EZ-Archive.digest.vol-ab
August 31, 2000 - November 14, 2003
The standard 500 yards spool is enough to do dozens of
airplanes.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
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| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Galls wig/wag flasher . . . |
I've had a number of questions about hooking up this popular wig/wag
flasher and without having put my hands on one, I was unable to be
very authoritative. I purchased one a few weeks ago and last night
I took the time to scope out the critter.
I was disappointed to find that the flasher ties the two lamp circuits
together when it's de-energized . . . no big deal on police cars where
headlights are normally operated together . . . but a bit of a challange
when you'd like to have independent landing and taxi light circuits.
None-the-less, I've deduced and published a wiring diagram at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html which folks are welcome
to download as interest and/or need dictates.
By the way, I have a very nearly new Galls flasher for sale at
$10 less than I paid for it . . . first $45 offer via
direct email to me takes it . . . post paid anywhere in US.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Santa Rosa Seminar . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
Driving directions and hotel accomodations info has been posted
for the Santa Rosa CA seminar Sept 30/Oct 1. It's not too late
to sign up for this program. If we get a few more attendees,
we'll up the doorprize ante to two, count'm TWO handheld
GPS receievers. BTW, the current price of choice is the Magellan
GPS 310 that accepts a serial data cable option . . .
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars.html
Further, there is sufficient interest in the proposed So Cal
and Portland programs to pick dates and places. We'll get those
programs firmed up in the next few weeks for presentations
in Jan/Feb time frame.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | . . . just couldn't stand it. |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
At the request of several readers, I sat down at the bench last week
and doped out a good way to use the popular Galls emergency vehicle
flasher as a wig_wag system for airplanes. The thing was useable but
it just struck me as too expensive, too heavy, and drove the total
parts count in the system up.
Been thrashing the seeds of an idea for several days. I've published
an elegant alternative to the Galls system on our website. Check out
the top item at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html
I am by no means suggesting that folks rip out the Galls system if
it's installed and working to their satisfaction . . . there's nothing
wrong with the way the thing functions. However, if you plan to have
a wig_wag see-and-be-seen system on your airplane and you've not yet
purchased hardware to do it, consider the new drawing I've posted for
a lower cost, lighter, and easier to install alternative.
We'll have an assembled flasher assembly to add with relay and switches
already stock in our catalog pretty soon. Alternatively, you may
roll-your-own from data supplied in the drawing.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: to torroid or not to torrid, that IS the question . . . |
<004501c01433$fd7402a0$2d11dcd8@montanapc>
<4.3.2.7.0.20000902215147.00b52cf0(at)popd.ix.netcom.com>
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>Hmmm! I have been doing business with RST for over ten years and never
>been treated rudely. I can imagine that he doesn't have a soft spot in his
>heart for Bob Archer, who openly denigrates RST's designs over the internet
>and in print. I have personally tested RST's designs with some antenna
>testing equipment that is about 25% of the price of my kit, and it performs
>quite fabulously. Whether it would perform just as well without the
>toroids, as Bob Archer would lead one to believe, I do not know, because I
>did not test the system that way.
I've tested the coaxial feedline (unbalanced) tied directly
to a dipole (balanced) antenna using a half dozen VHF rated
torroids for the hopeful purpose of reducing the effects
of so poor a match between antenna and feedline.
The net results for having added a few torroids was barely
detectable with some pretty sophisticated test equipment.
Only after we added about two dozen more torroids, did the
sum total of their effects become significant. Bob Archer's
poor customer relations notwithstanding, he is technically
accurate in the assessment that the torroids don't help
enough to make them worthwhile. While they don't help, they
don't hurt either. We've got a stocking order in for foil
tape and we'll be offering materials for embedded antenna
fabrication from our website catalog. We'll NOT be offering
the torroids as part of the kit.
There are coaxial transformers called "baluns" that will
do a nice job of transfering energy from balanced antennas
to unbalance feedlines . . . the net effect of these devices
is so small as to generate the question, "does the increase
in performance warrant the increase in complexity combined
with a potential decrease in reliability?" Based on my
observations of tens of thousands of Cessnas flying around
sans baluns and torroids with VACUUM tube receivers . . .
I'll suggest the answer is no.
Actually, you don't even need the copper foil. If you remove
the outer insulation from a piece of coax for about 30", pull
the center conductor out through the side of the braid as
shown in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/shldwire/shldwire.html
Take shield one direction and center lead the other direction
to make a dipole antenna. Use antenna analyzer to trim each
side of antenna until lowest SWR happens in center of frequency
range of interest. Glass this hummer in and you're done. No
solder joints. Being a fine wire antenna, this technique will
not be as broad-band in its SWR characteristics as an antenna
made from foil . . . but it will still perform quite nicely
for listenting to a VOR station 50 miles away from 5,000 feet
AGL.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Error in wig/wag circuit . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
Many thanks to reader Ken Brown for pointing out a fundamental
flaw in the way I wired the wig/wag circuit for Option 3.
A revised drawing has been uploaded for any interested parties
to download at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/aec_ww.pdf
Another reader, George Meketa, had another idea for a wig/wag
with some unique features and fewer switches on the panel.
Option 4 uses one, 3-position switch for OFF-TAXI-BOTH operation
of the landing and taxi lights. While in the BOTH position, pressing
a stick mounted push button produces wig/wag operation. The stick
mounted switch could also be a small toggle or rocker switch (the
current in this switch is 100 milliamperes) so that you don't
have to hold the button to keep the wig/wag functioning. Our
proposed AEC9020-1 flasher module will work with either option.
I've uploaded Option 4 to the website at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/aec_ww2.pdf
Whilst you're peeking at our website, take a look at what is
probably the world's smallest VHF comm transceiver at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/avionics/760vhf.html
We're out shopping for avionics which in my opinion have
a lot of bang for the buck . . . watch for other goodies
to show up there soon.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Shower-o-sparks magneto wiring . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
Don't know if it's the phase of the moon or el-nino effects
but I've had three requests in the last two days for info on
wiring a "vibrator" enhanced magneto . . . I've published a
wiring diagram on the website at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Weir article on Microair 760 . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
Several folk mentioned a review Jim did on the Microair 760.
I found a copy on Microair's website and reproduced it at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/avionics/760vhf.html
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Please unsubscribe me from the automatic e-mailings. They are nothing more
than advertisements for aeroelectric. Kurt Wegge, ezzzpi(at)cs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: nmh batteries |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
At 05:18 AM 9/10/00 GMT, you wrote:
>I saw two brands of nmh AA cells in Wally world. Energizer and Ray-o-vac I
>think. Just wondering if they were any better for GPS & hand held radios
>than ni-cad. Same voltage as ni-cad 1.2. Thanks for your many informative
>posts to the Kolb list. Bill in Lousyana
My pleasure sir . . .
My personal favorites for low voltage (4 cells or less) radios are
alkalines . . . they contain much more total energy than most
ni-cads . . . and about the same as run-of-the-mill NmH cells.
The best part is that they start out at 1.5 volts versus 1.25 for
the "nickels" . . .
Go to Dollar General stores and buy their house brand AA nicads.
I've tested these batteries repeatedly and they're withing a few
percent of best bunnybatteries you can buy. Best yet, unburdened
by VERY expensive television and print advertising, is they cost
25 cents per cell . . . A VERY good value.
The only thing that beats this for dollars/joule of energy
stored are the Ray-o-Vac Renew series rechargable alkalines.
The down side of these are you have to have a charger and a place
to plug it in. I buy the Dollar General batteries about 10 packages
at a time and keep plenty of spares in my flight bag.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: nmh batteries |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>Bob----Dollar General NICADS, or Alkalines? I think you meant alkalines,
>didn't you?
Opps . . . yes. Thanks for the heads up.
Dollar General has a "Powerize" brand
"long lasting Alkaline" cell that sells
in our local stores for $1.50/pkg of 6 cells.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery trade-offs |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>Also take a look at:
>
>http://www.avionicswest.com/batterylife.html#Life
>
>
> --Duane
Thanks for the heads up on this one. I've captured it
and will include it in a bibliography of information
I'm gatering on people's practical experience with batteries.
It's interesting to note that the most expensive batteries
(nicad and/or nimh) had the lowest operating life even when
they claimed 1600 maH of capacity, some jelly-bean brands
of alkalines performed longer.
The author seems enamored of the 1-cent per battery
cycle for battery cost . . . which is indeed a valid
consideration. For me personally, the long battery life
(radio never needs batteries in flight) and convenience
of throwaway is more important . . . PROVIDED that I don't
pay $5.00/set for batteries.
With my Dollar Generals, it costs me $1 to battery up
the Magellan 2000 and $0.50 for the 300. That's $1.50
per flight for 100% servicability of both radios. When
I burn $85 worth of fuel per flight and pay about $240
in rental, the $1.50 is a pretty tiny part of the total
cost. My personal quest is for maximized flight system
reliability while minimizing cost and inconvenience of dealing
with chargers, etc. away from home base.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery trade-offs |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>Bob,
>
>Since you're doing a bibliography, I'll throw in my experience. I've messed
>with nicads in the past and don't think much of them as replacements for
>Alkaline AA cells. They just don't last long enough. But my Garmin handheld
>GPS 90 will go through a set of AA Duracells on the way to OSH and another
>on the way back. So at OSH I decided to try some NmH. Got eight of these
>little green generic deals for $2.50 ea from Batteries America booth. So far
>I like them -- they seem to last as long as the Duracells but are
>rechargable. Being environmentally conscious I try to avoid disposable
>anyhing, including batteries.
>
>As for the quality and longevity, time will tell.
>
The Nimh are generally much higher capacity than their
Nicad cousins and we should expect them to outperform
the Nicads. I use Nimh in my amateur radio hand-helds
and have also noticed improved longevity . . . at least
with respect to usage. Nicad and Nimh have much higher
self-discharge rates than alkalines and therefore have
very poor shelf life by comparison . . . but for gizmos
that are used regularly, the Nimh is an excellent
alternative. I think service life of the Nimh should
be on a par with Nicad.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Soldering station for sale |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
I've got a really nice temperature controlled solder station
up on Ebay . . .
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=434477668
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: experimental battery box |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>That is why there was a gap between putting the new battery in and putting
>the battery in a box. I didn't think there was a problem but then an A&P
>came to look over my plane for possible buying, he said that it was
>dangerous not to have a box. A&P, IA's are the experts.
>>Batteries have been known to explode so I would recommend some kind of
>>secondary containment for safety regardless if it is an RG, flooded cell or
>>whatever.
Battery boxes have NEVER been designed to contain an exploding
battery . . . in fact, battery boxes have been DEMONSTRATED
to make an explosion more likely if not more violent.
Real life case in point:
Amateur built airplane, all composite, very nice composite
battery box glassed right into the passenger seat back.
Alternator goes into OV. No annunciation of OV condition
and battery begins to outgas. In the course of "troublshooting"
the system, a few switches get thrown, one of which is
the battery master contactor control switch. Battery contactor
INSIDE the box with the battery ignites ideal mixture and
blows up battery box.
No flight-safety damage to aircraft but the pilot's underwear
was seriously compromised.
What's the physics of this event? To have an explosion you
must have three conditions. (1) A source of FUEL that's mixed
in proportions to produce rapid combustion. Too much fuel/
oxygen, no explosion; too little fuel/oxygen, no explosion.
Cook a battery and you disassociate water H20 into H2 and
O2 in ratios ideal for recombination in spectacular manner.
(2) CONTAINMENT in this case was the nicely crafted battery
box. Without containment, gunpowder simply burns. Wrap it
up in rolls of newspaper and you have a firecracker. Finally,
(3) IGNITION provided by the battery contactor located inside
the battery box.
LOTS of things could be done to break the chain of events
that could have been much more serious . . .
(1) Proper ov protection on the airplane's electrical system.
(2) No battery box . . . let the vented gasses waft away
in the breeze.
(3) Don't mount electrical equipment inside the battery box
along with the battery.
(4) Adequate instrumentation on the electrical system to
KNOW what's happening when stuff starts to misbehave and
adequate UDERSTANDING of the system to do the right things
about it.
By the way, the BIG guys don't have battery boxes either.
The battery on a bizjet comes with a nice connector on the
side. You drop the critter into a tray, strap it down
and plug it in. None the less, there are documented cases
of an RG battery blowing up when a poorly welded inter-cell
connector burned off . . . needless to say, a redesign and
modification to the assembly process was accomplished in
a hurry.
Not one government-approved airplane-banger in ten
understands or can explain what you've just read.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Lighting |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>--> RV-List message posted by: Tdiede(at)aol.com
>
>Am currently designing instrument panel for RV-8. Question:
>
>Is the internal lighting available with instruments adequete ?
>Why would one use "light posts" around the instruments ?
>
Internal lighting has always be quite adequate . . . so
adequate in fact that we've charge a whole lot of extra
dollars to fit a certified aircraft with all internally
lighted instruments. Post lights are also adquate but
a fully illuminated set of instruments can require a dozen
or more of the rather pricey little light fixtures.
Flood lighting (a-la Cessna 172) takes one or two lamps,
minimal wiring, draws very little current and installs
in a fraction of the time it takes to wire up a forest
of post lights.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
list-aerobatic ,
list-avionics ,
list-ez , list-glasair ,
list-lancair ,
list-rocket
| Subject: | Pitot tube SPECIAL price |
Hello to the list,
I have just received a price increase from the manufacture of the AN5814
heated pitot tube. This is the heated pitot tube with the static source
in the pitot tube. I have a good supply of this pitot tube that I will
sell at the old (before price increase) price. The old price is $199,
this includes shipping in the US. After my current supply is gone, I
must increase my price to $206 which will also include shipping in the
US.
This will be on a first come first serve basis.
Check out my website for descriptions of this product and also my heated
pitot tube mounting bracket kits. You can purchase using your VISA or
MASTER CARD using my online order form, or call me in the evenings or on
weekends.
My website address is: http://www.gretzaero.com
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
303-770-3811 evenings and weekends (you may also leave a message other
times)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual batteries |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> I have experiance with marine electrical systems. Their are some very
>light, vapor sealed rotary battery switches. They would need to be modified
>for aviation use. But they are very reliable and are capable of high current
>loads. For two battery systems, the rotary switch is labeled left, right,
>both.
It's very easy and in fact recommended that multiple batteries
each have their own contactor for connection to the system. Furhter,
there are connections to each battery that do not go through the
contactor for running components of an electrically dependent
engine. I.e., your electrically dependent engine should operate
whether or not the DC master switch(es) are ON or OFF . . .
>> It's not an issue of electrical demand its the reliability and redundancy
>> that concerns me. I have the Stratus Subaru engine and I'm getting the
>> dual ignition but obviously don't have mags. So the second battery
would be
>> primarily backup power for the ignition, but potentially you could use two
>> batteries of the same size and provide complete redundancy. Of course on
>> the other hand adding that reduncy could also increase the complexity and
>> reduce the reliability of the system. I'm just interested if there is some
>> experience out there with some real simple redundant electrical systems.
This topic has been discussed at length on the lists, in our book,
in articles downloadable from our website and illustrated in numerous
wiring diagrams downloadable from the website. Two-battery installations
are no big deal . . .
>The concern you have for flying with your soob electrical system is
>legitimate. If auto systems are going to be used in aircraft, then you must
>build in redundant systems to match typical aircraft systems.
I'll suggest the LAST thing we want to do is match "typical" aircraft
systems . . . the architecture, components and pilot's understanding
of those systems have not changed in 50 years.
>If a battery fails in most aircraft, the engine will continue to run,
>In your auto set up if the battery fails so does your engine. A
>two battery system duplicates the two magneto system pretty close
>as far as redundantcy is concerned. Batteries can and do fail with
>out warning.
Batteries do NOT fail without warning. It's just that most of us
don't pay any attention to what the battery is trying to tell us.
We replace tires when the tread is gone, overhaul cylinders when
the compression gets low, file nicks out of propellers when noticed,
etc . . . . but we beat a battery until it fails to crank the engine
. . . and replace it after we've propped the airplane for the third
time.
Very rudimentary preventative maintenance techiques will insure
that nobody reading these words will EVER experience battery failure.
>To reduce the weight penalty two smaller bateries can be used,
>but they must be sized with absolute precision.
Don't know about "precision" but some consideration must be given
to what a battery's task is. Batteries have three duties: (1) crank
the engine, (2) stabilize alternator(s) and (3) provide power for
essential goodies should alternator output be lost. The BEST
hedge against alternator failure is two alternators . . . dump
the sucky vacuum pump and install a second alternator. THEN the
batteries on board no longer have to be sized for standby power.
Total system weight can be much reduced.
>This topic is outside my area of knowledge, so educate me. I have an HDS
>with Stratus Soob. I have a small motorcycle battery (14AH) which has
>cranked me up without hesitation for 18 months and 98 hours of flight
>time. If my alternator light comes on and my instruments haven't indicated a
>problem, I think I can turn off my master and fly a long time on battery.
I'd encourage this builder to replace THINKING with KNOWING how long
his airplane will stay aloft battery only. Your battery should be
no smaller than your fuel tank. If you do not KNOW that the battery
capacity on board will allow you to use up fuel on board, then I'll
suggest further investigation, personal education and perhaps
some changes to your system are indicated . .
> something is wrong with the battery, shouldn't there be early indications.
> For thirty-one bucks I can get a new one. I have dual ignition but never
> thought I needed dual batteries. What are the odds of loosing all
> electrical if you are maintaining your airplane and monitoring your
> instruments? My empty weight is 602 and I like that.
There's no pat answer to this . . . a number of options exist for
insuring your flight system reliability. My personal goal for
system reliability is, "From the time I break ground to the time
I land, I don't want to break a sweat." This doesn't have to mean
nothing ever fails. It means that I have to architecture a system
for failure tolerance and educate myself in its operation and
maintenance to sustain that level of reliability. Dual batteries
and indeed dual alternators can often make for a LIGHTER airplane.
>1. Flight over hostile territory (I fly in the Pacific Northwest w/o a lot
>of "emergency landing fields").
>2. Alternator craps out.
This happens a LOT on certified aircraft . . . just check the
service difficulty reports at faa.gov . . . the REASON alternators
crap a lot is because the overwhelming majority of the TC
fleet are fitted with crappy alternators . . . holy-watered and
configuration managed right into antiquity. TC alternators fail
routinely in obscene ways every month . . . through bolts broke,
cases cracked, bearings seized, windings burned . . . you name
it . . . it happens. By LAW, that alternator will be returned to
ORIGINAL configuration and bolted back on some poor pilot's airplane.
B&C and similar alternators (Nipon-Dienso) have DEMONSTRATED
operational reliability suggesting that most will run the lifetime
of engine with nothing more than a belt change. B&C's return rate
in thousands of sales over the past 10 years has been under 1% for
the total fleet!
>3. The above fact is discovered by the voltage dropping alarmingly low on
>the voltmeter.
Why not some form of ACTIVE notification of alternator failure?
Most pilots don't look at the voltmeter until the panel starts to
go black or the radios begin to mis-behave . . . with no ACTIVE
notification, one tootles along with everything operating and
lights blazing thus squandering a limited energy resource. By the
time you know anything is wrong, your options are all gone.
>4. Shedding the electrical load still leaves too little juice to power
>things like radio, fuel pump, and CD player.
See articles on website and chapter in book on system reliability.
>Hence, I installed a second 17 ah battery with a switch on the panel that
>kicks in the second battery and provides extra time to make a safe landing
>with needed equipment.
Dual 17 a.h. batteries is 34 pounds total. Add to this about 8-10 pounds
of vacuum system for 44 pounds. Now consider taking out two batteries,
one vacuum system and putting one 4 to 7 pound alternator and one
10 pound battery for a weight REDUCTION of 27 pounds and a net
increase in flight system reliability unequaled in ANY certified
aircraft.
>5 years ago I was on a 300 mile cross country in a Cessna 150. 30 miles from
>my destination the voltage regulator apparently failed wide open. Sparks
and
>smoke started spewing our of the instrument panel as my first indication.
In
>the short time I took to turn everything off, it was too late, basically
>everthing that was "on" failed including the electric clock. I was also
>amazed that in that short time, the battery was completely discharged. Once
>the smoke cleared and I calmed down. I continued to my destination with a
>completely inoperative electrical system and made a normal no flap landing.
>With one battery and an electronic ignition system, I would have had a dead
>engine as well.
Forgive me, I am in no way trying to demean this writer's experience
but this is typical of the "dark and stormy night" stories that
drive our design, maintenance and operating decisions on homebuilts.
I'll suggest that TC aircraft can be used only as examples of
how NOT to architecture, maintain and operate an electrical system. I've
often written that my personal mind-set climbing into a rental TC
ship is that I don't care if ANY of that stuff is working 5 minutes
after take-off. I intend to get where I need to go without breaking
a sweat. That means UNDERSTANDING the limitations of a machine designed
mechanics and procedures . . . and outfitting myself to deal with the
worst. $30 worth of parts and a weekend's effort could elevate the
average TC aircraft into 21st century . . . but it ain't gonna happen.
This is why we need to look past our experience with TC ships to
design and operate our airplanes.
Virtually EVERY concern voiced above can be addressed with simple
choices in architecture and knowledge of how the system and its
components operate. Education and decisions based on understanding
will make it so . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>I use the Garmin GPS III pilot on the dash of a Kitfox lite and it works
>great. My antenna is left on the GPS. The altitude feature is very helpful
>as I can watch rate of climb/decent. Do the cheap GPS's have altitude? I
>think this is a feature of the number of satellites they pick up.
I wrote an article for Sport Aviation about three years
ago that you can download at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/nailgun.pdf
The radios have changed but the basic facts have not. I've
not turned on a VOR receiver in 3 years. I fly dual GPS with
a total investment of about $200. I give these things away
at my weekend seminars. Given the signup rate for the Santa
Rosa program next weekend, I'll probably give away two of them.
There's no better return on investment than a low-end
Magellan hand held GPS receiver. The AOPA airport directly
makes entry of a new airport location about a 2 minute
trivial task. Since selective access was turned off, my
GPS300 gives altitude in 1 foot increments.
WARNING! Altitud displays can lag considerably behind
true altitude . . . it's harder to calculate and can be
off by several hundred feed after a rapid/large change.
Give it a few minutes to settle down and/or make altitude
changes more sedately and you'll find the readings track
your altimeter very closely.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum System |
<39.aa2aaa7.270392b5(at)aol.com>
<022701c028db$1a6bdfc0$18210a18@bllvu1.wa.home.com>
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
Just a passing thought....will check my sources of replacement 12 volt vacuum
motors used in motorhome central vacs, I know the until is about 80% more
inches of vacuum then needed, but the motor does draw a fair amount of
current at 14
volts dc.. Perhaps using an IC regulator to reduce the voltage to around 8
volts would bring the current to an acceptable level and enough vacuum.
"TBO" for the brushes is rated 300-500 hours.
I used to build electrically driven standby vacuum systems . . . they
are NOT as dependable as an engine driven vacuum system . . . this is
why they were popularized as a standby. It sat in the airplane unused
until needed. The most dependable is a venturi . . . no moving parts.
Harder to de-ice tho. Given that one's #1 mission upon encountering
ice is to get out of ice, then perhaps de-ice isn't that important.
See latest issue AOPA pilot where a pilot writes about an instrument
course he took. The goal was to get him rated in 10 days. The first thing
the instructor did was cover up the attitude gyro saying, "we won't
need this."
I used to fly shotgun for a co-worker's instrument proficiency
work . . . he would cover up BOTH gyros and we'd go out to shoot
approaches to minimums in the typcial KS bumpy crosswinds. And by
the way, this was NOT a "no gyro" approach using timed turns from
the ground. We went out at lunch time to fly Mid Continent Airport
mixed in with all the big guys and totally on his own. He'd
nail those two needles together and track them right down to the
runway every time. Flying IFR with gyros is not difficult . . .
it's just a different way of doing it. Doing it well gives you
more options about equipment expectations and puts the odds of
living to fly another day decidedly in your favor.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Gone to Santa Rosa . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
Dee and I are packed up and pulling the plugs on the
office computers. We'll be headed for Santa Rosa in the
morning to do a weekend seminar.
Will be taking care of e-mail duties via the dial-up
account and a traveling laptop but the hammer-n-tongs
stuff from the shop is on hold until Monday. Looking
forward to meeting with lots of our readers this weekend.
You don't need a reservation to make this program . . .
just show up and we'll find a seat for you.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/SantaRosa.html
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
list-engines , list-ez ,
list-glasair
| Subject: | any 172's for sale? |
Hello List,
I have a good friend that is looking for an older Cessna 172 for sale.
If you know of anyone that has one, and it is in OK shape, please
contact me with the details.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | 28 vs. 14 volt airplane . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>I have an 0-320D2G engine with 28V Alternator & Starter. Many of the
>electrical items I already have purchased use 12V (nose lift, mac servo's).
>I have the option of trading for a 12V Alternator & Starter at no additional
>cost.
Please consider taking advantage of this option . . .
I understand that 2X the voltage = 1/2 the current, meaning the wire
>size going from the battery to the engine is much small for the 28V system
>(less weight).
The 28v option made sense when we were building B-29's and B-52's with
as much as several hundred miles of wire in them . . . the weight savings
was significant. Further, the builders of these machines had pretty deep
pockets to reach into (yours and mine) to finance the miliatary aviation
specialty hardware items unique to their task.
Later on, folks who built DC-6's and 707's knew that the return on
investment for a revenue generating machine was a function of how
many pounds of pax/bags could carried. The airplanes were still pretty
complex and again, the cash to pay for them would continue to come
from the same pockets . . .
Now, your airplane isn't going to make you a dime. In fact, it's
going to COST you a lot of dollars. Further, money isn't going
to come from any pockets but your own to finance the task. While
one might successfully argue a small weight savings it will be quite
small. In a simple single it's not over a couple of pounds.
However, locking yourself down to aviation specific, 28V hardware
shuts you out of all the opportunities to exploit automotive and
consumer products that are widely available, high volume, and
competitively priced.
One exception to consider in this reasoning is unique to canard-pushers.
Cabin heat. If you're going to insist on flying in cold weather and/or
high altitudes, electric toe warmers might help you survive the
experience with a minimum of discomfort. I've had several builders
go for 28V, 60A systems. While the weight of the altenrator
and battery needed are about the same as for 14V, 60A . . . the energy
you can get out of the 28V alternator is twice that of the 14V . . .
all of which you will need and wish for more if you're considering
electric cabin heat.
> . . . . Also, If you mix your loads, what is the best solution? A
>converter or two batteries or something else? Or does someone make a 28V
>battery with the cell poles exposed with 12V tapping capability? Any
>suggestions greatly appreciated.
Mixed voltages in a small airplane are almost never practical.
The size, weight, and cost of voltage conversion equipment clobbers
an otherwise elegant design. Further, you're often forced
to run multiple accessories from the voltage converter meaning
that it becomes a single point of failure for all the goodies
it powers.
Tapping down on half of a 28v battery to get 14v is about the
best way I know of to kill off an otherwise perfectly good
battery.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Fuel low level warning. |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>My header tank is painted black. in the hangar I have no problem with the
>low level warning light coming on with the tank full. when I pulled the fox
>out into the sun today, the low level warning light came on. I suspect that
>light is being introduced into the header tank by the clear (but slightly
>yellow) vent line to the right tank that had the sun on it.
>
>Has anyone experienced this? How did you solve it.
When using the opto-reflective liquid level sensors, stray
light will always be an issue. Most of the applications I
designed for in the past were metalic or bladder tanks
and external lights were not a problem. In cases where we
did have to address the issue, a baffle or other shade
over the sensor tip was useful. One sensor I built had the
cone tip of the sensor surrounded by a black anodized cup
drilled with small holes. Liquid could get in to trip the
sensor but light was restricted.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Electronic ignition - |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> I have Klaus's system on the bottom plugs on my 0-320 EZ and during a
recent
>jug off inspection We were pleased to find that side of the piston and rings
>were much cleaner than the top, almost polished. I have fine wire plugs on
>the top.I had much better luck w/ the plasma system then the mag. IE no
>maintenance to the plasma and 2 overhauls to the mag. Next mag o/h will not
>happen,I'll go to another plasma.
I think this is a good move. Some builders I've spoken with
are eager to jerk off both mags and put on electronics. 90%+
of your performance gains are with the first electronic
ignition. Since you PAID for two mags and/or the discount
for not getting mags is not equal to their replacment cost,
consider putting on one electronic igntion. Run one mag util
it barfs. Put the other mag back on and run it to belly-up
time . . . THEN put on the second electronic.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>This comes up often, usually by someone who has gotten some great "deals"
>on avionics and who tries to make it all work harmoniously. Every attempt
>I know of to mix and match avionics of different voltages has, sooner or
>later, been abandoned by those who tried.
>
>Were you living in Montana or some other cold spot, I'd suggest 28 volts
>to compensate for the effects of low temps on batteries. As an added
>aside, you could then use that voltage to advantage and reduce the weight
>of your plane by a few pounds by running lighter gauge wire.
A common misconception about batteries . . . the goal when
cranking an engine is to maximize the energy transfer from
the battery's chemistry to the starter motor. The biggest
impediment to this transfer is a combination of resistances
in battery, wire, contactors and terminals.
When GA (most notibly Cessna) went all 28 v it was mostly for
reasons of economy . . . one size alternator/battery fits all
from C-150 to C-210 . . . yes, there was some notible improvement
in cranking at cold weather with 28v . . .
In retrospect, this was mostly due to poor attention paid to
reducing system impedances. A little clean up work with choice
of wire sizes and hardware location and upgrading the starter
which had roots in the 1938 6v Jeep, there would have been
no detectable difference in cranking performance of the two
systems.
Today, the modern RG battery is head and shoulders above
the flooded batteries upon which many of us base our perceptions
of battery and system performance.
When I was helping B&C test batteries to gain STC on their
RG products for TC aircraft, we put two brand new batteries
in the freezer overnight. One was a Concord flooded product,
the other was a B&C RG. In the morning, we loaded each battery
in turn with 300 amps . . . about half again more current than
it takes to crank an engine.
The flooded battery started out at 8 volts and slid downhill
from there. At the end of 30 seconds of loading, the RG batttery
had not yet fallen to 8 volts!
This can be attributed to one and only one attribute of the
RG technology . . . very low internal resistance compared
to flooded batteries at ALL temperatures.
>But you don't. You live in Florida. Go with the 12 volt system.
>Everything else being equal, 12 volt equipment is more plentiful and
>often cheaper.
. . . not often, ALWAYS. You need to consider beyond the
cost of acquisition. Cost of ownership for a 28 v system are
real cash and time suckers compared to 14 v.
>Second suggestion. Wait until a few months before the airframe is
>finished, painted and the engine in place BEFORE buying avionics. I've
>brand new Loran and ADF units that are virtually boat anchors. Good
>deals when I bought them, probably just like you, expecting I'd have the
>thing built and flying "in no time"
Excellent advice. Electronics advances faster than any other
commodity . . . I wouldn't buy a battery or a radio until just
before you're ready to install them. Use jumper cables to a
car/boat/tractor battery or an alternator simulator to test
the airplane's systems. Buy a fresh new battery to install
before first light under the wheels.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>Want to jump or charge your 24 volt battery - consider a
>charger that is 6, 12 & 24 or a 24 volt only. If you need to jump
>start it it takes two, care and really long cables or you need to
>have the proper high $$$ adapter to plug into a power unit.
Ground power is a strong driving issue . . . you can jump
start your 14 v airplane from a vehicle.
>I don't find the worry about using converters powering gauges
>such as fuel pressure since a 24volt battery is still using less
>amperage, it should last longer.
24 v batteries are two 12 v batteries in series with smaller
cells. For the same ENERGY storage, you need the same number
of pounds of lead and acid . . . but a 24 volt battery has
more plastic in it and is probably heavier/larger by some
small amount than the equivalent 12 v battery. Given the
smaller plate area/chemistry per cell, I've noted that the
24 v battery is less tolerant to deep discharge cycles
than the 12 v with fatter cells . . . all other things being equal,
I think the 12 v battery will outlast the 24 in similar service.
>Light bulbs will cost more (24 V) unless there is more of a
>quantity built for 24 volt than 12 volt.
12 v lamps are made in tens of millions . . . further, you
have more options for some REALLY nice exterior lighting.
Taked for example the lamp you can see at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/4352.JPG
is about 2" tall, 5" wide, puts out lots of light on 55
watts (about 4.5 amps drain on system) and fits very
nicely in the leading edge of a wing. Further, it's
a modern, automotive halogen that will probably last
for the lifetime of your airplane.
>I do like the more watts offered by 24 volt comm's example;
>KX-155 or 165 7.5 watts (12 volt) broadcast verses 10 watts (24 volt).
>KX-196 or 197 - the 12 volt is 10 watts vs 16 watts for 24 volt.
>The advantage is - usually - range and clarity.
. . . take a peek at:
http://www.decibelproducts.com/mrktng-eng/scripts/freespace.cfm
This is a free space path loss calculator that can tell you
what the theroetical talk distance is between your radio
and somebody elses.
Assume you have 1 watt of effective radiated power (this is
30 dbmw in engineer-speak). Assume the guy you want to talk
to has a receiver capable of hearing a 5 MICROVOLT signal
(not difficult to do) . . . this signal would have an energy
level of -123 dbmw for a total allowable path loss of
153 dbmw
Go to that calculator and enter distances using 120 Mhz as
the frequency of interest and you'll find a freespace
talking distance of 6000 miles.
Now, there ARE other factors that ADD to your losses including
coax and antenna efficiency. Also local noise at the other
end competes with your arriving signal. Sooo . . . lets assume
that you're at 15,000 feet and talking with somebody who is
50 miles away (not over the horizon for you) . . . and he can
just read your signal when you use your 1 watt transmitter.
Going back to the calculator we find that the path loss over
50 miles is 112 db. Let us say you switch over to a 2 watt
transmitter . . .this means your signal at the other end gets
a 3 db boost. Now you can tolerate a 115 db loss between you
an the other guy and still be heard with the same clarity.
Back at the calculator we find that 70 miles is the range
for doubling your power output. Further, 50-70 miles is SO
small compared to the free-space range that one must conclude
that other factors have a strong effect on range of communciations.
Curvature of the earth, noise at receiving end and poor
selection of antennas and/or feedlines all stack up to
attenuate your signal.
It's much easier to talk further with system efficiency
cleanup than to boost transmitter power output.
>
>Two 5 amp 14.7 volt converters weigh less then 3 lbs. so,
>if a back-up is needed it's no big deal.
This is true . . . with reservations. There are electronic
components out there that let you build very light down-converters
that are also very efficient. However, they are strong
oscillators (read transmitters) that can interfere
with other systems on board . . . most notably receivers.
Unless the converter has been tested for aircraft applications,
approach with caution . . . I'm not saying don't try it
but do enough testing of your finished installation to make
sure there are no adverse effects from a relatively
unknown product.
>With all the newer call for 12/14 volt stuff, it's a trade.
>I did it because my engine came so equipped and knew
>of some of the advantages of 24/28 systems.
>One of them is how long you can crank the engine.
>However, I have always felt that if the engine doesn't
>start up in 1 to 4 blades you might have a problem that's
>being overlooked. But I want that power if I ever need a restart
>in the air.
Excellent point. I used to be able to push-start
my 6-cyl Chevy out in the street by myself. I could
just get it rolling, jump in and pop the critter into
low and it would fire off on the first cylinder that
rolled over. Keeping an engine finely tuned and understanding
a particular engine's idiosyncrasies can make a BIG
difference in starter wear, battery life, etc.
>All in all it's a personal choice but the 24volt system might
>cost as much as $500 if done correctly (that includes a 24 volt
>battery charger.) And weight savings on a Long is 16.5
>pounds by my old calculations (1983).
I'm really interested in this weight savings number. Starters
in the ol' Prestolite pig don't get any lighter at 28V, batteries
with the same ENGERY (12V/32 a.h. versus 24V/16 a.h.) are within
a few percent of each other for weight. The alternators share the
same frames so in spite of the fact that they put out 2x energy,
they weigh within ounces of each other. All things being
equal except voltage, only drops in wire size contribute greatly
to weight reduction.
Now, if you make a swap to B&C equipment from certified junk,
AND go to 28 v, the weight savings can be spectacular . . .
but it didn't happed because of system voltage change . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Batteries - Warning to Gel battery owners |
servers.net>
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>Remember you cannot jump gel batteries. You will "short" a cell, which
>may not be the technical description but is the effective description.
>
>I paid for three gel batteries before a Roseburg, Oregon welding supply
>dealer answered my question:
> "How do I treat this gel battery?"
> "Just like any other battery," he answered.
> "So it is OK to jump it?"
> "Hell no, you can't jump a gel battery."
I'd be interested in talking to this giver of advice to see
if he understands what a "gel" battery is.
A long time ago, in a galaxy not too far away, someone
wondered if flooded batteries could be a little less sloppy
imitation of Jello.
The idea worked . . . sorta. The batteries were indeed
less sloppy but they still leaked if turned upside down
or if you poked a hole in the side. Further, their low
temperature performance wasn't as good as a flooded battery.
Some years later, another thinker in the ways of batteries
was probably watching a TV commercial for Brawny paper
towels and wondered if a lead-acid battery wouldn't perform
better if the electrolyte remained liquid. Instead of slowing
it down in jello, suppose the liquid were completely contained
in a high surface area medium like paper towel, or perhaps
fiberglas.
(As an aside, consider fabricating a cube of .001"
diameter glass beads. That means 1000 beads along
each edge. The number of beads required to build
the cube would be 1000 x 1000 x 1000 or 1 billion beads.
The surface area of a sphere is 4 x pi x radius squared.
This calculates out to 3.14 x 10 to the minus 6 square
inches/sphere. Multiply this times 1 billion spheres
and we get a total surface area of 3140 square inches of
INTERNAL surface area! This gives you some idea of the
magic that makes an RG battery work. We know that liquids
have a certain affinity for cling to a surface . . . the
above exercise shows how easy it is to get a lot of surface
area in a small volume. Try the excercise again using
1/2 mil diameter beads.)
Further, if the liquid WERE totally contained in a
partially saturated, glass mat . . . what would, or
should happen to bubbles that are driven out of the
water by charging the battery?
This thinking was the birth experience of the gas recombinant,
starved electrolyte, vented yet sealed lead acid battery.
This is NOT a gel-cell device, yet the majority of people
who sell these things don't know it. Gel cells are still
around but RARE. They are popular in some deep-discharge
configurations for wheelchairs, etc.
>I have forgotten to turn off the master switch a couple times since, but
>never had to buy another gel battery after I started disconnecting the two
>battery cables, jumped the starter directly, and after the engine was
>running, reconnected the two cables.
Now, let's consider the physics of "jumpering" any battery
to deal with a totally flat battery. A dead battery will
draw a lot of current from a constant voltage source like
a hefty alternator . . . it doesn't matter what kind of
battery it is. A gel-cell had a higher internal impedance
than this flooded cousins . . . much higher than a modern
RG battery. This means that ANY current, charge or discharge,
results in higher internal losses due to heating. It is
conceivable that a totally dead, gel-cell battery might
suffer ill consequences for having been jumpered to a
vehicle with a fully charged battery and the engine running.
The question for the moment is, what is the true nature of
the battery that started this conversation? You have to go
out of your way to FIND a true gel-cell battery manufactured
sources but they are not the Panasonics, Powersonics,
Hawker, or Yuasas of the battery marketing world. Irrespective
of what any battery seller might say about sealed
lead-acid products, it is most unlikely that the battery is
really a gel-cell. RG batteries are quite tolerant of
high recharge rates and the few seconds of connection needed
to crank an engine are not likely to heat things up even in
a relatively tired battery.
>I have not seen this advice in print, but it was a costly lesson to
>learn buying new gel batteries.
>
>As Ben Franklin said, "Learn from other's mistakes; you do not have time
>to learn them all yourself."
Ben was a critical thinker and he would want to know more
about the conditions that precipitated his unhappy
experience with batteries. I can tell you that
multi-million dollar biz-jets get their batteries (Ni-cad,
RG and flooded) jumpered to ground power carts capable of
thousands of amp output with no ill effects. We don't have
enough data to deduce the cause of our friend's battery
failures. It is insufficient and erroneous to put out a blanket
statement about "jumpering a gel-cell battery" . . . especially
when the product in question probably wasn't a gel-cell device.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Panel power jack for hand-helds . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>What size wire and fuse for cigar lighter
>type 12v outlet? to be used for portable radio or gps.
How come such a hoggy connector? Cigar lighters are
designed for 10A or better . . . and of course their
diameter is commensurate with the size of the lighter
that plugs into them. They're well suited to lighting
cigars but by-in-large, don't make a good electrical
connector in a car much less an airplane.
You can see a photo of some Radio Shack parts that
are much more suited to this task at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/hh_pwr.jpg
Yes, I know it's preferable to have the powered
pins be female as opposed to the male pins . . . these
critters don't come this way. The risk of unintentional
shorting is quite small (the plug body that fits
into the jack housing is all plastic on the end) and
even if you DID get a short, this appication should be
fused at 3A or less.
Cigar lighters depend on friction to hold plug
in place, this connector set uses a metal retaining
ring threaded down on threads for the jack. It doesn't
take much corrosion or tension on a cirgar lighter plug
to make it disconnect . . . the combo I've suggeseted
is smaller and VERY positive engagement both electrically
and mechanically.
Just cut the cigar lighter plug off your hand-held's
power cord and install the new connector. Quite often
you can purchase mating connectors for the external
power jack on your handheld and fabricate a power
cord unique to your airplane . . . most of the time
they need to be shorter than the usual automotive
power cable when used in a cockpit.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel power jack for hand-helds . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>Another thing about cigar lighters - if you must use them , dont mount them
>horizontally where anything can fall into them. A friend of mine (Europa
>Flyer) was on the way back from Prague (to UK) last year. One of his
>electrical circuits kept blowing (it happened to be the one with all the nav
>equipment - in his case it was the glass cockpit display). In the end he had
>to do without the equipment and fly on the basic instruments.
>
>The cause of the problem - you guessed it - a foreign metallic body in the
>cigar lighter !!!
The interesting thing about this anecdote is the fact that
one kind of failure in the system (shorted power jack for
the cockpit hand-held equipment) precipitated other
failures. In this case, too many devices sharing the
same protected circuit.
Builders in love with acres-o-breakers risk a falling out
when the available panel space and/or budget for breaker
dollars run short. The most conservative philosophy for
system architecture dictates a single protected feeder
for each device in the airplane that needs power from the
system.
Fuse-blocks give you the opportunity to have lots of
spare slots for future growth at first flight. While
it's never wrong to pile up on a single breaker from
a fire-safety perspective, it can be bad news when too
many things go dark at the same time.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Batteries - Warning to Gel battery owners servers.net> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>> Robert: Here's one. I have a Hawker, Odyssey Dry Cell battery. Not wet, not
>> Gel and not RG ? The dealer has had one in his pickup truck starting his
>> V-8 for two years now with no problems. Its the same model as mine and the
>> size of the standard 19 Amp. Powersonic. Whats the scoop on this one. Kri
The Odyssey is an RG battery . . . it's assembled with Hawker's
traditional "extra care" that exemplifies their Genesis and other
RG products. Whether or not it's good value remains to be seen in
the marketplace. I've got a 24 a.h. Genesis in my GMC Saffari van
and I've run them for years in other vehicles. It's a nice product
but not magic . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom Batteries again!! |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>Are there any electronic experts out there??. I want a trickle charger for
>this pack, similar to the one that I use on my Futaba radio for ther Radio
>Control models, does anybody have an idea where I could get one for this
>unit. The output on the pack is 12 volts, 600ma.
Go buy any 12v wall-wart from Radio Shack or other consumer electronics
supplier. Fit with plug to fit your radio. Clip one of the wires in the
connection cord and measure the current flow while plugged into your radio's
charger jack. If over 50-60 milliampers, put resistors in this gap to
lower it to that value. This will give you a duplicate capability for
the 12-14 hour recharge power supplies that have been offered with
ni-cad powered systems for decades.
BTW, you can also have the pack reubilt with Ni-Mh cells at up to
1600 mAh. See:
http://www.batteriesamerica.com/newpage3.htm
Then you need to adjust your wall-wart for 150-175 mA.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Batteries - Warning to Gel battery owners |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>> RG batteries are quite tolerant of
>> high recharge rates and the few seconds of connection needed
>> to crank an engine are not likely to heat things up even in
>> a relatively tired battery.
>>
>
>That's good to know. I recently jumped mine and can attest it suffered no
>apparent ill effects. At least I think it is an RG Battery. It's a "Gill
>Aero 30 Sealed Battery" which Aircraft Spruce terms a "Gell Cell Battery".
>However, I would infer from Bob's comments that it's really an RG.
>
>I do have one nagging concern about my Gill Aero 30, assuming it's really an
>RG: Aircraft Spruce's catalogue has some language in it (see p. 362 under
>"Sealed immobilized Electrolyte Batteries (Gel Type)") suggesting that the
>charging voltage must be precisely regulated at 13.8 v. +- 0.2 volts to
>avoid shortening the life of these batteries. They recommend a $200
>regulator to accomplish this. My question is, is this true? Does it apply
>only to bona fide gel cells or does it apply also to RG batteries? My
>charging system charges at about 14.5 v. Do I need a $200.00 regulator?
>Finally, if I forget and leave the master on and need to recharge the
>battery in the hanger, do I need a special charger to avoid zonking it? The
>Aircraft Spruce Catalogue implies that this is the case for "gell cell and
>sealed batteries" --see the write up for the "Electronic Power Systems"
>charger, same page.
The conventional wisdom being circulated conforms to
the fondest wishes of the folk who build and sell batteries.
"Treat my product with tender loving care and it will
give you the best performance possible." This always
begs the question, "how far outside the envelope of
TLC will the product still provide satisfactory performance?"
We know that an RG battery (or any other lead-acid battery)
will eventually achieve 100% charge when maintained at 13.8
volts at room temperature. We also know that automotive and
aircraft OEMs have favored 14.2 to 14.4 volts as a level
that speeds up recovery of a battery's state of charge soon
after the engine starts . . . the higher voltage also favors
performance in cold weather.
A couple of years ago, I purchased a used GMC Saffari van
and until September a year ago, had no occasion to check on
the health of the electrical system. When the flooded battery
barfed, I stuck in a used and several times deep-cycled RG
battery I had purchased from B&C to power portable test
equipment in some testing I was doing on the Beechjet. The
battery was just laying around the shop so I decided to
use it up in my van.
After installation, I did a quick check of the charging
voltage and was astounded to find it running 15.1 volts!
Hmmmmm . . . how long had it been that high? Did the
elevated voltage barf the flooded battery? The date
code on the flooded battery was over three years old.
The regulator was built in to a 100A alternator and I
wasn't eager to replace the thing. I decided to leave it
and see what happened.
14 months later, the alternator barfed and I had to replace
it. The new charging voltage is 14.4 volts. The RG battery
is still there and about to enter its second winter
of operation. I also know that when we tested the RG
batteries for B&C's STC, one of the tests the FAA asked
for was to show resistance to thermal runaway. This involves
putting 16.0 volts on the battery and see what happens.
Well . . . not much. The battery soaked up some more charge
but in less than an hour, the current going into the battery
dropped to less than 100 milliamperes. The battery warmed up
less than 1 degree C.
Now, all of the above is anecdotal. The experience I
can share speaks to observations on two batteries. However,
there is a strong suggestion from these observations that
RG batteries are not fragile creatures to be pampered
lest they sigh and die.
The short answer to the question above is, "no" a $200
regulator is not required . . . it may "help" but I'm
beginning to suspect that "helping" means 24 months of
service as opposed to perhaps 22 months of service. The
real bottom line of battery reliability in airplanes is
to KNOW what it's capacity is by either periodic testing
after one year -OR- periodic replacement at cycles which
insure e-bus capacity equal to or greater than fuel
capacity. The real trick here is consdiered preventative
maintenance, not agonizing over how well your regulator
works.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [c-a] Panel power jack for hand-helds . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>>
>> >What size wire and fuse for cigar lighter
>> >type 12v outlet? to be used for portable radio or gps.
>>
>I just had to replace the fuse of the cigar lighter in my Caddillac.
>It's 20A.
>
But don't forget . . . fuses and breakers protect wire.
Wire carries current for the loads you anticipate running
from the circuit. A hand-held radio would be very hard
pressed to draw more than 1 amp from any source. Wiring
your hand held power jack with 22AWG wire fused at 2A
will be quite adequate to the task for which the jack
was installed. That is unless you plan to light cigaretts
from it when not using the radios in which case you'll
need 14AWG and 15A . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 18 Amp Powersonic |
ear.navy.mil>
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> I just experienced a battery failure with my new 18 Amp Powersonic.
>Yesterday, I stopped by the airport and flipped on the "master" to find
>almost total darkness on everything. The battery had a grand total of 5 VDC
>indicating voltage (no, I did not leave my master on). I got out the
>battery charger and set it to 12VDC @ 15 AMPS for about 30 minutes or so
>then switched it to 12VDC @ 2 AMPS for several hours. At that time, I
>showed 12.2 VDC static on the EIS. An hour later, I showed 12 VDC static.
>I've been told that I toasted the battery when
>I first put the charger at 15 AMPS. Also, I should "NEVER" select more than
>2 AMPS at the charger. The battery already had a problem so, charging
>wasn't the main cause (that was the first time I've ever put a charger on
>the battery. My Key West charging system is putting out 14.2 VDC normally.
I'm not sure this is a valid deduction. By-in-large, vent-regulated,
sealed lead-acid, recombinant-gas batteries are quite tolerant of
high rate recharge.
Consider that "charging" reverses a chemical reaction by pushing electrons
into as system that was discharged by pulling electrons out. Starting
and engine can take hundreds of amps of current flow (albeit for seconds)
that causes a whole lot of molecules to change state as they give up
their available electrons. The battery is not a perfect device . . . it
has some internal resistance that adds to external resistances in the
system (like wire, contactors, bolted joints, etc) to reduce the amount
of energy available to crank the engine.
The VERY low internal resistance of RG batteries is what makes them
so powerful for their size. This same internal resistance has an
effect on recharging too . . . some of the energy that might otherwise
be used to trip some molecules to their charged state will warm the
battery up internally . . . resistors do one and one thing only with
energy that moves through them . . . warm up.
The admonition "never select more that 2 amps at the charger" argues
with how things work in the airplane (or any other vehicle). As soon
as the engine starts, the bus voltage goes to whatever the regulator is
set for . . . current flowing into the battery's chemistry is whatever
it is going to be at that bus voltage. If the battery is only partially
discharged due to normal cranking, the current goes up pretty high because
the battery's internal resistance is still quite low and it will readily
accept charging. If the battery is flat from a total discharge, connecting
it to a constant voltage like a running alternator may not produce much
inital charge . . . the battery's internal resistance is much higher
when it's completely discharge.
The internal resistance can do only one thing with the energy you're
trying to stuff back into the battery . . . get warm. This
is a transient condition . . As the battery begins to charge,
the resistance drops which improves on the energy conversion
efficiency. Internal heating during initial phases of charging
a totally flat battery can be detrimental to the cells in some
cases: Very small batteries (camcorder, cellphone, etc) may have
some initial charging limits due to their inherent higher internal
resistances and low mass. Batteries used to crank engines are pretty
hard to
warm up and much more tolerant of increased losses during rapid
recharge.
Consider the case where an engine has been hard to start and you've
used up most of the battery's capacity trying to get it going. When
you finally do get it started, the bus jumps to 14.2 (or wherever the
regulator is set) and recharging of the battery will begin . . . limited
only by internal resistance of the battery and the output rating of
your alternator . . . sometimes this current is well over 20 amps
even for a small battery.
The concern about battery chargers is how well their voltage is
regulated while a totally discharged battery is getting its chemistry
awake and ready to go to work. Unless the charger mentioned soared
really up there . . . like over 15-16 volts during initial phases
of recharge, I think it unlikely that the recharge scenario described
toasted the battery . . . the way to check is to put a voltmeter
on the battery and watch it for the first few minutes of rechaged.
Depending on voltage regulation built into the charger it MAY
go pretty high initially (like over 15 volts) but it should come
down in ten minutes or so as the battery beings stirring back to
life.
I think most RG batteries roll belly-up because they loose some of
the water from a cell. Remember, these batteries have very little
moisture in them . . . the fiberglas separators are only 80-90%
saturated when the battery is new. If the factory was having a bad-
battery-day and didn't get the cells wet enough, the battery may
be pretty fragile. Also, the cell might be compromised and liquid
may have been expelled causing pre-mature failure. The battery
in this story wasn't run down by leaving a load on it . . . it was
DOA for a routine start up. This suggests the battery had already
departed to where all good batteries go when they die . . . this
makes charger behavior irrelevant to the story.
It would be interesting to do a diagnosis on how this battery
failed. If you're not going to turn it back in for recycling
and/or warranty claim, I'd like to have it to disect.
As an interesting aside to this discussion, check out Bolder
TMF batteries and some of the things coming over the hill
at: http://www.boldertmf.com/news/news_details.asp?ID=25
These are VERY tiny cells with VERY low internal resistances.
If there was ever a seal lead-acid battery that might favor
being pampered, this has to be a good candidate. Yet they
are finding their way into some pretty heavy-duty applications.
They are not going to be beneficiaries of smart charging
systems. They'll get stuck on a constant voltage bus and the
recharge current will be what it will be . . .
I have seen a few battery sites caution about rapid recharge
of RG batteries . . . Hawker (Genesis, Oddysey, Cyclon battery
guys) doesn't caution the system designer to pamper these batteries
with itty-bitty chargers. In fact, there's a statement in
the engineering manual specifically allowing the battery to
be recharged at whatever rate it will accept on a constant
voltage bus. I think the cautions come from dealers and
distributors that don't understand their products (like
calling them "gel cells") . . . and may be looking for
ways to mitigate their warranty hassles . . . there's nothing
WRONG with soft recharging but it's not necessary either.
When in doubt . . . go to the engieering data for the brand
of battery you're working with and see what the manufacturer
says. Dealers are among the most unreliable sources of good
info on batteries.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric on a Budget... a proposal |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> . . . . I want an IFR capable, all electric
>plane. The only architecture that has an automatic full scale backup uses
>the B&C SD-20 with their standby regulator that senses when the main bus
>voltage drops off due to a primary alternator failure and thereby gets
>activated. No thoughts, no pilot action, seamless transition, lots of money
>and weight. Overkill for my application. The architecture I am proposing
>does have many options that provide for three independent pathways to power
>the essential bus.
>Where did I end up on this issue? I am buying all the parts to "make it
>so." I have also sent a hard copy of this architecture to Bob Nuckolls
>asking for feedback. I still am a year or so away from completion so all is
>subject to change based on better information.
>> Anyway, here are my thoughts: what you are proposing should work, and it
>> looks like you have planned for most contingencies, but I *personally*
>> still have a problem with ANY of these multi-bus approaches...
simplicity. My
>> thinking is that any sort of electrical malfunction or failure is a
>> stressful event. It will undoubtedly happen at an inopportune time thus
>> adding to the stress. I have experienced enough stressful times when
>> flying . . .
"most contingencies?" . . . "three independent pathways?"
Guys . . . you're letting decades of "dark and stormy night"
stories played out in certified aircraft drive unfounded
fears and scenearios to the top of your architecture decisions.
Virtually every known reason for an electrical system malfunction
has been addressed in the variety of system architectures
we've illustrated over the years. Yes, things MIGHT break
but there is no reason for any failure of an electrical system
component to precipitate an electrical emergency. Please review
chapter 18 in our book. You guys are building the best airplanes
to have ever flown. Certified ships smoke a lot because they
are BUILT and MAINTAINED that way. Further, they feature components
overhaulable only to ORIGNAL configuation as designed in 1965.
Please do your best to use our experience in certified aviation
to evolve AWAY from their mistakes . . . not ACCOMODATE them.
It's not difficult. Before you start pushing things around on the
wiring diagrams, tell me of any single failure event with
any of our power distribution diagrams that creates a tense
situation in flight that has no simple resolution. If you have
good reason to depart from the published suggestions, then
we need to fix the drawings.
Let's do this like critical thinking scientists, not pilots
and mechanics educated and trained to government standards.
This isn't a "not invented here" protest rather an invitation
to participate in critical review of contemporary thinking
to advance the state of our art . . . Bottom line is, wire
your airplane any way you wish . . . but be aware that lots
of folks are listening in. I get a couple of wiring diagrams
a month from folks asking, "what's wrong with THIS way?"
If we don't have solid advice to give, let's fix the advice
before we create dozens of variations on a theme based on
nothing better than our distrust of aviation hardware
and a lack of understanding about how to fix it.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Lancaster Seminar Date Set |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
The Lancaster weekend seminar date has been set at Nov 18/19, 2000.
Facilities arrangments are being finalized and folks that have already
signed up will be asked to re-confirm their reservations and to watch
the website for published driving directions to the program facility
along with a list of nearyby motels for those who need them.
Anyone who has not considered taking advantage of this program (or
others around the country like it) are invited to check out the
seminars description and sign-up page at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars.html
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Special AUTOCAD offer to our friends on the lists . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
If you'd like to get your feet wet with the world's most
popular PC based CAD system REALLY cheap, check out . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/acadr12.html
This will stay up on the website for a few days only and
is not linked by any other pages on the internet.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lancaster Seminar Date Set |
| From: | "E. D. Yoes" <eyoes(at)stic.net> |
Lancaster where?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lancaster Seminar Date Set |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>Lancaster where?
>
Lancaster CA, see:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars.html
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Good wiring practice |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>Do you have any views about locating starter and battery contactors on the
>cabin side of the firewall? Some RV builders are doing or considering this.
>However the counter argument is that if one fails it would dump toxic smoke
>into the cockpit.
The more compelling reason for putting starter contactor
on firewall is to reduce number of firewall penetrations
of FAT wires . . . you tie the alternator into the system
using in-line fused jumper on the powered side of the battery
contactor (as per diagrams on website and in book). If
you put contactor inside, both starter and alternator wires
have to come through firewall.
>I guess you will have a good view on failure rates, and will know for sure
>whether it's possible for them to create toxic fumes.
>
A whole lot of decisions have been driven by the
toxic fumes scenario in a machine where one is
several orders of magntitude more likely to break
a sweat because of failure of of some appliances due
to poor system architecture and lack of backups.
It's sweating pilots that are more likely to make
poor decisions or find themselves tasked beyond
skills and equipment . . . if you don't smoke in
the cockpit, don't upholster your seats in
double-knit nylon material and use plenty of fuses
to protect little wires, the liklihood of serious
smoke is very close to zero.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | New Power Distribution Diagram |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
I've had several requests over the past few weeks to incorporate
separate concepts described with individual articles into a power
distribution diagram illustrating their relationships to the whole
airplane.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/errata.html
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Good wiring practice - ERROR CORRECTION |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>>Do you have any views about locating starter and battery contactors on the
>>cabin side of the firewall? Some RV builders are doing or considering this.
>>However the counter argument is that if one fails it would dump toxic smoke
>>into the cockpit.
>
> The more compelling reason for putting starter contactor
> on firewall is to reduce number of firewall penetrations
> of FAT wires . . . you tie the alternator into the system
> using in-line fused jumper on the powered side of the STARTER [was
"battery"]
> contactor (as per diagrams on website and in book). If
> you put contactor inside, both starter and alternator wires
> have to come through firewall.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Lancaster CA seminar - Postponed |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
I'm sorry to have to announce that only 5 of the ordiginal
35 people who signed up for the Lancaster program have
confirmed their resesrvations. I'm now past the deadline
for getting inexpensive airfares and renting the meeting
room facilities.
We'll be e-mailing all of the confirmed reservation holders
today. I'm going to pick a new date after the first of
the year and see what happens the second time around.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Sticking relay with B&C starter. |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>Benoit
>
>There are two parts to a relay and these must not be confused.
>
>1) a coil - to activate a high current switch
>2) the high current switch
>
>The diode is used on the coil to stop the reverse current pulse, this only
happens when the coil is released and does not effect the switch part of
the relay.
>
>If the switch part of the relay cannot handle the current being drawn
>by the starter it will have a tendency to weld close or stick.
Not the whole story. It's true that contacts overheat
and degrade when loaded with too much current but 90%
of the time it's not an overcurrent issue. As I write
these words, I've got a test setup running on my workbench
to deduce the reason for sticking relays in the roll trim
system of a bizjet . . . current rating: 5A, motor draw: 1A
life of relay in service: 100-200 hrs and then they stick.
>The best option my be to get a relay with a higher current rating.
>Check the current rating of the starter and multiply this by 1.5 to 2
>(Safety factor), then look for a relay to handle this current.
I've had customers force me to drop a 5A relay in a slot
where I had tested and qualified a 2A relay to tens of thousands
of cycles over full temperature range for the system. My protests
went unheaded and the government blessed DER's signed off on the
change without further testing. They reasoned that if 2A was
"good", 5A was "better".
Within weeks of delivery of first units to the customer and before
the airplanes could be delivered to customers, 5A relays began to
stick . . .
Here's what started this thread . . . .
>>>> Benot LECOQ <lecoqben@club-internet.fr> 10/25/00 11:30AM >>>
> Hello from France
>
> I still get lots of fun flying around my new Cozy and everything is fine.
>
> Nevertherless there a few squawks that come up from time to time.The biggy
>for me is the starter relay that is sticking after releasing the start push
>button after engine start from time to time.This of course keeps the starter
>engaged with the engine running and you have to shut everything down to
>avoid any damage.Up to now, I had no real trouble with coping with that but
>it starts to be a real hassle.
> Here is what I tried:
> - Apply aeroelectric connection recommandations: big cable gauge and a
>diode to minimize the spark.
> - Change the relay a few time but after a while it starts again.
> The configuration is :
> - Lycoming O360 A3a,
> - Lightweight BC starter, wiring for the start part per Nat's
>recommandations including aeroelectric connection features,
> - 2 switches for the ignition system: one is grounding a magnetoand the
>other one switching on and off a Jeff rose electronic ignition.
> - A push button triggering the starter relay.
> I hear from a friend that the BC starter is pulling a lot more amps on
the
>battery than other starters and occasionnally triggers a big spark inside
>the relay that would lead quickly to a sticking relay.
> As I said I included a diode between the ground and the output of the
relay
>toward the starter (obviously in the inverted direction )to try to minimize
>the spark inside the relay. It looks like it does not play its role.
I don't have enough information yet.
Scenario 1: Is the sticking "relay" a starter contactor with fat wires
to carry starter current and light wiring to accept control voltage via
the start switch? What kind of contactor? Did you purchase it from either
B&C or from AeroElectric Connection? Is the system wired such that the
built in into the B&C starter is jumpered to the main terminal as-supplied
from B&C?
If the the "relay" being discussed is a starter contactor external
to the B&C starter then I suspect it's not a device purchased from
either Bill or myself and is not rated for the task. The contactors
we sell have been installed by the hundreds and I'm yet to be notified
of any sticking problems . . . although it CAN happen, we would not
expect it in less than hundreds of hours of service.
Scenario 2: Is the "relay" an auxiliary device used to take advantage
of the starter's built in contactor? Many folk have used some 30A
rated, plastic relays as an amplifier to buffer the built in starter
contactor's horrible inrush currents. See:
www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
Even tho these relays are rated sufficiently to withstand the high
inrush requirements, the load they switch is VERY inductive and has
a strong potential for burning the contacts of the aux control
relay. Going to a 70A rated relay would not solve the problem.
Missing or in-appropriately applied arc suppression is the
cause of problems.
Both problems are easy to fix. Benot, it would help if you could
fax me a sketch of your wiring so that I can accurately deduce
the problem and recommend a solution. Send it to 316.685.8617
and I'll publish the diagnosis and prescription on the lists.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sticking relay with B&C starter. |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>There are two more considerations in connection with solenoids that you
>should be aware of.
>1) If you have low battery voltage, like too much resistance in the line,
>or maybe one of the old-style lead-acid batteries, or do too much
>cranking, you can weld the contacts together.
Quite true . . . and it can happen to ANY style contactor.
>2) The commonly used solenoids (Wicks et al) have bolt heads inside for the
>contacts. If you twist the posts by tightening the electrical cables too
>tight on the outside, the bolt head on the inside can turn, so instead of
>the contacts being the flat of the bolthead, it is one of the points, and
>that greatly reduces the contact area, and could cause welding of the
>contacts.
Not sure about what Wicks is selling if it looks like:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/s701-1l.jpg
then IT IS important to hold the nut up next to the contactor
shell and keep it from turning while you tighten the wiring
nut. ANY rotation of the threaded stud will render the contactor
trash.
If the contactor looks like:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/s702-1l.jpg
Then the studs are captive in the contactors molded housing.
With this style, twisting the stud will break the housing
but at least you KNOW when you've cranked down on it too hard.
>B and C Specialties has a special contactor where the posts can't turn, and
>it avoids this problem. Benoit, would you like Bill Bainbridge to send you
>one of these which is garaunteed not to stick?
Don't know about "guaranteed" but they're really hard to stick.
However, starters with failed wiring inside or low battery
voltage can weld the best contactor . . .
> To amplify what I said in one of my earlier posts, the battery
>solenoid is energized when you turn on the master switch, and nothing else
>should be on at that time, so you aren't switching any current.
Most airplanes have several amps of things that are on all the
time but a battery contactor is generally rated to SWITCH 70
amps or better. Normal bus loads don't errode the battery
master contactor to any significant degree.
> . . . .But when
>you energize the starter solenoid, you could be switching as much as 600
>amps, which is the cranking power of the battery. That is why the starter
>circuit goes directly from the battery to the starter . . .
This is not recommended. All of our drawings and virtually every
certified airplane takes starter current through the battery master
contactor . . . if the starter contactor DOES stick, then the
battery master gives you a way to shut things down. While a battery
master contactor is rated to SWITCH 70 amps, it will nicely CARRY
the 200-250 amps common to starting an engine. I've had builders
try to use one of my S701-1 battery contactors as a starter contactor and
didn't get very good service life . . . however the battery contactor
was ALWAYS there to bring a potentially bad situation under control.
> . . . and not through the power bus and the 50 amp circuit breaker.
Not sure what breaker this is . . . some folks have a fat breaker
in their alternator b-lead output to the bus. By-in-large, there's
no practical application for fat breakers anywhere else in the system.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Sticking Contactors . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>There is something else to consider in installing solenoids (besides making
>sure you have the right one in each application). You should install them
>so that gravity assists the magnetic force in holding the contacts
>together. Do not install them upside down!
I recall a story circulated around OSH about ten years ago. Seems
some show pilot landed and found a chewed up starter ring
gear and his starter contactor was stuck shut. Some arm-chair
engineering on the spot deduced that high g-loading during aerobatic
maneuvers were responsible for "teasing" the contacts in flight
and causing welding much like low battery voltage. The word
went out like wildfire . . . tho shalt mount thy contactors
UPSIDE down so that positive g-loading would not tend to close
an open relay.
The physics don't bear out any particular admonitions for orientation
in the airplane. Once energized, a contactor has about 10x the force
holding it closed than it takes to first move the contacts from a fully
open position. Since a battery contact is ALWAYS closed, it's likely
that you'll pull the wings off your airplane before you force the
contactor open during a flight maneuver.
Starter contactors (like our S702-1) have extra heavy springs
to open them (to offset sticking tendencies) and extra heavy
coils to close them (to offset contact bounce and subsequent
damage from arcing while closing the high current load). G-loading
effects on these contactors is even less significant than for
the S701-1 continuous duty part. Further, starter contactors are
normally mounted on firewall with base on vertical plane. This
orientation puts g-loading sensitivity parallel to the longtitudinal
axis of the airplane . . . don't fly into the side of a mountain, you
might cause your starter contactor to close when you didn't want it
to.
By in large, all of the stories being circulated about contactor
orientation and are not founded in the application or physics of
the matter. IF the airshow pilot was using a poorly choosen device
as a starter contactor (like our S701-1) AND it was oriented
such that gravity helps close or keep the contacts closed, then
it's thinkable that a 10g maneuver might have teased his starter
contacts closed in flight. If he were using a REAL starter
contactor installed accoding to recommendations, it would never
happen. Maneuvering g-loads in airplanes you and I like to fly
are not a risk to your various contactors.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sticking relay |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> Thanks for the overwhelming quantity of answers. It looks like it might
be
>a real problem.
> I will answer to everybody in one message.
> To be more precise on my configuration:
> - The first starter relay I was using was the one sold by ACS (p/n 22735
on
>their catalog) for homebuilders .It started to stick lets say after 3 months
>of my initial testing ( I was already flying by that time) and was the one
>used for the initial start of the engine when it was sometime a bit
>difficult to start with a low battery.
> - The second relay was bought in France to a company called Aerostock
in Le
>bourget airport. It started sticking after 15 days of use. I am now flying
>quite often and the engine is firing very quickly and very nicely due to the
>jeff rose ignition with a fully loaded battery ( I am flying a lot).
> -I took it out and found out it a was a 24v relay. So I went back to
>Aerostock and they changed it for a 12v one. The one I got looks very much
>alike the master relay ( p/n 111-226 in ACS catalog). It started not doing
>its job after a week.
This explains it. NONE of heavy duty contactors in that package
are suited to starter contactor service . . . for a time,
RBM Controls, later White-Rogers, now Stancore built a series of
intermittant duty relays with heavier coil wires and stronger closure
forces but the way that contactor is designed internally, it just
doesn't get the contact PRESSURE that modern automotive starter
contactors enjoy.
The contactor we sell (S702-1) is of this family of devices.
> I know have two plans to attack that problem:
> 1-A friend of mine gave me a brand new ACS 22735 relay he had in his
>hangar. I might put that one on and keep the diodes that I had added on the
>previous relay ( The first relay had a diode between the coil and ground but
>not between the output and ground).
Our conactor has the arc supression diode built into the contactor
coil assembly.
> 2-I recently bought a renault truck starter relay which looks impressive
>(not to say massive) and very strong. I did not use it yet because I
>measured the coil resistance and found out that it was 4 ohms. This would
>mean that I would be pulling at least 3 amps through the triggering push
>button and given the size of that button this would be way too much. So I
>can decide to use it but I would have to trigger the coil of that new relay
>through another relay, maybe the previous one that could accept that 3 amp
>current easily. Is this overkill?
No, the fact that you read the low resistance is FIRST indication that
this is an intermittant duty contactor probably designed for higher
contact pressures therefore much more suited to working with starters.
Our S702-1 contactor is also a 4 ohm coil . . . The starter push-button
we recommend is heaftier than most . . . or you can rig your magnetos
to use switches and built the starter function into the switches. This
is illustrated several ways in the diagrams at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/R9Z_0400.pdf
> I would like to thank for the LED advice. It is a very good one because
I
>had already implemented that in my bird and this is what allowed me to do
>the identification of the problem.In fact , every switch has a Led that
>lights up when it is on and the information is picked up trough a wire that
>is coming from the back of the equipment the given switch is supposed to
>energise.I like that set up a lot because I have an emergency power switch
>that power a very minimum of what is needed ( to cover the alternator
>failure) and when the switch is on "alternate" the LED's give me exactly
>what is on.
Do you also have some form of automatic disabling of the alternator
in case of a failed regulator runaway? This needs to be an automatic
function that operates in tens of milliseonds. Pilot monitoring of
any instrumentation with the hope of adequately controlling a runaway
> Well, this is were I am . It is late now and I am going to bed as you
guys
>are now working.
> May be I will find out more to morrow morning with maybe a direct advice
>from Bill bainbridge. Just burry in mind that I am now so happy to fly that
>bird that waiting 3 or more days for a part coming from the states is too
>much. I want to fly to-morrow except if the wheather is bad (it might
>happen).
Bill is going to tell you that you need a REAL starter contactor like
his, like mine or probably like the one you just bought . . . however,
it's possible that our contactors are smaller and lighter. My S701-1
is 280 gm and fits inside a 6 x 6 x 6 cm cube. Bill's is very close
to the same dimensions.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Some thoughts spike catcher diodes . . . |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
A reader comments on the practice of putting diodes across the coil
of a contactor . .
> A diode connected in this way is usually suggested to clamp the inductive
> voltage spike resulting from de-energizing the relay coil. The problem is
> that it provides a path for the current caused by the collapsing magnetic
> field. The net result is that the amount of time it takes to open the
> relay *increases*. This exacerbates the issue of a sticking relay in that
> a slower release time causes more arcing at the contacts.
Yeeeaaahhh BUT . . . I've never been able to document much change
in the contact spreading velocity of the contactors we sell and
recommend when a diode is included in the contactor's coil circuit.
I have been able to document wear and tear on the switch that controls
the contactor and it's much worse if the diode is left off.
On starter contactors, the spring tension that opens contacts
is MUCH larger than for the continuous duty contacts. Further,
given the higher coil current, it's more important that this
stored energy be calmly dealt with than with battery contactors.
Hence, our starter contactors come with the diode BUILT IN. I
have to believe that the folks who make these by the millions
for ground based vehicles find this a useful thing to do.
Battery contactors are generally opened up with VERY mild loads
on the main terminals . . . so again, it's more useful to tame
the contactor's stored coil energy than to be concerned with
contact opening velocity.
> A better way is to dump the current of the collapsing field into the
> battery. You can do this by connecting the diode across the starter
> switch (cathode band to the battery side of the switch) rather than the
> coil. This is a higher impedance path, and it allows the coil magnetic
> field to collapse faster while still clamping the voltage.
Not so. I've done an article on spike catching diodes and posted
it to:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spikecatcher.pdf
It's rather large (500K .pdf file) and I appologize for the
size but it has 4 pictures of oscilloscope traces taken from
test setups on my bench this morning. If you want to get the
straight skinny on this topic, I'll suggest it's worth the
download time.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>I hope I don't come across as a nut case here but I could use some advice.
>I am having a grand time building the tail section of an RV9-A. (Wings are
>on order) I am an expert woodworker - so I am not new to tools or
>craftsmanship. However, as I build this plane I catch myself becoming
>paranoid about the quality and safety of what I am doing. With each hole I
>drill and rivit I place, following the plans to the letter, I get tense
that
>if I screw up, someone could die. Is this normal?
I open my weekend seminars with the observation that amateur
airplane builders are fabricating the finest airplanes to have
ever flown. I support that statment as follows:
The folk pounding rivets on an assembly line of an airplane
factory would love to be doing anything DIFFERENT that what
they are doing now. If something gets bent, a little whack here
or some prybar there might make that rivet go into the hole
with a few SMALL hammer whacks . . . if someting breaks,
two supervisors and three inspectors will stand around discussing
the MINIMUM effort needed to LEAGALY push that airplane out the
door.
I've visted some builder's shops where the airplane under
construction had some pretty scary craftsmanship . . . further,
the builder was making modifications to "correct some perceived
screwups in the original design." I'm pleased to note that after
10 or 12 years, those airplanes are STILL under construction
and not much further along than when I last saw them.
You guys are doing a good job because you DO worry. If you don't
know about some aspect of the task, you get on the list, call
another bulder, call the factory, etc. etc. IF and WHEN your
airplane breaks ground for the first time, the MAJOR risks
to it's success will be from silly mistakes (cotter key left
out, fuel line fitting not tightened, pilot skills poorly
adapted to type, etc.) . . . your risk to suffering an
consequence of poor craftsmanship is nil.
The mechanics of putting an airplane together is very conducive
to the "look and feel" method of inspection. If it's smooth,
went together without hammering or sawing, then the completed
task is 100% likely to meet the intent of the designer.
It's right that you question what you don't understand. At some
time in the past we were all right where you are. You're
in right crowd for acquiring understanding and your going
to do just fine. At some time in the future, I predict
your biggest "worry" is picking the right color scheme for
paint and upholstery . . . after all you don't want a machine
of this caliber pulling up to the ramp looking like a teenager's
street rod . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Our website is down . . . |
Our website was mis-behaving off and on several days last week
and now has been down 100% since late Saturday night. I've been
getting a ton of e-mail from folks who have been trying to access
it unsuccessfully. I'll publish a notice when we're back up.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <rjslade(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Our website is down . . . |
Bob,
You seem to have more than your share of web site trouble.
I just helped Jeff Russell move his site to http://valueweb.net
I've been using these guys for about 3 years with four or five domains.
They've never been down yet.
Moving is quick and fairly simple.
Regards,
John Slade, Cozy MKIV #757, progress: http://kgarden.com/cozy
West Palm Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Our website is down . . . |
>
>Bob,
>You seem to have more than your share of web site trouble.
>I just helped Jeff Russell move his site to http://valueweb.net
>I've been using these guys for about 3 years with four or five domains.
>They've never been down yet.
>Moving is quick and fairly simple.
>Regards,
>John Slade, Cozy MKIV #757, progress: http://kgarden.com/cozy
>West Palm Beach, FL
>
Thanks for the info . . . My yearly contract with current
host is up next month. I'm going to do something DIFFERENT.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Open Barrel Pin Connectors |
My 4 month arm-wrestling match with the supplier
has ended in victory . . . the tools we thought we
were going to get back in August are here. Whether
you use our tool or not, here's a comic book on
installing the open barrel pins as used in Mate-n-Lock,
Molex, and D-subminature connectors.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Use of Proximity type switches in aircraft? |
>Good-day all- looking to the many fabulous engineering talents within this
>forum- Does anyone have any experience with inductive proximity switches
>used as limit switches within an aircraft? Wondering if anyone who has
>tried prox switches in aircraft if they have ever had interference with the
>performance of the switch while operating radio or other equipment? I have
>experience using these switches in the development of tooling and machines
>within a dirty and vibrating environment but not around other possible noise
>creators like radios or the like.
I think your risks are low. I've used these devices
for decades in some hi-end aircraft and industrial
applications with no difficulties . . . however,
having said that, I've NOT tested any of these things
in the RF lab . . . The major threat is from transmitters.
Play with one on the bench while irradiating it with
a hand-held and rubber-duck antenna from about a foot away.
If keying the transmitter doesn't affect operation, it's
probably going to be just fine in your airplane. This
kind of exposure from a handheld is MUCH more than
it would see in a typical installation.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Installation |
>I have a question concerning the ELT installation. The installation manual
>for our Ameri-King Model AK-450 ELT says "The Antenna must be within 20
>degrees of vertical when the aircraft is in a normal flight attitude." It
>goes on to say "The Antenna should be placed a minimum distance of 3 feet (1
>meter) from any vertically polarized communication Antennas (i.e. Antennas
>radiating in the 118-137 MHz band)."
>My understanding of the ELT use is that it would never be used in flight so
>then why would their be a requirement for it to be installed "within 20
>degrees of vertical"? Further, it is not likely that the aircraft would be
>in such an attitude when use of the ELT was necessary.
On top of that, a recent article in AOPA Pilot suggests that
ELTs figure in a TINY percentage of aircraft accidents wherein
lives are saved . . . like under 10% if I recall. The numbers
COULD be better but the hardware reliability is poor and the
technology used to track downed aircraft is antiquated.
>The other question is why should it be placed 3 feet from the VHF antenna?
>Again, the VHF antenna would presumably not be used at the same time as the
>ELT antenna.
>
>I would presume that the ELT installation requirements would be only for
>certificated aircraft and not applicable to home-builts. However, some
times
>there may be some wisdom in certification requirements.
Excellent critical review questions. In my not so humble opinion,
install it any way that works but plan your actions such that
you don't need to depend on the system to be useful.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
list-avionics ,
list-ez , list-glasair ,
list-lancair ,
list-rocket , list-rv8
| Subject: | Heated pitot tube good price |
Hello listers,
I sent out a post not long ago saying I will continue to sell the AN5814
heated pitot tube at the old price of $199 until all of my current stock
is gone, then my price must go up due to increased price from the
manufacture. I still have a few. First come first serve. They will go
fast now.
I also sell the mounting bracket kits for mounting this and the
PH502-12CR heated pitot tube. Of course I sell this pitot also. To see
these products and others I offer look at my website. The address
is: http://www.gretzaero.com
I hope to hear from you soon.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | A Season of Giving - Please Support Your List! |
Dear Listers,
As my good friend Al Mojzisik from the RV-List forum has pointed out in
his humorous style this morning, its time for the Annual List Fund
Raiser! For those that are new to the Lists since last year, I'd like
to just mention what its all about. I have always run the List services
here completely free of charge to the members. This includes the Email
Lists, Archive Search Engine, as well as some of the other goodies found
on the servers. My policy has always been that I will never charge a
'fee' to sign up for any of the email Lists and I have also turned down
a number potentially lucrative of 'commercial' offers to provide
advertising space either on the various web pages or on in each of the
outgoing emails. I have always graciously declined these offers,
however, because I have felt that the friendly, homey feeling of the
commercial-free site was very appealing. I have also felt that offering
the services here for free is the best way to stimulate the greatest
membership, and in my opinion, this is the most important element in the
success of a forum such as this. So, once again, I will restate my
commitment to always keeping all of the services here on the Matronics
servers free to everyone.
That being said, I must also say that running this system is far from
free for me, however. I am continually trying to provide the best, most
reliable service possible and have continued to upgrade the systems as
necessary to maintain or improve the level of service I provide. Quite
aside from the "real costs" involved in the maintenance of a service
like this, however, is the time commitment necessary to keep everything
running and time required to produce new and improved software
enhancements to make the whole experience more enjoyable for everyone.
On the average I spend 10 to 20 hours a week handling subscription
requests and related problems, maintaining the existing computer code
base, and developing new utilities for the List community.
The whole List site (web server and email server) continue to run across
the 768kb/sec DSL-based Internet connection. Connections to the servers
have generally been pretty reliable and performance has been good. Up
time for the connection has approached the 99% mark.
If you regularly enjoy the services provided here, I would ask that you
make a Contribution in any amount in which you are comfortable. Your
Contribution will be used to directly support the continued operation
and improvement of all these services, and as always, I will turn your
Contributions back into more upgrades and improvements. It is truly an
investment in the future of these Lists.
To make a SSL Secure Web Contribution using your Visa or MasterCard,
please go to the following URL and follow the simple instructions:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html
To make a Contribution by check, please send US Mail to:
c/o Matt Dralle
Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
As I have done in the past, I will post a "Contributors List" at the end
of the Fund Raiser, personally acknowledging each and everyone that has
generously made a Contribution this year!
Finally, I just want to say *Thank You* to everyone that has supported
me and my operation here this year. Your support and encouragement
means a great deal to me and I feel like I have friends literally from
all around the world!
Sincerely,
Matt Dralle
Your Email List Administrator
dralle(at)matronics.com
============================================================================
>--------------
>--> RV-List message posted by: Al Mojzisik
>
>Well folks,
>
>I hate to spring this on you without much advance warning and all but it's
>November already. For you newer List members you may not know but this is
>the time of year we all give "thanks" for all that Matte Dralle has done
>for us with this RV-List. the customary way of saying "thanks" is with a
>voluntary donation of cash through Matte's own simple and safe contribution
>hot-line at:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>It's really rather painless and actually gives you a good warm and fuzzy
>feeling inside after you have made your contribution. Now last year I
>relied heavily on guilt to get some of you harder nuts to crack to ante
>up. This year I hope that in keeping with the election year theme I can
>learn something from the experts........"It's for the children."
>
>Yes your contribution will help children everywhere learn about the high
>moral values that are inherent in the RV family of aircraft. As our young
>charges surf the Internet for information on various things that we don't
>want them to know about, they may stumble across the Matronics Website and
>become aware of the RV-List and other interesting forums that Matte
>provides. This in turn may change there lives as they see what can be
>achieved through hard work and perseverance. They will learn how the polite
>exchange of idea's between consenting adults can result in the birth of one
>(or more) of the finest aircraft in existence today. They can become aware
>of a whole world out there that had previously been unknown or out of reach
>to them. So in the interest of our children, send your contribution to
>Matte to help the RV-List live long and prosper.............Darn, got my
>tongue caught in my cheek there for a moment.
>
>Once again, you can make your contribution through credit card at:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> c/o Matt Dralle
> Matronics
> P.O. Box 347
> Livermore, CA. 94551
>
>I would like to pledge at this time that I will not place any negative
>advertising in the hope of raising funds for RV-List support. (Unless you
>folks hold out too long, then look out!) Let's have a real clean campaign
>this November and get out the contributions! AL
>--------------
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shower of Sparks Ignition |
>> Thanks for the comments on my problem, but I am still confused. Let me
>> further describe my engine mags. As I stated before, the engine came with
>> two rebuilt mags. The one with the impulse coupling on the right side and
>> the mag on the left side contained a device on the rear of the mag with
two
>> wires protruding. This really confused me. Evidently, the overhaul
shop had
>> these two mags in their possession and overhauled them for my engine.
>>
>> When I inquired about this left mag device with the two wires
protruding, a
>> knowledgeable person said that Bendix Mag Co. calls this device "shower of
>> sparks". I then called the mechanic back and he informed me if I don't
want
>> to use the "shower of sparks", which I don't have a clue how it works,
just
>> clip the wires and use the impulse coupling on the right mag.
Shower of sparks is a special battery augmentation of spark energy
delivered by a magneto during cranking. I have a work in progress that
I'll share with those who are intrested in this topic. Download the
following:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/sparks2.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/sos_v1.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/sos_v1.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/sos_v1.pdf
Be advised there are figures called out in the text that
are not supplied and you'll have to do a little sorting
of the words against the three drawings that ARE supplied.
I don't have time to clean this article up right now but
it's good enough to share on a limited basis. I'm not
going to link it on the articles index until it's finished
so this e-mail message is the ONLY place you'll see 'em
listed.
In my not so humble opinion, S-o-S ignition is probably
the best thing that ever happend to a magneto. If you're
not ready to dump these 1940 devices in favor of 1990
devices, you can't do any better in terms of cranking
performance than to utilize shower-of-sparks augmentation.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | 10% for Matronics |
Builder's Bookstore and eCharts is happy to do again, what we did successfully
last
year. That is to donate a portion of our sales for the month of November to the
maintenance of the EZ-list.
10% FOR MATRONICS
Starting now, 10% of any purchase from either Builder's Bookstore or eCharts will
be put
aside as a donation to the EZ-list, as our thanks for this excellent resource for
EZ
builders and pilots. We will run this special
throughout November with a check for the total amount presented to Matt on December
1st
2000.
To designate your share, please write the words "10% for Matronics" in the Special
Instructions box on the on-line order form. Or, if you order something by phone,
just
tell me when you call.
Thank you Matt for this excellent service.
Andy Gold
Builder's Bookstore
http://buildersbooks.com
eCharts
http://eCharts.cc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Extraction tool for Amp-Leaf Connectors |
A list server participant just sent me a picture of the connector used on
the back of his MicroMonitor to ask if we stock an extraction tool for
it. Actually, I have a tool . . . which I fabricated about 20 years ago.
You can see a picture of the tool along with instructions on its
fabrication and use at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/amplefxt.jpg
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser Continues... |
Hello Listers!
This is just a reminder that the Annual List Fund Raiser is currently
underway. Won't you make a Contribution today to support the continued
operation and upgrade of this valuable resource? Your Contribution can
be made via a Secure SSL Internet Transaction with your Visa or
MasterCard at the URL shown below or you may send it via US Mail to the
address also listed below.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or
c/o Matt Dralle
Matronics
P.O. Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
Thank you for your support! Your generosity directly makes this List
possible.
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What size alternator to use? |
>From: "Sid Lloyd" <glastar1(at)swbell.net>
>
>I want to use one of the B & C Specialty Products lightweight alternators
and
>their regulators. They offer both a 60 and a 40 amp version. How do you
>know which one to get? Do you add up your planned electrical load and
>figure it out that way?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Sid
You need to accomplish what is called a "load analysis" for
the various phases of flight. Some folks do it on a spread sheet
and enter continuous running load (transmit doesn't count, lowing
landing gear
generally doesn't count, only add up loads that are on for duration
of the flight phase).
Main Bus Loads
============================================================================
===========
Pre- Taxi Climb VFR IFR Decent
Taxi Alt
Flt Cruise Cruise
Out
Battery contactor 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
1.0
Engine Gages 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3
0.3
Strobe Lts 2.5 2.5 2.5 2.5
2.5
Nav Lts
Fuel Pump
Landing Lt 7.5
Taxi Lt 4.5
Pitot Heat 5.0
Main Bus Totals
Essential Bus Loads
============================================================================
===========
Pre- Taxi Climb VFR IFR Decent
Taxi Alt
Flt Cruise Cruise
Out
Com 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1
0.1 0.1
GPS 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2
0.2 0.2
T/C 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3
0.3 0.3
Transponder/Encoder 0.45 0.45 0.45 0.45 0.45 0.45
0.45 0.45
Map Lt/Pnl Flood 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.1
0.1 0.1
E-Bus Totals 1.25
The list above is not intended to be all inclusive nor are the figures
entered intended
to be representative of your airplane . . . you need to do the homework and
get all the
data approprate to the equipment you plan to use.
You might also include a column headed NITE VFR . . .
After all the continuous loads are added up, total loads for E-Bus and Main
bus
should not be so great in any class of operation such that it doesn't leave
10A
or so to recharge your battery. The FAA uses a rule-of-thumb on the order
of 20
percent of alternator output should be reserved for battery charging. A better
rule is to figure out how much snort it takes to completely recharge your
battery
in 1 hour of flight. If you have an 18 a.h. battery, then you need 18A of
extra
output over and above your max continuous running loads.
If you make it an operating rule for your airplane that you will NEVER depart
into potentially stressful flight conditions unless the battery is fully
charged,
then you don't need to meet the 1 hour "rule" . . . If on hopefully very rare
occasions that you find your ship's battery totally dead, you make sure the
battery
is mostly recharged before launching into the blue then you can sensibly
mitigate
your alternator requriements. The classic rules of thumb observed by certified
aircraft designers originat from the padded cockpit environment where the
pilot
is assumed to know nothing about how the system was architectured or how it
operates. You are all encouraged to understand what's happening, why, and
be able to operate comfortably with it based on purposeful decision making.
I'm not sure the chart above will pass through all of the various lists with
the columns intact so I've dumped this e-mail to a .pdf file which you may
doanload at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/loadanal.pdf
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different from )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway... |
Hi Listers,
Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway
and participation so far as been good. If you haven't made your
contribution yet, won't you take a moment and make one today? The
continued operation and improvement of these services are directly
enabled by the generous contributions of its members.
You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using
the Matronics SSL Secure website at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or with a personal check to:
c/o Matt Dralle
Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
Thank you to all those that have already made a contribution!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Homebuilt-List: 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway... |
--> Homebuilt-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Hi Listers,
Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway
and participation so far as been good. If you haven't made your
contribution yet, won't you take a moment and make one today? The
continued operation and improvement of these services are directly
enabled by the generous contributions of its members.
You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using
the Matronics SSL Secure website at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or with a personal check to:
c/o Matt Dralle
Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
Thank you to all those that have already made a contribution!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Zenith-List: 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Hi Listers,
Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway
and participation so far as been good. If you haven't made your
contribution yet, won't you take a moment and make one today? The
continued operation and improvement of these services are directly
enabled by the generous contributions of its members.
You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using
the Matronics SSL Secure website at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or with a personal check to:
c/o Matt Dralle
Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
Thank you to all those that have already made a contribution!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Rocket-List: 2000 List Fund Raiser Underway... |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Hi Listers,
Just a quick reminder that the 2000 Email List Fund Raiser is underway
and participation so far as been good. If you haven't made your
contribution yet, won't you take a moment and make one today? The
continued operation and improvement of these services are directly
enabled by the generous contributions of its members.
You may make a contribution with either your Visa or Mastercard using
the Matronics SSL Secure website at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or with a personal check to:
c/o Matt Dralle
Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
Thank you to all those that have already made a contribution!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Huge Apology for "List Malfunction"... |
Dear Listers,
I am so embarrassed by the List-gone-crazy tonight! I'm not sure
exactly went wrong. I'm suspecting that someone with an email account
at msm.com may have been reposting my message from this morning over
and over again maliciously spamming the system, but I can't really
prove that.
In any case, I am hugely embarrassed and sorry for the ton of messages
that went out tonight regarding the 2000 Fund Raiser. Something went
wrong on the system or somebody did me wrong; in either case I
apologize for the huge dump of messages.
My sincerest apologies...
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | New List MIME/HTML/Enclosure Filter Implemented... |
Dear Listers,
With the pervasiveness of email applications using HTML (web formatting)
and MIME encoding such as AOL 6.0, Netscape, Eudora and others it was
clear that I needed to come up with an improved method for limiting how
messages posted to the various Lists was handled.
As of today, November 13 2000 you should be able to configure your email
program any way you like - with or without special formatting - and your
message will still be accepted my the Matronics system. Also, if you
include any sort of enclosure data, your message will also still be
accepted instead of bounced back.
But wait, it gets even better! Everything except for the plain text
will be automatically stripped from the incoming post including any
HTML, MIME, and/or enclosure data prior to redistribution. This should
serve to both ease the configuration burden on the many users, and to
increase the readability of both the posted messages and the archives.
I had a few 'bugs' with the filter on Sunday and Monday morning, so if
you received a few messages that seemed "odd", than this was probably
why.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ivey <jim(at)jimivey.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Yak-List: New List MIME/HTML/Enclosure Filter Implemented... |
Everything you need to know can be found at the following url:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution/
I just used the secure credit-card option. There is also a snail-mail
address for you old-fashioned types (i.e. back in the good old days when
folks wouldn't abscond with your credit card info) ;)
Jim Ivey
N46YK
Matt Dralle wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> With the pervasiveness of email applications using HTML (web formatting)
> and MIME encoding such as AOL 6.0, Netscape, Eudora and others it was
> clear that I needed to come up with an improved method for limiting how
> messages posted to the various Lists was handled.
>
> As of today, November 13 2000 you should be able to configure your email
> program any way you like - with or without special formatting - and your
> message will still be accepted my the Matronics system. Also, if you
> include any sort of enclosure data, your message will also still be
> accepted instead of bounced back.
>
> But wait, it gets even better! Everything except for the plain text
> will be automatically stripped from the incoming post including any
> HTML, MIME, and/or enclosure data prior to redistribution. This should
> serve to both ease the configuration burden on the many users, and to
> increase the readability of both the posted messages and the archives.
>
> I had a few 'bugs' with the filter on Sunday and Monday morning, so if
> you received a few messages that seemed "odd", than this was probably
> why.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Admin.
>
> --
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> Great minds discuss ideas,
> Average minds discuss events,
> Small minds discuss people...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List: What Listers Are Saying... |
Matt,
I think what you're doing is great for those of us flying and building Kolb
aircraft. You're probably saving Kolb a full time employee in tech support
just by providing the communication between builders. I know I have had a
half dozen questions answered here on the list and saved Kolb support a few
phone calls. You should forward this letter to Kolb, maybe they'd ante up,
too. It would be great PR for the TN Kolb a/c. Thanks a bunch, Matt!
Ken Broste
Building a Firestar
Tucson, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 10:33 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: What Listers Are Saying...
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> During this year's List Fund Raiser I have been receiving a number of
> very nice comments from members regarding what the Lists mean to them.
> I'm sure most everyone can echo one or more of the thoughts expressed
> below. Won't you take a moment to make a Contribution to support the
> continued operation and improvment of your Lists?
>
> A special 'thank you' to everyone that has made a contribution so far
> and for all of the wonderful and supportive comments I've received!
>
>
> To make a contribution with a credit card over an SSL Secure Web Site,
> please go to the following URL:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> or, to make a contribution with a person check, please mail it to:
>
> Matronics
> c/o Matt Dralle
> PO Box 347
> Livermore, CA 94551
>
>
> Thank you!!
>
> Matt Dralle
> Email List Admin.
>
>
> ===================== Comments From List Members
========================
>
>
> * You helped make this dream a reality... -Terry C.
>
> * Thanks for a wonderful resource! -Rick J.
>
> * Thanks for providing a quality product. -Bill C.
>
> * Have found [the List] invaluable for education while building... -Rick
H.
>
>
> * I learn so much from the List! -Robert R.
>
> * [The List] is better than any aviation magazines I subscribe
o. -Roger H.
>
> * I enjoy the pages and find them very helpful. -Noel G.
>
> * The "List" is a great place to both receive and exten help and ideas
for
> building and making flying safer. -Jack B.
>
>
> * The discussions are very helpful. -James B.
>
> * ...I believe this List will be a better value than the
ewsletter. -Roger T.
>
> * [The List] has helped me with the construction of my RV-9. -Marty S.
>
> * VERY good reading. Excellent entertainment value. -Jerry I.
>
>
> * [The List] has saved me many hour on wild goose chases. -Billy W.
>
> * Thanks for keeping my passion for flying as piqued as ever. -Terry W.
>
> * Keep up the nice work. -Daniel H.
>
> * Thanks for all the effort on behalf of Sport Aviation! -Elbie M.
>
>
> * ...Great information source! -Richard W.
>
> * ...Thanks for your help and patience with a very difficult
ask. -Louis W.
>
> * [The List] has been a great asset. -Edward C.
>
> * Just started and already received some valuable tips. -Scott S.
>
>
> * Thanks for the List to let up share our passion. -Brian A.
>
> * ...This List is good stuff. -Russ D.
>
> * ...The single most helpful resource I've come across in
uilding. -Craig P.
>
> * ...Enjoy [the List] a lot. -John H.
>
>
> * The List is a most important tool to help building. -Brad R.
>
> * ...Really found the List to be great! -Geoff T.
>
> * Excellent contribution to the aviation community. -Larry B.
>
> * Great source of information... -William G.
>
>
> * The Lists ... make building a real hoot! -Jeff O.
>
> * The List has been invaluable. -Matt P.
>
> * Thanks for letting me use the site. It's great! -Larry M.
>
> * ...This List has been very helpful. -Larry H.
>
>
> * Greatest support ever for the builders and I have met many
riends. -Fred H.
>
> * ...I love this List and have met many new friends... -Tom E.
>
> * Love both the List and the Search Engine. -Roy G.
>
>
> ===================== Comments From List Members
========================
>
>
> --
>
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> Great minds discuss ideas,
> Average minds discuss events,
> Small minds discuss people...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <rjslade(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | - is there anyone out there? |
I subscribed to this list in October. It seemed like a good idea since this
list is uncensored. Since then I've received around 30 messages, 13 of which
were regarding fund raising, 5 administrative, and the rest, bar one were
from Bob Knuckolls. Hi Bob!
How many people are reading this list every day?
Don't we have anything to discuss?
Regards,
John Slade, Cozy MKIV #757, progress: http://kgarden.com/cozy
West Palm Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jc(at)petrobras.com.br> |
| Subject: | Re: - is there anyone out there? |
02/01/2001 10:47:15
I'just entered in this list.
And, I'm going out...
Happy new year
JC
Brasil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-ez-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Re: - is there anyone out there? |
Hello.
Me and my Long entered this list a week ago, and your mail was the first for me.
I thought I should keep a low profile in the beginning but that seems difficult
if it's just the two of us.
I've finished my long this summer and have flown about 20 hours in it.
I fitted a Lyc.O-320 in it on a standard engine mount designed for the O-235 with
no extra reinorcements.
Is there anybody out there who has made any structural calculations on the heavier
engines and planes that is flying around today?
Im interested in increasing the max gross to lets say 1600 lbs. and I know that
many are having that as a practical limit.
But to get it legal I need some data on it.
Anders Forslf
SE-XRS
Sweden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-ez-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Re: - is there anyone out there? |
Hmmm..... I forgot my address
Anders Forslf
anders.forslof(at)chello.se
Long-ez. SE-XRS
Stockholm. Sweden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Erik Anderson <erik(at)futura.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EZ-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/02/01 |
> How many people are reading this list every day?
> Don't we have anything to discuss?
>
Well, I'm here, anyway. Building a Long now, and I'm always on the
lookout for tips and advice....
Erik Anderson
Long-EZ #27
http://members.nbci.com/sputnik90/Longez/longez.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <rjslade(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EZ-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/02/01 |
>> How many people are reading this list every day?
>> Don't we have anything to discuss?
> Well, I'm here, anyway. Building a Long now, and I'm always on the
>lookout for tips and advice....
Well that makes three of us. Four counting Bob K.
Lots of tips (especially how not to do things) in my Cozy page, Erik. Most
of it is the same as the LongEz.
Regards,
John Slade
http://kgarden.com/cozy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PLMJohnson(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: EZ-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/02/01 |
I'm here too, building a Cozy MK IV with a Subaru EG33.
Phillip Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Erik Anderson <erik(at)futura.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EZ-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/06/01 |
John,
I know your page very well, and I think it's terrific. Keep up the
good work!
When will you be ready to fly? I know you're as tired of answering
that question as I am... My ready answer is "a year from now". Though
it's been "a year from now" for a while now....
> Lots of tips (especially how not to do things) in my Cozy page, Erik. Most
> of it is the same as the LongEz.
> Regards,
> John Slade
> http://kgarden.com/cozy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <rjslade(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EZ-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/06/01 |
Erik,
> When will you be ready to fly?
The day after it's done!
Seriously, the engine is going to take a while. Maybe late spring, early
summer.
Glad you like the page.
Regards,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RWhitt1245(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: EZ-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/06/01 |
Hi
Yes, there are a few that monitor this. Maybe it will grow. I never post to
the c-a list. They have made it clear about their policies on ACS bashing and
alterrnative engines
I have lints to both.
Ron W. eracer builder chev v6 power
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <rjslade(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EZ-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/06/01 |
>Yes, there are a few that monitor this. Maybe it will grow. I never post to
>the c-a list. They have made it clear about their policies on ACS bashing
and
>alterrnative engines
>I have lints to both.
You picked on two of my pet subjects. I have web pages dedicated to both.
I also made a page specially for the ca list moderators and their small
minded games.
See http://kgarden.com/calist.htm
John Slade
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Matronics Web Server Upgrade... |
B
Dear Listers,
I will be upgrading the Matronics Web Server this afternoon (1/21/01)
and will be taking it offline for a number of hours. I hope to have it
back online by this evening sometime, depending on how well the upgrade
goes.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elbie(at)aol.com (by way of Matt Dralle 925-606-1001 <dralle(at)matronics.com>) |
2/9/2001
Fellow Pilots and Builders:
EM aviation is pleased to announce that the RiteAngle III Angle of
Attack system is in production. I know this has been a long, long wait for
some of you, however I will not sell a system that is not up to my standards.
The long delay was partially caused by the total new design required
after the RiteAngle 2000 system was terminated. The remainder of the delay
was insuring the system met all our requirements such as both hot and cold
environment testing. The first production group of systems off the line
are being again extensively tested for approximately 2 weeks before we
deliver any systems to insure there are no "bugs" appearing.
When all production testing is accomplished I will ship according to who
has sent in the order form via fax or US mail. (Again, DO NOT send your
credit card number via e-mail! I DO NOT have a secure e-mail line.)
If you want a spot in line for early delivery you can request this via
e-mail, and mail your check or CC number.
At present time I estimate 4- 10 weeks before your delivery, depending on
when I receive your payment.
To those of you who have been in correspondence with me for the last year,
thanks for your belief in EM aviation's product, and soon you will have a
product in your hands. I honor my correspondence of the quoted price.
Current price $295 + mount & options see web site for information.
www.riteangle.com
Elbie Mendenhall
President
EM Aviation, LLC
P NE Prairie Rd
Brush Prairie WA 98606
360-260-0772
www.riteangle.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Fw: needed1 A cONTINENTAL w-670 eNGINE |
This is a forward... Might get a couple of copies. Just delete the extras,
but contact Buck if you have a possible lead. - Cy Galley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Buck Hilbert" <buck7ac(at)mc.net>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 12:04 PM
Subject: needed1 A cONTINENTAL w-670 eNGINE
> Help! Help!
> Looking for a 220 to put on the EAA Swallow so it can become an airmail
> replica Varney Airlines Machine. Really need Firewall forward but would
> appreciate any leads. This year at AirVenture we'll (Vntage ) will be
> hosting Airline Firsts to honor 75th anniversary of Airlines. Hope to
> hae a number of Early Airmail planes on site. Swallow, Pitcairn,
> Travelaire, Waco, etc. Maybe even the Stinson & Ford(s). Promises to be
> an exciting time.
> Again, any leads would be appreciated. Would like a bolt on package, but
> asI said, any leads would be appreciated.. Over? Buck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
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, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
| Subject: | Version 2.0 Experimental Panel Builder |
Version 2.0 of the Experimental Panel Builder is up and running. The
response to Version 1.0 was almost overwhelming and we received many
requests for additional panels and instruments. We've tried to
accommodate as many as possible but if we've missed something please let
us know by clicking on the "Request New Panels" or "Request New
Instruments" link.
After we published version 1.0 fellow RV List member, RV-8 Builder
(soon to be RV-7 builder) and web master extraordinaire, Jared Boone
(Portland, OR) offered us some suggestions on how we could make things
work a little better. I had some discussions with Jared via email and
even tossed back a brewski or two with him on a recent visit to
Portland. Jared took time out of his busy work schedule (guess what he
does for a living) and helped turn out the version of code that you see
here. Truly remarkable and Bill and I owe him a lot of thanks.
So what's new?
First, you can now save your work. Yes, that's right. After creating a
panel, all you have to do is log out or go to another web page. The
next time you log in you're panel will still be right there were you
left off. Neat.
Space saving organization. Drop down menu's allow you to select the
panel you're interested and the category of instruments your interested
in working on. This saves space and makes creating panels easier.
Duplicate items. Now you can drag as many items onto the panel as you
like. Just keep dragging them up there. You want lots of circuit
breaker and switches. Just keep dragging them up.
If you don't like an instrument then just drag it off the panel and it
goes away. Don't like any of your work and want to start over? Just
hit the reset button.
Because of all the code changes, the time it takes for the initial page
to load has been greatly reduced because it doesn't have to load all the
images at once.
After the last version was published we received a ton or requests for
additional panels and equipment. This is where Bill Vondane came to the
rescue.
Bill jumped into action and developed no less than 20, yes 20, new
panels and added many more instruments. After Jared modified the code
to make the new changes possible, Bill had to add all the new data, and
modify things to get it published. Bill also created the user interface
and "Tips" page to help makes things a little clearer.
Bill and Jared have graciously donated LOTS of time and effort to bring
this tool to it's present state. Remember, these guys both have planes
to build and busy jobs and families to take care of.
Enjoy the updated version and let us know what you think.
Alas, there is a downside. For all those Microsoft haters out there,
this new version is even LESS Netscape friendly than the pervious
version. At this time, due to the methods used to create some of the
features, ONLY Internet Explore 5.5 can be used to access the new
features. Jared is working on making it compatible with earlier
versions of Internet Explorer so until that time, the earlier version
1.0 is still available to use.
We're talking about developing some techniques that will allow ALL
browsers to work but that's still a ways off as time and energy permits.
Check it out. http://sonexlinks.com/panelbuilder/ or link to it from
my page http://bmnellis.com or Bills page http://vondane.com/rv8a
Guess what? It's still free! What a country.
Mike Nellis
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
RV-6 N699BM (reserved)
Plainfield, IL (LOT)
http://bmnellis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Dysinger" <larrykdysinger(at)hotmail.com> |
AeroElectric-List(at)matronics.com, Aviation-List(at)matronics.com,
Avionics-List(at)matronics.com, EZ-List(at)matronics.com,
Glasair-List(at)matronics.com, Homebuilt-List(at)matronics.com,
Kolb-List(at)matronics.com, Lancair-List(at)matronics.com,
Pitts-List(at)matronics.com, Rocket-List(at)matronics.com,
RVCanada-List(at)matronics.com, RVEurope-List(at)matronics.com,
Sonerai-List(at)matronics.com, Tailwind-List(at)matronics.com,
Zenith-List(at)matronics.com, BostonRVBuilders(at)yahoogroups.com,
oregon-rvlist(at)yahoogroups.com, RV-6and6A(at)yahoogroups.com,
SEFlaRVbuilders(at)yahoogroups.com
| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] Version 2.0 Experimental Panel Builder |
Mike,
That is great work. And thanks for sharing it with your fellow listers.
Larry
RV-8QB - Fuselage
From: "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com>
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, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
Subject: [rv8list] Version 2.0 Experimental Panel Builder
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 00:00:08 -0600
Version 2.0 of the Experimental Panel Builder is up and running. The
response to Version 1.0 was almost overwhelming and we received many
requests for additional panels and instruments. We've tried to accommodate
as many as possible but if we've missed something please let us know by
clicking on the "Request New Panels" or "Request New Instruments" link.
After we published version 1.0 fellow RV List member, RV-8 Builder (soon to
be RV-7 builder) and web master extraordinaire, Jared Boone (Portland, OR)
offered us some suggestions on how we could make things work a little
better. I had some discussions with Jared via email and even tossed back a
brewski or two with him on a recent visit to Portland. Jared took time out
of his busy work schedule (guess what he does for a living) and helped turn
out the version of code that you see here. Truly remarkable and Bill and I
owe him a lot of thanks.
So what's new?
First, you can now save your work. Yes, that's right. After creating a
panel, all you have to do is log out or go to another web page. The next
time you log in you're panel will still be right there were you left off.
Neat.
Space saving organization. Drop down menu's allow you to select the panel
you're interested and the category of instruments your interested in working
on. This saves space and makes creating panels easier.
Duplicate items. Now you can drag as many items onto the panel as you like.
Just keep dragging them up there. You want lots of circuit breaker and
switches. Just keep dragging them up.
If you don't like an instrument then just drag it off the panel and it goes
away. Don't like any of your work and want to start over? Just hit the
reset button.
Because of all the code changes, the time it takes for the initial page to
load has been greatly reduced because it doesn't have to load all the images
at once.
After the last version was published we received a ton or requests for
additional panels and equipment. This is where Bill Vondane came to the
rescue.
Bill jumped into action and developed no less than 20, yes 20, new panels
and added many more instruments. After Jared modified the code to make the
new changes possible, Bill had to add all the new data, and modify things to
get it published. Bill also created the user interface and "Tips" page to
help makes things a little clearer.
Bill and Jared have graciously donated LOTS of time and effort to bring this
tool to it's present state. Remember, these guys both have planes to build
and busy jobs and families to take care of.
Enjoy the updated version and let us know what you think.
Alas, there is a downside. For all those Microsoft haters out there, this
new version is even LESS Netscape friendly than the pervious version. At
this time, due to the methods used to create some of the features, ONLY
Internet Explore 5.5 can be used to access the new features. Jared is
working on making it compatible with earlier versions of Internet Explorer
so until that time, the earlier version 1.0 is still available to use.
We're talking about developing some techniques that will allow ALL browsers
to work but that's still a ways off as time and energy permits.
Check it out. http://sonexlinks.com/panelbuilder/ or link to it from my
page http://bmnellis.com or Bills page http://vondane.com/rv8a
Guess what? It's still free! What a country.
Mike Nellis
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
RV-6 N699BM (reserved)
Plainfield, IL (LOT)
http://bmnellis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List: Re: [rv8list] Version 2.0 Experimental Panel |
Builder
AeroElectric-List(at)matronics.com, Aviation-List(at)matronics.com,
Avionics-List(at)matronics.com, EZ-List(at)matronics.com,
Glasair-List(at)matronics.com, Homebuilt-List(at)matronics.com,
Kolb-List(at)matronics.com, Lancair-List(at)matronics.com,
Pitts-List(at)matronics.com, Rocket-List(at)matronics.com,
RVCanada-List(at)matronics.com, RVEurope-List(at)matronics.com,
Sonerai-List(at)matronics.com, Tailwind-List(at)matronics.com,
Zenith-List(at)matronics.com, BostonRVBuilders(at)yahoogroups.com,
oregon-rvlist(at)yahoogroups.com, RV-6and6A(at)yahoogroups.com,
SEFlaRVbuilders(at)yahoogroups.com
Mike,
wonderful job. Thanks a lot !!!
(Hey, listers, shouldn't we throw a dollar in the hat for Mike ??????)
/Hans Altena
Cary, North Carolina
(919) 412 6221
Sitting on the fence with my $$$
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matthew Mucker" <mmucker(at)airmail.net> |
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, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
| Subject: | Re: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Rocket-List: Re: [rv8list] Version 2.0 Experimental |
Panel Builder
I'm so impressed, that if someone'll give me an address, I'll pitch in TWO
dollars!
-Matt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:35 PM
> To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com; rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com;
> rv-list(at)matronics.com; AeroElectric-List(at)matronics.com;
> Aviation-List(at)matronics.com; Avionics-List(at)matronics.com;
> EZ-List(at)matronics.com; Glasair-List(at)matronics.com;
> Homebuilt-List(at)matronics.com; Kolb-List(at)matronics.com;
> Lancair-List(at)matronics.com; Pitts-List(at)matronics.com;
> Rocket-List(at)matronics.com; RVCanada-List(at)matronics.com;
> RVEurope-List(at)matronics.com; Sonerai-List(at)matronics.com;
> Tailwind-List(at)matronics.com; Zenith-List(at)matronics.com;
> BostonRVBuilders(at)yahoogroups.com; oregon-rvlist(at)yahoogroups.com;
> RV-6and6A(at)yahoogroups.com; SEFlaRVbuilders(at)yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rocket-List: Re: [rv8list] Version 2.0
> Experimental Panel Builder
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: RocketPilot2Be(at)aol.com
>
> Mike,
> wonderful job. Thanks a lot !!!
>
> (Hey, listers, shouldn't we throw a dollar in the hat for Mike ??????)
>
> /Hans Altena
> Cary, North Carolina
> (919) 412 6221
> Sitting on the fence with my $$$
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terminaltown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Sites up and running |
cadet-list(at)matronics.com, cessna-list(at)matronics.com,
czech-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com, glasair-list(at)matronics.com,
homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com,
piper-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com,
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, rvcanada-list(at)matronics.com,
rveurope-list(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com,
seaplane-list(at)matronics.com, skymaster-list(at)matronics.com,
smithmini-list(at)matronics.com, sonerai-list(at)matronics.com,
yak-list(at)matronics.com, zenith-list(at)matronics.com,
lancair-list(at)matronics.com
Hello Listers:
Terminal Town's Shopping Cart is up
and running!
Or http://www.terminaltown.com
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hillweb <psi(at)hillweb.com> |
| Subject: | North Corolina area builders fly-in |
Hope wether will permitting, we invite every one from North Carolina
and close by territory to attend by-monthly regional Fly-in/Drive-in
Saturday, May 5th from 10am till 4pm at
new Sanford Lee County regional KTTA: www.airnav.com/airport/TTA
Lat/Long: 35-34-56.900N / 079-06-04.900W, Elevation: 247 ft.
Attention - TTA has New UNICOM: 123.075 mHz ----
We will serve hot burgers and cold drinks around noon.
FBO will cooperate on best fuel price in the area.
Will be local attendees who is looking to start project,
perhaps potential buyers. Other canard pilot with birds intend to come.
We have XL under fresh primer and an Elite RG with tons of widgets.
Today came an beautiful XL by Hangar18 and I believe it will stay here
with new owner. We working on an automotive conversion - Mazda
rotary engine installation on Elite RG and will share details and answer
on your questions (Bruce Turentine I hope will attend).
Some hands-on projects available...
Russian jet trainer - free photos in cockpit and close-by... :-)
More to show and more coming.
Please send to me an e-mail with intentions at N1UT@velocity-air.com.
Thanks for cooperation.
If for some reason, you could not come, but wish to come next time,
please send me an e-mail with intentions.
Lets start help each other with the projects!
Vlad
N1UT - Velocity Elite, RG, Mazda 20B rotary, NA - engine installation in
progress
http://www.N1UT.velocity-air.com - site dedicated to the Velocity aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff and Charlene Pinkava" <advanced(at)brookings.net> |
Howdy
My name is Pink from Brookings S.D. and I'm in the process of working out a
deal to get an old E-Z it's flown about 8 years ago.
Other than delamination is there any other things I should really be
keeping an eye out for?(it has had a gear failure)
Thanks!
J.L. Pinkava
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EZ-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 05/27/01 |
PLEASE UNSCRIBE ME HFPILOT @AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Private" <rhinorob(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | EZ-List - NEW EXP2V + SL40 Com For Sale |
For Sale: NEW EXP2V + Indicator Module + Extender Module - $450 OBO For
details goto http://www.controlvision.com/frame.cfm?link=avionics.htm
Also: Apollo SL40 COM for sale US$1,200 OBO. For details goto
http://www.upsat.com/sl40.shtml
Contact Rob Cranston at 519-474-0819 or email rhinorob(at)home.com Payment by
check, money order, wire transfer or credit card.
THE TRAY MOUNT EXP2V board offers the ultimate in simplicity. The entire
electrical system slides out of the panel for extremely fast installation
and service. Comes prewired with rocker switches. A true QUICK BUILD
electrical system. $424
THE INDICATOR MODULE is a compact, multi function electrical system
annunciator panel that provides a positive status of each circuit in the
EXPBUS, over and under voltage warning lights, an amp-meter, and a solid
state light dimmer for the instrument panel lighting. $129
EXTENDER MODULE
* Up to 26 amps load, 30 volts DC
* 7 current protected outputs
* Works with EXP-BUS or standalone
* Built in trip indicators
* Saves time and money $49
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ClearProp1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | God Bless America Apparel |
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com,
zenith-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com,
lancair-list(at)matronics.com, cessna-list(at)matronics.com,
beech-list(at)matronics.com, cadet-list(at)matronics.com,
avionics-list(at)matronics.com, aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com,
pitts-list(at)matronics.com, homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com
As many of you know, the American Flags have sold out very quickly in most
stores across America. For those of you that want to wear the American Flag
proudly on your shirt or hat, we have them in stock and ready to send out.
The design is a waving flag with God Bless America proudly stated across the
flag.
A portion of every sale will go towards helping the families of this
disastrous crime. Show support for your country.
Scott Brown
Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc.
phone: 561-748-2420 Fax: 561-748-6980
Visit us at www.six-shooters.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ClearProp1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List: God Bless America Apparel |
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com,
zenith-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com,
lancair-list(at)matronics.com, cessna-list(at)matronics.com,
beech-list(at)matronics.com, cadet-list(at)matronics.com,
avionics-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com,
homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com
Sure, I am planning on sending a dollar from every shirts sold to both the
Fire Fighters Foundation and the Red Cross.
A few responses have indicated that I did not give a way to purchase these
items. Items can be purchased either over the phone, fax, or email by
forwarding your name, address, phone number and credit card for purchases. Or
you can send a check to:
Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc.
2731 SE Taiwinds Rd.
Jupiter, FL 33478
Items being sold are:
White T-shirts
Denim Blue hats
White Polo Shirts
Ash polo shirts
All are beautifully embroidered with the American Flag and "God Bless
America".
Thank you for all your responses!!
Scott Brown
Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc.
phone: 561-748-2420 Fax: 561-748-6980
Visit us at www.six-shooters.com
________________________________________________________________________________
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, rocket-list(at)matronics.com,
kolb-list(at)matronics.com, zenith-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com,
ez-list(at)matronics.com, lancair-list(at)matronics.com,
cessna-list(at)matronics.com, beech-list(at)matronics.com,
cadet-list(at)matronics.com, avionics-list(at)matronics.com,
pitts-list(at)matronics.com, homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List: Re: RV-List: God Bless America Apparel |
Can any of well known list posters vouch for this guy and I don't mean one
of his friends. Unless someone we know on the list can vouch for him I
wouldn't provide my CC# to anyone coming a knocking without knowing
without knowing who your doing business and that it a
legitimate business. Anyone can put up a web page and look real.
jerryb
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: ClearProp1(at)aol.com
>
>
>
>
>Sure, I am planning on sending a dollar from every shirts sold to both the
>Fire Fighters Foundation and the Red Cross.
>
>A few responses have indicated that I did not give a way to purchase these
>items. Items can be purchased either over the phone, fax, or email by
>forwarding your name, address, phone number and credit card for purchases. Or
>you can send a check to:
>
>Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc.
>2731 SE Taiwinds Rd.
>Jupiter, FL 33478
>
>Items being sold are:
>
>White T-shirts
>Denim Blue hats
>White Polo Shirts
>Ash polo shirts
>
>All are beautifully embroidered with the American Flag and "God Bless
>America".
>
>Thank you for all your responses!!
>
>
>Scott Brown
>Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc.
>
>phone: 561-748-2420 Fax: 561-748-6980
>
>Visit us at www.six-shooters.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com,
zenith-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com,
lancair-list(at)matronics.com, cessna-list(at)matronics.com,
beech-list(at)matronics.com, cadet-list(at)matronics.com,
avionics-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com,
homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: RV-List: God Bless America Apparel |
Hmmm....seems to my cynical self that some company pops up out of nowhere
and wants to sell some product and work on my emotions by saying they'll be
sending a one stinking George Washington out of a ten dollar profit. Now, I
don't know, but there are not any prices posted on the web site. Kinda
reminds of the JFK or LaGuardia Sheraton who immediately doubled room rates
as soon as they heard all planes were grounded. Tell ya what...if you want
money to go to these funds, do what I did...call the Red Cross directly and
give them your credit card number and maybe more than a buck. Checked the
Six-Shooters website tonight...a whole 106 visitors to the site according to
their webcounter. Funny too, that the website was created on TUESDAY,
September 11 according to the website source code. Sorry, it just seems to
be seeing the "real" looters here in the U.S.A. are starting to come out of
the woodwork.
Just my opinion, I've been wrong before, but I've also seen profiteers in
action.....
Chris
Still waitin' and Wantin' to fly
Caveat Emptor
----- Original Message -----
From: <ClearProp1(at)aol.com>
; ;
; ;
; ;
; ;
; ;
;
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 10:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: RV-List: God Bless America Apparel
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ClearProp1(at)aol.com
>
>
>
>
> Sure, I am planning on sending a dollar from every shirts sold to both the
> Fire Fighters Foundation and the Red Cross.
>
> A few responses have indicated that I did not give a way to purchase these
> items. Items can be purchased either over the phone, fax, or email by
> forwarding your name, address, phone number and credit card for purchases.
Or
> you can send a check to:
>
> Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc.
> 2731 SE Taiwinds Rd.
> Jupiter, FL 33478
>
> Items being sold are:
>
> White T-shirts
> Denim Blue hats
> White Polo Shirts
> Ash polo shirts
>
> All are beautifully embroidered with the American Flag and "God Bless
> America".
>
> Thank you for all your responses!!
>
>
> Scott Brown
> Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc.
>
> phone: 561-748-2420 Fax: 561-748-6980
>
> Visit us at www.six-shooters.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ignitor" <ignitor(at)uswest.net> |
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, kolb-list(at)matronics.com,
zenith-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com,
lancair-list(at)matronics.com, cessna-list(at)matronics.com,
beech-list(at)matronics.com, cadet-list(at)matronics.com,
avionics-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com,
homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: RV-List: God Bless America Apparel |
OK, I take back the fact they don't have prices...I did find some prices on
the site for some school jerseys. My mistake. Still don't think this is the
forum to promote your business for profit, though.
Chris
Still cynical
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-listAmatronics.com(at)matronics.com, rocket-list@matronics,
kolb-list(at)matronics.com, zenith-list(at)matroncis.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com,
ez-list(at)matronics.com, lancair-list(at)matronics.com,
cessna-list(at)matronics.com, beech-list(at)matronics.com,
cadet-list(at)matronics.com, avionics-list(at)matronics.com,
aerobatic-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com,
homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | Doc Mosher <docshop(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | God Bless America Apparel |
Scott Brown dba Six-Shooters Embroidery, Inc - Jupiter, Florida
Your recent scattershot spamming of the entire Matronics airplane type
listing is not a nice thing to do. The Pietenpol list, for example, is for
messages among Pietenpol people. Matt's rules of protocol for list use
specifically state that the list is not for commercial sales use.
If you want to capitalize on the sudden surge of "show the flag" sentiment
by selling dry goods, that is your decision. But please do not clutter up
all of the Matronics airplane lists with your spam of advertising. That
was not a nice thing to do.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff and Charlene Pinkava" <advanced(at)brookings.net> |
| Subject: | RE: EZ-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/17/01 Its Alive!! |
Howdy
these are the firsts messages I have receaved over this list and have have
to come up a pessemist I too have been around mercenarys in the marketplace
and find this guys timing off.(maybe right on for a small business who has
been waiting for their embrodery machine for six months) a bit distasteful.
But I also find the nations crocodile tears distastful because some
civilians finnally got it. some of it is from the heart but I see alot more
hype.
Pink in S.D. U.S.M.C. GRUNT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charlie McDougal" <pc12charlie(at)yahoo.com> |
Hey EZ drivers. Where can I get a canopy cover for my Vari EZ. I fly to San
Antonio several times a week from McAllen, TX and usually have to leave the
airplane out on the ramp all day. I need something to cover it up so
everything doesn't melt
Charlie McDougal
N82VE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charlie McDougal" <pc12charlie(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Continental Alternator? |
Hey guys, I have an O200 powered Vari with a very sophisticated electrical
system that sports a B+C 12 amp alternator. I have my choice, lights or
radio. Since I need to add some strobes, I need to get a larger alternator.
It seems my only choice is the stock 60 amp. Can anyone offer an alternative
gear driven alternator that will fit on this engine? Or does anyone have a
servicable alternator that I could buy? Any suggestions would be
appreciated. This electrical system works flawlessly, has alarms for canopy,
gear, oil pressure, and mags, has two busses with a bus tie. It's really
cool, I don't want to screw it up!
Charlie McDougal
82VE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald E. Henry" <dehenry(at)telapex.com> |
Hi Charlie try http://www.covergirlaircraftcovers.com/
Charlie McDougal wrote:
>
> Hey EZ drivers. Where can I get a canopy cover for my Vari EZ. I fly to San
> Antonio several times a week from McAllen, TX and usually have to leave the
> airplane out on the ramp all day. I need something to cover it up so
> everything doesn't melt
> Charlie McDougal
> N82VE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick MORRISSEY" <pmorrissey(at)wanadoo.fr> |
| Subject: | Experience on Retractable gear on Long EZ |
Hi!
I would like to share experience on installing retractable gear on Long
EZ
Any exprience of that ?
Thks for your answers
*****************************************************
Cordialement - Sincerely
Patrick MORRISSEY - PhD - CIA - CISA - CISSP
AUDITWARE - Paris - France
pmorrissey(at)auditware.net
*****************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | NEW Matronics Email List Feature! Browse Current List |
Messages!
Dear Listers,
I have just finished building an all new Email List Web Browsing feature
for the Matronics Email Lists. The new system allows you to use your web
browser to view all of the current Email List messages. The system's
indexes display all of the current List messages sorted by Subject, Author,
Date, or Thread. Clicking on the URL links on these index pages will open
another "Viewing Window" where the messages will be displayed.
The format of the index pages and message viewing window are consistent
with the existing Matronics Archive Search Engine and should be familiar to
everyone. The messages available on this new List Browsing Feature span
the previous 7 days of email for the given List. Each day the oldest day's
messages are replaced with the current day's messages. The web pages are
updated every 30 minutes with any new messages that are posted to the List
during that time frame.
Please have a look at the new Utility and let me know what you think! For
ease of use, I've added a link to the new system on each of the List
trailers that are appended to each List email message.
I hope you will find the new system useful and also find it to be a handy
companion to the Archive Search Engine.
The new Email Browsing Utility can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
From here, you can select any of the available Email Lists.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shani, David" <David.Shani(at)sanmina.com> |
| Subject: | NEW Matronics Email List Feature! Browse Current Li |
st Messages!
Great job Matt...I wish the EZ list was more active though...
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Dralle [mailto:dralle(at)matronics.com]
Subject: EZ-List: NEW Matronics Email List Feature! Browse Current List
Messages!
Dear Listers,
I have just finished building an all new Email List Web Browsing feature
for the Matronics Email Lists. The new system allows you to use your web
browser to view all of the current Email List messages. The system's
indexes display all of the current List messages sorted by Subject, Author,
Date, or Thread. Clicking on the URL links on these index pages will open
another "Viewing Window" where the messages will be displayed.
The format of the index pages and message viewing window are consistent
with the existing Matronics Archive Search Engine and should be familiar to
everyone. The messages available on this new List Browsing Feature span
the previous 7 days of email for the given List. Each day the oldest day's
messages are replaced with the current day's messages. The web pages are
updated every 30 minutes with any new messages that are posted to the List
during that time frame.
Please have a look at the new Utility and let me know what you think! For
ease of use, I've added a link to the new system on each of the List
trailers that are appended to each List email message.
I hope you will find the new system useful and also find it to be a handy
companion to the Archive Search Engine.
The new Email Browsing Utility can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
From here, you can select any of the available Email Lists.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Web Server Upgraded! Blazingly Fast Archive Searches!! |
Dear Listers,
As of this weekend, the Matronics Email List Web Server is now running on a
brand new hardware platform and the latest version of RedHat Linux! The
new hardware includes Dual 1.7GHz Xeon Processors, a 400MHz FSB
motherboard, 1GB of 800MHz RAM, a Dual-Channel 160 MB/Sec Ultra-160 SCSI
Controller, and an Ultra 160 36GB 15,000 RPM Seagate Cheetah hard
drive. The performance of the new system is, in a word, breathtaking!
In a variety of benchmark tests against the previous server, the new system
is at *least* six times faster! This means that your Archive Search Engine
queries will now come back in what seems like an instant! Single word
searches of the 113MB RV-List Archive now return in 2-3 seconds, and
searches of all other List Archives return in 1 second or
less!! Performance enhancements in the download and viewing of all other
web-based tools should also be noticeably improved as well.
Please enjoy the new system performance and don't forget, the Annual Email
List Fund Raiser is just around the corner!! :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gretz aero" <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
"Tailwind-List" ,
"RV-List" ,
"Rocket-List" ,
"Lancair-List" ,
"Glasair-List" ,
"EZ-List" ,
"Avionics-List" ,
"AeroElectric-List"
| Subject: | Heated Pitot Tube |
Hello to the List,
If you are interested in a heated pitot tube and a great looking
mounting bracket to put on your aircraft, you may want to look at my
website at http://www.gretzaero.com
There you will see that I have two different pitot tubes available. I
also manufacture a very nice looking mounting bracket kit for the
installation of the pitot tube of your choice. The chrome finish of the
mounting bracket matches the finish of the pitot tube. Or, you may
choose a paintable surface mounting bracket.
I am offering a very special deal on the purchase of my PH502-12CR pitot
tube which is $130, IF, YOU MENTION AT THE TIME OF THE ORDER, YOU SAW
THIS SPECIAL ON THIS E-MAIL LIST. This is a $5 savings on my already low
price of $135. My prices always include shipping in the US.
I hope to hear from you soon.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
303-770-3811
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gretz aero" <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
"Tailwind-List" ,
"RV-List" ,
"Rocket-List" ,
"Lancair-List" ,
"Glasair-List" ,
"EZ-List" ,
"Avionics-List" ,
"AeroElectric-List"
| Subject: | Electric trim cable kits and servo motor kits |
Hello to the List,
I have Electric Elevator Trim Cable Kits and Servo Motor Kits that you
may want to consider using during building or up-grading for electric
elevator trim. On my website http://www.gretzaero.com you will find my
page on Alternative Electric Elevator Trim Kits. There you will see the
information you need to consider for the use of this kit on your
aircraft.
Something that is not yet on the website and is my newest kit, is the
Servo Motor Kit. You will need this kit for the installation of my Trim
Cable Kit and now you will not have to order it from another source.
This Servo Motor Kit consists of the Ray Allen Company T3-12A servo
(formally MAC Servo 8A), an LED position indicator, and a rocker switch.
This servo kit is $235 including shipping in the US. I also have the Ray
Allen Co. Relay Deck which is needed if you want to have more control
switches than the supplied rocker switch in line. This Relay Deck is
$34.50 if it is ordered at the same time as the Servo Kit.
I hope to hear from you soon.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
303-770-3811
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2001 List Fund Raiser - Please Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
During November of each year, I have a voluntary Email List Fund Raiser to
support the continued operation, development, maintenance and upgrade of
the Forums sponsored here. Your contributions go directly into
improvements in the systems that support the Lists and to pay for the
Internet connectivity primarily dedicated to supporting the Lists.
This year, I've made some substantial improvements to the Lists and the
supporting systems. These upgrades are focused on making your experience
here faster, more enjoyable, and most importantly, informative. Here is a
partial list of improvements that I've made on the systems this year:
o Upgraded Web Server
- Minimum 6X increase in performance *
- Tons more high performance disk space and memory!
- Increased availability and reliability - UPS Backup
- Improved support for > 130,000 Archive Searches each year!
* See http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/RV-SearchTime.jpg
o Email System Disk Subsystem Upgrade
- More storage and faster access times
- Faster redistribution of List Messages
- Processed over 45,000 List messages in 2001; 50,000 in 2000!
o All new List Browse Feature *
- Browse the last seven day's worth of List Messages
- Quick access to current threads
- Sort messages by Thread, Date, Subject, or Author
* See http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
o All new Photo Share Feature * &
- Simply email your photos and files to share
- Scanned for viruses
- Automatic Web Page Generation
- Includes descriptions and poster information
* See http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
& Officially to be announced soon
o Transition To High Performance Internet Service Provider
- Improved reliability
- Better access from most sites on the Internet
- Improved throughput
These are just some of the more visible improvements I've implemented this
year. I'm always working to improve the behind the scenes operation of the
Lists. I've built an elaborate system of message text and source address
filtering mechanisms to assure that you only receive text data in the
message, spam is nearly non-existent, computer viruses are never propagated
through the Lists, and that message post redistribution is smooth and
trouble free.
This year has seen a lot of improvements in the Email List experience. If
you enjoy the Forums here and make use of the many features, won't you take
a moment and make a Contribution to support the continued operation and
maintenance? Please note there is no advertising funding on the
Lists. You don't see annoying banner ads in the Email messages or on any
of the web pages. This just seems more friendly to me and makes the List
experience just that much more personal.
The operation of these Lists is supported *completely* through the
donations of List Members just like you!
Please take a moment to support your Lists by making a Secure Credit Card
Contribution at the following web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or you may send a personal check to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their Contribution and for
their continued support over the past year!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser Off to a Slow Start... |
Hi Listers,
First I want to take everyone that has taken a minute already to make a
Contribution to support the Email Lists in 2001! I also really appreciate
all the kind words I've been receiving regarding the Lists and how much
they mean to everyone. The testimonial means a lot to me and makes the
many hours working on the system worth it!! Later in the month, I'll share
a few of the kind words with the Lists.
I've added a nifty new Bar Graph Thermometer to the message trailer that
gives an up-to-the-minute percentage status of how many members have made a
Contribution during 2001! It was a fun piece of code to write and
hopefully will be a fun way to watch the Fund Raiser's Progress this year!
As I've said in the past, the Lists are supported *completely* through your
generous Contributions during the Fund Raiser and throughout the
year. This includes all of the system and connectivity upgrades we seen,
as well as makes the many hours I spend each month keeping the systems
running even more enjoyable ;-).
Won't you take a moment and make a Contribution right now to support your
Lists? Its fast and easy with the On-line, SSL secure Credit Card system,
or by direct US-Mailing a check. For complete information, please see the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance for your Generous Contribution!!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
PS - Don't forget to monitor the Fund Raiser Bar Graph below!
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What Listers Are Saying - Fund Raiser Continues... |
Dear Listers,
The 2001 List Fund Raiser is going well and I want to thank everyone that
has already so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists! Below
are some of the great comments and feedback members have been including
along with their Contributions.
Won't you make a Contribution today to support the continued operation and
upgrade of your Lists? Its fast and easy using the SSL Secure Web Site or
by simply sending a personal check. Complete information can be found at
Contribution web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
A give a special Thank You to all of those that have already contributed so
far this year!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
================== What Listers Are Saying ====================
Great information site.
- Edward S.
This is the first thing I look at every day.
- Ralph M.
The new List option is WONDERFUL!
- Kenyon B.
...new Search Software is absolutely fantastic!!
- Bruce K.
...essential to my enjoyment of RV building and flying.
- Douglas W.
Great List!
- Randall H.
...an invaluable service!
- Carlos S.
...incredible service to the industry!
- Alex M.
Building wouldn't be the same without the "Great List".
- Tom E.
...has helped the building process immensely.
- Hap S.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Have You Tried the New List Browse Feature?? |
Hi Listers,
I've been getting a LOT of very positive feedback on the new Email List
Browsing feature I added to the suite of List services a couple of weeks
ago. A number of List members have written to say that they love the new
List Browser because they can keep tabs on the latest List messages
throughout the day without having to constantly check their email or wait
for the Digest issue to come out.
The List Browse Function allows you to use your web browser to view the
current 7 day's worth of List messages for the give List. The indexes are
updated every 30 minutes with any new messages that have been posted. You
can sort all of the message indexes by Thread, Subject, Author, or Date and
easily track and find current threads.
You can check out the New List Browse Feature by going to the following URL
and clicking on the List of your choice:
http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
Please remember that November is List Fund Raiser month!! The continued
operation and upgrade of the Email Lists are _entirely_ supported by YOUR
Contributions and support. You'll never see annoying, flashing banner ads,
or other forms of commercialism on these Lists. Just people sharing
information, data, and stories about your favorite topic, plain (plane?)
and simple.
If you enjoy the Lists and all of the services here, won't you take moment
and make a quick Contribution? It fast and easy using the SSL Secure Web
site with your Visa or MasterCard. Or, you can also send a personal check
to the address listed below.
SSL Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
USMail: Matt Dralle
c/o Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551-0347
Don't forget that the "List of Contributors" will be coming out in just a
few short weeks! Don't you want to make sure you're name is on it?
I would like to wish a special "Thank You" to everyone that has made a
Contribution so far this year!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Free Copy of Van's New "THE RV STORY" Video! |
Hey Listers!
In support of the 2001 Email List Fund Raiser, Andy Gold of The Builder's
Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com/ ) is donating a FREE COPY of the
new edition of Van's "The RV Story" video (VHS) to any Email List Member
making a Contribution of $50 or more!
To take advantage of this wonderful Offer, please include the following
information along with your Contribution, either in the Message Box if you
Contribute on-line, or on a slip of paper if your Contribution is by check
via the USMail:
Van's RV Story Video Offer
$50 or Greater Contributor
[your name]
[your shipping address]
[your City, State and Zip Code]
If you've already made a Contribution in 2001 of $50 or more and would like
to receive the video, please drop me an email ( dralle(at)matronics.com ) and
include the information shown above with the words "Video Offer" in the
Subject line.
Please note that this new edition of "The RV Story" will first be available
in about 8 weeks.
I want to thank Andy Gold and the Builder's Book Store for this *very
generous* Contribution! If you haven't taken a moment to check out The
Builder's Book Store web site yet, you owe it to yourself to have a look (
http://www.buildersbooks.com/ ). Andy has a fabulous selection of
interesting, informative, and exceptionally useful books and videos on his
site. Please have a look!
Again, I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a
Contribution so far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Your Contributions
make all of the Lists and Services found here possible - period.
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What They're Saying... |
Hi Listers,
The 2001 List Fund Raiser is currently underway and lot's of people have
been making their Contribution and saying a lot of very nice things about
the Lists and what they're daily-dose of Forum means to them! I've
included a few more of the Lister comments below.
Won't you take a moment to support your Lists this month? Its fast and
easy by making a Secure Credit Card Contribution at the following web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or by sending a personal check Contribution to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
For Complete information on the upgrades and improvements the Lists and
servers have undergone this year, have a look at this URL:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=113171908?KEYS=asdfasdf?LISTNAME=RV?HITNUMBER=4?SERIAL=1942094803?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
Here's few more of the comments I've been receiving about what the Lists
mean to its members:
======================
Not only a great way to help each other out, it's been
a wonderful way to meet new friends. - Fred H.
The List is invaluable to me...
- Russell W.
I absolutely love your Lists...
- Scott C.
...you are tying all the builders together.
- David A.
The Lists continue to be an invaluable source of
information. - Jeff O.
I look forward to reading my Email every day...
- Harvey S.
They are invaluable resources to builders of all
skill levels. - Kevin H.
...another year of excellent service.
- Terry W.
Way cool setup.
- Chuck R.
...source of information, inspiration, support,
and camaraderie. - Carlos S.
I'd be lost without them...
- Jeff O.
======================
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Hi Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st
I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support
the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a
minute to show their appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of
Contributors? As a number of people have pointed out, the List seems at
least, if not a whole lot more, valuable as a building/flying/recreating
tool as a typical your magazine subscription. We won't even talk about a
newsstand price... :-)
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming
LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to
support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa or M/C on the SSL Secure
Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by popping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
!! Don't forget !!
Andy Gold of the Builder's Book Store ( http://www.buildersbooks.com/ ) has
generously donated a FREE copy of Van's new "The RV Story" video to anyone
making a Contribution of $50 or more to support the Lists. For complete
information on the _awesome_ offer, please see this URL:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=113629625?KEYS=asdf?LISTNAME=RV?HITNUMBER=1?SERIAL=23392130806?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
To make sure you get your video, be sure to follow the instructions at the
URL above carefully!
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution
thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support
that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a
little comment about how the Lists have helped you! I love to feel the
love... :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Michael Brown... |
Hi Listers,
In support of the 2001 Email List Fund Raiser, Michael Brown of Brown
Aviation Tool Supply Co. ( http://www.browntool.com ) has generously
offered to provide Gift Certificates to all Listers making Contributions of
$30 or more this year!
Making your Contribution to support these Email Lists and to qualify for
the Brown Tool Gift Certificate is fast and easy by using the SSL Secure
Credit Card Contribution Web Site at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or by sending a personal check Contribution to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
According to Michael, "The Gift Certificates have absolutely no strings
attached and are as good as cash for anything from the Brown Tool Web Site
or Catalog."
The amount of your Gift Certificate is based on the size of your List
Contribution and is according to the following:
$100 or greater Contribution receives a $25 Gift Certificate!
or
$30-$99 Contribution receives a $10 Gift Certificate!
==================== How To Receive Your Certificate ====================
To receive your Brown Tool Gift Certificate, send an email message to:
browntooloffer(at)matronics.com
and include the following information:
1) Subject Line: Tool Offer
2) Which Gift Certificate you qualify for ($10 or $25)
3) [Your Name]
4) [Your Mailing Address]
5) [Your City, State Zip]
** Please only use the email address shown above (
browntooloffer(at)matronics.com ) to request your Gift Certificate!
*** Anyone making a List Contribution of $30 or more in 2001 qualifies for
the Gift Certificate!
==================== How To Receive Your Certificate ====================
You should receive your Gift Certificate from Brown Tool in about 2-4 weeks.
I want to thank Michael Brown of Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. for this
wonderful offer in support of the Email Lists! If you haven't yet had a
look at the Brown Tool Web Site ( http://www.browntool.com ), then you own
it to yourself to take a peek! He has some great deals and good quality tools.
And finally, I would like to thank everyone that has already made a
Contribution in this year's Fund Raiser! Its YOUR support that keeps these
Lists running and NOT ADVERTISING and FLASHING BANNER ADS...
Thank you!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What Can You Say...? |
Dear Listers,
I've been getting a ton great comments on what the Lists mean to its
members and I've included a few of them below. I'm sure _most_ of you can
echo one or more of these sentiments to the tune of a nice List
Contribution... :-)
Just one more week until I post the 2001 List of Contributors! Won't you
support the continued operation of these Lists by making a Contribution
today and assure your place on the upcoming Contributor List? I'm sure
your friends will be checking for your name on the LOC... ;-)
SSL Secure Web Visa and MasterCard Contributions:
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Personal Check via the US Mail:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551-0347
I want to thank everyone that has already made a Contribution this
year! YOU make these Lists possible!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
===========================================================================
Can't live without my List everyday!
- John B.
Information you can't get anywhere else.
- George D.
...one of the finest List sites on the Internet.
- Dennis S.
This List has saved my bacon more than once!
- Larry H.
Really invaluable service for a novice builder.
- John B.
...got some useful help from the List.
- Rocky S.
A valuable resource.
- Dennis N.
This List is a Super resource...
- Dwight F.
...couldn't have gotten this far without the
resources on the List.
- Jerry C.
Great service to us builders...
- Ronald M.
...someday we'll all meet in RV Heaven. Hey,
how come there isn't an "RV-Heaven" List?
- Louis W.
The info I've gleaned from the List has saved
me several thousand dollars...
- Kevin H.
...the only International, Interesting, Up-to-date,
List with the best search engine ever!
- Hans L.
...check it ever day so I don't miss anything.
- Jim B.
Great List!
- Douglas G.
This List has saved me a few times already...
- Thomas R.
...part of my morning wake up reading.
- Dwight F.
...helped my make my plane better, safer, better
looking, and built it quicker.
- Kevin H.
Have bought many items from the info the List gives.
- Jim B.
You meet the nicest people here.
- George D.
Informative, Amusing, Entertaining...
- John B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Don't Miss The Video... |
Hey Listers!
Just a reminder that in support of the 2001 Email List Fund Raiser, Andy
Gold of The Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com/ ) is
donating a FREE COPY of the new edition of Van's "The RV Story" video (VHS)
to any List Member making a Contribution of $50 or more!
To take advantage of this wonderful Offer, please include the following
information along with your Contribution, either in the Message Box if you
Contribute on-line, or on a slip of paper if your Contribution is by check
via the USMail:
Van's RV Story Video Offer
$50 or Greater Contributor
[your name]
[your shipping address]
[your City, State and Zip Code]
If you've already made a Contribution of $50 or more during the 2001 Fund
Raiser and would still like to receive the video, please drop me an email (
dralle(at)matronics.com ) and include the information shown above with the
following Subject Line:
Subject: Video Offer
Please note that this new edition of "The RV Story" will first be available
in about 8 weeks.
I want to thank Andy Gold and the Builder's Book Store for this *very
generous* Contribution! If you haven't taken a moment to check out The
Builder's Book Store web site yet, you owe it to yourself to have a look (
http://www.buildersbooks.com/ ). Andy has a fabulous selection of
interesting, informative, and exceptionally useful books and videos on his
site. Please have a look!
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution
so far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Just a few more days until I send
out the List of Contributors for 2001. Make your Contribution today to
make sure your name is on the LOC!!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Brown Tool Gift Certificate Reminder... |
Hi Listers,
Just a reminder that in support of the 2001 Email List Fund Raiser, Michael
Brown of Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. ( http://www.browntool.com ) has
generously offered to provide Gift Certificates to all Listers making
Contributions of $30 or more this year!
Making your Contribution to support these Email Lists and to qualify for
the Brown Tool Gift Certificate is fast and easy by using the SSL Secure
Credit Card Contribution Web Site at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or by sending a personal check Contribution to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
According to Michael, "The Gift Certificates have absolutely no strings
attached and are as good as cash for anything from the Brown Tool Web Site
or Catalog."
The amount of your Gift Certificate is based on the size of your List
Contribution and is according to the following:
$100 or greater Contribution receives a $25 Gift Certificate!
or
$30-$99 Contribution receives a $10 Gift Certificate!
==================== How To Receive Your Certificate ====================
To receive your Brown Tool Gift Certificate, send an email message to:
browntooloffer(at)matronics.com
and include the following information:
1) Subject Line: Tool Offer
2) Which Gift Certificate you qualify for ($10 or $25)
3) [Your Name]
4) [Your Mailing Address]
5) [Your City, State Zip]
** Please only use the email address shown above (
browntooloffer(at)matronics.com ) to request your Gift Certificate!
*** Anyone making a List Contribution of $30 or more in 2001 qualifies for
the Gift Certificate! But, you have to follow the instructions above to
receive it!
==================== How To Receive Your Certificate ====================
You should receive your Gift Certificate from Brown Tool in about 2-4 weeks.
I want to thank Michael Brown of Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. for this
wonderful offer in support of the Email Lists! If you haven't yet had a
look at the Brown Tool Web Site ( http://www.browntool.com ), then you own
it to yourself to take a peek! He has some great deals and good quality tools.
I would like to thank everyone that has already made a Contribution in this
year's Fund Raiser!
Thank you!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Contributors Down By 25%... |
Dear Listers,
First I want to thank everyone that has already so generously made a
Contribution toward this year 2001 List Fund Raiser. It is your support
that makes these Lists possible.
Since there are only a couple more days until the official end of this
year's drive, I want to share some statistics regarding this and previous
Fund Raiser percentages. In years past, the percentage of members making a
Contribution to support the Lists has typically been right around 23% of
the total List population. This year, however, you'll note from the
Contribution Meter that we're only at a little over 16% for some
reason. This is down by roughly 7%, and translates into about a *30%
decrease* in participation this year!
I'm hoping that everyone is just waiting until the very last minute to make
their Contribution this year, and that the needle on the Contribution Meter
will still creep up to the normal 23% in the next few days! Saturday or
Sunday I will be posting the 2001 List of Contributors, so you'll want to
heat up that Contribution Web Site right away to make sure your name is on
the 2001 LOC!!
The SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
The US Mail Address:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550-7227
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] - Why Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? |
Listers,
A couple List Members have asked if the Lists are "in trouble financially"
and wanted to know if this is why I was having a Fund Raiser. It got to
thinking that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also
take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here provide
a far better experience than the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with
running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the
annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I
have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the
members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to
sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From
the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great
majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List
systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage
members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer a great many
benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first
feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you *cannot*
receive a computer v*rus from any of my Lists directly. I've been on a few
other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected
files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their
posts. This just can't happen with my Lists; each incoming message is
filtered and attachments stripped off prior to posting. I provide a Photo
and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with
other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be
prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and
simple. Also, with this photo and file sharing technique, the Archives
don't get loaded up with a great amount of bitmap "data" that slows the
Archive Search times.
Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are
available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the
way back to the very beginning of each List and with the super fast Search
Engine, the huge size of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the
data you're looking for. Another feature of the Archives, in my opinion,
is that they have been primarily stripped of all the useless email header
data and all the other header garbage that seems to build up in a typical
email thread.
I have received an extremely positive response from Listers regarding the
new List Browse feature and the consensus is that the format and ease of
use is outstanding. Members report that having the previous 7 days worth
of messages online for easy browsing and sorting is hugely beneficial. And
again, as with the real time distribution of List email, the messages are
stripped of all the unnecessary email headers and potentially dangerous
v*ruses.
I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain
since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew who where
building RVs. It has grown into nearly 40 different aviation-related Email
Lists and an associated web site that receives over 500,000 hits each
month!! With all the dot.bombs these days, I think there's a lot of value
in supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing
and improving a high quality service at a price that's nearly free.
I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows
in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email
Message, Search the Archives, or use the List Browser. The Lists will be
here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free,
that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and
receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual
List Fund Raiser!
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
------------------------------------------
The SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
The US Mail Address:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550-7227
------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Free Stuff Reminder... |
Dear Listers,
Don't forget that you can receive a free copy of Van's new Video, "The RV
Story" with a $50 or greater contribution this year, or a $10 Gift
Certificate from Brown Tool for a $30 or greater contribution or a $25 Gift
Certificate for a $100 contribution. Below are two URLs for complete
information on the two Offers. Please follow the respective instructions
*carefully*.
Van's Video Offer Information:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=5781141?KEYS=asdf?LISTNAME=Yak?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=09092616692?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
Brown Aviation Tool Gift Certificate Information:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=5838463?KEYS=asdf?LISTNAME=Yak?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=09080216166?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
I want to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore and Michael Brown of
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. for their generous offers in support the
Lists this year!! Thank you, guys!
I'd like to thank everyone that has already made a generous Contribution in
support of the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Listers,
Below are some of the comments I've received just this week alone from
members along with their Contributions to support the Lists! What can I
say? Wow. I really appreciate the kind words and extremely positive
feedback and I would encourage you to read over a few of comments below. I
think they really say a mouthful...
The last couple of days have seen a huge increase in support!! Thank you
to all that have Contributed and to those that have rallied support for the
Lists! Since the response has been so wonderful recently, I plan to delay
the posting of the 2001 List of Contributors a few days to assure that
everyone will be included!
Won't you make your Contribution today to support the Lists?
------------------------------------------
The SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
The US Mail Address:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550-7227
------------------------------------------
Thank you to everyone for the kind words and support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
======== Some Great Comments on What The Lists Mean to its Members ==========
...great source of information, education,
relaxation, frustration, and socialization.
- John H.
Can't imagine what it would be like building
with out the Lists...
- Steven E.
Look forward to the list every day.
- Parker T.
I really enjoy reading the banter...
- Wesley H.
...enjoy the patter on construction tips and
possible problem areas.
- Richard N.
Couldn't have built my RV-4 without the List
and archives!!
- Warren M.
I have found the list to be a great help,
especially for a first time builder.
- Peter D.
I thoroughly enjoy the List.
- Larry B.
The List is a great resource.
- Dennis K.
The list is great entertainment.
- Gary Z.
Can't say enough about the good information
that I have received from reading the List.
- Robert C.
...it's the best!
- Steve F.
I'm addicted to the List!
- Rodney B.
The list has been a wonderful resource of
knowledge.
- Doug B.
As a first time builder, the lists have
been my most important source of information.
- James V.
It [read the List] is the first thing I do
every day is see what's new.
- Billie F.
The information available through the List
has made my flying safer...
- Dave R.
I get much more information about my plane
from this List than from all of my aviation
magazines combined.
- Roger H.
I love the list!!!!
- Ken L.
Much better value than a magazine subscription.
- Ted M.
...found it very useful.
- Allan J.
...this list has been a great service to me.
- Peter F.
I cannot express just how USEFUL the Lists are.
- Geoff T.
...a tremendous help to my RV-8 project and
a way to meet some of the best people going.
- Steve G.
The List is invaluable, and the best I've
ever seen.
- Ed C.
Like another family for many of us.
- John H.
The lists have saved a bunch of calls to
Van's for guidance.
- James V.
I think I'm addicted...
- Terry C.
Love it!
- David W.
The information really helps...
- Jim P.
...I find [it] very informative.
- Real D.
...List keeps me motivated... - Cliff M.
The exchange of information is really helpful...
- M.N.
Lots of great info on the List.
- Larry D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New Photo Share Main Index Page - The Detail You Asked For... |
Hi Listers!
I've been noticing a lot of people having fun with the new Email List Photo
and File Share feature and I've seen a great many hits on the various
member pages.
A number of you wrote to say that some additional topic data on the Main
Photo Share Index page would certainly be helpful and I would have to agree.
It took a little programming, and it was a job retrofitting to all of the
older Shares, but I think you'll be pleased with the outcome! I've added
Poster Name, Photo Share Subject, and Target Email List data to the Main
Index. Clicking on a Subject text opens a new window with the Photo Share
and the thumbnails.
Have a look and feel free to submit your photos for sharing! The
instructions are at the top of the Main Photo Share Index Page.
The URL is:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
Enjoy!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [ PLEASE READ ] : Matronics Network Upgrade Mon. 12/17/01 |
Listers,
According to my ISP, Speakeasy, they will be doing some sort of "backbone
upgrade" Monday, 12/17/01. Their message doesn't mention whether or not
this will impact connectivity for any length of time. I wanted everyone to
know that there might be a time when access to the Matronics Web Server and
Email Lists might be unavailable. If there's a problem, I'll post a
message from a different email address with details.
Bottom line: Hopefully nobody will notice...
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lycoming for sale |
| From: | "Philip Chapman" <chapmanp(at)us.ibm.com> |
02/08/2002 09:04:17 AM
Lycoming 0-235-C1 for sale. Half life, great condition, cleaned and ready
for installation$4K
Can be inspected in CT 203 662 9768.Phil
chapmanp(at)us.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Private" <rhinorob(at)sympatico.ca> |
For Sale: NEW EXP2V + Indicator Module + Extender Module - $450 OBO For
details goto http://www.controlvision.com/frame.cfm?link=avionics.htm
Contact Rob Cranston at 519-474-0819 or email rhinorob(at)sympatico.ca
Payment by
check, money order, wire transfer or credit card.
THE TRAY MOUNT EXP2V board offers the ultimate in simplicity. The entire
electrical system slides out of the panel for extremely fast installation
and service. Comes prewired with rocker switches. A true QUICK BUILD
electrical system. $424
THE INDICATOR MODULE is a compact, multi function electrical system
annunciator panel that provides a positive status of each circuit in the
EXPBUS, over and under voltage warning lights, an amp-meter, and a solid
state light dimmer for the instrument panel lighting. $129
EXTENDER MODULE
* Up to 26 amps load, 30 volts DC
* 7 current protected outputs
* Works with EXP-BUS or standalone
* Built in trip indicators
* Saves time and money $49
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Belated List of Contributors #2... |
Dear Listers,
I'd like to apologize for the delay in posting the 2001 List of
Contributors Number 2, as well as getting behind in the List Photo
Shares. Here's my sad story... Over the Christmas holidays, I was working
out in the shop on a rotating drum sander. I was sanding out the woofer
hole in a speaker enclosure and, long story short, the part got away from
me and started spinning like a Hula hoop on the drum. Rather than just
turning the machine off like I should have done, I tried to grab the part
and in the process badly broke the ring fingers on *both* my right and left
hands!! I had to go in for surgery on the left hand because of the joint
damage and was stuck in a thing called an "external fixator" for almost 4
weeks. The right hand has healed up well, but the left one is very stiff
and I'm currently only getting about 70 degrees of bend. The doctor says
that I will get 80-90% of the moment back with a great deal of therapy and
I'm going to hold them to that...
The moral of the story is that even a sander can be a dangerous tool. I
had been working with a table saw, drill press, scroll saw, and high power
routers all day long and afforded them all the respect they deserved. But
with the sander, I never even thought about how things could go bad. It
just didn't seem like a dangerous tool. Be careful out there in the
shop. In a moment you can hurt yourself; hurt yourself in such a way that
you will have to live with the damage the rest of your life. Nothing is
worth that.
I'm finally back working on the computer and getting back to email and
other stuff. Later today I will be processing the mound of Photo Shares
that have backed up while I was out. I also just finished up the 2001 List
Contributions and have included the List Number 2 below.
I want to thank everyone that has so generously contributed to the List
this past year! It is your Contributions that make these Lists possible.
I understand that the Van's Videos from the Builder's Bookstore should be
shipping very soon if not already, and the discount coupons from Brown
Tools should already have arrived. Thanks again to Andy Gold and Michael
Brown for their generous support of the Lists this year with these giveaways!
Oh, and now that my fingers are working pretty well again, I've decided to
go ahead and finish my RV-4!! I had a LOT of guilt over wanting to sell
it... :-)
Happy Building and Flying!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Alexander, Don
Alexander, George
Andrews, Jim
Anonymous
Blake, James
Bowman, John
Buryl, Hill
Butler, Sherman
Cantrell, Jimmy
DeRuiter, Marcel
Deffner, David
Graumlich, Tom
Griffin, Randy
Harbour, Keith
Hunt, Robin
Jannon, Terence
Johnson, Jackie
Kahn, Steve
Labhart, Norm
Laird, David
Larson, Joe
Licking, Larry
Maynard, Brad
Navratil, Richard
Noonan, Thomas
Petersen, Paul
Reed, Gary
Rogers, Ken
Salter, Phillip
Schmit, John
Schultz, David
Sheffield, Ray
Smith, Edmond
Staley, Dick
Utterback, Tom
Uvanni, Bruce
Williams, Henry
Wilson, Robert
Woodward, Don
Worthington, Victor
Zirges, Malcom
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Bob Haan ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Bob Haan
Subject: New WigWag II
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/bhaan@easystreet.com.02.17.2002/index.html
--------------------------------------------
o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
o Main Photo Share Index:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gretz aero" <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
"Tailwind-List" ,
"RV-List" ,
"Rocket-List" ,
"Lancair-List" ,
"Glasair-List" ,
"EZ-List" ,
"Avionics-List" ,
"AeroElectric-List"
| Subject: | Gretz Aero website |
Hello Listers,
I would like to invite you to visit my website for many aircraft items
you may be very interested in for your homebuilt. The address is,
http://www.gretzaero.com I hope you find my products and the
information there of interest to you.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
303-770-3811
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Free Thunderbird, Blue Angels videos |
Free Thunderbird, Blue Angels videos
I've got 5 copies of a Thunderbirds / Blue Angles video which we'll give
away for Free to the first 5 people who ask for it along with any other
regular order from Builder's Bookstore.
It's a 50 minute video, 1/2 on the Thunderbirds, and 1/2 on the Blue
Angels. The Thunderbird segment is excellent. The Blue Angels section
is not as good.
To get one, just write FREE THUNDERBIRDS VIDEO in the special
instructions box on the Builder's Bookstore on-line order form, or say
so if you prefer to order something by phone.
Also, in case you are caller #6 or later, note if your regular order
depends on whether there is a free video left to include in your
package.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://buildersbooks.com
800 780-4115
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Browsing Feature! |
Dear Listers,
I thought I'd post a little reminder to everyone about a very slick feature
of the email Lists here at Matronics. You can now use Netscape or Internet
Explorer to browse the current messages on your favorite List! The List
Browse Function tracks the current 7 day's worth of List messages for any
given List. Indexes are updated every 30 minutes with new messages that
have been posted. You can resort the message indexes by Thread, Subject,
Author, or Date and easily track and find current threads.
A number of List members have written to say that they love the List
Browser because they can keep tabs on the latest List messages throughout
the day without having to constantly check their email or wait for the
Digest issue to come out.
You can check out the List Browse Feature by going to the following URL and
clicking on the List of your choice:
http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
Enjoy!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Bedell" <bedelk(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | XDP4000X-List: unhappy |
All-
I hooked up my xdp-4000x and it sounds like crap. I ordered the necessary cable
from online and tried to tune it, but it just got worse. Is there something missing
htat I need to do to get it to work. When I bypass it with rca splitters
the res of my system works like a charm. I have the 6001ES running three 10'
ES subs. Then 2 1805 ES's handling everything else. Aside from the problems with
the 4x, there is a huge disparity between cd volume and radio volume. I mean
huge!!!. I can max out radio volume and it sounds ok, then pop in a cd and
half way blows mee out of the cab. Any ideas, I anm just so dissapointed right
now....
From: Matt Dralle <DRALLE(at)MATRONICS.COM>
Reply-To: xdp4000x-list(at)matronics.com
To: Email-Lists(at)matronics.com
Subject: XDP4000X-List: List Browsing Feature!
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:52:33 -0700
-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: Matt Dralle
Dear Listers,
I thought I'd post a little reminder to everyone about a very slick feature
of the email Lists here at Matronics. You can now use Netscape or Internet
Explorer to browse the current messages on your favorite List! The List
Browse Function tracks the current 7 day's worth of List messages for any
given List. Indexes are updated every 30 minutes with new messages that
have been posted. You can resort the message indexes by Thread, Subject,
Author, or Date and easily track and find current threads.
A number of List members have written to say that they love the List
Browser because they can keep tabs on the latest List messages throughout
the day without having to constantly check their email or wait for the
Digest issue to come out.
You can check out the List Browse Feature by going to the following URL and
clicking on the List of your choice:
http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
Enjoy!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Four New Email Lists At Matronics!! |
Dear Listers,
I've just added four new email Lists to the current lineup at
Matronics. These new lists include:
KRNet:
krnet-List(at)matronics.com The RANS KR1 and KR2 Series
Cub:
cub-List(at)matronics.com The Piper J-3 Cub
RV10:
rv10-List(at)matronics.com The New 4-place RV from Van's!
Europa:
europa(at)matronics.com The Slick European Composite
All the usual features are available with the new Lists including the
search engine, archive download, 7-day List browse, and PhotoShare!
To sign up for any or all of the new lists, please go to the List
Subscription page and put in your email address and select the Lists of
your choice. The URL for the Subscription page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscibe
Don't forget that its your posts that generate traffic on the respective
Lists! Post an introduction and a description of your project or dreams!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [With Good URL This Time!] Four New Email Lists At Matronics!! |
[Typo in the subscribe page URL last time - SORRY! -Matt]
Dear Listers,
I've just added four new email Lists to the current lineup at
Matronics. These new lists include:
KRNet:
krnet-List(at)matronics.com The RANS KR1 and KR2 Series
Cub:
cub-List(at)matronics.com The Piper J-3 Cub
RV10:
rv10-List(at)matronics.com The New 4-place RV from Van's!
Europa:
europa(at)matronics.com The Slick European Composite
All the usual features are available with the new Lists including the
search engine, archive download, 7-day List browse, and PhotoShare!
To sign up for any or all of the new lists, please go to the List
Subscription page and put in your email address and select the Lists of
your choice. The URL for the Subscription page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Don't forget that its your posts that generate traffic on the respective
Lists! Post an introduction and a description of your project or dreams!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud <RV-6(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Warnke Props BAD |
CONSIDERING A WARNKE PROP ?
I urge you to reconsider
I ordered a prop from Margie Warnke on 10/09/01. I was promised delivery
in 12 weeks. I made a special point of asking will I really have the
prop in 12 weeks because my airplane was grounded in the mean time. I
was assured I would have it in 12 weeks. It arrived on 5/2/02 seven
months later and four months over due. It wasn't supposed to take four
months from the beginning. And I was supposedly given special
consideration because I was grounded. She insists on full payment up
front so you have little recourse.
Margie Warnke is a horrible person to do business with. She continuously
lied about the progress of the prop. To the very end she told me on a
Friday it was done and would be shipped that day. Then I was told
whoever does her shipping missed the deadline so it didn't get shipped.
It wasn't shipped until Tuesday. That's a pretty big miss.
Of course when I got it, it wasn't finished. It had to be tried then
sent back for fine-tuning. When I shipped it back I was told I would
have it back in two weeks, it took four. Better than I expected.
But the worst part is when I got it back it was terrible. It shook the
airplane badly, even at idle. Initial acceleration was dismal and climb
was down 300 fpm. This was after she repitched it to increase the RPMs.
Now she won't return my calls.
After leaving several massages on her machine she had someone else call
me back to tell me she wasn't available for at least 45 days because
they are moving to Alaska. After a couple of weeks the message on her
machine hadn't changed (leave a message and I'll get back to you)
nothing about being unavailable or moving. So I decided to leave another
message with a different name and my cell number. What do you know she
call back the same day. Now she lies some more, claimes she hasn't
gotten the letter I sent over a month earlier with the performance
numbers and a request for my money back. She said it's because the mail
is being forwarded to Alaska but she called me from Arizona.
This tale could take up several pages. It's been a maddening experience
that I wouldn't wish on anybody.
Buyer beware.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marc" <borommarc(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Warnke Props BAD |
Things haven't changed.
I think it may be useful for some to learn of my experience with Margie
Warnke Propellers. The experience has been a very disappointing and
disturbing one. After four months of testing and tweaking without achieving
the claimed performance, Margie Warnke took the unfinished prop back with a
promise to refund my money. She has kept the unfinished prop and has kept
my money ($950). I just got a court judgment against her today for the full
amount plus court charges. This interaction has gone on for more than a
year and is not yet over. I still have neither a refund nor a prop.
I would, based on my experience, not recommend her services to anyone.
Here are some of the details.
In April of 2000 I talked with Margie Warnke of Tucson and she assured me
that her propeller could easily gain me 25 mph in speed over what I was
achieving with my Great American prop (now out of business). I said,
"Great. Let's do it.". Warnke advertises in Sport Aviation and touts a
"Satisfaction Guaranteed" offer.
Instead of the promised 5 week delivery, I finally received my prop (in a
rough state) for testing after waiting almost 16 weeks. Then came the
debacle of bolthole drilling. The first bolt circle was drilled too small.
The second bolt circle was drilled to the correct dimensions and offset by
30 degrees (are you counting? That's 12 holes in the hub). The 30 degree
offset prevented the spinner from fitting. A third bolt circle was drilled
with the correct dimensions and in the same alignment as the first and
smaller bolt circle. The drill wandered. The third bolt circle had to then
be drilled oversized, re-filled with epoxy and re-drilled to size. That's
18 holes in the same hub. I was assured by Warnke that this was
structurally sound. Who was I to say?? I am not a prop manufacturer.
My first takeoff was a near disaster. During static runup the prop achieved
2340 rpm, but it dropped to 2210 on roll out. The plane was reluctant to
rotate. After rotation, the plane initially climbed out at a scary 100 fpm.
Cruise speed was 150 kts - 5 kts less than my Great American. After two
prop "tweakings" the cruise speed got to 155 kts - equal to but not greater
than
the Great American, and certainly far below the promised speed increase of
25 mph. As I recalled, the test was going to be - take my Great American
off, and put her magic "Air Claw" on, and the improvement, with proper
tweaking, would be dramatic. Didn't work that way. I had gained access to
Warnke's physical worksite, and I thought our interactions had all been
cordial and mutually educational. She, however, ended up blaming the less
than dramatic performance of her prop on my "weak engine" and "draggy
airframe". I, however, think that 155 kts TAS cruise with a Lyc O-235C1 and
my old prop is not shabby for a "weak engine" and a "draggy airframe".
In November, 2000 Warnke said she wanted "her" prop back and that she would
return my money. I returned the prop and never received any refund. I
finally had to take her to court over the money and won a full judgment
against her on May 8, 2001 - more than a year after I first ordered the
prop. I had my checks to her sent to me and got her banking information as
to where she banks or what her social security number is. After I finally
garnisheed her bank account, she paid up.
I have heard similar stories from other people (out of state) who have dealt
with Warnke. Their problem is that
they can't take her to Small Claims court without filing in Tucson. I guess
you could say that the courts protect the accused even when they are the
offenders.
She ordinarily deals with her customers through a Mail Box Etc. mailing
address and a voice mail system. I
will never again deal with a manufacturer who has an unlisted manufacturing
site and an unlisted personal phone number and home address.
Caveat emptor.
Marc Borom
LongEZ
N966EZ
Ryan Field
Tucson, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bud" <RV-6(at)attbi.com>
Subject: EZ-List: Warnke Props BAD
>
> CONSIDERING A WARNKE PROP ?
>
> I urge you to reconsider
>
>
> I ordered a prop from Margie Warnke on 10/09/01. I was promised delivery
> in 12 weeks. I made a special point of asking will I really have the
> prop in 12 weeks because my airplane was grounded in the mean time. I
> was assured I would have it in 12 weeks. It arrived on 5/2/02 seven
> months later and four months over due. It wasn't supposed to take four
> months from the beginning. And I was supposedly given special
> consideration because I was grounded. She insists on full payment up
> front so you have little recourse.
>
> Margie Warnke is a horrible person to do business with. She continuously
> lied about the progress of the prop. To the very end she told me on a
> Friday it was done and would be shipped that day. Then I was told
> whoever does her shipping missed the deadline so it didn't get shipped.
> It wasn't shipped until Tuesday. That's a pretty big miss.
>
> Of course when I got it, it wasn't finished. It had to be tried then
> sent back for fine-tuning. When I shipped it back I was told I would
> have it back in two weeks, it took four. Better than I expected.
>
> But the worst part is when I got it back it was terrible. It shook the
> airplane badly, even at idle. Initial acceleration was dismal and climb
> was down 300 fpm. This was after she repitched it to increase the RPMs.
> Now she won't return my calls.
>
> After leaving several massages on her machine she had someone else call
> me back to tell me she wasn't available for at least 45 days because
> they are moving to Alaska. After a couple of weeks the message on her
> machine hadn't changed (leave a message and I'll get back to you)
> nothing about being unavailable or moving. So I decided to leave another
> message with a different name and my cell number. What do you know she
> call back the same day. Now she lies some more, claimes she hasn't
> gotten the letter I sent over a month earlier with the performance
> numbers and a request for my money back. She said it's because the mail
> is being forwarded to Alaska but she called me from Arizona.
>
> This tale could take up several pages. It's been a maddening experience
> that I wouldn't wish on anybody.
>
> Buyer beware.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CMcdougal(at)aol.com |
Matt,
I am signed up for both the EZ and the Glassair Digest. I get an email
every day that says 0 messages. Is this correct?
Charlie McDougal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mprather(at)spro.net |
That does seem strange. You might want to check you message
preferences on the yahoo web page (groups.yahoo.com). There
are several options available. Good luck!
Matt-
----- Original Message -----
From: CMcdougal(at)aol.com
Date: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 5:01 am
Subject: EZ-List: 0 messages
>
> Matt,
> I am signed up for both the EZ and the Glassair Digest. I get an
> email
> every day that says 0 messages. Is this correct?
> Charlie McDougal
>
>
> _-
>
- The EZ-List Email Forum -
> _-
>
!! NEW !!
> _-
>
List Related Information
> _-
>
=======================================================================
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Getting Bounced From Matronics Lists... |
Dear Listers,
I have two programs I run regularly to purge the various Matronics email
lists of bad email addresses. I referred to these as my Email Weasels and
there is a daily version that is run automatically every night at midnight
and there is a and a monthly version that I run by hand at roughly 30-day
intervals.
The Daily Weasel grinds through the 8 to 10mb of bounced email that is
generated each day looking for obvious things like "user unknown", "host
unknown", and other things that usually mean the user's email address
doesn't exist any longer. The Daily Weasel has been purging 5 to 10 email
addresses each night.
The Monthly Weasel gets more serious about the task and sends a single
message to each list member with specially generated headers and content
information. Any bounces or replies to these messages are considered
errors and the email address is eligible for purging. This program is
particularly useful for "weaseling out" email addresses that are actually
being forwarded to by another email address that is subscribed to a List
and otherwise would not be identifiable. The Monthly Weasel purges roughly
100 nonexistent email addresses each month when it is run.
To check to see if your address has been removed by either of the Email
Weasel programs, you can check the Weasel Status Web Page at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If you find your email address on the Weasel List, but are certain that
everything is working fine now, simply go the Matronics Subscription page
and resubscribe your address. No harm, no foul. The subscription URL is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
That all having been said, I've noticed that the Daily Weasel may have been
getting a little too aggressive in purging addresses recently and a number
of people have written asking if and why they'd been dropped from the List.
A couple of months ago I rewrote the Daily Weasel program to include a
wider variety of errors and more aggressively purge. One of the new purge
criteria that I added seems to occur a fair amount of the time (Connection
Deferred) even though the address is really okay.
As of today, I've removed the Connection Deferred criteria from the Daily
Weasel Rule set and this should decrease the number of "false positives"
and unnecessary unsubscribed.
Again, if you get unsubscribed by either of the Email Weasel utilities,
simply go to the subscription page and resubscribe:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gretz aero" <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
"Tailwind-List" ,
"RV-List" ,
"Rocket-List" ,
"Lancair-List" ,
"Glasair-List" ,
"EZ-List" ,
"AeroElectric-List" ,
"Avionics-List"
| Subject: | Gretz Aero at Copperstate |
Hello listers,
This is inform you that Gretz Aero will have a booth at Copperstate EAA Regional
Fly-In this year. The dates of the Fly-In are October 10, 11, 12, and 13th.
The Gretz Aero booth will be in booth spaces 11,12 and 13. Stop by and say hello.
We will have "show special" pricing on some popular items.
Copperstate is at a new location this year and is located south of the Phoenix metro area at the Phoenix Regional Grand Valley Airport (A39). Copperstate has a webpage at http://www.copperstate.org for more information.
You can visit the Gretz Aero webpage at http://www.gretzaero.com to get an idea of the Gretz Aero products before you arrive at Copperstate.
See you there!
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
720-308-0010 cell days
303-770-3811 home office, evenings and weekends
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
czech-list(at)matronics.com, europa-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com,
glasair-list(at)matronics.com, homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com,
kolb-list(at)matronics.com, kr-list(at)matronics.com, lancair-list(at)matronics.com,
pelican-list(at)matronics.com, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com,
piper-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com,
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, rv4-list(at)matronics.com, rv6-list(at)matronics.com,
rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, sonerai-list(at)matronics.com,
tailwind-list(at)matronics.com, ultralight-list(at)matronics.com,
warbird-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com,
zenith-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In |
EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In
Saturday, October 19, 2002, Hampton Roads Exec (PVG), Virginia, 9AM till
7PM
Hampton Roads Exec (PVG) is 27nm SW of Norfolk, Virginia (253 radial
?ORF)
AWOS 118.375
CTAF 123.0
The weather will be a perfect Virginia fall day!
Aircraft parking is off taxiway between Rwy 23 and T-Hangars East of
Airport Terminal
Schedule of Events
Fly-In Begins 9AM
Food all Day 10AM ? 3PM
Poker Run (Walk Around Field)
Project Visits on Field
Aircraft Judging 11AM ? 3PM, All Categories, Antiques, Classics,
Homebuilts, Warbirds
Social Hour 4PM
Dinner 5PM ? 7PM, BBQ Sandwiches, Chicken, Drinks
Local motels/hotels are available
For More Information
Frank Toy 757-460-3680
ftoy(at)att.net
Richard Reynolds 757-627-8743
rvreynolds(at)macs.net
EAA Chapter 339
http://home.earthlink.net/~avyator/
Hampton Roads Exec Airport
http://www.hamptonroadsexecutiveairport.com/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
czech-list(at)matronics.com, europa-list(at)matronics.com, ez-list(at)matronics.com,
glasair-list(at)matronics.com, homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com,
kolb-list(at)matronics.com, kr-list(at)matronics.com, lancair-list(at)matronics.com,
pelican-list(at)matronics.com, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com,
piper-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com,
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, rv4-list(at)matronics.com, rv6-list(at)matronics.com,
rv7-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com, sonerai-list(at)matronics.com,
tailwind-list(at)matronics.com, ultralight-list(at)matronics.com,
warbird-list(at)matronics.com, yak-list(at)matronics.com,
zenith-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In |
EAA Chapter 339 Fall Fly-In
Saturday, October 19, 2002, Hampton Roads Exec (PVG), Virginia, 9AM till
7PM
Hampton Roads Exec (PVG) is 13.5nm SW of Norfolk, Virginia (253 radial
(ORF)
AWOS 118.375
CTAF 123.0
The weather will really be a perfect Virginia fall day!
Aircraft parking is off taxiway between Rwy 23 and T-Hangars East of
Airport Terminal
Schedule of Events
Fly-In Begins 9AM
Food all Day 10AM - 3PM
Poker Run (Walk Around Field)
Project Visits on Field
Aircraft Judging 11AM - 3PM, All Categories, Antiques, Classics,
Homebuilts, Warbirds
Social Hour 4PM
Dinner 5PM - 7PM, BBQ Sandwiches, Chicken, Drinks
Local motels/hotels are available
For More Information
Frank Toy 757-460-3680
ftoy(at)att.net
Richard Reynolds 757-627-8743
rvreynolds(at)macs.net
EAA Chapter 339
http://home.earthlink.net/~avyator/
Hampton Roads Exec Airport
http://www.hamptonroadsexecutiveairport.com/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <etech(at)ucnsb.net> |
| Subject: | Free Panel Layout, No Obligation |
Hello Everyone!!
We here at Electronic Technologies in New Smyrna Beach Florida would like to offer you a free panel layout with no obligations at all. We can show you what your panel could or will look like. All ready have a panel and just need some equipment? We can sell you radios and other equipment at great prices because we are OEM with many manufacturers including Garmin, UPS Aviation Technologies/Apollo, BF Goodrich, Bose, Vision Microsystems, Electronics International, Chelton Flight Systems, TruTrak Flight Systems, PS Engineering, Kelly Manufacturing, Mid Continent, United Instruments and many others. We are also providing Four Winds Aircraft ( www.fourwindsaircraft.com ) with all of their panels, including their prototype panel. Just need a radio stack built? We can do that to!!! Want to build it yourself? We can provide you with all the wire, labels, equipment, wiring diagrams or anything else you need. Please visit our website, www.electronictechnologies.net , or email us at etech(at)ucnsb.net . You can also give us a call at the number below. Thanks a lot
Rick Case
Electronic Technologies
1501 Airway Circle
New Smyrna Beach, FL32168
(386) 426-1213
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <etech(at)ucnsb.net> |
,
, ,
,
| Subject: | GI-106A for sale |
Hello Everyone,
We have an extra GI-106A that belongs to a customer for sale. Has never been installed
or used. Still in original box with install kit and install manual.
Customer was going to get two CDIs, but decided to get an HSI and a CDI. Customer
asking $1398.37 plus S&H. We can pre-wire for a small additonal fee.
If interested, please call or email.
Rick Case
Electronic Technologies
1501 Airway Circle
New Smyrna Beach, FL 32168
(386) 426-1213
www.electronictechnologies.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <etech(at)ucnsb.net> |
, ,
, ,
,
| Subject: | Apollo GX-65 IFR Enroute GPS/Comm for sale |
Brand new unit, $2487.50. Install Kit and manuals included. Shipping and Handling
charges vary based on shipping method (i.e. next day air will be more than
ground). Other units available as well. Ask For Rick.
Electronic Technologies
1501 Airway Circle
New Smyrna Beach, FL 32168
(386) 426-1213
www.electronictechnologies.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2002 List Fund Raiser - Please Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
During November of each year, I have a voluntary Email List Fund Raiser to
support the continued operation, development, maintenance and upgrade of
the Email Forums sponsored here. Your Contributions go directly into
improvements in the systems that support the Lists and to pay for the
Internet connectivity primarily dedicated to supporting the Lists.
The traffic on the Lists continues to grow and the numbers are nothing
short of impressive! Here are some statistics that show much traffic the
Lists generated last year alone:
11/01/2001 - 10/31/2002
Web server hits: 8,700,000 (727,000/mo)
Incoming Email Posts: 51,259 (4,271/mo) *
* This number is multiplied by the total number of email addresses
subscribed to the given List. The actual number of email message processed
is in the 50,000,000 range for last year!!
The new Internet provider, Speakeasy, has been providing extremely fast and
reliable service over the last year, and this has certainly been a
refreshing change from previous providers!
There were a couple of new features added at the tail-end of last year
including the new List Browse Feature ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
), and the List Photoshare which have been both very popular. Many people
have written to say how much they enjoy the on-line browsing capability of
current week's messages. The 184 new Photoshares (
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ) added over the last year attests to
its acceptance and appreciation in the community as well.
I have upgraded both the email and web server OS systems recently to the
latest - well almost the latest - version of Redhat Linux and Kernel
2.4.19, both of which have been working very well and quite reliably.
What does the future hold? Well, something pretty exciting I'm
hoping... I am currently evaluating a new, commercially available software
package that runs under Linux and provides a complete web-based Email List
service akin to what those other guys use. The difference will be that
there won't be any annoying advertisements and popup ads on the Matronics
system!! The system will continue to be dedicated to furthering Lists
activities and not trying to sell you something you don't want. My hope is
to keep most if not all of the current functionality in place and add the
new software system over the top. Some of the system will be replaced
(like majordomo), but the lists will work much like they do today - only
BETTER! As I mentioned, I am currently in the evaluation stage of this and
have yet to select a final product. Suffice to say some facelifts are
definitely on the way!
Unlike many of the other "list servers" on the web these days, I have a
strict no-commercial-advertisement policy on the Matronics Lists and
associated List websites. I have been approached by a number of vendors
recently with advertising deals that have been very tempting. However, my
commitment to providing a grass-roots, non-commercial environment
prevails! Commercialism on the Internet seems to be increasing
exponentially every year with more and more SPAM and pop up ads, not to
mention the ever increasing Virus attacks. My goal with the Matronics List
Service is to provide my members with a commercial-free, safe, and
high-performance system in which to share information, ideas, and
camaraderie.
I recoup my upgrade, maintenance, and operating costs by having a List Fund
Raiser once a year during November. During this time, I ask List members
to donate a small amount of money to support the continued operation of the
Lists over the upcoming year. Contributions in the $20, $30, and $50 range
are common. This year I have completely revamped the Contribution website,
and have added the ability to use PayPal to make your Contribution in
addition to the traditional Visa/MC and Personal Check Options. Its easier
and faster than ever before to make your Contribution!! For those who are
accustomed to using PayPal to make Internet purchases, will appreciate the
ease and speed of using this handy method of payment to make their List
Contribution.
The best news this year, however, is that I have a couple of fantastic Gift
offers to support the List Fund Raiser! Andy Gold of The Builder's
Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ) will be generously donating a
FREE Jeppesen Flight Bag to anyone making a $50 or more List Contribution
during the Fund Raiser! This is a great bag and something you'll surely
what to get your hands on. Thanks Andy, for this great incentive!!
In addition to the great Flight Bag, I will also be offering a FREE
Matronics List Archive CDROM for a $50 or greater Contribution! This is a
complete set of archives for all Email Lists currently hosted by
Matronics. The Archives date back to the beginning of the each List. In
the case of the RV-List, for example, this includes archives all the way
back to 1990! That's about 133Mb alone! Also included on the CD is a copy
of Chip Gibbion's Windows Archive Search Utility and a precompiled
search-index for each archive on the CD.
Better yet?! You can get BOTH the Flight Bag AND the Archive CD for a
Contribution of $75 or more which is actually LESS than the combined retail
price on the two items!!! How can you go wrong? Get some great stuff AND
support your Lists at the same time!
Over the next month I'll be posting a few reminder messages about the List
Fund Raiser, and I ask for your patience and understanding during the
process. Remember that the Lists are *completely* funded through the
generous Contributions of its members. That's it! There's no support from
a bloated advertising budget or deep pockets somewhere. Its all made
possible through YOUR support!
I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who supports the
List this year. Your generosity contributes directly to the quality of the
experience here.
To make your List Contribution using a Visa or MasterCard, PalPal, or with
a Personal Check, please go to the URL link below. Here you can find
additional details on this year's great free Gifts as well as additional
information on the various methods of payment.
SSL Secure Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Again, I would like to thank everyone who supports the Lists this
year! Your Contributions truly make it all possible!!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New List Digest Feature!! [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
I've added a new feature to the Digest format of the Lists tonight. At the
top of each digest you will find a new Index Listing of all of the messages
found within that Digest including the Message Number, Subject, Poster, and
Time of Day posted.
I've also added a "Message Number" header to each message within the Digest
so that its easy to find 'just the message' you were looking for!
Sorry for the double posting of the digests tonight - the first time I
didn't quite have the code right and a few "bogus" entries made it into the
Index. I went ahead and reposted the Digest so that everyone could see how
the Index-to-Message mapping really worked.
Special 'thanks' to Gary Hall for not only suggesting a Digest Index, but
also supplying a few samples on how it might look. Gary, I think you'll be
quite pleased with the format!
Don't forget that were right in the middle of this year's List Fund Raiser
and if you haven't already made your Contribution, you own it to yourself
to check out the great free Gifts that are available this year with your
qualifying Contribution.
The Lists are operated completely though the support of it members, and so
its up to YOU to get that credit card out and make that $20, $30, or $50
show of support for the continued operation of the Lists.
Won't you take a couple of minutes and make a quick Contribution on the all
new, streamlined List Support web site? I've also added a
Payment-through-PayPal option this year, and this is proving a very popular
method of payment. Don't forget to check out the great free gifts you can
get with a qualifying Contribution this year. I can't believe how popular
they've been this year! Hurry and get your's today and support the Lists
at the same time!
Here's the SSL Secure URL for making your Contribution:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your Support!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser - What Listers Are Saying... |
Dear Listers,
First, I'd like say *thank you* to everyone that's already made a
Contribution to this year's List Fund Raiser! Thank you! If you haven't
already made a Contribution, won't you take a movement and show your
support for these valuable services? Since there's no advertising or other
forms of direct commercialism on the forums to support the Lists, its soley
YOUR GENEROSITY that keeps them running!!
Won't please take a minute and make a Contribution via the SSL secure web
site via Credit Card, Paypal, or personal check. Here's the URL:
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
This year, I've been getting some *really* nice comments from Contributors
and I thought I'd pass along a few of them below. What does the List mean
to *you*?
Thank you for your support!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
_________________ What your fellow Listers are saying... _________________
...great service!!
Greg B.
They have been a great assistance to me in building my RV-8.
Kevin H.
...very much appreciated.
Donald M.
Great site...
Angus F.
...invaluable resource.
Ronald C
[The List] has played a big part in continuing my project at
those times when I got stuck for some reason.
Jeff D.
Although I am only a reader, I find the list very helpful.
Oswaldo F.
The lists are a fantastic resource and are helping me very much...
Kenyon B.
The list is part of my life.
Ron C.
The CD will free up some hard disk space on my personal PC.
Jeff D.
...unbelievably useful.
Dan O.
...dependable and valued source of builder information.
Jerry C.
My daily lifeline!
Owen B.
...frequently get questions answered on the List.
Billy W.
Don't know how any first-time builder could get by without the lists.
Rick R.
...great source of information and motivation.
Jef V.
Super resource!
David P.
The information presented is very helpful to the building process.
James B.
Wonderful Service!
Wendell D.
The lists are great!
F. Robert M.
...very valuable to this builder.
William C.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser Continues... |
Marie Murillo
Dear Listers,
Just a quick reminder this morning that we're well into this year's Email
List Fund Raiser. Response has been great so far and there has been a lot
of interest in the Gift options. Speaking of those Gifts, I received a
sample of the Jeppesen Flight Bag from Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com this weekend, and let me just say that this is
an extremely fine quality unit. Its very light, folds down into a very
small form for storage, and will hold a whole lot of your "pilot
stuff"! For a mere $50 List Contribution, one of these very nice bags
could be yours! You'll be the envy of all your friends.
Won't you make a Contribution today to support the these valuable Email
List Services? Please remember that its YOUR generosity that entirely
supports the continued operation and upgrade of the Lists. That's it - no
ads, no banners - just good clean fun; that is, with your support of course!
Please take a moment and make a generous Contribution today. It only takes
a minute using the newly redesigned Contribution Web Site where you can use
either a Credit Card, PayPal, or a Personal Check to make your donation.
The URL for the SSL Secure Contribution web site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
And I'd like to say a special "thank you!" to everyone one who has made
Contribution so far this year!! I really appreciate your generosity!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rv6tc" <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Long EZ information |
Posting for a friend.....
Does anyone have any web sites for someone interested in Long-EZ's?
Also any -EZ bulilders/flyers in the DC area?
Thanks,
Keith Hughes
RV-6
Denver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walt Beaulieu <sabrewalt(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Long EZ information |
www.ez.org
www.canard.com
--- rv6tc wrote:
>
>
> Posting for a friend.....
>
> Does anyone have any web sites for someone
> interested in Long-EZ's?
>
> Also any -EZ bulilders/flyers in the DC area?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Keith Hughes
> RV-6
> Denver
>
>
>
> Month --
> Gifts!)
> Click on the Contribution
> Terrific Free Gifts!
> Dralle, List Admin.
> _->
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walt Beaulieu <sabrewalt(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Long EZ information |
--- rv6tc wrote:
>
>
> Posting for a friend.....
>
> Does anyone have any web sites for someone
> interested in Long-EZ's?
>
> Also any -EZ bulilders/flyers in the DC area?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Keith Hughes
> RV-6
> Denver
>
>
>
> Month --
> Gifts!)
> Click on the Contribution
> Terrific Free Gifts!
> Dralle, List Admin.
> _->
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Girard <fly.ez(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Long EZ information |
Yeah, Canard.com will get you to a forum dedicated to all types of
canard aircraft (of which the majority of participants are LongEZ
builders and owners). If you want to know something about the Long,
that's the place that has the most traffic.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
Wow, I can't belive some of the nice things people have been saying about
the Lists in that little message box on the Contribution form! I've
included more of the great comments since the last WLAS. Thank you to
everyone that has made a Contribution thus far and for all the great
feedback! Please know that I really appreciate the comments and support!!
Have a look at some of your fellow members thoughts below and decide if the
Lists mean at least that much to you or perhaps even more...
Won't you take a moment and make a Contribution to support these
Commercial-Free, SPAM-Free, Virus-Free, high-performance List
services? Its your direct support through this yearly Fund Raiser that
enables all of these valuable services you've come to expect of the
Matronics Lists.
Thank you for your Contribution!!
SSL Secure Web Site - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Matt Dralle
EMail List Administrator
=====================================================================
=================== What Listers Are Saying - II ====================
=====================================================================
I check this List 4 to 5 times a day...
-Bruce B.
These are without a doubt among the best managed
Lists to which I subscribe.
-Terry W.
Thank you for providing such a wonderful service.
-Roy W.
...fine service!
-Christopher A.
Best list on the Internet!
-Geroge A.
Great list with a host of features.
-David A.
Having built part of a kit... ...I know exactly how
much this list means to me and others.
-Curtis H.
As always... you've got a real cool & very useful
service going...
-Chuck R.
I shudder to think of the trouble I would have had
getting this project airborne without this list!
-Grant C.
...enjoy everyone's input.
-Doug P.
I read the [the List] every day...
-Ronald S.
Whenever I feel like not building on my day
off....I open my mail and the [the List] gets me
pumped and ready to hit it!
-Tom E.
The Digest Message subject list is an excellent
addition.
-Kevin S.
Certainly the [the List] has been a valuable source
for building support and advice, but there's another
benefit,... the wonderful friends that we meet and
keep for years and years!
-Fred H.
What a great forum to exchange ideas and info.
-Terry L.
The List is my daily RV fix.
-Neil H.
I always received comments and suggestions when
I requested them.
-Thomas G.
Best resource a builder could ever have. A daily
must!
-Robert C.
Thanks for your gift - these web sites!
-Tom P.
...great info.
-Richard W.
The List empowers all RV builders to achieve success...
-Mark G.
I've been reading the postings for a month now and
decided to take the plunge as a result of the
helpfulness and spirit of cooperation I observed.
-Tim P.
...invaluable service.
-Ford F.
I check in at least twice daily for my e-mail "Fix".
-John S.
Its worth every penny of my contribution.
-Paul M.
Wonderful web site and it keeps getting better.
-Jim H.
A valuable list which has certainly helped me.
-Andrew G.
...the List helps so many.
-Don J.
I really appreciate the site and find it interesting
to speak to people who are into this type of aircraft.
-Larry M.
This is a great recreation for me.
-Larry B.
[The List] keeps me up to date and provides a fantastic
resource for information.
-Terry F.
Lists are a great resource!
-Daniel S.
...great service and professional administration of
the Lists.
-Chris R.
I really appreciate the List.
-Edward O.
Worth every penny, and then some!
-Kenyon B.
...great service.
-Ralph H.
Your unselfish contribution to the experimental
aircraft movement is very much appreciated!
-Alex M.
Great help on the Aeroelectric list.
-Bruce B.
It helps on a daily basis.
-Tim G.
Thanks for providing this outstanding service to us!
-Michel T.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | LOC Coming Soon... |
Dear Listers,
This year's List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner. I'll be
posting the LOC on or about December 1. The List of Contributors is a
directory of everyone's name that made a Contribution during this year's
List Fund Raiser. Its kind of my way of publicly thanking everyone that so
generously made a Contribution to support the continued operation and
upgrade of these Lists.
Support your Lists today and make sure that your name is on the upcoming
LOC! Your friends will be checking no doubt to see if YOU make your
Contribution because THEY did! :-)
Support Contribution Info - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? |
Dear Listers,
I got to thinking today that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund
Raiser and also take the opportunity to express why I think the List
Services here provide a far better experience than the commercial
equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with
running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the
annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I
have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the
members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to
sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From
the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great
majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List
systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage
members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer a great many
benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first
feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you *cannot*
receive a computer v*rus from any of my Lists directly. I've been on a few
other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected
files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their
posts. This just can't happen with my Lists; each incoming message is
filtered and attachments stripped off prior to posting. I provide a Photo
and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with
other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be
prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and
simple. Also, with this photo and file sharing technique, the Archives
don't get loaded up with a huge amounts of bitmap "data" that slows the
Archive Search times.
Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are
available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the
way back to the very beginning of each List and with the super fast Search
Engine, the huge size of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the
data you're looking for. Another feature of the Archives, in my opinion,
is that they have been primarily stripped of all the useless email header
data and all the other header garbage that seems to build up in a typical
email thread.
I have received an extremely positive response from Listers regarding the
List Browse feature and the consensus is that the format and ease of use is
outstanding. Members report that having the previous 7 days worth of
messages online for easy browsing and sorting is hugely beneficial. And
again, as with the real time distribution of List email, the messages are
stripped of all the unnecessary email headers and potentially dangerous
v*ruses. I am currently working on the additional ability to post and/or
reply directly from the List Browse interface. More on this upcoming
feature in the next week or so.
I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain
since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys who I knew and who where
also building RVs. It has grown into over 40 different aviation-related
Email Lists and an associated web site that receives over 9,000,000 hits
each year!! Additionally, the List email system forwards well over
50,000,000 (yes, that 50 MILLION) email messages to subscribers each
year! With all the dot.bombs these days, I think there's a lot of value in
supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and
improving a high quality service at a price that's nearly free.
I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows
in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email
Message, Search the Archives, or use the List Browser. The Lists will be
here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free,
that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and
receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual
List Fund Raiser!
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
------------------------------------------
The SSL Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
We are quickly approaching the end of November and the official end of the
List Fund Raiser. If you look forward to checking your List email everyday
(and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably
getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each
year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some lame magazine or
even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to
you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that same amount and get a
well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to
think of it, you do... :-)
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support
YOUR Lists.
Contribution Page:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution
thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made
possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Fund Raiser Free Gift Shipping Status... |
Dear Listers,
A couple of people have written asking what the shipping status was of
their free List Contribution Gifts. Seemed like some status was in order
and I thought I detail where we're at...
Flight Bag Requests
-------------------
On 11/20/02 I shipped out the first batch of Flight Bag-Only (FBO) gift
requests. I shipped all FBO gift requests I had received from 11/1 to
11/19 except for 3 (Sorry guys!) - I ran out of my first shipment flight
bags! Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com
) is supplying me with another batch flight bags which should arrive in
about 2 weeks.
By the way, these are REALLY nice Flight Bags. Extremely well built and
very professional looking. Folds down into a very small size, but will
hold a huge amount of stuff. If you fly, and you've got a lot of stuff,
they you WANT one of these guys. Surf over to the List Contribution page
for details on how to get one of your own!!!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
The Flight Bags have been shipped out US Mail Parcel Post in a large, and I
mean LARGE, padded white plastic envelope. According to the Post Office,
worse case delivery time would be 8 days to destinations on the East Coast,
but indicated it would likely take a lot less time.
Archive CDROM Requests
----------------------
The Archive CDROMs will be mastered and burned on or about December 1 and
should ship out shortly there after. Shipping will be US Mail, Media Rate
in a big padded white envelope. The Archive List data included will be up
to November 30th.
Flight Bag and Archive CDROM Requests
-------------------------------------
These combination orders will ship out when the Archive CDROMs are complete
as described above, likely a little after December 1. The Flight Bag and
the CDROM will be shipped together in the same Giant white padded envelope!
Again, I want to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore for providing
these awesome Flight Bags to support the List Fund Raiser. Andy has gone
way beyond the call of duty with regard to his support of the Lists this
year and to show your gratitude I would ask that you have a look at his web
site and great media offerings. You'll find some excellent deals on some
very useful material. http://www.buildersbooks.com
And finally, I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a
Contribution so far this year! Your generosity and kindness is greatly
appreciated. If you've been putting off making a Contribution, now's a
great time show your appreciation in plenty of time to make it onto this
year's List of Contributors AND get your free gift with qualifying
Contribution!!!
List Contribution Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution/
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | All New List FAQs! |
Dear Listers,
I got to looking at the Email List FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) today
and realized that they where miserably out of date. I spent a wad of time
today completely revising them and adding in documentation on all of the
many new features such as the List Browse and Photoshare. Many of the
little-known features are documented in there now, too, so even if you're a
seasoned List veteran, you might want to give it a read. Never know what
you might discover.
At the bottom of this message in the Trailer you will find a new link item
called "List FAQ" with a URL for this specific List. Just click on it and
print it out or read it online.
Don't forget that November is the List Fund Raiser month! The "2002 List
of Contributors" is just days away and I know you'll want to make sure your
name is on it!! Please make your Contribution today to support the
continued operation of these List Services!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
There are only a few days left until the November List of Contributors. I
thought I'd take another opportunity to pass along some of the really nice
things people have been saying recently about the Lists and how much they
mean to them.
If you receive value from the Lists in the form of ideas, assistance,
comradery, moral support, inspiration, or just plain 'ol good
entertainment, then won't take a moment to make a Contribution to support
the continued operation and upgrade of them?
Secure List Contribution Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
What does the List mean to you? Here's what some of your fellow
contributing List members have said...
------------------------- What Listers Are Saying -------------------------
Great service for aviation types like me.
Larry H
Best investment I've made.
Harley B
I've been on this list since around 1996 and used it to
help me finish my RV-6A three years ago. I'm still here
because I still learn from it and use it to help others
like me who may be where nobody else is building a RV.
Thanks for your service to our community. It's appreciated.
Jim S
[List] people are a great break away from politics, religion
and other sordid subjects.
Robert B
This site is a great confidence builder for the amateur builder.
Gene L
Great service!
Barry P
Very handy list to have, a good place for a beginner to
get great answers from those who already experienced it.
...sure enjoy reading it.
Joel R
...valuable service!
Chris & Indira K
This is the better than any morning paper - the best and
most frequent service that I use on the Internet. Great
job! This will make building the RV doable for me.
Pete E
I enjoy all of the ideas, suggestions and humor that comes
with this list. I don't think I could build my RV4 with
out everyone's help.
Ross S
GRRRRRRRRRRRREAT!
James W
The list is a great source of information, motivation,
entertainment, passionate debate, and light-hearted back
slapping. I wouldn't be without it.
Roger H
...would still be looking for plans to hook-up s-tec auto
pilot without your service!
David S
The new [digest] format is good.
Graham S
Great information you can't get anywhere else. Lots of nice
people who have "Been there...done that."
George D
My normal morning routine:
1 Kiss "the princess"
2 Good cup of coffee
3 Log onto "List"
A wonderful means of exchanging ideas, asking questions,
gathering information, and sharing experiences.
Robert G
Great lists. Not only are the lists professionally and efficiently
managed, but the *people* on the lists are very helpful, friendly
and fun to chat with. Thank you for this wonderful resource.
Ihab A
Thanks a million, well maybe not a million!!! (:
Ken H
I need this fix every morning or I get grumpy...
Wayne P
Very useful lists
Paul E
This communication medium that you created, nurtured and
continue to maintain is the best thing since AN rivets!
Jim J
The information I gleaned off the list has always been
helpful.
Kenneth B
I've been a subscriber to varied lists for several years
now. The knowledge provided has been extremely useful
throughout.
David P
Enjoy everyone's input even though I am not a
builder...just a flyer.
Douglas P
Just laughin' and a scratchin'
Dennis N
It is a real asset and good for comic relief.
Ross S
I can't build my plane without your service!
Kent H
Great info on the lists!
Wesley H
I'm very new to the List but have already benefited
greatly.
Jim S
The "List" has been my best source for information
concerning my aviation projects. Besides, it also
brings a bunch of people together to share their
interests and knowledge. Thanks for providing a
state of the art, easy to use resource tool.
David A
I have saved a lot of grief and dollars from referencing
this site. It is truly an extension of Van's product
support.
Joseph C
Terrific asset this List is to the builder!
Scott J
Great service!
Tony B
Look forward to the list each and every day.
John B
I could not cope up here in this lonely island without
the help of the List and all the wonderful helpful
people that have the experience of aircraft building
and flying for fun.
Johann J
This list is part of my daily routine. I'm addicted.
Terry D
Great forum!
John H
This list is my main interest in the Internet.
George R
Great list. The best out there on any subject.
Kevin H
Been on the list since 1998 and I still look forward to
reading the list every day. A most valuable tool. I have
picked up many useful tips during the construction of
my RV-4.
Jerry I
Thanks for all of your hard work on the lists. It is
one of the reasons I bought a CJ-6A. Without the
Yak-list, I believe it would have been much more
difficult to get all the information that I need
for safe operation and maintenance of this fine
aircraft.
David L
The List has been an amazing source of useful
information. I consider it one of my best builder
tools.
Gunter M
An excellent channel of information. I have gained a
wealth of knowledge on both building and flying Kolb
aircraft.
Jim B
Enjoy the wealth of information that is shared.
Richard N
Fine service.
Beauford T
[The] List is the first stop of the day. Made lot of
friends from it.
Orie S
The information I gleaned off the List has always been
helpful.
Kenneth B
Over the 3+ years that I have been building, I check it
several times each day. I have learned a lot of very
useful tips that have helped me in my building.
Richard D
Not only is it worth a contribution for the info gleaned
from it but the personalities alone are pure entertainment!
Stephen F
This is great stuff!!! Entertaining, too!! Fast answers
from those who really know...
Bob R
I am building an RV-9A and have received help from
the lists and occasionally been able to give help to
others.
Alden Van W
This list has saved me countless hours of work and worry
already, and I'm only halfway there! Undoubtedly the most
important aid I have yet found in this sometimes
intimidating process of building an aircraft.
Paul H
I've been a member since '96 and have learned so much from
the vast knowledge of the listers.
Gary Z
Outstanding List, exceptionally maintained.
David S
Thanks for all the improvements you've made this year. The
Photoshare feature definitely proves "one picture is worth
a thousand words".
Richard H
I finished my RV6A this year. It is a much better airplane
because of the help I found on the RV and Aeroelectric
Lists.
Dale W
Can't imagine building without the list.
Larry H
The list continues to be a great resource of information
and advice.
Jeff O
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New Gift Selection Added - List Fund Raiser! [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
I've just added a great new last minute Gift Selection to this year's List
Fund Raiser line up! I have a very limited number of sets of a wonderful
collection of Aircraft Technical books by Jeppesen entitled "The A&P
Technical Series Book Set". This is a great opportunity to make a generous
Contribution to support the Lists and walk away with a great set of
reference manuals at the same time.
This set of books normally retails for over $117 PLUS shipping, but you can
pick up your set AND make this year's List Contribution for a cool C-note -
that's a $100, by the way! :-) I'm thinking "Great Christmas Gift"...
There's more information on the books and making your Contribution at the
List Contribution web site:
Email List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
We're coming close to the official end of this year's List Fund Raiser and
if you haven't yet made your Contribution, there's still time get your name
on that List of Contributors! The percentage of contributors is kind of
low this year but I'm hoping many of you are just holding out until the
last minute!
I want to thank each and everyone of you that has already made a donation
to support the continued operation and upgrade of these List Services. As
I've mentioned in the past, running these Lists is a labor of love for me
and the hours upon hours of code development, system maintenance, and
upgrades are MY Contribution to support this great resource for Builders
and Flyer's alike. Won't your take a minute and make YOUR Contribution today?
I want to thank you for your support both during the Fund Raiser but also
throughout the year in the form of kind words and moral support. A nice
comment from a List member about how much the lists have helped them is
always a sure way to brighten my day!
Thank you to all!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ!] "What is my Contribution used for?" |
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What is my Contribution used for?", and this is a valid
question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support
enables. It provides for the expensive, business-class, high-speed
Internet connection used on the List, insuring maximum performance and
minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays for the regular
system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance
possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine and List
Browser. It pays for 14+ years worth of online archive data available for
instant random access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing,
developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List
Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, and Photoshare.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and
your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from
moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer
viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements
about these days? I will venture to say - next to none...
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many desirable aspects
of this most valuable List service. Please support it today with your List
Contribution. Its the best investment you can make in your Sport - BAR NONE!
Email List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
This is the last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser. Based on previous
year's percentages of Lister's making a Contribution, this year we are
nearly 40% behind the normal... And I thought all those great gifts would
eke the percentage up past the average a little. Oh well. Maybe people
just don't really mind the flashing banner ads for Viagra, and popups for
X10 minicams...
There's still plenty of time to get your name of the List of
Contributors. I'll probably publish the LOC on Monday night after I
process the checks from the Post Office.
I do want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so
far this year. Your support is greatly appreciated and is what makes the
Lists possible.
How to support your Lists this month: http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | All New List Digest Format!! |
Dear Listers,
I've just finished up some awesome code that will completely change your
thinking about how email Digests should work and look! Yeah, I'm kind of
proud of it, that is true... :-)
What you'll be getting in the new List Digest message is the
following: The main message will contain the new text-based index I
introduced a few weeks back. But here's where things get
different... Instead of simply including all of the day's posts in line
within the message, there will now be included two enclosures - one with a
HTML encoded version of the Digests, and another with the usual text-only
version of the Digests.
I think you're really going to like the new HTML enclosure of the
Digests. All of the Indexes at the top are now hyperlinked to the actual
posts and there are hyperlinks at the top of each post that will:
o Take you back to the Index
o Take you to the next post
o Take you to the previous post
o Allow you to respond to the LIST regarding the message
o Allow you to respond directly to the POSTER regarding the message
You'll have to check it out to appreciate the full goodness of the new
format! :-)
The text-only version is basically exactly the same data that has been
normally sent in line within the message.
You'll also note that the filenames of the enclosures are such that they
can be conveniently placed in a personal "archive" directory for future
reference.
Hope you enjoy the new Digest format!!!
Oh, and don't forget about the Fund Raiser! :-)
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | New, NEW List Digest Format... |
Dear Listers,
Okay, so I woke up this morning to an email box full of hate-mail about the
new List Digest format. I thought it was cool, but I guess not... Still,
it seemed like too much code to just throw out, so I've modified things a
little and I'm hoping everyone will be happy with the new, NEW
arrangement. Here's how it works now:
o The HTML and TXT enclosures aren't sent in the Digest any longer.
o URL Links to the HTML and TEXT versions of the day's Digests
will be found at the top of the digest email.
o The new Digest Index will be found at the top of the digest email
following the URL Links.
o The full digest text will then be found in the email as before.
o All of the previous Digests will now be available on line. The
URL for the main digest page is:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
From here, you can drill into the specific List Digest of interest.
o Both the HTML and TXT versions of the Digests can be found here.
o The List Message Trailer will contain a Link directly to the given
o Right now there's only one Digest shown, but each day there will
be another. They will be sorted with the newest at the top.
Left-hand column is the HTML version, right-hand column the TXT
version.
A couple people also complained that some messages in the HTML version were
just one long line that went off to the right forever and they hated
that. Come to think of it, this is also an issue in the Search Engine,
List Browser, and Archive Browser. Some email programs don't included hard
Returns at regular intervals and that's what causes this. I wrote a
program tonight that will automatically chop these long lines into 78
characters or less and wrap the rest of the line. After tonight's Archive
transfer, all of the Searching and Browsing tools shouldn't have the
problem any longer either. Woo hoo!
So, back to the new Digest format. What people are going to see in the
new, NEW Digest is a bit of verbiage at the top of the email describing the
URL links to the HTML and TXT on-line versions, followed by the Links,
followed by the day's Index, followed by the day's messages just as
before. Lines longer than 78 characters will also be automatically wrapped
onto the next line.
Hopefully this will be a more pleasing arrangement for everyone. Sorry to
get everybody so stirred up over the format change!
The List of Contributors is coming out tomorrow night... Still time to
make that Contribution! http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 7-Day Matronics List Browse Enhancement... |
Dear Listers,
Neil Hulin of the Zenith-List at Matronics wrote to me suggesting I add a
"total of available messages" column to the 7-Day List Browse Main page,
and it seemed like a great idea! I've made the modifications and I think
many will find it extremely helpful as well. Have a look at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse/
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin...
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics ISP Upgrade TODAY... |
Dear Listers,
The time has finally arrived for the Internet Service Provider (ISP)
upgrade! You'll recall that I was looking into upgrading the existing SDSL
connection from 768k to 1.1M. As it turned out, the copper line wouldn't
support any speeds greater than the current 768k. In light of that news, I
just bit-the-bullet and ordered a full, commercial-grade T1
connection. The T1 connection will provide a full-duplex, high priority,
1.5Mb Internet connection which should be a substantial performance
enhancement for all of the List services!
Pacbell delivered the T1 Loop last week and it tested out fine. This past
weekend I pulled the tail circuit from the demark to the office. This
afternoon, Tuesday 4/1/03, the ISP is suppose come and install the new
router and bring up routing on a test subnet. Assuming that everything
checks out okay with the T1, new router, and routing, I will have them
swing the main Matronics subnet off the SDSL and onto the T1. In theory,
the swing could be nearly transparent to users, but that's usually not the
case... ;-)
Please expect a bit of instability in connectivity this afternoon as we
work though the transition issues. I will post a follow up message when
everything is up and running on the new T1 line.
Finally, please know that it is solely your Contributions that make these
kinds of List upgrades happen! There is no advertising budget (aka,
flashing banner ads and annoying pop up browser windows) to pay these
bills; operational support is solely from List members like you during the
yearly List Fund Raiser. If you would like to make your Contribution to
support the Lists and upgrades like this T1 connectivity enhancement,
please see the List Contribution Web Site where you can make your
Contribution with a Credit Card, PayPal, or Personal Check. You can even
get a free List Archive CDROM with a qualifying List Contribution! The URL
is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thanks again to EVERYONE that made a generous Contribution last year and
enabled this awesome upgrade to T1 service!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics ISP Upgrade COMPLETED! |
Dear Listers,
I just wanted to send out a quick note to let everyone know that the 1.5Mb
T1 connection upgrade went smoothly today. They brought up the new line
and router yesterday on a test subnet and today the ISP switched over
connectivity about 12 noon with little to no incident. I just finished
some performance testing, and it appears that actual throughput and
interactive response is noticeably improved as advertised!
Enjoy!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Blum <bob(at)theblums.net> |
| Subject: | Lightspeed Electronic Ignition, O-320-H2AD mounting brackets |
Does anyone have any plans or drawings for mounting brackets to mount
the crank sensor for a Lightspeed electronic ignition on the engine immediately
behind the flywheel on an H2AD?
Thanks Bob Blum
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Grove City PA Flyin |
| From: | "Terry Lamp" <tlamp(at)genesishcs.org> |
05/05/2003 12:03:04 PM
Had a great time at the Grove City PA canard fly-in.
My first in my new Long EZ.
Thanks to Tim Mulvey and all the others for a great couple of days.
Special thanks to 29D Grove City airport for being so accommodating. First
class place with less than $2.00 gas.
Terry
Long EZ N977JT
Ohio
*************************************************************************
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The information contained in this e-mail message, including any
attachments, is intended only for use of the individual or entity
named above (addressee). This e-mail may contain information
that is privileged, confidential and/or otherwise exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, dissemination,
distribution, copying or other use of the communication or its
substance is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please reply to this e-mail indicating you are not the intended
recipient and immediately destroy all copies of this e-mail. Receipt
by anyone other than the intended recipient is not a waiver of any
privileged information.
**********************************************************************************
*eSafe scanned this email for viruses, vandals and malicious content*
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Scott.Fink(at)microchip.com> |
Please see the attached zip file for details.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EZ-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 06/26/03 |
| From: | "Terry Lamp" <tlamp(at)genesishcs.org> |
06/27/2003 10:35:33 AM
No file?
Terry
EZ-List Digest Server (at)matronics.com on
06/27/2003 02:56:07
Please respond to ez-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-ez-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: EZ-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 06/26/03
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete EZ-List Digest can be also be found in either
of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version of the EZ-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/ez-list/Digest.EZ-List.2003-06-26.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/ez-list/Digest.EZ-List.2003-06-26.txt
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
EZ-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Thu 06/26/03: 1
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:37 PM - Re: Movie ()
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: <Scott.Fink(at)microchip.com>
Subject: EZ-List: Re: Movie
Please see the attached zip file for details.
*************************************************************************
*****************Confidentiality Notice:******************************
*************************************************************************
The information contained in this e-mail message, including any
attachments, is intended only for use of the individual or entity
named above (addressee). This e-mail may contain information
that is privileged, confidential and/or otherwise exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, dissemination,
distribution, copying or other use of the communication or its
substance is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please reply to this e-mail indicating you are not the intended
recipient and immediately destroy all copies of this e-mail. Receipt
by anyone other than the intended recipient is not a waiver of any
privileged information.
**********************************************************************************
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
Please see the attached zip file for details.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <kbloewen(at)mts.net> |
Please see the attached zip file for details.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | New SPAM and Virus Filtering Appliance At Matronics... |
Dear Listers,
I will be installing a new SPAM and virus blocking appliance this
evening or tomorrow. The installation will involve some changes
in the Matronics DNS MX records, and will impact how incoming
email is handled. While I expect these changes to be transparent
to all of the List subscribers, things might go differently... ;-)
The Lists get bombarded with tons of SPAM messages and viruses
each day and fortunately my custom filters have been extremely
effective at filtering most of this from redistribution. Its
time to move to the next level of technology, however, and this
SPAM and Virus filtering appliance seems like an excellent
solution.
I will post a follow up message later in the week when things
have stabilized and I have some filter statistics to share.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RiteAngle3(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | % RiteAngle AOA owenrs |
Hello EZ aircraft builders. I know I have a few customers out there in your
ranks. If you are building an aircraft or flying your aircraft with the
RiteAngle AOA system I would appreciate personal photos of installation and
comments, positive or negative sent to me off list. Please state model of aircraft,
hours flown with RiteAngle AOA system and any suggestions.
Those who have questions re AOA please also contact me off list. I don't
want to use the list unless questions are asked that would apply to all.
address for contact: riteangle3(at)aol.com
There are several hundred RiteAngle systems out there and many owners have
changed e-mail addresses.
Thanks,
Elbie
Outstanding Customer Service is our Motto
If you like it let others know
If not let me know!
EM aviation, LLC
Elbie Mendenhall
President
13411 NE Prairie Rd
Brush Prairie, WA 98606
Phone & Fax 360-260-0772
www.RiteAngle.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] SPAM Filter Could Be Causing Posting Problems |
For Some Members...?
Dear Listers,
Matronics is now utilizing a SPAM filter appliance to filter out the
excessive amounts of inappropriate email that bombards the Email List
Forums each day. The filter is reporting that over 66% of the email
messages sent to Matronics email destinations are of SPAM content and
reviewing the logfiles, it would appear to be true. That is indeed great!
While the Lists are enjoying the breath of fresh air afforded by the new
appliance, I am suspecting that a few legitimate email List posts are being
blocked as too, although I can't confirm this. It is difficult to churn
through the logfiles looking though thousands of blocked email messages
trying to determine if any legitimate List posts were blocked.
If you suspect that your posts are accidently being blocked by the SPAM
filter appliance, I have created a new Trouble Report web page that will
allow you to report your problems directly to me without having to use
email. If the SPAM filter is blocking your email address for some reason,
then its likely that I wouldn't be able to receive your direct email
regarding difficulty in posting. The web form bypasses the incoming email
and directs your message directly to me.
Please include as much information as possible regarding the problems you
are having including any bounced email or email error messages that you may
have received back in regard to your posts to the lists. The more
information I have about the email you are sending and what the errors you
are receiving, the better chance I'll have in hunting down the problem.
The Trouble Report Website URL is:
http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report/
I apologize for any inconvenience the SPAM filter may be causing you. I
will work toward resolving your issues as quickly as possible.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | All New Matronics Email List Online Chat!!! |
Hi Listers!
A number of Listers have been asking for some Matronics Email List online
chat and NOW ITS HERE! Over the last couple of days I've set up a nifty
web-based Chat site here on the Matronics systems. No special programs to
download; all you need is a late model web browser like Internet Explorer
or Netscape with a java plugin. I would recommend downloading the latest
Java plugin if you experience any problems getting the page to come
up. Here's a link to the Sun Java download
website. http://java.com/en/index.jsp Look for the green box with the
yellow arrow in the upper right corner. Before you bother, though, just
try you browser because it'll probably just work.
Each Email List on Matronics has its own "Room" and all rooms can easily be
accessed from the same client. In the Email List URL Trailer at the bottom
of each List message, you'll find the Link to this List's specific Chat
Room. Just click on the Link, and then type in your name or email address
in the User Name box. Try to use a name or email address that the other
Listers know you by. You'll find me lurking around the various List chat
rooms as "MattDralle".
There's a couple of nifty features I'll explain right off. On the main
Chat Window page after you login, you'll see a little icon with a Hammer
and a Screwdriver. This is the Control Panel window. Once the Control
Panel comes up, click on the "Settings" tab. Here you'll find, among other
things, three check boxes to enable sound. Click all three and you'll be
treated to a sound whenever someone enters or leaves the Room, or when
someone sends a message.
The other cool button is the one that has four little arrows pointing to
each of the four corners of the button. This will rip the main Chat window
from the web page and allow you to resize and move it anyway you'd like.
Let's have some fun and get to know one another better using this awesome
new Chat Room! To get started, just click the URL Link below for this
List's specific Chat Room!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
PS - I'm working on a web link interface to the chat logfiles. Coming soon...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2003 List Fund Raiser - Please Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
During November of each year, I have a voluntary Email List Fund Raiser to
support the continued operation, development, maintenance and upgrade of
the Email Forums sponsored here. Your Contributions go directly into
improvements in the systems that support the Lists and to pay for the
Internet connectivity primarily dedicated to supporting the Lists.
The traffic on the Lists continues to grow and the numbers are nothing
short of impressive! Here are some statistics that show how much traffic
the Lists generated this year alone:
* 11/01/2002 - 10/31/2003
o Web server hits: 10,446,780 (870,565/mo)
o Incoming Email Posts: 58,918 (4,909/mo)
List-related upgrades this year have been plentiful, and List performance
has substantially improved as a result. Upgrades and enhancements this
year have included:
* Internet Connection upgrade to a full, commercial-grade T1 Line!
* New Web Server platform - Dual 3Ghz Xeon with 2Gb Ram and U320 SCSI!
* Upgrade of Email Server platform - Dual 1.7 Ghz Xeon with 1Gb Ram!
* All new SPAM Filtering Appliance - filters about 98% of the unwanted SPAM!
* All new, web-base List Chat Room society!
As you can well imagine, this year's upgrades translate into a fair amount
of cash outlay on my part and this annual List Fund Raiser is the sole
means by which I fund these upgrades. Unlike most of the other "list
servers" on the Web these days, I have a strict
*no-commercial-advertisement policy* on the Matronics Lists and associated
List web sites. I was again approached by a number of vendors recently
with advertising deals that have been very tempting. My commitment to
providing a grass-roots, non-commercial environment prevailed,
however! Commercialism on the Internet seems to be increasing
exponentially every year, with more and more SPAM and pop up ads, not to
mention the ever increasing Virus attacks.
My goal with the Matronics List Service is to provide all members
with a commercial-free, virus-free, and high-performance system
with which the may share information, ideas, and camaraderie.
The best news this year is that, with the gracious help of Andy Gold and
The Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), I have been able
to significantly expand the lineup of fantastic Gift offers to support the
List Fund Raiser! In all, there are eight awesome free gifts this year
ranging from List Archive CD's to Flight Computers with qualifying
Contribution levels. Those great Jeppesen Flight Bags that were so popular
last year are even back! A special thanks goes out to Andy Gold again this
year for his very kind and generous support of the Lists. Thanks Andy, for
these great incentives!!
Over the next month I'll be posting a few reminder messages about the List
Fund Raiser, and I ask for your patience and understanding during the
process. Remember that the Lists are *completely* funded through the
generous Contributions of its members. That's it! There's no support from
a bloated advertising budget or deep pockets somewhere. Its all made
possible through YOUR thoughtful and generous support!
To make your List Contribution using a Visa or MasterCard, PalPal, or with
a personal check, please go to the URL link below. Here you can find
additional details on this year's great free Gifts as well as information
on the various methods of payment. Contributions in the $20, $30, $50,
$75, and $100 range are common. The Contribution web page is kind of long
this year with the details of each of the gifts, so please scroll all the
way down!
SSL Secure Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
I would like to thank everyone who supports the Lists this year! Your
Contributions truly make it all possible!!
Thank you!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser - Wow, Have You Seen The Free Gifts? |
Dear Listers,
The List Fund Raiser is going well so far this year and I wanted to say
"Thank You" to everyone that has made a Contribution already this year!
Though the generous support of Andy Gold and the Builders Bookstore (
http://www.buildersbooks.com ), I'm able to offer some truly awesome gifts
with qualifying Contributions this year. There's quite a line up and a
rather diverse set of options - certainly something for every taste and
personality. Here's a list of this year's fine options:
* List Archive CD
* Aircraft Builder's Log
* Pilot Flashlight System
* Pro Pilot Logbook
* FAR/AIM on CD
* Jeppesen Flight Bag
* Aviation History Book
* Techstar Flight Computer
Please support your Email List Community AND pick up a really slick Gift at
the same time! The SSL Secure Contribution web site can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Once again, I would like to thank everyone that has so generously supported
the continued operation and upgrade of the Lists Services here on the
Matronics servers!!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Instruments for Sale |
beech-list(at)matronics.com, cessna-list(at)matronics.com,
homebuilt-list(at)matronics.com, kr-list(at)matronics.com,
piper-list(at)matronics.com, warbird-list(at)matronics.com
I have the following for sale:
RC Allen Electric Attitude Indicator, 14V, 8 degree tilt, 75hrs
RC Allen Electric Directional Gyro, 14V, 150 hrs
Both instruments are still in my RV-8A panel and flying. Have been flying
the instruments 1 year. Working perfectly. Each list for $1895. Make offer
direct to: lenleg(at)aol.com
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
Below are some of the nice things people have been saying about the Lists
in that little message box on the Contribution form! Thank you to everyone
that has made a Contribution thus far and for all the great
feedback! Please know that I really appreciate the comments and support!!
If you haven't yet shown your support for these Lists, won't you take a
moment and make your Contribution today? The Matronics Lists are always
Commercial-Free, SPAM-Free, Virus-Free, and High-performance and its your
direct support through this yearly Fund Raiser that enables all of these
valuable services you've come to expect.
Thank you for your Contribution!!
SSL Secure Web Site - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Matt Dralle
EMail List Administrator
================================================================
=================== What Listers Are Saying ====================
================================================================
You provide a service to us kit builders that cannot be measured.
-Clifford M.
...great service to the aviation community.
-Curt R.
Thanks for being there - your List has really been of help.
-Thomas R.
Your lists have been most helpful to my RV-9A project.
-Dean V.
...has been a great help to me.
-Jim N.
..."must-have" for RV builders and pilots.
-Douglas W.
I find something every day on the List that helps me in my project.
-Ron P.
...very valuable!
-Patrick L.
Don't know that I could have persevered and succeeded without the List.
-Curt R.
...service continues to be awesome and is one of the most helpful resources
for homebuilding that I have ever found.
-Jim H.
The information and hours of entertainment many of us derive from the Lists
is priceless.
-Chris R.
I learn a lot about my [aircraft] through the Lists...
- Lee P.
Great source of education and entertainment. Love it!!!
-Lar B.
Great List & very well organized.
-Peter D.
I couldn't build my [airplane] without this List.
-William G.
The List is an important part of my daily routine.
-Roger H.
...incredible resource.
-Ron P.
Excellent facility.
-David M.
...unmatched service to all builders and flyers.
-Ralph C.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? |
Dear Listers,
I was thinking that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund Raiser and
also take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here
provide a far better experience than the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with
running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the
annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I
have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the
members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to
sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From
the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great
majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List
systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage
members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer a great many
benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first
feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you *cannot*
receive a computer v*rus from any of my Lists directly. I've been on a few
other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected
files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their
posts. This just can't happen with my Lists; each incoming message is
filtered and attachments stripped off prior to posting. I provide a Photo
and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with
other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be
prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and
simple. Also, with this photo and file sharing technique, the Archives
don't get loaded up with a huge amounts of bitmap "data" that slows the
Archive Search times.
Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are
August 31, 2000 - November 14, 2003
EZ-Archive.digest.vol-ab