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JabiruEngine-Archive.digest.vol-ah
January 27, 2009 - August 16, 2009

I have a new Ground adjustable Sensenich prop on my Zodiac XL. I know about metal props, and wooden props but Composite ones??? Where can I get repair info and limits on these props? I dont live in the USA and there is nothing really like this on the Sensenich web site and I dont want to send it back to the USA for what may be a repairable stone chip, but then again, what is the limit when I will need to do this?? Chris Australia. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227030#227030 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Oil filter inspection
Date: Jan 27, 2009
Oil filter inspection.>> The link doesn`t work Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Oil filter inspection
Date: Jan 27, 2009
The link was split across two lines. The easiest way to fix this is to hit "reply" and edit the message to join the two lines back together. Then paste the whole line into your browser. But the better solution is "prevention" - don't post long links. Instead use the tinyurl web site to convert them to very short links. Here is one to the videos: http://tinyurl.com/csppbj -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pj.ladd Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 7:06 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Oil filter inspection Oil filter inspection.>> The link doesn`t work Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Flowers" <sonex229(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300
Date: Jan 27, 2009
Chris, Why don't you send this e-mail to Sensenich? You will get a straight answer from them, they are good people to work with. Placing this question here is going to get you a bunch of opinions, from people that do not make props! Send your question to the attention of Charlie at Sensenich, he can give you a proper answer.. Regards Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:27 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 > > > Hi all > I have a new Ground adjustable Sensenich prop on my Zodiac XL. I know > about metal props, and wooden props but Composite ones??? Where can I get > repair info and limits on these props? I dont live in the USA and there > is nothing really like this on the Sensenich web site and I dont want to > send it back to the USA for what may be a repairable stone chip, but then > again, what is the limit when I will need to do this?? > Chris > Australia. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227030#227030 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
Subject: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300
Date: Jan 27, 2009
Check out the EAA site http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html?videoId=8601416001 they have a video on about repairing nicks in composite props. Also contact the manufacturer and ask for assistance... They may help you. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris Sinfield Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:57 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 Hi all I have a new Ground adjustable Sensenich prop on my Zodiac XL. I know about metal props, and wooden props but Composite ones??? Where can I get repair info and limits on these props? I dont live in the USA and there is nothing really like this on the Sensenich web site and I dont want to send it back to the USA for what may be a repairable stone chip, but then again, what is the limit when I will need to do this?? Chris Australia. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227030#227030 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300
Date: Jan 27, 2009
>From Sensenich at http://www.sensenich.com/misc/LB2EK.pdf (this may not be applicable to your model of composite prop): "Minor Blade Repairs -- To be accomplished by an A&P or IA Minor impact damage, nicks, and gouges in composite material of blade not to exceed .025 depth and or .5 square inches of surface area: Fill with high strength epoxy resin West System 105/206 or equivalent (NOT 5 minute epoxy) thickened with aerospace filler material, such as Colloidal Silica 406, Cabosil, or equivalent. Sand smooth when dry. Wear and/or roughness of metal erosion shield on blade leading edge: If metal is not worn through, use 220 grit sandpaper or coarse scotch pad to remove roughness or minor pitting, being careful to not grind through the erosion shield. Polish with fine scotch pad or equivalent to remove scratches. Paint wear on blade: NOTE, wear is inevitable on the metal erosion shield. The wear rate depends on several factors, including high operating RPM's in rain or sandy areas, FOD on taxiways and runways, etc. Touch up paint using Tempo A150 Flat Black, A151 Gray (matches the hub color), A152 White, or equivalent. Sensenich Silver (does not match your hub color) is the original blade color and is available from the factory. When using touch up paint, keep in mind that paint can cause an out of balance situation so touch up should be kept to a minimum." -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris Sinfield Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 2:27 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 Hi all I have a new Ground adjustable Sensenich prop on my Zodiac XL. I know about metal props, and wooden props but Composite ones??? Where can I get repair info and limits on these props? I dont live in the USA and there is nothing really like this on the Sensenich web site and I dont want to send it back to the USA for what may be a repairable stone chip, but then again, what is the limit when I will need to do this?? Chris Australia. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227030#227030 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300
Date: Jan 27, 2009
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
Craig, Thanks for posting! Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 2:12 PM Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 >From Sensenich at http://www.sensenich.com/misc/LB2EK.pdf (this may not be applicable to your model of composite prop): "Minor Blade Repairs -- To be accomplished by an A&P or IA Minor impact damage, nicks, and gouges in composite material of blade not to exceed .025 depth and or .5 square inches of surface area: Fill with high strength epoxy resin West System 105/206 or equivalent (NOT 5 minute epoxy) thickened with aerospace filler material, such as Colloidal Silica 406, Cabosil, or equivalent. Sand smooth when dry. Wear and/or roughness of metal erosion shield on blade leading edge: If metal is not worn through, use 220 grit sandpaper or coarse scotch pad to remove roughness or minor pitting, being careful to not grind through the erosion shield. Polish with fine scotch pad or equivalent to remove scratches. Paint wear on blade: NOTE, wear is inevitable on the metal erosion shield. The wear rate depends on several factors, including high operating RPM's in rain or sandy areas, FOD on taxiways and runways, etc. Touch up paint using Tempo A150 Flat Black, A151 Gray (matches the hub color), A152 White, or equivalent. Sensenich Silver (does not match your hub color) is the original blade color and is available from the factory. When using touch up paint, keep in mind that paint can cause an out of balance situation so touch up should be kept to a minimum." -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris Sinfield Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 2:27 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 Hi all I have a new Ground adjustable Sensenich prop on my Zodiac XL. I know about metal props, and wooden props but Composite ones??? Where can I get repair info and limits on these props? I dont live in the USA and there is nothing really like this on the Sensenich web site and I dont want to send it back to the USA for what may be a repairable stone chip, but then again, what is the limit when I will need to do this?? Chris Australia. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227030#227030 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Haas" <checkpoint2(at)COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300
Date: Jan 27, 2009
I have a Sensenich Adjustable with over a 100 hrs, the person to contact is Charley Denny (charleyd(at)sensenchprop.com). He builds them! Bob Haas. -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris Sinfield Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:27 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 Hi all I have a new Ground adjustable Sensenich prop on my Zodiac XL. I know about metal props, and wooden props but Composite ones??? Where can I get repair info and limits on these props? I dont live in the USA and there is nothing really like this on the Sensenich web site and I dont want to send it back to the USA for what may be a repairable stone chip, but then again, what is the limit when I will need to do this?? Chris Australia. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227030#227030 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2009
From: Ronald Deutch <ronald_deutch(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 01/27/09
I couldn't get the sensenich link to open but found it here under the secti on for composite props:- http://www.sensenich.com/documents.htm --- On Wed, 1/28/09, JabiruEngine-List Digest Server wrote: From: JabiruEngine-List Digest Server <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 01/27/09 > Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 10:57 AM * ======================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== Today's complete JabiruEngine-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the JabiruEngine-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text edito r such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Ch apter 09-01-27&Archive=JabiruEngine Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Cha pter 09-01-27&Archive=JabiruEngine ======================== ======================= EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== ======================= ---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/27/09: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:28 AM - Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 (chris Sinfield) 2. 04:09 AM - Re: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 (Richard Girard ) 3. 04:32 AM - Oil filter inspection (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delam are?=) 4. 04:32 AM - Re: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delamare?=) 5. 06:09 AM - Re: Oil filter inspection (pj.ladd) 6. 06:45 AM - Re: Oil filter inspection (Craig Payne) 7. 06:56 AM - Re: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 (Wayne Flowers) 8. 09:26 AM - Re: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 (Noel Loveys) 9. 01:22 PM - Re: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 (Craig Payne) 10. 02:13 PM - Re: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 (Don Honabach) 11. 02:23 PM - Re: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 (Bob Haas) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> Hi all I have a new Ground adjustable Sensenich prop on my Zodiac XL. I know about metal props, and wooden props but Composite ones??? Where can I get repair info a nd limits on these props? I dont live in the USA and there is nothing really like this on the Sensenich web site and I dont want to send it back to the USA for what may be a repairable stone chip, but then again, what is the limit when I will need to do this?? Chris Australia. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227030#227030 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> Chris, For small chips you can use the classic superglue and baking soda or microballons as fill. It's messy, but it will work for small stone chips and has the advantage of being instant. All you do is put a drop of superglue i n the dent and pour in the baking soda or microballons as filler. If you cove r with wax paper pulled tightly around the blade, there's almost no need for sanding. If it doesn't quite fill, just do it again.For slightly larger dents use JB Weld. Takes 24 hours to cure, and again use wax paper drawn tightly around the blade to shape the fill and minimize sanding. For large dents where there is a fair amount of damage to the carbon fiber it's probably a toss up whether to send the blade back to the USA for a fix or just buy another blade. I've used both these fixes on foam core, carbon fiber blades for my Powerfin prop. One, a superglue fix, has almost a hundred hours on it and is still solid. Rick On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 3:27 AM, chris Sinfield wrote: > chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> > > Hi all > I have a new Ground adjustable Sensenich prop on my Zodiac XL. I know about > metal props, and wooden props but Composite ones??? Where can I get repai r > info and limits on these props? I dont live in the USA and there is nothing > really like this on the Sensenich web site and I dont want to send it back > to the USA for what may be a repairable stone chip, but then again, what is > the limit when I will need to do this?? > Chris > Australia. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227030#227030 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delamare?= <jeromedelamare(at)free.fr> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Oil filter inspection There is a new eea video online : Oil filter inspection. You can learn a lot of your engine with this simple procedure : http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1431564069/bclid1432781645/bc t id3735936001 Jrme ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delamare?= <jeromedelamare(at)free.fr> Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 Chris, You can look at this great eea video : http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1431564069/bclid1432781645/bc t id2111048001 Jrme -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris Sinfield Sent: mardi 27 janvier 2009 10:27 Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 Hi all I have a new Ground adjustable Sensenich prop on my Zodiac XL. I know about metal props, and wooden props but Composite ones??? Where can I get repair info and limits on these props? I dont live in the USA and there is nothin g really like this on the Sensenich web site and I dont want to send it back to the USA for what may be a repairable stone chip, but then again, what is the limit when I will need to do this?? Chris Australia. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227030#227030 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Oil filter inspection Oil filter inspection.>> The link doesn`t work Pat ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Oil filter inspection The link was split across two lines. The easiest way to fix this is to hit "reply" and edit the message to join the two lines back together. Then paste the whole line into your browser. But the better solution is "prevention" - don't post long links. Instead use the tinyurl web site to convert them to very short links. Here is one to the videos: http://tinyurl.com/csppbj -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pj.ladd Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 7:06 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Oil filter inspection Oil filter inspection.>> The link doesn`t work Pat ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ From: "Wayne Flowers" <sonex229(at)windstream.net> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 Chris, Why don't you send this e-mail to Sensenich? You will get a straight answer from them, they are good people to work with. Placing this question here is going to get you a bunch of opinions, from people that do not make props! Send your question to the attention of Charlie at Sensenich, he can give you a proper answer.. Regards Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:27 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 > > > Hi all > I have a new Ground adjustable Sensenich prop on my Zodiac XL. I know > about metal props, and wooden props but Composite ones??? Where can I get > repair info and limits on these props? I dont live in the USA and there > is nothing really like this on the Sensenich web site and I dont want to > send it back to the USA for what may be a repairable stone chip, but then > again, what is the limit when I will need to do this?? > Chris > Australia. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227030#227030 > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 Check out the EAA site http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html?videoId=8601416001 they have a video on about repairing nicks in composite props. Also contac t the manufacturer and ask for assistance... They may help you. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris Sinfield Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:57 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 Hi all I have a new Ground adjustable Sensenich prop on my Zodiac XL. I know about metal props, and wooden props but Composite ones??? Where can I get repair info and limits on these props? I dont live in the USA and there is nothin g really like this on the Sensenich web site and I dont want to send it back to the USA for what may be a repairable stone chip, but then again, what is the limit when I will need to do this?? Chris Australia. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227030#227030 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 >From Sensenich at http://www.sensenich.com/misc/LB2EK.pdf (this may not be applicable to your model of composite prop): "Minor Blade Repairs -- To be accomplished by an A&P or IA Minor impact damage, nicks, and gouges in composite material of blade not t o exceed .025 depth and or .5 square inches of surface area: Fill with high strength epoxy resin West System 105/206 or equivalent (NOT 5 minute epoxy) thickened with aerospace filler material, such as Colloidal Silica 406, Cabosil, or equivalent. Sand smooth when dry. Wear and/or roughness of metal erosion shield on blade leading edge: If metal is not worn through, use 220 grit sandpaper or coarse scotch pad to remove roughness or minor pitting, being careful to not grind through the erosion shield. Polish with fine scotch pad or equivalent to remove scratches. Paint wear on blade: NOTE, wear is inevitable on the metal erosion shield. The wear rate depends on several factors, including high operating RPM's in rain or sandy areas, FOD on taxiways and runways, etc. Touch up paint using Tempo A150 Flat Black, A151 Gray (matches the hub color), A152 White, or equivalent. Sensenich Silver (does not match your hub color) is the original blade colo r and is available from the factory. When using touch up paint, keep in mind that paint can cause an out of balance situation so touch up should be kept to a minimum." -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris Sinfield Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 2:27 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 Hi all I have a new Ground adjustable Sensenich prop on my Zodiac XL. I know about metal props, and wooden props but Composite ones??? Where can I get repair info and limits on these props? I dont live in the USA and there is nothin g really like this on the Sensenich web site and I dont want to send it back to the USA for what may be a repairable stone chip, but then again, what is the limit when I will need to do this?? Chris Australia. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227030#227030 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> Craig, Thanks for posting! Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 2:12 PM Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 >From Sensenich at http://www.sensenich.com/misc/LB2EK.pdf (this may not be applicable to your model of composite prop): "Minor Blade Repairs -- To be accomplished by an A&P or IA Minor impact damage, nicks, and gouges in composite material of blade not to exceed .025 depth and or .5 square inches of surface area: Fill with high strength epoxy resin West System 105/206 or equivalent (NOT 5 minute epoxy) thickened with aerospace filler material, such as Colloidal Silica 406, Cabosil, or equivalent. Sand smooth when dry. Wear and/or roughness of metal erosion shield on blade leading edge: If metal is not worn through, use 220 grit sandpaper or coarse scotch pad to remove roughness or minor pitting, being careful to not grind through the erosion shield. Polish with fine scotch pad or equivalent to remove scratches. Paint wear on blade: NOTE, wear is inevitable on the metal erosion shield. The wear rate depends on several factors, including high operating RPM's in rain or sandy areas, FOD on taxiways and runways, etc. Touch up paint using Tempo A150 Flat Black, A151 Gray (matches the hub color), A152 White, or equivalent. Sensenich Silver (does not match your hub color) is the original blade color and is available from the factory. When using touch up paint, keep in mind that paint can cause an out of balance situation so touch up should be kept to a minimum." -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris Sinfield Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 2:27 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 Hi all I have a new Ground adjustable Sensenich prop on my Zodiac XL. I know about metal props, and wooden props but Composite ones??? Where can I get repair info and limits on these props? I dont live in the USA and there is nothing really like this on the Sensenich web site and I dont want to send it back to the USA for what may be a repairable stone chip, but then again, what is the limit when I will need to do this?? Chris Australia. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227030#227030 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ From: "Bob Haas" <checkpoint2(at)COMCAST.NET> Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 I have a Sensenich Adjustable with over a 100 hrs, the person to contact is Charley Denny (charleyd(at)sensenchprop.com). He builds them! Bob Haas. -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris Sinfield Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:27 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Sensenich composite prop on Jab3300 Hi all I have a new Ground adjustable Sensenich prop on my Zodiac XL. I know about metal props, and wooden props but Composite ones??? Where can I get repair info and limits on these props? I dont live in the USA and there is nothin g really like this on the Sensenich web site and I dont want to send it back to the USA for what may be a repairable stone chip, but then again, what is the limit when I will need to do this?? Chris Australia. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227030#227030 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil filter inspection
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 30, 2009
When I check filters during annuals this is what I do. I cut the filter element out like everyone else. I then place it in a small jar that has about 1/3 full of gas. I shake it for a moment or two. All carbon, metal or whatever falls out to the bottom. I remove the element and check it. At this point it is usually clean. I then pour the gas in the jar out through a coffee filter. All contaminates are left behind for you to see. You can see everything that the filter stops. Carbon or metal flakes and can identify most things. If you only open the filter element when you cut it out of the can it is very easy not to see things as it gets disguised. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227684#227684 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil filter inspection
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 30, 2009
When I check filters during annuals this is what I do. I cut the filter element out like everyone else. I then place it in a small jar that has about 1/3 full of gas. I shake it for a moment or two. All carbon, metal or whatever falls out to the bottom. I remove the element and check it. At this point it is usually clean. I then pour the gas in the jar out through a coffee filter. All contaminates are left behind for you to see. You can see everything that the filter stops. Carbon or metal flakes and can identify most things. If you only open the filter element when you cut it out of the can it is very easy not to see things as it gets disguised. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227685#227685 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jab 3300 Regulator
From: "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jan 31, 2009
All Is there a mating plug for the regulator?? The terminals look like the standard fast-on connector would just slide right on the tabs, but a mating connector pigtailed out would make a cleaner installation and make regulator replacement easier if it ever fails Thanks Larry Whitlow 601XL Jab 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227930#227930 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Stanley Challgren <challgren(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Jab 3300 Regulator
Date: Jan 31, 2009
Larry: Yes. there is. I got one from Pete but I noticed in the 3300 Installation Video that they cut the plug off from the regulator and installed the wires separately. Stan 701/3300 On Jan 31, 2009, at 17:59 , lwhitlow wrote: > > > > All > > Is there a mating plug for the regulator?? The terminals look like > the standard fast-on connector would just slide right on the tabs, > but a mating connector pigtailed out would make a cleaner > installation and make regulator replacement easier if it ever fails > > Thanks > > Larry Whitlow > 601XL Jab 3300 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: EGT Probe Installation
From: "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jan 31, 2009
Ok I'm Stumped The manual says to install the EGT Probe 100mm from the flange Since the pipe is curved where am I making this measurement? Anyone got any insight or a pic to help a feller out?? Thanks Larry Whitlow 601XL Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227956#227956 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jab 3300 Regulator
From: "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 01, 2009
Simplicity at is best, I like that idea. Larry challgren(at)mac.com wrote: > Larry: > > Yes. there is. I got one from Pete but I noticed in the 3300 > Installation Video that they cut the plug off from the regulator and > installed the wires separately. > > Stan > 701/3300 > > > On Jan 31, 2009, at 17:59 , lwhitlow wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > All > > > > Is there a mating plug for the regulator?? The terminals look like > > the standard fast-on connector would just slide right on the tabs, > > but a mating connector pigtailed out would make a cleaner > > installation and make regulator replacement easier if it ever fails > > > > Thanks > > > > Larry Whitlow > > 601XL Jab 3300 > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227972#227972 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 01, 2009
Subject: Re: EGT Probe Installation
Good Morning Larry, Not a big deal. You can measure on the side, front, or back. The primary thing is to have the probe location consistent from cylinder to cylinder. Even then, there will be variances. If the carburetor, or other fuel control device, you are using allows leaning you could run a slow lean check and see just where each cylinder hits it's peak EGT, but with the Bing, I have found no way to make such a check. Without a lean check, just make note of where they seem to run, then try to notice changes in the balance between cylinders. Happy Skies Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 2/1/2009 12:04:25 A.M. Central Standard Time, ldwhitlow(at)comcast.net writes: --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "lwhitlow" Ok I'm Stumped The manual says to install the EGT Probe 100mm from the flange Since the pipe is curved where am I making this measurement? Anyone got any insight or a pic to help a feller out?? Thanks Larry Whitlow 601XL Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227956#227956 **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499. ntent/products/features.aspx/laptops_great_deals?c=us%26cs=19%26l=en%26s=d hs%26~ck=anavml) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: EGT Probe Installation
Date: Feb 01, 2009
Larry, The exhaust pipe has changed over the years, but on mine with three separate pipes all the way from the exhaust port to the muffler on each side (3300), there was enough straight pipe from the flange at the exhaust port to measure down 100 mm and drill a hole for the EGT probe. I don't have a picture handy, but I'll try to remember to take one today. Jeff Davidson The manual says to install the EGT Probe 100mm from the flange Since the pipe is curved where am I making this measurement? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: EGT Probe Installation
Date: Feb 01, 2009
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
I measured mine using a fabric tape and split the difference around the curves. While I'm not sure if the location really makes a big difference although I think way too close would be bad ?, just make sure you drill the hole for it in a place that allows the probe to stick straight in and not be forced to bend to a side. Apparently from other comments, if the EGT probe doesn't go straight into the exhaust pipe, the valves being read/sent will be wrong. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of lwhitlow Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 22:38 Subject: JabiruEngine-List: EGT Probe Installation Ok I'm Stumped The manual says to install the EGT Probe 100mm from the flange Since the pipe is curved where am I making this measurement? Anyone got any insight or a pic to help a feller out?? Thanks Larry Whitlow 601XL Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227956#227956 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Exhaust Ceramin Coating
From: "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 01, 2009
All Any opinions on have the exhaust system ceramic coated? I was thinking of doing the pipes (skipping the space for the EGT probes) and the muffler and Tailpipe(after attaching the Carb Heat Mulf and the Cabin heat muff) Opinions?? Dumb Idea?? Best idea since the wheel? Let me know what you think Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227999#227999 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: EGT Probe Installation
Date: Feb 01, 2009
The manual says to install the EGT Probe 100mm from the flange Since the pipe is curved where am I making this measurement? Anyone got any insight or a pic to help a feller out?? Stick the measuring tape up alongside the pipe all the way up to the flange then measure along the center of the side of the pipe around the curve to the 100mm point. Don't measure the outside radius of the bend or the inside... go halfway between the two and measure along that line. The measurement is not critical but getting all the sensors nearly the same is important. Does that help? Ed ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Jab 3300 Regulator
Date: Feb 01, 2009
Is there a mating plug for the regulator?? The terminals look like the standard fast-on connector would just slide right on the tabs, but a mating connector pigtailed out would make a cleaner installation and make regulator replacement easier if it ever fails We've been warned not to use plug fixtures and told to hard wire the connections and insulate them heavily... very heavily. The plug interface causes increased resistance which causes increased heat, which further increases resistance and so on. The end result is that the current attempts to arc to any nearby frame element... even through the plug housing. Make the best connections that you can to reduce the resistance at that point and insulate the crap out the junction. Ed ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1(at)msn.com>
Subject: Ceramic Coating
Date: Feb 01, 2009
I used the ceramic coating on my exhaust system, the muffler and tail pipes including where the EGT is located. I use a carb heat stove and cabin heat stove and everything works fine. The ceramic coating doesn't rust or discolor in any way and if oil is spilled on it, it goes away quickly. I have a four cylinder air cooled engine and burn 100LL. If you have any questions let me know. Dee Young N345DY KFM 112 ----- Original Message ----- From: lwhitlow<mailto:ldwhitlow(at)comcast.net> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 8:58 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Exhaust Ceramin Coating > All Any opinions on have the exhaust system ceramic coated? I was thinking of doing the pipes (skipping the space for the EGT probes) and the muffler and Tailpipe(after attaching the Carb Heat Mulf and the Cabin heat muff) Opinions?? Dumb Idea?? Best idea since the wheel? Let me know what you think Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227999#227999 .matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227999#227999> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List .com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EGT Probe Installation
From: "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)COMCAST.NET>
Date: Feb 01, 2009
Help it does Ed, The consensus seems to be make sure you do it the same way on all and try and measure along the same path on all pipes and look for 100mm I have to keep telling myself, " I'm not building a F-16 here a mm wont usually make a difference. But there are a few places that a mm means the difference in getting the nut on [Rolling Eyes] Larry dredmoody(at)cox.net wrote: > The manual says to install the EGT Probe 100mm from the flange > > Since the pipe is curved where am I making this measurement? > > Anyone got any insight or a pic to help a feller out?? > > Stick the measuring tape up alongside the pipe all the way up to the flange then measure along the center of the side of the pipe around the curve to the 100mm point. Don't measure the outside radius of the bend or the inside... go halfway between the two and measure along that line. The measurement is not critical but getting all the sensors nearly the same is important. Does that help? > > Ed > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228030#228030 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2009
From: "THOMAS SMALL" <tjs22t(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: EGT Probe Installation
> > The manual says to install the EGT Probe 100mm from the flange > > Since the pipe is curved where am I making this measurement? > > Anyone got any insight or a pic to help a feller out?? > Larry, How about taking a piece of single strand heavy wiring (maybe 10AWG) and cutting a pie 100mm long. Then place it on a side of the pipe midway between the inside and outside bend (does that make sense? Someone else said about the same thing.) Voila!!! exactly 100mm from wherever you measured. Worked here. Coat hanger wire would work too. CAVU jeff HDS/3300 Mechanicsburg, PA ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EGT Probe Installation
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Feb 02, 2009
The installation manual I have, dated 2006, says 100mm is the distance to use for the EGT probe palcement. The Jabiru engine tuning Service Bulletin JSB018-1, dated October, 2007, says to use 120mm. I don't have my Oshkosh notes with me, but I remember Pete K. saying in the Jabiru forum there that 120mm was the new recommended location. I used 120mm on my installation. Good luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL/Jabiru 3300 First flight 7/24/08 Phase I flight test complete 10/16/08 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228176#228176 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/engine_40_151.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] A new thread for Jabiru, tires?
Date: Feb 05, 2009
Jabiru pilots Since tires are paramount for aircraft safety even before getting off the ground, I thought I would bring up this issue (maybe for a light change.) My J-250 calls for main tires of 500 x 5. When I got the aircraft it came with 4 ply. I wonder if the 500 x 5 tires, 6 ply would be better. They obviously are rated for more static and breaking load. They are the same dimensions and weight as the original 4 ply and for the same price. It seems intuitive that the 6 ply would be better. I do not know if an aircraft can specifically be designed to only use the 4 ply and no more, even given the above data. Incidently the "5" is the rim size but what is the "500?" It certainly is too big a number for the wheel diameter or tread width? Any ideas? Ivan USA ----- Original Message ----- From: yayoo00007 To: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 2:35 PM Subject: [jabiruengines] pulstar plugs Anyone out there seen any feedback re use of PULSTAR plugs with aviation engines, Jabiru in particular? I couldn't come up with anything other than they go for $25. Wow! Ray __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar MARKETPLACE ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity a.. 8New Members b.. 1New Photos c.. 9New Files Visit Your Group Yahoo! News Get it all here Breaking news to entertainment news Drive Traffic Sponsored Search can help increase your site traffic. Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. . __,_._,___ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] A new thread for Jabiru, tires?
Date: Feb 05, 2009
That number probably refers to the width of the tire at the widest point, or the width of the rim between the flanges. Are you sure there isn't a decimal point after the 5......as in 5.00 x 5? Maybe the manufacturer of the airplane, Jabiru in this case, had a bit of "springing" in mind with the original 4-ply tires, and going to the 6-ply would transfer more shock to the landing gear...just a thought. Sometimes these decisions are made as a compromise, and when we experimentalists change things, we introduce other factors that upset the apple cart. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Feb 5, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Ivan wrote: > Jabiru pilots > Since tires are paramount for aircraft safety even before getting > off the ground, I thought I would bring up this issue (maybe for a > light change.) > My J-250 calls for main tires of 500 x 5. When I got the aircraft > it came with 4 ply. I wonder if the 500 x 5 tires, 6 ply would be > better. They obviously are rated for more static and breaking > load. They are the same dimensions and weight as the original 4 > ply and for the same price. > > It seems intuitive that the 6 ply would be better. I do not know > if an aircraft can specifically be designed to only use the 4 ply > and no more, even given the above data. Incidently the "5" is the > rim size but what is the "500?" It certainly is too big a number > for the wheel diameter or tread width? Any ideas? > > Ivan > USA > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] A new thread for Jabiru, tires?
Date: Feb 05, 2009
That is true, I would certainly like to hear from Pete regarding if they had some specific reason why to use 4 ply instead of 6 ply. Good thought about the springing of the tires, who knows. That is why I always default to the manufacturer since they have many intricate reasons for doing things which our "experimenting" mentality always tries to fix without maybe knowing all the details. The 500 has no decimal point and 500 x 5 is exactly as it is listed with a few aviation tire manufacturers. I just cant fit 500 into anything. Thanks Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 3:45 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: [jabiruengines] A new thread for Jabiru, tires? > > That number probably refers to the width of the tire at the widest point, > or the width of the rim between the flanges. Are you sure there isn't a > decimal point after the 5......as in 5.00 x 5? > Maybe the manufacturer of the airplane, Jabiru in this case, had a bit of > "springing" in mind with the original 4-ply tires, and going to the 6-ply > would transfer more shock to the landing gear...just a thought. Sometimes > these decisions are made as a compromise, and when we experimentalists > change things, we introduce other factors that upset the apple cart. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > > On Feb 5, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Ivan wrote: > >> Jabiru pilots >> Since tires are paramount for aircraft safety even before getting off >> the ground, I thought I would bring up this issue (maybe for a light >> change.) >> My J-250 calls for main tires of 500 x 5. When I got the aircraft it >> came with 4 ply. I wonder if the 500 x 5 tires, 6 ply would be better. >> They obviously are rated for more static and breaking load. They are >> the same dimensions and weight as the original 4 ply and for the same >> price. >> >> It seems intuitive that the 6 ply would be better. I do not know if an >> aircraft can specifically be designed to only use the 4 ply and no more, >> even given the above data. Incidently the "5" is the rim size but what >> is the "500?" It certainly is too big a number for the wheel diameter >> or tread width? Any ideas? >> >> Ivan >> USA >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] A new thread for Jabiru, tires?
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 07, 2009
The 6 ply over the 4 ply is fine. It won't make any difference other than you'll have 2 more plys in the tire. You won't be able to tell the difference in the planes handling or anything else. My nose wheel had a 2 ply from the factory and I went with the Desser LSA 6 ply tire (5.00-5). It says it is a tubeless tire, but after talking to Desser, I just put a tube in like everyone else. Never looked back. It just has a better load rating and a little less sidewall flex between the 4 and the 6. I run 27-29 psi in the front. I have 6.00-6 for mains. That tire I run the Desser "Monster Tread" tire like a lot of my friends. I also used the Monster tread on my last plane after a couple of flats. Best money I ever spent and it's not expensive. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229134#229134 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] A new thread for Jabiru, tires?
Date: Feb 07, 2009
Thanks Roger. I have about 900 landings on my nosewheel and about 700 on my mains (300 on the inner and 400 on the outer edges) I am a new pilot so I think these tubed Air Hawks are doing me fine. Of course these landings have been almost entirely on asphalt runways. I am still wondering if 5.00-5 and 500-5 on the mains is the same tire size? I just have replaced the tires with what size the old ones are labelled. Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 5:47 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: [jabiruengines] A new thread for Jabiru, tires? > > The 6 ply over the 4 ply is fine. It won't make any difference other than > you'll have 2 more plys in the tire. You won't be able to tell the > difference in the planes handling or anything else. My nose wheel had a 2 > ply from the factory and I went with the Desser LSA 6 ply tire (5.00-5). > It says it is a tubeless tire, but after talking to Desser, I just put a > tube in like everyone else. Never looked back. It just has a better load > rating and a little less sidewall flex between the 4 and the 6. I run > 27-29 psi in the front. I have 6.00-6 for mains. That tire I run the > Desser "Monster Tread" tire like a lot of my friends. I also used the > Monster tread on my last plane after a couple of flats. Best money I ever > spent and it's not expensive. > > -------- > Roger Lee > Tucson, Az. > Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated > Rotax Service Center > 520-574-1080 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229134#229134 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] A new thread for Jabiru, tires?
From: "wypaul" <loadout(at)bresnan.net>
Date: Feb 10, 2009
Ivan, 500-5 and 5.00-5 should be the same tire. The 500 or 5.00 is 5 inches thru the widest part of the sidewall, where the sidewall bulges. You will hear the tire refered to as a five hundred by five either way it is written. Paul -------- Paul Spackman Q-2 Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229538#229538 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] A new thread for Jabiru, tires?
Date: Feb 10, 2009
Thanks Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: "wypaul" <loadout(at)bresnan.net> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:12 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: [jabiruengines] A new thread for Jabiru, tires? > > Ivan, > > 500-5 and 5.00-5 should be the same tire. The 500 or 5.00 is 5 inches > thru the widest part of the sidewall, where the sidewall bulges. You will > hear the tire refered to as a five hundred by five either way it is > written. > > Paul > > -------- > Paul Spackman > Q-2 Jabiru 3300 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229538#229538 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Carburetor
Date: Feb 14, 2009
Paul Now that you have been using the economy tuning kit for awhile, what kind of EGT/RPM are you seeing upon climbout and in flight cruise. Also what is your field elevation which may affect these numbers? Thanks Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: "wypaul" <loadout(at)bresnan.net> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 7:23 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Carburetor > > I am happy with the Bing. 3300 first economy tuning works fine. I > thought that I would try it and change to something else if I did not like > it but 400 hrs later I'm still happy. > Paul > > -------- > Paul Spackman > Q-2 Jabiru 3300 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215314#215314 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Oil in exhaust & Exhaust Pipe Capscrews
From: "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 15, 2009
Ok So I got the EGT probes installed. I took off the cap screws holding the pipes on Drilled the hole for the EGT and re-installed the pipe. The question is should I use Loctite on the the cap screws when I put them back in? On another note when I took of the number one pipe, I noted a amount of engine oil in this pipe alone. Normal?? None of the others had any oil just the number one Thanks Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230431#230431 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 16, 2009
Subject: Re: Oil in exhaust & Exhaust Pipe Capscrews
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Larry, It's my experience that 262 Locktite (red, permanent) just gets undone by the heat in the exhaust pipe area, 242 (blue, service removable) seems a bit better. For what it's worth. Rick On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 7:17 PM, lwhitlow wrote: > > > > Ok So I got the EGT probes installed. > > I took off the cap screws holding the pipes on Drilled the hole for the > EGT and re-installed the pipe. The question is should I use Loctite on the > the cap screws when I put them back in? > > On another note when I took of the number one pipe, I noted a amount of > engine oil in this pipe alone. Normal?? None of the others had any oil just > the number one > > Thanks > > Larry > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230431#230431 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Coil Cooling Tubes
From: "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 17, 2009
In my 2200A installation manual it says to fabricate some cooling tubes for the ignition coils on the ram air ducts. As my plane hasn't flown yet, can anyone with running experience tell me whether I need to do this or not? It looks to me that the holes already in the ducts are aligned fairly well with the coils, so they will get a fair amount of cool air. Many thanks in advance. Ian Wilson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230622#230622 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
Date: Feb 17, 2009
Subject: Re: Coil Cooling Tubes
Ian, My experience based on two Jab 3300 installations is that the cooling tubes are worth the effort. My aircraft (a highly modified Esqual) has about 530 hours in just over 3 years. It has had no ignition coil issues - it has had the blast cooling tubes from day one. On the aircraft that our EAA chapter built (a 601XL) that has about 200 hours in just under 2 years; it had a coil failure about 10 hours ago. It now has the two blast cooling tubes. My guess is that the existing holes in the ducts are adequate for cooling the starter but not sufficient for long life of the coils. Blue Skies, Buz Rich Williamsburg, VA **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Coil Cooling Tubes
Date: Feb 17, 2009
From: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman(at)atk.com>
Now, here's a question for you, Ian... in adding the coil cooling tubes, do you think you have robbed the starter of its cooling blast of air? Don't you have to use the same holes for the coil coolers as the ones that supply the air for the starter? Just curious... I am running a Jab 3300 also. Rick Ian, My experience based on two Jab 3300 installations is that the cooling tubes are worth the effort. My aircraft (a highly modified Esqual) has about 530 hours in just over 3 years. It has had no ignition coil issues - it has had the blast cooling tubes from day one. On the aircraft that our EAA chapter built (a 601XL) that has about 200 hours in just under 2 years; it had a coil failure about 10 hours ago. It now has the two blast cooling tubes. My guess is that the existing holes in the ducts are adequate for cooling the starter but not sufficient for long life of the coils. Blue Skies, Buz Rich Williamsburg, VA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
Date: Feb 17, 2009
Subject: Re: Coil Cooling Tubes
In a message dated 2/17/2009 10:38:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Rick.Beckman(at)atk.com writes: Don't you have to use the same holes for the coil coolers as the ones that supply the air for the starter? Rick, I did not use the same holes. I fabricated "blast tubes" from small pvc pipe that blow directly on each coil. The left coil "blast tube" comes from the back end of the left duct, has a 90 degree elbow and then blows directly on the left coil. The right "blast tube" comes out of the right duct just aft of the back cylinder, has a 45 degree fitting and then an extension that takes it to the right coil. The end of this "blast tube" that is inside the duct is cut at 45 degrees to pick up blast air from the aft end of the duct. Hope this helps, Blue Skies, Buz Rich **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: Oil in exhaust & Exhaust Pipe Capscrews
Date: Feb 17, 2009
Larry, I would not use any locktite on these screws. They have a star lock washer on them. In fact, I use antiseize on mine. I check mine every oil change. If you ever need to remove them, chances are the bolt will have seized to the aluminum and will break off. You need to be very careful of screws in aluminum especially hot locations like the exhaust pipes to aluminum heads. Same antiseize compound as the spark plugs. My opinion. Chuck D. > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Oil in exhaust & Exhaust Pipe Capscrews > From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> > > Larry, It's my experience that 262 Locktite (red, permanent) just gets > undone by the heat in the exhaust pipe area, 242 (blue, service removable) > seems a bit better. For what it's worth. > Rick > > On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 7:17 PM, lwhitlow wrote: > >> > >> >> Ok So I got the EGT probes installed. >> >> I took off the cap screws holding the pipes on Drilled the hole for the >> EGT and re-installed the pipe. The question is should I use Loctite on >> the >> the cap screws when I put them back in? >> >> On another note when I took of the number one pipe, I noted a amount of >> engine oil in this pipe alone. Normal?? None of the others had any oil >> just >> the number one >> >> Thanks >> >> Larry >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230431#230431 >> >> > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 02/15/2009 6:09 PM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Coil Cooling Tubes
Date: Feb 17, 2009
Unless I'm missing something, why do you think you need to cool the starter? It only operates for 2-3 seconds and unless something is VERY wrong, it should not get hot during that short run. When I first got my engine back in 2005, Ben Krotje told me they "hardly ever" saw the need for the cooling tubes to the coils. BUT...this was in 2005...things may have changed. I went ahead and put the tubes in anyway, and had no coil issues for as long as I had coils. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:37 AM, Beckman, Rick wrote: > Now, here's a question for you, Ian in adding the coil > cooling tubes, do you think you have robbed the starter of its > cooling blast of air? Don't you have to use the same holes for the > coil coolers as the ones that supply the air for the starter? > > Just curious I am running a Jab 3300 also. > > Rick > > > Ian, > > My experience based on two Jab 3300 installations is that the > cooling tubes are worth the effort. My aircraft (a highly modified > Esqual) has about 530 hours in just over 3 years. It has had no > ignition coil issues - it has had the blast cooling tubes from day > one. On the aircraft that our EAA chapter built (a 601XL) that has > about 200 hours in just under 2 years; it had a coil failure about > 10 hours ago. It now has the two blast cooling tubes. My guess is > that the existing holes in the ducts are adequate for cooling the > starter but not sufficient for long life of the coils. > > Blue Skies, > > Buz Rich > > Williamsburg, VA > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhref="http:// > forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http:// > www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c_- > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Coil Cooling Tubes
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Feb 18, 2009
The cooling tube mod came out after there was a high coil failure rate. This was the different make of coils that are never used now. I ran an infrared temperature check on my coils after flight, only the left side behind cyl 4 was a little warm. seing that its directly behind the duct just drilled a bleed hole in the duct for it. Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230804#230804 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Coil Cooling Tubes
From: "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 18, 2009
Thanks Buz, Rick, Lynn and Ralph for your experience. That's the great thing about forums like this. I think that I'll have a check on the critters after I'm flying and monitor how cool, or not, they are and take it from there. Should be an easy mod to do retrospectively. I could spend the rest of my life modifying this and that but never end up flying the thing! Thanks again. Ian Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230805#230805 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve" <notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Coil Cooling Tubes
Date: Feb 18, 2009
Homebuilt aircraft are never "done". There will always be something to fix or improve. Thats the game we play... SW ----- Original Message ----- From: "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 2:45 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Coil Cooling Tubes > > > Thanks Buz, Rick, Lynn and Ralph for your experience. That's the great > thing about forums like this. I think that I'll have a check on the > critters after I'm flying and monitor how cool, or not, they are and take > it from there. Should be an easy mod to do retrospectively. > > I could spend the rest of my life modifying this and that but never end up > flying the thing! > > Thanks again. > > Ian > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230805#230805 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2009
From: Alvie Johnson <alvie102(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: cooling the ignition coils
Hi All-- While perusing the recent correspondence about cooling the ignition coils with blast tubes, another facet of cooling the coils came to mind. I recall reading some time ago somewhere about Jabiru recommending using fiberglass washers on the cooling coils to isolate them from engine block heat. Now I can't find anything about that on the factory website (or anywhere else, for that matter). I also have a question about where the washers would be installed. On the outside of the coil under the bolt head wouldn't seem to be nearly as effective as between the coil and the engine; yet that raises the question of offsetting the alignment of the coils with the magnets on the periphery of the flywheel. Thoughts, anyone? Alvie Sonex #102 Jab. 3300A Ser.No. 174 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 18, 2009
Subject: Re: cooling the ignition coils
In a message dated 2/18/2009 4:22:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, alvie102(at)yahoo.com writes: between the coil and the engine Alvie, Between the coil and the engine is how my engine came and what I have continued to use for the past 500 + hours. The alignment of the coil is not a problem, but of course the gap between the coil and the magnet is critical, especially for cold weather starting. Blue Skies, Buz Rich **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: cooling the ignition coils
Date: Feb 18, 2009
From: "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>
The fibre washers are indeed fitted between the coil and the engine. There maybe washers under the head as well, I can't recall? My 2200 doesn't have them where as my 3300 does, it's all about when the engine was built. It's a good point about the alignment and although I thought about it I haven't ever examined the difference. the washers are quite thick. Maybe the engines with the washers fitted have a little metal removed from the mount area so the alignment is still good. I haven't retrofitted washers to my 2200 engine even though I heard about it. On that I did lose a coil at 700 hours though the other of the pair has now done 1060 hrs, neither engine has blast tubes (yet). Maybe some one can have a look at an engine with washers? Be simple enough to gain some clearance. Regards, Clive ________________________________ From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alvie Johnson Sent: 18 February 2009 21:21 Subject: JabiruEngine-List: cooling the ignition coils Hi All-- While perusing the recent correspondence about cooling the ignition coils with blast tubes, another facet of cooling the coils came to mind. I recall reading some time ago somewhere about Jabiru recommending using fiberglass washers on the cooling coils to isolate them from engine block heat. Now I can't find anything about that on the factory website (or anywhere else, for that matter). I also have a question about where the washers would be installed. On the outside of the coil under the bolt head wouldn't seem to be nearly as effective as between the coil and the engine; yet that raises the question of offsetting the alignment of the coils with the magnets on the periphery of the flywheel. Thoughts, anyone? Alvie Sonex #102 Jab. 3300A Ser.No. 174 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: Coil Cooling Tubes
Date: Feb 18, 2009
Ian, Look at http://www.geocities.com/cffd66/Airplane/BlastTube.html to see how I used 1/2" CPVC. The one on the left coil is cut at a 45 degree towards the front to allow the air to expand forward and cool the coil that is slightly forward of the tube. I used JB Weld to cement the tubes in place. Chuck D. N701TX > > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Coil Cooling Tubes > From: "ianwilson2" <ianwilson2(at)hotmail.com> > > > In my 2200A installation manual it says to fabricate some cooling tubes > for the > ignition coils on the ram air ducts. As my plane hasn't flown yet, can > anyone > with running experience tell me whether I need to do this or not? It > looks > to me that the holes already in the ducts are aligned fairly well with the > coils, > so they will get a fair amount of cool air. > > Many thanks in advance. > > Ian Wilson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carburetor
From: "wypaul" <loadout(at)bresnan.net>
Date: Feb 22, 2009
Ivan, Not sure if I am the Paul you posted to but, I have been using the original economy tuning since it came out. To be honest I will have to take another look to give you a good answer but my field elevation is at 5300 and I do most of my flying at 8,000 14,000 feet. If I remember right climb-out is at 100kts, 1900 RPM and EGT's run 1275-1375 with the cruise numbers about the same but the speed running 150-160 kts and at full throttle 3150-3250 with the EGT's running 1025-1025. Paul -------- Paul Spackman Q-2 Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231494#231494 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carburetor
From: "wypaul" <loadout(at)bresnan.net>
Date: Feb 22, 2009
Should have been 1025-1125 not 1025-1025. Paul -------- Paul Spackman Q-2 Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231495#231495 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Carburetor
Date: Feb 22, 2009
Your climb-out is 100 kts at 1900 rpm? Is that right? Seems too low for rpm, especially at 5300 ft MSL...must be one fast/slippery airframe. I'd sooner think 2900 rpm, eh? Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Feb 22, 2009, at 11:05 AM, wypaul wrote: > > > Ivan, > > Not sure if I am the Paul you posted to but, I have been using the > original economy tuning since it came out. To be honest I will > have to take another look to give you a good answer but my field > elevation is at 5300 and I do most of my flying at 8,000 14,000 > feet. If I remember right climb-out is at 100kts, 1900 RPM and > EGT's run 1275-1375 with the cruise numbers about the same but the > speed running 150-160 kts and at full throttle 3150-3250 with the > EGT's running 1025-1025. > > Paul > > -------- > Paul Spackman > Q-2 Jabiru 3300 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231494#231494 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carburetor
From: "wypaul" <loadout(at)bresnan.net>
Date: Feb 22, 2009
You are right Lynn it should have been 2900 RPM. The Q-2 is slippery but not that slippery. [Embarassed] -------- Paul Spackman Q-2 Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231546#231546 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Carburetor
Date: Feb 22, 2009
No problem, Paul....I'm just glad that I don't have to re-prop my plane to try to get it to climb at this rpm. : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Feb 22, 2009, at 4:51 PM, wypaul wrote: > > > You are right Lynn it should have been 2900 RPM. The Q-2 is > slippery but not that slippery. [Embarassed] > > -------- > Paul Spackman > Q-2 Jabiru 3300 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231546#231546 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carburetor
From: "selwyn" <selwyn(at)ellisworks.com.au>
Date: Mar 12, 2009
Does anyone have the manifold pressure readings to go with climb and cruise numbers? -------- Cheers, Selwyn Kit 66 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234401#234401 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Haas" <checkpoint2(at)COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Carburetor
Date: Mar 14, 2009
Bravo! I would like to see the numbers with the prop and RPM Bob Haas N330BH -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of selwyn Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:00 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Carburetor Does anyone have the manifold pressure readings to go with climb and cruise numbers? -------- Cheers, Selwyn Kit 66 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234401#234401 Checked by AVG. 10:38 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 2009
From: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite.com>
Subject: Jabiru USA Engine Seminar..DO IT!
Dear Listers,FYI-Me and my Dad just spent a great weekend at Jabiru USA and participated in a their=C2- Jabiru engine seminar.=C2- Let me tell you t hat it was an outstanding experience and totally worth the trip to Shelbyvil le, Tennessee.=C2- The people of Jabiru,=C2- Nick, Mark, Dana and Pete a nd all the employees put on an excellent hands-on presentation, their operat ion is top notch and the hospitality was generous and kind:=C2- These peop le as individuals and a group are very enthusiastic, know the product inside and out and are very passionate about aviation.(These people live and breat h experimental amateur built aviation)And if your considering a Jabiru for y our airplane project I highly recommend this powerplant.=C2- Why?=C2- be cause we just purchased and picked up our second engine this past weekend; m y continued confidence in the Jabiru product was only bolstered and reinforc ed by attending the engine seminar.Moreover, by taking the class, reviewing all the parts and there functions and actually rebuilding an engine on site your knowledge and confidence level on this engine expands exponentially. =C2- In addition, we met some really interesting fellow aircraft builders and the=C2- exchange of ideas, thoughts and experience only adds to the va lue of the experience.=C2- In a nutshell, it's hard not to make some frien ds!=C2- Also, I was very impressed with the Jabiru Aircraft and the very s exy Arion Lightning (Maybe a future project lurking ?) : Furthermore the Jab iru USA facilities on the Shelbyville airport are excellent.HANDS UP! a grea t experience and totally worth the price of admission.Cheers and CAVU,Jeff a nd Peter Paris250 hours flying on a Zenith Zodiac CH601XL Jab 3300 and 1600 hours into building kit #A012 Europa Monowheel Classic that will be powerd b y a Jab3300 ------------------------------------------------------------ Photography School Learn digital and video photography techniques, lighting and printing. Click now. http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1g44JhXbPVVNH1suI6BYNIttycAoegMcNcJq2xzHNu ptLDDZSG06sw/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jabiru 3300 Wanted, please
From: "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 17, 2009
I'm looking for a used or new Jabiru 3300 or where else besides Barnstormers and Ebay to look. Thanks, Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239772#239772 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gilles St-Pierre <ranchlaseigneurie(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Jabiru 3300 Wanted, please
Date: Apr 17, 2009
By the way i m also looking for a new generation( used) 3300 Jabiru if yo u find 2 of hem let me know....!!! thanks gillles > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru 3300 Wanted=2C please > From: messydeer(at)yahoo.com > Date: Fri=2C 17 Apr 2009 15:38:05 -0700 > To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com > > > > I'm looking for a used or new Jabiru 3300 or where else besides Barnstorm ers and Ebay to look. > > Thanks=2C > Dan > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239772#239772 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Reinvent how you stay in touch with the new Windows Live Messenger. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650731 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2009
From: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite.com>
Subject: Help with Economy tuning kit issues
Dear Jab Engine Wonks,Recently I installed the economy tuning kit in our car b after attending Jabiru USA's engine seminar. Pretty easy and straightforwa rd, but I am =C2-having trouble starting the engine when the engine is col d, it just seems it isn't getting enough fuel.=C2-To get it going I have h ad to leave my boost pump on and I really have to manage the choke and throt tle or it won't start, while I'm juggling these tasks the engine will catch cough and quit, eventually it starts and runs fine. =C2-After the engine h as been run and as long as it's pretty warm it starts like it should. The on ly thing that is different in flight is the fact that I'm getting lower fuel reads in terms of fuel burn.=C2-My Jab used to start on about what seemed the 3rd turn of the prop and run quite well from there on, I'm getting the feeling that if it wasn't broken don't fix it, however, I needed to put in t he ethanol resistant floats and the economy kit presentation during the semi nar helped convince me that a smoother fuel curve over the wide range of thr ottle settings might help some CHT issues that I have had in climb and in cr uise. =C2-The soot from my exhaust pipes is a nice brown and not a velvety black soot.=C2-As of today I again have enrichened the mixture and =C2 -I re-adjusted the new ethanol resistant float =C2-to increase my fuel l evel in the carby. Still I was not able to start my engine and I soon ran th e battery to about 10 volts and that won't spin the engine fast enough to ge t ignition. =C2-I've gone over my cables inspected the whole engine and I don't know what to do to solve the problem, and I'm getting a wee bit tired of going over my engine compartment.=C2-Your advice and expertise are grea tly appreciated.Sincerely,Jeff Paris =C2-JAB 3300 with valves. (old school ) ------------------------------------------------------------ Lawyers Need legal advice? Click here to find a top notch lawyer. http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1g4tcKsM841pfcCni6AmIrhPzNB4zESlCaiUgo7r4K ize21hCOOXC4/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2009
Subject: Re: Help with Economy tuning kit issues
From: Dick Cleavinger <n213rc(at)gmail.com>
An engine preheater works wonders. Tannis has a good one for the 3300. n213rc(at)gmail.com Lightning #42 On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 1:11 PM, Jeffrey J Paris wrote: > Dear Jab Engine Wonks, > > Recently I installed the economy tuning kit in our carb after attending > Jabiru USA's engine seminar. Pretty easy and straightforward, but I am > having trouble starting the engine when the engine is cold, it just seems > it isn't getting enough fuel. > > To get it going I have had to leave my boost pump on and I really have to > manage the choke and throttle or it won't start, while I'm juggling these > tasks the engine will catch cough and quit, eventually it starts and runs > fine. After the engine has been run and as long as it's pretty warm it > starts like it should. The only thing that is different in flight is the > fact that I'm getting lower fuel reads in terms of fuel burn. > > My Jab used to start on about what seemed the 3rd turn of the prop and run > quite well from there on, I'm getting the feeling that if it wasn't broken > don't fix it, however, I needed to put in the ethanol resistant floats and > the economy kit presentation during the seminar helped convince me that a > smoother fuel curve over the wide range of throttle settings might help some > CHT issues that I have had in climb and in cruise. The soot from my exhaust > pipes is a nice brown and not a velvety black soot. > > As of today I again have enrichened the mixture and I re-adjusted the new > ethanol resistant float to increase my fuel level in the carby. Still I was > not able to start my engine and I soon ran the battery to about 10 volts and > that won't spin the engine fast enough to get ignition. I've gone over my > cables inspected the whole engine and I don't know what to do to solve the > problem, and I'm getting a wee bit tired of going over my engine > compartment. > > Your advice and expertise are greatly appreciated. > > Sincerely, > > Jeff Paris JAB 3300 with valves. (old school) > ------------------------------ > Lawyers<http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1g4tcKsM841pfcCni6AmIrhPzNB4zESlCaiUgo7r4Kize21hCOOXC4/> Need > legal advice? Click here to find a top notch lawyer.<http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1g4tcKsM841pfcCni6AmIrhPzNB4zESlCaiUgo7r4Kize21hCOOXC4/> Click > Here For More Information<http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1g4tcKsM841pfcCni6AmIrhPzNB4zESlCaiUgo7r4Kize21hCOOXC4/> > > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Help with Economy tuning kit issues
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Apr 19, 2009
Jeff, I have seen a similar issue on a different engine, but with the same Bing carb, that all of a sudden, became hard to start. It became difficult to start, but would run fine if it could be started. The owner eventually found a bit of debris in the start circuit fuel tube. When this was throughly cleaned out, no more start problems. Hope this helps, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL/Jabiru 3300 First flight 7/24/08 70 hours and climbing! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240203#240203 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2009
From: Keith Pickford <kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Help with Economy tuning kit issues
Have you checked your coil gaps? -It certainly sounds like a fuel problem but if the coil gaps are too wide it certainly causes starting problems - Regards Keith - Jab 160 --- On Mon, 20/4/09, Dick Cleavinger wrote: From: Dick Cleavinger <n213rc(at)gmail.com> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Help with Economy tuning kit issues Received: Monday, 20 April, 2009, 1:08 AM An engine preheater works wonders.- Tannis has a good one for the 3300. n213rc(at)gmail.com Lightning #42 On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 1:11 PM, Jeffrey J Paris wrote: Dear Jab Engine Wonks, Recently I installed the economy tuning kit in our carb after attending Jab iru USA's engine seminar. Pretty easy and straightforward, but I am -havi ng trouble starting the engine when the engine is cold, it just seems it is n't getting enough fuel.- To get it going I have had to leave my boost pump on and I really have to m anage the choke and throttle or it won't start, while I'm juggling these ta sks the engine will catch cough and quit, eventually it starts and runs fin e. -After the engine has been run and as long as it's pretty warm it star ts like it should. The only thing that is different in flight is the fact t hat I'm getting lower fuel reads in terms of fuel burn. -My Jab used to start on about what seemed the 3rd turn of the prop and r un quite well from there on, I'm getting the feeling that if it wasn't brok en don't fix it, however, I needed to put in the ethanol resistant floats a nd the economy kit presentation during the seminar helped convince me that a smoother fuel curve over the wide range of throttle settings might help s ome CHT issues that I have had in climb and in cruise. -The soot from my exhaust pipes is a nice brown and not a velvety black soot.- As of today I again have enrichened the mixture and -I re-adjusted the ne w ethanol resistant float -to increase my fuel level in the carby. Still I was not able to start my engine and I soon ran the battery to about 10 vo lts and that won't spin the engine fast enough to get ignition. -I've gon e over my cables inspected the whole engine and I don't know what to do to solve the problem, and I'm getting a wee bit tired of going over my engine compartment.- Your advice and expertise are greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Jeff Paris -JAB 3300 with valves. (old school) -- Lawyers Need legal advice? Click here to find a top notch lawyer. Click Here For More Information - ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Help with Economy tuning kit issues
Date: Apr 20, 2009
From: "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>
I was surprised at the sensitivity of the coil gaps, there were a factor in improving two aircraft at my hangar. Plug gaps can also be closed on one set to improve starting when cranking seems to be the issue. The symptoms you describe are just as we experience with one 3300 in the cold weather (UK). One thing we find helps is many hand props to suck fuel out the starting jet (fuel pump run first to top up bowl). Fact is the starting system is too lean as you rightly observe which makes everything else critical. Have fun, we did. Regards, Clive P.S. you have put the earth cable on the forward end of the starter motor mount bolt? Under the bolt head, also a worthwhile exercise. ________________________________ From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith Pickford Sent: 20 April 2009 03:23 Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Help with Economy tuning kit issues Have you checked your coil gaps? It certainly sounds like a fuel problem but if the coil gaps are too wide it certainly causes starting problems Regards Keith Jab 160 --- On Mon, 20/4/09, Dick Cleavinger wrote: From: Dick Cleavinger <n213rc(at)gmail.com> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Help with Economy tuning kit issues To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com Received: Monday, 20 April, 2009, 1:08 AM An engine preheater works wonders. Tannis has a good one for the 3300. n213rc(at)gmail.com Lightning #42 On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 1:11 PM, Jeffrey J Paris wrote: Dear Jab Engine Wonks, Recently I installed the economy tuning kit in our carb after attending Jabiru USA's engine seminar. Pretty easy and straightforward, but I am having trouble starting the engine when the engine is cold, it just seems it isn't getting enough fuel. To get it going I have had to leave my boost pump on and I really have to manage the choke and throttle or it won't start, while I'm juggling these tasks the engine will catch cough and quit, eventually it starts and runs fine. After the engine has been run and as long as it's pretty warm it starts like it should. The only thing that is different in flight is the fact that I'm getting lower fuel reads in terms of fuel burn. My Jab used to start on about what seemed the 3rd turn of the prop and run quite well from there on, I'm getting the feeling that if it wasn't broken don't fix it, however, I needed to put in the ethanol resistant floats and the economy kit presentation during the seminar helped convince me that a smoother fuel curve over the wide range of throttle settings might help some CHT issues that I have had in climb and in cruise. The soot from my exhaust pipes is a nice brown and not a velvety black soot. As of today I again have enrichened the mixture and I re-adjusted the new ethanol resistant float to increase my fuel level in the carby. Still I was not able to start my engine and I soon ran the battery to about 10 volts and that won't spin the engine fast enough to get ignition. I've gone over my cables inspected the whole engine and I don't know what to do to solve the problem, and I'm getting a wee bit tired of going over my engine compartment. Your advice and expertise are greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Jeff Paris JAB 3300 with valves. (old school) ________________________________ Lawyers <http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1g4tcKsM841pfcCni6AmIrhPzNB4zESlCaiUg o7r4Kize21hCOOXC4/> Need legal advice? Click here to find a top notch lawyer. <http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1g4tcKsM841pfcCni6AmIrhPzNB4zESlCaiUg o7r4Kize21hCOOXC4/> Click Here For More Information <http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1g4tcKsM841pfcCni6AmIrhPzNB4zESlCaiUg o7r4Kize21hCOOXC4/> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ist" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2009
From: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite.com>
Subject: Question about Jab 3300 Economy Tuning Kit
Dear List, Quick question: When and if you installed the Economy Tuning Kit into you J ab 3300 equipped Bing Altitude Compensating Carb did you as stated in Servic e Bulletins by Jabiru Australia drill out the Idle Circuit Inlet to 1.66MM p er Jabiru AU Service Letter JSL 002-1 dated Dec.2004 and Service Bulletin JS B 018-1 dated Oct.2007? In my attempt to sleuth my carb problems I seem to be getting nowhere. Thank you for your time and consideration. Jeff Paris ------------------------------------------------------------ Lawyers You have a right to seek justice! Click here to find experienced lawyers ac ross the USA. http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1g4tcKfxtVThrKiSyP9qfFAgTxLz1TMCf35bKWfGmU eBFcmJx6FAq8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Vossman" <bvossman(at)austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Question about Jab 3300 Economy Tuning Kit
Date: Apr 23, 2009
Jeff, I did. After fiddling with my Bing Carb with two tuning kits (needles) and various inlet designs to get my EGTs to even out, I could never get my idle to run smooth under 900 rpm (I have the Jab 2200 serial #852 with 180 hours). I finally drilled out the idle air inlet per the JSB and now after fiddling with idle jets and idle adjustments, I can't get a decent idle under 950 RPM. I don't recommend it. Bob, Sonex in Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question about Jab 3300 Economy Tuning Kit
From: "wypaul" <loadout(at)bresnan.net>
Date: Apr 23, 2009
I did the original tuning change 2004 and drilled out the jet. It works fine. Paul 3300 #278 -------- Paul Spackman Q-2 Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240909#240909 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Help with Economy tuning kit issues
From: "dhonabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
Date: Apr 23, 2009
A lot of folks have gone about their Bing Carb issues by changing out the needles, etc. What I've found is that the air intake system will make a huge swing on performance, EGTs and can fix things just as well. While I think this is a long shot, it only takes a few minutes to try and would eliminate it from the possible problem list: Block up your air intake port on the cowl and then remove the air-intake tubing from the carb so it draws air from inside the cowl and then finally try starting cold. If it works, then you have an air intake system issue. As they say, it is either fuel, air, or spark :) Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240933#240933 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ignition question
From: "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)COMCAST.NET>
Date: Apr 25, 2009
Jab 3300 Zenith 601XL I'm wiring the plane and checking continuity as I go And now I'm working on the Ignition. If I'm reading thing correctly Per the install Manual When the Tab on the Ignition module is grounded = IGNITION OFF When the Tab on the Ignition module is OPEN = IGNITION ON according to my handy dandy meter the Tab on the ignition module shows continuity to ground with no wire on the tab. Something isn't registering in my old noggin here Any Help???? Larry Whitlow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241262#241262 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Lenox" <waynelenox(at)juno.com>
Date: Apr 26, 2009
Subject: Re: Ignition question
Larry I think the ignition coil is grounded on one side and you are reading th rough the coil to ground. Wayne ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)COMCAST.NET> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Ignition question Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 16:44:03 -0700 et> Jab 3300 Zenith 601XL I'm wiring the plane and checking continuity as I go And now I'm workin g on the Ignition. If I'm reading thing correctly Per the install Manual When the Tab on the Ignition module is grounded = IGNITION OFF When the Tab on the Ignition module is OPEN = IGNITION ON according to my handy dandy meter the Tab on the ignition module shows c ontinuity to ground with no wire on the tab. Something isn't registering in my old noggin here Any Help???? Larry Whitlow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241262#241262 ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ____________________________________________________________ Click to find affordable options to attain your business degree. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTESUTqCZWu8Wv2a9lnmTDC FFcMn1DkFZ9mHvMs5Smzycg7yP2UhCg/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Bakker" <gregbakker(at)hotkey.net.au>
Subject: Re: Ignition question
Date: Apr 26, 2009
Larry, What you should be measuring here is resistance. About 0.8 to 1 ohm between the bare ground tab and the iron core which is the metal bit that sticks out at each end of the coil housing, see page 57 of the Jabiru manual solid lifter. (I'm not sure what page on the hydraulic version). If all you test is continuity, you will certainly get that as you discover that the tab is electrically connected to the winding and as such finds it's way back to ground. Cheers, Greg Bakker Jabiru Varieze, Australia www.varieze.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)COMCAST.NET> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 9:44 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Ignition question > > > Jab 3300 Zenith 601XL > > I'm wiring the plane and checking continuity as I go And now I'm working > on the Ignition. > > If I'm reading thing correctly Per the install Manual > > When the Tab on the Ignition module is grounded = IGNITION OFF > > When the Tab on the Ignition module is OPEN = IGNITION ON > > according to my handy dandy meter the Tab on the ignition module shows > continuity to ground with no wire on the tab. > > Something isn't registering in my old noggin here Any Help???? > > > Larry Whitlow > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241262#241262 > > > __________ NOD32 4035 (20090425) Information __________ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ignition question
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2009
Larry, I found the same thing during my wiring phase and asked Jabiru USA the very question you are asking now. They told me to not think about it as a simple continuity check, like Greg points out. They told me to hook up the grounding switch as shown in the instructions and test it operationally. They work as advertised, open circuit = run and closed to ground = stop running. Good luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL/Jabiru 3300 First flight 7/24/08 70 hours and climbing! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241442#241442 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ignition question
From: "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow(at)COMCAST.NET>
Date: Apr 27, 2009
Thanks Guys I knew the answer was there somewhere Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241585#241585 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2009
From: Rosalie <rosestar(at)sonic.net>
Subject: Carby leak
I noticed a leak from my carby last night after a 1-hour sunset flight. The gas dripped from the bottom of the float chamber. Today it was dry. I inspected all lines and connections with the fuel pump on. Nothing leaked except the float chamber. It is not a flowing leak. Just wet enough to cause a drip every two minutes. Kinda like condensation on the side of a cold beer can on a hot day. The drip stops after about 10 minutes. So, after the drip stopped I dried the side of the chamber and started the motor without the fuel pump on. Same result. A leak and drip on the side of the float chamber. Any ideas on how to stop the leak, or what is causing the problem? I would like to take it to Jabiru's distributor for a look, but I am hesitant to fly with a gas leak of any kind. Even a slow leak. Thanks for any help. Brad DeMeo Zodiac XL N601BD ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EGT Probe Installation
From: "Thruster87" <alania(at)optusnet.com.au>
Date: Apr 28, 2009
On my 2004 solid lifter engine I can only manage 50mm or 2" as it is the older style exhaust system which has the 180 deg bend Cheers Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241605#241605 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2009
From: Keith Pickford <kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Carby leak
Hi Brad - There is a cork gasket between the carb and the float bowl. Drop the float bowl and check the gasket doesn't have a twist in it. And check the float l evel at the same time. - Regards Keith J160 --- On Tue, 28/4/09, Rosalie wrote: From: Rosalie <rosestar(at)sonic.net> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Carby leak Received: Tuesday, 28 April, 2009, 6:45 PM I noticed a leak from my carby last night after a 1-hour sunset flight. Th e gas dripped from the bottom of the float chamber. Today it was dry. I inspected all lines and connections with the fuel pump on. Nothing leaked except the float chamber. It is not a flowing leak. Just wet enough to ca use a drip every two minutes. Kinda like condensation on the side of a cold beer can on a hot day. The drip stops after about 10 minutes. So, after the drip stopped I dried the side of the chamber and started the motor without the f uel pump on. Same result. A leak and drip on the side of the float chamber. Any ideas on how to stop the leak, or what is causing the problem? I would like to take it to Jabiru's distributor for a look, but I am hesitant to fly with a gas leak of any kind. Even a slow leak. Thanks for any help. Brad DeMeo Zodiac XL N601BD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Carby leak
Date: Apr 28, 2009
And while you're dropping the float bowl, do it carefully so that you can see just what the fuel level is. After you have the bowl off, go one step further and remove the float and needle and see if there's any VERY small object on the needle or the seat that could be causing the drip, then reinstall. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 635.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Apr 28, 2009, at 5:50 AM, Keith Pickford wrote: > Hi Brad > > There is a cork gasket between the carb and the float bowl. Drop > the float bowl and check the gasket doesn't have a twist in it. And > check the float level at the same time. > > Regards > Keith > J160 > > --- On Tue, 28/4/09, Rosalie wrote: > From: Rosalie <rosestar(at)sonic.net> > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Carby leak > To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com > Received: Tuesday, 28 April, 2009, 6:45 PM > > I noticed a leak from my carby last night > after a 1-hour sunset flight. The gas dripped from the bottom of > the float chamber. Today it was dry. I inspected all lines and > connections with the fuel pump on. Nothing leaked except the float > chamber. It is not a flowing leak. Just wet enough to cause a drip > every two minutes. Kinda like condensation on the side of a cold > beer can on a hot day. The drip stops after about 10 minutes. So, > after the drip stopped I dried the side of the chamber and started > the motor without the fuel pump on. Same result. A leak and drip on > the side of the float chamber. Any ideas on how to stop the leak, > or what is causing the problem? I would like to take it to Jabiru's > distributor for a look, but I am hesitant to fly with a gas leak of > any kind. Even a slow leak. Thanks for any help. Brad DeMeo Zodiac > XL N601BD > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carby leak
Date: Apr 28, 2009
From: zeprep251(at)aol.com
It doesn't take much to cause a too high float level.Any foreign material that can get stuck between the needle and the seat will do it.But the fix is just as easy.Drop the float bowl,that allows the needle to hang clear of the seat,put a rag under the carb to catch the fuel,and switch the electric pump on and then off ,That should flush any foreign material out of the contact area between the needle and seat.You can do the same thing without removing the float bowl IF you have a fuel shut off valve.Shut it off,run the engine until it quits then turn on the fuel again. ???????? G Aman 2200A -----Original Message----- From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> Sent: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 9:24 am Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Carby leak ? And while you're dropping the float bowl, do it carefully so that you can see just what the fuel level is. After you have the bowl off, go one step further and remove the float and needle and see if there's any VERY small object on the needle or the seat that could be causing the drip, then reinstall.? ? Lynn Matteson? Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger? Jabiru 2200, #2062, 635.2 hrs? Sensenich 62x46? Electroair direct-fire ignition system? Status: flying? ? ? On Apr 28, 2009, at 5:50 AM, Keith Pickford wrote:? ? > Hi Brad? >? > There is a cork gasket between the carb and the float bowl. Drop > the float bowl and check the gasket doesn't have a twist in it. And > check the float level at the same time.? >? > Regards? > Keith? > J160? >? > --- On Tue, 28/4/09, Rosalie wrote:? > From: Rosalie <rosestar(at)sonic.net>? > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Carby leak? > To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com? > Received: Tuesday, 28 April, 2009, 6:45 PM? >? > www.matronics.com/contribution _-> ============================================================? ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Carby leak
Date: Apr 28, 2009
Good idea for flushing out the debris, but if the float bowl is left on, the debris will be left inside the bowl, and could cause further, or different problems. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 635.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Apr 28, 2009, at 10:07 AM, zeprep251(at)aol.com wrote: > It doesn't take much to cause a too high float level.Any foreign > material that can get stuck between the needle and the seat will do > it.But the fix is just as easy.Drop the float bowl,that allows the > needle to hang clear of the seat,put a rag under the carb to catch > the fuel,and switch the electric pump on and then off ,That should > flush any foreign material out of the contact area between the > needle and seat.You can do the same thing without removing the > float bowl IF you have a fuel shut off valve.Shut it off,run the > engine until it quits then turn on the fuel again. > G Aman 2200A > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> > To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 9:24 am > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Carby leak > > > > And while you're dropping the float bowl, do it carefully so that > you can see just what the fuel level is. After you have the bowl > off, go one step further and remove the float and needle and see if > there's any VERY small object on the needle or the seat that could > be causing the drip, then reinstall. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 635.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Status: flying > > > On Apr 28, 2009, at 5:50 AM, Keith Pickford wrote: > > > Hi Brad > > > > There is a cork gasket between the carb and the float bowl. Drop > > the float bowl and check the gasket doesn't have a twist in it. > And > check the float level at the same time. > > > > Regards > > Keith > > J160 > > > > --- On Tue, 28/4/09, Rosalie wrote: > > From: Rosalie <rosestar(at)sonic.net> > > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Carby leak > > To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com > > Received: Tuesday, 28 April, 2009, 6:45 PM > > > I noticed a leak from my carby last night > > after a 1-hour sunset flight. The gas dripped from the bottom of > > the float chamber. Today it was dry. I inspected all lines and > > connections with the fuel pump on. Nothing leaked except the float > > chamber. It is not a flowing leak. Just wet enough to cause a > drip > every two minutes. Kinda like condensation on the side of a > cold > beer can on a hot day. The drip stops after about 10 > minutes. So, > after the drip stopped I dried the side of the > chamber and started > the motor without the fuel pump on. Same > result. A leak and drip on > the side of the float chamber. Any > ideas on how to stop the leak, > or what is causing the problem? I > would like to take it to Jabiru's > distributor for a look, but I > am hesitant to fly with a gas leak of > any kind. Even a slow leak. > T hanks for any help. Brad DeMeo Zodiac > XL N601BD > > www.matronics.com/contribution _-> > =========================================================== > > > Can't afford a new spring wardrobe? Go shopping in your closet > instead! > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re.Carby leak
Date: Apr 28, 2009
From: Rosalie <rosestar(at)sonic.net> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Carby leak I had the same overflow problem as did a friend of mine. The fuel pressure is over whelming the float needle. Bing has several float needles with different springs at the end next to the carb float. Originally mine had an orange tipped needle with the weak spring. I changed to a black tipped float needle and the overflow was cured. My friend tried changing to the black tipped float needle but only had some success. There are two Bing floats a white one and a black one. The original is white, the black exerts more force and when he installed the black float, his bowl overflow stopped. You can get both items from Bing. My engine ser# is 988. 40mm Bing. Chuck D. N701TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2009
From: Rosalie <rosestar(at)sonic.net>
Subject: Carby Leak
Thanks for the help, everyone. I'll get to it tomorrow evening. Brad DeMeo N601BD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2009
From: Rosalie <rosestar(at)sonic.net>
Subject: Carby Leak
Alleluiah! Thanks for for the advice gang. I did as advised and the carby leak is gone! You folks are the best. Brad DeMeo N601BD ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Engine Service Bulletins and Advisory Notices
From: "Thruster87" <alania(at)optusnet.com.au>
Date: May 01, 2009
Have you done this mod????on the 3300 SERVICE LETTER: JSL 004-1 Issue: 1 Date: 29th January 2008 Engine Service Bulletins and Advisory Notices Gull-Wing Baffle These baffles are to be removed as a part of this modification. Removing the baffles has the effect of blowing cool air over the sides of the crankcase and sump while moving hot air produced by the exhaust out of the cowls more quickly. Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242259#242259 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com
Date: May 02, 2009
Subject: Re: Gull Wing Mods
In a message dated 5/2/2009 3:08:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com writes: Have you done this mod???? Greetings, I have a 3300 installed in a Europa. About two years ago I modified the "gull wings" to include a hole in them about one sq. in. or so in total area on each wing. The shape of the hole resembles a pentagram with the pointy side towards the crankcase. This allows air to spill down the inside of the heads and between the cylinder barrels. While the gull wing is not completely removed, this modification did help with lowering head temps in climb. I recall I tested with the gull wings removed completely and it did not help my set up. Last fall I added a "step" or reverse scoop to my lower cowl just before the exit hole. This step, or reverse scoop, serves to create an area of low pressure at the point where the cooling flow exits the lower cowl. The effect is similar to the "lips" often seen on lower cowls, but is more aerodynamic. The step was molded onto the lower cowl by carefully shaping foam, then glassing over it and painting. It extends about 4" below the lower cowl and belly of the aircraft and is approximately 10" wide, equal to the width of the exit hole. This helped significantly. Essentially, what I did was copy what Mooney, Cirrus, Columbia and other "modern" aircraft are doing in regard to their lower cowls to enhance exit cooling flow. It also hides the exhaust stacks and helps to hide the Europa's lower stainless firewall and nose gear leg gusset from the relative wind in climb and cruise attitudes. Both the lower fire wall and nose gear leg gusset were flat to the airflow in climb and somewhat exposed in cruise. Manometer testing showed that these two components were causing an area of high pressure at the exit hole prior to the installation of the step. The change in the gull wings and the addition of the step on the lower cowl reduced the ambient pressure inside the internal head cooling ducts, increasing flow, and lowering head temps by an average of 25F. Pictures available upon request. Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) Europa N245E - Flying **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Hetrick" <gdh(at)isp.com>
Subject: Re: Gull Wing Mods
Date: May 02, 2009
Hi John, Your idea(s) seem very sound to me, therefore I would appreciate the proffered photos. Many thanks, Dale Tri-Gear/3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:50 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Gull Wing Mods In a message dated 5/2/2009 3:08:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com writes: Have you done this mod???? Greetings, I have a 3300 installed in a Europa. About two years ago I modified the "gull wings" to include a hole in them about one sq. in. or so in total area on each wing. The shape of the hole resembles a pentagram with the pointy side towards the crankcase. This allows air to spill down the inside of the heads and between the cylinder barrels. While the gull wing is not completely removed, this modification did help with lowering head temps in climb. I recall I tested with the gull wings removed completely and it did not help my set up. Last fall I added a "step" or reverse scoop to my lower cowl just before the exit hole. This step, or reverse scoop, serves to create an area of low pressure at the point where the cooling flow exits the lower cowl. The effect is similar to the "lips" often seen on lower cowls, but is more aerodynamic. The step was molded onto the lower cowl by carefully shaping foam, then glassing over it and painting. It extends about 4" below the lower cowl and belly of the aircraft and is approximately 10" wide, equal to the width of the exit hole. This helped significantly. Essentially, what I did was copy what Mooney, Cirrus, Columbia and other "modern" aircraft are doing in regard to their lower cowls to enhance exit cooling flow. It also hides the exhaust stacks and helps to hide the Europa's lower stainless firewall and nose gear leg gusset from the relative wind in climb and cruise attitudes. Both the lower fire wall and nose gear leg gusset were flat to the airflow in climb and somewhat exposed in cruise. Manometer testing showed that these two components were causing an area of high pressure at the exit hole prior to the installation of the step. The change in the gull wings and the addition of the step on the lower cowl reduced the ambient pressure inside the internal head cooling ducts, increasing flow, and lowering head temps by an average of 25F. Pictures available upon request. Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) Europa N245E - Flying ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Gull Wing Mods
Date: May 03, 2009
From: oldbldplt(at)aol.com
Hey John, I'd love to see your pictures... sounds like a neat mod.? Please send to oldbldplt(at)aol.com Thanks,? Marvin -----Original Message----- From: TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 5:50 am Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Gull Wing Mods ? ? In a message dated 5/2/2009 3:08:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com writes: Have you done this mod???? ? Greetings, ? I have a 3300 installed in a Europa. About two years ago I modified the "gull wings" to include a hole in them about?one sq. in.?or so in total area on each wing. The shape of the hole?resembles a pentagram with the pointy side towards the crankcase.?This allows air to spill down the inside of the heads and between the cylinder barrels. While the gull wing is not completely removed, this modification?did help with lowering?head temps in climb. I recall I?tested with the gull wings removed completely and it did not help my set up. ? Last fall I added a "step"? or reverse scoop to my lower cowl just before the exit hole. This step, or reverse scoop, serves to create an area of low pressure at the point where the cooling flow exits the lower cowl. The effect is similar to the "lips" often seen on lower cowls, but is?more aerodynamic. The step was molded onto the lower cowl by carefully shaping foam, then glassing over it and painting. It extends about?4" below the?lower cowl and belly of the aircraft and is approximately 10" wide, equal to the width of the exit hole.?This helped significantly. Essentially, what I did was copy what Mooney, Cirrus, Columbia and other "modern" aircraft are doing in regard to their lower cowls to enhance exit cooling flow. It also hides the exhaust stacks and helps to hide the Europa's lower stainless firewall and nose gear leg gusset from the relative wind in climb and cruise attitudes. Both the lower fire wall and nose gear leg gusset were flat to the airflow in climb and somewhat exposed in cruise. Manometer testing showed that these two components were causing an area of high pressure at the exit hole prior to the installation of the step. The change in the gull wings and the addition of the step on the lower cowl reduced the ambient pressure inside the internal head cooling ducts, increasing flow, and lowering head temps by an average of 25F. Pictures available upon request. ? Regards, ? John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) Europa N245E - Flying Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2009
Subject: Ram Air ducts
From: Iberplanes IGL <iberplanes(at)gmail.com>
Hello guys, I=B4m looking for 2 ram air ducts for my jabiru 3300 engine. I believe Sone x builders can help. Please, let me know if you have those for sale. Many thanks, -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Loram" <johnl(at)loram.org>
Subject: Ram Air ducts
Date: May 04, 2009
Alberto: Be sure to get the style of ram air duct that you need. There are at least two different versions of the ram air ducts for the 3300 engine. When I recently decided to build my engine cowl using the Jabiru nose-bowls designed for the J-400 series aircraft I had to order a set of ram air ducts that were designed to work with this narrower nose-bowl. There may be other designs that accommodate the changes that were made in the 3300 heads. caveat emptor! regards, -john- www.loram.org p.s. I do have a set of ram air ducts that shipped with my engine back in 2002... _____ From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Iberplanes IGL Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 11:34 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Ram Air ducts Hello guys, I=B4m looking for 2 ram air ducts for my jabiru 3300 engine. I believe Sonex builders can help. Please, let me know if you have those for sale. Many thanks, -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Gull Wing Mods
From: "sonex293" <sonex293(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 04, 2009
Yes, please post the pictures. -- Michael Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242745#242745 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Date: May 05, 2009
Subject: Re: Ram Air ducts
_www.usjabiru.com_ (http://www.usjabiru.com) has them too. do not archiv e John Read CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300 Phone: 303-648-3261 Fax: 303-648-3262 Cell: 719-494-4567 In a message dated 5/4/2009 12:41:38 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, iberplanes(at)gmail.com writes: Hello guys, I=B4m looking for 2 ram air ducts for my jabiru 3300 engine. I believe So nex builders can help. Please, let me know if you have those for sale. Many thanks, -- Alberto Martin _www.iberplanes.es_ (http://www.iberplanes.es/) Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List) ======================== ============ ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ======================== ============ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 eas y steps! =http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=11 5&bcd =May5509AvgfooterNO115) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: JSL 007-1 dtd 14th April 2009 Use of Fuel Containing
Alcohol
From: "dholly" <oue191(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 07, 2009
JSL 007-1 is a very informative read found on the www.jabiru.net.au site under Service Bulletins. It includes the following info: > Important Note For Jabiru Aircraft: Only aircraft with the white coloured fuel tank sealant can use fuel containing alcohol. Earlier tanks used a different sealant which was caramel coloured this sealant is soluble in alcohol and must not be used with an alcohol blend fuel. Aircraft fuel tanks with the caramel-coloured sealant may be re-sealed with the white > sealant contact Jabiru Aircraft or our local representative for details. Q.) What exactly is the apparently alcohol impervious "white coloured fuel tank sealant" and is it available for purchase thru U.S. Jabiru dealers or other sources here in the States? thx -------- Airdale Avid+ project | Jab2200 | Aerocet 1100 Amphibs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243053#243053 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: JSL 007-1 dtd 14th April 2009 Use of Fuel Containing
Alcohol
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 08, 2009
Hi Lynn, Kreem Weiss is what Flight Design uses in all their tanks and have beens for years. People use up to 22% ethanol in them without any issues. It is pretty much impervious to any liquids we would come into contact with as a pilot. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243195#243195 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: JSL 007-1 dtd 14th April 2009 Use of Fuel Containing
Alcohol
Date: May 08, 2009
Kreem (what is the "Weiss" part of the name?) is what I coated my tanks with back in 2005, and it is still going strong....on 100LL. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 647.4 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On May 8, 2009, at 6:43 PM, Roger Lee wrote: > > > Hi Lynn, > > Kreem Weiss is what Flight Design uses in all their tanks and have > beens for years. People use up to 22% ethanol in them without any > issues. It is pretty much impervious to any liquids we would come > into contact with as a pilot. > > -------- > Roger Lee > Tucson, Az. > Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated > Rotax Service Center > 520-574-1080 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243195#243195 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: JSL 007-1 dtd 14th April 2009 Use of Fuel Containing
Alcohol
Date: May 09, 2009
My tanks are not Kreemed so I cannot make a direct observation but there have been many, many posts on this and other lists of Kreeme coming off the interior of the tanks and blocking the fuel line(s). All this because some brain dead politicians want to contaminate perfectly good fuel. Noel Thankfully still ethanol free fuel! -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee Sent: 08 May 2009 08:13 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: JSL 007-1 dtd 14th April 2009 Use of Fuel Containing Alcohol Hi Lynn, Kreem Weiss is what Flight Design uses in all their tanks and have beens for years. People use up to 22% ethanol in them without any issues. It is pretty much impervious to any liquids we would come into contact with as a pilot. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243195#243195 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: 2200 Starter
Date: May 16, 2009
My 2200 engine, #988, has a black starter case with black end plate and silver cap for end bearing. I think it is a Bosch starter. I was doing some ground tests and the engine started fine as usual. There was no sluggishness or hesitation to start. Then without any warning, the starter motor just spun without turning the engine. When I try it now, there is a "clink" noise for a split second and then the starter just spins. I suspect the starter bendix/gear is not engaging the flywheel gear. Can the starter be removed without taking any other components off (for example the alternator or flywheel)? If it is just the bendix/gear, can it be replaced? Are there any special alignment adjustments when reinstalling the starter? Thanks, Chuck D. N701TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: 2200 Starter
Date: May 16, 2009
I can't talk for the black starter, but the later silver one can be removed without disturbing any other component. As I recall, three socket-head cap screws hold it on. There is an adapter nose that will come off the starter when the starter is removed, and it can only be reinstalled one way, I have found. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 651.8 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On May 16, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Chuck Deiterich wrote: > My 2200 engine, #988, has a black starter case with black end plate > and silver cap for end bearing. I think it is a Bosch starter. > > I was doing some ground tests and the engine started fine as usual. > There was no sluggishness or hesitation to start. Then without any > warning, the starter motor just spun without turning the engine. > When I try it now, there is a clink noise for a split second and > then the starter just spins. I suspect the starter bendix/gear is > not engaging the flywheel gear. > > Can the starter be removed without taking any other components off > (for example the alternator or flywheel)? > > If it is just the bendix/gear, can it be replaced? > > Are there any special alignment adjustments when reinstalling the > starter? > > Thanks, > Chuck D. > N701TX > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2009
From: ANTHONY HIGGINS <anthonyhiggins596(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: High oil pressure
Just been for a short flight and had to return due to VDO oil pressure gaug e having gone off the clock. On ground and at low RPM, normal cruise pressu re shown.=0AHas any one out there had this problem either with the gauge or sender or with a sticky pressure relief valve. The engine is a 3300 130 hr s. I will be checking valve tomorrow.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________ _________=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>=0ATo: jabiruengine-list@ matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, 16 May, 2009 8:17:58 PM=0ASubject: Re: Jabi ynn Matteson =0A=0AI can't talk for the black starter, bu t the later silver one can be removed without disturbing any other componen t. As I recall, three socket-head cap screws hold it on. There is an adapte r nose that will come off the starter when the starter is removed, and it c an only be reinstalled one way, I have found.=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox I V Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 651.8 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46 Wood prop=0AElectroair direct-fire ignition system=0AStatus: flying=0A=0A =0A=0AOn May 16, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Chuck Deiterich wrote:=0A=0A> My 2200 en gine, #988, has a black starter case with black end plate and silver cap fo r end bearing.=C2- I think it is a Bosch starter.=0A> =0A> I was doing so me ground tests and the engine started fine as usual. There was no sluggish ness or hesitation to start.=C2- Then without any warning, the starter mo tor just spun without turning the engine. When I try it now, there is a =9Cclink=9D noise for a split second and then the starter just spi ns. I suspect the starter bendix/gear is not engaging the flywheel gear.=0A > =0A> Can the starter be removed without taking any other components off ( for example the alternator or flywheel)?=0A> =0A> If it is just the bendix/ gear, can it be replaced?=0A> =0A> Are there any special alignment adjustme nts when reinstalling the starter?=0A> =0A> Thanks,=0A> Chuck D.=0A> N701TX =0A> ======================= ======================= _-con - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ====================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: High oil pressure
Date: May 17, 2009
I had my VDO oil pressure sender go TU at around 300 hrs, It would go to either 79 or 80 psi on my Grand Rapids (apparently the max for the Grand Rapids) even at idle but would also, at idle, swing back and forth between normal and max. Cured with a new VDO sender from NAPA auto parts. Tony Graziano Zodiac 601XL/Jab 3300; N493TG; 490 hrs ----- Original Message ----- From: ANTHONY HIGGINS To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 11:08 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: High oil pressure Just been for a short flight and had to return due to VDO oil pressure gauge having gone off the clock. On ground and at low RPM, normal cruise pressure shown. Has any one out there had this problem either with the gauge or sender or with a sticky pressure relief valve. The engine is a 3300 130 hrs. I will be checking valve tomorrow. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, 16 May, 2009 8:17:58 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: 2200 Starter I can't talk for the black starter, but the later silver one can be removed without disturbing any other component. As I recall, three socket-head cap screws hold it on. There is an adapter nose that will come off the starter when the starter is removed, and it can only be reinstalled one way, I have found. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 651.8 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On May 16, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Chuck Deiterich wrote: > My 2200 engine, #988, has a black starter case with black end plate and silver cap for end bearing. I think it is a Bosch starter. > > I was doing some ground tests and the engine started fine as usual. There was no sluggishness or hesitation to start. Then without any warning, the starter motor just spun without turning the engine. When I try it now, there is a =9Cclink=9D noise for a split second and then the starter just spins. I suspect the starter bendix/gear is not engaging the flywheel gear. > > Can the starter be removed without taking any other components off (for example the alternator or flywheel)? > > If it is just the bendix/gear, can it be replaced? > > Are there any special alignment adjustments when reinstalling the starter? > > Thanks, > Chuck D. > N701TX > ====== - The JabiruEngine-List Email Forum -vigator?JabiruEngine-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigat= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -> http://forum - List Contribution Web Site -http://www.matronics.co================= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mervin Friesen" <mefriesen(at)mts.net>
Subject: RE: High oil pressure
Date: May 17, 2009
I replaced my VDO sender last fall, when during a flight, the oil pressure read to the max of 80 psi, setting off the EIS alarm. I checked the oil pressure with a manual gauge on the ground and the readings were fine. After installing the new one, pressures were very similar to the readings of the manual gauge. No issues since then. I wonder if the vibrations of the engine shortens the life of the pressure sender. Mervin Friesen Sonex with Jab 2200 _____ From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ANTHONY HIGGINS Sent: May 17, 2009 11:08 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: High oil pressure Just been for a short flight and had to return due to VDO oil pressure gauge having gone off the clock. On ground and at low RPM, normal cruise pressure shown. Has any one out there had this problem either with the gauge or sender or with a sticky pressure relief valve. The engine is a 3300 130 hrs. I will be checking valve tomorrow. _____ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2009
From: ANTHONY HIGGINS <anthonyhiggins596(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: RE: High oil pressure
Thanks for your response. =0A=0AI will check out tomorrow, pretty sure the sender is at fault.=0A=0ARegards Tony=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A_________________ _______________=0AFrom: Mervin Friesen <mefriesen(at)mts.net>=0ATo: jabiruengi ne-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, 17 May, 2009 6:27:38 PM=0ASubject: Ja biruEngine-List: RE: High oil pressure=0A=0A=0AI replaced my VDO sender las t fall, when during a flight, the oil pressure read-to the-max of 80 ps i, setting off the EIS alarm. I checked the oil pressure with a manual gaug e on the ground and the readings were fine. After installing the new one, p ressures were very similar-to the readings of the manual gauge. No issues since then. I wonder if the vibrations of the engine shortens the life of the pressure sender.=0A-=0AMervin Friesen=0ASonex with Jab 2200=0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________=0AFrom: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@ matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Beha lf Of ANTHONY HIGGINS=0ASent: May 17, 2009 11:08 AM=0ATo: jabiruengine-list @matronics.com=0ASubject: JabiruEngine-List: High oil pressure=0A=0A=0AJust been for a short flight and had to return due to VDO oil pressure gauge ha ving gone off the clock. On ground and at low RPM, normal cruise pressure s hown.=0AHas any one out there had this problem either with the gauge or sen der or with a sticky pressure relief valve. The engine is a 3300 130 hrs. I will be checking valve tomorrow.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________________ -======================== ================= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GREGSMI(at)aol.com
Date: May 17, 2009
Subject: Re: High oil pressure
I had this problem. In cruise, the oil pressure pegged, but at idle, it seemed to register correctly. I replace the sending unit and that fixed th e problem. Greg In a message dated 5/17/2009 11:25:18 A.M. Central Daylight Time, anthonyhiggins596(at)btinternet.com writes: Just been for a short flight and had to return due to VDO oil pressure gauge having gone off the clock. On ground and at low RPM, normal cruise pressure shown. Has any one out there had this problem either with the gauge or sender or with a sticky pressure relief valve. The engine is a 3300 130 hrs. I will be checking valve tomorrow. ____________________________________ From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> Sent: Saturday, 16 May, 2009 8:17:58 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: 2200 Starter --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <_lynnmatt(at)jps.net _ (mailto:lynnmatt(at)jps.net) > I can't talk for the black starter, but the later silver one can be removed without disturbing any other component. As I recall, three socket -head cap screws hold it on. There is an adapter nose that will come off the starter when the starter is removed, and it can only be reinstalled one way, I have found. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 651.8 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On May 16, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Chuck Deiterich wrote: > My 2200 engine, #988, has a black starter case with black end plate and silver cap for end bearing. I think it is a Bosch starter. > > I was doing some ground tests and the engine started fine as usual. There was no sluggishness or hesitation to start. Then without any warni ng, the starter motor just spun without turning the engine. When I try it now , there is a =9Cclink=9D noise for a split second and then the starter just spins. I suspect the starter bendix/gear is not engaging the flywheel gear. > > Can the starter be removed without taking any other components off (for example the alternator or flywheel)? > > If it is just the bendix/gear, can it be replaced? > > Are there any special alignment adjustments when reinstalling the starter? > > Thanks, > Chuck D. > N701TX > ====== - The JabiruEngine-List Email Forum -vigator?JabiruEngine-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navi gat= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -> _http://forum - List Contribution Web Site -http://www.matronics.co================ = _ (http://forums.matronics.com/) ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List) ======================== ============ ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ======================== ============ **************A strong credit score is 700 or above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! =http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=11 5& bcd=Maystrongfooter51709NO115) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: High oil pressure
Date: May 18, 2009
No problems with my VDO on a 2200 and a Model 4000 EIS from Grand Rapids Tech. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 654 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On May 17, 2009, at 12:08 PM, ANTHONY HIGGINS wrote: > Just been for a short flight and had to return due to VDO oil > pressure gauge having gone off the clock. On ground and at low RPM, > normal cruise pressure shown. > Has any one out there had this problem either with the gauge or > sender or with a sticky pressure relief valve. The engine is a 3300 > 130 hrs. I will be checking valve tomorrow. > > From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> > To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, 16 May, 2009 8:17:58 PM > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: 2200 Starter > > > > I can't talk for the black starter, but the later silver one can be > removed without disturbing any other component. As I recall, three > socket-head cap screws hold it on. There is an adapter nose that > will come off the starter when the starter is removed, and it can > only be reinstalled one way, I have found. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 651.8 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Status: flying > > > On May 16, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Chuck Deiterich wrote: > > > My 2200 engine, #988, has a black starter case with black end > plate and silver cap for end bearing. I think it is a Bosch starter. > > > > I was doing some ground tests and the engine started fine as > usual. There was no sluggishness or hesitation to start. Then > without any warning, the starter motor just spun without turning > the engine. When I try it now, there is a clink noise for a split > second and then the starter just spins. I suspect the starter > bendix/gear is not engaging the flywheel gear. > > > > Can the starter be removed without taking any other components > off (for example the alternator or flywheel)? > > > > If it is just the bendix/gear, can it be replaced? > > > > Are there any special alignment adjustments when reinstalling the > starter? > > > > Thanks, > > Chuck D. > > N701TX > > ====== - The JabiruEngine-List Email Forum -vigator? > JabiruEngine-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/ > Navigat= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -> http:// > forum - List Contribution Web Site -http:// > www.matronics.co================= > > > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: High oil pressure
Date: May 18, 2009
No problems with my VDO on a 2200 >> Hi, I have a 2200 on my Kolb and have had some trouble and replaced sensers couple of times. Now pressure builds OK but then slowly fades over 20 minutes flying. Everything seems to be working Ok, nothing loose. I have today drained the Aeroshell 100 and replaced with 15W-50. A long shot. Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 3rd. Annual Page, AZ. Fly-in Adventure
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2009
This is mainly a Flight Design CT group, but would like to invite a few others. Ok Guys here's the scoop. The date of Oct 8-11 could not happen because all the hotels were booked. Oct. is a busy month for tourist coming in bus loads to Page. Weekends are usually booked. We had to change the date to the next most voted date of Oct. 15-18, more or less the same dates as last year. So the Page, AZ. Fly-In date is October 15-18 We will fly the Grand Canyon, Lake Powell, Monument Valley and this year I'm adding Bryce/Zion Canyon. I managed to block off 30 rooms. We got a great rate of $49 same as last year. Several people waited until it was too late and all the rooms were booked and had to go over to the other hotel at a higher rate of $20-$30 more per night. Do not wait this year. Book it now and you can cancel up to 24 hours before Oct. 15th. Get it booked and reserved, then if you have to cancel you can, but if you wait again then you may not be staying with the rest of us and at your own peril for rates. We have a special rate at the same place we stayed last year. Tell them you are with the "CT Group" or Roger Lee to cross reference and the rate is $49 a night. We will arrive Thursday morning, Oct. 15th. and head home Oct. 18th. Sunday or Monday morning. Breakfast is free in the mornings. I talked to the people at the Ranch House Grill and they will cater our evening meals again. We will have evening meals together Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Make sure to ask for Elisa Brown Best Western Arizona Inn 716 Rim View Dr. Page, Az. 800-826-2718 928-645-2466 We will fly into the Page airport - KPGA. We are staying with the Classic FBO and with our group we should get a .30 cent discount on fuel. Classic is not the first FBO next to the runway, but the second one behind them. The Antelope Canyon tour is open if anyone wants. This is a land tour. I'm up for a lake tour and we can split it. We can rent 19" power boats ourselves and take them out and explore the lake and fingers. The cost of the boat is $325 a day (8am-5pm). They hold eight people and this is only $40 a person. I am working with someone to see if he will take us out on the lake Friday and Saturday for a lake tour on his houseboat. I'll let you know later. Any of the rented boat items they would like a 24 hour notice. These are only some ideas that I checked on. We don't have to do them and if only some want to do them that is ok. You guys are welcome to invite other planes that are not CT's and everyone is welcome. Find some more LSA's. I will develop GPS coordinates for all our routes and post them so you can enter them in your own GPS. I have a plan to better deal with all our planes for our flights so they are not crowded in the mornings or evenings. Don't miss this, we always have fun. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246327#246327 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: jabiru 2200 Turbo - Just finished and tested
From: "EdgePerformance" <post(at)edgeperformance.no>
Date: Jun 04, 2009
Hi, I wonder if anyone else has tried to turbo convert the jabiru 2200 engine before. I have a Kitfox IV with a early model engine witch only put out 50-60HP I guess. What I have done is ported the heads both intake and exhaust chambers, mounted a Aerocarb 35mm carburetor intended for the 3300 jabiru and mounted a turbo on my custom made turbo manifold. I run 6.5psi of boost and it makes so much more power now after the rebuild and convertion. These are the before and after performance on the kitfox. Climbrate BEFORE - 500ftm NOW 1600-1700ftm Cruise speed 2900RPM BEFORE - 82mph NOW 105mph Full throttle level flight BEFORE 90mph NOW 122mph I have just run the engine on different throttle settings for 6 hours now with no trouble with either CHT og EGT. All lambda readings are ok as well. The Aerocarb with the mixture controll makes it perfekt for the turbo convertion. Heres a link to a video of the first flight and a video of the early build with the bing carburetor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMtAc1T_oMA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWGJRRZZRLU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAnAx9x9Dng Please alert me if anyone has done this before ! Safe flying ! -------- Kitfox IV w\ Jabiru 2200 Turbo\Aerocarb Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246797#246797 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00686_177.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00627_124.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00674_121.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 2200 Jabiru
From: "EdgePerformance" <post(at)edgeperformance.no>
Date: Jun 04, 2009
I have just build a turbo 2200 engine: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=58847&highlight=turbo -------- Kitfox IV w\ Jabiru 2200 Turbo\Aerocarb Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246829#246829 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: jabiru 2200 Turbo - Just finished and tested
From: "dons701" <burdon1(at)COMCAST.NET>
Date: Jun 05, 2009
Looks like lotsa fun ! Good job ! The only thing I would be carefull of though is where you have returned the oil from the turbo to the engine. After going through the high speed bearings the oil can get quite frothy and in this state can have difficulty getting back to the engine when returned to the bottom of the oil pan against liquid oil head pressure. If this is the case, what sometimes happens is that foamy drained oil backs up into the bearing housing and floods it's way past the labyrinth seal on the turbine wheel. Typically oil is returned to a location above the oil level clear of the spinning crankshaft so as not to be "picked up" and add mass to the crank. Not easily done, especially on the Jab. 2200 !! Did you use an automotive turbo or is it a custom ordered type ?? What size prop did you install to take advantage of the newly found torque ?? Again, nice job and good luck ! Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246954#246954 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: jabiru 2200 Turbo - Just finished and tested
From: "EdgePerformance" <post(at)edgeperformance.no>
Date: Jun 05, 2009
Hi, Thanks, I use a old draw through non ball bearing turbo with graphite seals to prevent fuel mixture to enter into the glide-bearing. The oil drain is no problem. I have watched the return oil dripping into a clear bottle and its not foamy. I use a jabiru 85hp GT-Prop from a sonex Not sure of the length and pitch, but the 85hp engine it sat on didn't make more than 3000RPM level on full throttle I believe. I also have a ground adjustable sensenich prop. I only managed to get 2850rpm`s on full throttle level flight on the mildest pitch setting #1 before the convertion and now it does easely 3200rpm on ground on pitch setting #5. So I believe it makes some where between 100-115HP on 6.5psi of boost. -------- Kitfox IV w\ Jabiru 2200 Turbo\Aerocarb Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246995#246995 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: jabiru 2200 Turbo - Just finished and tested
Date: Jun 05, 2009
Do you think the Jabiru is capable of holding up under the increase in power? Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 668.9 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jun 5, 2009, at 5:00 PM, EdgePerformance wrote: > > > Hi, > > Thanks, I use a old draw through non ball bearing turbo with > graphite seals to prevent fuel mixture to enter into the glide- > bearing. > > The oil drain is no problem. I have watched the return oil dripping > into a clear bottle and its not foamy. > > I use a jabiru 85hp GT-Prop from a sonex Not sure of the length and > pitch, but the 85hp engine it sat on didn't make more than 3000RPM > level on full throttle I believe. > > I also have a ground adjustable sensenich prop. I only managed to > get 2850rpm`s on full throttle level flight on the mildest pitch > setting #1 before the convertion and now it does easely 3200rpm on > ground on pitch setting #5. So I believe it makes some where > between 100-115HP on 6.5psi of boost. > > -------- > Kitfox IV w\ Jabiru 2200 Turbo\Aerocarb > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246995#246995 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: jabiru 2200 Turbo - Just finished and tested
Date: Jun 05, 2009
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
I'm interested in seeing the real world longevity of the changes as well - 1/2 TBO, sounds like a fun thing to do; 1/16 TBO and then I'm probably not interested; no TBO difference - where do I sign up! The one things I haven't had a chance is to fine tune my 3300A setup. I know that there is some HP I'm losing because I don't have a perfect air intake and so on. It amazes me how a small change can make a noticeable change in HP even in a 'standard' setup. Any testing for altitude and how the HP holds up when above 10k? Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 3:22 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: jabiru 2200 Turbo - Just finished and tested Do you think the Jabiru is capable of holding up under the increase in power? Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 668.9 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jun 5, 2009, at 5:00 PM, EdgePerformance wrote: > > > Hi, > > Thanks, I use a old draw through non ball bearing turbo with > graphite seals to prevent fuel mixture to enter into the glide- > bearing. > > The oil drain is no problem. I have watched the return oil dripping > into a clear bottle and its not foamy. > > I use a jabiru 85hp GT-Prop from a sonex Not sure of the length and > pitch, but the 85hp engine it sat on didn't make more than 3000RPM > level on full throttle I believe. > > I also have a ground adjustable sensenich prop. I only managed to > get 2850rpm`s on full throttle level flight on the mildest pitch > setting #1 before the convertion and now it does easely 3200rpm on > ground on pitch setting #5. So I believe it makes some where > between 100-115HP on 6.5psi of boost. > > -------- > Kitfox IV w\ Jabiru 2200 Turbo\Aerocarb > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246995#246995 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: jabiru 2200 Turbo - Just finished and tested
From: "EdgePerformance" <post(at)edgeperformance.no>
Date: Jun 05, 2009
Haven't been over 10k ft yet, But even at 6 and 7 thousand feet it climbs just as good as on 1000ft. I have had only 6 hours on it now, but will fly as much as i can. -------- Kitfox IV w\ Jabiru 2200 Turbo\Aerocarb Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247017#247017 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: jabiru 2200 Turbo - Just finished and tested
Date: Jun 05, 2009
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
Gotcha! Nice to see someone experimenting :) Please keep us all in the loop - sounds awesome! Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of EdgePerformance Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 4:28 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: jabiru 2200 Turbo - Just finished and tested Haven't been over 10k ft yet, But even at 6 and 7 thousand feet it climbs just as good as on 1000ft. I have had only 6 hours on it now, but will fly as much as i can. -------- Kitfox IV w\ Jabiru 2200 Turbo\Aerocarb Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247017#247017 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: A-2200 oil leak
From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date: Jun 07, 2009
Hi ! I am new to this list and I have a Kolb Mark 3 Xtra with a A-2200 jabiru solid lifter engine on it with 20.6 hrs on it. Everything has been going great but for a little seepage coming from the ,what looks to be ,the cam cover in the front of the engine under the crank shaft.My Question is, can I remove the 4 allen head bolts,remove the cover and either make a gasket of put a sealent on it to stop the leak?If I take the bolts out ,are they holding anything in side the engine in that area? Thanks, chris ambrose Kolb M3X/Jab N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247230#247230 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2009
From: Keith Pickford <kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
-Hi Chris - Yes you can do that - It is the oil pump cover. We have also had a leak fro m the front cranshaft seal directly above the oil pump. - Regards - Keith --- On Mon, 8/6/09, ces308 wrote: From: ces308 <ces308(at)ldaco.com> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: A-2200 oil leak Received: Monday, 8 June, 2009, 12:57 PM Hi ! I am new to this list and I have a Kolb Mark 3 Xtra with a A-2200 jabiru so lid lifter engine on it with 20.6 hrs on it. Everything has been going grea t but for a little seepage coming from the ,what looks to be ,the cam cover in the front of the engine under the crank shaft.My Question is, can I rem ove the 4 allen head bolts,remove the cover and either make a gasket of put a sealent on it to stop the leak?If I take the bolts out ,are they holding anything in side the engine in that area? Thanks, chris ambrose Kolb M3X/Jab N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247230#247230 le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date: Jun 07, 2009
Thank you....It looks like there is an O ring that goes around the housing?? What did you guys use for a sealent?? chris ambrose Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247245#247245 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
Date: Jun 08, 2009
Chris, I just got to thinking about something else.....if your engine only has 20-some hours on it, it could be that the rings haven't seated yet, and pressure is getting by the rings and putting excess pressure inside the crankcase. I know you'd like to not have any leaks, but if you put some hours on the engine, maybe the rings will seat, and your seepage will go away all by itself. Also, keep a good eye out for the valve clearances...mine were getting too loose, too often. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 672.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jun 7, 2009, at 8:57 PM, ces308 wrote: > > Hi ! > I am new to this list and I have a Kolb Mark 3 Xtra with a A-2200 > jabiru solid lifter engine on it with 20.6 hrs on it. Everything > has been going great but for a little seepage coming from the ,what > looks to be ,the cam cover in the front of the engine under the > crank shaft.My Question is, can I remove the 4 allen head > bolts,remove the cover and either make a gasket of put a sealent on > it to stop the leak?If I take the bolts out ,are they holding > anything in side the engine in that area? > > Thanks, > chris ambrose > Kolb M3X/Jab > N327CS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247230#247230 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date: Jun 08, 2009
Thank you Lynn, I have thought about that also. I have done the valve adjustments per the manual along with the heads and the last check at 15hrs all were good.My next check is at 25hrs along with an oil change.It is very little,but there.The engine runs great...I have been very impressed with the power it has on my M3X.I will wait awhile before I do anything.What about oil?....I have used AeroShell 15-50 forever in my 172's O-320-e2d with terrific luck....what is your opinion on that...?? chris ambrose Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247352#247352 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date: Jun 08, 2009
...I forgot to tell you my engine is 22A-1228. chris ambrose Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247355#247355 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
Date: Jun 08, 2009
From: zeprep251(at)aol.com
Chris, ? I recall someone one on the list mentioned that they had an oil pump cover that had a hole in it.It was leaking through the cover not around it.I never heard any more about it but it sounded like it had a thin spot in the aluminum.Just a thought. ??????????????????? G Aman MK3C 2200 Jabiru 435 hrs -----Original Message----- From: ces308 <ces308(at)ldaco.com> Sent: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 5:43 pm Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: A-2200 oil leak ...I forgot to tell you my engine is 22A-1228. chris ambrose Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247355#247355 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
Date: Jun 09, 2009
Well, I got a vote for 15-50 from a former worker at Shell Oil Company. He said because it was multi-grade, it was thinner at low temps and therefore got into the bearings quicker. But my flight instructor/A&P/IA says he feels like he gets better overall lubrication with single grade Aeroshell W100. Also, I have recently read that a certain portion of the multigrade stuff is a chemical that makes it multigrade, and that chemical is non-lubricating, so some of the "quart of oil" is not oil, so I've gone back to the straight W100 (SAE 50), and now I use it year around. I heat my engine in the wintertime, so the oil is already somewhat thin when I start my engine, so in a sense, I'm doing what the multigrade does....sort of. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 672.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jun 8, 2009, at 5:38 PM, ces308 wrote: > > Thank you Lynn, > I have thought about that also. I have done the valve adjustments > per the manual along with the heads and the last check at 15hrs all > were good.My next check is at 25hrs along with an oil change.It is > very little,but there.The engine runs great...I have been very > impressed with the power it has on my M3X.I will wait awhile before > I do anything.What about oil?....I have used AeroShell 15-50 > forever in my 172's O-320-e2d with terrific luck....what is your > opinion on that...?? > > chris ambrose > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247352#247352 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
Date: Jun 09, 2009
Thanks, I was just going to look and see if you answered that. It helps me and others to keep track of the engine history and what Jabiru might have changed over the years. I'm not sure of when they did it, but my engine had teflon-coated rocker arm bushings, which failed, and that's why I mentioned checking the valve lash often. When mine started to go bad, the first indication was a slightly rough running engine, and loose valve adjustments. Setting them back to .010" made it run well again. When this happened again, rather soon, I started looking further and that's when I found brassy- looking particles in the rocker covers. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 672.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jun 8, 2009, at 5:43 PM, ces308 wrote: > > ...I forgot to tell you my engine is 22A-1228. > > chris ambrose > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247355#247355 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 3rd. Annual Page, AZ. Fly-in Adventure
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 09, 2009
I hope some of you are making reservations. This is a great flying adventure set up for LSA's. We have a great time every year. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247416#247416 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2009
From: Keith Pickford <kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
Hi Lynn - I replaced two rocker bushes at 900 hrs - now done 993 has been on Shell 15 - 50-since the running in oil was drained at 45 hours. We have cold winte rs and warm summers and have fitted an oil thermostat - Regards keith --- On Tue, 9/6/09, Lynn Matteson wrote: From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: A-2200 oil leak Received: Tuesday, 9 June, 2009, 10:31 PM Thanks, I was just going to look and see if you answered that. It helps me and others to keep track of the engine history and what Jabiru might have c hanged over the years. I'm not sure of when they did it, but my engine had teflon-coated rocker arm bushings, which failed, and that's why I mentioned checking the valve lash often. When mine started to go bad, the first indi cation was a slightly rough running engine, and loose valve adjustments. Se tting them back to .010" made it run well again. When this happened again, rather soon, I started looking further and that's when I found brassy-looki ng particles in the rocker covers. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 672.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jun 8, 2009, at 5:43 PM, ces308 wrote: > > ...I forgot to tell you my engine is 22A-1228. > > chris ambrose > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247355#247355 > > > > > > > > > > le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date: Jun 09, 2009
Thank guys,for the heads up on the engine.I will keep my eyes open for the problems.Anything else I should be looking for? chris ambrose m3x/jab 21.6hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247489#247489 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2009
From: Keith Pickford <kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
Hi Chris - Only other thought at this stage is don't hurry to change from the straight (running in) oil if the oil burn has not settled - we have one motor done 42 hours and haven't changed to the multi grade yet. - Regards Keith --- On Wed, 10/6/09, ces308 wrote: From: ces308 <ces308(at)ldaco.com> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: A-2200 oil leak Received: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 1:39 PM Thank guys,for the heads up on the engine.I will keep my eyes open for the problems.Anything else I should be looking for? chris ambrose m3x/jab- ---21.6hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247489#247489 le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 2009
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
Good Evening Keith, Just out of curiosity, why do you want to use a different oil for break in than you do for normal use? Following the recommendation of a local Boutique engine shop owner, I have broken in my last three engines using multigrade aviation oil. Seemed to work just fine. They all ran good, broke in fast and seem to be doing just fine. The rings were fully seated in way less than five hours. The first one I broke in that way was retired after running eighteen hundred hours without a cylinder being pulled or any major component needing service. I think the old mineral oil idea is just an ancient Old Wive's Tale! Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 6/9/2009 9:00:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz writes: Hi Chris Only other thought at this stage is don't hurry to change from the straight (running in) oil if the oil burn has not settled - we have one motor done 42 hours and haven't changed to the multi grade yet. Regards Keith **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! JunestepsfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2009
From: Keith Pickford <kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
Hi Bob - That's interesting - as you say - is it an old wives tail - I believe Jabir u and Lycoming still recomend straight oil initially. I believed the reason was that the friction reducing additives- would glaze the bores before t he rings were bedded in.- I'm certainly no expert on oils, but have had a good result with aviation multi grade with our variations of temperature h ere. And of course we could start another discussion on the best way to bre ak in a new engine ??? - Regards Keith --- On Wed, 10/6/09, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote: From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com <BobsV35B(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: A-2200 oil leak Received: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 2:29 PM Good Evening Keith, - Just out of curiosity, why do you want to use a different oil for break in than you do for normal use? - Following the recommendation of a local Boutique engine shop owner, I have broken in my last three engines using multigrade aviation oil. Seemed to wo rk just fine. They all ran good, broke in fast and seem to be doing just fi ne. The rings were fully seated in way less than five hours. The first one I broke in that way was retired after running eighteen hundred hours withou t a cylinder being pulled-or any major component needing service.- I th ink the old mineral oil idea is just an ancient Old Wive's Tale! - Happy Skies, - Old Bob - In a message dated 6/9/2009 9:00:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, kpickford@x tra.co.nz writes: Hi Chris - Only other thought at this stage is don't hurry to change from the straight (running in) oil if the oil burn has not settled - we have one motor done 42 hours and haven't changed to the multi grade yet. - Regards Keith A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above.ol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport. com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62>S ee yours in just 2 easy steps! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 2009
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
Agreed Keith, Most shops are still recommending a "break in" oil, but many top shops have switched over to recommending using multigrade. I was an early adopter and have been very happy. I did follow the recommendation to fly it hard right away. Seventy-five percent or higher with particular effort to keep cylinder pressures high.. I spent many hours as a young aviator slow timing engines. I now believe that was a major waste of time and I do not think the engines ever ran as good as do those that we break in hard and early. The slow time and heavy oils may have been needed fifty to sixty years ago when fits and finish were not as good as they are today. My last two certificated engines I even broke in using lean of peak mixtures. That is a bit trickier because you have to be sure the mixture distribution to every cylinder is extremely accurate and well balanced, but it does work if all the bases are covered. Unfortunately, I know of no way to do that with a Jabiru. I broke in a 3300 last year, but just used the mixture as it came from the factory. We did run it hard though and used multi grade oil. In an effort to get it ready for Sun and Fun, I flew the thing 24 hours in three days! Our son and his daughter flew off the rest of the time in a couple of days before taking it to the show. Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 6/9/2009 10:10:17 P.M. Central Daylight Time, kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz writes: Hi Bob That's interesting - as you say - is it an old wives tail - I believe Jabiru and Lycoming still recommend straight oil initially. I believed the reason was that the friction reducing additives would glaze the bores before the rings were bedded in. I'm certainly no expert on oils, but have had a good result with aviation multi grade with our variations of temperature here. And of course we could start another discussion on the best way to break in a new engine ??? Regards Keith --- On Wed, 10/6/09, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote: From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com <BobsV35B(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: A-2200 oil leak Received: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 2:29 PM Good Evening Keith, Just out of curiosity, why do you want to use a different oil for break in than you do for normal use? Following the recommendation of a local Boutique engine shop owner, I have broken in my last three engines using multigrade aviation oil. Seemed to work just fine. They all ran good, broke in fast and seem to be doing just fine. The rings were fully seated in way less than five hours. The first one I broke in that way was retired after running eighteen hundred hours without a cylinder being pulled or any major component needing service. I think the old mineral oil idea is just an ancient Old Wive's Tale! Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 6/9/2009 9:00:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz writes: Hi Chris Only other thought at this stage is don't hurry to change from the straight (running in) oil if the oil burn has not settled - we have one motor done 42 hours and haven't changed to the multi grade yet. Regards Keith ____________________________________ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above.ol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62>See yours in just 2 easy steps! ist" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! JunestepsfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2009
From: Keith Pickford <kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Was- A-2200 oil leak
Thanks for sharing that Bob - We have just replaced a 2200 engine at 500 hours that broke a thru-stud b etween numbers 3 & 4 cyl. We were running the carb as supplied but apparent ly it was too lean and when we replaced the stud the crankcase halves tight ened on the crank.We have put a new (latest spec) motor in and have done 30 hours of circuit work. Haven't pulled the other motor apart yet, but it wi ll have to be line bored and plan on fitting the later camshaft and followe rs - Regards keith --- On Wed, 10/6/09, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote: From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com <BobsV35B(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: A-2200 oil leak Received: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 3:29 PM Agreed Keith, - Most shops are still recommending a "break in" oil, but many top shops have switched over to recommending using multigrade. I was an early adopter and have been very happy. - I did follow the recommendation to fly it hard right away. Seventy-five per cent or higher with particular effort to keep cylinder pressures high..- - I spent many hours as a young aviator slow timing engines. I now believe th at was a major waste of time and I do not think the engines ever ran as goo d as do those that we break in hard and early. The slow time and heavy oils may have been needed fifty to sixty years ago when fits and finish were no t as good as they are today. - My last two certificated engines I even broke in using lean of peak mixture s. That is a bit trickier because you have to be sure the mixture distribut ion to every cylinder is extremely accurate and well balanced, but it does work if all the bases are covered. - Unfortunately, I know of no way to do that with a Jabiru.- I broke in a 3 300 last year, but just used the mixture as it came from the factory. We di d run it hard though and used multi grade oil.- In an effort to get it re ady for Sun and Fun, I flew the thing 24 hours in three days! Our son and h is daughter flew off the rest of the time in a couple of days before taking it to the show. - Happy Skies, - Old Bob - In a message dated 6/9/2009 10:10:17 P.M. Central Daylight Time, kpickford@ xtra.co.nz writes: ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kayberg(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 10, 2009
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
I changed to multigrade oil too soon on a 2200 and had to go back to straight oil for 50 hours to get more power and lower oil consumption. Maybe the factory knows best? Doug Koenigsberg In a message dated 6/9/2009 11:42:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, BobsV35B(at)aol.com writes: Agreed Keith, Most shops are still recommending a "break in" oil, but many top shops have switched over to recommending using multigrade. I was an early adopter and have been very happy. I did follow the recommendation to fly it hard right away. Seventy-five percent or higher with particular effort to keep cylinder pressures high.. I spent many hours as a young aviator slow timing engines. I now believe that was a major waste of time and I do not think the engines ever ran as good as do those that we break in hard and early. The slow time and heavy oils may have been needed fifty to sixty years ago when fits and finish were not as good as they are today. My last two certificated engines I even broke in using lean of peak mixtures. That is a bit trickier because you have to be sure the mixture distribution to every cylinder is extremely accurate and well balanced, but it does work if all the bases are covered. Unfortunately, I know of no way to do that with a Jabiru. I broke in a 3300 last year, but just used the mixture as it came from the factory. We did run it hard though and used multi grade oil. In an effort to get it ready for Sun and Fun, I flew the thing 24 hours in three days! Our son and his daughter flew off the rest of the time in a couple of days before taking it to the show. Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 6/9/2009 10:10:17 P.M. Central Daylight Time, kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz writes: Hi Bob That's interesting - as you say - is it an old wives tail - I believe Jabiru and Lycoming still recommend straight oil initially. I believed the reason was that the friction reducing additives would glaze the bores before the rings were bedded in. I'm certainly no expert on oils, but have had a good result with aviation multi grade with our variations of temperature here. And of course we could start another discussion on the best way to break in a new engine ??? Regards Keith --- On Wed, 10/6/09, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote: From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com <BobsV35B(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: A-2200 oil leak Received: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 2:29 PM Good Evening Keith, Just out of curiosity, why do you want to use a different oil for break in than you do for normal use? Following the recommendation of a local Boutique engine shop owner, I have broken in my last three engines using multigrade aviation oil. Seemed to work just fine. They all ran good, broke in fast and seem to be doing just fine. The rings were fully seated in way less than five hours. The first one I broke in that way was retired after running eighteen hundred hours without a cylinder being pulled or any major component needing service. I think the old mineral oil idea is just an ancient Old Wive's Tale! Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 6/9/2009 9:00:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz writes: Hi Chris Only other thought at this stage is don't hurry to change from the straight (running in) oil if the oil burn has not settled - we have one motor done 42 hours and haven't changed to the multi grade yet. Regards Keith ____________________________________ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above.ol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62>See yours in just 2 easy steps! ist" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List ==================================== ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ==================================== tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==================================== ____________________________________ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. _See yours in just 2 easy steps!_ www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Junestepsfo oterNO62) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
Date: Jun 10, 2009
I ran my (self) rebuilt engine for 50 hours on Aeroshell mineral oil as per the Jabiru manual (the oil, not the hours), but was curious as to why mineral oil, and a local aircraft engine rebuilder, as well as other local fliers. told me that the rings seat better with no additives. At least as far as I can tell, my engine is producing more power now than it did before. Of course, the old rings had more than double the end gap as the replacement rings, and this would probably account for a lot of that. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 672.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jun 10, 2009, at 6:32 AM, Kayberg(at)aol.com wrote: > I changed to multigrade oil too soon on a 2200 and had to go back > to straight oil for 50 hours to get more power and lower oil > consumption. > > Maybe the factory knows best? > > > Doug Koenigsberg > > > In a message dated 6/9/2009 11:42:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > BobsV35B(at)aol.com writes: > Agreed Keith, > > Most shops are still recommending a "break in" oil, but many top > shops have switched over to recommending using multigrade. I was an > early adopter and have been very happy. > > I did follow the recommendation to fly it hard right away. Seventy- > five percent or higher with particular effort to keep cylinder > pressures high.. > > I spent many hours as a young aviator slow timing engines. I now > believe that was a major waste of time and I do not think the > engines ever ran as good as do those that we break in hard and > early. The slow time and heavy oils may have been needed fifty to > sixty years ago when fits and finish were not as good as they are > today. > > My last two certificated engines I even broke in using lean of peak > mixtures. That is a bit trickier because you have to be sure the > mixture distribution to every cylinder is extremely accurate and > well balanced, but it does work if all the bases are covered. > > Unfortunately, I know of no way to do that with a Jabiru. I broke > in a 3300 last year, but just used the mixture as it came from the > factory. We did run it hard though and used multi grade oil. In an > effort to get it ready for Sun and Fun, I flew the thing 24 hours > in three days! Our son and his daughter flew off the rest of the > time in a couple of days before taking it to the show. > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > > In a message dated 6/9/2009 10:10:17 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz writes: > Hi Bob > > That's interesting - as you say - is it an old wives tail - I > believe Jabiru and Lycoming still recommend straight oil initially. > I believed the reason was that the friction reducing additives > would glaze the bores before the rings were bedded in. I'm > certainly no expert on oils, but have had a good result with > aviation multi grade with our variations of temperature here. And > of course we could start another discussion on the best way to > break in a new engine ??? > > Regards > Keith > > --- On Wed, 10/6/09, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote: > > From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com <BobsV35B(at)aol.com> > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: A-2200 oil leak > To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com > Received: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 2:29 PM > > Good Evening Keith, > > Just out of curiosity, why do you want to use a different oil for > break in than you do for normal use? > > Following the recommendation of a local Boutique engine shop owner, > I have broken in my last three engines using multigrade aviation > oil. Seemed to work just fine. They all ran good, broke in fast and > seem to be doing just fine. The rings were fully seated in way less > than five hours. The first one I broke in that way was retired > after running eighteen hundred hours without a cylinder being > pulled or any major component needing service. I think the old > mineral oil idea is just an ancient Old Wive's Tale! > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > > In a message dated 6/9/2009 9:00:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz writes: > Hi Chris > > Only other thought at this stage is don't hurry to change from the > straight (running in) oil if the oil burn has not settled - we have > one motor done 42 hours and haven't changed to the multi grade yet. > > Regards > Keith > > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above.ol?redir=http:// > www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62% > 26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62>See yours in just 2 easy steps! > ist" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator? > JabiruEngine-List =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com blank > rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ==================================== List href="http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > ==================================== ms.matronics.com/">http:// > forums.matronics.com ==================================== tp:// > www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ > contribution =================================== > > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! > ==================================== List href="http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > ==================================== ms.matronics.com/">http:// > forums.matronics.com ==================================== tp:// > www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ > contribution =================================== > > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 10, 2009
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
Good Morning Lynn, Just goes to show that anecdotal evidence doesn't mean a lot. I have had much better luck with the engines I broke in using the same oil I intended to operate them on, but I also now break in engines at a lot higher cylinder pressures than I did in earlier days. Times change and I am sure my ideas will change when other evidence presents itself. I think your ring gap is most likely the primary cause of any increase in power! Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 6/10/2009 7:18:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time, lynnmatt(at)jps.net writes: --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson I ran my (self) rebuilt engine for 50 hours on Aeroshell mineral oil as per the Jabiru manual (the oil, not the hours), but was curious as to why mineral oil, and a local aircraft engine rebuilder, as well as other local fliers. told me that the rings seat better with no additives. At least as far as I can tell, my engine is producing more power now than it did before. Of course, the old rings had more than double the end gap as the replacement rings, and this would probably account for a lot of that. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 672.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jun 10, 2009, at 6:32 AM, Kayberg(at)aol.com wrote: > I changed to multigrade oil too soon on a 2200 and had to go back > to straight oil for 50 hours to get more power and lower oil > consumption. > > Maybe the factory knows best? > > > Doug Koenigsberg > > > In a message dated 6/9/2009 11:42:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > BobsV35B(at)aol.com writes: > Agreed Keith, > > Most shops are still recommending a "break in" oil, but many top > shops have switched over to recommending using multigrade. I was an > early adopter and have been very happy. > > I did follow the recommendation to fly it hard right away. Seventy- > five percent or higher with particular effort to keep cylinder > pressures high.. > > I spent many hours as a young aviator slow timing engines. I now > believe that was a major waste of time and I do not think the > engines ever ran as good as do those that we break in hard and > early. The slow time and heavy oils may have been needed fifty to > sixty years ago when fits and finish were not as good as they are > today. > > My last two certificated engines I even broke in using lean of peak > mixtures. That is a bit trickier because you have to be sure the > mixture distribution to every cylinder is extremely accurate and > well balanced, but it does work if all the bases are covered. > > Unfortunately, I know of no way to do that with a Jabiru. I broke > in a 3300 last year, but just used the mixture as it came from the > factory. We did run it hard though and used multi grade oil. In an > effort to get it ready for Sun and Fun, I flew the thing 24 hours > in three days! Our son and his daughter flew off the rest of the > time in a couple of days before taking it to the show. > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > > In a message dated 6/9/2009 10:10:17 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz writes: > Hi Bob > > That's interesting - as you say - is it an old wives tail - I > believe Jabiru and Lycoming still recommend straight oil initially. > I believed the reason was that the friction reducing additives > would glaze the bores before the rings were bedded in. I'm > certainly no expert on oils, but have had a good result with > aviation multi grade with our variations of temperature here. And > of course we could start another discussion on the best way to > break in a new engine ??? > > Regards > Keith > > --- On Wed, 10/6/09, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote: > > From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com <BobsV35B(at)aol.com> > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: A-2200 oil leak > To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com > Received: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 2:29 PM > > Good Evening Keith, > > Just out of curiosity, why do you want to use a different oil for > break in than you do for normal use? > > Following the recommendation of a local Boutique engine shop owner, > I have broken in my last three engines using multigrade aviation > oil. Seemed to work just fine. They all ran good, broke in fast and > seem to be doing just fine. The rings were fully seated in way less > than five hours. The first one I broke in that way was retired > after running eighteen hundred hours without a cylinder being > pulled or any major component needing service. I think the old > mineral oil idea is just an ancient Old Wive's Tale! > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > > In a message dated 6/9/2009 9:00:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz writes: > Hi Chris > > Only other thought at this stage is don't hurry to change from the > straight (running in) oil if the oil burn has not settled - we have > one motor done 42 hours and haven't changed to the multi grade yet. > > Regards > Keith > > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above.ol?redir=http:// > www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62% > 26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62>See yours in just 2 easy steps! > ist" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator? > JabiruEngine-List =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com blank > rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ======================= ============= List href="http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > ======================= ============= ms.matronics.com/">http:// > forums.matronics.com ================ ==================== tp:// > www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ > contribution =================== ================ > > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! > ======================= ============= List href="http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > ======================= ============= ms.matronics.com/">http:// > forums.matronics.com ================ ==================== tp:// > www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ > contribution =================== ================ > > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > ======================= ======================== ============ ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell =99s full line of laptops. =http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566094%3B3786435 8%3Bv) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wiring for the jab 3300
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 10, 2009
I am trying to find explanations on the sensors for the 3300. Specifically the electrical characteristics? I am trying to wire them up to a microcontroller and some adcs. Rpm--- will the hall effect work on 5v dc? Oil pressure and temp--- are they just like the gas level resistor? Thanks, Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247590#247590 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Turk" <matronics(at)rtist.nl>
Subject: Re: Wiring for the jab 3300
Date: Jun 10, 2009
Many hall sensors can be operated on 5V. Here's an example of a gear-tooth hall sensor datasheet: http://www.hallsensors.de/CYGTS101DC.pdf As you can see, the sensor requires a pull-up resistor (probably open collector). Many microcontrollers (eg. Atmel AVR) can be configured to activate a suitable internal pull-up. The pressure and temp sensors are variable resistors. If you add a known pull-up to +5V then you should be able to get a level that an embedded ADC can process. Engine environments are truely harsh from an electrical design point of view. Make sure you design plenty input protection (big spikes, load dumps, overvoltage, reverse connections, short circuits) on your microcontroller, or be prepared to see flakey results and blown parts. If at all possible, avoid direct connections from the microcontroller to the outside world. Use buffers on input and output. And when you start programming, be defensive. Check all code paths and all variables for out-of-range values, and provide some sort of visual "Lost my mind" indication. A watchdog timer can be helpful too.. Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 9:05 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Wiring for the jab 3300 > > > I am trying to find explanations on the sensors for the 3300. Specifically > the electrical characteristics? > > I am trying to wire them up to a microcontroller and some adcs. > > Rpm--- will the hall effect work on 5v dc? > Oil pressure and temp--- are they just like the gas level resistor? > > Thanks, > Don ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Wiring for the jab 3300
Date: Jun 10, 2009
The RPM Hall effect sensor is not supplied with the engine. Most people with electronic gauges or EFIS tie into the AC alternator field windings and look for 6 pulses per revolution (3300). Oil temp is a NTC resistive device - negative temperature coefficient. As the temperature goes up the resistance goes down. The pressure sender is a VDO part where a mechanical slider moves over a resistive element (that is why they wear out). Look on the VDO site. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mosquito56 Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:05 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Wiring for the jab 3300 I am trying to find explanations on the sensors for the 3300. Specifically the electrical characteristics? I am trying to wire them up to a microcontroller and some adcs. Rpm--- will the hall effect work on 5v dc? Oil pressure and temp--- are they just like the gas level resistor? Thanks, Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247590#247590 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Turk" <matronics(at)rtist.nl>
Subject: Re: Wiring for the jab 3300
Date: Jun 10, 2009
And to add the caveat here, tying your microcontroller to the AC alternator is lethal to the chip without proper precaution. If you really want to do that, take a look at the signal with a scope to see what hostile signal comes from the alternator.. Set scope for 20V per division... Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 10:26 PM Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Wiring for the jab 3300 > > > The RPM Hall effect sensor is not supplied with the engine. Most people > with > electronic gauges or EFIS tie into the AC alternator field windings and > look > for 6 pulses per revolution (3300). > > Oil temp is a NTC resistive device - negative temperature coefficient. As > the temperature goes up the resistance goes down. The pressure sender is a > VDO part where a mechanical slider moves over a resistive element (that is > why they wear out). Look on the VDO site. > > -- Craig > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > mosquito56 > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:05 PM > To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Wiring for the jab 3300 > > > > I am trying to find explanations on the sensors for the 3300. Specifically > the electrical characteristics? > > I am trying to wire them up to a microcontroller and some adcs. > > Rpm--- will the hall effect work on 5v dc? > Oil pressure and temp--- are they just like the gas level resistor? > > Thanks, > Don > > -------- > Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx > Apologies if I seem antagonistic. > I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals > for > assistance in this thing we call life. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247590#247590 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date: Jun 10, 2009
What kind of temps are you guys running cht/egt ? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247627#247627 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wiring for the jab 3300
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 10, 2009
Hmm, hall efffect not supplied? What is that a $2 transistor. I saw a pic with the sensor installed on a Jab site. I ass-u-me-d that it was supplied. I assume there is a mount for it on the engine????? Thanx for all the pullup and protection advice. I will definetely be taking it all to heart. Glad to hear everything is just pots, the oil temp and pressure. What is a vdo? I hope to open my engine box next week and am beginning to plan for the microcontroller. Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247649#247649 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: Wiring for the jab 3300
Date: Jun 10, 2009
VDO is the German maker of senders and gauges. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mosquito56 Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 9:51 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring for the jab 3300 Hmm, hall efffect not supplied? What is that a $2 transistor. I saw a pic with the sensor installed on a Jab site. I ass-u-me-d that it was supplied. I assume there is a mount for it on the engine????? Thanx for all the pullup and protection advice. I will definetely be taking it all to heart. Glad to hear everything is just pots, the oil temp and pressure. What is a vdo? I hope to open my engine box next week and am beginning to plan for the microcontroller. Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247649#247649 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
Date: Jun 10, 2009
As you know CHT's largely depend on the fuselage, cowling and aircraft which all regulate airflow over the cylinders. EGT's depend on mixture. It looks like you have a challenger? Anyway at 8500ft, cruise power , 3300A engine, I get a range of 250-290 CHT and EGT's of 1340-1392. Thus I have no great spread from front to back and right to left. Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 5:31 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: A-2200 oil leak > > What kind of temps are you guys running cht/egt ? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247627#247627 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date: Jun 10, 2009
My 2200 today...a 70* day at 2500ft had an oil temp of 198-212 and a cht of 230 and egt of 1240-1290 at 2800 rpm. On another note what about the vent hole I have read about to be drilled in the rear valve covers ?? Is this necessary? the engine is on a Kolb Mark 3 Xtra. chris ambrose Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247655#247655 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wiring for the jab 3300
Date: Jun 11, 2009
From: "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>
It's an eddy current probe, there is a mount sticking out from the engine back plate, it counts two small tabs that are on the back of the fly wheel. I got it from RS Components Products In Stock ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RS Stock No. Qty Unit Price Goods Value Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 304-166 1 8.30 8.30 Magnetic,pick up,min,Analogue,O/P 10V Regards, Clive ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmm, hall efffect not supplied? What is that a $2 transistor. I saw a pic with the sensor installed on a Jab site. I ass-u-me-d that it was supplied. I assume there is a mount for it on the engine????? Thanx for all the pullup and protection advice. I will definetely be taking it all to heart. Glad to hear everything is just pots, the oil temp and pressure. What is a vdo? I hope to open my engine box next week and am beginning to plan for the microcontroller. Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247649#247649 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
Date: Jun 11, 2009
From: zeprep251(at)aol.com
Chris, ?? Cyls hd 290,? egt1400 ?? G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: ces308 <ces308(at)ldaco.com> Sent: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 8:31 pm Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: A-2200 oil leak What kind of temps are you guys running cht/egt ? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247627#247627 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
Date: Jun 11, 2009
Hi Bob- Yes, the ring gap being closed up, and perhaps the addition of the Electroair direct fire ignition system, but I'm betting on the ring gap. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 672.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jun 10, 2009, at 8:31 AM, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote: > Good Morning Lynn, > > Just goes to show that anecdotal evidence doesn't mean a lot. > > I have had much better luck with the engines I broke in using the > same oil I intended to operate them on, but I also now break in > engines at a lot higher cylinder pressures than I did in earlier days. > > Times change and I am sure my ideas will change when other evidence > presents itself. > > I think your ring gap is most likely the primary cause of any > increase in power! > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > > In a message dated 6/10/2009 7:18:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > lynnmatt(at)jps.net writes: > > > I ran my (self) rebuilt engine for 50 hours on Aeroshell mineral oil > as per the Jabiru manual (the oil, not the hours), but was curious as > to why mineral oil, and a local aircraft engine rebuilder, as well as > other local fliers. told me that the rings seat better with no > additives. At least as far as I can tell, my engine is producing more > power now than it did before. Of course, the old rings had more than > double the end gap as the replacement rings, and this would probably > account for a lot of that. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 672.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Status: flying > > > On Jun 10, 2009, at 6:32 AM, Kayberg(at)aol.com wrote: > > > I changed to multigrade oil too soon on a 2200 and had to go back > > to straight oil for 50 hours to get more power and lower oil > > consumption. > > > > Maybe the factory knows best? > > > > > > Doug Koenigsberg > > > > > > > > In a message dated 6/9/2009 11:42:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > BobsV35B(at)aol.com writes: > > Agreed Keith, > > > > Most shops are still recommending a "break in" oil, but many top > > shops have switched over to recommending using multigrade. I was an > > early adopter and have been very happy. > > > > I did follow the recommendation to fly it hard right away. Seventy- > > five percent or higher with particular effort to keep cylinder > > pressures high.. > > > > I spent many hours as a young aviator slow timing engines. I now > > believe that was a major waste of time and I do not think the > > engines ever ran as good as do those that we break in hard and > > early. The slow time and heavy oils may have been needed fifty to > > sixty years ago when fits and finish were not as good as they are > > today. > > > > My last two certificated engines I even broke in using lean of peak > > mixtures. That is a bit trickier because you have to be sure the > > mixture distribution to every cylinder is extremely accurate and > > well balanced, but it does work if all the bases are covered. > > > > Unfortunately, I know of no way to do that with a Jabiru. I broke > > in a 3300 last year, but just used the mixture as it came from the > > factory. We did run it hard though and used multi grade oil. In an > > effort to get it ready for Sun and Fun, I flew the thing 24 hours > > in three days! Our son and his daughter flew off the rest of the > > time in a couple of days before taking it to the show. > > > > Happy Skies, > > > > Old Bob > > > > In a message dated 6/9/2009 10:10:17 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > > kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz writes: > > Hi Bob > > > > That's interesting - as you say - is it an old wives tail - I > > believe Jabiru and Lycoming still recommend straight oil initially. > > I believed the reason was that the friction reducing additives > > would glaze the bores before the rings were bedded in. I'm > > certainly no expert on oils, but have had a good result with > > aviation multi grade with our variations of temperature here. And > > of course we could start another discussion on the best way to > > break in a new engine ??? > > > > Regards > > Keith > > > > --- On Wed, 10/6/09, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com <BobsV35B(at)aol.com> > > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: A-2200 oil leak > > To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com > > Received: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 2:29 PM > > > > Good Evening Keith, > > > > Just out of curiosity, why do you want to use a different oil for > > break in than you do for normal use? > > > > Following the recommendation of a local Boutique engine shop owner, > > I have broken in my last three engines using multigrade aviation > > oil. Seemed to work just fine. They all ran good, broke in fast and > > seem to be doing just fine. The rings were fully seated in way less > > than five hours. The first one I broke in that way was retired > > after running eighteen hundred hours without a cylinder being > > pulled or any major component needing service. I think the old > > mineral oil idea is just an ancient Old Wive's Tale! > > > > Happy Skies, > > > > Old Bob > > > > In a message dated 6/9/2009 9:00:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > > kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz writes: > > Hi Chris > > > > Only other thought at this stage is don't hurry to change from the > > straight (running in) oil if the oil burn has not settled - we have > > one motor done 42 hours and haven't changed to the multi grade yet. > > > > Regards > > Keith > > > > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above.ol?redir=http:// > > www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62% > > 26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62>See yours in just 2 easy steps! > > ist" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator? > > JabiruEngine-List =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com blank > > rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ==================================== List href="http:// > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http:// > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > > ==================================== ms.matronics.com/">http:// > > forums.matronics.com ==================================== tp:// > > www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ > > contribution =================================== > > > > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! > > ==================================== List href="http:// > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http:// > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > > ==================================== ms.matronics.com/">http:// > > forums.matronics.com ==================================== tp:// > > www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ > > contribution =================================== > > > > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > > > ====================================================================== > =========================== Use utilities Day > ================================================ - > MATRONICS WEB FORUMS > ================================================ - List > Contribution Web Site sp; > ================================================== > > > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: A-2200 oil leak
Date: Jun 11, 2009
My CHT's are comparably high, because I've attached my probes directly to the head instead of being up in the airstream. Take a look at where the reading area of your spark plug probes is, and you'll find that you are not reading CHT, but rather the air temperature NEAR the head. In my humble opinion, Jabiru should have done this on all their engines, and we wouldn't have the problem of putzing around with the spark plug washers every time we change plugs, and get a more accurate reading of the actual temp of the head. My heads run around 340 degrees F. EGT's vary from mid-1200's to 1420 for the highest. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 672.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jun 10, 2009, at 8:31 PM, ces308 wrote: > > What kind of temps are you guys running cht/egt ? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247627#247627 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wiring for the jab 3300
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 11, 2009
Thanx, that will save me a bunch of grief. -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247754#247754 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wiring for the jab 3300
From: "Don McIntosh" <don(at)contractorsnorthwest.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2009
Are you talking about the sensor for RPM here because I was wondering also what to get to feed RPM info to my Dynon? Will this sensor you called out here do this? I am just getting ready to start all the wiring and sensor hookup. -------- Don McIntosh Kitfox Series 7 under construction Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247821#247821 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/complete_02_060909_809.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wiring for the jab 3300
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2009
Don, With the Dynon, you can just tap into one of the alternator output wires. Set the Dynon configuration to read 6 pulses per rev. That is what I did and it read within 1 RPM of a PropTach optical unit. Good luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL/Jabiru 3300 First flight 7/24/08 85 hours and climbing! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247828#247828 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wiring for the jab 3300
From: "Don McIntosh" <don(at)contractorsnorthwest.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2009
Great! Thanks, -------- Don McIntosh Kitfox Series 7 under construction Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247829#247829 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly20(at)COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 06/13/09
Date: Jun 14, 2009
please remove him form your mailing list ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 3300A Induction System
From: "sonex293" <sonex293(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 22, 2009
Well, after 28 hours I'm still battling high EGT's on Cylinders 3 & 5. during WOT. I've tried rotating the carburetor to try and compensate for the higher EGT temps on #3 and #5. On take-off I'm seeing 1450F+. As soon as I pull power back the temps drop to manageable levels although #3 & #5 are always the highest. I've decided the next time I'm out at the airport I want to check/inspect the induction path on cylinders #3 & #5 for leaks. The Operator's manual and parts manual don't describe the process of removing the induction tubes from the induction plenum. So I have somewhere to start, has anyone removed the lower induction tubes and are there any "gotchas" I need to worry about? The parts manual mentions an O-Ring at this interface? I don't want to damage anything. Anyone have any pictures they'd care to share? Thanks, Michael Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249616#249616 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: 3300A Induction System
Date: Jun 23, 2009
Yes, there are o-rings where the tubes plug into the plenum, and my engine, when new, had a bit of sealant around the tubes at that point also. When I rebuilt my engine, I smeared a bit of RTV around the tubes where they enter the plenum, just to be sure of no leaks. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 681.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jun 22, 2009, at 10:21 PM, sonex293 wrote: > > > Well, after 28 hours I'm still battling high EGT's on Cylinders 3 & > 5. during WOT. I've tried rotating the carburetor to try and > compensate for the higher EGT temps on #3 and #5. On take-off I'm > seeing 1450F+. As soon as I pull power back the temps drop to > manageable levels although #3 & #5 are always the highest. > > I've decided the next time I'm out at the airport I want to check/ > inspect the induction path on cylinders #3 & #5 for leaks. The > Operator's manual and parts manual don't describe the process of > removing the induction tubes from the induction plenum. So I have > somewhere to start, has anyone removed the lower induction tubes > and are there any "gotchas" I need to worry about? The parts > manual mentions an O-Ring at this interface? I don't want to > damage anything. Anyone have any pictures they'd care to share? > > Thanks, > Michael > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249616#249616 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 3300A Induction System
From: "wypaul" <loadout(at)bresnan.net>
Date: Jun 23, 2009
Michael, If you have the old style of exhaust with the gaskets at the head these will be likely suspects. An easy way to check for manifold leaks is to spray carb cleaner at all connects and joints while the engine is running. If you have a leak there will be a drop in RPM and the engine will run rough. I had the old style exhaust and mine would blow gaskets within a couple of hours of being replaced. I finally had the heads machined to take the new exhaust. Paul Spackman Q2 Jabiru 3300 #278 -------- Paul Spackman Q-2 Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249653#249653 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EGT's
From: "sonex293" <sonex293(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 23, 2009
Bobby, I should have mentioned that I'm running a Jabiru 3300A w/ Hyd Lifters which has the new exhaust and induction designs, as well as the new head fin design. I'm also running an AeroCarb instead of the Bing. Last week I put some monitored engine data on my website, which you can see here... I haven't gotten the courage yet to get near the spinning prop, as I've gotten that suggestion from some local automotive gearheads. Thanks for comments! -- Michael Crowder Jabiru 3300A w/ Hyd Lifters AeroCarb w/ #3 needle Sonex N293SX BobbyPaulk(at)COMCAST.NET wrote: > I have the Jab 3300 on a 601 XL that was running high EGT's on climb out at WOT. > > I finally had to go to a 260 main jet to get them down to manageable temps. They are now all in the 1200 to 1250 range. > > I also had to richen up the needle jet one size to lower cruise EGT's > you might want to try this. it also brought down my CHT's. > > Fuel consumption is 5.2 GPH at 2800 RPM > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249674#249674 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 3300A Induction System
Date: Jun 26, 2009
From: "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>
I had new gaskets blow in a 3300 after only a few hours, the holes weren't machined deep enough so the set screws were bottoming out. Thicker washers under the screws and it was OK. Regards, Clive -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of wypaul Sent: 23 June 2009 14:51 Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: 3300A Induction System Michael, If you have the old style of exhaust with the gaskets at the head these will be likely suspects. An easy way to check for manifold leaks is to spray carb cleaner at all connects and joints while the engine is running. If you have a leak there will be a drop in RPM and the engine will run rough. I had the old style exhaust and mine would blow gaskets within a couple of hours of being replaced. I finally had the heads machined to take the new exhaust. Paul Spackman Q2 Jabiru 3300 #278 -------- Paul Spackman Q-2 Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249653#249653 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 01, 2009
From: Rosalie <rosestar(at)sonic.net>
Subject: Oil Burn
I would like to know what everyone's oil burn rate is on the Jabiru 3300. If you wouldn't mind, please let me know how many hours on airplane, how often you add oil, and how much do you add. So far, mine is: TT: 42 hours; every five hours I add oil; 1/4 quart added each time. Now that I am flying longer trips, I expect my numbers will be larger in the last two categories. Thanks, Brad DeMeo N601BD - Zodiac XL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Burn
Date: Jul 01, 2009
TT 234hrs, 1oz/hr 100W Plus, or 1 1/2 oz/hr multigrade oil. I add oil at the end of each flight to keem my level at the same spot on the stick. I use a measuring cup and add 1oz for each hour flown during that flight. This way it can drain and I can get an accurate reading of the stick before I start my next flight day. Ivan Phoenix, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rosalie" <rosestar(at)sonic.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:42 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Oil Burn > > I would like to know what everyone's oil burn rate is on the Jabiru 3300. > If you wouldn't mind, please let me know how many hours on airplane, how > often you add oil, and how much do you add. So far, mine is: > > TT: 42 hours; every five hours I add oil; 1/4 quart added each time. > > Now that I am flying longer trips, I expect my numbers will be larger in > the last two categories. > > Thanks, > > Brad DeMeo > N601BD - Zodiac XL > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Oil Burn
Date: Jul 01, 2009
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
I've got about 100 hours on mine - am I supposed to be adding oil? Never checked - LOL!!! Seriously, I haven't been able to really track my usage properly. I end up with a lot going overboard as I have a tendency to have a bit too much fun when I fly :) ... It did seem to settle down for me though after my first 50 or so hours. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rosalie Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:43 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Oil Burn I would like to know what everyone's oil burn rate is on the Jabiru 3300. If you wouldn't mind, please let me know how many hours on airplane, how often you add oil, and how much do you add. So far, mine is: TT: 42 hours; every five hours I add oil; 1/4 quart added each time. Now that I am flying longer trips, I expect my numbers will be larger in the last two categories. Thanks, Brad DeMeo N601BD - Zodiac XL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Burn
Date: Jul 01, 2009
That's about when the engine was done with its break-in, wouldn't you suppose? Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 687.3 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jul 1, 2009, at 4:58 PM, Don Honabach wrote: > > > I've got about 100 hours on mine - am I supposed to be adding oil? > Never > checked - LOL!!! > > Seriously, I haven't been able to really track my usage properly. I > end > up with a lot going overboard as I have a tendency to have a bit too > much fun when I fly :) ... It did seem to settle down for me though > after my first 50 or so hours. > > Don > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Rosalie > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:43 PM > To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Oil Burn > > > I would like to know what everyone's oil burn rate is on the Jabiru > 3300. If you wouldn't mind, please let me know how many hours on > airplane, how often you add oil, and how much do you add. So far, > mine > is: > > TT: 42 hours; every five hours I add oil; 1/4 quart added each time. > > > Now that I am flying longer trips, I expect my numbers will be > larger in > > the last two categories. > > Thanks, > > Brad DeMeo > N601BD - Zodiac XL > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Burn
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Jul 02, 2009
With 87 or so total time on the hobbs, I am burning about 1/2 - 3/4 oz. per hour on 15W50. I had about that same rate on straight mineral oil during break-in. On my first oil change at 25 hours, I went to W100 and for some reason my consumption rate about quadrupled. When winter approached, I changed to 15W50. Seeing that consumption rate drop back down, I have not even considered going back to W100 this summer. Don't know why the big difference in consumption between the oil types. BTW, I keep my oil level between 1/4 and 1/2 on the dip stick per a verbal suggestion that, I believe, came from Pete. Good Luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL/Jabiru 3300 First flight 7/24/08 85 hours and climbing! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251090#251090 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Vossman" <bvossman(at)austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: oil Usage
Date: Jul 02, 2009
I have 200 hrs on my Jab 2200. I add 4 oz about every 3 hours to keep the level between "add oil" mark and 1/3 up the dipstick. Bob Sonex/Jab 2200 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RE: oil Usage
Date: Jul 02, 2009
From: zeprep251(at)aol.com
I have 440hrs on the 2200a in a MK3-C Kolb My vent system enters a 1 pint catch bottle then vents overboard The airframe stays clean by the vent hose,so all the oil ends up in the bottle.This indicates to me that the vent system on this engine requires some rethinking by Jabiru.My IO-470 continental used less oil in 25 hrs than the Jabiru does in 5hrs.This is a great little engine,they just need to tweak it in the vent and intake systems. ? ? ? Gary Aman ?? Akron Oh -----Original Message----- From: Bob Vossman <bvossman(at)austin.rr.com> Sent: Thu, Jul 2, 2009 8:51 am Subject: JabiruEngine-List: RE: oil Usage I have 200 hrs on my Jab 2200.? I add 4 oz about every 3 hours to keep the level between "add oil" mark and 1/3 up the dipstick. ? Bob? Sonex/Jab 2200 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RE: oil Usage
Date: Jul 02, 2009
That is about what I use on my Jab3300, possibly slightly more, and also about the same dipstick reading for add of oil. Tony Graziano Zodiac XL/Jab3300; 506 hrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Vossman To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 7:51 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: RE: oil Usage I have 200 hrs on my Jab 2200. I add 4 oz about every 3 hours to keep the level between "add oil" mark and 1/3 up the dipstick. Bob Sonex/Jab 2200 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Max length of oil cooler pipes
Date: Jul 02, 2009
From: "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>
Well my plan to fit the cooler up front seems doomed to failure so It will need to go on the firewall ala Lightning, thing is my battery is already in the way for the pilots side mount. So, does any one know what length I can make the hoses? To fit my cooler on the other side and they'll be 1.1 metres or 3.6 feet each way, lots of extra cooling but what about the flow business? Any idea of max length, AN6 fittings and hose and the donut bored out with 1/4 npt fittings? Regards, Clive ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kayberg(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jul 02, 2009
Subject: Re: RE: oil Usage
In a message dated 7/2/2009 9:40:10 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, zeprep251(at)aol.com writes: I have 440hrs on the 2200a in a MK3-C Kolb My vent system enters a 1 pint catch bottle then vents overboard The airframe stays clean by the vent hose,so all the oil ends up in the bottle.This indicates to me that the vent system on this engine requires some rethinking by Jabiru.My IO-470 continental used less oil in 25 hrs than the Jabiru does in 5hrs.This is a great little engine,they just need to tweak it in the vent and intake systems. The question of oil usage should be factored depending on the mission profile. If you have a bird that can be whipped around, the oil can accumulate in the overflow bottle rather rapidly. If you always fly like grandma, not more than 30 degree banks and all positive G's, then you may only be burning it. Of course it will depend on where and how you place you overflow bottle. It will also depend on wether you overfill your oil regularly. On a Kolb, you can get hammered around by thermals, so oil can be slopped up into the vent hose. Since most Continentals use about a quart in 5-10 hours, that means your Jabiru must be using from 2.5 to 5 quarts in 5 hours!! Seems to me that something else is going on. My experience is that Jabs do not burn much oil, but they can slop it with the best of them. Doug Koenigsberg. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: oil Usage
From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date: Jul 02, 2009
I have put very little in my A-2200 on my Kolb M3X with 32 hrs on it .However,I will pay close attention to what I add from here on out. And the vent catch on my engine seems to be a water/oil mix as it is very thin for it to be all oil not to mention if it was all oil from the crank case,then why is the oil level ok? After 2-3 hrs I empty the maybe 3-4 oz cup which is about 1/2 full. I simply soak what is in there with a paper towel and discard. chris ambrose M3X/Jab N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251267#251267 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Burn
From: "Stephen Smith" <sRoydSmith(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jul 02, 2009
My 3300 has been flying for two years and has about 550 hours on it. Here in Santa Rosa California I use Aeroshell 15w50 in the winter and Aeroshell 100 plus in the summer. Consumption has gone up over the past 150 hours or so. It is now at about 1 quart per 450 miles. I have minor seepage in several places on the engine but nothing I would call a leak. The volume of oil in the separator has been going up, but sure does not account for anything like the quantity being consumed. The spark plugs look reasonable - not fouled or dark. Compression check 25 hours ago is down to 70, 76, 74, 68, 60, 75. Not sure where the oil is going if its not past the rings and out the tail pipe. Yes, I toss my plane around a bit - it asks for it, I swear! In high angle climbs and steep banks I can smell hot oil for a few seconds. Frankly the consumption seem quite high and a bit disappointing. Anyone else with 550 or more hours? What is your consumption? My engine's dipstick had the S turns in it. I have flattened them out which makes the dipstick longer and allows me to use the original marks for full/add while having the oil level a bit lower. It also makes it less likely the oil level will be off the end of the dipstick. When that happens, you don't know how much to add. Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251271#251271 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: oil Usage
From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date: Jul 03, 2009
Lynn, For what it's worth...mine is #1228 A-2200. chris ambrose M3X/jab Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251410#251410 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 04, 2009
Subject: Re: Oil Burn
In a message dated 7/3/2009 12:49:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sRoydSmith(at)hotmail.com writes: Consumption has gone up over the past 150 hours or so. It is now at about 1 quart per 450 miles. Steve (and all), Interesting way to measure your oil consumption, but hard for us to know how to compare that without knowing at what speed your aircraft cruises. At 50 mph that would be 9 hours per quart and thus great oil consumption. However, at 150 mph that would be 3 hours per quart - nothing to brag about. My 3300 Jabiru (in a highly modified Esqual - N31BZ) has 575 hours in 3 &1/2 years. From memory, It is serial number 843 and has solid lifters. Most recent annual had compressions all between 70 and 74, and that was measured with the engine cold. I figure I could have added a pound or two of compression if I had done the compression check on a hot/warm engine. There are no signs of oil seepage anywhere on the engine. I generally run my engine rather hard (read that as a little above 2850) and my cross country cruise speeds at altitude always work out to 160 to 165 mph true airspeed burning about 5.8 gph. I also seem to "miss my Pitts" and more than occasionally am at rather "steeper" bank and climb angles, but have never noticed a hot oil smell that you mentioned. I change oil and filter every 25 to 30 hours and generally find the "slobber pot" about 1/3 full at each oil change. Since completing the engine break in I have used only Aeroshell W 100 Plus. I keep the oil level between the half full mark and the bottom mark on the dip stick. My best guess on my engine's oil consumption is probably about 1 quart in 7 to 8 hours. Blue Skies, Buz Rich **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: oil Usage
Date: Jul 04, 2009
Thanks, Chris. On another group, they suggest putting all pertinent data regarding the aircraft in your signature. (Of course, if you're writing to your girlfriend, you can delete all the airplane stuff.) That way, someone that may be able to help or comment, will know what engine they are dealing with. Saves some dummy like me from having to ask. Also, knowing the type of plane the engine is in helps too. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 689.3 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jul 4, 2009, at 1:18 AM, ces308 wrote: > > Lynn, > For what it's worth...mine is #1228 A-2200. > > chris ambrose > M3X/jab > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251410#251410 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 04, 2009
From: BobbyPaulk(at)COMCAST.NET
Subject: Torque
All, i have just re-torqued my head bolts ( 84 hrs TT on 3300A ) to 20 Ft./Lbs as instructed and found 3 cylinder bolts at the 6 o'clock position just a hair loose. it took less than an inch of rotation to click the torque wrench. i was wondering if anyone else was experiencing this situation. also the bolt just above it on the exhaust side of 2 cylinders did the same thing. i have all cylinders at cruise CHT's under 300 deg. except No. 2 and it runs about 310. (working on it ) thanks for any info, Bobby N131BP 601 XL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ivan" <imap8ntr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Torque
Date: Jul 04, 2009
Bobby, According to the Jabiru USA website the maintenance torque of the head bolts is 22 ft-lbs. Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: BobbyPaulk(at)COMCAST.NET To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 8:48 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Torque All, i have just re-torqued my head bolts ( 84 hrs TT on 3300A ) to 20 Ft./Lbs as instructed and found 3 cylinder bolts at the 6 o'clock position just a hair loose. it took less than an inch of rotation to click the torque wrench. i was wondering if anyone else was experiencing this situation. also the bolt just above it on the exhaust side of 2 cylinders did the same thing. i have all cylinders at cruise CHT's under 300 deg. except No. 2 and it runs about 310. (working on it ) thanks for any info, Bobby N131BP 601 XL ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Torque
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Jul 04, 2009
20 ft lbs is correct it was revised a few years back and is in the current maintenance manual, although 22 is close enough. In practice, on my engine some bolts move and some dont. The hex head ones exhibit less stiction whereas the capscrews often need a sharp pulse to break the setting. Jabiru instructions are NOT to back any bolts off to reset torque, therefore its a personal judgement as to how far you want to bump the torque over 20 ft lbs to be able to move the bolts to the correct setting. The lowest capscrew which is accessed via the NPT plug is the one that needs the most attention, so dont miss that one. Your results at 84 hrs seem normal enough. You only do this operation 50 hourly. Ralph @ 300hrs -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251508#251508 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Torque
Date: Jul 04, 2009
Not a 3300, but my 2200 exhibits the same 6 o'clock position lower torque readings. (I wonder when the term "xx o'clock position" will fade from memory as the new generation of kids brought up on digital time won't know what that means) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 691.6 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jul 4, 2009, at 11:48 AM, BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net wrote: > All, > i have just re-torqued my head bolts ( 84 hrs TT on 3300A ) to 20 > Ft./Lbs as instructed and found 3 cylinder bolts at the 6 o'clock > position just a hair loose. it took less than an inch of rotation > to click the torque wrench. > i was wondering if anyone else was experiencing this situation. > also the bolt just above it on the exhaust side of 2 cylinders did > the same thing. i have all cylinders at cruise CHT's under 300 > deg. except No. 2 and it runs about 310. (working on it ) > > thanks for any info, > > Bobby > N131BP > 601 XL > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Burn
From: "Stephen Smith" <sRoydSmith(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jul 04, 2009
Good point Buz. I dont run my engine hard. RPM are often around 2,500. I fly at about 100 MPH so that's a quart about every 4.5 hours. My plane is a Zenair zodiac XL N601WF. By the way, nice looking plane you have there. Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251524#251524 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 04, 2009
Subject: Re: Oil Burn
In a message dated 7/4/2009 7:12:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sRoydSmith(at)hotmail.com writes: nice looking plane you have there. Thanks, Steve, Our EAA chapter built a 601XL (N156WT) that has a 3300 Jab on it. Has been flying a little over two years and I think it has about 250 hours on it. I will have to ask the current owners about their oil usage. Blue Skies, Buz **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 05, 2009
Subject: Re: Oil Burn
From: Iberplanes IGL <iberplanes(at)gmail.com>
Hi Stephen, What=B4s the prop you are using? and what cruse speed do you get at 2450-25 00? Please, let me know. Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: @ home Engine: Jabiru 3300 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Burn
From: "Stephen Smith" <sRoydSmith(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jul 05, 2009
Hello Alberto, I have the Sensenich composite ground-adjustable prop. I have about 400 hours of flight data that I can analyze. Looking back through about the most recent 140 hours of data selected for 2,500 RPM at 2,000 feet I see 9 hours at 105 MPH average ground speed, 101 MPH average indicated airspeed. Steve --------------------------------------------- Hi Stephen, Whats the prop you are using? and what cruse speed do you get at 2450-2500? Please, let me know. Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es (http://www.iberplanes.es) Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: @ home Engine: Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251588#251588 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: oil Usage
From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date: Jul 05, 2009
Lynn and Gary, I will take some pictures of my set up tomorrow and show you guys. I believe my engine is doing fine on the oil burn...you have to remember that we are talking oz's of oil here..when you only have 2.4 qts it just seems like a lot when a little is missing.when talking on my O-320-E2D we talk in Quarts...not oz's.Lynn...you go to any fly-ins? I will put you on our Mi Kolb email list and maybe we can hook up some morning and talk Jabs ! chris ambrose M3X/Jab A-2200 N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251621#251621 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Burn
Date: Jul 06, 2009
From: "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>
My 2200a uses a squirt or two every three hours. I've never measured it accurately but I suspect a quart about over 20 hours or maybe less. It's done 1100 hrs now, it #596 and is on 15w50. Changing oil types never made a difference so I stick to multi grade all year. It's always used the same amount so I suspect it's burning it via the bores. The compressions were always disappointing prior to the new heads at 1004 hrs and now they are great though the prices I paid where astronomic. Chucking it about makes what's in the bottle worse, though there's never that much, recently I've routed the hose up higher via a loop of scat tube to run it to the highest point in the cowls that this seems to have made a minor improvement. Only done about 10 hours since so maybe just me being optimistic. My 3300 uses about the same as the 2200 but that's only done 15 hours and I'm hoping this will improve. There was a 2200a in our hangar that was about #900 and that never used a drop. The 3300 that I looked after until it was sold had 300 hrs on it and it uses about the same as the others mentioned above. Regards, Clive -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Smith Sent: 03 July 2009 05:48 Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Oil Burn --> My 3300 has been flying for two years and has about 550 hours on it. Here in Santa Rosa California I use Aeroshell 15w50 in the winter and Aeroshell 100 plus in the summer. Consumption has gone up over the past 150 hours or so. It is now at about 1 quart per 450 miles. I have minor seepage in several places on the engine but nothing I would call a leak. The volume of oil in the separator has been going up, but sure does not account for anything like the quantity being consumed. The spark plugs look reasonable - not fouled or dark. Compression check 25 hours ago is down to 70, 76, 74, 68, 60, 75. Not sure where the oil is going if its not past the rings and out the tail pipe. Yes, I toss my plane around a bit - it asks for it, I swear! In high angle climbs and steep banks I can smell hot oil for a few seconds. Frankly the consumption seem quite high and a bit disappointing. Anyone else with 550 or more hours? What is your consumption? My engine's dipstick had the S turns in it. I have flattened them out which makes the dipstick longer and allows me to use the original marks for full/add while having the oil level a bit lower. It also makes it less likely the oil level will be off the end of the dipstick. When that happens, you don't know how much to add. Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251271#251271 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Burn
From: "dons701" <burdon1(at)COMCAST.NET>
Date: Jul 06, 2009
While I am new to the 2200A I have worked with many other types of piston engines, racing and others. The 2200A is interesting in that there seems to be no real control of oil mist and crankcase pressure, i.e. collective combustion leakage past the rings normally found in all running piston engines. I have not removed the oil pan but, according to the engine parts manuals there is no crank scraper or windage tray as found in many race engines to control the oil mist wrapped around a spinning crankshaft. This crankcase pressure with mist and oil splatter obviously makes it's way out of the engine by using the dipstick tube / oil vent hose. A system that reduces or eliminates any liquid oil from making it's way out of the engine, allowing only "dry" normal combustion pressure to be relieved, would be optimal. Separating oil from the air would need to be done in stages by mechanically removing as much oil mist as possible from the spinning crank as said earlier, with scrappers and or a windage tray similar to any common race engine. Even a number of circular fine mesh screens situated on the dipstick might baffle the liquid oil but still allow gasses to escape. The ultimate goal would not only be to eliminate the oil collection bottle and retain oil in the engine, but would be to create a negative pressure in the crankcase as this would increase power by making the rings seal more efficiently. Initially as time allows, i will experiment with the dipstick baffle modification and later, a way of creating crankcase vacuum utilizing exhaust velocity in the exhaust pipe and report back on this site. I know there are many creative people on this site that might have already figured out some of these issues, or have better ideas :). If I am missing something or I am not correct let me and others know, lets learn together for the benefit of all. Thanks for reading, Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251750#251750 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Burn
Date: Jul 06, 2009
Well, one thing different from normal (to me anyway) racing engines that I've worked on, is that the crank isn't down near the oil in the pan, so no need...that I can see...for a windage tray. The "wind" just doesn't blow over the oil as it does in a V8, for example. The cam is between the spinning crank and the oil...approximately 4-6 inches away...and also, the speed of the crank is way below the normal racing engine, so I doubt that a windage tray would help much. Since I removed my fuel pump and blocked the hole with a flat metal plate, I've been thinking of maybe using that hole to get a little more breathing area for the engine, but haven't moved past the thinking stage. It would be interesting to install a window in the oil pan and see what goes on in there, oilwise, at 3000 or so rpm. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 695.8 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jul 6, 2009, at 10:58 AM, dons701 wrote: > > > While I am new to the 2200A I have worked with many other types of > piston engines, racing and others. The 2200A is interesting in that > there seems to be no real control of oil mist and crankcase > pressure, i.e. collective combustion leakage past the rings > normally found in all running piston engines. I have not removed > the oil pan but, according to the engine parts manuals there is no > crank scraper or windage tray as found in many race engines to > control the oil mist wrapped around a spinning crankshaft. This > crankcase pressure with mist and oil splatter obviously makes it's > way out of the engine by using the dipstick tube / oil vent hose. A > system that reduces or eliminates any liquid oil from making it's > way out of the engine, allowing only "dry" normal combustion > pressure to be relieved, would be optimal. Separating oil from the > air would need to be done in stages by mechanically removing as > much oil mist as possible from the spinning crank as said earlier, > with scrappers ! > and or a windage tray similar to any common race engine. Even a > number of circular fine mesh screens situated on the dipstick might > baffle the liquid oil but still allow gasses to escape. > The ultimate goal would not only be to eliminate the oil > collection bottle and retain oil in the engine, but would be to > create a negative pressure in the crankcase as this would increase > power by making the rings seal more efficiently. Initially as time > allows, i will experiment with the dipstick baffle modification and > later, a way of creating crankcase vacuum utilizing exhaust > velocity in the exhaust pipe and report back on this site. > I know there are many creative people on this site that might > have already figured out some of these issues, or have better > ideas :). If I am missing something or I am not correct let me > and others know, lets learn together for the benefit of all. Thanks > for reading, Don > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251750#251750 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Burn
From: "dons701" <burdon1(at)COMCAST.NET>
Date: Jul 06, 2009
Good point, the further the oil surface is away from the crank the better. But, as long as oil is squirting from all the rods and mains while spinning at any RPM there will be oil churning around down there. Any amount of oil making it's way out of the vent hose is too much. Yes, it would be interesting just to be able to remove the dipstick while the engine is running (without the prop blast), I know I would not want to be looking to close down the dipstick tube. [Laughing] Thanks, Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251807#251807 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oil Burn
Date: Jul 06, 2009
From: zeprep251(at)aol.com
Lynn, ?I believe the later engines have a deeper oil pan to relieve the problem. G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> Sent: Mon, Jul 6, 2009 1:37 pm Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Oil Burn ? Well, one thing different from normal (to me anyway) racing engines that I've worked on, is that the crank isn't down near the oil in the pan, so no need...that I can see...for a windage tray. The "wind" just doesn't blow over the oil as it does in a V8, for example. The cam is between the spinning crank and the oil...approximately 4-6 inches away...and also, the speed of the crank is way below the normal racing engine, so I doubt that a windage tray would help much.? Since I removed my fuel pump and blocked the hole with a flat metal plate, I've been thinking of maybe using that hole to get a little more breathing area for the engine, but haven't moved past the thinking stage.? ? It would be interesting to install a window in the oil pan and see what goes on in there, oilwise, at 3000 or so rpm.? ? Lynn Matteson? Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger? Jabiru 2200, #2062, 695.8 hrs? Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop? Electroair direct-fire ignition system? Status: flying? ? ? On Jul 6, 2009, at 10:58 AM, dons701 wrote:? ? >? > While I am new to the 2200A I have worked with many other types of > piston engines, racing and others. The 2200A is interesting in that > there seems to be no real control of oil mist and crankcase > pressure, i.e. collective combustion leakage past the rings > normally found in all running piston engines. I have not removed > the oil pan but, according to the engine parts manuals there is no > crank scraper or windage tray as found in many race engines to > control the oil mist wrapped around a spinning crankshaft. This > crankcase pressure with mist and oil splatter obviously makes it's > way out of the engine by using the dipstick tube / oil vent hose. A > system that reduces or eliminates any liquid oil from making it's > way out of the engine, allowing only "dry" normal combustion > pressure to be relieved, would be optimal. Separating oil from the > air would need to be done in stages by mechanically removing as > much oil mist as possible from the spinning crank as said earlier, > with scrappers !? > and or a windage tray similar to any common race engine. Even a > number of circular fine mesh screens situated on the dipstick might > baffle the liquid oil but still allow gasses to escape.? > The ultimate goal would not only be to eliminate the oil > collection bottle and retain oil in the engine, but would be to > create a negative pressure in the crankcase as this would increase > power by making the rings seal more efficiently. Initially as time > allows, i will experiment with the dipstick baffle modification and > later, a way of creating crankcase vacuum utilizing exhaust > velocity in the exhaust pipe and report back on this site.? > I know there are many creative people on this site that might > have already figured out some of these issues, or have better > ideas :). If I am missing something or I am not correct let me > and others know, lets learn together for the benefit of all. Thanks > for reading, Don? >? >? >? >? > Read this topic online here:? >? > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251750#251750? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 07, 2009
From: BobbyPaulk(at)COMCAST.NET
Subject: Compression
all, i have just taken differential compression test on my 3300A with 84 hrs S.N. 1141.( Conditional Inspection ) No. 2 and 6 had 75 & 77 the rest had low to mid 60's. i could rock the prop to seat the rings and get another 5 ~ 6 lbs. while on #5 near the oil collector bottle i could feel air out the bottle vent so the air is going thru the rings and pressurizing the crankcase. Test was on a cold engine setting up for about 2 weeks. my question is at 84 hrs could this many cylinders have rings not yet seated. last year all were in the high 70's. the engine starts fine as always and i have not noticed any power drop. the first 40 hrs or so the engine ran too lean and it was difficult to control high EGT / CHT's. any ideas?? Bobby 601 XL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Compression
Date: Jul 07, 2009
Bobby, Have you tried "dynamic"compression testing (see compression testing Page 18 of Jab Instruction & Maintenance Manual, Rev 3 dated 18 Jul 2008. (this is for the solid lifter 3300A - suspect the hydraulic lifter is the same) Para 5.7.8 "Compression Testing: Condition of compression can be done by a compression gauge. Wide open throttle, engine warm. Turn over on starter. Below 90 psi would indicate removal of head and possibly cylinder> At my last annual, almost a year ago, I read 160#, 160#, 160#, 165#, 165 and 170# on my Jab with 408 hrs. Not much, if any, change from the years before. Tony Graziano ZodiacXL/Jab3300A - Ser 33A644; N493TG; 509 hrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: BobbyPaulk(at)COMCAST.NET To: jabiruengine-list-digest(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:30 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Compression all, i have just taken differential compression test on my 3300A with 84 hrs S.N. 1141.( Conditional Inspection ) No. 2 and 6 had 75 & 77 the rest had low to mid 60's. i could rock the prop to seat the rings and get another 5 ~ 6 lbs. while on #5 near the oil collector bottle i could feel air out the bottle vent so the air is going thru the rings and pressurizing the crankcase. Test was on a cold engine setting up for about 2 weeks. my question is at 84 hrs could this many cylinders have rings not yet seated. last year all were in the high 70's. the engine starts fine as always and i have not noticed any power drop. the first 40 hrs or so the engine ran too lean and it was difficult to control high EGT / CHT's. any ideas?? Bobby 601 XL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: M&H Moreau <mjmorea(at)videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Compression
Date: Jul 07, 2009
I have a similar problem. Just worse.. After 140 hours my engine is leaking through the valves and the rings. The differentail test gives : 40/80, 49/80, 34/80, 55/80 Strangely a compression test gives: 153, 156, 147, 159 At 90 hours I had the cylinders were honed and the rings changed!! I don't know were to turn to obtain a rational explanation.. Michel, Q-2 (Ser# 22A1093) ----- Original Message ----- From: BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net To: jabiruengine-list-digest(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 11:30 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Compression all, i have just taken differential compression test on my 3300A with 84 hrs S.N. 1141.( Conditional Inspection ) No. 2 and 6 had 75 & 77 the rest had low to mid 60's. i could rock the prop to seat the rings and get another 5 ~ 6 lbs. while on #5 near the oil collector bottle i could feel air out the bottle vent so the air is going thru the rings and pressurizing the crankcase. Test was on a cold engine setting up for about 2 weeks. my question is at 84 hrs could this many cylinders have rings not yet seated. last year all were in the high 70's. the engine starts fine as always and i have not noticed any power drop. the first 40 hrs or so the engine ran too lean and it was difficult to control high EGT / CHT's. any ideas?? Bobby 601 XL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Haas" <checkpoint2(at)COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Oil Burn
Date: Jul 08, 2009
Vent the oil separator back to the sump via a three way fitting at the sump drain. No spots on my hanger floor at 333.8 Hobbs time. Bob Haas N380BH. -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dons701 Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 10:58 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Oil Burn While I am new to the 2200A I have worked with many other types of piston engines, racing and others. The 2200A is interesting in that there seems to be no real control of oil mist and crankcase pressure, i.e. collective combustion leakage past the rings normally found in all running piston engines. I have not removed the oil pan but, according to the engine parts manuals there is no crank scraper or windage tray as found in many race engines to control the oil mist wrapped around a spinning crankshaft. This crankcase pressure with mist and oil splatter obviously makes it's way out of the engine by using the dipstick tube / oil vent hose. A system that reduces or eliminates any liquid oil from making it's way out of the engine, allowing only "dry" normal combustion pressure to be relieved, would be optimal. Separating oil from the air would need to be done in stages by mechanically removing as much oil mist as possible from the spinning crank as said earlier, with scrappers ! and or a windage tray similar to any common race engine. Even a number of circular fine mesh screens situated on the dipstick might baffle the liquid oil but still allow gasses to escape. The ultimate goal would not only be to eliminate the oil collection bottle and retain oil in the engine, but would be to create a negative pressure in the crankcase as this would increase power by making the rings seal more efficiently. Initially as time allows, i will experiment with the dipstick baffle modification and later, a way of creating crankcase vacuum utilizing exhaust velocity in the exhaust pipe and report back on this site. I know there are many creative people on this site that might have already figured out some of these issues, or have better ideas :). If I am missing something or I am not correct let me and others know, lets learn together for the benefit of all. Thanks for reading, Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251750#251750 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 17:54:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
Subject: Compression
Date: Jul 09, 2009
I=99ve tried dynamic tests over the years and found them to be more lying than a politician on the campaign trail. Also when they do actually find a low cylinder you still have the problem of finding where compression is lost. Noel From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of T. Graziano Sent: 07 July 2009 17:23 Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Compression Bobby, Have you tried "dynamic"compression testing (see compression testing Page 18 of Jab Instruction & Maintenance Manual, Rev 3 dated 18 Jul 2008. (this is for the solid lifter 3300A - suspect the hydraulic lifter is the same) Para 5.7.8 "Compression Testing: Condition of compression can be done by a compression gauge. Wide open throttle, engine warm. Turn over on starter. Below 90 psi would indicate removal of head and possibly cylinder> At my last annual, almost a year ago, I read 160#, 160#, 160#, 165#, 165 and 170# on my Jab with 408 hrs. Not much, if any, change from the years before. Tony Graziano ZodiacXL/Jab3300A - Ser 33A644; N493TG; 509 hrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: BobbyPaulk(at)COMCAST.NET Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:30 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Compression all, i have just taken differential compression test on my 3300A with 84 hrs S.N. 1141.( Conditional Inspection ) No. 2 and 6 had 75 & 77 the rest had low to mid 60's. i could rock the prop to seat the rings and get another 5 ~ 6 lbs. while on #5 near the oil collector bottle i could feel air out the bottle vent so the air is going thru the rings and pressurizing the crankcase. Test was on a cold engine setting up for about 2 weeks. my question is at 84 hrs could this many cylinders have rings not yet seated. last year all were in the high 70's. the engine starts fine as always and i have not noticed any power drop. the first 40 hrs or so the engine ran too lean and it was difficult to control high EGT / CHT's. any ideas?? Bobby 601 XL href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Compression
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 09, 2009
Hi Guys, Are you making sure to test with an engine up at operating temps. Shouldn't be cold. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252386#252386 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: jabiru 2200 Turbo - Just finished and tested
From: "EdgePerformance" <post(at)edgeperformance.no>
Date: Jul 10, 2009
just finished of 25hours of flight. So far every thing works great ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMtAc1T_oMA -------- Kitfox IV w\ Jabiru 2200 Turbo\Aerocarb Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252493#252493 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: M&H Moreau <mjmorea(at)videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Compression
Date: Jul 11, 2009
Not quite at operating temp but hot.... Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 7:51 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Compression > > Hi Guys, > > Are you making sure to test with an engine up at operating temps. > Shouldn't be cold. > > -------- > Roger Lee > Tucson, Az. > Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated > Rotax Service Center > 520-574-1080 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252386#252386 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 2009
From: <dwm(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Auto Response from dwm(at)gvtc.com
out of town until July 19th. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 3300 Solid lifters
From: "chuck960" <chuckde(at)roadrunner.com>
Date: Jul 13, 2009
Hi! Does anyone know when Jab switched to the hydraulic lifters? Was it for convenience of maintenance or longevity of the motor / parts? Chuck Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252845#252845 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: 3300 Solid lifters
Date: Jul 13, 2009
According to their "Summary of Significant Engine Changes", it was serial #2068 for the 2200, and #961 for the 3300. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 702 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jul 13, 2009, at 5:41 PM, chuck960 wrote: > > > Hi! > Does anyone know when Jab switched to the hydraulic lifters? Was it > for convenience of maintenance or longevity of the motor / parts? > Chuck > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252845#252845 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 2009
From: <dwm(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Auto Response from dwm(at)gvtc.com
out of town until July 19th. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2009
From: <dwm(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Auto Response from dwm(at)gvtc.com
out of town until July 19th. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 2009
From: <dwm(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Auto Response from dwm(at)gvtc.com
out of town until July 19th. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "peter disher" <pjdisher(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: 2 pictures for you
Date: Jul 25, 2009
Hi Bobby This is what improved my CHTs to no end, I now have greater than 5 inch water gauge pressure diff. from inside the air duct to inside the engine compartment (cowling). (2 pic. attached) Pete D VH-PDI You have been sent 2 pictures. IMG_6135.JPG IMG_6138.JPG These pictures were sent with Picasa, from Google. Try it out here: http://picasa.google.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: RE: oil Usage
Date: Jul 30, 2009
Thanks for the update, Gary. I removed my "puke jar" as I like to call it, last week during my most recent 25-hour oil change. It had collected 5 oz of oil and a *very* little bit of water...maybe 1/2 oz out of that 5 oz. Then, because my puke jar/collection bottle is translucent, I calibrated it at 2 oz intervals, and made marks on the side. Now when I have the cowl off, I can make a note that at such- and-such hours, I had collected "XX" oz of oil. This will help me monitor engine wear, oil performance, etc. During that 25 hours of operation, I only added 6 oz of new oil to top off the oil sump. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 712 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Jul 29, 2009, at 11:05 PM, zeprep251(at)aol.com wrote: > Lynn, > Built a separator, 5 vane 6" tall and insulated it.Last 2 hrs > have collected 1"of moisture in the catch bottle but no oil.Now I > can keep tabs on oil consumption.Finished a 4 vane 4" tall > separator that I will install this weekend.They look weird but it's > effective.I'll just keep making it smaller until it can't trap the > oil.Here's a picture. > G.Aman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Missler <misslerfarms(at)msn.com>
Subject: Engine Dipstick 2200
Date: Aug 02, 2009
I recently started test flying my Kitfox 3 with Jabiru 2200 # 976 and Jrinc e 64-28 prop. Everything is going fine except that I can not easily remove the dipstick when hot. I like to moniter oil level after each flight but ha ve to wait till it cools down or use a pliers which is difficult. I have re moved about .030" from the thread outside diamater of the plastic cap and u sed a #16 thread file to cut them a little deeper with no results. I also p ut some grease on the threads with no improvement. Has anyone else had this problem and what did you do to correct it? Thanks for your help. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR _sync:082009 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2009
From: Keith Pickford <kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Engine Dipstick 2200
Don't do it up so tight - the alloy expands with the heat and tightens it =C2- Regards =C2- Keith --- On Mon, 3/8/09, James Missler wrote: From: James Missler <misslerfarms(at)msn.com> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Dipstick 2200 Received: Monday, 3 August, 2009, 1:24 PM #yiv1857686610 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv1857686610 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} I recently started test flying my Kitfox 3 with Jabiru 2200 # 976 and Jrinc e 64-28 prop. Everything is going fine except that I can not easily remove the dipstick when hot. I like to moniter oil level after each flight but ha ve to wait till it cools down or use a pliers which is difficult. I have re moved about .030" from the thread outside diamater of the plastic cap and u sed a #16 thread file to cut them a little deeper with no results. I also p ut some grease on the threads with no improvement. Has anyone else had this problem and=C2- what did you do to correct it?=C2-=C2- Thanks for yo ur help. Windows Live=84=A2: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Dipstick 2200
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Aug 02, 2009
Everyone seems to have the same difficulty and it is not about it being over tight to start with but the threads hold firm when it is hot. Best just to live with it as its hard to get a valid reading off a recently run engine or after adding oil for quite some time. On the other hand if you leave it a few days the oil from filter / cooler drains back increasing the reading on the stick above the actual qty. available. Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255724#255724 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Dipstick 2200
Date: Aug 03, 2009
what did you do to correct it? >> Dont do it! You wont get an accurate reading while the engine has just been run anyway. Cheers Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Dipstick 2200
Date: Aug 03, 2009
Hi Jim- The first thing to do is not tighten it up so much. You'd be surprised how little tightening needs to done on the dipstick. I never worry too much about mine coming loose because my cowl will prevent it from coming out completely, so I've experimented around with leaving it looser and looser. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 720 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Soon to have Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: working on TBI installation...very close to completion On Aug 2, 2009, at 9:24 PM, James Missler wrote: > I recently started test flying my Kitfox 3 with Jabiru 2200 # 976 > and Jrince 64-28 prop. Everything is going fine except that I can > not easily remove the dipstick when hot. I like to moniter oil > level after each flight but have to wait till it cools down or use > a pliers which is difficult. I have removed about .030" from the > thread outside diamater of the plastic cap and used a #16 thread > file to cut them a little deeper with no results. I also put some > grease on the threads with no improvement. Has anyone else had this > problem and what did you do to correct it? Thanks for your help. > Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. Check it out._- > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Some interesting temperatures recorded
Date: Aug 11, 2009
Since I bought and installed the Rotec TBI-40 mechanical fuel injector on my Jabiru 2200 mechanical lifter engine, serial #2062, I've been pretty impressed with the results. Mainly the ability to adjust the mixture. For the last month, I've been making flights at various speeds and directions, and recording the EGT's and CHT's and rpm's and fuel flows with the Bing carb, and for the last week with the TBI. All the tests have been done with flights into the wind, with the wind, and perpendicular to the wind, and mostly at about 2000-3000 feet AGL. Yesterday I decided to average the results. While this is certainly not a scientific approach, it's the best I could do without having a recording device aboard, and feeding the info into a computer. Bing: EGT spread 89 deg F. CHT spread 44.4 deg F Fuel flow 4.27 gph Rotec TBI: EGT spread 84 deg F. CHT spread 21 deg F. Fuel flow 3.25 gph While these numbers may not mean much without the actual temperature numbers, it is interesting that I saw CHT's for the TBI as close as 3 degrees apart, ranging from 322 to 325. (Keep in mind that I take my readings from a thermocouple attached directly on the head, between the spark plugs, not on the spark plug location which puts the reading about a half-inch ABOVE the head, so my CHT readings will show a higher number.) Other readings of CHT's show spreads of 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 20, etc. The closest I was ever able to get the Bing CHT's was 30, 31, 34, 35, 36, etc. In thinking about why this differential in CHT's should be, between the Bing and the TBI, I can only point to the fact that the Bing has a horizontal throttle plate and shaft to which it is mounted, and the TBI has....in my installation, anyway....a vertical fuel-discharge tube, the only obstruction in the airflow at wide-open- throttle (WOT). Now the Jabiru has a vertical splitter, and maybe the vertical discharge tube and the vertical splitter make for less turbulence, and therefore more even fuel charges going into each cylinder, I don't know for sure. But the numbers are showing something to be quite different in the CHT department at least, and a less dramatic comparison in the EGT's. I'm gonna start going on longer flights today, and see how the numbers look while actually going somewhere besides around the patch. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 727.5 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: TBI installation done...tests flights underway ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some
Date: Aug 15, 2009
Over the last week, I've had some fun making some tests with my newly- installed Rotec TBI-40 mixture-adjustable, carburetor-replacement device on my Jabiru engine. I don't know whether two of these units will work on a Rotax, so many of you might want to hit the delete key right now. For the most part, I was flying it LOP (lean-of-peak), but yesterday I made a flight and decided that I would try ROP (rich-of-peak). In flying LOP, the articles I've read say to keep the power requirements low, and LOP will work and you won't burn the engine down. I was amazed that this LOP thing even works at all, let alone work as well as I've found that it seems too....I guess I'm still a bit of a skeptic. After all, if going lean is a bad thing, how can going even leaner be a good thing? I won't argue whether or not it's a good or bad thing, and there are those of you that may not be able to do any leaning at all, as I was until I got this unit. Three days ago, I made two trips totaling 475 miles, using LOP settings, and yesterday I made a 310-mile trip, using ROP settings. I had flown the 475 miles leaning out the engine until peak EGT, then leaning more until the engine was obviously low on power, and I contentedly flew at this setting, watching the scenery crawl by. Yesterday I decided to actually GO somewhere, and never mind the fuel saving, I just wanted to get there, so I decided to try ROP. Here are the average numbers from those trips: LOP: 27.77 miles per gallon; 3.3 gallons per hour; 93.14 miles per hour ROP: 23.66 miles per gallon; 4.37 gallons per hour; 103.3 miles per hour Altitudes on all of these flight were anywhere from 3000' MSL (with a base of 1000') to 10,000 MSL, with throttle settings from 2600 rpm to 3050. Fuel flow as seen on the gauge, ranged from 2.5 gallons per hour to 5.0 not including takeoffs, but including climbs. So you can see from these figures (admittedly a low number of samples) that it does pay to tweak the mixture, and even if flown LOP, the speed is not too bad. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 737.3 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 15, 2009
Subject: Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some
Good Afternoon Lynn, Just as a quick recap of LOP versus ROP, may we specify what it is that we are lean of or rich of? Generally speaking, most folks like to think of rich or lean in relation to EGT temperature, but the thing we really want to know is whether we are on the rich side or the lean side of best power. At best power, almost all of the air that is available will be used. By checking the temperature with an EGT gauge, we will find that when we are running at "best" power, the EGT gauge will generally read about 60 degrees F cooler than it will at peak EGT. We therefore now know that peak EGT occurs on the lean side of best power. Another way to say that is that best power can be found about sixty to eighty degrees richer than Peak EGT The hottest internal combustion temperature will occur when just a bit lean of best power. Most of our automobile engines are designed to run right at best power most of the time. Our aircraft engines tend to be designed to run at full takeoff power for a relatively short time and the cooling capabilities are designed to be able to handle full power by adding extra fuel to the mixture which will slow down the rate of burn, move the point of peak cylinder pressure later in the combustion process and allow us to keep the engine temps below the redline while developing high power. So --- If we are at full or high power running rich and we make the mixture less rich, we are taking away some of the fuel that has been used to move the flame front later in the cycle and the cylinder temperatures will rise. However, if we continue to reduce the fuel flow, the internal temperature will peak at some rather high number. That will be very close to the best power mixture. The problem is that our engines are not designed to cool properly at that high a cylinder pressure. If we continue to make the mixture less rich, it will eventually get to the peak EGT. That will occur with an EGT that is between fifty and eighty degrees Fahrenheit hotter than it was at the peak combustion temperature point. If we now continue to lean the mixture, the EGT will drop. Less fuel means less fire and the cylinder temperatures and pressures will continue to drop. At a cruise power of sixty to seventy percent for most light aircraft engines, the best BSFC (Brake Specific Fuel Consumption) will be found with an EGT about twenty degrees F leaner than Peak EGT. (Or about seventy-five to one hundred degrees away from best power.) It makes sense that when you are burning less fuel the temperatures will be lower, but when we are running at very high power settings, we need the extra fuel to keep the peak combustion pressure and temperatures down. Thus, it can truthfully be said that there are times when leaning the engine will make the heads run hotter, but there are also times when leaning the mixture will make the heads run cooler. As Always, It All depends! Make any sense at all? Happy Skies, Old Bob Stearman N3977A LL22 In a message dated 8/15/2009 1:21:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lynnmatt(at)jps.net writes: --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Over the last week, I've had some fun making some tests with my newly- installed Rotec TBI-40 mixture-adjustable, carburetor-replacement device on my Jabiru engine. I don't know whether two of these units will work on a Rotax, so many of you might want to hit the delete key right now. For the most part, I was flying it LOP (lean-of-peak), but yesterday I made a flight and decided that I would try ROP (rich-of-peak). In flying LOP, the articles I've read say to keep the power requirements low, and LOP will work and you won't burn the engine down. I was amazed that this LOP thing even works at all, let alone work as well as I've found that it seems too....I guess I'm still a bit of a skeptic. After all, if going lean is a bad thing, how can going even leaner be a good thing? I won't argue whether or not it's a good or bad thing, and there are those of you that may not be able to do any leaning at all, as I was until I got this unit. Three days ago, I made two trips totaling 475 miles, using LOP settings, and yesterday I made a 310-mile trip, using ROP settings. I had flown the 475 miles leaning out the engine until peak EGT, then leaning more until the engine was obviously low on power, and I contentedly flew at this setting, watching the scenery crawl by. Yesterday I decided to actually GO somewhere, and never mind the fuel saving, I just wanted to get there, so I decided to try ROP. Here are the average numbers from those trips: LOP: 27.77 miles per gallon; 3.3 gallons per hour; 93.14 miles per hour ROP: 23.66 miles per gallon; 4.37 gallons per hour; 103.3 miles per hour Altitudes on all of these flight were anywhere from 3000' MSL (with a base of 1000') to 10,000 MSL, with throttle settings from 2600 rpm to 3050. Fuel flow as seen on the gauge, ranged from 2.5 gallons per hour to 5.0 not including takeoffs, but including climbs. So you can see from these figures (admittedly a low number of samples) that it does pay to tweak the mixture, and even if flown LOP, the speed is not too bad. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 737.3 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some
Date: Aug 15, 2009
Yeah, it makes sense, and I hope I'm doing it right. I lean until the peak EGT is found, then either richen about 50 degrees (that's what I've read) for ROP, or continue leaning until the EGT's (all four of them in my case) also drop about 50 degrees. The CHT's also come down in my engine, as well as the power....the engine feels like my car does when I turn on the air conditioner...kinda sagging in power. But I NEVER do this LOP setting when I am over about 2850 rpm (red line 3300) or when I am stressing the engine. If I'm doing something that would hurt the engine, I'd certainly like to be alerted to it. But I only go lean-of-peak EGT when in a slow cruise mode. (When I mentioned going to 3050 rpm, I was referring to going to ROP in a low power-requirement mode.) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 737.3 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying On Aug 15, 2009, at 4:16 PM, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote: > Good Afternoon Lynn, > > Just as a quick recap of LOP versus ROP, may we specify what it is > that we are lean of or rich of? > > Generally speaking, most folks like to think of rich or lean in > relation to EGT temperature, but the thing we really want to know > is whether we are on the rich side or the lean side of best power. > At best power, almost all of the air that is available will be > used. By checking the temperature with an EGT gauge, we will find > that when we are running at "best" power, the EGT gauge will > generally read about 60 degrees F cooler than it will at peak EGT. > We therefore now know that peak EGT occurs on the lean side of best > power. Another way to say that is that best power can be found > about sixty to eighty degrees richer than Peak EGT > > The hottest internal combustion temperature will occur when just a > bit lean of best power. Most of our automobile engines are designed > to run right at best power most of the time. Our aircraft engines > tend to be designed to run at full takeoff power for a relatively > short time and the cooling capabilities are designed to be able to > handle full power by adding extra fuel to the mixture which will > slow down the rate of burn, move the point of peak cylinder > pressure later in the combustion process and allow us to keep the > engine temps below the redline while developing high power. > > So --- If we are at full or high power running rich and we make > the mixture less rich, we are taking away some of the fuel that has > been used to move the flame front later in the cycle and the > cylinder temperatures will rise. However, if we continue to reduce > the fuel flow, the internal temperature will peak at some rather > high number. That will be very close to the best power mixture. The > problem is that our engines are not designed to cool properly at > that high a cylinder pressure. If we continue to make the mixture > less rich, it will eventually get to the peak EGT. That will occur > with an EGT that is between fifty and eighty degrees Fahrenheit > hotter than it was at the peak combustion temperature point. If we > now continue to lean the mixture, the EGT will drop. Less fuel > means less fire and the cylinder temperatures and pressures will > continue to drop. At a cruise power of sixty to seventy percent for > most light aircraft engines, the best BSFC (Brake Specific Fuel > Consumption) will be found with an EGT about twenty degrees F > leaner than Peak EGT. (Or about seventy-five to one hundred degrees > away from best power.) It makes sense that when you are burning > less fuel the temperatures will be lower, but when we are running > at very high power settings, we need the extra fuel to keep the > peak combustion pressure and temperatures down. > > Thus, it can truthfully be said that there are times when leaning > the engine will make the heads run hotter, but there are also times > when leaning the mixture will make the heads run cooler. > > As Always, It All depends! > > Make any sense at all? > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > Stearman N3977A > LL22 > > In a message dated 8/15/2009 1:21:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > lynnmatt(at)jps.net writes: > > > Over the last week, I've had some fun making some tests with my newly- > installed Rotec TBI-40 mixture-adjustable, carburetor-replacement > device on my Jabiru engine. I don't know whether two of these units > will work on a Rotax, so many of you might want to hit the delete key > right now. > > For the most part, I was flying it LOP (lean-of-peak), but yesterday > I made a flight and decided that I would try ROP (rich-of-peak). In > flying LOP, the articles I've read say to keep the power requirements > low, and LOP will work and you won't burn the engine down. I was > amazed that this LOP thing even works at all, let alone work as well > as I've found that it seems too....I guess I'm still a bit of a > skeptic. After all, if going lean is a bad thing, how can going even > leaner be a good thing? I won't argue whether or not it's a good or > bad thing, and there are those of you that may not be able to do any > leaning at all, as I was until I got this unit. > Three days ago, I made two trips totaling 475 miles, using LOP > settings, and yesterday I made a 310-mile trip, using ROP settings. I > had flown the 475 miles leaning out the engine until peak EGT, then > leaning more until the engine was obviously low on power, and I > contentedly flew at this setting, watching the scenery crawl by. > Yesterday I decided to actually GO somewhere, and never mind the fuel > saving, I just wanted to get there, so I decided to try ROP. > Here are the average numbers from those trips: > > LOP: 27.77 miles per gallon; 3.3 gallons per hour; 93.14 > miles per hour > ROP: 23.66 miles per gallon; 4.37 gallons per hour; 103.3 > miles per > hour > > Altitudes on all of these flight were anywhere from 3000' MSL (with a > base of 1000') to 10,000 MSL, with throttle settings from 2600 rpm to > 3050. Fuel flow as seen on the gauge, ranged from 2.5 gallons per > hour to 5.0 not including takeoffs, but including climbs. > > So you can see from these figures (admittedly a low number of > samples) that it does pay to tweak the mixture, and even if flown > LOP, the speed is not too bad. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 737.3 hrs > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Rotec TBI-40 injection > Status: flying > > > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 15, 2009
Subject: Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some
Good Afternoon Lynn, The only comment I would make is to be certain that you only use the fifty rich mode when you are pulling seventy percent power or less. Fifty rich of peak will give you the hottest cylinder temperature that you can get. It is a mixture to be avoided at any high power settings. I restrict a fifty rich setting to no higher than sixty-five percent power, but I tend to be on the cautious side. Fifty lean of peak is leaner than you need for optimum economy. Twenty lean is just about perfect at sixty-five percent power. Fifty lean won't hurt a thing, but you lose a little efficiency. Sounds like fun though. Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 8/15/2009 5:28:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lynnmatt(at)jps.net writes: --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Yeah, it makes sense, and I hope I'm doing it right. I lean until the peak EGT is found, then either richen about 50 degrees (that's what I've read) for ROP, or continue leaning until the EGT's (all four of them in my case) also drop about 50 degrees. The CHT's also come down in my engine, as well as the power....the engine feels like my car does when I turn on the air conditioner...kinda sagging in power. But I NEVER do this LOP setting when I am over about 2850 rpm (red line 3300) or when I am stressing the engine. If I'm doing something that would hurt the engine, I'd certainly like to be alerted to it. But I only go lean-of-peak EGT when in a slow cruise mode. (When I mentioned going to 3050 rpm, I was referring to going to ROP in a low power-requirement mode.) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 737.3 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying On Aug 15, 2009, at 4:16 PM, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote: > Good Afternoon Lynn, > > Just as a quick recap of LOP versus ROP, may we specify what it is > that we are lean of or rich of? > > Generally speaking, most folks like to think of rich or lean in > relation to EGT temperature, but the thing we really want to know > is whether we are on the rich side or the lean side of best power. > At best power, almost all of the air that is available will be > used. By checking the temperature with an EGT gauge, we will find > that when we are running at "best" power, the EGT gauge will > generally read about 60 degrees F cooler than it will at peak EGT. > We therefore now know that peak EGT occurs on the lean side of best > power. Another way to say that is that best power can be found > about sixty to eighty degrees richer than Peak EGT > > The hottest internal combustion temperature will occur when just a > bit lean of best power. Most of our automobile engines are designed > to run right at best power most of the time. Our aircraft engines > tend to be designed to run at full takeoff power for a relatively > short time and the cooling capabilities are designed to be able to > handle full power by adding extra fuel to the mixture which will > slow down the rate of burn, move the point of peak cylinder > pressure later in the combustion process and allow us to keep the > engine temps below the redline while developing high power. > > So --- If we are at full or high power running rich and we make > the mixture less rich, we are taking away some of the fuel that has > been used to move the flame front later in the cycle and the > cylinder temperatures will rise. However, if we continue to reduce > the fuel flow, the internal temperature will peak at some rather > high number. That will be very close to the best power mixture. The > problem is that our engines are not designed to cool properly at > that high a cylinder pressure. If we continue to make the mixture > less rich, it will eventually get to the peak EGT. That will occur > with an EGT that is between fifty and eighty degrees Fahrenheit > hotter than it was at the peak combustion temperature point. If we > now continue to lean the mixture, the EGT will drop. Less fuel > means less fire and the cylinder temperatures and pressures will > continue to drop. At a cruise power of sixty to seventy percent for > most light aircraft engines, the best BSFC (Brake Specific Fuel > Consumption) will be found with an EGT about twenty degrees F > leaner than Peak EGT. (Or about seventy-five to one hundred degrees > away from best power.) It makes sense that when you are burning > less fuel the temperatures will be lower, but when we are running > at very high power settings, we need the extra fuel to keep the > peak combustion pressure and temperatures down. > > Thus, it can truthfully be said that there are times when leaning > the engine will make the heads run hotter, but there are also times > when leaning the mixture will make the heads run cooler. > > As Always, It All depends! > > Make any sense at all? > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > Stearman N3977A > LL22 > > In a message dated 8/15/2009 1:21:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > lynnmatt(at)jps.net writes: > > > Over the last week, I've had some fun making some tests with my newly- > installed Rotec TBI-40 mixture-adjustable, carburetor-replacement > device on my Jabiru engine. I don't know whether two of these units > will work on a Rotax, so many of you might want to hit the delete key > right now. > > For the most part, I was flying it LOP (lean-of-peak), but yesterday > I made a flight and decided that I would try ROP (rich-of-peak). In > flying LOP, the articles I've read say to keep the power requirements > low, and LOP will work and you won't burn the engine down. I was > amazed that this LOP thing even works at all, let alone work as well > as I've found that it seems too....I guess I'm still a bit of a > skeptic. After all, if going lean is a bad thing, how can going even > leaner be a good thing? I won't argue whether or not it's a good or > bad thing, and there are those of you that may not be able to do any > leaning at all, as I was until I got this unit. > Three days ago, I made two trips totaling 475 miles, using LOP > settings, and yesterday I made a 310-mile trip, using ROP settings. I > had flown the 475 miles leaning out the engine until peak EGT, then > leaning more until the engine was obviously low on power, and I > contentedly flew at this setting, watching the scenery crawl by. > Yesterday I decided to actually GO somewhere, and never mind the fuel > saving, I just wanted to get there, so I decided to try ROP. > Here are the average numbers from those trips: > > LOP: 27.77 miles per gallon; 3.3 gallons per hour; 93.14 > miles per hour > ROP: 23.66 miles per gallon; 4.37 gallons per hour; 103.3 > miles per > hour > > Altitudes on all of these flight were anywhere from 3000' MSL (with a > base of 1000') to 10,000 MSL, with throttle settings from 2600 rpm to > 3050. Fuel flow as seen on the gauge, ranged from 2.5 gallons per > hour to 5.0 not including takeoffs, but including climbs. > > So you can see from these figures (admittedly a low number of > samples) that it does pay to tweak the mixture, and even if flown > LOP, the speed is not too bad. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 737.3 hrs > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Rotec TBI-40 injection > Status: flying > > > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some
Date: Aug 15, 2009
Thanks for those numbers, Bob....I'll give them a try the next time I fly...probably tomorrow. I tend to fly just to enjoy the ride, and am rarely in a hurry to get somewhere. I'm always in a hurry to leave for some place, but not necessarily in a hurry to get there. Know what I mean? : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 737.3 hrs Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying On Aug 15, 2009, at 6:41 PM, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote: > Good Afternoon Lynn, > > The only comment I would make is to be certain that you only use > the fifty rich mode when you are pulling seventy percent power or > less. Fifty rich of peak will give you the hottest cylinder > temperature that you can get. It is a mixture to be avoided at any > high power settings. I restrict a fifty rich setting to no higher > than sixty-five percent power, but I tend to be on the cautious > side. Fifty lean of peak is leaner than you need for optimum > economy. Twenty lean is just about perfect at sixty-five percent > power. Fifty lean won't hurt a thing, but you lose a little > efficiency. > > Sounds like fun though. > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > > In a message dated 8/15/2009 5:28:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > lynnmatt(at)jps.net writes: > > > Yeah, it makes sense, and I hope I'm doing it right. I lean until the > peak EGT is found, then either richen about 50 degrees (that's what > I've read) for ROP, or continue leaning until the EGT's (all four of > them in my case) also drop about 50 degrees. The CHT's also come down > in my engine, as well as the power....the engine feels like my car > does when I turn on the air conditioner...kinda sagging in power. But > I NEVER do this LOP setting when I am over about 2850 rpm (red line > 3300) or when I am stressing the engine. If I'm doing something that > would hurt the engine, I'd certainly like to be alerted to it. But I > only go lean-of-peak EGT when in a slow cruise mode. (When I > mentioned going to 3050 rpm, I was referring to going to ROP in a low > power-requirement mode.) > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 737.3 hrs > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Rotec TBI-40 injection > Status: flying > > > On Aug 15, 2009, at 4:16 PM, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Good Afternoon Lynn, > > > > Just as a quick recap of LOP versus ROP, may we specify what it is > > that we are lean of or rich of? > > > > Generally speaking, most folks like to think of rich or lean in > > relation to EGT temperature, but the thing we really want to know > > is whether we are on the rich side or the lean side of best power. > > At best power, almost all of the air that is available will be > > used. By checking the temperature with an EGT gauge, we will find > > that when we are running at "best" power, the EGT gauge will > > generally read about 60 degrees F cooler than it will at peak EGT. > > We therefore now know that peak EGT occurs on the lean side of best > > power. Another way to say that is that best power can be found > > about sixty to eighty degrees richer than Peak EGT > > > > The hottest internal combustion temperature will occur when just a > > bit lean of best power. Most of our automobile engines are designed > > to run right at best power most of the time. Our aircraft engines > > tend to be designed to run at full takeoff power for a relatively > > short time and the cooling capabilities are designed to be able to > > handle full power by adding extra fuel to the mixture which will > > slow down the rate of burn, move the point of peak cylinder > > pressure later in the combustion process and allow us to keep the > > engine temps below the redline while developing high power. > > > > So --- If we are at full or high power running rich and we make > > the mixture less rich, we are taking away some of the fuel that has > > been used to move the flame front later in the cycle and the > > cylinder temperatures will rise. However, if we continue to reduce > > the fuel flow, the internal temperature will peak at some rather > > high number. That will be very close to the best power mixture. The > > problem is that our engines are not designed to cool properly at > > that high a cylinder pressure. If we continue to make the mixture > > less rich, it will eventually get to the peak EGT. That will occur > > with an EGT that is between fifty and eighty degrees Fahrenheit > > hotter than it was at the peak combustion temperature point. If we > > now continue to lean the mixture, the EGT will drop. Less fuel > > means less fire and the cylinder temperatures and pressures will > > continue to drop. At a cruise power of sixty to seventy percent for > > most light aircraft engines, the best BSFC (Brake Specific Fuel > > Consumption) will be found with an EGT about twenty degrees F > > leaner than Peak EGT. (Or about seventy-five to one hundred degrees > > away from best power.) It makes sense that when you are burning > > less fuel the temperatures will be lower, but when we are running > > at very high power settings, we need the extra fuel to keep the > > peak combustion pressure and temperatures down. > > > > Thus, it can truthfully be said that there are times when leaning > > the engine will make the heads run hotter, but there are also times > > when leaning the mixture will make the heads run cooler. > > > > As Always, It All depends! > > > > Make any sense at all? > > > > Happy Skies, > > > > Old Bob > > Stearman N3977A > > LL22 > > > > In a message dated 8/15/2009 1:21:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > > lynnmatt(at)jps.net writes: > > > > > > Over the last week, I've had some fun making some tests with my > newly- > > installed Rotec TBI-40 mixture-adjustable, carburetor-replacement > > device on my Jabiru engine. I don't know whether two of these units > > will work on a Rotax, so many of you might want to hit the delete > key > > right now. > > > > For the most part, I was flying it LOP (lean-of-peak), but yesterday > > I made a flight and decided that I would try ROP (rich-of-peak). In > > flying LOP, the articles I've read say to keep the power > requirements > > low, and LOP will work and you won't burn the engine down. I was > > amazed that this LOP thing even works at all, let alone work as well > > as I've found that it seems too....I guess I'm still a bit of a > > skeptic. After all, if going lean is a bad thing, how can going even > > leaner be a good thing? I won't argue whether or not it's a good or > > bad thing, and there are those of you that may not be able to do any > > leaning at all, as I was until I got this unit. > > Three days ago, I made two trips totaling 475 miles, using LOP > > settings, and yesterday I made a 310-mile trip, using ROP > settings. I > > had flown the 475 miles leaning out the engine until peak EGT, then > > leaning more until the engine was obviously low on power, and I > > contentedly flew at this setting, watching the scenery crawl by. > > Yesterday I decided to actually GO somewhere, and never mind the > fuel > > saving, I just wanted to get there, so I decided to try ROP. > > Here are the average numbers from those trips: > > > > LOP: 27.77 miles per gallon; 3.3 gallons per hour; 93.14 > > miles per hour > > ROP: 23.66 miles per gallon; 4.37 gallons per hour; 103.3 > > miles per > > hour > > > > Altitudes on all of these flight were anywhere from 3000' MSL > (with a > > base of 1000') to 10,000 MSL, with throttle settings from 2600 > rpm to > > 3050. Fuel flow as seen on the gauge, ranged from 2.5 gallons per > > hour to 5.0 not including takeoffs, but including climbs. > > > > So you can see from these figures (admittedly a low number of > > samples) that it does pay to tweak the mixture, and even if flown > > LOP, the speed is not too bad. > > > > Lynn Matteson > > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 737.3 hrs > > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop > > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > > Rotec TBI-40 injection > > Status: flying > > > > > > > > > > > > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > > > ====================================================================== > =========================== Use utilities Day > ================================================ - > MATRONICS WEB FORUMS > ================================================ - List > Contribution Web Site sp; > ================================================== > > > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 15, 2009
Subject: Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some
Good Evening Lynn, I certainly do! To steal from a lister on another list: "The flight IS the reason. The destination is just an excuse!" And I really must brag. Our granddaughter received her private pilot airplane certificate today flying her Jabiru powered Legend Cub which she built from a kit. We will have a few younger aviators after all. Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 8/15/2009 7:57:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lynnmatt(at)jps.net writes: Thanks for those numbers, Bob....I'll give them a try the next time I fly...probably tomorrow. I tend to fly just to enjoy the ride, and am rarely in a hurry to get somewhere. I'm always in a hurry to leave for some place, but not necessarily in a hurry to get there. Know what I mean? : ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 16, 2009
Subject: Re: ROP versus LOP...might be off-topic for some
Good Morning Lynn, One of the very few things that the FAA has done well is the Sport Pilot thing. As long as we manage to avoid having a physical denied, most of us can transition to that mode when required. Flying is still FUN! Happy Skies, Old Bob As an aside, had she built the Cub as a "sport" category airplane, she would only be allowed to use a gross of 1320. By building it under the experimental provisions, she can use a 1600 pound gross.

January 27, 2009 - August 16, 2009

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