Aerobatic-Archive.digest.vol-ab
September 19, 2001 - October 10, 2003
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Airplane suggestions |
If you want to do more than basic aerobatics, carry two people with adequate
fuel, and acquire the airplane at a reasonable cost......buy a Yak 52. I
owned a Yak 52 for several years and now own a Yak 50 (single seat) and am
building a RV8. I will have almost as much money into my RV than I had into
my Yak 52 (bought new) and if you look at both airplanes, the Yak is a heck
of a lot more airplane. I plan on using the RV8 for cross country flight
and continue aerobatics in my Yak.
>
> I was wondering what the list thought would be a good aerobatic plane for
2
> people. I would probably prefer to build than buy but anything is OK. Of
> course I have the unsolvable requirement that it can't be overly expensive
> (which is a relative term that I'll let each poster define themselves,
> since I don't know what it is yet) and I need to be able to do acro with
> two people in it. There are a lot of nice, relatively cheap, two-place
> kits (Sonex, Sonerai, S-10 Sakota, etc) that will do sportsman aerobatics
> with only one person in the plane but it looks like all of the ones that
> can do it with two are considerably more expensive. Thanks for the help.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Airplane suggestions |
I'm also looking for a kit to build that will give me good acro performance
and two seats. I've finished building my RV-6 and use it for recreational
aerobatics. But I want something that can take more than the RV is capable.
I will keep the RV for X-C. The Zivko Edge 540T is really attracting my
attention. I called the company and they said they are considering to supply
it as a kit and to watch their website. If you are insterested in this
aircraft also, I recommend sending them an email telling them so. If they
know that a market is available, then they might hurry up and make these
planes available. Just think: Rocket performance with aerobatic nimbleness,
strength to take +/-8 g's dual.
Rick Caldwell
>From: "BUTLER, FRANCIS" <FRANCIS_BUTLER@butler-machinery.com>
>Reply-To: aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: RE: Aerobatic-List: Airplane suggestions
>Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:28:29 -0500
>
><FRANCIS_BUTLER@butler-machinery.com>
>
>
>If you want to do more than basic aerobatics, carry two people with
>adequate
>fuel, and acquire the airplane at a reasonable cost......buy a Yak 52. I
>owned a Yak 52 for several years and now own a Yak 50 (single seat) and am
>building a RV8. I will have almost as much money into my RV than I had
>into
>my Yak 52 (bought new) and if you look at both airplanes, the Yak is a heck
>of a lot more airplane. I plan on using the RV8 for cross country flight
>and continue aerobatics in my Yak.
>
>
> >
> > I was wondering what the list thought would be a good aerobatic plane
>for
>2
> > people. I would probably prefer to build than buy but anything is OK.
>Of
> > course I have the unsolvable requirement that it can't be overly
>expensive
> > (which is a relative term that I'll let each poster define themselves,
> > since I don't know what it is yet) and I need to be able to do acro with
> > two people in it. There are a lot of nice, relatively cheap, two-place
> > kits (Sonex, Sonerai, S-10 Sakota, etc) that will do sportsman
>aerobatics
> > with only one person in the plane but it looks like all of the ones that
> > can do it with two are considerably more expensive. Thanks for the
>help.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seitzer, Bettie (TEK Systems)" <Bettie.Seitzer(at)AndersenCorp.com> |
| Subject: | Airplane suggestions |
Just out of curiosity - do you have an idea of the price range for the 7eca?
This is a plane I am also interested in but have just begun looking into
what I will buy.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Aronson [mailto:aronsond(at)pacbell.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: Airplane suggestions
I am in the late stages of finishing my RV-4. I acquired a Citabria
7eca/150
hp about 6 months ago to build tail wheel time. What a mistake!!!! I
haven't
looked at the RV-4 project in months. A very inexpensive aircraft to own
and
opperate, the 7eca with 150hp conversion is a fairly good performer too.
Able
to do general accrobatics, 120mph cruise and just a lot of fun to fly. You
should consider one of these!!!
DCA
dlleedom(at)rockwellcollins.com wrote:
>
> I was wondering what the list thought would be a good aerobatic plane for
2
> people. I would probably prefer to build than buy but anything is OK. Of
> course I have the unsolvable requirement that it can't be overly expensive
> (which is a relative term that I'll let each poster define themselves,
> since I don't know what it is yet) and I need to be able to do acro with
> two people in it. There are a lot of nice, relatively cheap, two-place
> kits (Sonex, Sonerai, S-10 Sakota, etc) that will do sportsman aerobatics
> with only one person in the plane but it looks like all of the ones that
> can do it with two are considerably more expensive. Thanks for the help.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Basiliere" <discrab(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Airplane suggestions |
Sir or madam, My background: 9,000 hrs 500 hrs competitive aerobatics
flying Pitts, Decathlon, Citabria, Eagle, Yak-52, Yak-55, Su-29. My
opinion: If you like to build, I don't know. Buying a Yak-52 will be the
most "bang for the buck". It will do Sportsman with two up, Intermediate
solo - I competed with mine at US Nationals 1998 with a great (the a/c)
showing. It will fly ALL the figures in Aresti catalog plus all the
gyroscopics (tumbles) with safety. My friends ask if the Yaks are built by
John Deereski they are so tough. It has a heater, the Pitts and Eagle did
not. The down side- you will use three times the fuel and oil of any flat
motor counterpart. The US and homebuilt typically take between 2 and 4
gallons of fuel before an aero flight, round motors typically 10 to 18 gal
and burn 22-24 gph during aero. Good luck, Rick PS I don't sell 'um and
have no financial ties with those that do.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
dlleedom(at)rockwellcollins.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 7:14 AM
Subject: Aerobatic-List: Airplane suggestions
I was wondering what the list thought would be a good aerobatic plane for 2
people. I would probably prefer to build than buy but anything is OK. Of
course I have the unsolvable requirement that it can't be overly expensive
(which is a relative term that I'll let each poster define themselves,
since I don't know what it is yet) and I need to be able to do acro with
two people in it. There are a lot of nice, relatively cheap, two-place
kits (Sonex, Sonerai, S-10 Sakota, etc) that will do sportsman aerobatics
with only one person in the plane but it looks like all of the ones that
can do it with two are considerably more expensive. Thanks for the help.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Airplane suggestions |
Bettie:
look at Trade a plane. The 7ECA can me had from the high 20k to around 40k depending
on TTAF and engine
time/equipment. The 7GCAA is the same bird but with a 150hp o320. My 7ECA is
also a 150hp with a field
upgrade. The original 115 hp was quite exciting to fly, partially due to it's
gutless nature.
DCA
"Seitzer, Bettie (TEK Systems)" wrote:
>
> Just out of curiosity - do you have an idea of the price range for the 7eca?
> This is a plane I am also interested in but have just begun looking into
> what I will buy.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Aronson [mailto:aronsond(at)pacbell.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 9:37 AM
> To: aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: Airplane suggestions
>
>
> I am in the late stages of finishing my RV-4. I acquired a Citabria
> 7eca/150
> hp about 6 months ago to build tail wheel time. What a mistake!!!! I
> haven't
> looked at the RV-4 project in months. A very inexpensive aircraft to own
> and
> opperate, the 7eca with 150hp conversion is a fairly good performer too.
> Able
> to do general accrobatics, 120mph cruise and just a lot of fun to fly. You
> should consider one of these!!!
> DCA
>
> dlleedom(at)rockwellcollins.com wrote:
>
> >
> > I was wondering what the list thought would be a good aerobatic plane for
> 2
> > people. I would probably prefer to build than buy but anything is OK. Of
> > course I have the unsolvable requirement that it can't be overly expensive
> > (which is a relative term that I'll let each poster define themselves,
> > since I don't know what it is yet) and I need to be able to do acro with
> > two people in it. There are a lot of nice, relatively cheap, two-place
> > kits (Sonex, Sonerai, S-10 Sakota, etc) that will do sportsman aerobatics
> > with only one person in the plane but it looks like all of the ones that
> > can do it with two are considerably more expensive. Thanks for the help.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SargentWayne(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/19/01 |
A plane that is good for lots of things is a Hiperbipe, I have one and I'm
building another one. On 180 HP they will haul two people and 80 pounds of
baggage 150 MPH cross country, fly two-up acro( I do outside loops, tail
slides, vertical rolls, inverted push up to hammer heads, as well as all the
standard loops, rolls, spins and inverted flight, etc. There are three or
four for sale now in the $35,000 -$50,000 range. Check them out, lots of fun
flying for not much money, compared to other less capable planes( Citabria,
Decathlon, Zlin 242, Robin, etc.) Also they are enclosed, side by side so you
can actually fly with someone not just see the back of their head.
Just my opinion, and worth what it cost you.
Wayne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/19/01 |
Sounds like a nice plane. I RENT a Robin sport R2160. I think that it is
rather slow. The place we rent from put i guess a climb prop on it which
gives up great power up until about 110mph when the plane should cruise at
150mph. As for areobatics in it, I can spin it and come out so well but
loops you loose so much altitude because you practly have to bring the
throtle back to idle to keep the prop from over-reving. The loop is done at
150mph which is where the prop should be designed for cruise but oh well.
http://www.link-usa.com/hartair/ if you were interested in checking out the
plane"s". I'd lvoe to take up that t-34!!!
Justin
----- Original Message -----
From: <SargentWayne(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 11:06 PM
Subject: Aerobatic-List: Re: Aerobatic-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/19/01
>
> A plane that is good for lots of things is a Hiperbipe, I have one and I'm
> building another one. On 180 HP they will haul two people and 80 pounds of
> baggage 150 MPH cross country, fly two-up acro( I do outside loops, tail
> slides, vertical rolls, inverted push up to hammer heads, as well as all
the
> standard loops, rolls, spins and inverted flight, etc. There are three or
> four for sale now in the $35,000 -$50,000 range. Check them out, lots of
fun
> flying for not much money, compared to other less capable planes(
Citabria,
> Decathlon, Zlin 242, Robin, etc.) Also they are enclosed, side by side so
you
> can actually fly with someone not just see the back of their head.
> Just my opinion, and worth what it cost you.
> Wayne
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
Is there any activity on the aerobatic list. I recently joined to see if
any discussion of aerobatics involving an RV-6.
Ed Anderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Basiliere" <discrab(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
Occasionally, Yak away as some of would say. I fly Unlimited with Yak-55
and SU-29. Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed
Anderson
Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read]
[Monthly Posting]
Is there any activity on the aerobatic list. I recently joined to see if
any discussion of aerobatics involving an RV-6.
Ed Anderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
Ed,
We go in spurts here on the aero list. Just say something (something
inflammatory would probably work well) and away it will go.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly
Posting]
>
> Is there any activity on the aerobatic list. I recently joined to see if
> any discussion of aerobatics involving an RV-6.
>
> Ed Anderson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Starting a thread |
At 10:19 AM 10/2/2001, you wrote:
>
>Ed,
>
> We go in spurts here on the aero list. Just say something (something
>inflammatory would probably work well) and away it will go.
Spins in an RV-6 is a good starter topic.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting a thread |
Oh, my! You shan't ever do spins in a dreadfull RV-6. If you don't die
from a stroke from the blood rushing to your head and bursting one of
those darling little blood vessels, then you'll die in the impact
crater, unless, of course you survive, in which case you'll die a
horrible death from the resulting most ghastly thing of a fire as you
breathe in toxic fumes and watch the skin burn from your body, unless
you survive that which would, of course, be terribly inconvenient
because your face will be horribly, horribly disfigured so that they
won't let you go to church anymore because you'll scare all the Sunday
school children.
Boyd
RV-Super 6
SW FL--the sky is a terrible thing to waste
Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>
> At 10:19 AM 10/2/2001, you wrote:
> >
> >Ed,
> >
> > We go in spurts here on the aero list. Just say something (something
> >inflammatory would probably work well) and away it will go.
>
> Spins in an RV-6 is a good starter topic.
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
> temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
>
> Benjamin Franklin
> Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Starting a thread |
| From: | "Seitzer, Bettie (TEK Systems)" <Bettie.Seitzer(at)AndersenCorp.com> |
Here's the start of a thread. I am currently flying a Kolb Firestar
(love the ultralight feel and intimacy that it creates with the
beautiful planet we live on. However - I want to move into recreational
aerobatics and am interested in mapping a training course and looking
for a plane to purchase. I have flown several different types of
ultralights and found that planes vary a lot (duh). (Have only flown in
one plane that I didn't like - what a dog, totally unresponsive and
awkward.) I have started working toward a private pilot certificate in
order to: 1. build skills and 2. expand my options for aerobatic planes.
I would like three things: First, some advice on training. The name of
an instructor or two in the Mpls/St. Paul area and Three recommendations
of good first planes for someone who is not filthy rich.
Bettie Seitzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting a thread |
At 12:52 PM 10/2/2001, you wrote:
>
>Oh, my! You shan't ever do spins in a dreadfull RV-6. If you don't die
>from a stroke from the blood rushing to your head and bursting one of
>those darling little blood vessels, then you'll die in the impact
See, it works. Mention a controversial subject and you get flamage.
>crater, unless, of course you survive, in which case you'll die a
>horrible death from the resulting most ghastly thing of a fire as you
>breathe in toxic fumes and watch the skin burn from your body, unless
*Serious* flamage.
>you survive that which would, of course, be terribly inconvenient
>because your face will be horribly, horribly disfigured so that they
>won't let you go to church anymore because you'll scare all the Sunday
>school children.
... and religion too!
Wow, we are cooking now!
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Starting a thread |
At 01:23 PM 10/2/2001, you wrote:
>awkward.) I have started working toward a private pilot certificate in
>order to: 1. build skills and 2. expand my options for aerobatic planes.
>I would like three things: First, some advice on training. The name of
>an instructor or two in the Mpls/St. Paul area and Three recommendations
>of good first planes for someone who is not filthy rich.
I can't help you with who to go to in Many Apples but we can talk about
planes for someone who is not filthy rich. BTW, can you attach a number to
"not filthy rich"?
Since you are working toward your PPSEL the airplane you choose might
hopefully do double duty as your primary trainer too.
The two aircraft that immediately come to my mind are a Citabria or a Yak-52.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seitzer, Bettie (TEK Systems)" <Bettie.Seitzer(at)AndersenCorp.com> |
| Subject: | Starting a thread |
I have heard the citabria mentioned many times in this context. I have also
heard good things about Hiperbipe (not sure of the spelling). What does a
Yak cost? Saw those at OshKosh (flew the ultralight there - good adventure)
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd [mailto:brian(at)lloyd.com]
Subject: RE: Aerobatic-List: Starting a thread
At 01:23 PM 10/2/2001, you wrote:
>awkward.) I have started working toward a private pilot certificate in
>order to: 1. build skills and 2. expand my options for aerobatic planes.
>I would like three things: First, some advice on training. The name of
>an instructor or two in the Mpls/St. Paul area and Three recommendations
>of good first planes for someone who is not filthy rich.
I can't help you with who to go to in Many Apples but we can talk about
planes for someone who is not filthy rich. BTW, can you attach a number to
"not filthy rich"?
Since you are working toward your PPSEL the airplane you choose might
hopefully do double duty as your primary trainer too.
The two aircraft that immediately come to my mind are a Citabria or a
Yak-52.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Starting a thread |
At 01:42 PM 10/2/2001, you wrote:
>
>
>I have heard the citabria mentioned many times in this context. I have also
>heard good things about Hiperbipe (not sure of the spelling). What does a
>Yak cost? Saw those at OshKosh (flew the ultralight there - good adventure)
You get a lot of airplane in the Yak-52. I have seen used prices in the
$40K to $60K range, pretty good for a two-place tandem fully-aerobatic
aircraft with a 360hp radial engine with a constant-speed prop. It is a
bit more complex to operate than your average Cessna 150 but you *can* do
your primary training in one.
If you are interested in the Yak-52, check out the Yak Pilots Association
at http://www.yakpilots.org. There are a goodly number of pictures of
Yak-52s there. There is also a yak-list mailing list here on Matronics for
discussing Yaks and Nanchang CJ6A's.
The Citabria is your basic two-place tandem high-wing fabric-covered
aircraft that can do aerobatics. They had different engine combinations,
usually either the Lycoming O-235 115hp or the Lycoming O-320 150 hp. Some
had inverted fuel and oil systems and some didn't. Prices reflect
features. I have seen prices for Citabrias starting as low as about $20K
depending on age and condition.
If you want to operate out of a midwestern grass strip on a sunny summer
afternoon, the Citabria might suit your fancy. If you want bone-shaking,
macho fire-breathing fun, the Yak-52 might be more suitable. YMMV
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Starting a thread |
| From: | "Seitzer, Bettie (TEK Systems)" <Bettie.Seitzer(at)AndersenCorp.com> |
WE have some nice grass strips in our area that I would like to continue
to use (nice countryside - wide open air). We also have plenty of paved
runways for something needing a longer patch. Thanks for the tip on the
web site. I will sign up for the matronics yak list and lurk around
there listening for a while. Still looking for an instructor since I am
of the impression that I could benefit from some training in type by an
instructor who knows and loves the type I will be flying. Whadya think?
Bettie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Starting a thread |
If you want to learn about Yaks....go to the link listed below. This will
get you started. I owned a Yak 52 for 4 years and now fly a Yak 50. You
can't beat the aircraft performance for the money. It is a fantastic
aerobatic plane and very reliable. If you want training in type, I have
trained with Gennady Elfimov on the Yak 52 and can say that he is the best
instructor that I have had a chance to work with. I am also building a RV8
for my cross country machine. I will be installing inverted oil and fuel in
the RV. Does anyone have any aerobatic experience with the RV concerning
spins or anything else they would care to share?
http://home.earthlink.net/~yak52driver/
Francis Butler
Butler Machinery Co.
(701) 298-1758 direct
(701) 476-3208 fax
francis_butler@butler-machinery.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Basiliere" <discrab(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Starting a thread |
Yak-52, greatest aerobatic trainer in the world(so I'm prejudiced). Also,
just as far from an ultralight as any aerobatic trainer can be. Good luck
and enjoy akro. Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Seitzer,
Bettie (TEK Systems)
Subject: RE: Aerobatic-List: Starting a thread
Here's the start of a thread. I am currently flying a Kolb Firestar
(love the ultralight feel and intimacy that it creates with the
beautiful planet we live on. However - I want to move into recreational
aerobatics and am interested in mapping a training course and looking
for a plane to purchase. I have flown several different types of
ultralights and found that planes vary a lot (duh). (Have only flown in
one plane that I didn't like - what a dog, totally unresponsive and
awkward.) I have started working toward a private pilot certificate in
order to: 1. build skills and 2. expand my options for aerobatic planes.
I would like three things: First, some advice on training. The name of
an instructor or two in the Mpls/St. Paul area and Three recommendations
of good first planes for someone who is not filthy rich.
Bettie Seitzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Starting a thread |
At 02:29 PM 10/2/2001, you wrote:
>
>
>WE have some nice grass strips in our area that I would like to continue
>to use (nice countryside - wide open air). We also have plenty of paved
>runways for something needing a longer patch. Thanks for the tip on the
>web site. I will sign up for the matronics yak list and lurk around
>there listening for a while. Still looking for an instructor since I am
>of the impression that I could benefit from some training in type by an
>instructor who knows and loves the type I will be flying. Whadya think?
I definitely think you should find a good instructor who does acro. I have
a good CJ6A buddy in Many Apples who might be able to recommend an
instructor there. I will inquire and report back.
>Bettie
>
>
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 acro (Was: Starting a thread) |
><FRANCIS_BUTLER@butler-machinery.com>
>
>
>I am also building a RV8
>for my cross country machine. I will be installing inverted oil and fuel in
>the RV. Does anyone have any aerobatic experience with the RV concerning
>spins or anything else they would care to share?
I had an RV-4. Spins nicely. Rolls very nicely. Picks up speed *very*
quickly on a downline so it is easy to bust redline.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
OK!!
There IS life on the list and what shy fellows {:>) as well. Been
flying my RV-6A for a couple of years and while getting a little long in the
tooth for any serious Aerobatics ( I know the 6 is hardly the bird in any
case) , a aileron, barrel row, etc. would probably be about right. However,
while tempted (after all - I have practiced on a simulation of an RV-6 and
learned not to let the nose drop- much.), I have refrained from attempting
an aileron roll. The main reason I have refrained is because all you guys
with experience tell me doing aerobatics without some professional training
can lead to the exact sequence of events mentioned by Boyd in his vivid
rendering of the consequences of spinning an RV. Very vivid, Boyd, now I am
seriously serious about thinking twice about it.
Actually, the only things I have spun were an Aeronica Champ and a Cessna
150. The Aeronica was nice the 150 scared the S... out of me, I think I
never managed to get it fully stalled and was in spiral dives rather than a
spin - but that was 30 years ago so my member is a bit fuzzy. In any case I
am getting to the point in my life where scaring myself Sh....less no
longer thrills me - just scares me, I thought I would join the list and
mostly lurk in the weeds and perhaps live a little vicariously for a bit.
Listening to you guys should help me decide whether to go out and find that
aero instructor that has an RV-6 or just sit in front of the simulator and
be content with that.
Thanks for the response
Best Regards
Ed Anderson
Matthews, NC
RV-6A N494BW
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com> |
Ed,
It is ok to spin your RV6a but I have talked to pilots at my local
airport which tell me it winds up quickly. They say you can just have lots
of altitude and stay rigth ontop of it, dont let it get into a 20revulution
spin or anythng. Tho a spin turns in under 2 seconds, abotu 1.5seconds which
is 175degree's/seconds. Maybe more, thats quick! A roll shoudl have no
problem, there is video's of a roll and a loop in a 6a. Im building a 7a but
it WAS a 6a once but desiding the 7a would be a better choice I went that
route... I hope to do 2 person areobatic's in mine, just
loops,spins,rolls,hammerheads for me.
Justin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Aerobatic-List: Ok! Uncle!
>
> OK!!
>
> There IS life on the list and what shy fellows {:>) as well. Been
> flying my RV-6A for a couple of years and while getting a little long in
the
> tooth for any serious Aerobatics ( I know the 6 is hardly the bird in any
> case) , a aileron, barrel row, etc. would probably be about right.
However,
> while tempted (after all - I have practiced on a simulation of an RV-6 and
> learned not to let the nose drop- much.), I have refrained from attempting
> an aileron roll. The main reason I have refrained is because all you guys
> with experience tell me doing aerobatics without some professional
training
> can lead to the exact sequence of events mentioned by Boyd in his vivid
> rendering of the consequences of spinning an RV. Very vivid, Boyd, now I
am
> seriously serious about thinking twice about it.
>
> Actually, the only things I have spun were an Aeronica Champ and a
Cessna
> 150. The Aeronica was nice the 150 scared the S... out of me, I think I
> never managed to get it fully stalled and was in spiral dives rather than
a
> spin - but that was 30 years ago so my member is a bit fuzzy. In any case
I
> am getting to the point in my life where scaring myself Sh....less no
> longer thrills me - just scares me, I thought I would join the list and
> mostly lurk in the weeds and perhaps live a little vicariously for a bit.
>
> Listening to you guys should help me decide whether to go out and find
that
> aero instructor that has an RV-6 or just sit in front of the simulator and
> be content with that.
>
> Thanks for the response
>
> Best Regards
>
> Ed Anderson
> Matthews, NC
> RV-6A N494BW
> eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net> |
My advice FWIW, is get a good aerobatic instructor. Learn the basics
(upright and inverted spins, rolls, loop etc.) even if you have to do it in
another plane. Then practice what you have learned when the instructor
tells you that you have the proficiency to do so. You will be glad you did
and a better pilot for it. It will remove the fear, but hopefully not the
healthy dose of caution to be used at all times.
I am a fairly low time pilot who shortly after getting my certificate wanted
some spin training. I got hooked up with an instructor who teaches
aerobatics. After some basic upright spins, we tried some rolls before my
stomach didn't want any more. After about 4 more lessons, I was sent to
practice upright spins, rolls, loops, and immelmens. I have had more
lessons from time to time since then, and I now addditionally do inverted
flight (turns, stalls), cuban 8s, hammer heads, and inverted spins. I rent
a decathlon when I fly, and it is a good ship for my type of flying (basic
gentleman's aerobatics).
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Aerobatic-List: Ok! Uncle!
>
> OK!!
>
> There IS life on the list and what shy fellows {:>) as well. Been
> flying my RV-6A for a couple of years and while getting a little long in
the
> tooth for any serious Aerobatics ( I know the 6 is hardly the bird in any
> case) , a aileron, barrel row, etc. would probably be about right.
However,
> while tempted (after all - I have practiced on a simulation of an RV-6 and
> learned not to let the nose drop- much.), I have refrained from attempting
> an aileron roll. The main reason I have refrained is because all you guys
> with experience tell me doing aerobatics without some professional
training
> can lead to the exact sequence of events mentioned by Boyd in his vivid
> rendering of the consequences of spinning an RV. Very vivid, Boyd, now I
am
> seriously serious about thinking twice about it.
>
> Actually, the only things I have spun were an Aeronica Champ and a
Cessna
> 150. The Aeronica was nice the 150 scared the S... out of me, I think I
> never managed to get it fully stalled and was in spiral dives rather than
a
> spin - but that was 30 years ago so my member is a bit fuzzy. In any case
I
> am getting to the point in my life where scaring myself Sh....less no
> longer thrills me - just scares me, I thought I would join the list and
> mostly lurk in the weeds and perhaps live a little vicariously for a bit.
>
> Listening to you guys should help me decide whether to go out and find
that
> aero instructor that has an RV-6 or just sit in front of the simulator and
> be content with that.
>
> Thanks for the response
>
> Best Regards
>
> Ed Anderson
> Matthews, NC
> RV-6A N494BW
> eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "T Miller" <safeharbor(at)kih.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
For anyone interested in Citabria's, or their siblings, Champs, Scouts,
Decathlons, etc. check out this site.
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/citabriapilots
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
OK, I'll fess up. The RV-6 is capable of aerobatics. With a proper
understanding of the load/speed limits, the pilot can also be. I learned
most about 3D flying while following in trail an RV-4 flown by an
experienced acro type. Just keep the plane in front near the center of the
windshield and use throttle to keep the distance near constant. I did
barrel rolls before I knew what a barrel roll was. If I didn't look up
through the top of the canopy and see the ground, I wouldn't have known I
was upside down. With coaching from our lead pilot, I spin my -6
frequently. I limit it to 1 turn, though in training we did a 3 turn spin.
It starts turning fast after 2 turns and takes longer to stop.
I like doing a loop with a snap roll on top. Immelmans, cuban eights,
reverse cuban eights are also fun and easily done in the -6. It's easy to
keep less than 4.5 g's in these manuevers and I do so when carrying a
passenger. I've done a vertical roll and finish off in a skinny loop or a
hammerhead. I've screwed this up before and ended up upside down and felt
the RV start to autorotate. Power off, neutral stick and opposite rudder
stopped it and the nose then dropped through for a normal recovery. Barrel
rolls over the top of a cloud is just too much fun. If you have an RV and
don't fly in 3D, then you're missing out on a lot of fun that the airplane
is capable of.
Rick Caldwell
-6 Melbourne, FL 265 hrs.
>From: "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com>
>Reply-To: aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: Ok! Uncle!
>Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 23:18:39 -0500
>
>
>Ed,
> It is ok to spin your RV6a but I have talked to pilots at my local
>airport which tell me it winds up quickly. They say you can just have lots
>of altitude and stay rigth ontop of it, dont let it get into a 20revulution
>spin or anythng. Tho a spin turns in under 2 seconds, abotu 1.5seconds
>which
>is 175degree's/seconds. Maybe more, thats quick! A roll shoudl have no
>problem, there is video's of a roll and a loop in a 6a. Im building a 7a
>but
>it WAS a 6a once but desiding the 7a would be a better choice I went that
>route... I hope to do 2 person areobatic's in mine, just
>loops,spins,rolls,hammerheads for me.
>
>Justin
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
>To:
>Subject: Aerobatic-List: Ok! Uncle!
>
>
>
> >
> > OK!!
> >
> > There IS life on the list and what shy fellows {:>) as well. Been
> > flying my RV-6A for a couple of years and while getting a little long in
>the
> > tooth for any serious Aerobatics ( I know the 6 is hardly the bird in
>any
> > case) , a aileron, barrel row, etc. would probably be about right.
>However,
> > while tempted (after all - I have practiced on a simulation of an RV-6
>and
> > learned not to let the nose drop- much.), I have refrained from
>attempting
> > an aileron roll. The main reason I have refrained is because all you
>guys
> > with experience tell me doing aerobatics without some professional
>training
> > can lead to the exact sequence of events mentioned by Boyd in his vivid
> > rendering of the consequences of spinning an RV. Very vivid, Boyd, now
>I
>am
> > seriously serious about thinking twice about it.
> >
> > Actually, the only things I have spun were an Aeronica Champ and a
>Cessna
> > 150. The Aeronica was nice the 150 scared the S... out of me, I think I
> > never managed to get it fully stalled and was in spiral dives rather
>than
>a
> > spin - but that was 30 years ago so my member is a bit fuzzy. In any
>case
>I
> > am getting to the point in my life where scaring myself Sh....less no
> > longer thrills me - just scares me, I thought I would join the list and
> > mostly lurk in the weeds and perhaps live a little vicariously for a
>bit.
> >
> > Listening to you guys should help me decide whether to go out and find
>that
> > aero instructor that has an RV-6 or just sit in front of the simulator
>and
> > be content with that.
> >
> > Thanks for the response
> >
> > Best Regards
> >
> > Ed Anderson
> > Matthews, NC
> > RV-6A N494BW
> > eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SMOKE SYSTEMS |
| From: | tom j powers <tompowersrv6(at)juno.com> |
DOES ANY ONE HAVE A CONTACT FOR SOMEONE THAT MAKES AIRPLANE SMOKE
SYSTEMS.
RYAN INDUSTRIES OF PLEASANT VALLEY, NY APPEARS TO BE OUT OF BUSINESS.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SMOKE SYSTEMS |
At 09:18 AM 9/3/2001, you wrote:
>
>
>DOES ANY ONE HAVE A CONTACT FOR SOMEONE THAT MAKES AIRPLANE SMOKE
>SYSTEMS.
>RYAN INDUSTRIES OF PLEASANT VALLEY, NY APPEARS TO BE OUT OF BUSINESS.
The guys with CJ6As seem to just roll their own but then, they are in the
experimental category. What type of aircraft is this for? If a kit or
production, the mfgr might be able to help you.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
At 09:18 PM 10/2/2001, you wrote:
>
>Ed,
> It is ok to spin your RV6a but I have talked to pilots at my local
>airport which tell me it winds up quickly.
Dick Van Grunsvin, designer of the RV-6, recommends against spinning the
RV-6. He says spinning the -4 is fine but not the -6. This was before the
-7, -8, and -9. Seems there are some airflow issues over the rudder caused
by the different canopy configuration between the -4 and -6. I don't know
about the RV-6a specifically but with the additional area of the nose gear
ahead of the CG, I would imagine it has slightly less directional stability
than the -6 thus making spins in the -6a even dicey-er.
Now that is not to say that spinning the -6 is inherently dangerous; he did
say that it recovers normally. Still, he says that it is more violent than
many other aircraft and can be very disorienting for the uninitiated.
>They say you can just have lots
>of altitude and stay rigth ontop of it, dont let it get into a 20revulution
>spin or anythng. Tho a spin turns in under 2 seconds, abotu 1.5seconds which
>is 175degree's/seconds. Maybe more, thats quick! A roll shoudl have no
>problem, there is video's of a roll and a loop in a 6a. Im building a 7a but
>it WAS a 6a once but desiding the 7a would be a better choice I went that
>route... I hope to do 2 person areobatic's in mine, just
>loops,spins,rolls,hammerheads for me.
You really should be thoroughly familiar with an airplane's spin
characteristics and [various] recovery technique(s) before you start doing
loops and hammerheads. Get a fair bit of dual instruction in a more
traditional aerobatic trainer and then get transition training in your
aircraft.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Louis I. Willig" <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SMOKE SYSTEMS |
----- Original Message -----
From: "tom j powers" <tompowersrv6(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Aerobatic-List: SMOKE SYSTEMS
>
>
> DOES ANY ONE HAVE A CONTACT FOR SOMEONE THAT MAKES AIRPLANE SMOKE
> SYSTEMS.
> RYAN INDUSTRIES OF PLEASANT VALLEY, NY APPEARS TO BE OUT OF BUSINESS.
>
Tom,
I have a home made smoker in my RV-4, though, I'm not the person who build
it. I'm not near the aircraft, so I can't give you specifics. However, it
is a simple and effective device. A good quality three gallon plastic gas
can is strapped down in the baggage compartment with a bungee cord. It's
cap is vented with a coiled aluminum vent tube. A fuel pump( the make and
model are not in my head) is attached to the gas can handle with cushioned
loop clamps. A hole is drilled in the top of the fuel can and a flanged
fitting in this hole allows an oil pick-up tube to be connected to the "oil
pump" and keep a good seal while passing through the gas can. A really neat,
quick disconnect fitting is connected to the output end of the "oil pump",
permitting the whole can to be easily removed from the aircraft for
re-filling. The quick disconnect is a small one and fits a 3/8" OD clear
plastic hose. The hose runs from the baggage compartment, through the
firewall, and to the engine and is connected to homemade nozzle that is
welded to the right exhaust pipe. A double toggle switch near the throttle
quadrant allows momentary or continuous use. E-mail me if you need more
details. I'll try to get more info when I next go up the A/P. I don't know a
source for the quick disconnect coupling, but the RV-list plumbers will.
This thing is really neat and works well. If you really want to pour on the
smoke, however, you would want to pump about 1 1/2 gal per minute to 2
different exhaust pipes. This would create too much of a mess for most of
us. As it is now, my belly gets pretty well "oiled" if I'm not flying over
150 mph. What ever you do, don't turn on your smoker while sitting still.
You will be enveloped in a mess, your belly will be full of oil, and the
tower will call the fire trucks. How do I know this?............
Louis I. Willig
Penn Valley, PA
RV-4, IO-360, C/S 160 hrs and sitting under Class B airspace
(610) 668-4964
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
Louis,
Thanks... I needed a good hard laugh!
Chuck (Not "Chuck" from Chuck Direct)
----- Original Message -----
From: Louis I. Willig <larywil(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Aerobatic-List: SMOKE SYSTEMS
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tom j powers" <tompowersrv6(at)juno.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Fw: Aerobatic-List: SMOKE SYSTEMS
>
>
> >
> >
> > DOES ANY ONE HAVE A CONTACT FOR SOMEONE THAT MAKES AIRPLANE SMOKE
> > SYSTEMS.
> > RYAN INDUSTRIES OF PLEASANT VALLEY, NY APPEARS TO BE OUT OF BUSINESS.
> >
>
>
> Tom,
>
> I have a home made smoker in my RV-4, though, I'm not the person who build
> it. I'm not near the aircraft, so I can't give you specifics. However, it
> is a simple and effective device. A good quality three gallon plastic gas
> can is strapped down in the baggage compartment with a bungee cord. It's
> cap is vented with a coiled aluminum vent tube. A fuel pump( the make and
> model are not in my head) is attached to the gas can handle with cushioned
> loop clamps. A hole is drilled in the top of the fuel can and a flanged
> fitting in this hole allows an oil pick-up tube to be connected to the
"oil
> pump" and keep a good seal while passing through the gas can. A really
neat,
> quick disconnect fitting is connected to the output end of the "oil pump",
> permitting the whole can to be easily removed from the aircraft for
> re-filling. The quick disconnect is a small one and fits a 3/8" OD clear
> plastic hose. The hose runs from the baggage compartment, through the
> firewall, and to the engine and is connected to homemade nozzle that is
> welded to the right exhaust pipe. A double toggle switch near the throttle
> quadrant allows momentary or continuous use. E-mail me if you need more
> details. I'll try to get more info when I next go up the A/P. I don't know
a
> source for the quick disconnect coupling, but the RV-list plumbers will.
>
> This thing is really neat and works well. If you really want to pour on
the
> smoke, however, you would want to pump about 1 1/2 gal per minute to 2
> different exhaust pipes. This would create too much of a mess for most of
> us. As it is now, my belly gets pretty well "oiled" if I'm not flying over
> 150 mph. What ever you do, don't turn on your smoker while sitting still.
> You will be enveloped in a mess, your belly will be full of oil, and the
> tower will call the fire trucks. How do I know this?............
>
> Louis I. Willig
> Penn Valley, PA
> RV-4, IO-360, C/S 160 hrs and sitting under Class B airspace
> (610) 668-4964
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SMOKE SYSTEMS |
--- "Louis I. Willig" wrote:
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tom j powers" <tompowersrv6(at)juno.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Fw: Aerobatic-List: SMOKE SYSTEMS
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > DOES ANY ONE HAVE A CONTACT FOR SOMEONE THAT MAKES AIRPLANE SMOKE
> > SYSTEMS.
> > RYAN INDUSTRIES OF PLEASANT VALLEY, NY APPEARS TO BE OUT OF
> BUSINESS.
> >
>
>
> Tom,
>
> I have a home made smoker in my RV-4, though, I'm not the person who
> build
> it. I'm not near the aircraft, so I can't give you specifics.
> However, it
> is a simple and effective device. A good quality three gallon plastic
> gas
> can is strapped down in the baggage compartment with a bungee cord.
> It's
> cap is vented with a coiled aluminum vent tube. A fuel pump( the make
> and
> model are not in my head) is attached to the gas can handle with
> cushioned
> loop clamps. A hole is drilled in the top of the fuel can and a
> flanged
> fitting in this hole allows an oil pick-up tube to be connected to
> the "oil
> pump" and keep a good seal while passing through the gas can. A
> really neat,
> quick disconnect fitting is connected to the output end of the "oil
> pump",
> permitting the whole can to be easily removed from the aircraft for
> re-filling. The quick disconnect is a small one and fits a 3/8" OD
> clear
> plastic hose. The hose runs from the baggage compartment, through the
> firewall, and to the engine and is connected to homemade nozzle that
> is
> welded to the right exhaust pipe. A double toggle switch near the
> throttle
> quadrant allows momentary or continuous use. E-mail me if you need
> more
> details. I'll try to get more info when I next go up the A/P. I don't
> know a
> source for the quick disconnect coupling, but the RV-list plumbers
> will.
>
> This thing is really neat and works well. If you really want to pour
> on the
> smoke, however, you would want to pump about 1 1/2 gal per minute to
> 2
> different exhaust pipes. This would create too much of a mess for
> most of
> us. As it is now, my belly gets pretty well "oiled" if I'm not flying
> over
> 150 mph. What ever you do, don't turn on your smoker while sitting
> still.
> You will be enveloped in a mess, your belly will be full of oil, and
> the
> tower will call the fire trucks. How do I know this?............
>
> Louis I. Willig
> Penn Valley, PA
> RV-4, IO-360, C/S 160 hrs and sitting under Class B airspace
> (610) 668-4964
>
What kind of oil are you using? Corvis? (spelling)
=====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
956+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Louis I. Willig" <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SMOKE SYSTEMS |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Aerobatic-List: SMOKE SYSTEMS
> What kind of oil are you using? Corvis? (spelling)
>
>
> =====
> Gary A. Sobek
Gary,
Almost all the pros from Matt Chapman to Patty Wagstaff use Texaco Canopus
13 (previously named "Corvus"). This is actually a concrete mold release
oil that is relatively inexpensive and works very well. However there are
many products things that work pretty well, from vegetable oil to homemade
blends of motor oil/kerosene. I have used lightweight, clear, odorless
mineral oil with good results. I, too, would like to hear about other's
results.
Louis I. Willig
Penn Valley, PA 19072
(610) 668-4964
RV-4, IO-360, C/S 160 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B. Jensen" <bjensen(at)integraonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SMOKE SYSTEMS |
Another good smoke oil some are using is "Super-Dri". It has the consistency
of water and easy very easy to clean off your A/C. It smokes very well also.
Their website is: http://www.mdw-aviation.com
"Louis I. Willig" wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Fw: Aerobatic-List: SMOKE SYSTEMS
>
> > What kind of oil are you using? Corvis? (spelling)
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Gary A. Sobek
>
> Gary,
>
> Almost all the pros from Matt Chapman to Patty Wagstaff use Texaco Canopus
> 13 (previously named "Corvus"). This is actually a concrete mold release
> oil that is relatively inexpensive and works very well. However there are
> many products things that work pretty well, from vegetable oil to homemade
> blends of motor oil/kerosene. I have used lightweight, clear, odorless
> mineral oil with good results. I, too, would like to hear about other's
> results.
>
> Louis I. Willig
> Penn Valley, PA 19072
> (610) 668-4964
> RV-4, IO-360, C/S 160 hrs
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SargentWayne(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 10/02/01 |
I got interested in acro after managing to get all the vital organs back in
their proper place after an inadvertant spin while practicing power-on stalls
in a good-ole 150. When the breathing and heart beat were back to
measureable, I said ,Hey that was EXCITING! got some spin training, been
loving acro ever since. There is a good book on acro, I think it is called
Basic Aerobatic Maneuvers by Bill Kershner, he instructs in an
errorbat(Aerobat) and does amazing thing in it.
Simulators are fun but not very thrilling, no matter how bad you mess up they
can't kill you.
Have fun, Wayne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Louis I. Willig" <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SMOKE SYSTEMS |
----- Original Message -----
From: "B. Jensen" <bjensen(at)integraonline.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Aerobatic-List: SMOKE SYSTEMS
>
> Another good smoke oil some are using is "Super-Dri". It has the
consistency
> of water and easy very easy to clean off your A/C. It smokes very well
also.
>
> Their website is: http://www.mdw-aviation.com
>
Super-Dri smoke oil is supposed to be really good, but it costs
$11.50/gallon + delivery charges for a five gallon can!! There are plenty of
cheaper alternatives, if you can handle cleaning the belly more often.
Louis I. Willig
Penn Valley, PA 19072
(610) 668-4964
RV-4, IO-360, C/S 160 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "krazykat" <krazykat(at)wanadoo.fr> |
| Subject: | Re: SMOKE SYSTEMS |
Can someone tell me what's the figure for a basic smoke system i could fix
on my chipmunk ?
I would also buy a second hand system...
thanks
laurent from frogland
(dhc1 and yak11 operator)
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary A. Sobek <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Aerobatic-List: SMOKE SYSTEMS
>
> --- "Louis I. Willig" wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "tom j powers" <tompowersrv6(at)juno.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Fw: Aerobatic-List: SMOKE SYSTEMS
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > DOES ANY ONE HAVE A CONTACT FOR SOMEONE THAT MAKES AIRPLANE SMOKE
> > > SYSTEMS.
> > > RYAN INDUSTRIES OF PLEASANT VALLEY, NY APPEARS TO BE OUT OF
> > BUSINESS.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > I have a home made smoker in my RV-4, though, I'm not the person who
> > build
> > it. I'm not near the aircraft, so I can't give you specifics.
> > However, it
> > is a simple and effective device. A good quality three gallon plastic
> > gas
> > can is strapped down in the baggage compartment with a bungee cord.
> > It's
> > cap is vented with a coiled aluminum vent tube. A fuel pump( the make
> > and
> > model are not in my head) is attached to the gas can handle with
> > cushioned
> > loop clamps. A hole is drilled in the top of the fuel can and a
> > flanged
> > fitting in this hole allows an oil pick-up tube to be connected to
> > the "oil
> > pump" and keep a good seal while passing through the gas can. A
> > really neat,
> > quick disconnect fitting is connected to the output end of the "oil
> > pump",
> > permitting the whole can to be easily removed from the aircraft for
> > re-filling. The quick disconnect is a small one and fits a 3/8" OD
> > clear
> > plastic hose. The hose runs from the baggage compartment, through the
> > firewall, and to the engine and is connected to homemade nozzle that
> > is
> > welded to the right exhaust pipe. A double toggle switch near the
> > throttle
> > quadrant allows momentary or continuous use. E-mail me if you need
> > more
> > details. I'll try to get more info when I next go up the A/P. I don't
> > know a
> > source for the quick disconnect coupling, but the RV-list plumbers
> > will.
> >
> > This thing is really neat and works well. If you really want to pour
> > on the
> > smoke, however, you would want to pump about 1 1/2 gal per minute to
> > 2
> > different exhaust pipes. This would create too much of a mess for
> > most of
> > us. As it is now, my belly gets pretty well "oiled" if I'm not flying
> > over
> > 150 mph. What ever you do, don't turn on your smoker while sitting
> > still.
> > You will be enveloped in a mess, your belly will be full of oil, and
> > the
> > tower will call the fire trucks. How do I know this?............
> >
> > Louis I. Willig
> > Penn Valley, PA
> > RV-4, IO-360, C/S 160 hrs and sitting under Class B airspace
> > (610) 668-4964
> >
>
>
> What kind of oil are you using? Corvis? (spelling)
>
>
> =====
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 956+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
>
> http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | propeller for sale |
I have a Hartzell Aerobatic propeller, governer with spinner for sale. Fits
O/IO-360 Lyc. Please reply off list for more information @ yak52fly(at)aol.com.
Thanks Gil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robin Mckee" <spider(at)newulmtel.com> |
I want to know how strong the new wings are for the RV-3? Can I pull 6+
or 6- g's in maneuvers? How fast is a RV-3 with a 150 hp. motor?
Robin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
At 08:05 AM 10/9/2001, you wrote:
>
>I want to know how strong the new wings are for the RV-3? Can I pull 6+
>or 6- g's in maneuvers?
You need to check with Van's Aircraft for definitive information on this.
That said, all of Van's other aircraft are rated at +6/-3.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Farley <david.farley2(at)aspentech.com> |
>
>Can someone tell me what's the figure for a basic smoke system
>i could fix
>on my chipmunk ?
>I would also buy a second hand system...
>thanks
>laurent from frogland
>(dhc1 and yak11 operator)
You mean that the cloud of oil following your Gypsy (AKA Dripsy) Major
around isn't enough! ;-)
Dave (former Chipmunk, now Yak 52 Driver) Farley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PILOT8127(at)aol.com |
Yes,yes. 6+Gs NO problem. My wings have been modified. 7-Gs to date!
AJ- cruises 160 Kts. @ 75% (188mph.) A 150HP is 10mph. slower thru out the
speed range.
Gary (aka AJ)
INDY RVs flyout-director
(you only need one seat)
________________________________________________________________________________
please remove yak52(at)aol.com from your list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "krazykat" <krazykat(at)wanadoo.fr> |
| Subject: | Re: SMOKE SYSTEMS |
Good one...anyway if you have any idea for my secondary smoke system i will
be very grateful !
laurent from frogland
: David Farley
>
: "krazykat"
> >Can someone tell me what's the figure for a basic smoke system
> >i could fix
> >on my chipmunk ?
> >(dhc1 and yak11 operator)
>
> You mean that the cloud of oil following your Gypsy (AKA Dripsy) Major
> around isn't enough! ;-)
>
> Dave (former Chipmunk, now Yak 52 Driver) Farley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Basiliere" <discrab(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Su-29, Yak-55 for sale |
1993 SU-29, smoke, clevelands, Hooker harness, much more,180K; 1987 Yak-55,
MTV-3,clevelands, Hooker harness,more 63.5K. one for sale I'll keep/fly the
other. rab(at)disc.com, reply off list Thanks Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | NEW Matronics Email List Feature! Browse Current List |
Messages!
Dear Listers,
I have just finished building an all new Email List Web Browsing feature
for the Matronics Email Lists. The new system allows you to use your web
browser to view all of the current Email List messages. The system's
indexes display all of the current List messages sorted by Subject, Author,
Date, or Thread. Clicking on the URL links on these index pages will open
another "Viewing Window" where the messages will be displayed.
The format of the index pages and message viewing window are consistent
with the existing Matronics Archive Search Engine and should be familiar to
everyone. The messages available on this new List Browsing Feature span
the previous 7 days of email for the given List. Each day the oldest day's
messages are replaced with the current day's messages. The web pages are
updated every 30 minutes with any new messages that are posted to the List
during that time frame.
Please have a look at the new Utility and let me know what you think! For
ease of use, I've added a link to the new system on each of the List
trailers that are appended to each List email message.
I hope you will find the new system useful and also find it to be a handy
companion to the Archive Search Engine.
The new Email Browsing Utility can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
From here, you can select any of the available Email Lists.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Web Server Upgraded! Blazingly Fast Archive Searches!! |
Dear Listers,
As of this weekend, the Matronics Email List Web Server is now running on a
brand new hardware platform and the latest version of RedHat Linux! The
new hardware includes Dual 1.7GHz Xeon Processors, a 400MHz FSB
motherboard, 1GB of 800MHz RAM, a Dual-Channel 160 MB/Sec Ultra-160 SCSI
Controller, and an Ultra 160 36GB 15,000 RPM Seagate Cheetah hard
drive. The performance of the new system is, in a word, breathtaking!
In a variety of benchmark tests against the previous server, the new system
is at *least* six times faster! This means that your Archive Search Engine
queries will now come back in what seems like an instant! Single word
searches of the 113MB RV-List Archive now return in 2-3 seconds, and
searches of all other List Archives return in 1 second or
less!! Performance enhancements in the download and viewing of all other
web-based tools should also be noticeably improved as well.
Please enjoy the new system performance and don't forget, the Annual Email
List Fund Raiser is just around the corner!! :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aerobatic Instruction |
Hello all,
I have received some aerobatics instruction while on vacation in the
Phoenix area, but would like to have more consistent instruction in the
Milwaukee, WI area where I live. Does anybody have any aerobatic
contacts (instructors or other) who I could talk to in the Milwaukee
area? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Todd Wenzel
Delafield, WI
RV-8AQB - Fuse
mailto:TWenzel@Heartland-Software.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic Instruction |
--- Todd Wenzel <TWenzel@heartland-software.com> wrote:
> <TWenzel@Heartland-Software.com>
>
> Hello all,
> I have received some aerobatics instruction while on vacation in the
> Phoenix area, but would like to have more consistent instruction in
> the
> Milwaukee, WI area where I live. Does anybody have any aerobatic
> contacts (instructors or other) who I could talk to in the Milwaukee
> area? Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Todd Wenzel
> Delafield, WI
> RV-8AQB - Fuse
> mailto:TWenzel@Heartland-Software.com
Todd:
Check out:
http://www.iac.org/howtobegin/schools.html
=====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
980.3+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2001 List Fund Raiser - Please Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
During November of each year, I have a voluntary Email List Fund Raiser to
support the continued operation, development, maintenance and upgrade of
the Forums sponsored here. Your contributions go directly into
improvements in the systems that support the Lists and to pay for the
Internet connectivity primarily dedicated to supporting the Lists.
This year, I've made some substantial improvements to the Lists and the
supporting systems. These upgrades are focused on making your experience
here faster, more enjoyable, and most importantly, informative. Here is a
partial list of improvements that I've made on the systems this year:
o Upgraded Web Server
- Minimum 6X increase in performance *
- Tons more high performance disk space and memory!
- Increased availability and reliability - UPS Backup
- Improved support for > 130,000 Archive Searches each year!
* See http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/RV-SearchTime.jpg
o Email System Disk Subsystem Upgrade
- More storage and faster access times
- Faster redistribution of List Messages
- Processed over 45,000 List messages in 2001; 50,000 in 2000!
o All new List Browse Feature *
- Browse the last seven day's worth of List Messages
- Quick access to current threads
- Sort messages by Thread, Date, Subject, or Author
* See http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
o All new Photo Share Feature * &
- Simply email your photos and files to share
- Scanned for viruses
- Automatic Web Page Generation
- Includes descriptions and poster information
* See http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
& Officially to be announced soon
o Transition To High Performance Internet Service Provider
- Improved reliability
- Better access from most sites on the Internet
- Improved throughput
These are just some of the more visible improvements I've implemented this
year. I'm always working to improve the behind the scenes operation of the
Lists. I've built an elaborate system of message text and source address
filtering mechanisms to assure that you only receive text data in the
message, spam is nearly non-existent, computer viruses are never propagated
through the Lists, and that message post redistribution is smooth and
trouble free.
This year has seen a lot of improvements in the Email List experience. If
you enjoy the Forums here and make use of the many features, won't you take
a moment and make a Contribution to support the continued operation and
maintenance? Please note there is no advertising funding on the
Lists. You don't see annoying banner ads in the Email messages or on any
of the web pages. This just seems more friendly to me and makes the List
experience just that much more personal.
The operation of these Lists is supported *completely* through the
donations of List Members just like you!
Please take a moment to support your Lists by making a Secure Credit Card
Contribution at the following web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or you may send a personal check to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their Contribution and for
their continued support over the past year!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser Off to a Slow Start... |
Hi Listers,
First I want to take everyone that has taken a minute already to make a
Contribution to support the Email Lists in 2001! I also really appreciate
all the kind words I've been receiving regarding the Lists and how much
they mean to everyone. The testimonial means a lot to me and makes the
many hours working on the system worth it!! Later in the month, I'll share
a few of the kind words with the Lists.
I've added a nifty new Bar Graph Thermometer to the message trailer that
gives an up-to-the-minute percentage status of how many members have made a
Contribution during 2001! It was a fun piece of code to write and
hopefully will be a fun way to watch the Fund Raiser's Progress this year!
As I've said in the past, the Lists are supported *completely* through your
generous Contributions during the Fund Raiser and throughout the
year. This includes all of the system and connectivity upgrades we seen,
as well as makes the many hours I spend each month keeping the systems
running even more enjoyable ;-).
Won't you take a moment and make a Contribution right now to support your
Lists? Its fast and easy with the On-line, SSL secure Credit Card system,
or by direct US-Mailing a check. For complete information, please see the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance for your Generous Contribution!!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
PS - Don't forget to monitor the Fund Raiser Bar Graph below!
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What Listers Are Saying - Fund Raiser Continues... |
Dear Listers,
The 2001 List Fund Raiser is going well and I want to thank everyone that
has already so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists! Below
are some of the great comments and feedback members have been including
along with their Contributions.
Won't you make a Contribution today to support the continued operation and
upgrade of your Lists? Its fast and easy using the SSL Secure Web Site or
by simply sending a personal check. Complete information can be found at
Contribution web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
A give a special Thank You to all of those that have already contributed so
far this year!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
================== What Listers Are Saying ====================
Great information site.
- Edward S.
This is the first thing I look at every day.
- Ralph M.
The new List option is WONDERFUL!
- Kenyon B.
...new Search Software is absolutely fantastic!!
- Bruce K.
...essential to my enjoyment of RV building and flying.
- Douglas W.
Great List!
- Randall H.
...an invaluable service!
- Carlos S.
...incredible service to the industry!
- Alex M.
Building wouldn't be the same without the "Great List".
- Tom E.
...has helped the building process immensely.
- Hap S.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Have You Tried the New List Browse Feature?? |
Hi Listers,
I've been getting a LOT of very positive feedback on the new Email List
Browsing feature I added to the suite of List services a couple of weeks
ago. A number of List members have written to say that they love the new
List Browser because they can keep tabs on the latest List messages
throughout the day without having to constantly check their email or wait
for the Digest issue to come out.
The List Browse Function allows you to use your web browser to view the
current 7 day's worth of List messages for the give List. The indexes are
updated every 30 minutes with any new messages that have been posted. You
can sort all of the message indexes by Thread, Subject, Author, or Date and
easily track and find current threads.
You can check out the New List Browse Feature by going to the following URL
and clicking on the List of your choice:
http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
Please remember that November is List Fund Raiser month!! The continued
operation and upgrade of the Email Lists are _entirely_ supported by YOUR
Contributions and support. You'll never see annoying, flashing banner ads,
or other forms of commercialism on these Lists. Just people sharing
information, data, and stories about your favorite topic, plain (plane?)
and simple.
If you enjoy the Lists and all of the services here, won't you take moment
and make a quick Contribution? It fast and easy using the SSL Secure Web
site with your Visa or MasterCard. Or, you can also send a personal check
to the address listed below.
SSL Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
USMail: Matt Dralle
c/o Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551-0347
Don't forget that the "List of Contributors" will be coming out in just a
few short weeks! Don't you want to make sure you're name is on it?
I would like to wish a special "Thank You" to everyone that has made a
Contribution so far this year!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Free Copy of Van's New "THE RV STORY" Video! |
Hey Listers!
In support of the 2001 Email List Fund Raiser, Andy Gold of The Builder's
Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com/ ) is donating a FREE COPY of the
new edition of Van's "The RV Story" video (VHS) to any Email List Member
making a Contribution of $50 or more!
To take advantage of this wonderful Offer, please include the following
information along with your Contribution, either in the Message Box if you
Contribute on-line, or on a slip of paper if your Contribution is by check
via the USMail:
Van's RV Story Video Offer
$50 or Greater Contributor
[your name]
[your shipping address]
[your City, State and Zip Code]
If you've already made a Contribution in 2001 of $50 or more and would like
to receive the video, please drop me an email ( dralle(at)matronics.com ) and
include the information shown above with the words "Video Offer" in the
Subject line.
Please note that this new edition of "The RV Story" will first be available
in about 8 weeks.
I want to thank Andy Gold and the Builder's Book Store for this *very
generous* Contribution! If you haven't taken a moment to check out The
Builder's Book Store web site yet, you owe it to yourself to have a look (
http://www.buildersbooks.com/ ). Andy has a fabulous selection of
interesting, informative, and exceptionally useful books and videos on his
site. Please have a look!
Again, I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a
Contribution so far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Your Contributions
make all of the Lists and Services found here possible - period.
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What They're Saying... |
Hi Listers,
The 2001 List Fund Raiser is currently underway and lot's of people have
been making their Contribution and saying a lot of very nice things about
the Lists and what they're daily-dose of Forum means to them! I've
included a few more of the Lister comments below.
Won't you take a moment to support your Lists this month? Its fast and
easy by making a Secure Credit Card Contribution at the following web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or by sending a personal check Contribution to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
For Complete information on the upgrades and improvements the Lists and
servers have undergone this year, have a look at this URL:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=113171908?KEYS=asdfasdf?LISTNAME=RV?HITNUMBER=4?SERIAL=1942094803?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
Here's few more of the comments I've been receiving about what the Lists
mean to its members:
======================
Not only a great way to help each other out, it's been
a wonderful way to meet new friends. - Fred H.
The List is invaluable to me...
- Russell W.
I absolutely love your Lists...
- Scott C.
...you are tying all the builders together.
- David A.
The Lists continue to be an invaluable source of
information. - Jeff O.
I look forward to reading my Email every day...
- Harvey S.
They are invaluable resources to builders of all
skill levels. - Kevin H.
...another year of excellent service.
- Terry W.
Way cool setup.
- Chuck R.
...source of information, inspiration, support,
and camaraderie. - Carlos S.
I'd be lost without them...
- Jeff O.
======================
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Hi Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st
I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support
the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a
minute to show their appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of
Contributors? As a number of people have pointed out, the List seems at
least, if not a whole lot more, valuable as a building/flying/recreating
tool as a typical your magazine subscription. We won't even talk about a
newsstand price... :-)
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming
LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to
support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa or M/C on the SSL Secure
Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by popping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
!! Don't forget !!
Andy Gold of the Builder's Book Store ( http://www.buildersbooks.com/ ) has
generously donated a FREE copy of Van's new "The RV Story" video to anyone
making a Contribution of $50 or more to support the Lists. For complete
information on the _awesome_ offer, please see this URL:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=113629625?KEYS=asdf?LISTNAME=RV?HITNUMBER=1?SERIAL=23392130806?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
To make sure you get your video, be sure to follow the instructions at the
URL above carefully!
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution
thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support
that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a
little comment about how the Lists have helped you! I love to feel the
love... :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Michael Brown... |
Hi Listers,
In support of the 2001 Email List Fund Raiser, Michael Brown of Brown
Aviation Tool Supply Co. ( http://www.browntool.com ) has generously
offered to provide Gift Certificates to all Listers making Contributions of
$30 or more this year!
Making your Contribution to support these Email Lists and to qualify for
the Brown Tool Gift Certificate is fast and easy by using the SSL Secure
Credit Card Contribution Web Site at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or by sending a personal check Contribution to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
According to Michael, "The Gift Certificates have absolutely no strings
attached and are as good as cash for anything from the Brown Tool Web Site
or Catalog."
The amount of your Gift Certificate is based on the size of your List
Contribution and is according to the following:
$100 or greater Contribution receives a $25 Gift Certificate!
or
$30-$99 Contribution receives a $10 Gift Certificate!
==================== How To Receive Your Certificate ====================
To receive your Brown Tool Gift Certificate, send an email message to:
browntooloffer(at)matronics.com
and include the following information:
1) Subject Line: Tool Offer
2) Which Gift Certificate you qualify for ($10 or $25)
3) [Your Name]
4) [Your Mailing Address]
5) [Your City, State Zip]
** Please only use the email address shown above (
browntooloffer(at)matronics.com ) to request your Gift Certificate!
*** Anyone making a List Contribution of $30 or more in 2001 qualifies for
the Gift Certificate!
==================== How To Receive Your Certificate ====================
You should receive your Gift Certificate from Brown Tool in about 2-4 weeks.
I want to thank Michael Brown of Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. for this
wonderful offer in support of the Email Lists! If you haven't yet had a
look at the Brown Tool Web Site ( http://www.browntool.com ), then you own
it to yourself to take a peek! He has some great deals and good quality tools.
And finally, I would like to thank everyone that has already made a
Contribution in this year's Fund Raiser! Its YOUR support that keeps these
Lists running and NOT ADVERTISING and FLASHING BANNER ADS...
Thank you!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What Can You Say...? |
Dear Listers,
I've been getting a ton great comments on what the Lists mean to its
members and I've included a few of them below. I'm sure _most_ of you can
echo one or more of these sentiments to the tune of a nice List
Contribution... :-)
Just one more week until I post the 2001 List of Contributors! Won't you
support the continued operation of these Lists by making a Contribution
today and assure your place on the upcoming Contributor List? I'm sure
your friends will be checking for your name on the LOC... ;-)
SSL Secure Web Visa and MasterCard Contributions:
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Personal Check via the US Mail:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551-0347
I want to thank everyone that has already made a Contribution this
year! YOU make these Lists possible!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
===========================================================================
Can't live without my List everyday!
- John B.
Information you can't get anywhere else.
- George D.
...one of the finest List sites on the Internet.
- Dennis S.
This List has saved my bacon more than once!
- Larry H.
Really invaluable service for a novice builder.
- John B.
...got some useful help from the List.
- Rocky S.
A valuable resource.
- Dennis N.
This List is a Super resource...
- Dwight F.
...couldn't have gotten this far without the
resources on the List.
- Jerry C.
Great service to us builders...
- Ronald M.
...someday we'll all meet in RV Heaven. Hey,
how come there isn't an "RV-Heaven" List?
- Louis W.
The info I've gleaned from the List has saved
me several thousand dollars...
- Kevin H.
...the only International, Interesting, Up-to-date,
List with the best search engine ever!
- Hans L.
...check it ever day so I don't miss anything.
- Jim B.
Great List!
- Douglas G.
This List has saved me a few times already...
- Thomas R.
...part of my morning wake up reading.
- Dwight F.
...helped my make my plane better, safer, better
looking, and built it quicker.
- Kevin H.
Have bought many items from the info the List gives.
- Jim B.
You meet the nicest people here.
- George D.
Informative, Amusing, Entertaining...
- John B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Don't Miss The Video... |
Hey Listers!
Just a reminder that in support of the 2001 Email List Fund Raiser, Andy
Gold of The Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com/ ) is
donating a FREE COPY of the new edition of Van's "The RV Story" video (VHS)
to any List Member making a Contribution of $50 or more!
To take advantage of this wonderful Offer, please include the following
information along with your Contribution, either in the Message Box if you
Contribute on-line, or on a slip of paper if your Contribution is by check
via the USMail:
Van's RV Story Video Offer
$50 or Greater Contributor
[your name]
[your shipping address]
[your City, State and Zip Code]
If you've already made a Contribution of $50 or more during the 2001 Fund
Raiser and would still like to receive the video, please drop me an email (
dralle(at)matronics.com ) and include the information shown above with the
following Subject Line:
Subject: Video Offer
Please note that this new edition of "The RV Story" will first be available
in about 8 weeks.
I want to thank Andy Gold and the Builder's Book Store for this *very
generous* Contribution! If you haven't taken a moment to check out The
Builder's Book Store web site yet, you owe it to yourself to have a look (
http://www.buildersbooks.com/ ). Andy has a fabulous selection of
interesting, informative, and exceptionally useful books and videos on his
site. Please have a look!
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution
so far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Just a few more days until I send
out the List of Contributors for 2001. Make your Contribution today to
make sure your name is on the LOC!!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Brown Tool Gift Certificate Reminder... |
Hi Listers,
Just a reminder that in support of the 2001 Email List Fund Raiser, Michael
Brown of Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. ( http://www.browntool.com ) has
generously offered to provide Gift Certificates to all Listers making
Contributions of $30 or more this year!
Making your Contribution to support these Email Lists and to qualify for
the Brown Tool Gift Certificate is fast and easy by using the SSL Secure
Credit Card Contribution Web Site at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or by sending a personal check Contribution to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
According to Michael, "The Gift Certificates have absolutely no strings
attached and are as good as cash for anything from the Brown Tool Web Site
or Catalog."
The amount of your Gift Certificate is based on the size of your List
Contribution and is according to the following:
$100 or greater Contribution receives a $25 Gift Certificate!
or
$30-$99 Contribution receives a $10 Gift Certificate!
==================== How To Receive Your Certificate ====================
To receive your Brown Tool Gift Certificate, send an email message to:
browntooloffer(at)matronics.com
and include the following information:
1) Subject Line: Tool Offer
2) Which Gift Certificate you qualify for ($10 or $25)
3) [Your Name]
4) [Your Mailing Address]
5) [Your City, State Zip]
** Please only use the email address shown above (
browntooloffer(at)matronics.com ) to request your Gift Certificate!
*** Anyone making a List Contribution of $30 or more in 2001 qualifies for
the Gift Certificate! But, you have to follow the instructions above to
receive it!
==================== How To Receive Your Certificate ====================
You should receive your Gift Certificate from Brown Tool in about 2-4 weeks.
I want to thank Michael Brown of Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. for this
wonderful offer in support of the Email Lists! If you haven't yet had a
look at the Brown Tool Web Site ( http://www.browntool.com ), then you own
it to yourself to take a peek! He has some great deals and good quality tools.
I would like to thank everyone that has already made a Contribution in this
year's Fund Raiser!
Thank you!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Contributors Down By 25%... |
Dear Listers,
First I want to thank everyone that has already so generously made a
Contribution toward this year 2001 List Fund Raiser. It is your support
that makes these Lists possible.
Since there are only a couple more days until the official end of this
year's drive, I want to share some statistics regarding this and previous
Fund Raiser percentages. In years past, the percentage of members making a
Contribution to support the Lists has typically been right around 23% of
the total List population. This year, however, you'll note from the
Contribution Meter that we're only at a little over 16% for some
reason. This is down by roughly 7%, and translates into about a *30%
decrease* in participation this year!
I'm hoping that everyone is just waiting until the very last minute to make
their Contribution this year, and that the needle on the Contribution Meter
will still creep up to the normal 23% in the next few days! Saturday or
Sunday I will be posting the 2001 List of Contributors, so you'll want to
heat up that Contribution Web Site right away to make sure your name is on
the 2001 LOC!!
The SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
The US Mail Address:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550-7227
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] - Why Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? |
Listers,
A couple List Members have asked if the Lists are "in trouble financially"
and wanted to know if this is why I was having a Fund Raiser. It got to
thinking that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also
take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here provide
a far better experience than the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with
running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the
annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I
have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the
members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to
sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From
the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great
majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List
systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage
members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer a great many
benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first
feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you *cannot*
receive a computer v*rus from any of my Lists directly. I've been on a few
other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected
files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their
posts. This just can't happen with my Lists; each incoming message is
filtered and attachments stripped off prior to posting. I provide a Photo
and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with
other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be
prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and
simple. Also, with this photo and file sharing technique, the Archives
don't get loaded up with a great amount of bitmap "data" that slows the
Archive Search times.
Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are
available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the
way back to the very beginning of each List and with the super fast Search
Engine, the huge size of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the
data you're looking for. Another feature of the Archives, in my opinion,
is that they have been primarily stripped of all the useless email header
data and all the other header garbage that seems to build up in a typical
email thread.
I have received an extremely positive response from Listers regarding the
new List Browse feature and the consensus is that the format and ease of
use is outstanding. Members report that having the previous 7 days worth
of messages online for easy browsing and sorting is hugely beneficial. And
again, as with the real time distribution of List email, the messages are
stripped of all the unnecessary email headers and potentially dangerous
v*ruses.
I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain
since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew who where
building RVs. It has grown into nearly 40 different aviation-related Email
Lists and an associated web site that receives over 500,000 hits each
month!! With all the dot.bombs these days, I think there's a lot of value
in supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing
and improving a high quality service at a price that's nearly free.
I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows
in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email
Message, Search the Archives, or use the List Browser. The Lists will be
here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free,
that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and
receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual
List Fund Raiser!
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
------------------------------------------
The SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
The US Mail Address:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550-7227
------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Free Stuff Reminder... |
Dear Listers,
Don't forget that you can receive a free copy of Van's new Video, "The RV
Story" with a $50 or greater contribution this year, or a $10 Gift
Certificate from Brown Tool for a $30 or greater contribution or a $25 Gift
Certificate for a $100 contribution. Below are two URLs for complete
information on the two Offers. Please follow the respective instructions
*carefully*.
Van's Video Offer Information:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=5781141?KEYS=asdf?LISTNAME=Yak?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=09092616692?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
Brown Aviation Tool Gift Certificate Information:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=5838463?KEYS=asdf?LISTNAME=Yak?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=09080216166?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
I want to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore and Michael Brown of
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. for their generous offers in support the
Lists this year!! Thank you, guys!
I'd like to thank everyone that has already made a generous Contribution in
support of the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Listers,
Below are some of the comments I've received just this week alone from
members along with their Contributions to support the Lists! What can I
say? Wow. I really appreciate the kind words and extremely positive
feedback and I would encourage you to read over a few of comments below. I
think they really say a mouthful...
The last couple of days have seen a huge increase in support!! Thank you
to all that have Contributed and to those that have rallied support for the
Lists! Since the response has been so wonderful recently, I plan to delay
the posting of the 2001 List of Contributors a few days to assure that
everyone will be included!
Won't you make your Contribution today to support the Lists?
------------------------------------------
The SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
The US Mail Address:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550-7227
------------------------------------------
Thank you to everyone for the kind words and support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
======== Some Great Comments on What The Lists Mean to its Members ==========
...great source of information, education,
relaxation, frustration, and socialization.
- John H.
Can't imagine what it would be like building
with out the Lists...
- Steven E.
Look forward to the list every day.
- Parker T.
I really enjoy reading the banter...
- Wesley H.
...enjoy the patter on construction tips and
possible problem areas.
- Richard N.
Couldn't have built my RV-4 without the List
and archives!!
- Warren M.
I have found the list to be a great help,
especially for a first time builder.
- Peter D.
I thoroughly enjoy the List.
- Larry B.
The List is a great resource.
- Dennis K.
The list is great entertainment.
- Gary Z.
Can't say enough about the good information
that I have received from reading the List.
- Robert C.
...it's the best!
- Steve F.
I'm addicted to the List!
- Rodney B.
The list has been a wonderful resource of
knowledge.
- Doug B.
As a first time builder, the lists have
been my most important source of information.
- James V.
It [read the List] is the first thing I do
every day is see what's new.
- Billie F.
The information available through the List
has made my flying safer...
- Dave R.
I get much more information about my plane
from this List than from all of my aviation
magazines combined.
- Roger H.
I love the list!!!!
- Ken L.
Much better value than a magazine subscription.
- Ted M.
...found it very useful.
- Allan J.
...this list has been a great service to me.
- Peter F.
I cannot express just how USEFUL the Lists are.
- Geoff T.
...a tremendous help to my RV-8 project and
a way to meet some of the best people going.
- Steve G.
The List is invaluable, and the best I've
ever seen.
- Ed C.
Like another family for many of us.
- John H.
The lists have saved a bunch of calls to
Van's for guidance.
- James V.
I think I'm addicted...
- Terry C.
Love it!
- David W.
The information really helps...
- Jim P.
...I find [it] very informative.
- Real D.
...List keeps me motivated... - Cliff M.
The exchange of information is really helpful...
- M.N.
Lots of great info on the List.
- Larry D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Micro-Air Radio is Sold |
Okay... enough already. The radio has been sold to Tom in Arizona. Thank
you all for your interest.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New Photo Share Main Index Page - The Detail You Asked |
For...
Hi Listers!
I've been noticing a lot of people having fun with the new Email List Photo
and File Share feature and I've seen a great many hits on the various
member pages.
A number of you wrote to say that some additional topic data on the Main
Photo Share Index page would certainly be helpful and I would have to agree.
It took a little programming, and it was a job retrofitting to all of the
older Shares, but I think you'll be pleased with the outcome! I've added
Poster Name, Photo Share Subject, and Target Email List data to the Main
Index. Clicking on a Subject text opens a new window with the Photo Share
and the thumbnails.
Have a look and feel free to submit your photos for sharing! The
instructions are at the top of the Main Photo Share Index Page.
The URL is:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
Enjoy!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [ PLEASE READ ] : Matronics Network Upgrade Mon. 12/17/01 |
Listers,
According to my ISP, Speakeasy, they will be doing some sort of "backbone
upgrade" Monday, 12/17/01. Their message doesn't mention whether or not
this will impact connectivity for any length of time. I wanted everyone to
know that there might be a time when access to the Matronics Web Server and
Email Lists might be unavailable. If there's a problem, I'll post a
message from a different email address with details.
Bottom line: Hopefully nobody will notice...
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-list(at)matronics.com, aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | Jim Thomson <jthomson(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | IO-540 C4B5 For Immediate Sale |
Lycoming IO-540-C4B5 Narrow Deck For Immediate Sale
Built for recently deceased HR II
Serial # L-5725-40
Millennium Cylinders
10:1 Pistons
Engine blueprinted and dynamically balanced
Cylinder heads ported, polished, and flow matched
Cold air induction system (Barrett)
Fuel System Fm200 (Air Flo)
Slick Mags
Ignition
Starter Alternator
Vacuum Pump
TTSOH 6.9 Hours
Prop strike, torn down and rebuilt by
Performance Aero
La Verne, CA
Contact Ron Monson 909.593.5008 for detailed info
and complete engine history.
Beautiful engine, ready to go. Ran ultra smooth
during its oh so brief lifetime. Easy 315-325HP!
Have pictures if you need them. Great deal.
$31 (other accessories negotiable)
By
Jim Thomson
4639 Camden Drive
Corona del Mar, CA 92625
949.294.9940 (Cell)
949.640.2172 (Home)
________________________________________________________________________________
engine-list(at)matronics.com, aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | Jim Thomson <jthomson(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | For Sale: IO-540 C4B5 Narrow Deck |
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text/html
--- StripMime Errors ---
A message with no text/plain section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using plaintext formatting
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SargentWayne(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 01/29/02 |
I'm an acro-nut in Washington State, fly a Hiperbipe and just completing a
new Hiperbipe. I will be in Atlanta March 5 thru March 10, does anyone know a
CFI close by, that I could fly with for a spin refresher and BFR?
Thanks, Wayne Sargent
Reply off list sargentwayne(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harry21556(at)aol.com |
Wayne,
Best bet would be to email Larry King, President of IAC Chapter 3. If
anyone would know he would. I've met Larry and he seems to be a great guy and
Chapter 3 seems to be very active. I'm sure there will be several CFIs in the
area, but I don't know any myself. Larry's email is lrking(at)mindspring.com
Hope this helps,
Harry
Atlanta
In a message dated 01/30/2002 11:23:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SargentWayne(at)aol.com writes:
<< I will be in Atlanta March 5 thru March 10, does anyone know a
CFI close by, that I could fly with for a spin refresher and BFR?
Thanks, Wayne Sargent >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | O-320-A2B & CS Prop |
I've just bought an O-320-A2B for my RV-6. This engine (from a hombebuilt),
has a pad for a governor and a drilled crankshaft, which I don't think came
with it from Lycoming. I had planned to use a fixed pitch prop, but now I'm
leaning toward a CS prop. Do you think that combination (i.e. CS prop) will be
suitable for light, sport aerobatics? I won't be doing anything that involves
high yaw or pitch rates, just your basic rolls, loops, cubans, and so on. My
concern is the added weight and gyro effect of the CS prop on a non-aerobatic
model of engine.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Belated List of Contributors #2... |
Dear Listers,
I'd like to apologize for the delay in posting the 2001 List of
Contributors Number 2, as well as getting behind in the List Photo
Shares. Here's my sad story... Over the Christmas holidays, I was working
out in the shop on a rotating drum sander. I was sanding out the woofer
hole in a speaker enclosure and, long story short, the part got away from
me and started spinning like a Hula hoop on the drum. Rather than just
turning the machine off like I should have done, I tried to grab the part
and in the process badly broke the ring fingers on *both* my right and left
hands!! I had to go in for surgery on the left hand because of the joint
damage and was stuck in a thing called an "external fixator" for almost 4
weeks. The right hand has healed up well, but the left one is very stiff
and I'm currently only getting about 70 degrees of bend. The doctor says
that I will get 80-90% of the moment back with a great deal of therapy and
I'm going to hold them to that...
The moral of the story is that even a sander can be a dangerous tool. I
had been working with a table saw, drill press, scroll saw, and high power
routers all day long and afforded them all the respect they deserved. But
with the sander, I never even thought about how things could go bad. It
just didn't seem like a dangerous tool. Be careful out there in the
shop. In a moment you can hurt yourself; hurt yourself in such a way that
you will have to live with the damage the rest of your life. Nothing is
worth that.
I'm finally back working on the computer and getting back to email and
other stuff. Later today I will be processing the mound of Photo Shares
that have backed up while I was out. I also just finished up the 2001 List
Contributions and have included the List Number 2 below.
I want to thank everyone that has so generously contributed to the List
this past year! It is your Contributions that make these Lists possible.
I understand that the Van's Videos from the Builder's Bookstore should be
shipping very soon if not already, and the discount coupons from Brown
Tools should already have arrived. Thanks again to Andy Gold and Michael
Brown for their generous support of the Lists this year with these giveaways!
Oh, and now that my fingers are working pretty well again, I've decided to
go ahead and finish my RV-4!! I had a LOT of guilt over wanting to sell
it... :-)
Happy Building and Flying!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Alexander, Don
Alexander, George
Andrews, Jim
Anonymous
Blake, James
Bowman, John
Buryl, Hill
Butler, Sherman
Cantrell, Jimmy
DeRuiter, Marcel
Deffner, David
Graumlich, Tom
Griffin, Randy
Harbour, Keith
Hunt, Robin
Jannon, Terence
Johnson, Jackie
Kahn, Steve
Labhart, Norm
Laird, David
Larson, Joe
Licking, Larry
Maynard, Brad
Navratil, Richard
Noonan, Thomas
Petersen, Paul
Reed, Gary
Rogers, Ken
Salter, Phillip
Schmit, John
Schultz, David
Sheffield, Ray
Smith, Edmond
Staley, Dick
Utterback, Tom
Uvanni, Bruce
Williams, Henry
Wilson, Robert
Woodward, Don
Worthington, Victor
Zirges, Malcom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Belated List of Contributors #2... |
Hi Matt,
Certainly sorry to hear about your encounter with the sander and
especially your injuries. I also would never have considered the sander a
dangerous tool - that is, before your report on your encounter. Truly
appreciate you reporting the incident - I know I will never treat a sander
in the same manner again.
Here hoping for a rapid and complete recovery for a great guy
Best Regards
Ed Anderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Free Thunderbird, Blue Angels videos |
Free Thunderbird, Blue Angels videos
I've got 5 copies of a Thunderbirds / Blue Angles video which we'll give
away for Free to the first 5 people who ask for it along with any other
regular order from Builder's Bookstore.
It's a 50 minute video, 1/2 on the Thunderbirds, and 1/2 on the Blue
Angels. The Thunderbird segment is excellent. The Blue Angels section
is not as good.
To get one, just write FREE THUNDERBIRDS VIDEO in the special
instructions box on the Builder's Bookstore on-line order form, or say
so if you prefer to order something by phone.
Also, in case you are caller #6 or later, note if your regular order
depends on whether there is a free video left to include in your
package.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://buildersbooks.com
800 780-4115
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Novack <enovack(at)optonline.net> |
Hi list members,
I'm very new to aerobatics, just took my first aerobatic lesson last
Tuesday(with Gyroscopic Obsessions in Long Island NY), and enjoyed it
immensely. I've been lurking on this list for a couple of years, and have
noticed that the activity, seems to be very erratic. Is their a reason? Are
you guys too busy flying.
Anyway I intend to continue with the aerobatic course, and then look for
some basic aerobatic capable aircraft to continue practicing. Does any have
a recommendation, something less expensive than an Extra 300 please.
Ed Novack
enovack(at)optonline.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)comcast.net> |
>
>Hi list members,
>
>
>Anyway I intend to continue with the aerobatic course, and then look for
>some basic aerobatic capable aircraft to continue practicing. Does any have
>a recommendation, something less expensive than an Extra 300 please.
>
>Ed Novack
>enovack(at)optonline.net
Ed,
One of the best aerobatic training (and even all-around cross country)
aircraft is a Decathalon.
Louis
Louis I Willig
1640 Oakwood Dr.
Penn Valley, PA 19072
610 668-4964
RV-4, 195 hrs., 190 HP C/S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wes Warner <wes(at)lppcs.com> |
Ed,
I am on several aerobatic lists, the most active of which seems to be
the one run through...
http://acro.harvard.edu/ACRO/iac_email.html
As for aerobatic planes for a resonable amount of $$, I own a Yak 55M.
Ther are a decent amount of them out there, and the cost is around $50k
for most of them. It is only single seat so most of the instruction
you'd receive would have to be from the ground, or in a rented plane.
Yak 52's are decent planes up to intermediate (IMO), seat 2, and are
reasonably priced as well.
Good Luck,
Wes
>
> Hi list members,
>
> I'm very new to aerobatics, just took my first aerobatic lesson last
> Tuesday(with Gyroscopic Obsessions in Long Island NY), and enjoyed it
> immensely. I've been lurking on this list for a couple of years, and have
> noticed that the activity, seems to be very erratic. Is their a reason? Are
> you guys too busy flying.
>
> Anyway I intend to continue with the aerobatic course, and then look for
> some basic aerobatic capable aircraft to continue practicing. Does any have
> a recommendation, something less expensive than an Extra 300 please.
>
> Ed Novack
> enovack(at)optonline.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
>
>Anyway I intend to continue with the aerobatic course, and then look for
>some basic aerobatic capable aircraft to continue practicing. Does any have
>a recommendation, something less expensive than an Extra 300 please.
Given that you are just a beginner I would stick with a basic aircraft. In
this category I would consider the following:
Citabria/Decathlon
Yak-52
You can do a lot with these two airplanes. I am not sure about the
Citabria/Decathlon but I know you can do outside and tumbling/gyroscopic
maneuvers with the Yak-52.
If you like biplanes:
Christen Eagle
Pitts S-2
Starduster-II
Steen Skybolt
You can get factory-built or amateur-built versions of the first two. The
latter two are only available as amateur-built so you have to be more
careful about making sure that what you get is properly constructed. I
would consider getting one that is ready for recovering so you can strip it
and fully inspect the structure before recovering. Still, amateur-built
aircraft can be a good value if you know what you are getting into.
I have a CJ6A for sale and it is fun for basic positive-G acro but if you
want to go beyond the beginner and sportsman categories you will want
something more capable.
My experience with the CJ6A and Yak-52s as part of teaching FAST formation
flying gives me a very positive bias toward the eastern bloc aircraft. Of
the airplanes I mentioned above, I would probably go with the Yak-52 as my
first choice.
When I do transition training for pilots into the CJ6A it takes about 40
minutes of taxiing for them to get the hang of the pneumatic brakes and
steering but once they do that it is a no-brainer. The airplane also has
the most delightful control harmony and feel of anything I have ever flown.
Good luck on your search.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | 39 ASEW/E32/AC1 <39asew.e32.ac1(at)incirlik.af.mil> |
Ed,
Congratulations on your first aerobatic lesson. Makes you wonder what
you've been missing all of these years. I highly recommend you stick with
the instruction for at least 5 more hours even if you plan to maybe drop it
later. The experience you will gain with an instructor is well worth the
time and money. The experience you gain just doing aerobatics will also
make you a phinominaly better and safer pilot in the end. You will come to
know aircraft and flying like you never have before. Up and down take on a
whole new meaning. Pulling back on the stick no longer means the houses get
smaller, does it? Actually it never has. The degree of pull or push only
has to do with getting heavier or lighter (G-forces) not up or down.
Anyhow I learned to fly at age 15 and have been flying upside down in
military jets and civilian aircraft since 1988. I've flown all kinds of
different aerobatic aircraft (T-37, T-38, Citaborea's, Decathalons, yes even
a P-51D mustang with the real Merlin 1650 HP engine).
Let me tell you something. There aint nothing like flying a sport aerobatic
homebuilt. Let me tell you why. The military jets are out of your reach
unless you want to join up. By the way the T-38 goes so fast that evan at
6.5 G's continuous you can't do a loop in less that 50 seconds. How many
maneuvers can you accoplish with only 1.2 hours of usable fuel on board?
The sound of a jet is not even close to the sound of freedom. To me it is
the sound of ultimate control. The military has ulimate control over
everything you do with that aircraft. Give me a civilain job and a prop
airplane anyday.
As for the P-51D. I flew it againts an RV-4 in formation aerobatics and the
RV-4 kicked my hiny, mainly because I had to slow down to 200 kts so he
could keep up. A good point to note here. Civilian aircraft that are
capable of 350 -400 kts come few and far between, and are very expensive to
own and operate. Trying to get a couple of those babies together to fly
formation and aerobatics takes a small forturn and alot of arm twisting.
Now my thoughts on the Citaborea and Decathalon or just about any production
built aerobatic aircraft are pretty dismal. Great for basic instruction,
but designed back in the 1940s. Low tech aerofoils, heavy by my standards,
underpowered (180 hp Decath ok), flight controls are heavy and the aircraft
are aerodynamically out of balance for doing percision work. Very safe,
though, and they give you tail wheel experience. Not very cheep to rent
either.
Have you ever flown in an RV-4 or RV-6 or how about a Lancair 320 or 360?
Now that's aerobatic. The aircraft are light, they don't bleed off energy
as fast due to modern airfoils, the controls are extremely light at all
airspeeds and they usually come with a 160 - 180 Hp. Get a ride some time
from the guys at your local EAA chapter. You can find one in your area by
looking them up at www.eaa.org or go to www.vansaircraft.com. Price to own
a day VFR model, around $40,000. Night IFR around $65,000 - $70,000 for the
RV series. If you build it you can repair it yourself w/out and A&P
licence. You purchase one already built you will have to pay someone else
to do the fixin.
By all means stick with your training. You are peeking into a whole new
arena of flying.
Rick Blaes
Military pilot, RV-4 builder
-----Original Message-----
From: Louis Willig [mailto:larywil(at)comcast.net]
Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: Instruction
>
>Hi list members,
>
>
>Anyway I intend to continue with the aerobatic course, and then look for
>some basic aerobatic capable aircraft to continue practicing. Does any have
>a recommendation, something less expensive than an Extra 300 please.
>
>Ed Novack
>enovack(at)optonline.net
Ed,
One of the best aerobatic training (and even all-around cross country)
aircraft is a Decathalon.
Louis
Louis I Willig
1640 Oakwood Dr.
Penn Valley, PA 19072
610 668-4964
RV-4, 195 hrs., 190 HP C/S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
Ed, Not near as much traffic here as Patty Wagstaff's site
AerobaticSource.com. I am also looking for a more capable aerobatic
machine. My RV-6 is fun for sport areobatics but snap rolls cause a hell of
a racket from the metal skin which doesn't built up the confidence. Also
want a well proven airframe in all types of spins and their recovery. I
don't know of anyone who does flat and/or inverted spins in their RV on a
regular basis. Therefore, I'm looking for a new project. There are orphaned
projects for both the Pitts (S1C, S1-11B) and for the One Design. I'm
leaning toward the One Design because of its simpler mono wing and four cyl
engine. Anyone out there care to comment on the pro's & con's of aerobatics
between the Pitts & the One Design?
Rick Caldwell
RV-6
>some basic aerobatic capable aircraft to continue practicing. Does any have
>a recommendation, something less expensive than an Extra 300 please.
>
>Ed Novack
>enovack(at)optonline.net
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
At 12:28 AM 4/8/2002, you wrote:
><39asew.e32.ac1(at)incirlik.af.mil>
>
>Have you ever flown in an RV-4 or RV-6 or how about a Lancair 320 or 360?
>Now that's aerobatic. The aircraft are light, they don't bleed off energy
>as fast due to modern airfoils, the controls are extremely light at all
>airspeeds and they usually come with a 160 - 180 Hp. Get a ride some time
>from the guys at your local EAA chapter.
I owned an RV-4 with positive G systems (no inverted systems). Its roll
rate and light control feel were delightful. But as I got into doing more
acro I found the envelope to be a bit restrictive. It gains so much speed
on a downline that you have to play your vertical maneuvers very carefully,
perhaps more carefully than is reasonable for a low-time acro pilot. For
example, before I owned it a ham-handed jet-jockey inadvertantly pushed my
RV-4 to almost 100 kts past red-line in a botched split-S. Fortunately the
only damage was a spanwise crack in the left elevator. I built a new
elevator for it when I bought it and it was great after that. I guess that
says something about the strength of the RV-4 design tho'.
Also, the pitch forces would get so light at aft CG that I got down right
uncomfortable. Even if you keep it within the weight/CG envelope, this is
not an aircraft in which you want to do dual aerobatic instruction.
Then I flew a CJ6A. It does all the things the RV-4 does but is draggier
and won't bust through redline if you screw up (also, the redline is about
20 kts faster in the CJ6A). You just close the throttle and recover. The
roll rate isn't quite as good (100 deg/sec vs. 160 deg/sec) but the control
harmony is nicer. G-loading and roll rates are amazingly linear with pitch
and roll forces. I have fewer hours in the Yak-52 (mostly doing formation
instruction) but my feeling is that it is much the same as the CJ6A,
perhaps with a little less pitch/roll control harmony.
I sold my RV-4 and kept the CJ6A. The only time I miss the RV-4 is on a
long cross country where the 170 kt cruise of the RV-4 beats the snot out
of the 145 kt economy cruise of the CJ6A. I can make the CJ6A go 150-155
kts but the fuel burn shortens my legs and I really get clobbered on time.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Novack <enovack(at)optonline.net> |
Thanks for all of the suggestions Guys,
I tried a Citabria(115hp) when I took my tailwheel training, I found it a
very tight fit (I'm 6ft and 200+lbs), I was flying with my knees in my
chest. Other than that I thought it was great. Didn't do any acro at the
time though.
Thanks Wes I subscribed to that other list.
And also thanks Brian and Wes for suggesting the Yaks. As far as Yak-52's or
CJ-6 go I am very attracted to them, but I'm not sure it would be a viable
choice since I'm a low time pilot (223hrs), with only 1 acro lesson behind
me at the moment.
And of course I love those little bi-planes, especially the 2 seat versions.
I may try to get a couple hours of experience in one of them somewhere. Rick
C. I think you may have a great idea of getting a Pitts project, but I just
don't have the time to build something. I've also heard that the Pitts might
be more of a handful to land. Any comments?
The only experience I have in a homebuilt was a demo ride in an RV-8 at Vans
last September. I thought that was one of the best planes I've been in to
date, and now that I've had a lesson in an Extra 200, I thought they were in
many ways similar. At least control feel wise, But I'm sure the Extra is
stronger. How does anyone feel about the RV-8?
And Rick Blanes, I'm very envious of all that experience in high performance
metal.
Ed Novack
enovack(at)optonline.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
At 08:52 PM 4/8/2002, you wrote:
>And also thanks Brian and Wes for suggesting the Yaks. As far as Yak-52's or
>CJ-6 go I am very attracted to them, but I'm not sure it would be a viable
>choice since I'm a low time pilot (223hrs), with only 1 acro lesson behind
>me at the moment.
I had one student who was still working toward his private pilot
certificate when he first flew a CJ6A. He went right on to aerobatic
training and now owns a CJ6A and has competed in an IAC competition with it
in the beginner category. He took away the 1st place trophy at his first
meet. There is no reason you can't fly a CJ6A or Yak-52 with 223
hours. There is no reason you cannot learn to fly a Yak-52
safely. Frankly neither the Yak-52 nor CJ6A are any more difficult to fly
than a Beechcraft Bonanza.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | 39 ASEW/E32/AC1 <39asew.e32.ac1(at)incirlik.af.mil> |
Ed,
Don't be envious. Remember Military Jet time is the ultimate in Government
control over your life. Anyhow, RV-8. Sales of these babies are quickly
surpassing its sister the RV-4 which is what I'm building. I started my kit
in 1991 and with Kids, Job, Deployments and that all too elusive Kitchen
pass, I made very little progress on the thing from 1994 - 1998. I now live
on my own airstrip, have my own hangar and will hopefully finish it up this
summer.
Back to the RV-8. What do you need all of those stinkin G's for. The RV-8
is capable of +6 -4. How many G's have you pulled to far? Life starts to
get rough after +4, and anything more than -2 is hard on your body (eyes
especially). Hey, you do get used to it. Just about any fighter pilot will
tell you that an anti G suit is required beyond 6.5 G's. Bin there done
that. Those babies are nice but they only give you about 1.5 extra G
tolerance. That means you will start greying out beyond 8 G's and you have
to work really hard. We've all had to go to the G Simulator in San Antonio
Texas for practice when we were younger. During the session we were given
instruction on how to strain all of our muscles against the G's (its called
the anti G straining technique) and we had to withstand (stay conscious) for
30 seconds while pulling 9 G's. This test absolutely #$%%s and you hurt for
2 days afterward. It's not fun and more than half of the guys passed out
after just 15 second and this is with a G suit on. but here's what I've
experienced in the military. I'm 6'1" tall, thin (well used to be 165#).
The amount of G's you can pull on any given day changes and it depends on
your general health, amount of sleep, muscular build, your anti G staining
technique, and most importantly your heart to eyeball distance. Mine is
about 13". Short stalky guys can pull the most G's. Me I'm good for about
8 and that's it (5.5 without a G suit).
If your aerobatic instructor has not instructed you in how to do the anti G
strain (you know, tensing all of your muscles) write back and I'll explain
further. You could easily kill yourself by blacking out while maneuvering
above 3 G's.
By the way, Any wonder why Van made his line of aircraft +6 G instead of
something greater. Your a masochist if you want to do more and without a G
suit few pilots can do more than 6 for any length of time and he knew that.
Let's talk a second about ultimate load. Van's series and Lancair wings are
tested to 9 G's static (that's a 50% margin above the operating limits of
the aircraft). While flying fast, if you or your passenger make any abrupt
maneuver (snatch the stick) you can rip the wings off, but that's true of a
Yak, Citaborea or Lasar 200. A good friend of mine Mark Pfiefler owned an
Edge 540 made by Zivco Aeronotics. The wings ultimate load was tested to 19
G's. A typical engineering problem since the beginning of time, you beef
one thing up you leave a week link somewhere else. At 19 G's the Edge 540's
wings will hold together, but will its or fuselage or tail feather? Good
rule of thumb, fly smooth aerobatics, and never snatch the stick in any
aircraft!
Keep getting off of the subject of RV-8. Great aircraft. More room than an
RV-4, tandem seating and you can stuff 220 HP under the hood. You will have
a harder time finding a completed aircraft for sale since the kit only came
out a few years ago. Most guys who built them traded in their smaller
RV-4's (you are starting to see quite a few of those for sale). Ones for
sale will probably start at $65,000.
A little bit on the RV-4. Of all of the Van's kits the RV-4 is the fastest,
and most efficient of all of the 2 seat models. The RV-3 is the only thing
faster, but it's a single seat. The RV-4 has the smallest wetted area and
is the lightest. I truly believe this was Van's master piece. All of the
other models came about because of customer demand for various creature
comforts and Van had to compromise on the design and ultimately on the
performance to give the customer what they wanted.
Two seat vs one seat. Flying is to be shared. Deep down in the bowels of
every pilot is that need to show others what you love in life, what makes
you tick, your passions, your desires. You can't do that without a passenger
seat. The single seat air show guys fulfill this innate desire by risking
their lives flying crazing stuff close to the ground for crowds of
thousands. Aint nothin wrong with that. Hey how many of the great air show
performers are now using 2 seat models, to not only please the crowd, but to
take people up for rides or give instruction. You may want to do air shows
some day, but your no where near ready for that stuff yet. FAA will not
give you the altitude waiver, either, until you can prove yourself and that
takes hours and practice. It's a gradual step down process as well. Get a
two seater to practice with for the next few years. I guarantee you, after
10 hours in your new single seater you will want to sell it (no one there to
share it with). Ever wonder why these models are so cheap to purchase? A
completed RV-3 is priced at about 1/2 what you'd pay for any other RV model
(same engine, same amount of aluminum +- 10%, same number of man-hours to
build, same engine and instrument costs). There is little demand in the
aircraft market for single seat airplanes. By the way did I mention never
ever, ever, ever, ever, ever buy a single seat aircraft.
There are some great bargains out there for under $50,000.
Opinions, We've all got em don't we?
Rick Blaes
-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Novack [mailto:enovack(at)optonline.net]
Subject: Aerobatic-List: Instruction
Thanks for all of the suggestions Guys,
I tried a Citabria(115hp) when I took my tailwheel training, I found it a
very tight fit (I'm 6ft and 200+lbs), I was flying with my knees in my
chest. Other than that I thought it was great. Didn't do any acro at the
time though.
Thanks Wes I subscribed to that other list.
And also thanks Brian and Wes for suggesting the Yaks. As far as Yak-52's or
CJ-6 go I am very attracted to them, but I'm not sure it would be a viable
choice since I'm a low time pilot (223hrs), with only 1 acro lesson behind
me at the moment.
And of course I love those little bi-planes, especially the 2 seat versions.
I may try to get a couple hours of experience in one of them somewhere. Rick
C. I think you may have a great idea of getting a Pitts project, but I just
don't have the time to build something. I've also heard that the Pitts might
be more of a handful to land. Any comments?
The only experience I have in a homebuilt was a demo ride in an RV-8 at Vans
last September. I thought that was one of the best planes I've been in to
date, and now that I've had a lesson in an Extra 200, I thought they were in
many ways similar. At least control feel wise, But I'm sure the Extra is
stronger. How does anyone feel about the RV-8?
And Rick Blanes, I'm very envious of all that experience in high performance
metal.
Ed Novack
enovack(at)optonline.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
somewhere. Rick
>C. I think you may have a great idea of getting a Pitts project, but I just
>don't have the time to build something. I've also heard that the Pitts
>might
>be more of a handful to land. Any comments?
>
>The only experience I have in a homebuilt was a demo ride in an RV-8 at
>Vans
>last September. I thought that was one of the best planes I've been in
Ed, OK, you can't go wrong with an RV. I built one and will never sell it.
It's my baby. I fly formation with two RV-4s about every weekend and the
3D flying in trail is an experience (freedom) I will fight to keep. I am
also flying the sportsman routine but have to keep +G's since I do not have
inverted systems. However, there are manuevers that I do not feel
comfortable performing in my RV. I've done about 25 snap rolls (not at one
time), mostly at the top of a loop, but like I said earlier, I stopped doing
this because the RV worries me. I have a heavy 2-blade CS Hartzell way out
front, regular engine mounts, nice panelmounted GX65 and that godawful sound
of the skin banging during the snap; this stuff doesn't give me the
confidence I need. Also as mentioned, I spin my RV weekly as part of the
sportsman routine, but this is an incipient upright spin. I don't have the
confidence in the design to explore the other spins just because I do not
hear lots of success stories from others about this. I hear nothing but
Van's say DO NOT SPIN the RV-6. Also, I am bored after work now that my
project was finsished a couple yrs back. Therefore, I'm looking for a
capable acro machine as a new project. I do not need two seats for acro. I
already have the RV-6. As an aside, I have also found that I rarely take a
passenger up for aerobatics. Instructors, yes, passengers rarely & then only
a couple rolls & a loop. Even pilots who ride with me say stop because they
feel sick. One puked. One backed out at 3 G's. This is not the fun I want to
give passengers. So in my case, a single seater would work fine. I have two
seats in the RV for X-C, etc.
I have only 3 landings in the Steen Aerolab Yellow Skybolt and it was like
landing a taildragger in that you have to move your feet right now. The RV's
are stable on landing. I will get some training in the Pitts before I go
land one of the short taildraggers like the S1S or One Design. It's just
something else to learn and stay proficient at. If you are only wanting to
fly acro in the local area, I'd recommend a little Pitts. They're for sale
about $20K. If you want sport aerobatics, a good X-C plane, and two seats,
then you can't go wrong with the RV-4 which are available around $30 - $40K.
The -8 is much more expensive to buy.
Rick Caldwell
RV-6 340hrs
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com> |
The Pitts lands just like a T-18 Thorp. You must baby it on the runway or is
will go bounce bounce then it is done. Once you get the hang of it you will
be ok or if you are comfortable doing wheel landings those come out nicer in
the pitts. I have not done areobatics in a pitts but today im renting an 152
to go do some spins. =)
Justin
RV7a
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Aerobatic-List: Instruction
>
>
> somewhere. Rick
> >C. I think you may have a great idea of getting a Pitts project, but I
just
> >don't have the time to build something. I've also heard that the Pitts
> >might
> >be more of a handful to land. Any comments?
> >
> >The only experience I have in a homebuilt was a demo ride in an RV-8 at
> >Vans
> >last September. I thought that was one of the best planes I've been in
>
> Ed, OK, you can't go wrong with an RV. I built one and will never sell
it.
> It's my baby. I fly formation with two RV-4s about every weekend and
the
> 3D flying in trail is an experience (freedom) I will fight to keep. I am
> also flying the sportsman routine but have to keep +G's since I do not
have
> inverted systems. However, there are manuevers that I do not feel
> comfortable performing in my RV. I've done about 25 snap rolls (not at
one
> time), mostly at the top of a loop, but like I said earlier, I stopped
doing
> this because the RV worries me. I have a heavy 2-blade CS Hartzell way out
> front, regular engine mounts, nice panelmounted GX65 and that godawful
sound
> of the skin banging during the snap; this stuff doesn't give me the
> confidence I need. Also as mentioned, I spin my RV weekly as part of the
> sportsman routine, but this is an incipient upright spin. I don't have the
> confidence in the design to explore the other spins just because I do not
> hear lots of success stories from others about this. I hear nothing but
> Van's say DO NOT SPIN the RV-6. Also, I am bored after work now that my
> project was finsished a couple yrs back. Therefore, I'm looking for a
> capable acro machine as a new project. I do not need two seats for acro.
I
> already have the RV-6. As an aside, I have also found that I rarely take a
> passenger up for aerobatics. Instructors, yes, passengers rarely & then
only
> a couple rolls & a loop. Even pilots who ride with me say stop because
they
> feel sick. One puked. One backed out at 3 G's. This is not the fun I want
to
> give passengers. So in my case, a single seater would work fine. I have
two
> seats in the RV for X-C, etc.
>
> I have only 3 landings in the Steen Aerolab Yellow Skybolt and it was like
> landing a taildragger in that you have to move your feet right now. The
RV's
> are stable on landing. I will get some training in the Pitts before I go
> land one of the short taildraggers like the S1S or One Design. It's just
> something else to learn and stay proficient at. If you are only wanting to
> fly acro in the local area, I'd recommend a little Pitts. They're for sale
> about $20K. If you want sport aerobatics, a good X-C plane, and two seats,
> then you can't go wrong with the RV-4 which are available around $30 -
$40K.
> The -8 is much more expensive to buy.
>
> Rick Caldwell
> RV-6 340hrs
>
> Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SargentWayne(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 04/08/02 |
Hey, it's great to finally see some activity on this acro site.
A neat plane for acro is a Hiperbipe, two place, out of the weather, fairly
fast 150-160, strong +6-4. I just sold mine, but there are a few for sale
right now for $35K -$45K. I did outside loops, tail slides, vertical rolls,
avalanche, push up to hammerhead and push out inverted as well as all the
usual loops, rolls, inverted flight (90 minutes possible), most I did was
about ten minutes though, great knife edge, point rolls, etc. Lots of fun,
check them out.
I am almost ready to fly the one I've been working on for about two years,
this one has smoke and 200 + HP.
Wayne Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
At 06:19 AM 4/9/2002, you wrote:
>need. Also as mentioned, I spin my RV weekly as part of the
>sportsman routine, but this is an incipient upright spin. I don't have the
>confidence in the design to explore the other spins just because I do not
>hear lots of success stories from others about this. I hear nothing but
>Van's say DO NOT SPIN the RV-6.
I was doing RV-4 and RV-6 transition training and discussed this with Van
and others from Van's at OSH a couple of years ago. Van says that spins in
the RV-4 are just fine, albeit a bit quick for some people. He recommends
against doing spins in the RV-6 because it has a tendency to really wind up
and scare people although he believes it is safe. He does have some minor
reservations about spinning the RV-6 at aft CG so just to be safe (and
avoid litigation) he is vociferous about recommending against spins in the
RV-6.
>I have also found that I rarely take a
>passenger up for aerobatics. Instructors, yes, passengers rarely & then only
>a couple rolls & a loop. Even pilots who ride with me say stop because they
>feel sick. One puked. One backed out at 3 G's. This is not the fun I want to
>give passengers. So in my case, a single seater would work fine. I have two
>seats in the RV for X-C, etc.
Good point. I work up to it with my passengers. I start out with 60
degree then 70 degree bank steep turns (2G and 3G respectively) to see how
they fare. I then proceed to wingovers. This gets them used to seeing the
horizon vertical and pulling 2-3 G's. If they are still having a good time
I proceed to aileron and then barrel rolls. Reverse cubans come next and
then spins. Loops, cuban eights, and hammerhead turns round things
out. If they have gotten this far I start putting things together. If at
any point someone becomes at all uncomfortable we head back to the
airport. By doing it this way I have never had anyone barf in the airplane.
If I can talk them into it, I do all this with my primary students and then
get them used to recovering from real unusual attitudes. It is amazing how
spins and just a little acro raises their comfort level. After that
power-on stalls become no issue. :
)
>I have only 3 landings in the Steen Aerolab Yellow Skybolt and it was like
>landing a taildragger in that you have to move your feet right now. The RV's
>are stable on landing. I will get some training in the Pitts before I go
>land one of the short taildraggers like the S1S or One Design.
FYI, a good training airplane for learning to land short-coupled biplanes
is either the Piper Clipper or Piper Pacer. I prefer the Clipper because
it doesn't have flaps and the full-span ailerons give a roll rate/response
that is closer to an aerobatic biplane. It also has big-time rudder
authority and a snappy response that tends to cause pilots to initially
overcontrol in yaw. During initial transition I spend a lot of effort
damping out a student's rudder inputs, mostly by just standing on the
rudder pedals. :
) As you say, the RV-4 is a pussycat by comparison.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com> |
Does anyone know the spin rate in degree's on the RV6? I spun a cessna 152
today and I thought it did pretty fast spins to the left, on the 3rd spin it
was winding up tight, proubly a good 200degee's/second. It took 180degree's
to get the spin going then the rest of the 180 to stop it in the 152 but a
720degree spin was nice to the left. To the right it didn;t do much, I
woudln;t even call it a spin.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: RE: Aerobatic-List: Instruction
>
> At 06:19 AM 4/9/2002, you wrote:
> >need. Also as mentioned, I spin my RV weekly as part of the
> >sportsman routine, but this is an incipient upright spin. I don't have
the
> >confidence in the design to explore the other spins just because I do not
> >hear lots of success stories from others about this. I hear nothing but
> >Van's say DO NOT SPIN the RV-6.
>
> I was doing RV-4 and RV-6 transition training and discussed this with Van
> and others from Van's at OSH a couple of years ago. Van says that spins
in
> the RV-4 are just fine, albeit a bit quick for some people. He recommends
> against doing spins in the RV-6 because it has a tendency to really wind
up
> and scare people although he believes it is safe. He does have some minor
> reservations about spinning the RV-6 at aft CG so just to be safe (and
> avoid litigation) he is vociferous about recommending against spins in the
> RV-6.
>
> >I have also found that I rarely take a
> >passenger up for aerobatics. Instructors, yes, passengers rarely & then
only
> >a couple rolls & a loop. Even pilots who ride with me say stop because
they
> >feel sick. One puked. One backed out at 3 G's. This is not the fun I want
to
> >give passengers. So in my case, a single seater would work fine. I have
two
> >seats in the RV for X-C, etc.
>
> Good point. I work up to it with my passengers. I start out with 60
> degree then 70 degree bank steep turns (2G and 3G respectively) to see how
> they fare. I then proceed to wingovers. This gets them used to seeing
the
> horizon vertical and pulling 2-3 G's. If they are still having a good
time
> I proceed to aileron and then barrel rolls. Reverse cubans come next and
> then spins. Loops, cuban eights, and hammerhead turns round things
> out. If they have gotten this far I start putting things together. If at
> any point someone becomes at all uncomfortable we head back to the
> airport. By doing it this way I have never had anyone barf in the
airplane.
>
> If I can talk them into it, I do all this with my primary students and
then
> get them used to recovering from real unusual attitudes. It is amazing
how
> spins and just a little acro raises their comfort level. After that
> power-on stalls become no issue. :
)
>
> >I have only 3 landings in the Steen Aerolab Yellow Skybolt and it was
like
> >landing a taildragger in that you have to move your feet right now. The
RV's
> >are stable on landing. I will get some training in the Pitts before I go
> >land one of the short taildraggers like the S1S or One Design.
>
> FYI, a good training airplane for learning to land short-coupled biplanes
> is either the Piper Clipper or Piper Pacer. I prefer the Clipper because
> it doesn't have flaps and the full-span ailerons give a roll rate/response
> that is closer to an aerobatic biplane. It also has big-time rudder
> authority and a snappy response that tends to cause pilots to initially
> overcontrol in yaw. During initial transition I spend a lot of effort
> damping out a student's rudder inputs, mostly by just standing on the
> rudder pedals. :
) As you say, the RV-4 is a pussycat by comparison.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
Well, when I was with my instructor (RV-4 owner) for spin training in my
RV-6, we did a three turn upright spin to the left and recovered using the
Beggs method of opposite rudder, hands off the stick. It was spinning too
fast for me to even think about timing it. I'd guess after two turns it was
going better than a full turn/second. It did take about a full turn after
three to recover. Not so with incipent spins. After 1 or 1 1/4 turn spins,
it recovers when rudder is released.
Rick Caldwell
>Does anyone know the spin rate in degree's on the RV6? I spun a cessna 152
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)comcast.net> |
>
>Does anyone know the spin rate in degree's on the RV6? I spun a cessna 152
>today and I thought it did pretty fast spins to the left, on the 3rd spin it
>was winding up tight, proubly a good 200degee's/second. It took 180degree's
>to get the spin going then the rest of the 180 to stop it in the 152 but a
>720degree spin was nice to the left. To the right it didn;t do much, I
>woudln;t even call it a spin.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
>To:
>Subject: RE: Aerobatic-List: Instruction
The following is a post made by Herman Dierks in 1967. Herman is an IAC
competitor and knows his stuff. Read this carefully and save the post for
future reference.
| From: | PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Primary catagory aerobatics |
Anyone interested in "primary" category aerobatics please email
Rob(at)Dorseyaero.com (IAC president) with your support. This category would
have no spins and would probably be very compatable with RV 4, 6, 7, and 8s.
Without support this proposal could die an early death.
Dave Beizer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Primary catagory aerobatics |
Dave,
I'm an IAC member and I hadn't heard about any threat to dissolve the
primary category. I've competed in the Basic category in my RV-4 (O-320
normally aspirated). I just emailed Rob to see what's up. Where did you
here about this possible "early death"? BTW the RV-4 spins beautifully.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: <PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com>
Subject: Aerobatic-List: Primary catagory aerobatics
>
> Anyone interested in "primary" category aerobatics please email
> Rob(at)Dorseyaero.com (IAC president) with your support. This category
would
> have no spins and would probably be very compatable with RV 4, 6, 7, and
8s.
> Without support this proposal could die an early death.
>
> Dave Beizer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Basiliere" <discrab(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Primary catagory aerobatics |
Friends, I just got back from competition at CGZ, (Casa Grande, AZ). They
had 4 categories only. Sportsman thru Unlimited. "Primary" was excluded.
Killed, died and was buried, from this contest. Some people don't like
Primary compared to Basic and these people promote contests. If you like
the idea of Primary (Spin vs. Wingover)please let Mr. Dorsey know. Rob
would, I'm sure like to get feed back from every and anyone with an opinion.
Thanks, Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of C. Rabaut
Subject: Fw: Aerobatic-List: Primary catagory aerobatics
Dave,
I'm an IAC member and I hadn't heard about any threat to dissolve the
primary category. I've competed in the Basic category in my RV-4 (O-320
normally aspirated). I just emailed Rob to see what's up. Where did you
here about this possible "early death"? BTW the RV-4 spins beautifully.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: <PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com>
Subject: Aerobatic-List: Primary catagory aerobatics
>
> Anyone interested in "primary" category aerobatics please email
> Rob(at)Dorseyaero.com (IAC president) with your support. This category
would
> have no spins and would probably be very compatable with RV 4, 6, 7, and
8s.
> Without support this proposal could die an early death.
>
> Dave Beizer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Primary catagory aerobatics |
----- Original Message -----
From: <PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Aerobatic-List: Primary catagory aerobatics
> Sport aerobatics magazine - RV 6 Spins not recommended
Yea, but...
Chuck's log book - "RV-4 spins are a blast!!!"
I've only had one occasion to spin an RV-6; it was starting to wind up
faster & faster so we quit at about 4 rotations (took about a full rotation
to stabilize). I believe Van's (Richard Van Grunsven's) concern about folks
spinning the RV-6 is that it spins easily, gains speed rapidly, and most
common folks might exceed the aircraft's structural limits by blowing either
way past VNE or by not applying the proper flight control inputs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Primary catagory aerobatics |
At 09:03 AM 4/16/2002, you wrote:
>
>Anyone interested in "primary" category aerobatics please email
>Rob(at)Dorseyaero.com (IAC president) with your support. This category would
>have no spins and would probably be very compatable with RV 4, 6, 7, and 8s.
>Without support this proposal could die an early death.
What's wrong with spins? The RV-4 and RV-8 should have no problems with
spins. Seems to me that spins are really pretty basic and ought to be part
of the program.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Spins a Legal Manover |
I heard somewhere that if the airplane is rated for spins but NOT areobatics
(Cessna 152) then spins with a CFI are "OK". Solo spins are fine but that is
not the issue I am wondering about. Is it legal to do spins in a C152 (that
catagory of ratings)?
Justin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Primary verses Basic **long delete if not interested** |
Rob,
Thank you for your response, and I will be sharing it with the
aerobatic-list. My first experience with IAC was at Borrego Springs. When
I got there, I had no previous professional training, just self taught, and
had only done about 5 spins in my life. The contest direct (I believe it
was Michael Church) was friendly but extremely professional. After talking
with me about control inputs throughout each of the required Basic maneuvers
(stalls, spins, loops, rolls, aerobatic 90's & 180's) he was concerned with
my limited experience with spins, and wanted to know why I had not practiced
more spins. I reluctantly admitted that they were not as enjoyable to me as
other aerobatic maneuvers and a little scary too.
Michael explained that if I "blew" a maneuver a spin would likely result
and he felt that I should feel very comfortable with entering and exiting
spins. Needless to say I did well over 40 spins {both left & right, before
lunch} that day; about 12 of which were under Michael's direct observations.
Via radio, Michael would call out for a particular maneuver and say when to
enter the spin and when to exit (and what heading he wanted upon exit).
This was the BEST (and yes only) professional training I've ever had. After
carefully scrutinizing my skills, Michael "allowed" me to participate in the
workshop and invited me to compete as well. I enjoyed watching and talking
with all the other competitors (another EXCELLENT way to learn) on Thursday
and Friday, I had to go back home to work on Saturday (20+ years on shift
work sucks) so I couldn't stay and compete. But each competitor I met at
the event was more than willing to watch & critic me, and give their
observations from their cockpit as I watched them perform their routine. My
second IAC experience was Delano, I won first in Basic and got the stars
patch to boot, but that's an even longer story. **Editorial note: God if
you ever want to have fun & learn at the same time "GO" to one of these IAC
events even if you don't compete!
Rob, you are absolutely right that this issue should have been (and
should be) worked out through the proper means/channels, and IAC chapters
should not penalize members {Especially new ones, as this is their "first"
experience}. Yet I believe Michael was/is right, that spins should be apart
of the "Basic" category. Perhaps we as an organization could have a
"training" category as Primary for workshops etc..., with competitions
limited to Basic, Sportsman, Intermediate, Advanced, & Unlimited.
Chuck
opinions respectfully submitted for consideration, probably worth what you
paid for them...
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Dorsey <rob(at)dorseyaero.com>
Subject: Re: Primary verses Basic
> Chuck,
>
> The Primary (or Basic) category will not be history but the sequence
> without a spin may be. We have received incredible resistance from three
> west coast chapters who have elected to omit Primary from their contests
> in protest. Below is the email sent to the Paso Robles Contest Director
> from me.
>
> Bottom line: Hang in, it will work, despite the crusade of a few.
>
> Best Regards,
> RD
>
> >Rob Dorsey Wrote to Brad Oliver <
>
> Brad,
>
> From the tone of your email I gather that you may not agree with the
> decision to omit Primary from your contest. If that is the case I
> commend you for your restraint
> and professional approach to what must be a distasteful duty indeed. If
> I am mistaken then I fear that we must disagree. Please understand that
> what follows is not
> intended to shoot the messenger but to register my extreme
> disappointment with the insurrectionary stance taken by influential
> individuals within chapters in the
> Southwestern Region.
>
> While the decision to not fly any category in a contest is certainly
> within the purview of the Contest Director, based on your comments, I am
> deeply saddened to see
> that another Western chapter will fail to serve their membership while
> pursuing an agenda of their own device. In my opinion, those pilots who
> have been practicing,
> have worked hard to prepare, who have planned the time off and were
> looking forward to flying in Primary at Phoenix, Borrego Springs and now
> Paso Robles have
> been betrayed by their own chapters. How would you feel if you knew
> yourself to be safe and competent, were flying your airplane within its
> limitations, had worked
> hard to get ready for a contest, perhaps the only one within flying
> distance or for which you had the time, only to be denied participation
> by a misguided crusade.
>
> The Primary Category was proposed to the IAC Rules Committee over a year
> ago, was passed by that committee and put out for Member comment. If the
>
> sequence to be flown was in violation of the aircraft's operating manual
> or limitations the category and sequence would not have made it past
> committee. It was then
> voted on and passed, not unanimously but with a sound majority, by the
> IAC Board. Chapter 38's decision, and those of two other chapters in the
> Region, to
> circumvent the committee process under the guise of "safety" is
> transparent, arbitrary and deplorable. The data simply do not support
> the argument upon which such
> action was based.
>
> Regarding "safety", there is a vast difference between a Contest
> Director denying participation to an individual pilot or stopping a
> flight, based on an observed
> deficiency in ability or unsafe action, and denying participation to an
> entire class of IAC members based on an unfounded theory without
> supporting data. The former
> has been an informal but traditional method used at IAC competitions to
> maintain safety and has served us well. To unilaterally decide that an
> entire category of
> competition is unsafe, to blatantly defy the rule making process of the
> club, is an outright perversion of that tradition. This decision imposes
> de facto restrictions on
> the entry level of our sport that are not imposed on any other category.
> To impose individual and arbitrary limitations on an entire group of
> aircraft and IAC
> members without solid supporting facts is simply outrageous.
>
> Please share this email with your Board as I have with the other Chapter
> Presidents and the IAC Board and Rules Committee.
>
> With Greatest Disappointment,
>
> RD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
At 09:03 PM 4/16/2001, you wrote:
>
>I heard somewhere that if the airplane is rated for spins but NOT areobatics
>(Cessna 152) then spins with a CFI are "OK". Solo spins are fine but that is
>not the issue I am wondering about. Is it legal to do spins in a C152 (that
>catagory of ratings)?
As far as I know, spins are approved in the C-150. If my student will let
me, I teach spins in the C-150.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR(at)ci.boulder.co.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
Answer sir, Yes but... Check your Pilot's Operating Handbook - your Bible on this.
Some of the modified 150-152's are prohibited from spins by POH. 150 horse
conversion and probably some others. FYI Spins are legal in my C177B. Regards,
Rick please be safe...chute is a good idea.
>>> jmw116(at)socal.rr.com 04/16/01 10:03PM >>>
I heard somewhere that if the airplane is rated for spins but NOT areobatics
(Cessna 152) then spins with a CFI are "OK". Solo spins are fine but that is
not the issue I am wondering about. Is it legal to do spins in a C152 (that
catagory of ratings)?
Justin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
Chutes may be nice but how would one get out of a Cessna when the door
isn't off?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR(at)ci.boulder.co.us>
Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: Spins a Legal Manover
Answer sir, Yes but... Check your Pilot's Operating Handbook - your Bible
on this. Some of the modified 150-152's are prohibited from spins by POH.
150 horse conversion and probably some others. FYI Spins are legal in my
C177B. Regards, Rick please be safe...chute is a good idea.
>>> jmw116(at)socal.rr.com 04/16/01 10:03PM >>>
I heard somewhere that if the airplane is rated for spins but NOT areobatics
(Cessna 152) then spins with a CFI are "OK". Solo spins are fine but that is
not the issue I am wondering about. Is it legal to do spins in a C152 (that
catagory of ratings)?
Justin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
At 08:11 PM 4/17/2002, you wrote:
>
>Chutes may be nice but how would one get out of a Cessna when the door
>isn't off?
Incipient panic gives you superhuman strength. :
)
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
I dont think chutes are even goign to be a big help while doing spins in a
cessna 152.The door woudl be a chore to hold open in flight dont ya think? I
did my spins at 5500' at which I had tons of room to get out of the spin. A
tomahawk I might not want to spin due to their tendensy to not want to come
out of a spin! The cessna is proven and I knwo it will come out of the spin
along with not hurting the airplane. I am comfortable doing loops in an
airplane (if rated for loops) without a shute.
Justin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: Spins a Legal Manover
>
> Chutes may be nice but how would one get out of a Cessna when the door
> isn't off?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR(at)ci.boulder.co.us>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: Spins a Legal Manover
>
>
>
>
> Answer sir, Yes but... Check your Pilot's Operating Handbook - your Bible
> on this. Some of the modified 150-152's are prohibited from spins by POH.
> 150 horse conversion and probably some others. FYI Spins are legal in my
> C177B. Regards, Rick please be safe...chute is a good idea.
>
> >>> jmw116(at)socal.rr.com 04/16/01 10:03PM >>>
>
> I heard somewhere that if the airplane is rated for spins but NOT
areobatics
> (Cessna 152) then spins with a CFI are "OK". Solo spins are fine but that
is
> not the issue I am wondering about. Is it legal to do spins in a C152
(that
> catagory of ratings)?
>
> Justin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
At 06:54 PM 4/17/2002, you wrote:
>
>I dont think chutes are even goign to be a big help while doing spins in a
>cessna 152.
I think the comment was a joke.
>The door woudl be a chore to hold open in flight dont ya think?
A bit of a push, yes.
>I
>did my spins at 5500' at which I had tons of room to get out of the spin. A
>tomahawk I might not want to spin due to their tendensy to not want to come
>out of a spin! The cessna is proven and I knwo it will come out of the spin
>along with not hurting the airplane.
Well, that *is* what the type certificate implies.
>I am comfortable doing loops in an
>airplane (if rated for loops) without a shute.
It's your funeral.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
A cessna recovers from a spin without any extra effort then wheat the book
says to do. I have no doubt in my mind that it would not want to come out or
would crash so joke? na.
Doing areobatic's withotu a parashute doesn;t seem like a huge risk to me.
If you allow yoruself plenty of altitude and do not over-due the airplane
nor yourself the risks will remain down, not as low as if you wore a
parashute but better then an airshow performance without parashute.
Justin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: Spins a Legal Manover
>
> At 06:54 PM 4/17/2002, you wrote:
> >
> >I dont think chutes are even goign to be a big help while doing spins in
a
> >cessna 152.
>
> I think the comment was a joke.
>
> >The door woudl be a chore to hold open in flight dont ya think?
>
> A bit of a push, yes.
>
> >I
> >did my spins at 5500' at which I had tons of room to get out of the spin.
A
> >tomahawk I might not want to spin due to their tendensy to not want to
come
> >out of a spin! The cessna is proven and I knwo it will come out of the
spin
> >along with not hurting the airplane.
>
> Well, that *is* what the type certificate implies.
>
> >I am comfortable doing loops in an
> >airplane (if rated for loops) without a shute.
>
> It's your funeral.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
At 08:00 PM 4/17/2002, you wrote:
>
>A cessna recovers from a spin without any extra effort then wheat the book
>says to do. I have no doubt in my mind that it would not want to come out or
>would crash so joke? na.
I guess I wasn't thinking.
>Doing areobatic's withotu a parashute doesn;t seem like a huge risk to me.
>If you allow yoruself plenty of altitude and do not over-due the airplane
>nor yourself the risks will remain down,
Perhaps. I guess I am just getting old or my instinct for
self-preservation is getting stronger.
>not as low as if you wore a
>parashute but better then an airshow performance without parashute.
My take on it is that you are probably right but why not wear one if you
have one? Who knows, some strange thing may happen and you might be happy
you have a 'chute. I always wear mine when doing acro now. Heck, I paid a
bunch of bucks for it, I may as well feel like I am getting my money's
worth. :
)
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Konrad Werner" <Connywerner(at)wans.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
Dear Justin,
Are you aware that by doing so you are in TOTAL VIOLATION of the FAR's
concerning the requirement's of when wearing a Parachute is a necessary item
conduction an aerobatic flight, as below stated by you!
See FAR # 91.307, (c)1 & (c)2, etc.etc.! There is not really "A" choice
given!! Unless of course, you think your pilots license is a "Right Earned"
instead of a "Priviledge Granted" (2.U.).
And thank Brian personally for trying to talk you into saving your ticket,
if not eventually your bacon as well!
Sincerely,
Konrad Werner
ABQ - NM
> Doing areobatic's withotu a parashute doesn;t seem like a huge risk to me.
> If you allow yoruself plenty of altitude and do not over-due the airplane
> nor yourself the risks will remain down, not as low as if you wore a
> parashute but better then an airshow performance without parashute.
> Justin
> >
> > I am comfortable doing loops in an
> > airplane (if rated for loops) without a shute.
> > Justin
> > Brian Lloyd
> > brian(at)lloyd.com
> > +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> > +1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Spins a Legal Manover |
> >Doing areobatic's withotu a parashute doesn;t seem like a huge risk to
me.
> >If you allow yoruself plenty of altitude and do not over-due the airplane
> >nor yourself the risks will remain down,
>
> Perhaps. I guess I am just getting old or my instinct for
> self-preservation is getting stronger.
>
> >not as low as if you wore a
> >parashute but better then an airshow performance without parashute.
>
> My take on it is that you are probably right but why not wear one if you
> have one? Who knows, some strange thing may happen and you might be happy
> you have a 'chute. I always wear mine when doing acro now. Heck, I paid
a
> bunch of bucks for it, I may as well feel like I am getting my money's
> worth. :
)
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
**Hey, I always like to think I look "So COOL" wearing my chute when I'm
doin' aero... (I might look like a dork, but at least just "thinking I look
cool" keeps me wearing my chute).
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
> > Doing areobatic's withotu a parashute doesn;t seem like a huge risk to me.
Justin's point was that doing aerobatics without a chute isn't a huge risk.
There's no point jumping on him about the regs, since the comment is about
reality, not regulations. In Canada there's no requirement to wear a chute
when doing aerobatics, and last time I checked it was not raining pilots in
Canada. If you think the regulation requiring parachutes is good, say why.
Simply parroting the regs doesn't add much to the dialog.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
Well, that's not right. The regs say "Except for crew members" so the pilot
has the option to not wear a chute but a passenger is required.
Rick Caldwell
RV-6
>Are you aware that by doing so you are in TOTAL VIOLATION of the FAR's
>concerning the requirement's of when wearing a Parachute is a necessary
>item
>conduction an aerobatic flight, as below stated by you!
>See FAR # 91.307, (c)1 & (c)2, etc.etc.! There is not really "A" choice
>given
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Konrad Werner" <Connywerner(at)wans.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
Dear Tedd,
I think the headlines has somewhere the word "LEGAL" in there?
If we don't care about the "legal" part at all, then I am all for it:
Everyone who so desires, please fly aerobatics without a parachute.
> Justin's point was that doing aerobatics without a chute isn't a huge
risk.
* You are right. It probably isn't, as long as nothing goes wrong. (And we
are not engaging in WW-II anymore, with the constant threat of having to
bail out on purpose.)
> There's no point jumping on him about the regs, since the comment is about
reality, not regulations.
* Sorry about the jump. But what seems "UN"REAL to you about the
regulations. They are a condition on our priviledge to fly (in the US).
> In Canada there's no requirement to wear a chute when doing aerobatics,
and last time I checked it was not raining pilots in Canada.
* Please disregard my comment about the U.S. Legal Requirements totally, as
they do not apply to folks up north!
> If you think the regulation requiring parachutes is good, say why. Simply
parroting the regs doesn't add much to the dialog.
* I don't think the Reg's are necessarily good, sometimes even more of a
burden. So, either follow the rules or break them.
Long story short about wearing parachutes:
The airplane does not know the difference, nor care about the pilot's
welfare! So do whatever you can live with, no really!
> Tedd McHenry
> Surrey, BC
Konrad Werner
ABQ, NM, US
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Konrad Werner wrote:
>
> Dear Justin,
> Are you aware that by doing so you are in TOTAL VIOLATION of the FAR's
> concerning the requirement's of when wearing a Parachute is a necessary item
> conduction an aerobatic flight, as below stated by you!
Actually, from a regulatory point of view, a solo pilot may wear a
'chute at his option but if he is carrying passengers and doing acro, both
pilot and passenger must wear 'chutes. (This is how I read the regs but I
have been known to be wrong in the past.)
Spin training in a trainer designed to do spins does not need a parachute
as far as I can tell. I know that I don't wear one when doing
cross-controlled stalls, spin entry, and spin recovery training with
primary students in spite of the fact that we easily exceed 30 degrees of
pitch and 60 degrees of roll.
> And thank Brian personally for trying to talk you into saving your ticket,
> if not eventually your bacon as well!
Remember the three most useless things in aviation? I learned them as:
1. the runway behind you,
2. the altitude above you,
3. the fuel not in the tanks.
To that I would like to add, "the parachute you were too busy to wear."
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Konrad Werner" <Connywerner(at)wans.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
>
> Well, that's not right. The regs say "Except for crew members" so the
pilot
> has the option to not wear a chute but a passenger is required.
>
> Rick Caldwell
> RV-6
Let's see what it say's in FAR # 91.307 (c):
"Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no
pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may
execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds:
(1) A bank of 60 degress relative to the horizon; or (2) A nose-up or
nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon. Then there are
also some exceptions as noted in paragraph (d). Please read and interpret
for yourself.
The way I read and understand it, it says:
Unless "EACH" occupant wears a 'chute, the pilot shall not exceed 60 bank /
30 pitch. (I am not sure what the crewmember part implies, though?) I
don't think it means that the pilot has the option to NOT wear a 'chute, but
rather limits his maneuvers to no more than 60 / 30 if not everyone on board
wears one?
I also think it means if flying solo, it's totally at your own discretion in
the US?
*And please, if you are flying under the Canadian rules, just enjoy the
freedom to wear a parachute at your own will!*
Konrad Werner
ABQ, NM, US
P.S. I just checked with the local FSDO, and the person I talked to couldn't
explain it to me either! There you go.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
>
>Let's see what it say's in FAR # 91.307 (c):
>"Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no
>pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may
>execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds:
>(1) A bank of 60 degress relative to the horizon; or (2) A nose-up or
>nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon. Then there are
>also some exceptions as noted in paragraph (d). Please read and interpret
>for yourself.
>
>The way I read and understand it, it says:
>Unless "EACH" occupant wears a 'chute, the pilot shall not exceed 60 bank /
>30 pitch. (I am not sure what the crewmember part implies, though?)
It means if someone is in the airplane with you and you do acro, *everyone*
must wear a 'chute.
>I don't think it means that the pilot has the option to NOT wear a 'chute, but
>rather limits his maneuvers to no more than 60 / 30 if not everyone on board
>wears one?
Right.
>I also think it means if flying solo, it's totally at your own discretion in
>the US?
That is the way I read it also.
>P.S. I just checked with the local FSDO, and the person I talked to couldn't
>explain it to me either! There you go.
That doesn't surprise me at all. I find it usually takes me some time to
find out who at the FSDO knows their stuff and who doesn't.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
> I think the headlines has somewhere the word "LEGAL" in there?
Fair enough, but the post you were responding to was expressing an opinion
about what is or is not safe, which has nothing whatsoever to do with what is
or is not legal. What's legal is what we decide is legal, and in order to make
good decisions we need open debate. In that context, if you say, "This is the
regulation and this is why it makes sense," that's productive. To say, "This
is the regulation, end of discussion," is obviously less productive. I'm
putting words in your mouth, but that was the impression I took from your post.
In addition, this group is international, and regulations vary from country to
country. Some of the things that have been decried as "illegal" in this thread
are entirely legal in my country, and presumably other countries that are
represented here.
Tedd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Basiliere" <discrab(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Spins a Legal Manover |
Yea Brian; All the IAC competitors I know interpret the chute reg as you do.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian
Lloyd
Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: Spins a Legal Manover
>
>Let's see what it say's in FAR # 91.307 (c):
>"Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no
>pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may
>execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds:
>(1) A bank of 60 degress relative to the horizon; or (2) A nose-up or
>nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon. Then there are
>also some exceptions as noted in paragraph (d). Please read and interpret
>for yourself.
>
>The way I read and understand it, it says:
>Unless "EACH" occupant wears a 'chute, the pilot shall not exceed 60 bank /
>30 pitch. (I am not sure what the crewmember part implies, though?)
It means if someone is in the airplane with you and you do acro, *everyone*
must wear a 'chute.
>I don't think it means that the pilot has the option to NOT wear a 'chute,
but
>rather limits his maneuvers to no more than 60 / 30 if not everyone on
board
>wears one?
Right.
>I also think it means if flying solo, it's totally at your own discretion
in
>the US?
That is the way I read it also.
>P.S. I just checked with the local FSDO, and the person I talked to
couldn't
>explain it to me either! There you go.
That doesn't surprise me at all. I find it usually takes me some time to
find out who at the FSDO knows their stuff and who doesn't.
Brian Lloyd
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.530.676.1113 - voice
+1.360.838.9669 - fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Konrad Werner" <Connywerner(at)wans.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
Dear Tedd,
> Fair enough, but the post you were responding to was expressing an opinion
> about what is or is not safe, which has nothing whatsoever to do with what
is
> or is not legal.
** I guess this post has evolved from the practical usage to include the
legal usage as well?
> What's legal is what "we" decide is legal . . . .
** Are your aviation reg's in Canada just used as a guideline for pilots,
and everything is really up to them?? Lucky people!
> ...and in order to make good decisions we need open debate. In that
context, if you say,
> "This is the regulation and this is why it makes sense," that's
productive.
> To say, "This is the regulation, end of discussion," is obviously less
productive.
> I'm putting words in your mouth, but that was the impression I took from
your post.
** Yes you did put your words there, and yes, that is probably what you
thought I said!
Why did I even bother to try put it in my own words, if I have an
impressionist working for me, trying to do the same?
> In addition, this group is international, and regulations vary from
country to
> country. Some of the things that have been decried as "illegal" in this
thread
> are entirely legal in my country, and presumably other countries that are
> represented here.
** If what I said does not even effect you due to your location, then why
would you even bother with a reply. Just simply hit your "Delete"-Key and
waste no harddisk space, nor time!
Just because international laws do differ, does that mean we cannot mention
them in an international forum, out of fear of hurting someones feelings in
a different country?? I sincerely apologize for not putting " > relevant
for U.S. pilots only < " after my post. That would have simplified it a
lot.
To ALL countries without a parachute requirement:
Please consider yourself lucky on the lack of a Legal issue, and enjoy your
Freedom on the practical issue of wearing a 'chute at your own leasure?
Wearing a 'chute is not a guarantee of survival, but the odds are much
better in case something structural goes bad on you. We all have lost
friends due to technical malfunctions of every kind imaginable. But in the
END, it is, or maybe "was" your own decision to wear or not wear a
parachute.
Tedd, Do you want to go into business together exporting "unused"
Parachutes from Canada into the U.S.? I bet you have an abundant supply and
we have the need due to our regulations here. How about 50% off listprice on
your unused Canopies?
> Tedd
Konrad
P.S.
Dear Readers, please be my guest to hit "Your" Delete button right now?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
IF and only IF I had a chute I would use it to do spins with. Loops etc.. I
would do solo without a chute but not with a passenger (without a shute)
ONLY because of it being non-legal and an explame of tne RV6a will be over a
certain about of pounds to do areo work.
Justin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: Spins a Legal Manover
>
>
> >
> >Let's see what it say's in FAR # 91.307 (c):
> >"Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute,
no
> >pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember)
may
> >execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds:
> >(1) A bank of 60 degress relative to the horizon; or (2) A nose-up or
> >nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon. Then there are
> >also some exceptions as noted in paragraph (d). Please read and interpret
> >for yourself.
> >
> >The way I read and understand it, it says:
> >Unless "EACH" occupant wears a 'chute, the pilot shall not exceed 60 bank
/
> >30 pitch. (I am not sure what the crewmember part implies, though?)
>
> It means if someone is in the airplane with you and you do acro,
*everyone*
> must wear a 'chute.
>
> >I don't think it means that the pilot has the option to NOT wear a
'chute, but
> >rather limits his maneuvers to no more than 60 / 30 if not everyone on
board
> >wears one?
>
> Right.
>
> >I also think it means if flying solo, it's totally at your own discretion
in
> >the US?
>
> That is the way I read it also.
>
> >P.S. I just checked with the local FSDO, and the person I talked to
couldn't
> >explain it to me either! There you go.
>
> That doesn't surprise me at all. I find it usually takes me some time to
> find out who at the FSDO knows their stuff and who doesn't.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.530.676.1113 - voice
> +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James & Shalise Cash" <jcash(at)granbury.com> |
| Subject: | FA: New Christen Manual Fuel Pump 844 |
Hello,
I have a new Christen #844 manual fuel pump for sale on ebay. If you're
interested:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1822739054
Thanks,
Jimmy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins a Legal Manover |
Justin,
The RV-6(A) can handle two person aerobatics, provided the people are not
pegging out the bubba scale. My -6 has seen 6 +G's for about 2 seconds
duration at 1465 #'s gross. No problems at all. I keep the load factor
around 4.5 +G's when flying acro with the occassional 5 G's when I'm tail
end charlie for some in-trial formation acro. But like I said before, I
don't carry passengers 98% of the time.
Rick Caldwell
RV-6
>ONLY because of it being non-legal and an explame of tne RV6a will be over
>a
>certain about of pounds to do areo work.
>
>Justin
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James & Shalise Cash" <jcash(at)granbury.com> |
| Subject: | FA: New Christen Manual Fuel Pump 844, corrected link |
Sorry to repost, but the link needed correction.
Hello,
I have a new Christen #844 manual fuel pump for sale on ebay. If you're
interested:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1822739054
I also have a Marvel Schelbler Carb, MA-4SPA at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1822732295
Thanks,
Jimmy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James & Shalise Cash" <jcash(at)granbury.com> |
| Subject: | FS: Whirlwind Prop and Woodward Governor |
Like new Whirlwind Model 200, Constant Speed, composite,acrobatic prop!
Only 17.8 hours, when removed from Pitts which was parted out for sale
(to avoid builder's liability). Beautiful 2 bladed prop, with McCauley
hub (B2D34C214). Nickle leading edges for erosion protection. Also
included is the Whirlwind 14" composite spinner. No damage, excellent
condition. $5,995 with buyer paying for shipping.
Also, I have a zero time Woodward Governor set up for a McCauley hub
(pressure to increase pitch). $850.
I'll sell them both for $6595.
Thanks,
Jimmy Cash
Granbury, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Browsing Feature! |
Dear Listers,
I thought I'd post a little reminder to everyone about a very slick feature
of the email Lists here at Matronics. You can now use Netscape or Internet
Explorer to browse the current messages on your favorite List! The List
Browse Function tracks the current 7 day's worth of List messages for any
given List. Indexes are updated every 30 minutes with new messages that
have been posted. You can resort the message indexes by Thread, Subject,
Author, or Date and easily track and find current threads.
A number of List members have written to say that they love the List
Browser because they can keep tabs on the latest List messages throughout
the day without having to constantly check their email or wait for the
Digest issue to come out.
You can check out the List Browse Feature by going to the following URL and
clicking on the List of your choice:
http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
Enjoy!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Bedell" <bedelk(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | XDP4000X-List: unhappy |
All-
I hooked up my xdp-4000x and it sounds like crap. I ordered the necessary cable
from online and tried to tune it, but it just got worse. Is there something missing
htat I need to do to get it to work. When I bypass it with rca splitters
the res of my system works like a charm. I have the 6001ES running three 10'
ES subs. Then 2 1805 ES's handling everything else. Aside from the problems with
the 4x, there is a huge disparity between cd volume and radio volume. I mean
huge!!!. I can max out radio volume and it sounds ok, then pop in a cd and
half way blows mee out of the cab. Any ideas, I anm just so dissapointed right
now....
From: Matt Dralle <DRALLE(at)MATRONICS.COM>
Reply-To: xdp4000x-list(at)matronics.com
To: Email-Lists(at)matronics.com
Subject: XDP4000X-List: List Browsing Feature!
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:52:33 -0700
-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: Matt Dralle
Dear Listers,
I thought I'd post a little reminder to everyone about a very slick feature
of the email Lists here at Matronics. You can now use Netscape or Internet
Explorer to browse the current messages on your favorite List! The List
Browse Function tracks the current 7 day's worth of List messages for any
given List. Indexes are updated every 30 minutes with new messages that
have been posted. You can resort the message indexes by Thread, Subject,
Author, or Date and easily track and find current threads.
A number of List members have written to say that they love the List
Browser because they can keep tabs on the latest List messages throughout
the day without having to constantly check their email or wait for the
Digest issue to come out.
You can check out the List Browse Feature by going to the following URL and
clicking on the List of your choice:
http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
Enjoy!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DavidAWilks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 06/13/02 |
Lonestar Fly-In at Glaveston, Texas!! November 15-17
We will have lots of free giveaways and a comple schedule of events. Everything
from warbird to historical tours.
For information, visit the web page to find out more!!
http://www.davidawilks.com/fly-in
Hope to see you there!!
David Wilks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DavidAWilks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 06/14/02 |
I would like to invite all builders, flyers and Enthusiasts to our November 15-17
Fly-In!! I am hosting this event in the name of FUN!! The host airport is
Galveston, Texas at the Lonestar Flight Museum.
Come join the fun and enter the show. Local EAA chapters will be making Young
Eagle flights throughout the day. Phillips 66 fuel rebates and local fuel pricing
will be in effect for all flyers.
Saturday night we will host a banquet inside the Lonestar Flight Museum. Nothing
better than dancing the night away with history surrounding us.
For more information and a list of all the historic tour sites, please view our
website.
http://www.davidawilks.com/fly-in
Hope to see you there!!
David Wilks
832-282-4004
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bohan" <tbohan(at)strato.net> |
| Subject: | Acro wing for Cub |
I am considering building a Clipped Wing Cub type (not a Wag Areo
Cub but something like it) and I want to put a good symmetrical wing on
it. I just saw the nice article on the clipped wing Taylorcraft in the
latest IAC mag. He said it is a "Swick" wing...where can I get more
information on this wing and can I use it on a cub type fuselage? I
don't plan on using it for more than Sportsman category acro but more
for fun and teaching my kids to fly a taildragger, with some mild acro
for me. I have a J3 now but I want something with a radio and more
performance/acro ability. Thanks. Tim Bohan, Sebring, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Acro wing for Cub |
Tim--
See
http://www.taylorcraft.org/resources.html
or
Contact: Mike Swick (McKinney, TX) 972-347-2596
Boyd
RV-Super 6
PS: Fly on down to Venice (KVNC) sometime and say Hi.
Tim Bohan wrote:
>
> I am considering building a Clipped Wing Cub type (not a Wag Areo
> Cub but something like it) and I want to put a good symmetrical wing on
> it. I just saw the nice article on the clipped wing Taylorcraft in the
> latest IAC mag. He said it is a "Swick" wing...where can I get more
> information on this wing and can I use it on a cub type fuselage? I
> don't plan on using it for more than Sportsman category acro but more
> for fun and teaching my kids to fly a taildragger, with some mild acro
> for me. I have a J3 now but I want something with a radio and more
> performance/acro ability. Thanks. Tim Bohan, Sebring, Fl.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Four New Email Lists At Matronics!! |
Dear Listers,
I've just added four new email Lists to the current lineup at
Matronics. These new lists include:
KRNet:
krnet-List(at)matronics.com The RANS KR1 and KR2 Series
Cub:
cub-List(at)matronics.com The Piper J-3 Cub
RV10:
rv10-List(at)matronics.com The New 4-place RV from Van's!
Europa:
europa(at)matronics.com The Slick European Composite
All the usual features are available with the new Lists including the
search engine, archive download, 7-day List browse, and PhotoShare!
To sign up for any or all of the new lists, please go to the List
Subscription page and put in your email address and select the Lists of
your choice. The URL for the Subscription page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscibe
Don't forget that its your posts that generate traffic on the respective
Lists! Post an introduction and a description of your project or dreams!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [With Good URL This Time!] Four New Email Lists At Matronics!! |
[Typo in the subscribe page URL last time - SORRY! -Matt]
Dear Listers,
I've just added four new email Lists to the current lineup at
Matronics. These new lists include:
KRNet:
krnet-List(at)matronics.com The RANS KR1 and KR2 Series
Cub:
cub-List(at)matronics.com The Piper J-3 Cub
RV10:
rv10-List(at)matronics.com The New 4-place RV from Van's!
Europa:
europa(at)matronics.com The Slick European Composite
All the usual features are available with the new Lists including the
search engine, archive download, 7-day List browse, and PhotoShare!
To sign up for any or all of the new lists, please go to the List
Subscription page and put in your email address and select the Lists of
your choice. The URL for the Subscription page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Don't forget that its your posts that generate traffic on the respective
Lists! Post an introduction and a description of your project or dreams!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James & Shalise Cash" <jcash(at)granbury.com> |
, ,
| Subject: | FA: New com radio and Woodward prop governor |
Hey everybody,
Just wanted to give you a heads up that I have a couple of good deals on
eBay:
New Michel radio:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1852114559
0SMOH Woodward prop governor for McCauley hub:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1852126114
Thanks,
Jimmy Cash
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James & Shalise Cash" <jcash(at)granbury.com> |
, ,
| Subject: | Corrected address: FA: New com radio and Woodward prop |
governor
Hey everybody,
Just wanted to give you a heads up that I have a couple of good deals on
eBay:
New Michel radio:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1852114559
0SMOH Woodward prop governor for McCauley hub:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1852126114
Thanks,
Jimmy Cash
PS: If you have trouble with the links, make sure the "" sign is in
front of the item number. It gets scrambled sometimes, putting the""
in front of the last digit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Getting Bounced From Matronics Lists... |
Dear Listers,
I have two programs I run regularly to purge the various Matronics email
lists of bad email addresses. I referred to these as my Email Weasels and
there is a daily version that is run automatically every night at midnight
and there is a and a monthly version that I run by hand at roughly 30-day
intervals.
The Daily Weasel grinds through the 8 to 10mb of bounced email that is
generated each day looking for obvious things like "user unknown", "host
unknown", and other things that usually mean the user's email address
doesn't exist any longer. The Daily Weasel has been purging 5 to 10 email
addresses each night.
The Monthly Weasel gets more serious about the task and sends a single
message to each list member with specially generated headers and content
information. Any bounces or replies to these messages are considered
errors and the email address is eligible for purging. This program is
particularly useful for "weaseling out" email addresses that are actually
being forwarded to by another email address that is subscribed to a List
and otherwise would not be identifiable. The Monthly Weasel purges roughly
100 nonexistent email addresses each month when it is run.
To check to see if your address has been removed by either of the Email
Weasel programs, you can check the Weasel Status Web Page at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If you find your email address on the Weasel List, but are certain that
everything is working fine now, simply go the Matronics Subscription page
and resubscribe your address. No harm, no foul. The subscription URL is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
That all having been said, I've noticed that the Daily Weasel may have been
getting a little too aggressive in purging addresses recently and a number
of people have written asking if and why they'd been dropped from the List.
A couple of months ago I rewrote the Daily Weasel program to include a
wider variety of errors and more aggressively purge. One of the new purge
criteria that I added seems to occur a fair amount of the time (Connection
Deferred) even though the address is really okay.
As of today, I've removed the Connection Deferred criteria from the Daily
Weasel Rule set and this should decrease the number of "false positives"
and unnecessary unsubscribed.
Again, if you get unsubscribed by either of the Email Weasel utilities,
simply go to the subscription page and resubscribe:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
"RV-List" , ,
,
"Rick-RV-4-Aero/formation ASEW/E32/AC1" <39asew.e32.ac1(at)incirlik.af.mil>,
"Pat Perry RV-4 +" ,
"Dog Fighter-Terry Burch" ,
"Alex Peterson" ,
| Subject: | Inverted Valve for Brake Fluid Reservoir... A.K.A. "The |
Reservoir Dog"
Hi Guys & Gals,
I hope I ain't bothering you, but Alex Peterson (one of our own
aerobatic RV pilots) just perfected his latest/greatest invention... "The
Reservoir Dog". This little valve keeps the brake fluid in the reservoir
while we are sloshing around, rolling upside down, tossing our tail
feathers, etc...
If you are interested (and who doesn't want to keep that caustic pink
fluid from dripping all over & ruining the valuables inside and outside our
engine compartments?, not to mention what it will do to our beautiful paint)
just email Alex at alexpeterson(at)usjet.net and he will zip one of these
puppies right to you! Believe me you will love 'em, I know I do.
Chuck
legal disclaimer: I have not, nor will not, receive any compensation for
endorsing this item... I just tried one, think it's great!!! and would like
to see a good product, new entrepreneur succeed!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Mark Jefferies ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Mark Jefferies
Subject: Laser Z 200
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/mark@yakuk.com.09.18.2002/index.html
--------------------------------------------
o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
o Main Photo Share Index:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flylow38(at)aol.com |
>2 Pilot Emergency Chutes For Sale. Used in my RV4 for 6 months. Very
>compact.
> > Chute 1 is a Red 26' foot Micro Softie with Quick release buckles.$550.00
Lowered from $750.00. MFG. June-1988, it is a STRONG Mid Lite 26' canopy
>The container is a Micro Softie and was MFG. May 1989. It was used a few
>times in 1993 but thats about it except for my occasional use last year.
>
> > Chute 2 is a Blue with red trim National backpack 360 with sheepskin
>padding.>The National 360 was MFG. Dec. 1985. 24' Phantom Canopy.
> > WAS $575.00 now $450.00>Both chutes were repacked last year and are in
excellent >condition.> > Located in Southern California. I Paid $1450.00 for
both, I will sell for
>$950 for both. Buyer Pays shipping. Located in Southern California, I can
meet possibly half way to pick up depending on distance.
> > Contact Will Whiteside 818-359-1106 whiteside(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randallh <randallh(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | EndAftershock survivormini.swf |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
"Dog Fighter-Terry Burch" , ,
"Alex Peterson" ,
| Subject: | Fw: RV-List: Brake Fluid Reservoir Loc. on a tip-up |
Mark,
How ya' doin' down there at "The Possum Works"? Funny ya'll mentioning
the brake fluid reservoir. I was just talking/emailing with a fellow pilot
about them. That's a good idea of yours, mounting it on the rear of the
subpanel (for easy access), but if I might suggest a GREAT little stocking
stuffer you could ask Old Saint Nick for.... the "Reservoir Dog" from Alex
Peterson. Yep, you'll never have to worry about "why is my sock wet?"
ever again. This handy dandy little cap/valve stops that red (pink or
clear) caustic chemicals from dripping out; EVEN when you gets upside down.
Now some of us don't wanna do flip flops or fancy smancy maneuvers, rolls, &
loops, etc... ( though I ain't met that "someone" yet) but you know that
even in steep turns and bounced landings that red stuff sloshes. So if ya'
looking to keep your bird free from them kinda problems, contact Alex {off
list at Alexpeterson(at)usjet.net } and he'll make you one too.
Chuck
p.s. There're "inexpensive", and I don't get nothin' for sayin' this... I
just enjoy the one I installed (can you say 3 minute installation) and I
like seeing one of our own list members succeed.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net>
Subject: RV-List: Brake Fluid Reservoir Loc. on a tip-up
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips
>
> Howdy List-
>
> Anyone installed their reservoir on the rear of the subpanel so it can
> be accessed when the canopy is open? I see one less hole in the
> firewall, more space on firewall, easier to check level and detect leaks
> (why is my sock wet?) & the vent could be run off with a little tube to
> somewhere... Other pros & cons, please!
>
> From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2002 List Fund Raiser - Please Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
During November of each year, I have a voluntary Email List Fund Raiser to
support the continued operation, development, maintenance and upgrade of
the Email Forums sponsored here. Your Contributions go directly into
improvements in the systems that support the Lists and to pay for the
Internet connectivity primarily dedicated to supporting the Lists.
The traffic on the Lists continues to grow and the numbers are nothing
short of impressive! Here are some statistics that show much traffic the
Lists generated last year alone:
11/01/2001 - 10/31/2002
Web server hits: 8,700,000 (727,000/mo)
Incoming Email Posts: 51,259 (4,271/mo) *
* This number is multiplied by the total number of email addresses
subscribed to the given List. The actual number of email message processed
is in the 50,000,000 range for last year!!
The new Internet provider, Speakeasy, has been providing extremely fast and
reliable service over the last year, and this has certainly been a
refreshing change from previous providers!
There were a couple of new features added at the tail-end of last year
including the new List Browse Feature ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
), and the List Photoshare which have been both very popular. Many people
have written to say how much they enjoy the on-line browsing capability of
current week's messages. The 184 new Photoshares (
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ) added over the last year attests to
its acceptance and appreciation in the community as well.
I have upgraded both the email and web server OS systems recently to the
latest - well almost the latest - version of Redhat Linux and Kernel
2.4.19, both of which have been working very well and quite reliably.
What does the future hold? Well, something pretty exciting I'm
hoping... I am currently evaluating a new, commercially available software
package that runs under Linux and provides a complete web-based Email List
service akin to what those other guys use. The difference will be that
there won't be any annoying advertisements and popup ads on the Matronics
system!! The system will continue to be dedicated to furthering Lists
activities and not trying to sell you something you don't want. My hope is
to keep most if not all of the current functionality in place and add the
new software system over the top. Some of the system will be replaced
(like majordomo), but the lists will work much like they do today - only
BETTER! As I mentioned, I am currently in the evaluation stage of this and
have yet to select a final product. Suffice to say some facelifts are
definitely on the way!
Unlike many of the other "list servers" on the web these days, I have a
strict no-commercial-advertisement policy on the Matronics Lists and
associated List websites. I have been approached by a number of vendors
recently with advertising deals that have been very tempting. However, my
commitment to providing a grass-roots, non-commercial environment
prevails! Commercialism on the Internet seems to be increasing
exponentially every year with more and more SPAM and pop up ads, not to
mention the ever increasing Virus attacks. My goal with the Matronics List
Service is to provide my members with a commercial-free, safe, and
high-performance system in which to share information, ideas, and
camaraderie.
I recoup my upgrade, maintenance, and operating costs by having a List Fund
Raiser once a year during November. During this time, I ask List members
to donate a small amount of money to support the continued operation of the
Lists over the upcoming year. Contributions in the $20, $30, and $50 range
are common. This year I have completely revamped the Contribution website,
and have added the ability to use PayPal to make your Contribution in
addition to the traditional Visa/MC and Personal Check Options. Its easier
and faster than ever before to make your Contribution!! For those who are
accustomed to using PayPal to make Internet purchases, will appreciate the
ease and speed of using this handy method of payment to make their List
Contribution.
The best news this year, however, is that I have a couple of fantastic Gift
offers to support the List Fund Raiser! Andy Gold of The Builder's
Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ) will be generously donating a
FREE Jeppesen Flight Bag to anyone making a $50 or more List Contribution
during the Fund Raiser! This is a great bag and something you'll surely
what to get your hands on. Thanks Andy, for this great incentive!!
In addition to the great Flight Bag, I will also be offering a FREE
Matronics List Archive CDROM for a $50 or greater Contribution! This is a
complete set of archives for all Email Lists currently hosted by
Matronics. The Archives date back to the beginning of the each List. In
the case of the RV-List, for example, this includes archives all the way
back to 1990! That's about 133Mb alone! Also included on the CD is a copy
of Chip Gibbion's Windows Archive Search Utility and a precompiled
search-index for each archive on the CD.
Better yet?! You can get BOTH the Flight Bag AND the Archive CD for a
Contribution of $75 or more which is actually LESS than the combined retail
price on the two items!!! How can you go wrong? Get some great stuff AND
support your Lists at the same time!
Over the next month I'll be posting a few reminder messages about the List
Fund Raiser, and I ask for your patience and understanding during the
process. Remember that the Lists are *completely* funded through the
generous Contributions of its members. That's it! There's no support from
a bloated advertising budget or deep pockets somewhere. Its all made
possible through YOUR support!
I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who supports the
List this year. Your generosity contributes directly to the quality of the
experience here.
To make your List Contribution using a Visa or MasterCard, PalPal, or with
a Personal Check, please go to the URL link below. Here you can find
additional details on this year's great free Gifts as well as additional
information on the various methods of payment.
SSL Secure Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Again, I would like to thank everyone who supports the Lists this
year! Your Contributions truly make it all possible!!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New List Digest Feature!! [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
I've added a new feature to the Digest format of the Lists tonight. At the
top of each digest you will find a new Index Listing of all of the messages
found within that Digest including the Message Number, Subject, Poster, and
Time of Day posted.
I've also added a "Message Number" header to each message within the Digest
so that its easy to find 'just the message' you were looking for!
Sorry for the double posting of the digests tonight - the first time I
didn't quite have the code right and a few "bogus" entries made it into the
Index. I went ahead and reposted the Digest so that everyone could see how
the Index-to-Message mapping really worked.
Special 'thanks' to Gary Hall for not only suggesting a Digest Index, but
also supplying a few samples on how it might look. Gary, I think you'll be
quite pleased with the format!
Don't forget that were right in the middle of this year's List Fund Raiser
and if you haven't already made your Contribution, you own it to yourself
to check out the great free Gifts that are available this year with your
qualifying Contribution.
The Lists are operated completely though the support of it members, and so
its up to YOU to get that credit card out and make that $20, $30, or $50
show of support for the continued operation of the Lists.
Won't you take a couple of minutes and make a quick Contribution on the all
new, streamlined List Support web site? I've also added a
Payment-through-PayPal option this year, and this is proving a very popular
method of payment. Don't forget to check out the great free gifts you can
get with a qualifying Contribution this year. I can't believe how popular
they've been this year! Hurry and get your's today and support the Lists
at the same time!
Here's the SSL Secure URL for making your Contribution:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your Support!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser - What Listers Are Saying... |
Dear Listers,
First, I'd like say *thank you* to everyone that's already made a
Contribution to this year's List Fund Raiser! Thank you! If you haven't
already made a Contribution, won't you take a movement and show your
support for these valuable services? Since there's no advertising or other
forms of direct commercialism on the forums to support the Lists, its soley
YOUR GENEROSITY that keeps them running!!
Won't please take a minute and make a Contribution via the SSL secure web
site via Credit Card, Paypal, or personal check. Here's the URL:
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
This year, I've been getting some *really* nice comments from Contributors
and I thought I'd pass along a few of them below. What does the List mean
to *you*?
Thank you for your support!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
_________________ What your fellow Listers are saying... _________________
...great service!!
Greg B.
They have been a great assistance to me in building my RV-8.
Kevin H.
...very much appreciated.
Donald M.
Great site...
Angus F.
...invaluable resource.
Ronald C
[The List] has played a big part in continuing my project at
those times when I got stuck for some reason.
Jeff D.
Although I am only a reader, I find the list very helpful.
Oswaldo F.
The lists are a fantastic resource and are helping me very much...
Kenyon B.
The list is part of my life.
Ron C.
The CD will free up some hard disk space on my personal PC.
Jeff D.
...unbelievably useful.
Dan O.
...dependable and valued source of builder information.
Jerry C.
My daily lifeline!
Owen B.
...frequently get questions answered on the List.
Billy W.
Don't know how any first-time builder could get by without the lists.
Rick R.
...great source of information and motivation.
Jef V.
Super resource!
David P.
The information presented is very helpful to the building process.
James B.
Wonderful Service!
Wendell D.
The lists are great!
F. Robert M.
...very valuable to this builder.
William C.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser Continues... |
Marie Murillo
Dear Listers,
Just a quick reminder this morning that we're well into this year's Email
List Fund Raiser. Response has been great so far and there has been a lot
of interest in the Gift options. Speaking of those Gifts, I received a
sample of the Jeppesen Flight Bag from Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com this weekend, and let me just say that this is
an extremely fine quality unit. Its very light, folds down into a very
small form for storage, and will hold a whole lot of your "pilot
stuff"! For a mere $50 List Contribution, one of these very nice bags
could be yours! You'll be the envy of all your friends.
Won't you make a Contribution today to support the these valuable Email
List Services? Please remember that its YOUR generosity that entirely
supports the continued operation and upgrade of the Lists. That's it - no
ads, no banners - just good clean fun; that is, with your support of course!
Please take a moment and make a generous Contribution today. It only takes
a minute using the newly redesigned Contribution Web Site where you can use
either a Credit Card, PayPal, or a Personal Check to make your donation.
The URL for the SSL Secure Contribution web site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
And I'd like to say a special "thank you!" to everyone one who has made
Contribution so far this year!! I really appreciate your generosity!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
Wow, I can't belive some of the nice things people have been saying about
the Lists in that little message box on the Contribution form! I've
included more of the great comments since the last WLAS. Thank you to
everyone that has made a Contribution thus far and for all the great
feedback! Please know that I really appreciate the comments and support!!
Have a look at some of your fellow members thoughts below and decide if the
Lists mean at least that much to you or perhaps even more...
Won't you take a moment and make a Contribution to support these
Commercial-Free, SPAM-Free, Virus-Free, high-performance List
services? Its your direct support through this yearly Fund Raiser that
enables all of these valuable services you've come to expect of the
Matronics Lists.
Thank you for your Contribution!!
SSL Secure Web Site - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Matt Dralle
EMail List Administrator
=====================================================================
=================== What Listers Are Saying - II ====================
=====================================================================
I check this List 4 to 5 times a day...
-Bruce B.
These are without a doubt among the best managed
Lists to which I subscribe.
-Terry W.
Thank you for providing such a wonderful service.
-Roy W.
...fine service!
-Christopher A.
Best list on the Internet!
-Geroge A.
Great list with a host of features.
-David A.
Having built part of a kit... ...I know exactly how
much this list means to me and others.
-Curtis H.
As always... you've got a real cool & very useful
service going...
-Chuck R.
I shudder to think of the trouble I would have had
getting this project airborne without this list!
-Grant C.
...enjoy everyone's input.
-Doug P.
I read the [the List] every day...
-Ronald S.
Whenever I feel like not building on my day
off....I open my mail and the [the List] gets me
pumped and ready to hit it!
-Tom E.
The Digest Message subject list is an excellent
addition.
-Kevin S.
Certainly the [the List] has been a valuable source
for building support and advice, but there's another
benefit,... the wonderful friends that we meet and
keep for years and years!
-Fred H.
What a great forum to exchange ideas and info.
-Terry L.
The List is my daily RV fix.
-Neil H.
I always received comments and suggestions when
I requested them.
-Thomas G.
Best resource a builder could ever have. A daily
must!
-Robert C.
Thanks for your gift - these web sites!
-Tom P.
...great info.
-Richard W.
The List empowers all RV builders to achieve success...
-Mark G.
I've been reading the postings for a month now and
decided to take the plunge as a result of the
helpfulness and spirit of cooperation I observed.
-Tim P.
...invaluable service.
-Ford F.
I check in at least twice daily for my e-mail "Fix".
-John S.
Its worth every penny of my contribution.
-Paul M.
Wonderful web site and it keeps getting better.
-Jim H.
A valuable list which has certainly helped me.
-Andrew G.
...the List helps so many.
-Don J.
I really appreciate the site and find it interesting
to speak to people who are into this type of aircraft.
-Larry M.
This is a great recreation for me.
-Larry B.
[The List] keeps me up to date and provides a fantastic
resource for information.
-Terry F.
Lists are a great resource!
-Daniel S.
...great service and professional administration of
the Lists.
-Chris R.
I really appreciate the List.
-Edward O.
Worth every penny, and then some!
-Kenyon B.
...great service.
-Ralph H.
Your unselfish contribution to the experimental
aircraft movement is very much appreciated!
-Alex M.
Great help on the Aeroelectric list.
-Bruce B.
It helps on a daily basis.
-Tim G.
Thanks for providing this outstanding service to us!
-Michel T.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com> |
Has anyone flown in a KR2 and done areobatics in it? If so how do they do.
Justin
KR2S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | LOC Coming Soon... |
Dear Listers,
This year's List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner. I'll be
posting the LOC on or about December 1. The List of Contributors is a
directory of everyone's name that made a Contribution during this year's
List Fund Raiser. Its kind of my way of publicly thanking everyone that so
generously made a Contribution to support the continued operation and
upgrade of these Lists.
Support your Lists today and make sure that your name is on the upcoming
LOC! Your friends will be checking no doubt to see if YOU make your
Contribution because THEY did! :-)
Support Contribution Info - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "T Bronson" <bipetype(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Comfortable parachutes |
Hi Folks,
I'm about to start building a Rocket, and I thought this list would be a
good source of opinions. I have checked several of the list archives and
haven't found what I'm looking for.
I intend to set my airplane up for full-time parachute use, so the question
is:
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "T Bronson" <bipetype(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Comfortable parachutes |
Me again. I indavertantly sent the last post before it was done.
My question for the list is:
What type of parachute (seat pack, back pack, etc.) do you think is the
most comfortable for full-time (including cross-country flight) wear?
Specific models and brands would help, but general information is good too.
I have checked various archives and found no info on this topic (but LOTS of
discussion on whether to wear one!).
Thanks.
Tim Bronson
Pittsburgh, PA
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR(at)ci.boulder.co.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Comfortable parachutes |
Sorry, my new seat packs:Butler seat packs:Strong
>>> bipetype(at)hotmail.com 11/17/02 07:12AM >>>
Me again. I indavertantly sent the last post before it was done.
My question for the list is:
What type of parachute (seat pack, back pack, etc.) do you think
is the
most comfortable for full-time (including cross-country flight) wear?
Specific models and brands would help, but general information is good
too.
I have checked various archives and found no info on this topic (but
LOTS of
discussion on whether to wear one!).
Thanks.
Tim Bronson
Pittsburgh, PA
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Contribution
Gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aerobatic-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR(at)ci.boulder.co.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Comfortable parachutes |
Sir; I have hundreds of hours x/c with both types and ... it depends.
The old military seat packs are HARD. The newer seat packs are as good
as any C-172 seat. The backpacks depend on what your fanny is on, the
Sukhois have a hard pan and my back packs have a removable (thin) foam
pad for the fanny. Since I try to limit my legs to 2 hours or so life
is not so bad. BTW, I always wear my 'chutes any time I fly Yak or
Sukhoi. Respectfully, Rick
>>> bipetype(at)hotmail.com 11/17/02 07:12AM >>>
Me again. I indavertantly sent the last post before it was done.
My question for the list is:
What type of parachute (seat pack, back pack, etc.) do you think
is the
most comfortable for full-time (including cross-country flight) wear?
Specific models and brands would help, but general information is good
too.
I have checked various archives and found no info on this topic (but
LOTS of
discussion on whether to wear one!).
Thanks.
Tim Bronson
Pittsburgh, PA
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Contribution
Gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aerobatic-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Jones" <kevin-jones(at)snet.net> |
Is the Dragonfly capable of aerobatics? Specifically, will it snap roll? What
is the entering speed for a loop? Comments?
kj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wes Warner <wes(at)lppcs.com> |
The only dragonfly I know of is a tail-less biplane. If this is the plane
you are referring to, I wouldn't try anything of that nature in it. As to
if it would snap-roll, I wouldn't think so, since they are designed to resist
stalls.
Wes
>
> Is the Dragonfly capable of aerobatics? Specifically, will it snap roll?
What is the entering speed for a loop? Comments?
> kj
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Time to go to... Group Therapy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Jones" <kevin-jones(at)snet.net> |
The Dragonfly I'm interested in has a canard almost the same as its wing.
It's not a biplane. Well maybe it could be considered a biplane.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wes Warner" <wes(at)lppcs.com>
Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: dragonfly
>
> The only dragonfly I know of is a tail-less biplane. If this is the plane
> you are referring to, I wouldn't try anything of that nature in it. As to
> if it would snap-roll, I wouldn't think so, since they are designed to
resist
> stalls.
>
> Wes
>
> >
> > Is the Dragonfly capable of aerobatics? Specifically, will it snap
roll? What is the entering speed for a loop? Comments?
> > kj
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> Time to go to... Group Therapy.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Jones" <kevin-jones(at)snet.net> |
I got the following message. Is this a legitimate use of the List?
kj
----- Original Message -----
From: William
To: kevin-jones(at)snet.net
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 3:42 PM
Subject: RE: Aerobatic-List: dragonfly (verification)
William here,
I'm protecting myself from receiving junk mail.
Just this once, click the link below so I can receive your emails. You won't have to do this again. http://spamarrest.com/a?6544408:480868
You are receiving this message in response to your email to William, a Spam Arrest
customer.
Spam Arrest requests that senders verify themselves before their email is delivered.
When you click the above link, you will be taken to a page with a graphic on
it. Simply read the word in the graphic, type it into the form, and you're verified.
You will only need to do this once per Spam Arrest customer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Halverson <william(at)netpros.net> |
When someone sends me an email, it goes through a spam filter ... so you
if you send an email to me, as opposed to the group (or use the reply to
all feature accidentally and send a reply to my personal email address)
you will be asked to complete the challenge so my email server knows the
email came from a real person and not a spambot.
Messages sent to the list in response to a message I post - that don't
include my personal email address - don't generate such a request from
the filter.
Hope that helps!
Bill
Kevin Jones wrote:
>
>I got the following message. Is this a legitimate use of the List?
>kj
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: William
> To: kevin-jones(at)snet.net
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 3:42 PM
> Subject: RE: Aerobatic-List: dragonfly (verification)
>
>
> William here,
>
> I'm protecting myself from receiving junk mail.
> Just this once, click the link below so I can receive your emails. You won't have to do this again. http://spamarrest.com/a?6544408:480868
>
>
> You are receiving this message in response to your email to William, a Spam
Arrest customer.
>
> Spam Arrest requests that senders verify themselves before their email is delivered.
>
> When you click the above link, you will be taken to a page with a graphic on
it. Simply read the word in the graphic, type it into the form, and you're verified.
>
> You will only need to do this once per Spam Arrest customer.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wes Warner <wes(at)lppcs.com> |
Bill,
I think all the email responses to the list get this challenge. I
replied to kevins post, and I got a thing from you asking me to fill out a
form. AFAIK your email address wasn't on kevins original post, nor did I
include your address in anything that I typed.
Wes
>
> When someone sends me an email, it goes through a spam filter ... so you
> if you send an email to me, as opposed to the group (or use the reply to
> all feature accidentally and send a reply to my personal email address)
> you will be asked to complete the challenge so my email server knows the
> email came from a real person and not a spambot.
>
> Messages sent to the list in response to a message I post - that don't
> include my personal email address - don't generate such a request from
> the filter.
>
> Hope that helps!
>
> Bill
>
>
> Kevin Jones wrote:
>
> >
> >I got the following message. Is this a legitimate use of the List?
> >kj
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: William
> > To: kevin-jones(at)snet.net
> > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 3:42 PM
> > Subject: RE: Aerobatic-List: dragonfly (verification)
> >
> >
> > William here,
> >
> > I'm protecting myself from receiving junk mail.
> > Just this once, click the link below so I can receive your emails. You won't have to do this again. http://spamarrest.com/a?6544408:480868
> >
> >
> > You are receiving this message in response to your email to William, a Spam
Arrest customer.
> >
> > Spam Arrest requests that senders verify themselves before their email is
delivered.
> >
> > When you click the above link, you will be taken to a page with a graphic
on it. Simply read the word in the graphic, type it into the form, and you're
verified.
> >
> > You will only need to do this once per Spam Arrest customer.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Time to go to... Group Therapy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
I would be surprised if all posts to this list get this challenge.
Matronics sponsors a large number of lists and I belong to several. I am
not aware of any of his (Matt's) lists that have this feature.
I hope this response doesn't get challenged!
Terry
Bill,
I think all the email responses to the list get this challenge. I
replied to kevins post, and I got a thing from you asking me to fill out a
form. AFAIK your email address wasn't on kevins original post, nor did I
include your address in anything that I typed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
I too have received the "Spam Challenge"; each time it was when William's
(Bill's) name and email was on the response I forwarded to the aero list.
Maybe Bill should submit another post to the Aerobatic-List and then we'll
test by replying back (just to the list) and see what happens.
----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Watson <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: RE: Aerobatic-List: Use of list
>
> I would be surprised if all posts to this list get this challenge.
> Matronics sponsors a large number of lists and I belong to several. I am
> not aware of any of his (Matt's) lists that have this feature.
>
> I hope this response doesn't get challenged!
>
> Terry
>
>
> Bill,
> I think all the email responses to the list get this challenge. I
> replied to kevins post, and I got a thing from you asking me to fill out a
> form. AFAIK your email address wasn't on kevins original post, nor did I
> include your address in anything that I typed.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Jones" <kevin-jones(at)snet.net> |
C'mon, people. It's an advertisement. Should they be permitted. If not how
do we stop them?
kj
----- Original Message -----
From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: Fw: Aerobatic-List: Use of list
>
> I too have received the "Spam Challenge"; each time it was when William's
> (Bill's) name and email was on the response I forwarded to the aero list.
> Maybe Bill should submit another post to the Aerobatic-List and then we'll
> test by replying back (just to the list) and see what happens.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Terry Watson <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Aerobatic-List: Use of list
>
>
> >
> > I would be surprised if all posts to this list get this challenge.
> > Matronics sponsors a large number of lists and I belong to several. I
am
> > not aware of any of his (Matt's) lists that have this feature.
> >
> > I hope this response doesn't get challenged!
> >
> > Terry
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill,
> > I think all the email responses to the list get this challenge. I
> > replied to kevins post, and I got a thing from you asking me to fill out
a
> > form. AFAIK your email address wasn't on kevins original post, nor did
I
> > include your address in anything that I typed.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? |
Dear Listers,
I got to thinking today that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund
Raiser and also take the opportunity to express why I think the List
Services here provide a far better experience than the commercial
equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with
running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the
annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I
have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the
members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to
sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From
the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great
majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List
systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage
members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer a great many
benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first
feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you *cannot*
receive a computer v*rus from any of my Lists directly. I've been on a few
other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected
files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their
posts. This just can't happen with my Lists; each incoming message is
filtered and attachments stripped off prior to posting. I provide a Photo
and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with
other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be
prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and
simple. Also, with this photo and file sharing technique, the Archives
don't get loaded up with a huge amounts of bitmap "data" that slows the
Archive Search times.
Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are
available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the
way back to the very beginning of each List and with the super fast Search
Engine, the huge size of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the
data you're looking for. Another feature of the Archives, in my opinion,
is that they have been primarily stripped of all the useless email header
data and all the other header garbage that seems to build up in a typical
email thread.
I have received an extremely positive response from Listers regarding the
List Browse feature and the consensus is that the format and ease of use is
outstanding. Members report that having the previous 7 days worth of
messages online for easy browsing and sorting is hugely beneficial. And
again, as with the real time distribution of List email, the messages are
stripped of all the unnecessary email headers and potentially dangerous
v*ruses. I am currently working on the additional ability to post and/or
reply directly from the List Browse interface. More on this upcoming
feature in the next week or so.
I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain
since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys who I knew and who where
also building RVs. It has grown into over 40 different aviation-related
Email Lists and an associated web site that receives over 9,000,000 hits
each year!! Additionally, the List email system forwards well over
50,000,000 (yes, that 50 MILLION) email messages to subscribers each
year! With all the dot.bombs these days, I think there's a lot of value in
supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and
improving a high quality service at a price that's nearly free.
I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows
in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email
Message, Search the Archives, or use the List Browser. The Lists will be
here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free,
that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and
receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual
List Fund Raiser!
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
------------------------------------------
The SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
We are quickly approaching the end of November and the official end of the
List Fund Raiser. If you look forward to checking your List email everyday
(and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably
getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each
year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some lame magazine or
even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to
you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that same amount and get a
well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to
think of it, you do... :-)
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support
YOUR Lists.
Contribution Page:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution
thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made
possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Fund Raiser Free Gift Shipping Status... |
Dear Listers,
A couple of people have written asking what the shipping status was of
their free List Contribution Gifts. Seemed like some status was in order
and I thought I detail where we're at...
Flight Bag Requests
-------------------
On 11/20/02 I shipped out the first batch of Flight Bag-Only (FBO) gift
requests. I shipped all FBO gift requests I had received from 11/1 to
11/19 except for 3 (Sorry guys!) - I ran out of my first shipment flight
bags! Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com
) is supplying me with another batch flight bags which should arrive in
about 2 weeks.
By the way, these are REALLY nice Flight Bags. Extremely well built and
very professional looking. Folds down into a very small size, but will
hold a huge amount of stuff. If you fly, and you've got a lot of stuff,
they you WANT one of these guys. Surf over to the List Contribution page
for details on how to get one of your own!!!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
The Flight Bags have been shipped out US Mail Parcel Post in a large, and I
mean LARGE, padded white plastic envelope. According to the Post Office,
worse case delivery time would be 8 days to destinations on the East Coast,
but indicated it would likely take a lot less time.
Archive CDROM Requests
----------------------
The Archive CDROMs will be mastered and burned on or about December 1 and
should ship out shortly there after. Shipping will be US Mail, Media Rate
in a big padded white envelope. The Archive List data included will be up
to November 30th.
Flight Bag and Archive CDROM Requests
-------------------------------------
These combination orders will ship out when the Archive CDROMs are complete
as described above, likely a little after December 1. The Flight Bag and
the CDROM will be shipped together in the same Giant white padded envelope!
Again, I want to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore for providing
these awesome Flight Bags to support the List Fund Raiser. Andy has gone
way beyond the call of duty with regard to his support of the Lists this
year and to show your gratitude I would ask that you have a look at his web
site and great media offerings. You'll find some excellent deals on some
very useful material. http://www.buildersbooks.com
And finally, I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a
Contribution so far this year! Your generosity and kindness is greatly
appreciated. If you've been putting off making a Contribution, now's a
great time show your appreciation in plenty of time to make it onto this
year's List of Contributors AND get your free gift with qualifying
Contribution!!!
List Contribution Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution/
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | All New List FAQs! |
Dear Listers,
I got to looking at the Email List FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) today
and realized that they where miserably out of date. I spent a wad of time
today completely revising them and adding in documentation on all of the
many new features such as the List Browse and Photoshare. Many of the
little-known features are documented in there now, too, so even if you're a
seasoned List veteran, you might want to give it a read. Never know what
you might discover.
At the bottom of this message in the Trailer you will find a new link item
called "List FAQ" with a URL for this specific List. Just click on it and
print it out or read it online.
Don't forget that November is the List Fund Raiser month! The "2002 List
of Contributors" is just days away and I know you'll want to make sure your
name is on it!! Please make your Contribution today to support the
continued operation of these List Services!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
There are only a few days left until the November List of Contributors. I
thought I'd take another opportunity to pass along some of the really nice
things people have been saying recently about the Lists and how much they
mean to them.
If you receive value from the Lists in the form of ideas, assistance,
comradery, moral support, inspiration, or just plain 'ol good
entertainment, then won't take a moment to make a Contribution to support
the continued operation and upgrade of them?
Secure List Contribution Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
What does the List mean to you? Here's what some of your fellow
contributing List members have said...
------------------------- What Listers Are Saying -------------------------
Great service for aviation types like me.
Larry H
Best investment I've made.
Harley B
I've been on this list since around 1996 and used it to
help me finish my RV-6A three years ago. I'm still here
because I still learn from it and use it to help others
like me who may be where nobody else is building a RV.
Thanks for your service to our community. It's appreciated.
Jim S
[List] people are a great break away from politics, religion
and other sordid subjects.
Robert B
This site is a great confidence builder for the amateur builder.
Gene L
Great service!
Barry P
Very handy list to have, a good place for a beginner to
get great answers from those who already experienced it.
...sure enjoy reading it.
Joel R
...valuable service!
Chris & Indira K
This is the better than any morning paper - the best and
most frequent service that I use on the Internet. Great
job! This will make building the RV doable for me.
Pete E
I enjoy all of the ideas, suggestions and humor that comes
with this list. I don't think I could build my RV4 with
out everyone's help.
Ross S
GRRRRRRRRRRRREAT!
James W
The list is a great source of information, motivation,
entertainment, passionate debate, and light-hearted back
slapping. I wouldn't be without it.
Roger H
...would still be looking for plans to hook-up s-tec auto
pilot without your service!
David S
The new [digest] format is good.
Graham S
Great information you can't get anywhere else. Lots of nice
people who have "Been there...done that."
George D
My normal morning routine:
1 Kiss "the princess"
2 Good cup of coffee
3 Log onto "List"
A wonderful means of exchanging ideas, asking questions,
gathering information, and sharing experiences.
Robert G
Great lists. Not only are the lists professionally and efficiently
managed, but the *people* on the lists are very helpful, friendly
and fun to chat with. Thank you for this wonderful resource.
Ihab A
Thanks a million, well maybe not a million!!! (:
Ken H
I need this fix every morning or I get grumpy...
Wayne P
Very useful lists
Paul E
This communication medium that you created, nurtured and
continue to maintain is the best thing since AN rivets!
Jim J
The information I gleaned off the list has always been
helpful.
Kenneth B
I've been a subscriber to varied lists for several years
now. The knowledge provided has been extremely useful
throughout.
David P
Enjoy everyone's input even though I am not a
builder...just a flyer.
Douglas P
Just laughin' and a scratchin'
Dennis N
It is a real asset and good for comic relief.
Ross S
I can't build my plane without your service!
Kent H
Great info on the lists!
Wesley H
I'm very new to the List but have already benefited
greatly.
Jim S
The "List" has been my best source for information
concerning my aviation projects. Besides, it also
brings a bunch of people together to share their
interests and knowledge. Thanks for providing a
state of the art, easy to use resource tool.
David A
I have saved a lot of grief and dollars from referencing
this site. It is truly an extension of Van's product
support.
Joseph C
Terrific asset this List is to the builder!
Scott J
Great service!
Tony B
Look forward to the list each and every day.
John B
I could not cope up here in this lonely island without
the help of the List and all the wonderful helpful
people that have the experience of aircraft building
and flying for fun.
Johann J
This list is part of my daily routine. I'm addicted.
Terry D
Great forum!
John H
This list is my main interest in the Internet.
George R
Great list. The best out there on any subject.
Kevin H
Been on the list since 1998 and I still look forward to
reading the list every day. A most valuable tool. I have
picked up many useful tips during the construction of
my RV-4.
Jerry I
Thanks for all of your hard work on the lists. It is
one of the reasons I bought a CJ-6A. Without the
Yak-list, I believe it would have been much more
difficult to get all the information that I need
for safe operation and maintenance of this fine
aircraft.
David L
The List has been an amazing source of useful
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Gunter M
An excellent channel of information. I have gained a
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Enjoy the wealth of information that is shared.
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Fine service.
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[The] List is the first stop of the day. Made lot of
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Over the 3+ years that I have been building, I check it
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Not only is it worth a contribution for the info gleaned
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This is great stuff!!! Entertaining, too!! Fast answers
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This list has saved me countless hours of work and worry
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Outstanding List, exceptionally maintained.
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Thanks for all the improvements you've made this year. The
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I finished my RV6A this year. It is a much better airplane
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Lists.
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Can't imagine building without the list.
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The list continues to be a great resource of information
and advice.
Jeff O
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New Gift Selection Added - List Fund Raiser! [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
I've just added a great new last minute Gift Selection to this year's List
Fund Raiser line up! I have a very limited number of sets of a wonderful
collection of Aircraft Technical books by Jeppesen entitled "The A&P
Technical Series Book Set". This is a great opportunity to make a generous
Contribution to support the Lists and walk away with a great set of
reference manuals at the same time.
This set of books normally retails for over $117 PLUS shipping, but you can
pick up your set AND make this year's List Contribution for a cool C-note -
that's a $100, by the way! :-) I'm thinking "Great Christmas Gift"...
There's more information on the books and making your Contribution at the
List Contribution web site:
Email List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
We're coming close to the official end of this year's List Fund Raiser and
if you haven't yet made your Contribution, there's still time get your name
on that List of Contributors! The percentage of contributors is kind of
low this year but I'm hoping many of you are just holding out until the
last minute!
I want to thank each and everyone of you that has already made a donation
to support the continued operation and upgrade of these List Services. As
I've mentioned in the past, running these Lists is a labor of love for me
and the hours upon hours of code development, system maintenance, and
upgrades are MY Contribution to support this great resource for Builders
and Flyer's alike. Won't your take a minute and make YOUR Contribution today?
I want to thank you for your support both during the Fund Raiser but also
throughout the year in the form of kind words and moral support. A nice
comment from a List member about how much the lists have helped them is
always a sure way to brighten my day!
Thank you to all!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ!] "What is my Contribution used for?" |
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What is my Contribution used for?", and this is a valid
question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support
enables. It provides for the expensive, business-class, high-speed
Internet connection used on the List, insuring maximum performance and
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Browser. It pays for 14+ years worth of online archive data available for
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developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List
Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, and Photoshare.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and
your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from
moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer
viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements
about these days? I will venture to say - next to none...
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many desirable aspects
of this most valuable List service. Please support it today with your List
Contribution. Its the best investment you can make in your Sport - BAR NONE!
Email List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
This is the last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser. Based on previous
year's percentages of Lister's making a Contribution, this year we are
nearly 40% behind the normal... And I thought all those great gifts would
eke the percentage up past the average a little. Oh well. Maybe people
just don't really mind the flashing banner ads for Viagra, and popups for
X10 minicams...
There's still plenty of time to get your name of the List of
Contributors. I'll probably publish the LOC on Monday night after I
process the checks from the Post Office.
I do want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so
far this year. Your support is greatly appreciated and is what makes the
Lists possible.
How to support your Lists this month: http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | All New List Digest Format!! |
Dear Listers,
I've just finished up some awesome code that will completely change your
thinking about how email Digests should work and look! Yeah, I'm kind of
proud of it, that is true... :-)
What you'll be getting in the new List Digest message is the
following: The main message will contain the new text-based index I
introduced a few weeks back. But here's where things get
different... Instead of simply including all of the day's posts in line
within the message, there will now be included two enclosures - one with a
HTML encoded version of the Digests, and another with the usual text-only
version of the Digests.
I think you're really going to like the new HTML enclosure of the
Digests. All of the Indexes at the top are now hyperlinked to the actual
posts and there are hyperlinks at the top of each post that will:
o Take you back to the Index
o Take you to the next post
o Take you to the previous post
o Allow you to respond to the LIST regarding the message
o Allow you to respond directly to the POSTER regarding the message
You'll have to check it out to appreciate the full goodness of the new
format! :-)
The text-only version is basically exactly the same data that has been
normally sent in line within the message.
You'll also note that the filenames of the enclosures are such that they
can be conveniently placed in a personal "archive" directory for future
reference.
Hope you enjoy the new Digest format!!!
Oh, and don't forget about the Fund Raiser! :-)
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New, NEW List Digest Format... |
Dear Listers,
Okay, so I woke up this morning to an email box full of hate-mail about the
new List Digest format. I thought it was cool, but I guess not... Still,
it seemed like too much code to just throw out, so I've modified things a
little and I'm hoping everyone will be happy with the new, NEW
arrangement. Here's how it works now:
o The HTML and TXT enclosures aren't sent in the Digest any longer.
o URL Links to the HTML and TEXT versions of the day's Digests
will be found at the top of the digest email.
o The new Digest Index will be found at the top of the digest email
following the URL Links.
o The full digest text will then be found in the email as before.
o All of the previous Digests will now be available on line. The
URL for the main digest page is:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
From here, you can drill into the specific List Digest of interest.
o Both the HTML and TXT versions of the Digests can be found here.
o The List Message Trailer will contain a Link directly to the given
o Right now there's only one Digest shown, but each day there will
be another. They will be sorted with the newest at the top.
Left-hand column is the HTML version, right-hand column the TXT
version.
A couple people also complained that some messages in the HTML version were
just one long line that went off to the right forever and they hated
that. Come to think of it, this is also an issue in the Search Engine,
List Browser, and Archive Browser. Some email programs don't included hard
Returns at regular intervals and that's what causes this. I wrote a
program tonight that will automatically chop these long lines into 78
characters or less and wrap the rest of the line. After tonight's Archive
transfer, all of the Searching and Browsing tools shouldn't have the
problem any longer either. Woo hoo!
So, back to the new Digest format. What people are going to see in the
new, NEW Digest is a bit of verbiage at the top of the email describing the
URL links to the HTML and TXT on-line versions, followed by the Links,
followed by the day's Index, followed by the day's messages just as
before. Lines longer than 78 characters will also be automatically wrapped
onto the next line.
Hopefully this will be a more pleasing arrangement for everyone. Sorry to
get everybody so stirred up over the format change!
The List of Contributors is coming out tomorrow night... Still time to
make that Contribution! http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Manapat" <yakdriver(at)columnist.com> |
| Subject: | aerobatics in cessna 172 |
i was watching espn2 and they had aerobatic performers flying planes. i just got
my pvt in january this year and would like to know a few things.
how hard do you pull on the controls to perform a loop? I have been renting a
172 and with a firm pull i was able to get the plane to go 90 upward, but it shook
a bit and i was afraid to try to get it to finish the loop because it slowed
down so much.
Also, how much altitude do you lose in one complete roll of the the plane.
I started at 4.5 AGL and finished at about 2.0 AGL and the plane picked up
a lot of speed (175 kts). i don't remember seeing the planes on espn2 lose that
much altitude.
Thanks for any help,
TONY
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: aerobatics in cessna 172 |
Are you trying for suicide by airplane, or maybe you'd like to win a Darwin
award? Looping or rolling a C-172 is possible, but NOT RECOMMENDED. If you
saw 175 knots or lost 2500 ft trying a roll, you were damned close to
killing yourself.
If you want to do aerobatics, get training and only do acro in the
appropriate equipment.
Not only are you risking your life, but imagine the lawsuit when the C-172
comes apart. Every relative or dependant you've ever had will come out of
the woodwork and sue the FBO or whoever owned the C-172, regardless of what
the accident report shows. Does the airplane owner deserve this?
Also, if you did hit 175 knots in the C-172, it needs to be inspected for
structural damage. You may have already damaged it sufficiently that it
shouldn't fly again. Tell the FBO. Do you want to be responsible for
someone else getting killed in it?
I hope this is a troll.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Manapat" <yakdriver(at)columnist.com>
Subject: Aerobatic-List: aerobatics in cessna 172
>
> i was watching espn2 and they had aerobatic performers flying planes. i
just got my pvt in january this year and would like to know a few things.
>
> how hard do you pull on the controls to perform a loop? I have been
renting a 172 and with a firm pull i was able to get the plane to go 90
upward, but it shook a bit and i was afraid to try to get it to finish the
loop because it slowed down so much.
>
> Also, how much altitude do you lose in one complete roll of the the plane.
I started at 4.5 AGL and finished at about 2.0 AGL and the plane picked up a
lot of speed (175 kts). i don't remember seeing the planes on espn2 lose
that much altitude.
>
> Thanks for any help,
> TONY
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "matsuhisa bigdong" <matsuhisa(at)japan.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aerobatics in cessna 172 |
Kyle:
Look, I am NOT STUPID. I LOOKED at the plane after I tied it down and returned
it to the fbo. It is a pretty new plane (4-5 years old) and I am smart enough
to look for cracks or things that aren't right!
What score did you get on your written? Are you an aerobatic pilot, too?
-Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:43:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: aerobatics in cessna 172
Are you trying for suicide by airplane, or maybe you'd like to win a Darwin
award? Looping or rolling a C-172 is possible, but NOT RECOMMENDED. If you
saw 175 knots or lost 2500 ft trying a roll, you were damned close to
killing yourself.
If you want to do aerobatics, get training and only do acro in the
appropriate equipment.
Not only are you risking your life, but imagine the lawsuit when the C-172
comes apart. Every relative or dependant you've ever had will come out of
the woodwork and sue the FBO or whoever owned the C-172, regardless of what
the accident report shows. Does the airplane owner deserve this?
Also, if you did hit 175 knots in the C-172, it needs to be inspected for
structural damage. You may have already damaged it sufficiently that it
shouldn't fly again. Tell the FBO. Do you want to be responsible for
someone else getting killed in it?
I hope this is a troll.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Manapat" <yakdriver(at)columnist.com>
Subject: Aerobatic-List: aerobatics in cessna 172
>
> i was watching espn2 and they had aerobatic performers flying planes. i
just got my pvt in january this year and would like to know a few things.
>
> how hard do you pull on the controls to perform a loop? I have been
renting a 172 and with a firm pull i was able to get the plane to go 90
upward, but it shook a bit and i was afraid to try to get it to finish the
loop because it slowed down so much.
>
> Also, how much altitude do you lose in one complete roll of the the plane.
I started at 4.5 AGL and finished at about 2.0 AGL and the plane picked up a
lot of speed (175 kts). i don't remember seeing the planes on espn2 lose
that much altitude.
>
> Thanks for any help,
> TONY
>
> --
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: aerobatics in cessna 172 |
| From: | Jack <baron58(at)earthlink.net> |
on 2003/02/15 17:56, matsuhisa bigdong at matsuhisa(at)japan.com wrote:
> Look, I am NOT STUPID.
Yes you are, and a troll to boot.
> I LOOKED at the plane after I tied it down and returned
> it to the fbo. It is a pretty new plane (4-5 years old) and I am smart enough
> to look for cracks or things that aren't right!
No, you are not. You might look, but you will not find.
> What score did you get on your written?
I passed them all. When will you take your first?
> Are you an aerobatic pilot, too?
Yes.
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <lneal(at)ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: aerobatics in cessna 172 |
I count two different addresses so far.
Definite TROLL as well as an email hack, watch out....
Jack wrote:
>
>on 2003/02/15 17:56, matsuhisa bigdong at matsuhisa(at)japan.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>Look, I am NOT STUPID.
>>
>>
>
>Yes you are, and a troll to boot.
>
>
>
>
>>I LOOKED at the plane after I tied it down and returned
>>it to the fbo. It is a pretty new plane (4-5 years old) and I am smart enough
>>to look for cracks or things that aren't right!
>>
>>
>
>No, you are not. You might look, but you will not find.
>
>
>
>
>>What score did you get on your written?
>>
>>
>
>I passed them all. When will you take your first?
>
>
>
>
>>Are you an aerobatic pilot, too?
>>
>>
>
>Yes.
>
>
>Jack
>
>
>.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aerobatics in cessna 172 |
A 172 can do a loop with little problems just be sure to be really easy on
it when you come out and give yoruself plenty of altitude. Would I ever try
it NO. I would spin a 172 because it is indeed rated to do spins with 1/2
fuel and 2 people or less aboard. A roll loosing that mcuh altitude,
something isnt right with your flying skills. Why do you want to do a loop
in a 172, just do some steep wingovers or something. A hammerhead is still
getting on the pushy side for a 172 but im sure it would do those, I still
wouldnt try it.
Justin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Neal" <lneal(at)ev1.net>
Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: aerobatics in cessna 172
>
> I count two different addresses so far.
> Definite TROLL as well as an email hack, watch out....
>
> Jack wrote:
>
> >
> >on 2003/02/15 17:56, matsuhisa bigdong at matsuhisa(at)japan.com wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Look, I am NOT STUPID.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Yes you are, and a troll to boot.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>I LOOKED at the plane after I tied it down and returned
> >>it to the fbo. It is a pretty new plane (4-5 years old) and I am smart
enough
> >>to look for cracks or things that aren't right!
> >>
> >>
> >
> >No, you are not. You might look, but you will not find.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>What score did you get on your written?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I passed them all. When will you take your first?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Are you an aerobatic pilot, too?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Yes.
> >
> >
> >Jack
> >
> >
> >.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | aerobatics in cessna 172 |
Tony:
Are you NUTS!\
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony
Manapat
Subject: Aerobatic-List: aerobatics in cessna 172
i was watching espn2 and they had aerobatic performers flying planes. i
just got my pvt in january this year and would like to know a few
things.
how hard do you pull on the controls to perform a loop? I have been
renting a 172 and with a firm pull i was able to get the plane to go 90
upward, but it shook a bit and i was afraid to try to get it to finish
the loop because it slowed down so much.
Also, how much altitude do you lose in one complete roll of the the
plane. I started at 4.5 AGL and finished at about 2.0 AGL and the
plane picked up a lot of speed (175 kts). i don't remember seeing the
planes on espn2 lose that much altitude.
Thanks for any help,
TONY
--
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: aerobatics in cessna 172 |
Don't feed the troll, and for heavens sake, don't do aerobatics in airplanes
that are not designed for them. Especially airplanes that someone else will
eventually fly. It is bad enough if you kill yourself. Worse if you damage
an aircraft and someone else dies at a later date because of the damage.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: aerobatics in cessna 172
>
> A 172 can do a loop with little problems just be sure to be really easy on
> it when you come out and give yoruself plenty of altitude. Would I ever
try
> it NO. I would spin a 172 because it is indeed rated to do spins with 1/2
> fuel and 2 people or less aboard. A roll loosing that mcuh altitude,
> something isnt right with your flying skills. Why do you want to do a loop
> in a 172, just do some steep wingovers or something. A hammerhead is still
> getting on the pushy side for a 172 but im sure it would do those, I still
> wouldnt try it.
>
> Justin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Neal" <lneal(at)ev1.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: aerobatics in cessna 172
>
>
> >
> > I count two different addresses so far.
> > Definite TROLL as well as an email hack, watch out....
> >
> > Jack wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >on 2003/02/15 17:56, matsuhisa bigdong at matsuhisa(at)japan.com wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>Look, I am NOT STUPID.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >Yes you are, and a troll to boot.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>I LOOKED at the plane after I tied it down and returned
> > >>it to the fbo. It is a pretty new plane (4-5 years old) and I am smart
> enough
> > >>to look for cracks or things that aren't right!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >No, you are not. You might look, but you will not find.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>What score did you get on your written?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >I passed them all. When will you take your first?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>Are you an aerobatic pilot, too?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >Yes.
> > >
> > >
> > >Jack
> > >
> > >
> > >.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com> |
How do you people feel about an alieron roll in a Cessna 150? I know it is fully
able to do a roll. I dont know what the utilty catagory allows but if im not
mistaking it allows spins in it. I know for a fact 150's dont have a problem
spinning but not with flaps, why you woudl spin an airplane with the flaps down
I dont know.
Justin
JUST A THOUGHT GUYS!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Guy <jguysr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: aerobatics in cessna 172 |
Here's the clue. yakdriver(at)columnist.com. Obvious troll.
Tony Manapat wrote:
>
>i was watching espn2 and they had aerobatic performers flying planes. i just got
my pvt in january this year and would like to know a few things.
>
>how hard do you pull on the controls to perform a loop? I have been renting a
172 and with a firm pull i was able to get the plane to go 90 upward, but it
shook a bit and i was afraid to try to get it to finish the loop because it slowed
down so much.
>
>Also, how much altitude do you lose in one complete roll of the the plane.
I started at 4.5 AGL and finished at about 2.0 AGL and the plane picked up
a lot of speed (175 kts). i don't remember seeing the planes on espn2 lose that
much altitude.
>
>Thanks for any help,
>TONY
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: aerobatics in cessna 172 |
Since you already know so much why are you asking?
Look at the FARs, they require several things for an acrobatic airplane
beyond just being able to do the maneuver. Take a look at a Cessna 150
aerobat. It has 180 sized struts. It has a removable door in case you need
to use the required parachute.
Incidentally, There are entry speed published to loop an approved airplane
and if you fly a roll correctly, there is NO altitude loss. My
recommendation if you want to do acrobatics, get some instruction in an
approved airplane other wise you are liable to wind up as a young bold
pilot.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Manapat" <yakdriver(at)columnist.com>
Subject: Aerobatic-List: aerobatics in cessna 172
>
> i was watching espn2 and they had aerobatic performers flying planes. i
just got my pvt in january this year and would like to know a few things.
>
> how hard do you pull on the controls to perform a loop? I have been
renting a 172 and with a firm pull i was able to get the plane to go 90
upward, but it shook a bit and i was afraid to try to get it to finish the
loop because it slowed down so much.
>
> Also, how much altitude do you lose in one complete roll of the the plane.
I started at 4.5 AGL and finished at about 2.0 AGL and the plane picked up a
lot of speed (175 kts). i don't remember seeing the planes on espn2 lose
that much altitude.
>
> Thanks for any help,
> TONY
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aerobatics in cessna 172 |
Kyle,
You beat me to the punch. This is definitely an ARCHIVE
item!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Kyle Boatright <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: aerobatics in cessna 172
>
> Are you trying for suicide by airplane, or maybe you'd like to win a
Darwin
> award? Looping or rolling a C-172 is possible, but NOT RECOMMENDED. If
you
> saw 175 knots or lost 2500 ft trying a roll, you were damned close to
> killing yourself.
>
> If you want to do aerobatics, get training and only do acro in the
> appropriate equipment.
>
> Not only are you risking your life, but imagine the lawsuit when the C-172
> comes apart. Every relative or dependant you've ever had will come out of
> the woodwork and sue the FBO or whoever owned the C-172, regardless of
what
> the accident report shows. Does the airplane owner deserve this?
>
> Also, if you did hit 175 knots in the C-172, it needs to be inspected for
> structural damage. You may have already damaged it sufficiently that it
> shouldn't fly again. Tell the FBO. Do you want to be responsible for
> someone else getting killed in it?
>
> I hope this is a troll.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tony Manapat" <yakdriver(at)columnist.com>
> To:
> Subject: Aerobatic-List: aerobatics in cessna 172
>
>
>
> >
> > i was watching espn2 and they had aerobatic performers flying planes. i
> just got my pvt in january this year and would like to know a few things.
> >
> > how hard do you pull on the controls to perform a loop? I have been
> renting a 172 and with a firm pull i was able to get the plane to go 90
> upward, but it shook a bit and i was afraid to try to get it to finish the
> loop because it slowed down so much.
> >
> > Also, how much altitude do you lose in one complete roll of the the
plane.
> I started at 4.5 AGL and finished at about 2.0 AGL and the plane picked up
a
> lot of speed (175 kts). i don't remember seeing the planes on espn2 lose
> that much altitude.
> >
> > Thanks for any help,
> > TONY
> >
> > --
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "matsuhisa bigdong" <matsuhisa(at)japan.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Roll in a 150 |
Justin: Personally, I feel that a roll in a 150 is for broads/bitches/women/females.....Hell,
Snap roll that fuckin 150. Outside shap it. Lomcevak it. Fuckin
hang that bad boy on the prop with a torque roll. Shit, you are paying to
rent the fucker, make her perform for you.... That, by the way, is the same
philosophy I have for my hookers..............I am paying, They had better perform.
Recently paroled,
Matsuhisa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin" <jmw116(at)socal.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:37:28 -0600
Subject: Aerobatic-List: Roll in a 150
How do you people feel about an alieron roll in a Cessna 150? I know it is fully
able to do a roll. I dont know what the utilty catagory allows but if im not
mistaking it allows spins in it. I know for a fact 150's dont have a problem
spinning but not with flaps, why you woudl spin an airplane with the flaps down
I dont know.
Justin
JUST A THOUGHT GUYS!
--
________________________________________________________________________________
warbird-list(at)matronics.com, cessna-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | My Apologies for Recent List Mis-Use... |
Dear Listers,
My apologies for the mis-use and abusive language by a recent subscriber to
the Lists. I have again blocked this fellow from posting, but I'm sure
he'll try subscribing again as some other address. I will try to stay on
top of the List traffic and block at the first sign of mis-use. Feel free
to email me directly at support(at)matronics.com if you see further incidents.
Here's our best defense against this fellow:
DO NOT RESPOND TO ANYTHING HE POSTS.
I will continue to try to filter as quickly as possible. Please remember,
as the List Administrator, I am asking everyone on the Lists to NOT respond
to this fellow under any circumstances.
I have unsubscribed his current two email addresses, and blocked any posts
with these email addresses included.
Again, my apologies.
Matt Dralle
List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
There's three sides to every story, babe. There's your's;
there's mine; and there's the cold, hard truth...
Don Henley
Long Way Home, 1982
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 7-Day Matronics List Browse Enhancement... |
Dear Listers,
Neil Hulin of the Zenith-List at Matronics wrote to me suggesting I add a
"total of available messages" column to the 7-Day List Browse Main page,
and it seemed like a great idea! I've made the modifications and I think
many will find it extremely helpful as well. Have a look at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse/
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin...
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics ISP Upgrade TODAY... |
Dear Listers,
The time has finally arrived for the Internet Service Provider (ISP)
upgrade! You'll recall that I was looking into upgrading the existing SDSL
connection from 768k to 1.1M. As it turned out, the copper line wouldn't
support any speeds greater than the current 768k. In light of that news, I
just bit-the-bullet and ordered a full, commercial-grade T1
connection. The T1 connection will provide a full-duplex, high priority,
1.5Mb Internet connection which should be a substantial performance
enhancement for all of the List services!
Pacbell delivered the T1 Loop last week and it tested out fine. This past
weekend I pulled the tail circuit from the demark to the office. This
afternoon, Tuesday 4/1/03, the ISP is suppose come and install the new
router and bring up routing on a test subnet. Assuming that everything
checks out okay with the T1, new router, and routing, I will have them
swing the main Matronics subnet off the SDSL and onto the T1. In theory,
the swing could be nearly transparent to users, but that's usually not the
case... ;-)
Please expect a bit of instability in connectivity this afternoon as we
work though the transition issues. I will post a follow up message when
everything is up and running on the new T1 line.
Finally, please know that it is solely your Contributions that make these
kinds of List upgrades happen! There is no advertising budget (aka,
flashing banner ads and annoying pop up browser windows) to pay these
bills; operational support is solely from List members like you during the
yearly List Fund Raiser. If you would like to make your Contribution to
support the Lists and upgrades like this T1 connectivity enhancement,
please see the List Contribution Web Site where you can make your
Contribution with a Credit Card, PayPal, or Personal Check. You can even
get a free List Archive CDROM with a qualifying List Contribution! The URL
is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thanks again to EVERYONE that made a generous Contribution last year and
enabled this awesome upgrade to T1 service!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics ISP Upgrade COMPLETED! |
Dear Listers,
I just wanted to send out a quick note to let everyone know that the 1.5Mb
T1 connection upgrade went smoothly today. They brought up the new line
and router yesterday on a test subnet and today the ISP switched over
connectivity about 12 noon with little to no incident. I just finished
some performance testing, and it appears that actual throughput and
interactive response is noticeably improved as advertised!
Enjoy!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
Please see the attached zip file for details.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | FARs, Air Demonstations, etc. |
I live near the Canada/U.S. border. A relative on the U.S. side has a house on
the shore near a practice area I use for formation training. I'd like to swing
by his house in formation some time, but I'm unsure about the relevant U.S.
regulations.
My reading of FAR Part 91 indicates that I can perform non-aerbatic formation
flight over water at a minimum altitude of 500 feet and a minimum of 500 feet
from shore. This is less than the Canadian regulations (CARs) require, by my
reading. (In Canada it would be 500 ASL and 2,000 feet from shore.) Since
Canadian and U.S. regs are usually comparable on these matters, I suspect I may
have missed something in the FARs. Can any U.S. pilots advise me?
(This is Class G airspace.)
Tedd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
Aerobatic List
I'm thinking of approaching Matt about a formation list. Let me know if you'd
be interested in joining it.
Yes, I know there's a Yahoo formation group, but I'm not a yahoo.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Poul-Erik Binderup <pebinderup(at)scotiaflight.ns.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: FARs, Air Demonstations, etc. |
Tedd,
I am not sure about the U.S. Regs, but I think you will find that the CARS
reference to 2000' is if you are over a "built up area or open-air assembly of
persons". As long as you are not over these your minimum altitude is 500'. In fact
you can fly as low as you want as long as you are "at a ditance of not less than
500' from any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure." Of course flying the treetops
or low over water has serious risks as I am sure you are well aware. You can find
these references in your AIP (RAC 5.4) and in the CARS 605.14. I hope this helps
a
bit.
Poul-Erik Binderup
Tedd McHenry wrote:
>
> I live near the Canada/U.S. border. A relative on the U.S. side has a house
on
> the shore near a practice area I use for formation training. I'd like to swing
> by his house in formation some time, but I'm unsure about the relevant U.S.
> regulations.
>
> My reading of FAR Part 91 indicates that I can perform non-aerbatic formation
> flight over water at a minimum altitude of 500 feet and a minimum of 500 feet
> from shore. This is less than the Canadian regulations (CARs) require, by my
> reading. (In Canada it would be 500 ASL and 2,000 feet from shore.) Since
> Canadian and U.S. regs are usually comparable on these matters, I suspect I may
> have missed something in the FARs. Can any U.S. pilots advise me?
>
> (This is Class G airspace.)
>
> Tedd
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | New SPAM and Virus Filtering Appliance At Matronics... |
Dear Listers,
I will be installing a new SPAM and virus blocking appliance this
evening or tomorrow. The installation will involve some changes
in the Matronics DNS MX records, and will impact how incoming
email is handled. While I expect these changes to be transparent
to all of the List subscribers, things might go differently... ;-)
The Lists get bombarded with tons of SPAM messages and viruses
each day and fortunately my custom filters have been extremely
effective at filtering most of this from redistribution. Its
time to move to the next level of technology, however, and this
SPAM and Virus filtering appliance seems like an excellent
solution.
I will post a follow up message later in the week when things
have stabilized and I have some filter statistics to share.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com> |
| Subject: | LITHIUM vs DIELECTRIC grease |
Hello,
I checked the archives and couldn't find any info on the following:
The Rotax 912 service manual talks about making good electrical connections on
its electronic module and to avoid leakage currents by using LITHIUM grease on
all connetions.
I can find DIELECTRIC grease at the automotive store sold for about the same purpose..but
not LITHIUM grease.
Are these two greases the same thing or related? Looking at the internet I see
that lithium grease has a lot of flavors and uses beyond electrical connections...
Are both of these greases good conductors, esp at very low voltages??
Thanks for any info on this confusion.
Jon
CH 701 ready for inspection
Firestar II
www.joncroke.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lincoln Schlecht" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | LITHIUM vs DIELECTRIC grease |
Jon,
I would recommend the dielectric over the lithium. Stay with a good brand
like Permatex, or get some from your local Ford or GM dealer. The
microprocessors in modern automobiles often sense millivolts and milliamps,
so whatever you get at the car dealership will be high quality stuff, and
heat resistant as well.
Good luck,
Lincoln Schlecht
Tech coun #4434
== == === == == == == == == == == == == == == ===
Subject: Aerobatic-List: LITHIUM vs DIELECTRIC grease
Aerobatic-List message posted by: "Jon Croke"
The Rotax 912 service manual talks about making good electrical connections
on its electronic module and to avoid leakage currents by using LITHIUM
grease on all connetions.
.....good conductors, esp at very low voltages??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Jurotich <mjurotich(at)hst.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/19/03 |
I thought dielectric meant non conducting.
Matt
>*
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
>Today's complete Aerobatic-List Digest can be also be found in either
>of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
>formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
>Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
>version of the Aerobatic-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
>text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
>HTML Version:
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/digest/aerobatic-list/Digest.Aerobatic-List.2003-09-19.html
>
>Text Version:
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/digest/aerobatic-list/Digest.Aerobatic-List.2003-09-19.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Aerobatic-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 09/19/03: 2
>
>
>Today's Message Index:
>----------------------
>
> 1. 09:19 AM - LITHIUM vs DIELECTRIC grease (Jon Croke)
> 2. 02:56 PM - LITHIUM vs DIELECTRIC grease (Lincoln Schlecht)
>
>
>________________________________ Message
>1 _____________________________________
>
>
>From: "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com>
>Subject: Aerobatic-List: LITHIUM vs DIELECTRIC grease
>
>
>Hello,
>
>I checked the archives and couldn't find any info on the following:
>
>The Rotax 912 service manual talks about making good electrical connections on
>its electronic module and to avoid leakage currents by using LITHIUM grease on
>all connetions.
>
>I can find DIELECTRIC grease at the automotive store sold for about the
>same purpose..but
>not LITHIUM grease.
>
>Are these two greases the same thing or related? Looking at the internet
>I see
>that lithium grease has a lot of flavors and uses beyond electrical
>connections...
>Are both of these greases good conductors, esp at very low voltages??
>
>Thanks for any info on this confusion.
>
>Jon
>CH 701 ready for inspection
>Firestar II
>
>www.joncroke.com
>
>
>________________________________ Message
>2 _____________________________________
>
>
>From: "Lincoln Schlecht" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
>Subject: Aerobatic-List: LITHIUM vs DIELECTRIC grease
>
>
>
>Jon,
>
>I would recommend the dielectric over the lithium. Stay with a good brand
>like Permatex, or get some from your local Ford or GM dealer. The
>microprocessors in modern automobiles often sense millivolts and milliamps,
>so whatever you get at the car dealership will be high quality stuff, and
>heat resistant as well.
>Good luck,
>Lincoln Schlecht
>Tech coun #4434
>== == === == == == == == == == == == == == == ===
>Subject: Aerobatic-List: LITHIUM vs DIELECTRIC grease
>Aerobatic-List message posted by: "Jon Croke"
> The Rotax 912 service manual talks about making good electrical connections
>on its electronic module and to avoid leakage currents by using LITHIUM
>grease on all connetions.
>.....good conductors, esp at very low voltages??
>
>
Matthew M. Jurotich
NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Swales contractor to the
JWST ISIM Systems Engineer
m/c : 443
e-mail mail to:
phone : 301-286-5919
fax : 301-286-1736
JWST URL: <http://ngst1.gsfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com> |
| Subject: | Dielectric grease |
> I thought dielectric meant non conducting.
>
> Matt
I found this tidbit on a newsgroup:
Silicone Dielectric Grease (DG) is an insulator and is non-conductive. It
keeps moisture out of connections when used on both spark plugs and regular
low voltage connections. When you use DG in a connection and slide or bolt
the connectors together you make a metal to metal contact that carries the
current. The DG seals out air and moisture at these contact points which
prevents corrosion. I use DG even on wires b4 I crimp them into connectors.
I have not had a connector/connection failure in over 20 years using this
method.
-Eric, Torque1st, [link:www.ford-trucks.com/guidelines.html|FTE Moderator]
Jon
satisfied that I want to use dielectric grease, not lithium
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] SPAM Filter Could Be Causing Posting Problems |
For Some Members...?
Dear Listers,
Matronics is now utilizing a SPAM filter appliance to filter out the
excessive amounts of inappropriate email that bombards the Email List
Forums each day. The filter is reporting that over 66% of the email
messages sent to Matronics email destinations are of SPAM content and
reviewing the logfiles, it would appear to be true. That is indeed great!
While the Lists are enjoying the breath of fresh air afforded by the new
appliance, I am suspecting that a few legitimate email List posts are being
blocked as too, although I can't confirm this. It is difficult to churn
through the logfiles looking though thousands of blocked email messages
trying to determine if any legitimate List posts were blocked.
If you suspect that your posts are accidently being blocked by the SPAM
filter appliance, I have created a new Trouble Report web page that will
allow you to report your problems directly to me without having to use
email. If the SPAM filter is blocking your email address for some reason,
then its likely that I wouldn't be able to receive your direct email
regarding difficulty in posting. The web form bypasses the incoming email
and directs your message directly to me.
Please include as much information as possible regarding the problems you
are having including any bounced email or email error messages that you may
have received back in regard to your posts to the lists. The more
information I have about the email you are sending and what the errors you
are receiving, the better chance I'll have in hunting down the problem.
The Trouble Report Website URL is:
http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report/
I apologize for any inconvenience the SPAM filter may be causing you. I
will work toward resolving your issues as quickly as possible.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron C" <ronc(at)metropolisdesign.com> |
| Subject: | One Design builders? |
Hi Aerobatic nuts I am a new One Design builder and am looking to hook
up with other OD builders for mutual exchange/support/questions etc. Are
there any OD guys on this list?
Currently I fly a Harmon Rocket II which I completed in '99.
Ron Carter
Metropolis Design
ronc(at)metropolisdesign.com
900 North 400 West, Bldg 13, North Salt Lake, Utah, 84054 - (801)
298-0406
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: One Design builders? |
Ron: I'm not a OD but am starting the look for another project plane--danged
if I don't more enjoyment out of building the dern' things. Col Geoff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron C" <ronc(at)metropolisdesign.com> |
| Subject: | One Design builders? |
Same here. I need a project or I don't have much focus in life. I'm
doing the OD because I have sheet metal exp via the Rocket so the OD
will be new materials and techniques. By the way I have plans for a
plane called a shockwave 200 if you really want to scratch build. It
looks like a laser 200.
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Gkb5577(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: One Design builders?
Ron: I'm not a OD but am starting the look for another project
plane--danged
if I don't more enjoyment out of building the dern' things. Col Geoff
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: One Design builders? |
Hi Ron,
I'm one. I bought my One Design as an almost finished project. I've had
the engine rebuilt by Barrett Performance (200 hp -A1A), I've done all the
systems, panel, cooling plenum, etc. I am just finishing up wiring the
sensors for the Rocky Mtn uMonitor and expect to get it in the air this
weekend.
I thought the RV-6 I built and the 1D were the ideal combination but you
have just bested that. At least I can carry folded up bicycles :)
Rick Caldwell
Melbourne, FL
136RC
137RC
>From: "Ron C" <ronc(at)metropolisdesign.com>
>Reply-To: aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Aerobatic-List: One Design builders?
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:16:03 -0600
>
>
> Hi Aerobatic nuts I am a new One Design builder and am looking to hook
>up with other OD builders for mutual exchange/support/questions etc. Are
>there any OD guys on this list?
>
>Currently I fly a Harmon Rocket II which I completed in '99.
>
>Ron Carter
>Metropolis Design
>ronc(at)metropolisdesign.com
>
>900 North 400 West, Bldg 13, North Salt Lake, Utah, 84054 - (801)
>298-0406
>
>
Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month
(depending on the local service providers in your area).
https://broadband.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron C" <ronc(at)metropolisdesign.com> |
| Subject: | One Design builders? |
Rick-
So do you have a plenum over your engine? If so whose is it? I have
thought about one for a while on the rocket. Also I have 10:1 pistons
and flowed cyls on the Rocket. What does Barrett do to get 200hp from
his 360's? Did you go with a constant speed prop? Did you buy much stuff
from Rourke or other specialty suppliers?
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Caldwell
Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: One Design builders?
-->
Hi Ron,
I'm one. I bought my One Design as an almost finished project. I've
had
the engine rebuilt by Barrett Performance (200 hp -A1A), I've done all
the
systems, panel, cooling plenum, etc. I am just finishing up wiring the
sensors for the Rocky Mtn uMonitor and expect to get it in the air this
weekend.
I thought the RV-6 I built and the 1D were the ideal combination but you
have just bested that. At least I can carry folded up bicycles :)
Rick Caldwell
Melbourne, FL
136RC
137RC
>From: "Ron C" <ronc(at)metropolisdesign.com>
>Reply-To: aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Aerobatic-List: One Design builders?
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:16:03 -0600
>
>-->
>
>
> Hi Aerobatic nuts I am a new One Design builder and am looking to
>hook up with other OD builders for mutual exchange/support/questions
>etc. Are there any OD guys on this list?
>
>Currently I fly a Harmon Rocket II which I completed in '99.
>
>Ron Carter
>Metropolis Design
>ronc(at)metropolisdesign.com
>
>900 North 400 West, Bldg 13, North Salt Lake, Utah, 84054 - (801)
>298-0406
>
>
Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month
(depending on the local service providers in your area).
https://broadband.msn.com
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | One Design builders? |
Ron,
I built a carbon plenum over the engine on the 1D and a fiberglass plenum on
the RV-6. Seals better than rubber strips. I just laid some foam on top of
the engine and shaped it down the the aluminum side baffles. The top shape
just cleared the inside of the cowl for max volume. Then put down wax paper
and packing tape to keep the epoxy from sticking to the foam. Then laid it
it.
My engine is an angle valve so it is 200 hp without mods. Barrett did a new
bottom end so nothing was done to gain more hp. The engine went to him with
recent chromed cylinders with a new top end so I didn't put money I didn't
have in replacing the top end.
I have a 3-blade wood Performance prop. It works great. I flew the 1D a few
hrs before I realized the engine needed serious work. Great climb AND
cruise. The low inertia of a wood prop is needed for the snap rolls and I
can't afford a low inertia CS prop. I'm very satisfied with the performance
of this prop and would not spend the money of CS even if I had it. Only
downside is having to remember to pull power back going downhill.
The engine mount and some other parts came from Rouke. Very good
workmanship. Grove gear legs also very good. We made molds for the
turtledeck, belly pan, cowl and lower cowl. The cowl extends back to the
seat so removing the top cowl opens up the forward fuselage. I have
carbon/epoxy parts pulled from these molds on my 1D. There is another set of
parts laying in these molds right now. I do not own the molds and the owner
is trying to sell them. They are in my hangar now and can't imagine someone
would want to buy them since the 1D is not a high volume seller.
My fuselage was TIG welded up locally and the persons doing this made a
production quality jig with toggle clamp holding fixtures for it. This jig
is somewhere here in town. I'm sure it is just collecting dust.
Let me know if I can help further. You should check out the 1D homepage. I
don;t have the address but found the link from Rihn Aircraft's web site.
Rick
>From: "Ron C" <ronc(at)metropolisdesign.com>
>Reply-To: aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: Aerobatic-List: One Design builders?
>Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:42:38 -0600
>
>
>Rick-
>
>So do you have a plenum over your engine? If so whose is it? I have
>thought about one for a while on the rocket. Also I have 10:1 pistons
>and flowed cyls on the Rocket. What does Barrett do to get 200hp from
>his 360's? Did you go with a constant speed prop? Did you buy much stuff
>from Rourke or other specialty suppliers?
>
>Ron
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aerobatic-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
>Caldwell
>To: aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Aerobatic-List: One Design builders?
>
>
>-->
>
>Hi Ron,
>
>I'm one. I bought my One Design as an almost finished project. I've
>had
>the engine rebuilt by Barrett Performance (200 hp -A1A), I've done all
>the
>systems, panel, cooling plenum, etc. I am just finishing up wiring the
>sensors for the Rocky Mtn uMonitor and expect to get it in the air this
>weekend.
>
>I thought the RV-6 I built and the 1D were the ideal combination but you
>
>have just bested that. At least I can carry folded up bicycles :)
>
>Rick Caldwell
>Melbourne, FL
>136RC
>137RC
>
> >From: "Ron C" <ronc(at)metropolisdesign.com>
> >Reply-To: aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: Aerobatic-List: One Design builders?
> >Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:16:03 -0600
> >
> >-->
> >
> >
> > Hi Aerobatic nuts I am a new One Design builder and am looking to
> >hook up with other OD builders for mutual exchange/support/questions
> >etc. Are there any OD guys on this list?
> >
> >Currently I fly a Harmon Rocket II which I completed in '99.
> >
> >Ron Carter
> >Metropolis Design
> >ronc(at)metropolisdesign.com
> >
> >900 North 400 West, Bldg 13, North Salt Lake, Utah, 84054 - (801)
> >298-0406
> >
> >
>
>Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month
>(depending on the local service providers in your area).
>https://broadband.msn.com
>
>
>==
>direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>==
>http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
>==
>==
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
September 19, 2001 - October 10, 2003
Aerobatic-Archive.digest.vol-ab