennage from a normal kit... it will still fit your QB (order the QB without the empennage and Vans gives you a big discount). It'll also introduce you to plane-building on cheaper parts.
Although Vans claims to provide every nut, bolt, etc, there's some "add-ons" (eg fuel senders) that you'll need to turn it into a useable aircraft. There's many more "add-ons" (eg landing lights, strobes, cockpit air vents, etc) that you'll want to turn it into a useable aircraft.
Do you have $10,000 per year to spare over the next 5 years?
Add to that the cost of tools -- I started from scratch, with virtually no tools, workshop, or metalworking experience. Here's my list, again in NZ$:
Air compressor ($500)
Spraygun for priming ($100)
Primer -- epoxy-based ($500)
Sheet metal tools $2000 -- check out Avery's web page
Some woodworking tools for building jigs, etc -- drill, skilsaw, jigsaw ($200)
Wood for jigs -- maybe $200?
Benchtop grinder. Angle grinder. Drill press.
Pipeworking tools (notably a flaring tool US$70)
Inch-pound torque wrench (US$70)
Instructional videos, books, etc ($300)
I ordered my tools from Avery's... they allowed me to add-in extra tools into their RV Builders' Empennage Tool Kit and gave me 10% discount on all of them. Because of freight costs, I got Avery's to send the tools to Van's, who included them in the shipment with my kit.
RV-List message posted by: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger@arlington.net>
I am building a VFR RV-6A. Today I completed adding up my cost so far...and shocked myself. Terry may be right...I might not have started if I had known what was involved...but I have certainly enjoyed the building process and would do it again...only sooner. I am now ready to enjoy the freedom of flight...soon, I hope.
Here are my costs with larger expenditures listed. The item listed may be the biggest item in a combined order...not the cost of the item.
EMPENNAGE: $3326 including--$1060 kit, $857 Avery tools, $386 air squeezer, $295 air compressor, and $101 shop insulation.
WING: $5001 including--$3456 kit, $211 fuel gages, $210 landing lights, $175 another squeezer yoke, $135 kit shipping, and $119 HVLP gun.
FUSELAGE: $4640 including--$3832 kit, $286 dual brakes, $140 steps, and $131 kit shipping.
FINISH (to date): $22,347 including--$3830 kit, $3736 high-time engine,
$2420 Terra COM/TXPR/ENCOD, $1765 Sensenich metal prop, $1488 Skyforce GPS,
$848 EIS, $800 NavAid instrument, $650 NavAid servo, $650 Vetterman exhaust,
$635 flight instruments, $550 Lightspeed headsets, $400 SkyTec starter, $336
Aeroflash strobes, $306 directional gyro, $291 eng shock
mounts, $283 baffle, $260 alternator, $231 kit shipping, $230 gyro hor, $228
airspeed indicator, $219 ELT, and $215 seat harness.
TOTAL TO DATE: $36,134. Larger items pending--seats, cockpit insulation,
exterior coating, and engine overhaul (will fly until
overhaul is needed).
RV-List message posted by: robjhall@juno.com (Robert J. Hall)
I just added up all the stuff I have receipts for and this is what I spent on my RV-6, excluding shipping and tools. I expect I spent another $500-$1000 on those $20 at a time items.
As you will note, it is basic VFR but not bare bones. I am looking at an engine overhaul in 12-18 months and no paint yet.
Airframe Kits $10,899 slider, elect. flaps, eng mount
Engine & Prop $6,995 high time eng, used Warnke prop,
accessories, plumbing
Instruments $2,601 A/S, Alt, VVI, G-meter, vert card
compass, turn-coord, RMI engine monitor
Avionics $2,511 Val 760, Re-man
transponder, Pilot III GPS, intercomm
Misc $2,249
Whelen strobes/nav lights, dual brakes, upholstery, etc
Total Receipts $25,255
You may want to recess a steel back-rivetting plate into the workbench for back-rivetting your control surfaces. Ideally, that'll be at least 4' from each end of the bench so that you can get either end of your control surfaces over it. You'll need to drill into the benchtop sometimes... alternatively, use a large sheet of plywood on top of the benchtop to drill into.
My compressor is out in the garden shed -- makes it much quieter in the workshop.
If you have the room several tables would be nice. I have a very small shop and am building a quickbuild 6a, just so you know where I am coming from. My shop is 10 by 20'. I have a single multi-purpose bench. This bench has the bending brake that is published in the plans module on the front face. The size of the table top is 3' by 6'. I have a 4 by 8 sheet of fiberboard that I normally have on top of the table and this gives me plenty of room to work. Of course more room would be nice, but hey I've got to put the fuselage somewhere. I use the small top for the finish bends on stuff and the larger top for general work. The biggest piece I had to put on my bench was when I dimpled the wing skins. I could have used a larger top or even possibly a recessed slot for my C-Frame, but I got by without it.
One thing I would recommend is building the small EAA (Tony B.) workbench for the grinder, band saw, drill press and sander. I did not have all of these when I started but now with them all on this bench it really works out great. This bench is on casters so that it can be moved about in my extremely small workplace and you can rotate it to the tool you are using. That comes in real handy.
FWIW, here's some arithmetic to figure how much space you need to build the wings. You'll need a bit less space for the empennage, and I'd guess that the fuselage can mostly be built in this amount of space too.
Width: Wing spar = 8" wide. Minimum of 2', preferably 3', workspace needed either side. On a single wing jig, add another 4" for the post. I'm building both wings on a single set of posts... the cross-arms are 44" long (could probably get away with down to 30"), and you want a couple of feet either side for yourself.
Length: RV-6 span = 23', so each main spar is 12' 6" or 150" long, less the width of the tip (maybe 12"?), divided by cosine(dihedral angle). Add to this 4 to 6 inches for the width of the post and the cross-arm. Add to this 12-24" if you want to walk round the root end of the spar rather than duck under it. Also add to this 12-24" at the tip end, since you'll need to stand there to buck rivets in the outboard two ribs.
So a 2-wing jig requires 78" across (preferably 104") by 162" long. Building one wing at a time, you'd need about 60" (preferably 84") by 162" of space.
I have a single garage, and my car was outside until the wings were finished. I'm did both wings simultaneously, and the jig plus a workbench takes up the full width and most of the length of the garage.
Don't forget you'll need somewhere to store the empennage while building the wings.
As it happens, the garage was needed to store a car, so I rented some space. It's amazing how much space you can use it if its available!