Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-il
October 11, 2009 - October 24, 2009
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267425#267425
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
If you like Irwin clamps, Home Depot has a 4-pack of the 6" size on sale... buy
two, get two free. These are normally $20 for 2, today they are $20 for 4.
I have a variety of these in various sizes and they are my favorite clamps. They
don't work for every situation, but are very handy for most things that need
clamping. Of the three sizes that I have, the 6" are the most useful.
I'm not sure if all Home Depot stores have these on sale or just our local store
(I think they are advertised in this weeks flier), but if you are nearby a store
and you like these, it may be worth checking out.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267463#267463
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/irwin_192.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tailwheel springs |
Just one more thought about springs. Geometry is the key and it is much ea
sier to control geometry with a pivot rather than a spring. In a car when
you turn the wheel the inner wheel must travel farther=2C or somehow make a
tighter radius. This is called scrubb angle. It is all done with geometr
y. Some designers do it by actually turning the inner wheel farther. Some
such as Ford do it by changing camber on the inner wheel. All done withou
t springs in the linkage. Controlling geometry on the Piet would be a simp
le matter with the trailing link type tw as opposed to the single leaf.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: tailwheel springs
Date: Sun=2C 11 Oct 2009 10:54:32 -0400
Wheather a straight curved or hinged setup the geometry will change when fl
exed.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tailwheel springs
Date: Sat=2C 10 Oct 2009 22:54:32 -0700
Apples and oranges. As has been noted=2C with our type of standard=2C curve
d
springs=2C the wheel moves further aft as it moves upward. The Sonex spring
is a long straight bar=2C parallel with the cables that does NOT get longer
with
weight on it.Hence=2C no need for the springs.
Clif
Sonex runs a direct linkage and uses a round spring
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
Hotmail: Trusted email with Micros7141664/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign
up now.
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_________________________________________________________________=0A
Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service.=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood |
| From: | "chase143" <chase143(at)aol.com> |
Jim,
IMHO a good place to look are boat building yards. Attached is a link to a good
list of them throughout the country. I get wood for my boat from a yard in North
Carolina, and found very nice Okoume (BS 1088), 4 x 8 sheets: 1/8" @ $35;
1/4" @ $55. When we described the Piet project, he talked our ears off then gave
us a discount off the total. If you can find some place local and prevent
shipping, you can save a bundle.
Steve
Another wood source wed site.....
http://www.glen-l.com/resources/lumber-suppliers.html
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267479#267479
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: emergency runways |
| From: | "CraigM" <cmaiman(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi There,
Well, I certainly know about the dumb ads on EmergencyRunways.com... I'm the founder
and have been trying to change the ads!
It's not true that there isn't some degree of control. You can put HTML tags in
the site code that tells Google to pay attention to this section and/or ignore
this section. And I've done that, but it still wants to put anxiety/panic
attack ads.... Grrr... Really need to figure it out soon since I expect to be
getting a lot more traffic in the near future - I'm in the process of forming
partnerships with two of the top portable aviation GPS companies.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267499#267499
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: emergency runways |
Why not just ax the ads?
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
On Oct 11, 2009, at 2:40 PM, "CraigM" wrote:
>
> Hi There,
>
> Well, I certainly know about the dumb ads on
> EmergencyRunways.com... I'm the founder and have been trying to
> change the ads!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
It's been awful quiet the last day or so. Everyone must be building or flyi
ng. Me=2C I'm blowing leaves. I blow leaves every day from now until the f
irst week of Nov.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I think everyone else is doing similar stuff. Mowing for the last time, raking/blowing
leaves, winterizing their boat/pool, putting fresh sand in the horseshoe
pits and GETTING READY FOR THE RED RIVER RIVALRY NEXT SATURDAY! Woooo Hooo.
Go Texas!
Ha ha! Yeah, one of the few games I get excited about, but it is officially beer
and BBQ time... then back to my wings.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267607#267607
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/longhorns_logo1_211.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing at Airports |
with Gulfstreams...]
Mike,
Is that leather you've got glued on the top of your turtledeck?
I've been fretting a little about the cracks I'm seeing in the paint
over the stringers on La Tortuga and have been wondering what to do
about them:
http://5n429glenoak.homelinux.net/gallery/N8031/img_2585
I was thinking about filling them with some sort of latex filler then
re-paint the area, but now that I see what you've done, I think I like
this idea, better.
Thanks,
Dan
Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote:
> That's a great story Don about landing in the grass at Auburn, IN.
>
> After I landed at Goshen, IN in 2005 a big business jet taxied up (I don't
> recall the type) and as I was getting fuel only two pilots came out of
> the jet and they came right over to the Pietenpol and were asking all kinds
> of questions. Turns out they were there to pickup the owners of the Indianapolis
> Colts to take them home from some B&B they were staying at near Goshen.
>
> Here I wanted to go see the jet and these two corporate pilots wanted to
> see the Piet !
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> PS-- here's the Piet at Romeoville, IL Lewis U. Airport when I got
> weathered in enroute to Brodhead Friday night. That's a Falcon jet of
> some sort in the background.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | website to journal Piet build |
| From: | Don Rucker <donrucker.ctg(at)gmail.com> |
All,
As some of you know my 14 year old son and I are building a Piet (his
project). We created a website for the project. The site includes a blog
that he will use as a journal to post each step of the build. If you would
like to check it out the URL is: www.firstwings.net We will expand the site
to included a photo album as time goes on.
Don
12 ribs complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Seeking New builder from Georgia |
I am seeking a guy from this list who was interested in building a wide bod
y pietenpol. I believe he was from Georgia. Please contact me at my email a
ddress as I have information for you!
-
Ken
-
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | RE: Mike Cuy's turtledeck covering |
Hi Dan,
Actually that is some kind of fabric backed vinyl that appears leather-like.
I had my cockpit covers sewn out of the same
material from a local Mom and Pop upholstery shop.
In a rush to finish my plane I omitted finishing tapes over each turtledeck stringer
and with entry and exit my butt was pressing
and flexing the fabric over the strings which eventually caused paint cracking
and a hole in the fabric. Rather than recover
and paint that whole top area I opted to play with white poster board paper mock
ups of various shapes and curves for that
patch. Once I settled on the size and shape in paper I simply transferred that
pattern to a leftover roll of the cockpit cover
material.
I used (not the spray on stuff) contact cement on both surfaces (in a small can
from Home Depot/ Lowe's) using a brush then
let the surfaces dry to a tack then with help from friends at the airport carefully
laid the vinyl down and pressed it to secure.
I left the front end overhang the hatbox area by about an inch and then trimmed
with an Xacto knife to make it look like I really
knew what I was doing:)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I've been sitting in a tree, watching the snow fall and quietly waiting
for a deer to walk by. No such luck yet.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Dever
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 12:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Quiet
It's been awful quiet the last day or so. Everyone must be building or
flying. Me, I'm blowing leaves. I blow leaves every day from now until
the first week of Nov.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SP target='_new'>Sign up now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: website to journal Piet build |
Peyton and Don
Great to hear that you are off to a fine start on your project. You
neglected to say what part of the country you are in. This list can be
a great resource for you. Please keep us all updated. I will be
checking your site on a regular basis.
Good luck
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Rucker
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 1:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: website to journal Piet build
All,
As some of you know my 14 year old son and I are building a Piet (his
project). We created a website for the project. The site includes a blog
that he will use as a journal to post each step of the build. If you
would like to check it out the URL is: www.firstwings.net We will expand
the site to included a photo album as time goes on.
Don
12 ribs complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: website to journal Piet build |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
SGF2aW5nIGEgYnVpbGQgYnVkZHkgdGhhdCBoYXBwZW5zIHRvIGJlIHlvdXIgc29uIGJyaW5ncyB3
aXRoIGl0IGdvb2QgdGltZXMsIGdyZWF0IG1lbW9yaWVzIGFuZCBhIGRlZXBlciBhbmQgcmljaGVy
IHJlbGF0aW9uc2hpcCBmb3IgYm90aCB0byBzaGFyZSBmb3IgeWVhcnMgdG8gY29tZS4gDQoNCkpv
aG4NCg0KDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgVmVyaXpvbiBXaXJlbGVzcyBCbGFja0JlcnJ5DQoNCi0tLS0t
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ZSB0byBqb3VybmFsIFBpZXQgYnVpbGQNCg0KUGV5dG9uIGFuZCBEb24NCkdyZWF0IHRvIGhlYXIg
dGhhdCB5b3UgYXJlIG9mZiB0byBhIGZpbmUgc3RhcnQgb24geW91ciBwcm9qZWN0LiAgWW91IG5l
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IGxpc3QgY2FuIGJlIGEgZ3JlYXQgcmVzb3VyY2UgZm9yIHlvdS4gICBQbGVhc2Uga2VlcCB1cyBh
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bSANCiAgU2VudDogTW9uZGF5LCBPY3RvYmVyIDEyLCAyMDA5IDE6MjEgUE0NCiAgU3ViamVjdDog
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DQoNCg0KICBBcyBzb21lIG9mIHlvdSBrbm93IG15IDE0IHllYXIgb2xkIHNvbiBhbmQgSSBhcmUg
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aGUgcHJvamVjdC4gVGhlIHNpdGUgaW5jbHVkZXMgYSBibG9nIHRoYXQgaGUgd2lsbCB1c2UgYXMg
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a2UgdG8gY2hlY2sgaXQgb3V0IHRoZSBVUkwgaXM6IHd3dy5maXJzdHdpbmdzLm5ldCBXZSB3aWxs
IGV4cGFuZCB0aGUgc2l0ZSB0byBpbmNsdWRlZCBhIHBob3RvIGFsYnVtIGFzIHRpbWUgZ29lcyBv
bi4gDQoNCg0KICBEb24NCg0KDQogIDEyIHJpYnMgY29tcGxldGUNCg0KDQoNCg=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Re: website to journal Piet build |
Nice start Don, if you like link to mine www.textors.com. Don't forget
chris tracts www.westcoastpiet.com
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 12, 2009, at 1:21 PM, Don Rucker wrote:
> All,
>
> As some of you know my 14 year old son and I are building a Piet
> (his project). We created a website for the project. The site
> includes a blog that he will use as a journal to post each step of
> the build. If you would like to check it out the URL is: www.firstwings.net
> We will expand the site to included a photo album as time goes on.
>
> Don
>
> 12 ribs complete
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: website to journal Piet build |
Don,
I hope you don't mind, but I'd like to add a photo and link to your
site on mine. If you have a photo of your son working on a rib, I'd
live to use it. I can't add it right away, but it could be up in a
week or two.
Please contact me off-list for more details.
Thanks,
Wayne Bressler Jr.
wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
On Oct 12, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Don Rucker wrote:
> All,
>
> As some of you know my 14 year old son and I are building a Piet
> (his project). We created a website for the project. The site
> includes a blog that he will use as a journal to post each step of
> the build. If you would like to check it out the URL is: www.firstwings.net
> We will expand the site to included a photo album as time goes on.
>
> Don
>
> 12 ribs complete
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: website to journal Piet build |
| From: | "swamppilot" <donrucker.ctg(at)gmail.com> |
We live in Northwest Louisiana. The humidity is so high (100%) we had to purchase
a dehumidifier to help dry the wood in the wet jig. - Don
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267664#267664
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello Fellers,
I was glad to- get in an hour of flying on sunday evening after work, but
it was chilly.- It was about 50-55 degrees or so, and not much wind so I
had to go.- I flew over to say hi to a friend of mine, and my low pass b
rought him and his wife and the kids out from the dinner table-to wave an
d wait for a second pass.- He lives out in farm country away from pretty
much any thing but corn and bean fields, so there is not to much to run int
o except the occasional stray cell tower.- After the 20 mile flight over
my face was cold and numb, so I figured I would go home and shoot a few lan
dings.- On the way home I saw a bunch of farmers cutting off their beans,
and a couple of hot air balloons off in the distance.-I was-flying alo
ng at 500 ft, watching the shadows grow longer and seeing the trees change
color in the sinking sun, I completly forgot about my face being cold.- A
fter my 1st wheel landing touch and go, I flew out made a 180 and landed lo
ng
the oppisite direction to cut down on my taxi back to my hanger.- I had
planned on making that the last landing, but the sky was so calm and clear
that I had to turn around and go around once more, before the daylight was
completly gone.- I don't get to fly as much as I did last year, before I
was a father, but I can't wait untill he is old enough to fly around with m
e and see the beauty of a cool fall afternoon,-on the loud, windy magic c
arpet that is the Pietenpol.
-
Shad=0A=0A__________________________________________________=0ADo You Yahoo
p://mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
Great story Shad. Cheers,
Great story Shad. Cheers, Gardiner
________________________________
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 8:57:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fall flying
Hello Fellers,
I was glad to get in an hour of flying on sunday evening after work, but it was
chilly. It was about 50-55 degrees or so, and not much wind so I had to go.
I flew over to say hi to a friend of mine, and my low pass brought him and his
wife and the kids out from the dinner table to wave and wait for a second pass.
He lives out in farm country away from pretty much any thing but corn and
bean fields, so there is not to much to run into except the occasional stray
cell tower. After the 20 mile flight over my face was cold and numb, so I figured
I would go home and shoot a few landings. On the way home I saw a bunch
of farmers cutting off their beans, and a couple of hot air balloons off in the
distance. I was flying along at 500 ft, watching the shadows grow longer and
seeing the trees change color in the sinking sun, I completly forgot about my
face being cold. After my 1st wheel landing touch and go, I flew out made a
180 and landed long the
oppisite direction to cut down on my taxi back to my hanger. I had planned on
making that the last landing, but the sky was so calm and clear that I had to
turn around and go around once more, before the daylight was completly gone.
I don't get to fly as much as I did last year, before I was a father, but I can't
wait untill he is old enough to fly around with me and see the beauty of
a cool fall afternoon, on the loud, windy magic carpet that is the Pietenpol.
Shad
______________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Shad;
You have captured it. Take what you got and put it in a
bottle, man! Save it for your youngster, because there
aren't many kids who will get to experience what you have
in store for your youngster. It's something that is
getting scarcer and scarcer.
Put those kids in your cockpits, Piet pilots and builders.
The dreams those kids will have, and the memories they
stash away, will be priceless. It doesn't matter to them if
the airplane is flying or finished or even if it has wings-
put them in the seat, let them have the stick, and their
imaginations will do the rest. There is magic in the smell
of wood, glue, fabric, avgas, an old leather flying helmet,
or any of the other things in our shops or cockpits.
They sure won't find it in the mall.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
Oscars cool
On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> Shad;
>
> You have captured it. Take what you got and put it in a
> bottle, man! Save it for your youngster, because there
> aren't many kids who will get to experience what you have
> in store for your youngster. It's something that is
> getting scarcer and scarcer.
>
> Put those kids in your cockpits, Piet pilots and builders.
> The dreams those kids will have, and the memories they
> stash away, will be priceless. It doesn't matter to them if
> the airplane is flying or finished or even if it has wings-
> put them in the seat, let them have the stick, and their
> imaginations will do the rest. There is magic in the smell
> of wood, glue, fabric, avgas, an old leather flying helmet,
> or any of the other things in our shops or cockpits.
>
> They sure won't find it in the mall.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | David Jay Perry Airport Open House Fly-In and Lunch, Saturday |
October 31st, 2009, 11:00AM, Goldsby, OK
For you local (OK/TX/KS) guys. I'd love to see some Piets here!
Steve
David Jay Perry Airport Open House and Lunch Fly-In
Identifier: 1K4
Saturday October 31st, 2009 - 11:00AM
Goldsby, OK
Come get some cheap avgas and see our newly renovated Pilot
Lounge, complete with new restroom, kitchen, flight planning room with
computer and offices. We want to show off our new facility and make it
a new destination for Oklahoma pilots. The new lounge will remain
stocked with snacks and cold drinks, comfortable furniture and it is
available 24hrs a day to pilots.
Burgers and hot dogs will be served around 11:30...everyone is
welcome, drive-in or fly-in. Feel free to spread the word, everyone is
welcome.
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flyin/
http://www.airnav.com/airport/1K4
For more information call Steve Ruse at 405-209-9010 or e-mail
steve(at)wotelectronics.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seeking New builder from Georgia |
ok your talkin about georgia usa or rusian contry
--- On Mon, 10/12/09, KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP wrote:
From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seeking New builder from Georgia
Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 12:14 PM
I am seeking a guy from this list who was interested in building a wide bod
y pietenpol. I believe he was from Georgia. Please contact me at my email a
ddress as I have information for you!=0A-=0AKen=0A-=0Akmheidecpo@yahoo.
com=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: website to journal Piet build |
The son of the builder of my plane got hold of me.Just for the hell of it,
he googled his fathers name and it came up in an RAA magazine here in Canad
a.He had never seen the completed aircraft and wanted to see it flying.He l
ooked at the aircraft and after peeking inside the fusalage he said all the
smell brought back memories of when he was a boy crawling through the fusy
running the cables and installing the pullies.After he seen it fly and too
k all the pictures he wanted, he said it completed a life long dream to see
her completed and flying.She was started way back in 77 and completed in 2
005 and she flys like a dream.SNOOP DOG GN-1 Aircamper C-IOVC started by Ge
orge Uranick of Perth Ontario Canada,sold to Robert Greyham of Manotick Ont
ario and then sold to me.Snoop dog with Snoopy painted on the tail- looki
ng like Sherlock Homes with that hat and magnifying glass because George wa
s an Ontario Provincial Policeman attached to the Snoop division-
before he passed away.The work those men did and the ones that helped me c
omplete it are all mentioned in the RAA magazine.Guys like George Uranick,R
obert Greyham,Tom Bennate and Bob Moorhead. Crafts men, that if they had no
t been there for me, I doubt if Snoop would be flying today.These guys real
ly know their stuff.I'm just a flyboy myself.My wife told me after seeing a
bird house I'd made, said they won't go in that, and they didn't.That's ho
w good I am at building anything.--=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________
___________=0AFrom: "amsafetyc(at)aol.com" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>=0ATo: Pietenpol
builders Board =0ASent: Mon, October 12, 200
9 7:26:48 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: website to journal Piet build
=0A=0AHaving a build buddy that happens to be your son brings with it good
times, great memories and a deeper and richer relationship for both to shar
e for years to come. =0A=0AJohn=0A=0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Lis
t=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref
="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c=0A=0A
-========================
==================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TulsaFlyer" <gbloud1(at)netzero.net> |
Hey Mark,
Your logo was kinda' messed up so I fixed it for you. :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267723#267723
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/untitled_193.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Here's a shot of our oldest grandson Brandon sitting
in 41CC. Tell me he's not enjoying himself:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/brandon_003.jpg
The only problem was, he thought it was a jet, or at
least that's what it sounded like when he "flew" the
airplane.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Haaaa ha ha! Well see about that.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267755#267755
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vi Kapler's Piets |
| From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
Vi says the dihedral is one inch. The Pietenpol Aircamper located at the Pioneer
Museum in Oshkosh has two inches of dihedral. Vi stated that Bernard thought
that was too much. It also has only 1/4 inch washout instead of 3/8 that Vi
used to rig his wing.
DW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267763#267763
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike" <bike.mike(at)comcast.net> |
Doggone it Oscar, I'm already motivated. Stop throwing kerosene on the
fire.
(My oldest grandson can't see over the cockpit coaming yet so I have a
little breathing space.)
Mike Hardaway
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:04 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fall flying
-->
Here's a shot of our oldest grandson Brandon sitting in 41CC. Tell me he's
not enjoying himself:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/brandon_003.jpg
The only problem was, he thought it was a jet, or at least that's what it
sounded like when he "flew" the airplane.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Mike wrote:
>My oldest grandson can't see over the cockpit coaming yet
>so I have a little breathing space.
All taildragger pilots can tell you that you don't need to
be able to see over the cockpit coaming, and the Ford Piet
guys don't get to see straight ahead any of the time due to
the radiator anyway.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Vi Kapler's Piets |
dwilson wrote-
>It also has only 1/4 inch washout instead of 3/8 that
>Vi used to rig his wing.
Shoot... my Piet building ruler doesn't even have fractions
that small, my eyes can't see 'em even if they were there,
and I'll bet the plane doesn't know the difference ;o)
Beautiful, classic Air Campers. And I do like the look
with minimal dihedral even though 41CC has about 3" of it.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
It's all them fancy gauges that fooled him, Oscar. Whut are they fer?
>
>
>Here's a shot of our oldest grandson Brandon sitting
>in 41CC. Tell me he's not enjoying himself:
>
>http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/brandon_003.jpg
>
>The only problem was, he thought it was a jet, or at
>least that's what it sounded like when he "flew" the
>airplane.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
Heh - water injection system. Sounds like something the passenger
does on any number of my landings... <:-|
>
>
>Jeff asked-
>
>>It's all them fancy gauges that fooled him, Oscar.
>>Whut are they fer?
>
>Well, I got me a mock-meter on the far left. It
>tells me how close I'm flyin' to the speed of sound.
>Then next to it I got me an exhaust gas analyzer to
>tell me if the water injection system needs to be
>backed off or if it's set just right.
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Visibility |
"Forward visibility is a luxury, not a right.". -me
I'm sure you've all seen examples of this on the past, but a few
examples come immediately to mind:
Laird Super Solution
Spirit of St Louis
Corben Super Ace
Most Taildraggers in the 3-point attitude.
Not that I'm suggesting it's a good idea (which it isn't), or even
that I like the idea (which I don't), but has anyone ever put a
nosewheel on a Piet? I know they've done if on the Champ, the folks
who sell the Baby Ace have disfigured their airframe in this manner,
and even aviation legend Steve Wittman put a nose gear on a Tailwind,
but I don't personally know of anyone who has done this to an Aircamper.
Gross...
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
On Oct 13, 2009, at 2:15 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
> >
>
>
> Mike wrote:
>
>> My oldest grandson can't see over the cockpit coaming yet
>> so I have a little breathing space.
>
> All taildragger pilots can tell you that you don't need to
> be able to see over the cockpit coaming, and the Ford Piet
> guys don't get to see straight ahead any of the time due to
> the radiator anyway.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New to the list. |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
Hello,
I am new to this list but looking over the archives I found lots of interesting
stuff and I hope this will be a place to get questions answered or at least experienced
opinions. Just a little about myself as a means of introduction.
I am an architect by trade and still working as a partial retirement. I have
held a private license since 1967 and along the way got my instrument and a commercial
ticket (which I never used). I currently have about 1700 hours in lots
of different airplanes, all single engine and including about 100 hrs in tail
wheel . And in the last 20 years have flown just enough to be able to pass
my BFR.
I am located in upstate NY in the Adirondack Park. I am building or finishing
someone else's project, a GN-1 Aircamper. Project is 75% done with 75% to go.
The project started in Canada and then ended up in Iowa. I have no documentation
from the original builders who did all the wood work. As I understand it
the plane was part of an estate sale and then passed to someone else in payment
of a debt. I bought it from a person that had done the conversion of a corvair
engine and some covering and that documentation wasn't too bad. Good enough
to let me know that I need to do some things over.
It has been interesting taking someone else's work and trying to decide if it is
OK. When I first started it was overwhelming. I am making headway now, but
with each thing I do I find something else that was done before but does not
quit work right based on the way I want things to end up. The GN-1 was heavy
and this one is not exception.
Wings are done and one is covered. Tail surfaces are done and covered but I have
had to do some remodeling to make new attachment fittings work. I am working
toward covering the fuselage but to do that I have needed to do preliminary rigging
and found some guide blocks mis-located.
Because these birds tend to be tail heavy I am going to build a Piet style skid
but with a tail wheel and try to reduce weight at the tail. A friend gave me
a used Scott tail wheel but it is way too heavy in my opinion especially hanging
back another 12 " beyond the end of the Fues. Building the tail wheel assembly
will put the fuselage covering on hold for a while as I want the mounting
hardware in place before covering. Well you get the picture.
Apparently Grega is no longer supporting his plans (or his father's plans) so
information on the GN-1 is scarce. I hope there are some GN-1 builders that frequent
this list that will be willing to share there building experiences.
Sorry for being so wordy here, but I thought I would give a little background.
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267805#267805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | New to the list. |
Welcome, Jon!! You're at the right place. Are you sure you're 75%, and not
51%?
Don't forget to consider moving the engine forward, maybe 2"? should help
with that heavy tail.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of coxwelljon
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the list.
Hello,
I am new to this list but looking over the archives I found lots of
interesting stuff and I hope this will be a place to get questions answered
or at least experienced opinions. Just a little about myself as a means of
introduction. I am an architect by trade and still working as a partial
retirement. I have held a private license since 1967 and along the way got
my instrument and a commercial ticket (which I never used). I currently
have about 1700 hours in lots of different airplanes, all single engine and
including about 100 hrs in tail wheel . And in the last 20 years have flown
just enough to be able to pass my BFR.
I am located in upstate NY in the Adirondack Park. I am building or
finishing someone else's project, a GN-1 Aircamper. Project is 75% done
with 75% to go. The project started in Canada and then ended up in Iowa. I
have no documentation from the original builders who did all the wood work.
As I understand it the plane was part of an estate sale and then passed to
someone else in payment of a debt. I bought it from a person that had done
the conversion of a corvair engine and some covering and that documentation
wasn't too bad. Good enough to let me know that I need to do some things
over.
It has been interesting taking someone else's work and trying to decide if
it is OK. When I first started it was overwhelming. I am making headway
now, but with each thing I do I find something else that was done before but
does not quit work right based on the way I want things to end up. The GN-1
was heavy and this one is not exception.
Wings are done and one is covered. Tail surfaces are done and covered but I
have had to do some remodeling to make new attachment fittings work. I am
working toward covering the fuselage but to do that I have needed to do
preliminary rigging and found some guide blocks mis-located.
Because these birds tend to be tail heavy I am going to build a Piet style
skid but with a tail wheel and try to reduce weight at the tail. A friend
gave me a used Scott tail wheel but it is way too heavy in my opinion
especially hanging back another 12 " beyond the end of the Fues. Building
the tail wheel assembly will put the fuselage covering on hold for a while
as I want the mounting hardware in place before covering. Well you get the
picture.
Apparently Grega is no longer supporting his plans (or his father's plans)
so information on the GN-1 is scarce. I hope there are some GN-1 builders
that frequent this list that will be willing to share there building
experiences.
Sorry for being so wordy here, but I thought I would give a little
background.
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267805#267805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New to the list. |
I REALLY agree with Gary. If you are taking over a project, you will have
to review everything that has been done. In looking at work YOU WILL
complete more than 51% of the construction.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:46 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New to the list.
>
> Welcome, Jon!! You're at the right place. Are you sure you're 75%, and not
> 51%?
>
> Don't forget to consider moving the engine forward, maybe 2"? should help
> with that heavy tail.
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (15 ribs down.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of coxwelljon
> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:36 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the list.
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I am new to this list but looking over the archives I found lots of
> interesting stuff and I hope this will be a place to get questions
> answered
> or at least experienced opinions. Just a little about myself as a means
> of
> introduction. I am an architect by trade and still working as a partial
> retirement. I have held a private license since 1967 and along the way
> got
> my instrument and a commercial ticket (which I never used). I currently
> have about 1700 hours in lots of different airplanes, all single engine
> and
> including about 100 hrs in tail wheel . And in the last 20 years have
> flown
> just enough to be able to pass my BFR.
>
> I am located in upstate NY in the Adirondack Park. I am building or
> finishing someone else's project, a GN-1 Aircamper. Project is 75% done
> with 75% to go. The project started in Canada and then ended up in Iowa.
> I
> have no documentation from the original builders who did all the wood
> work.
> As I understand it the plane was part of an estate sale and then passed to
> someone else in payment of a debt. I bought it from a person that had
> done
> the conversion of a corvair engine and some covering and that
> documentation
> wasn't too bad. Good enough to let me know that I need to do some things
> over.
>
> It has been interesting taking someone else's work and trying to decide if
> it is OK. When I first started it was overwhelming. I am making headway
> now, but with each thing I do I find something else that was done before
> but
> does not quit work right based on the way I want things to end up. The
> GN-1
> was heavy and this one is not exception.
>
> Wings are done and one is covered. Tail surfaces are done and covered but
> I
> have had to do some remodeling to make new attachment fittings work. I am
> working toward covering the fuselage but to do that I have needed to do
> preliminary rigging and found some guide blocks mis-located.
>
> Because these birds tend to be tail heavy I am going to build a Piet style
> skid but with a tail wheel and try to reduce weight at the tail. A friend
> gave me a used Scott tail wheel but it is way too heavy in my opinion
> especially hanging back another 12 " beyond the end of the Fues. Building
> the tail wheel assembly will put the fuselage covering on hold for a while
> as I want the mounting hardware in place before covering. Well you get
> the
> picture.
>
> Apparently Grega is no longer supporting his plans (or his father's
> plans)
> so information on the GN-1 is scarce. I hope there are some GN-1 builders
> that frequent this list that will be willing to share there building
> experiences.
>
> Sorry for being so wordy here, but I thought I would give a little
> background.
>
> --------
> Jon Coxwell
> Recycle and preserve the planet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267805#267805
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New to the list. |
Jon,
You have your work cut out. Your piloting and architecture skills will serve you
well.
It sounds like you have been going it alone, which raises some immediate questions:
Do you have at least some Piet and GN-1 prints?
Do you have other Piets and builders nearby as resources?
You say "heavy"-- how so, have you weighed what you have, and/or estimated the
rest?
Have you made an estimate of the CG, using a spreadsheet?
Have you read the Piet archives on weight and balance, weight, and CG?
Is your own weight a negative factor (like mine), or are you OK there (e.g., <200#)?
Have you looked at some of the Piet coil spring tailwheel designs?
Answers to these questions will let some of us here help you solve your problems.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: coxwelljon <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
>Sent: Oct 13, 2009 5:35 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the list.
>
>
>Hello,
>
>I am new to this list but looking over the archives I found lots of interesting
stuff and I hope this will be a place to get questions answered or at least
experienced opinions. Just a little about myself as a means of introduction.
I am an architect by trade and still working as a partial retirement. I have
held a private license since 1967 and along the way got my instrument and a commercial
ticket (which I never used). I currently have about 1700 hours in lots
of different airplanes, all single engine and including about 100 hrs in tail
wheel . And in the last 20 years have flown just enough to be able to pass
my BFR.
>
>I am located in upstate NY in the Adirondack Park. I am building or finishing
someone else's project, a GN-1 Aircamper. Project is 75% done with 75% to go.
The project started in Canada and then ended up in Iowa. I have no documentation
from the original builders who did all the wood work. As I understand
it the plane was part of an estate sale and then passed to someone else in payment
of a debt. I bought it from a person that had done the conversion of a corvair
engine and some covering and that documentation wasn't too bad. Good enough
to let me know that I need to do some things over.
>
>It has been interesting taking someone else's work and trying to decide if it
is OK. When I first started it was overwhelming. I am making headway now, but
with each thing I do I find something else that was done before but does not
quit work right based on the way I want things to end up. The GN-1 was heavy
and this one is not exception.
>
>Wings are done and one is covered. Tail surfaces are done and covered but I have
had to do some remodeling to make new attachment fittings work. I am working
toward covering the fuselage but to do that I have needed to do preliminary
rigging and found some guide blocks mis-located.
>
>Because these birds tend to be tail heavy I am going to build a Piet style skid
but with a tail wheel and try to reduce weight at the tail. A friend gave me
a used Scott tail wheel but it is way too heavy in my opinion especially hanging
back another 12 " beyond the end of the Fues. Building the tail wheel assembly
will put the fuselage covering on hold for a while as I want the mounting
hardware in place before covering. Well you get the picture.
>
>Apparently Grega is no longer supporting his plans (or his father's plans) so
information on the GN-1 is scarce. I hope there are some GN-1 builders that
frequent this list that will be willing to share there building experiences.
>
>Sorry for being so wordy here, but I thought I would give a little background.
>
>--------
>Jon Coxwell
>Recycle and preserve the planet
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267805#267805
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New to the list. |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
Welcome, Jon!! You're at the right place. Are you sure you're 75%, and not
51%?
I REALLY agree with Gary. If you are taking over a project, you will have
to review everything that has been done. In looking at work YOU WILL
complete more than 51% of the construction.
Gary & Dick,
I have discussed this quite a bit with my local EAA and with our local DAR. All
have encouraged me to really document what I am doing. I believe that with
all I am having to redo I will have no problem being designated as the builder.
In fact I have gone through the process with FAA and I am now listed on the
registration as the builder. This airplane already had an N-number even though
it had never flown or been fully assembled. It took some doing to get the
previous builder removed but I got that acomplished. As for the 51% rule, a fellow
EAA sent me an exerpt from some FAA documentation and you can use the previous
builder as well as your own work for compliance with the 51% rule.
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267822#267822
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New to the list. |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
Tim thanks for your interest, You guys are asking the right questions.
Do you have at least some Piet and GN-1 prints?
Yes, both
Do you have other Piets and builders nearby as resources?
A former Piet builder, but he is a purist and is not enamored by by the GN-1.
He is some help though if I ask the right questions. I did go to Brodhead this
summer and joined the Brodhead Assoc. and get their newsletter.
You say "heavy"-- how so, have you weighed what you have, and/or estimated the
rest?
I have done this and it looks like i will be within gross but close.
Have you made an estimate of the CG, using a spreadsheet?
No, I am going to do a careful weighing when I get the fuselage covered and then
do some calculations. The airplane came with a motor mount for the corvair.
The diagonal tube is going the wrong way for the way the engine turns so I will
have to redo that. That will be the time to change the engine location if
I need to.
Is your own weight a negative factor (like mine), or are you OK there (e.g.,
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267825#267825
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: website to journal Piet build |
| From: | "swamppilot" <donrucker.ctg(at)gmail.com> |
Many thanks to all for the nice comments. We will keep our website up to date and
hope to meet all of you at Broadhead. Thanks in advance for the many answers
to questions we will have along the way.
Thanks,
Don & Peyton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267827#267827
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: website to journal Piet build |
| From: | "swamppilot" <donrucker.ctg(at)gmail.com> |
Many thanks to all for the nice comments. We will keep our website up to date and
hope to meet all of you at Broadhead. Thanks in advance for the many answers
to questions we will have along the way.
Thanks,
Don & Peyton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267828#267828
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | any GN-1 builders |
Hi I know this is a piet list but are there any GN-1 (wood) builders or
owners here. I just purchased a GN-1 that was attacked by a tree and am
starting rebuild. When finished I'll be flying it to Piet flyins.
Bryan Green
Elgin SC
----- Original Message -----
From: "TulsaFlyer" <gbloud1(at)netzero.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 8:58 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Quiet
>
> Hey Mark,
>
> Your logo was kinda' messed up so I fixed it for you. :D
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267723#267723
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/untitled_193.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New to the list. |
Hi Jon saw your post. I'm rebuilding a GN-1 and putting a corvair on it.
Maybe we can share info. E-mail me off list and I'll give you a call this
weekend.
Bryan Green
Elgin SC
----- Original Message -----
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 5:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the list.
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I am new to this list but looking over the archives I found lots of
> interesting stuff and I hope this will be a place to get questions
> answered or at least experienced opinions. Just a little about myself as
> a means of introduction. I am an architect by trade and still working as
> a partial retirement. I have held a private license since 1967 and along
> the way got my instrument and a commercial ticket (which I never used). I
> currently have about 1700 hours in lots of different airplanes, all single
> engine and including about 100 hrs in tail wheel . And in the last 20
> years have flown just enough to be able to pass my BFR.
>
> I am located in upstate NY in the Adirondack Park. I am building or
> finishing someone else's project, a GN-1 Aircamper. Project is 75% done
> with 75% to go. The project started in Canada and then ended up in Iowa.
> I have no documentation from the original builders who did all the wood
> work. As I understand it the plane was part of an estate sale and then
> passed to someone else in payment of a debt. I bought it from a person
> that had done the conversion of a corvair engine and some covering and
> that documentation wasn't too bad. Good enough to let me know that I need
> to do some things over.
>
> It has been interesting taking someone else's work and trying to decide if
> it is OK. When I first started it was overwhelming. I am making headway
> now, but with each thing I do I find something else that was done before
> but does not quit work right based on the way I want things to end up.
> The GN-1 was heavy and this one is not exception.
>
> Wings are done and one is covered. Tail surfaces are done and covered but
> I have had to do some remodeling to make new attachment fittings work. I
> am working toward covering the fuselage but to do that I have needed to do
> preliminary rigging and found some guide blocks mis-located.
>
> Because these birds tend to be tail heavy I am going to build a Piet style
> skid but with a tail wheel and try to reduce weight at the tail. A friend
> gave me a used Scott tail wheel but it is way too heavy in my opinion
> especially hanging back another 12 " beyond the end of the Fues. Building
> the tail wheel assembly will put the fuselage covering on hold for a while
> as I want the mounting hardware in place before covering. Well you get
> the picture.
>
> Apparently Grega is no longer supporting his plans (or his father's
> plans) so information on the GN-1 is scarce. I hope there are some GN-1
> builders that frequent this list that will be willing to share there
> building experiences.
>
> Sorry for being so wordy here, but I thought I would give a little
> background.
>
> --------
> Jon Coxwell
> Recycle and preserve the planet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267805#267805
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: website to journal Piet build |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
[quote="swamppilot"]All,
As some of you know my 14 year old son and I are building a Piet (his project). We created a website for the project. The site includes a blog that he will use as a journal to post each step of the build. If you would like to check it out the URL is: www.firstwings.net (http://www.firstwings.net) We will expand the site to included a photo album as time goes on.
Don
12 ribs complete
> [b]
Don & Peyton,
Nice website. Good luck, I look forward to following your progress.
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267839#267839
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: any GN-1 builders |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
Hi Bryan,
See my post "new to the list" I am about 1 year into finishing someone else's
project. My GN-1 has never flown. I purchased it several years ago and I am
now working on it in earnest.
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267840#267840
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net> |
| Subject: | Re: any GN-1 builders |
Bryan..
I'm starting a GN-1 from plans here in New Hampshire.
Al Lyscars
----- Original Message -----
From: "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: any GN-1 builders
>
> Hi I know this is a piet list but are there any GN-1 (wood) builders or
> owners here. I just purchased a GN-1 that was attacked by a tree and am
> starting rebuild. When finished I'll be flying it to Piet flyins.
> Bryan Green
> Elgin SC
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "TulsaFlyer" <gbloud1(at)netzero.net>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 8:58 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Quiet
>
>
>>
>> Hey Mark,
>>
>> Your logo was kinda' messed up so I fixed it for you. :D
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267723#267723
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/untitled_193.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Jon; what the jokers were baiting you into was the question
about your own personal "gross weight". Some pilots tip
the scales at a bit more than the FAA "standard weight" of
170 lbs. and they tend to pick on the ones who don't quite
come up to snuff. I presently weigh just a pound or two over
150 myself, so they would say I don't measure up to what the
FAA considers to be a "standard pilot".
For those building a Grega GN-1 Aircamper, don't feel a bit
put off by this being formally a discussion group for the
Pietenpol Air Camper. I submitted a detailed response to
Doc Mosher regarding the nuanced differences between Mr.
Pietenpol's original Air Camper design and Mr. Grega's
follow-on GN-1 Aircamper redesign/revision/improvement, but I
respect both men and their designs and believe them to be
worthy compatriots in the challenge to see who can fly lowest
and slowest and provide pilots with the most fun, at the lowest
cost, with the simplest construction, and to give the most
consternation to the tin-and-rivet crowd. I doubt that you
will find any Piet pilot on this list who would not share a beer
with a GN-1 pilot, but there are a few of them (mostly over
170 lbs.) who will throw down a gauntlet and challenge you to
a spot landing contest or something when they find out you fly
a GN-1. Like as not, they will also 'harumph' loudly when you
step into the bar.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: any GN-1 builders |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
alyscars(at)myfairpoint.n wrote:
> Bryan..
>
> I'm starting a GN-1 from plans here in New Hampshire.
>
> Al Lyscars
>
> ---
Al, we are not too far apart. I live in Remsen, NY just N of Utica.
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267855#267855
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New to the list |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
Thanks for the kind words. 200 is a good and accurate number but I am trying for
20 under that just to extend longevity. Not only do I want to complete the
GN-1, but I want to be healthy enough to fly it. At this age one has to think
about these things.
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267856#267856
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Forward Visibility |
There is a rumour of same. As the story goes, someone
had such a light engine and extra long nose( no, not the pilot)
that he couldn't overcome takeoff prop forces, His
solution was to level the plane.
Clif
has anyone ever put a
> nosewheel on a Piet? I know they've done if on the Champ, > Wayne
> Bressler Jr.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vi Kapler's Piets |
Thanks for the info Dan. Am I correct that it has not flown? Please keep
us up to date.
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
Vi says the dihedral is one inch. The Pietenpol Aircamper located at the
Pioneer Museum in Oshkosh has two inches of dihedral. Vi stated that
Bernard thought that was too much. It also has only 1/4 inch washout
instead of 3/8 that Vi used to rig his wing.
DW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267763#267763
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
06:33:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | New to the list. |
Jon,
Welcome to the list. I'm building a Piet but fly a Grega that I bought.
Does your project have the plywood sides, pilot seat to tail post, per
Grega plans? If so you can loose some weight there. The guys that built
mine cut away most of the ply, leaving about an inch at the uprights and
diagonals and more where the gussets are on the Piet plans.
Skip
I am working toward covering the fuselage but to do that I have needed to
do preliminary rigging and found some guide blocks mis-located.
Jon Coxwell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: any GN-1 builders |
Bryan,
I have been working on my GN-1 for 3 1/2 years -- almost done. Here
is a link to a 1000 photos of the project you may find useful.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/berniejr/sets/72157617340470074/
Regards,
Tom Bernie
N666TB
Gloucester Mass
On Oct 13, 2009, at 9:43 PM, coxwelljon wrote:
> >
>
> Hi Bryan,
>
> See my post "new to the list" I am about 1 year into finishing
> someone else's project. My GN-1 has never flown. I purchased it
> several years ago and I am now working on it in earnest.
>
> --------
> Jon Coxwell
> Recycle and preserve the planet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267840#267840
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | website to journal Piet build |
Don & Peyton-
I may have missed it on your nifty White Lightning
web page, but where are you located? It helps the
other builders to know where you are so maybe they
can visit you or vice-versa.
I see you guys are dreaming about that radial engine...
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: any GN-1 builders |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
Tom,
Thank you for posting that link. I found the pictures to be very informative.
I am sure that I will be back to the site many times.
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267922#267922
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New to the list. |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
Skip,
I thought about that, but decided against it. All the fairings were in place and
the plywood is so thin. I weighed some pieces and found that I was dealing
with ounces so I decided that it would be a lot of work for very little gain.
All of my mounting hardware on the tail was maked for 1/4" bolts instead of
3/16" I have remodeled that and where holes were already drilled in the wood,
I plugged the holes with hardwood dowels and epoxy and re drilled the holes to
a smaller size. .Some were miss placed so this allowed me to get proper alignment.
The weight savings for smaller bolts and nuts adds up to quite a few square
inches of plywood. I also am changing the tail wheel design as I mentioned
before to save some weight.
By the way I did check out the archives on weight and balance and found some good
information. This list is a good resource.
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267928#267928
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net> |
| Subject: | Don't leave your Piet unguarded |
Hope no one minds my passing this on to the list. It could happen to
you!
Gene
N502R
Brown Bear Damaged Piper Cub N9368D - 2009
I got this this a.m. from my old friend Randy K. who flys for K-2
Aviation in Talkeetna, Alaska. A bear mauled this Cub while parked in
hunting camp in AK. The owner had not cleaned the plane since a fishing
trip so obviously the bear smelled it.
He had 2 new tires, 3 cases of Duct Tape and several rolls of thick
plastic wrap brought out to him, repaired the plane and flew it home. I
bet, from the look of the right side horizontal stabilizer, he still had
to hold a lot of left rudder and stick. Gutsy eh? cr
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
10/14/09 06:33:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: website to journal Piet build |
| From: | "swamppilot" <donrucker.ctg(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Oscar,
We are located in Shreveport, Louisiana. As far as we can determine we may be the
only active Piet build in the State. I hope not. It would be great to have
another build going on close by. At this point we are planning for a C-200. A
radial would be way cool but is probably not realistic based what we have learned
so far.
Don
>Don & Peyton-
I may have missed it on your nifty White Lightning
web page, but where are you located? It helps the
other builders to know where you are so maybe they
can visit you or vice-versa.
I see you guys are dreaming about that radial engine...
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267972#267972
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Tunnicliffe" <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ> |
| Subject: | Re: website to journal Piet build |
Have you had a look at the Rotec radials made in Australia, you get a lot of
engine for the money and I haven't heard anything bad about them.
regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "swamppilot" <donrucker.ctg(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:21 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: website to journal Piet build
>
>
> Hi Oscar,
>
> We are located in Shreveport, Louisiana. As far as we can determine we may
> be the only active Piet build in the State. I hope not. It would be great
> to have another build going on close by. At this point we are planning for
> a C-200. A radial would be way cool but is probably not realistic based
> what we have learned so far.
>
> Don
>
>
>>Don & Peyton-
>
> I may have missed it on your nifty White Lightning
> web page, but where are you located? It helps the
> other builders to know where you are so maybe they
> can visit you or vice-versa.
>
> I see you guys are dreaming about that radial engine...
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267972#267972
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | how many Ford piets are being built? |
First off, can somebody send me or give me a link where I can see some pics
of Vi's new Piet?
Secondly, I was thinking that there is a passle of Ford Piets nearing
completion, some that I know about are; mine, Dan Helsper's, Vi's, I think
Gene Rambo is pretty far along.
I'm curious what others are in the works that I'm unaware of. How 'bout
everyone building a Ford Piet give a shout and an update about where you are
in the project.
I'm excited to see some new ones at Brodhead next year!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: how many Ford piets are being built? |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Douwe,
Here's an answer to your first question:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=63357&sid=60c7e748a1c33bcd614560a6e8f36cfc
That's all I can help with.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268042#268042
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: how many Ford piets are being built? |
Model A
Both wings need varnish and a bit of sanding.
Just finished up final details on the instrument panel.
One wing needs LE ply
All major wood and metal work is done.
Some cowling around the engine remains to be fabricated.
Then ready for covering.
And some (ok, MANY) little details here and there.....
I was hoping for Brodhead next year (I'm keeping the faith!) but unless that lottery
thing comes through, it will probably be 2011 for me....
Jim in rainy Seattle....then home in a couple days to get back to work on fun stuff!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
>Sent: Oct 15, 2009 5:34 AM
>To: pietenpolgroup
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: how many Ford piets are being built?
>
>
>First off, can somebody send me or give me a link where I can see some pics
>of Vi's new Piet?
>
>Secondly, I was thinking that there is a passle of Ford Piets nearing
>completion, some that I know about are; mine, Dan Helsper's, Vi's, I think
>Gene Rambo is pretty far along.
>
>I'm curious what others are in the works that I'm unaware of. How 'bout
>everyone building a Ford Piet give a shout and an update about where you are
>in the project.
>
>I'm excited to see some new ones at Brodhead next year!
>
>Douwe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: how many Ford piets are being =?UTF-8?Q?built=3F? |
Jim,
What's that triangular cutout on the side panel of the fuselage? It looks
like you have two layers of ply on the side with a cutout on the outer
layer.
--Ken
wrote:
> Model A
> Both wings need varnish and a bit of sanding.
> Just finished up final details on the instrument panel.
> One wing needs LE ply
> All major wood and metal work is done.
> Some cowling around the engine remains to be fabricated.
> Then ready for covering.
> And some (ok, MANY) little details here and there.....
>
> I was hoping for Brodhead next year (I'm keeping the faith!) but unless
> that lottery thing comes through, it will probably be 2011 for me....
>
> Jim in rainy Seattle....then home in a couple days to get back to work on
> fun stuff!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
>>Sent: Oct 15, 2009 5:34 AM
>>To: pietenpolgroup
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: how many Ford piets are being built?
>>
>>
>>
>>First off, can somebody send me or give me a link where I can see some
>>pics
>>of Vi's new Piet?
>>
>>Secondly, I was thinking that there is a passle of Ford Piets nearing
>>completion, some that I know about are; mine, Dan Helsper's, Vi's, I
think
>>Gene Rambo is pretty far along.
>>
>>I'm curious what others are in the works that I'm unaware of. How 'bout
>>everyone building a Ford Piet give a shout and an update about where you
>>are
>>in the project.
>>
>>I'm excited to see some new ones at Brodhead next year!
>>
>>Douwe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: how many Ford piets are being built? |
That's pretty, ain't it! :-)
I got that fuse from a fellow that had a pretty nasty ground loop and his cub type
gear folded up...and the wheel actually put a big hole in the side. So I
cut out the area and scabbed in a patch. The inside is one piece but thank goodness
the outer area will be covered!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ken Howe <ken@cooper-mtn.com>
>Sent: Oct 15, 2009 10:18 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how many Ford piets are being built?
>
>
>Jim,
>
>What's that triangular cutout on the side panel of the fuselage? It looks
>like you have two layers of ply on the side with a cutout on the outer
>layer.
>
>--Ken
>
>
> wrote:
>> Model A
>> Both wings need varnish and a bit of sanding.
>> Just finished up final details on the instrument panel.
>> One wing needs LE ply
>> All major wood and metal work is done.
>> Some cowling around the engine remains to be fabricated.
>> Then ready for covering.
>> And some (ok, MANY) little details here and there.....
>>
>> I was hoping for Brodhead next year (I'm keeping the faith!) but unless
>> that lottery thing comes through, it will probably be 2011 for me....
>>
>> Jim in rainy Seattle....then home in a couple days to get back to work on
>> fun stuff!
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
>>>Sent: Oct 15, 2009 5:34 AM
>>>To: pietenpolgroup
>>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: how many Ford piets are being built?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>First off, can somebody send me or give me a link where I can see some
>>>pics
>>>of Vi's new Piet?
>>>
>>>Secondly, I was thinking that there is a passle of Ford Piets nearing
>>>completion, some that I know about are; mine, Dan Helsper's, Vi's, I
>think
>>>Gene Rambo is pretty far along.
>>>
>>>I'm curious what others are in the works that I'm unaware of. How 'bout
>>>everyone building a Ford Piet give a shout and an update about where you
>>>are
>>>in the project.
>>>
>>>I'm excited to see some new ones at Brodhead next year!
>>>
>>>Douwe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: how many Ford piets are being built? |
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
Fort Atkinson, WI
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268100#268100
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1248_207.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1215_984.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1216_243.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: how many Ford piets are being built? |
| From: | "BYD" <byd(at)att.net> |
Two idiots building Model A piets together - one in Puget Sound (Fuselages and
engines) the other in Vancouver, WA (Wings, Center sections and tails). Been
at it over 20-years and will probably be at it in 20 more but some day we will
shock the world and finish.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268121#268121
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <r.r.hall(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Don't leave your Piet unguarded |
HMMMM SO what is the cost difference in covering with ceconite and covering with
Duct tape? I always did like that silver color. :-)
Rodney
---- Gene & Tammy wrote:
> Hope no one minds my passing this on to the list. It could happen to you!
> Gene
> N502R
>
>
> Brown Bear Damaged Piper Cub N9368D - 2009
>
> I got this this a.m. from my old friend Randy K. who flys for K-2 Aviation in
Talkeetna, Alaska. A bear mauled this Cub while parked in hunting camp in AK.
The owner had not cleaned the plane since a fishing trip so obviously the bear
smelled it.
> He had 2 new tires, 3 cases of Duct Tape and several rolls of thick plastic wrap
brought out to him, repaired the plane and flew it home. I bet, from the look
of the right side horizontal stabilizer, he still had to hold a lot of left
rudder and stick. Gutsy eh? cr.avg.com
> 10/14/09 06:33:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Don't leave your Piet unguarded |
And what's the weight difference between raw duct tape and painted
Ceconite?
HMMMM SO what is the cost difference in covering with ceconite and
covering with Duct tape? I always did like that silver color. :-)
Rodney
---- Gene color: #000000; font-size: x-small;">
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Markle's photos and Ford Piets |
Dear Jim,
You photo progress photos are REALLY encouraging however I too believe that you
will most likely be a 2011 Brodhead Newcomer because
unless you're going a really slip-shod job of fabric covering and rolling on some
of that Sherwin-Williams house latex paint with a roller,
you'll not be in attendance at Brodhead 2010.
It took me ONE ENTIRE YEAR to cover, paint, and assemble my plane to fly. Your
mileage may vary. I'm talking everything running, ready
for flight, control cables in, wings rigged, struts made, the whole thing was pre-assembled
(ala what the Tony Bingleis books suggest)
and it still took me ONE YEAR to cover, paint, and assemble. One year. I hope
some of you guys are faster than I was but of course I had
to satisfy Piet groupies, girlfriends, and neighbor ladies during the last year
of covering so don't go by my estimate. You may be much
more effiecient than I. Best wishes to all for those hoping to make it to Brodhead
2010 !
And most certainly I jest with some of this content.
Mike C. in Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Vetter" <vetter(at)evertek.net> |
I'm new to the list,and don't have a Piet yet. I'm looking at a
project( actually 2 of them), but haven't made a commitment yet. My
brother has one, but hasn't flown it in a few years. I currently fly a
miniMAX.
The projects I'm looking at are set up for the Corvair. I'm having fun
reading some of the post and trying to learn more about this neat little
plane
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ford Powered Piets |
My Air Camper project is rather slow the last couple of years what with tw
o boys in college. But the fuselage sits on the landing gear (Jennie style
) with control sticks in, motor mount from Ken Perkins, tail feathers buil
t, ribs built (I cheated -- the late, great Charlie Rubeck ribs) and prop,
prop hub and engine on hand -- the engine is in good shape but has to be
rebuilt/modified...its last duty was as a saw mill/conveyor belt rig in
Northern Minnesota.
I'm like Jim Markle -- If I win the lottery we'll have it finished up in
no time. Right now it is very easy to build faster than the budget allows
. Gives new meaning to the term "budget overruns." One of these days I'll
make another trip to McCormick's Lumber in Madison, WI, for wing spar mat
erial.
Funny story -- I bought a Kollsman altimeter on e-Bay a couple years ago
-- advertised as "works." The price was right and so when it arrived I se
t it for La Crosse's altitude and then took a drive up the nearby 600-feet
bluffs -- works perfectly. Of course I like to have info on the various
parts and pieces in my airplane, so I wrote to Kollsman (now part of Squa
re D) and requested info on the altimeter. They wrote back and said that
based on my model and serial number, my altimeter was built to a military
contract (1938!) and therefore they were not authorised to release any in
formation about it! So, my Pietenpol apparently has a top secret altimeter
!
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
TBYH(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Markle's photos and Ford Piets |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I have yet to see any Piet groupies at Jim's barn, so that shouldn't slow him down.
His biggest problem is finding time to work on his project. The guy can't
stop for 5 minutes! He came by last Saturday for a cup of coffee (supposedly)
and all I saw was a spinning coffee cup in a cloud of dust. I suppose that
was him that zipped through. I wouldn't even say that I knew for sure, but
I was missing a few things, so it was either him or that other low down scoundrel
that can sniff out a Piet project while standing at the baggage claim.
Anyhow... I know that Jim is studying in his spare time, and he has help if he
needs it. Could it be that he is up to the 2010 challenge?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268216#268216
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ford Powered Piets |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Skunk Works... Squirrel Works... and now ???
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268221#268221
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Markle's photos and Ford Piets |
And as it turned out, it was a good thing I didn't stay as long as I wanted. I
ended up finally locating some oval furnace ducting just 15 minutes before the
store closed. And I had to get a furnace installed for a coooooold renter.
But I got it done so this weekend I get to do FUN Pietenpol stuff!!
What time will coffee be ready Dave? :-)
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: K5YAC <hangar10(at)cox.net>
>Sent: Oct 16, 2009 7:01 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Markle's photos and Ford Piets
>
>
>I have yet to see any Piet groupies at Jim's barn, so that shouldn't slow him
down. His biggest problem is finding time to work on his project. The guy can't
stop for 5 minutes! He came by last Saturday for a cup of coffee (supposedly)
and all I saw was a spinning coffee cup in a cloud of dust. I suppose that
was him that zipped through. I wouldn't even say that I knew for sure, but
I was missing a few things, so it was either him or that other low down scoundrel
that can sniff out a Piet project while standing at the baggage claim.
>
>Anyhow... I know that Jim is studying in his spare time, and he has help if he
needs it. Could it be that he is up to the 2010 challenge?
>
>--------
>Mark - working on wings
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268216#268216
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ford Powered Piets |
I built a BD-5 out at a place I called the "Bug Farm."
It was an old barn adjacent to a creek and the bugs were pretty bad. The
comment to people who'd want to know what the Bug Farm thing was all about
was, no, we weren't raising them intentionally, and that I was the harvest.
Difficult workshop, pretty location though.
David Paule
P.S. The BD-5 wasn't mine. It was the job that put me through college.
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Powered Piets
>
> Skunk Works... Squirrel Works... and now ???
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268221#268221
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Bill Church provided a link but it just took me back to the matronics site,
no photos.
Where are you guys seeing pics of Vi's piet?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net> |
Here's the pictures I sent to the list.
Perry Rhoads
N12939
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 11:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vi's piet
>
>
> Bill Church provided a link but it just took me back to the matronics
> site,
> no photos.
>
> Where are you guys seeing pics of Vi's piet?
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Douwe,
It was a link to the original post, but on the Matronics Pietenpol
Forum, which allows attachments. There are two photos attached to the
original message. One is of Vi's new Piet, and the other is of Vi's old
Piet, which he apparently just sold. Here's the same link once again.
This is the only publicly available photo of Vi's new Piet that I'm
aware of.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=63357&sid=60c7e748a1c33bc
d61
4560a6e8f36cfc
And, just in case that link somehow doesn't work for you (I just checked
it, and it worked for me), I've attached a copy of that same photo to
this message.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 12:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vi's piet
-->
Bill Church provided a link but it just took me back to the matronics
site, no photos.
Where are you guys seeing pics of Vi's piet?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Markle's photos and Ford Piets |
Thats right, you will want to use Sears Weatherbeater Latex paint, and brus
hed on, not rolled on!- Ha ha ha
-
Shad
>
>> unless you're going a really slip-shod job of fabric covering and rollin
g on some of that Sherwin-Williams house latex paint with a roller,
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
Well=2C we've been really dead at work so in my spare time I did some guest
imating - not estimating - GUESStimating. This is based on what I percieve
to have left to do on my Pietenpol and what I believe it will cost. Also
based on the hours to date divided by the number of years/months etc=2C I'v
e been working.
Cost = $17/per week
Hours per week = 2.5
Estimated completion March 2018.
Guess I should speed up eh?
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
What is the correct size for ROUND lift struts.
I know this has been discussed and I have looked back in the archives but really
did not find an answer to my question?
When I purchased my project it came with 2 complete sets of struts. One set which
is round and a set of cub struts that were shortened. At first I was delighted
with the cub struts but the shortening was done right in the middle and
the cut and weld was done perpendicular to the strut rather than on a diagonal.
I do not know what the lower ends are like as they are now sealed.
There is a big difference in the weight of the 2 sets and I am leaning toward ROUND
struts with fairings but cannot find a size for this option on either the
GN-1 plans or the Pietenpol plans. I could do engineering calculations if need
be, but would rather not re-invent the wheel.
Any help out there?
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268300#268300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Lane" <dslane(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 10/15/09 |
>>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: how many Ford piets are being built?
>
> I'm curious what others are in the works that I'm unaware of. How 'bout
> everyone building a Ford Piet give a shout and an update about where you
> are
> in the project.
>
> I'm excited to see some new ones at Brodhead next year!
>
> Douwe
>
>
> I'm in Minnesott Beach NC, right across the river from Cherry Point Marine
> Air Station, so I get to see Ospreys, Harriers, and C-130s every day.
My Piet has a Ford A with some Ken Perkins parts. Runs great, but throws
oil out the rear main bearing, which is now the front.
I will just have to keep a rag handy to wipe it down after every flight.
I am working on the engine cowling, and need to do the windscreens and
cockpit interior. Also some painting of small parts. Then ready for final
assembly and certification.
It has Jenny gear and a latex paint job, not show quality.
Don Lane
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Tom,
Could be right on. I started mine in July of 2000. Just spray painting now
. All construction is complete except cockpit coaming. Life got in the way
and had no support from home for the project. But I am not the kind of gu
y to give up on a dream. I will fly her this next spring. Finally seeing
the downhill stretch. Can't hardly believe it myself. The secret is just
keep putting one foot in front of the other and always look ahead. You ca
n do it too. Keep going.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 5:15 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: statistics
Well, we've been really dead at work so in my spare time I did some guesti
mating - not estimating - GUESStimating. This is based on what I percieve
to have left to do on my Pietenpol and what I believe it will cost. Also
based on the hours to date divided by the number of years/months etc, I'v
e been working.
Cost = $17/per week
Hours per week = 2.5
Estimated completion March 2018.
Guess I should speed up eh?
Tom B.
========================
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
Tom,
Discipline yourself to work at least 15 minutes a night(or morning) on some small
part of the ship. You will be amazed at what gets done in a years time. I found
that by just getting started each day, I would continue far past the 10 minute
minimum.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268320#268320
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Good People,
I remember somebody posting a message outlining how they set-up a jig to
do engine-turning on large panels (cowlings). Can't find it in the archiv
es. Anybody remember this one, or have any new ideas? Thanks.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
You may have to do the math Jon. I looked in the 1932 flying manual and the
piet plans there called for streamline strut material.
Bryan Green
Elgin SC
----- Original Message -----
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 11:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
>
>
> What is the correct size for ROUND lift struts.
>
> I know this has been discussed and I have looked back in the archives but
> really did not find an answer to my question?
>
> When I purchased my project it came with 2 complete sets of struts. One
> set which is round and a set of cub struts that were shortened. At first
> I was delighted with the cub struts but the shortening was done right in
> the middle and the cut and weld was done perpendicular to the strut rather
> than on a diagonal. I do not know what the lower ends are like as they
> are now sealed.
>
> There is a big difference in the weight of the 2 sets and I am leaning
> toward ROUND struts with fairings but cannot find a size for this option
> on either the GN-1 plans or the Pietenpol plans. I could do engineering
> calculations if need be, but would rather not re-invent the wheel.
>
> Any help out there?
>
> --------
> Jon Coxwell
> Recycle and preserve the planet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268300#268300
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig |
Dan:
Here is how I did my instrument panel. I used a 1" hole saw core from a 3/4" thick
piece of pine for the mandrel. I glued in a hardwood dowel for the shaft.
To the bottom of the mandrel, I then glued on a thin scotch brite pad. I chucked
the mandrel into a drill press and applied light pressure for 2 seconds. I
used a 50/50 mix of oil and kerosene for a lube.
The attached photo shows the jig set up. I attached the aluminum I was turning,
to a 3/8" thick piece of plywood. I made sure that the left edge and the bottom
of the plywood that the aluminum was attached to was square, as I used these
for the guide edges. I next laid out a grid pattern on paper and glued it to
another sheet of plywood. You have to decide what the pattern is you are going
to make to then determine the grid size (also the mandrel size). I think mine
may have been 1/2". Next drill a series of locating pin holes on the left and
right sides, along a left vertical and right vertical. These will be used to
locate the horizontal edge guide. Next prepare the horizontal edge guide out
of a 1 x 4 board. The guide needs one edge flat and two locating pin holes drilled.
The rest is pretty self explanatory from the photo. I started at the upper left,
indexing the horizontal edge with the board and aligning the left edge of the
aluminum mounting board along one of the vertical lines. The only issue with
doing a cowling is that you may have to move things around a bit to get clearance
with the drill press.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig |
I did mine very similar to how Rick did it, except I was lazy and just used
an old Continental exhaust valve with scotchbrite glued onto it for the
tool.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Schreiber
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 4:18 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig
Dan:
Here is how I did my instrument panel. I used a 1" hole saw core from a 3/4"
thick piece of pine for the mandrel. I glued in a hardwood dowel for the
shaft. To the bottom of the mandrel, I then glued on a thin scotch brite
pad. I chucked the mandrel into a drill press and applied light pressure for
2 seconds. I used a 50/50 mix of oil and kerosene for a lube.
The attached photo shows the jig set up. I attached the aluminum I was
turning, to a 3/8" thick piece of plywood. I made sure that the left edge
and the bottom of the plywood that the aluminum was attached to was square,
as I used these for the guide edges. I next laid out a grid pattern on paper
and glued it to another sheet of plywood. You have to decide what the
pattern is you are going to make to then determine the grid size (also the
mandrel size). I think mine may have been 1/2". Next drill a series of
locating pin holes on the left and right sides, along a left vertical and
right vertical. These will be used to locate the horizontal edge guide. Next
prepare the horizontal edge guide out of a 1 x 4 board. The guide needs one
edge flat and two locating pin holes drilled.
The rest is pretty self explanatory from the photo. I started at the upper
left, indexing the horizontal edge with the board and aligning the left edge
of the aluminum mounting board along one of the vertical lines. The only
issue with doing a cowling is that you may have to move things around a bit
to get clearance with the drill press.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig |
At the time I did mine I was trying to get an exhaust valve to use for the mandrel.
I may have even gotten the idea from you Jack. I just didn't have one. I
was looking around my shop trying to decide what I was going to use, when I saw
this old scrap hole saw core sitting on the bench. Then the light bulb went
on!
Rick S
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Thanks Rick and Jack,
My problem is that the major piece of the cowl is all one piece, sides and
bottom (photos attached). I will have to cannibalize a drill press, and
make it a "deep throat" model in order to handle the size so I can reach
the center. I think I have an idea that will work, the only unanswered qu
estion in my mind now is can I "unbend" the nice gentle curve I have in my
cowl piece to get a flat enough surface to work with?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig |
Wow Dan!!!
Its really looking good.
You could probably make up a fixture out of wood for a 1/4" portable drill stand,
but once the cowling is bent , that makes things a little more difficult.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig |
Man! What a beautiful airplane!
Unless you want to drill out all those rivets and work with flat pieces, I
wouldn't touch it Dan. Too much chance of screwing it up.
The scotchbrite pad on the hole drill core or exhaust valve has a bit of
"give" in it and can work with a gentle curve. The hard part will be
maintaining a uniform pattern over the whole cowling. It is far easier to
engine turn the material first, then work with it to form the cowling. That
way, you can ensure that the rows of swirls all line up properly
Experiment first on some scrap material and see how well you can cover up a
screwup with fresh swirl marks - it might work ok. Otherwise, get it flying
with this cowling and make another cowl with the engine turning on it.
Nice work, Dan.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig
Thanks Rick and Jack,
My problem is that the major piece of the cowl is all one piece, sides and
bottom (photos attached). I will have to cannibalize a drill press, and make
it a "deep throat" model in order to handle the size so I can reach the
center. I think I have an idea that will work, the only unanswered question
in my mind now is can I "unbend" the nice gentle curve I have in my cowl
piece to get a flat enough surface to work with?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig |
BTW, I wouldn't try flying it with that prop.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig
Thanks Rick and Jack,
My problem is that the major piece of the cowl is all one piece, sides and
bottom (photos attached). I will have to cannibalize a drill press, and make
it a "deep throat" model in order to handle the size so I can reach the
center. I think I have an idea that will work, the only unanswered question
in my mind now is can I "unbend" the nice gentle curve I have in my cowl
piece to get a flat enough surface to work with?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
Thanks Bryan,
I was afraid of that. I hope I can apply some of my architectural structures to
aeronautical engineering. I was hoping that since there are some airplanes
flying around with wooden struts that someone may have already done the calculations.
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268379#268379
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | drilling spar in tight places |
I did a search on this and couldn't really find much - maybe didn't do it r
ight.. Anyway=2C I'm going to be working on the CC and figured I better mak
e the fittings first in order to get the holes drilled correctly. Assuming
you catch every hole at this point (before the wing is assembled) this wil
l work. What about holes that you have to drill once things are together -
very little clearance for a drill / bit in some spaces.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
I started covering my Piet in a September with the thought that I'd be flying before
Winter set in. Ha! I finally trailered it to the airport the following
November! It took me over a year too Mike. And I was consistently working on
it. Not every day but at least a couple of days a week. It took much longer
than I ever would have imagined! I can't imagine the big biplane guys. Or
how about the Staggerwing guys with the closely spaced rib stitching (because
of the high VNE). That would be like rib stitching eight Pietenpol wing panels!
Wow! I'm currently restoring an Aeronca Chief along with my dad. We are
finally at the exciting covering stage. Although they stick up and are ugly,
the PK screws are amazing compared to rib stitching!! No cut fingers and you
can do an entire wing panel in the time it takes to rib stitch like, one rib!
Still you can't beat rib stitching, it really is the way wings were meant to
be covered, right?
Tri-Champ. Come on, now. What was Aeronca thinking!?
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268393#268393
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig |
| From: | outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com |
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DQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
V293IERhbiB3aGF0IGEgZ3JlYXQgbG9va2luZyBhaXJwbGFuZSEgSGV5LCBub3QgdG8gdGhyb3cg
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ZWxzcGVyDQoNClBvcGxhciBHcm92ZSwgSUwuDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
SXRzIG5pY2Ugd2UgY2FuIGFsbCBhZ3JlZSBvbiB3aGF0J3MgdWdseSBhbmQgd2hhdCdzIG5vdC4g
SSBjYW4ndCB3YWl0IHRpbGwgd2UgYWxsIGhhdmUgMTcycy4gTm90IHRoYXQncyBiZWF1dHkgaW4g
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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpIb3RtYWlsOiBQb3dlcmZ1bCBGcmVlIGVt
YWlsIHdpdGggc2VjdXJpdHkgYnkgTWljcm9zb2Z0Lg0KDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vi Kapler's Piets |
| From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
Jack, you are correct. Vi is has a timing problem. He believes the timing gear
is off one tooth. He plans to check and repair over the winter. Should be
ready to fly in the spring.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268422#268422
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike" <bike.mike(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | time to cover airplanes/ wings |
Guys! C'mon! They're airplanes. By definition, like babies, they are all
beautiful, even though some are more beautiful than others.
[ snippage]
Nope the Tri-Pacer is uglier. OK I'll comprimise, Thery're both FUGLY.
[more snippage]
> Sorry, but Mike is right about the Tri-Champ.
> The Tri-Pacer is gawky, but the Tri-Champ is U G L Y.
[still more snippage]
>
> One more thing the Tri-Champ is NOT the ugliest plane, the Tri-Pacer is.
I've got about 200hrs in one and it is still ugly. Often called the flying
milk stool.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | time to cover airplanes/ wings |
You have a point. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. However=2C In 20
0+hrs of holding the yoke of a Tri-Pacer I found no beauty in looking at it
=2C but found great beauty in the fact that it got me off the ground. And
the bomb proof nose gear saved my a** at least once.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: bike.mike(at)comcast.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: time to cover airplanes/ wings
Date: Sun=2C 18 Oct 2009 10:16:05 -0700
Guys! C'mon! They're airplanes. By definition=2C like babies=2C they are
all beautiful=2C even though some are more beautiful than others.
[ snippage]
Nope the Tri-Pacer is uglier. OK I'll comprimise=2C Thery're both FUGLY.
[more snippage]
> Sorry=2C but Mike is right about the Tri-Champ.
> The Tri-Pacer is gawky=2C but the Tri-Champ is U G L Y.
[still more snippage]
>
> One more thing the Tri-Champ is NOT the ugliest plane=2C the Tri-Pacer is
. I've got about 200hrs in one and it is still ugly. Often called the flyin
g milk stool.
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
Jon,
There was a bit of discussion about tbs over on the Tailwind group on
yahoo. I think ASS has a conversion in their catalog. I will try to
look up the details for you if I can dig it up. I've already deleted
those emails.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
On Oct 18, 2009, at 12:30 AM, "coxwelljon"
wrote:
> >
>
> Thanks Bryan,
>
> I was afraid of that. I hope I can apply some of my architectural
> structures to aeronautical engineering. I was hoping that since
> there are some airplanes flying around with wooden struts that
> someone may have already done the calculations.
>
> --------
> Jon Coxwell
> Recycle and preserve the planet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268379#268379
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
RE: [TailwindForum] Streamline Tubing
Out of acs cat.
Major
Axis
Minor
Axis
Wall
Equiv.
Round Tubing
Tens. - Compr.
Wt./Ft.
Part No.
Price
Buy
1.012
0.428
.035
3/4
1/2
0.269
03-11300
$24.50
1.180
0.500
.035
7/8
7/16
0.314
03-11400
$14.25
1.349
0.571
.049
1
5/8
0.498
03-11500
$15.75
1.685
0.714
.049
1-1/4
3/4
0.629
03-11600
$37.50
2.023
0.857
.049
1-1/2
1
0.759
03-11700
$26.85
2.360
1.000
.049
1-3/4
1-18
0.890
03-11800
$28.50
2.697
1.143
.065
2
1-1/4
1.021
03-11900
$43.75
3.372
1.429
.049
2-1/2
1-1/2
1.283
03-12000
$45.50
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
On Oct 16, 2009, at 11:19 PM, "coxwelljon"
wrote:
> >
>
> What is the correct size for ROUND lift struts.
>
> I know this has been discussed and I have looked back in the
> archives but really did not find an answer to my question?
>
> When I purchased my project it came with 2 complete sets of struts.
> One set which is round and a set of cub struts that were shortened.
> At first I was delighted with the cub struts but the shortening was
> done right in the middle and the cut and weld was done perpendicular
> to the strut rather than on a diagonal. I do not know what the
> lower ends are like as they are now sealed.
>
> There is a big difference in the weight of the 2 sets and I am
> leaning toward ROUND struts with fairings but cannot find a size for
> this option on either the GN-1 plans or the Pietenpol plans. I
> could do engineering calculations if need be, but would rather not
> re-invent the wheel.
>
> Any help out there?
>
> --------
> Jon Coxwell
> Recycle and preserve the planet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268300#268300
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
Hello good people. Since I started my build I was curious to see how my widening
was going to work out. I got the chance to find out today.
I finally decided to try her on for size and let me tell you the first time sitting
in my Piet fuse was great.
I spent about an hour sittin in the back pit. I sure wished I smoked it felt that
good. Not ready to make airplane noises yet but I did some real good basement
flying
She measures 27" on the inside, plenty or room for me and a jacket, legs etc.....
Fits great
John
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A first for me |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Awesome John! I think that a mock fuse will be one of my winter projects.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268473#268473
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A first for me |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
The 27" wide is really great as a wide glide goes. I highly recommend it. Hard
to believe and no mock up just the naked grease adventure at Makles did the trick.
And told me something about the company I keep.
I mean that in the nicest possible way.
Just got home and looking forward to Catoosa week of the 26th all remains on schedule
on this end
John
John
John
------Original Message------
From: Mark Chunard
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Oct 18, 2009 10:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A first for me
Awesome John! I think that a mock fuse will be one of my winter projects.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268473#268473
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A first for me |
John,
I enjoyed meeting you on your trip through Portland. If you come back this
way again maybe I'll have something to show you on my project. Next step
for me after I get done making ribs will be a fuse mock-up for the
'fit-check'.
Here's some history of the experimental amateur-built classification and
the location of the pub where we met
http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/oregon_outlaws.html?c=y&page=1
Ken
>
> The 27" wide is really great as a wide glide goes. I highly recommend it.
> Hard to believe and no mock up just the naked grease adventure at Makles
> did the trick. And told me something about the company I keep.
>
> I mean that in the nicest possible way.
>
> Just got home and looking forward to Catoosa week of the 26th all remains
> on schedule on this end
>
> John
>
> John
>
> John
> ------Original Message------
> From: Mark Chunard
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> To: Pietenpol builders Board
> ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
> Sent: Oct 18, 2009 10:30 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A first for me
>
>
> Awesome John! I think that a mock fuse will be one of my winter
projects.
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268473#268473
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Chapter 1218 Pietenpol? |
Hi all,
Anyone on here from EAA Chapter 1218 in Missouri?
I just ran across their Pietenpol build pages and am flabbergasted -
they started builing on April 28th and covered it in early September! WOW!
http://www.eaa1218.org/index.php/chapter-projects/37-pietenpol
It's also the biggest vertical stabilizer I've ever seen on a Piet
(well, except for that Piet on floats up in Canada).
And side doors - it's got side doors!
Cheers,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Winter flying |
Hey Don,
If you get around to it, take some more pictures of Frank's skis, maybe
with a tape measure held up to 'em. They don't look too hard to make,
but I'd like some dimensions...
I'll probably be nutty enough to go flying this winter a few times...
Thanks,
Dan
Don Emch wrote:
>
> Gene,
>
> The skiis are borrowed from Frank Pavliga. I've used them the last two winters.
I might be pushing it to borrow them again this winter! Frank bought the
old bottoms and made a pylon type of structure to fit. They really are fairly
simple and someday I intend to draw up some prints for them and make a set for
myself. When I do I'll post them on here.
>
> Here is a closer shot of them...
>
> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/skiflyin_005.jpg
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266348#266348
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
Disregarding buckling strength and related issues.....
As a point of reference. 1" OD 4130 normalized tubing with .049 wall has a sectional
area of .149 sq. inches. Per Wicks 4130 link....the normalized tubing has
a tensile strength of 95,000psi. Do the math and you get 14,155 pounds pull
per strut.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268571#268571
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings |
Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
> How about the Champion Lancer 402? A fixed gear twin engine Champ? What a funny
looking plane.
And apparently a "champ" in the air. Someone, it may have been Bud
Davisson, wrote a flight review of it. The title was, "I Flew the
Lancer...And Lived!"
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings |
No... The lancer was a cool looking plane. It would have been cooler
as a taildragger, though.
http://www.aerotraining.com/html_gif/champion_lancer.jpg
I can't think of many planes that shouldn't have been taildraggers.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
> NGB"
>
> How about the Champion Lancer 402? A fixed gear twin engine Champ?
> What a funny looking plane.
> Blue Skies
> Steve D
> 35
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Chapter 1218 Pietenpol? |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Dan,
I am sitting here scratching my head looking at those pictures. Nothing I
see looks like a Pietenpol to me. Am I crazy? This is NOT a Pietenpol.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Sent: Mon, Oct 19, 2009 11:25 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chapter 1218 Pietenpol?
Hi all,
Anyone on here from EAA Chapter 1218 in Missouri?
I just ran across their Pietenpol build pages and am flabbergasted - they
started builing on April 28th and covered it in early September! WOW!
http://www.eaa1218.org/index.php/chapter-projects/37-pietenpol
It's also the biggest vertical stabilizer I've ever seen on a Piet (well,
except for that Piet on floats up in Canada).
And side doors - it's got side doors!
Cheers,
Dan
-- Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Chapter 1218 Pietenpol? |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
RGFuIA0KDQpZb3Ugd291bGQga25vdyBiZXN0IG9uIHRoYXQgc2NvcmUuIE1heWJlIHlvdSBnb3Qg
dG8gY2hlY2sgaW4gdGhlIEJlcm5lcmQgbG9zdCBwYXBlcnMgZm9yIHZlcmlmaWNhdGlvbiBvZiBk
ZXNpZ24gYXV0aGVudGljaXR5LiANCg0KRG8gbm90IGFyY2hpdmUNCg0KSm9obg0KU2VudCBmcm9t
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PT09PT09PT09PT09IA0KPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09IA0KIA0K
IA0KDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: drilling spar in tight places |
The best way to drill spars is lying flat on your drill press, and use the
fittings as drill guides.- After drilling 8 spars for my Jungster 1 Bipla
ne I still had butterflies in my stomach drilling the last one.- Double,
tripple, check all measurements and layouts before drilling those pricey sp
ars.-- Also try to lay-out your-spars on your bench etc (or in your
head if you have a picture perfect mind), and phisically see where all the
fittings go, and mark them and drill them accordingly.- When drilling, I
drilled the 1st hole using the spar fitting clamped tight to the spar, as
a drill guide.- After drilling the 1st hole I placed a bolt through the f
itting and spar to hold it in position, then drill the hole at the other en
d of the fitting, and do the same.- Now the fitting is "locked in place a
nd won't move on you, simply drill the remaing holes, then make sure the fi
tting on the other face of the spars lines up, if so then, un pucker and
relax, the spar is drilled.- If not get away from your airplane before y
ou get really mad and throw something and break something else.......But se
riously, drill any and all holes that can be drilled, on a drill press, the
y will be nice clean and square, oh yea don't forget a backup block so the
spar doesn't split out on the back side of the hole.
-
Long winded again,
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | engine turning alum, warping |
Jack, I have messed around with engine turning a couple times with-"down
time projects" at work.- We have 2 inch scotch brite wheels that go in th
e special arbor, wheel.- How do you keep the piece from warping from the
localized heat?- It seems this makes the aluminum harder, and more likely
to crack.- My technique probably needs refined I imagine.- Just courio
us, might want to turn something in the future.
-
Shad=0A=0A__________________________________________________=0ADo You Yahoo
p://mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Stow away in the piet |
I went flying this evening and after about 20 min realized I had a stow awa
y, or a hi-jacker on board.- Flying over the farm where my wife voulentee
rs I looked up and saw a big(about the size of a quarter)-black wolf spid
er swimming in the fuel gauge!- It must have been in the fuel nozzle when
I filled it up last week, or it unscrewwed the cap climbed in and put the
cap back on.- Hey now that I read this, it makes a good halloween story..
let's see......snakes on a plane, fuel diving spiders, hmmmmm?
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | engine turning alum, warping |
Shad,
The time and pressure that is needed to apply the turning is very minimal. There
is no localized heat issue to worry about.
Rick Schreiber,
Valparaiso, IN
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
Sent: 10/19/2009 7:46:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: engine turning alum, warping
Jack, I have messed around with engine turning a couple times with "down time projects"
at work. We have 2 inch scotch brite wheels that go in the special arbor,
wheel. How do you keep the piece from warping from the localized heat?
It seems this makes the aluminum harder, and more likely to crack. My technique
probably needs refined I imagine. Just courious, might want to turn something
in the future.
Shad
______________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | drilling spar in tight places |
Shad=2C
Thanks - this was occuring to me the other night as I laid out the center s
ection.. As you suggest=2C I will get my fittings made first and use them
as a guide. I can understand the pucker factor - every time I handle the s
pars=2C I'm not nervous=2C just have a greater amount of "respect" for that
material.
Tom B.
Date: Mon=2C 19 Oct 2009 17:21:12 -0700
From: aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drilling spar in tight places
The best way to drill spars is lying flat on your drill press=2C and use th
e fittings as drill guides. After drilling 8 spars for my Jungster 1 Bipla
ne I still had butterflies in my stomach drilling the last one. Double=2C
tripple=2C check all measurements and layouts before drilling those pricey
spars. Also try to lay out your spars on your bench etc (or in your head
if you have a picture perfect mind)=2C and phisically see where all the fit
tings go=2C and mark them and drill them accordingly. When drilling=2C I d
rilled the 1st hole using the spar fitting clamped tight to the spar=2C as
a drill guide. After drilling the 1st hole I placed a bolt through the fit
ting and spar to hold it in position=2C then drill the hole at the other en
d of the fitting=2C and do the same. Now the fitting is "locked in place a
nd won't move on
you=2C simply drill the remaing holes=2C then make sure the fitting on the
other face of the spars lines up=2C if so then=2C un pucker and relax=2C t
he spar is drilled. If not get away from your airplane before you get real
ly mad and throw something and break something else.......But seriously=2C
drill any and all holes that can be drilled=2C on a drill press=2C they wil
l be nice clean and square=2C oh yea don't forget a backup block so the spa
r doesn't split out on the back side of the hole.
Long winded again=2C
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Winter flying |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Hey Dan...
I'll do that. I know he's gonna ask for those things before too long. I'll get
out to the hangar and bring them home. Just this weekend I was thinking about
trying to make some before winter gets here. That means I'll have to draw
up some drawings for them. Before that though I'll take some pictures and post
them on here. I'll try to get you the important measurements.
Every Pietenpoler really should make ski flying a requirement!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268629#268629
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
These pages are from Engineering for the Amateur
Aircraft Builder by Raoul Hoffman.
I finaly scanned them for you guys strutting about.
Don't go crosseyed now! :-)
Clif
"The greatest athlete I ever saw, pound for pound, slept beside my bed
and drank out of my toilet."
ANON
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: drilling spar in tight places |
What you see here is one of those little benchtop drill presses
sitting on my flat and level building bench. With a spar you can
block up the far end of the spar and use the DP table to level
the spar till it's 90=B0 to the drill bit. I would put a long house
building level on the spar and once leveled turn the level
around and check again. If there's a difference then 1/2
that difference is level. The most important, though, is that
the drill is 90=B0 to the plank regardless of how level the thing is
or isn't.
Clif
"Originality is the art of concealing your source." ~ Thomas Edison
The best way to drill spars is lying flat on your drill press,
and use the fittings as drill guides. . Double, tripple, check all
measurements and layouts before drilling those pricey spars. Long
winded again,
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Chapter 1218 Pietenpol? |
Looks like a Piet wing to me. Look at the airfoil shape also.
Interesting to see how it flies with that huge tail.
Clif
Dan,
I am sitting here scratching my head looking at those pictures.
Nothing I see looks like a Pietenpol to me. Am I crazy? This is NOT a
Pietenpol.
Dan Helsper
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Chapter 1218 Pietenpol? |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
I'm with you, dan.
That tail... UGH!
Looks like they decided to make the tail out of steel tube, but
something went awry. YUK.
Some things shouldn't be messed with.
Personally, I don't like the look of the vertical fin faired into the
fuselage on a Pietenpol. But that's just my opinion. Well, I'm probably
not the only one who thinks that (I hope).
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Mon 19/10/2009 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chapter 1218 Pietenpol?
Dan,
I am sitting here scratching my head looking at those pictures. Nothing
I see looks like a Pietenpol to me. Am I crazy? This is NOT a Pietenpol.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Guys,
As a Consulting Mechanical Engineer, I'm going to jump in here, and make a few
observations, as not all of us have the same background.
When a stressed member is being discussed, it might be helpful to add the equations
needed so anyone can use them in the future. In the case of the struts being
discussed, we have several concepts which, although understood by engineers
and those really familiar with the issue being discussed, can become confusing
and/or confused.
First, the Yield Strength of 4130 is somewhat less than the 95,000 psi given.
It turns out that 95,000 psi is generally given as the Ultimate Strength of 4130.
The Yield Strength, however, defined to be that level of stress at which
permanent deformation (stretching) takes place, is around 75,000 psi. (When doing
stress calculations, most engineers will use the Yield Strength, not the
Ultimate, or breaking strength. We not only don't want the member to permanently
stretch, we damn sure don't want it to break. )
The equation describing the strength of any member in tension, and a limited amount
of cases in compression, is:
s = P/A, where s is the Yield Strength, P is the load in pounds, and A is
the cross-sectional area of the member.
In the case of the strut in the discussion, we are looking for the load the member
will carry, so we rearrange the equation, then "plug & chug" to get:
P = s x A = 75,000 x .149 = 11,175 pounds.
This will work very nicely in the case of a member being loaded in tension. If
that member is a slender bar, shaft, tube, etc., however, column buckling equations
come into play.
If the member is a strut at an angle.... we must first apply a little Trig to determine
the vector load on the member prior to determining the load carrying
capacity of that member.
Hope this helps.
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268647#268647
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
Thanks for that explanation. My own understanding of architectural structures
tells me that this member is going to be critical in compression. I will work
out the angles in cad and measure where the jury struts attach based on the way
my wings are built. I believe the main reason for the jury struts is to shorten
the L/R ratio for the strut action in compression.
Thanks again
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268648#268648
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: strut stress |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
Cliff,
Thanks! That makes life a little easier .
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268654#268654
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
What I've read is the struts beome much stronger in compression
with jury struts. Perhaps twice as strong.
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 12:46 AM, coxwelljon wrote:
> coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
>
> Thanks for that explanation. My own understanding of architectural
> structures tells me that this member is going to be critical in compression.
> I will work out the angles in cad and measure where the jury struts attach
> based on the way my wings are built. I believe the main reason for the jury
> struts is to shorten the L/R ratio for the strut action in compression.
>
> Thanks again
>
> --------
> Jon Coxwell
> Recycle and preserve the planet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268648#268648
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
That's right, the jury struts keep the lift struts from buckling in compression.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: coxwelljon <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
>Sent: Oct 19, 2009 11:46 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
>
>
>Thanks for that explanation. My own understanding of architectural structures
tells me that this member is going to be critical in compression. I will work
out the angles in cad and measure where the jury struts attach based on the
way my wings are built. I believe the main reason for the jury struts is to shorten
the L/R ratio for the strut action in compression.
>
>Thanks again
>
>--------
>Jon Coxwell
>Recycle and preserve the planet
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268648#268648
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Prop choices for A-65 |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Good morning all,
There will be an A-65-8 making it's way to our shop in a couple of weeks. I
am contemplating it's future. It is complete, and should be a runner;
however it does not come with a prop. I would prefer to have a wood prop on
the Piet. Can those of you that have wood props flying on A-65's on your
Pietenpol's comment on the make, size, and pitch that you are running, or
you experiences in the past with varying configurations? Thanks much, and
have a good morning.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | engine turning alum, warping |
You don't have to bear down very hard. I was using alclad 2024-T3, and you
just want to scuff the alcald alyer, but not penetrate it or you can get
corrosion problems later. I don't recall heat being an issue, but
understand I did this about 10 years ago.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 8:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: engine turning alum, warping
Jack, I have messed around with engine turning a couple times with "down
time projects" at work. We have 2 inch scotch brite wheels that go in the
special arbor, wheel. How do you keep the piece from warping from the
localized heat? It seems this makes the aluminum harder, and more likely to
crack. My technique probably needs refined I imagine. Just courious, might
want to turn something in the future.
Shad
______________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
Not being an engineer of any sort type or configuration or disciplines,
rocket scientist or mathematician. The explanation is great as is sharing the
equation. And knowing the compression factors and or forces is a really
nice piece of information. However that assumes one knows or can anticipate
the loading, which brings me to my question.
How do we determine the loading values or amounts such that we are able to
compare design and materials yield based upon a calculated or anticipated
need of in flight loading ? Naturally that assumes that the need is the
exact amount of stress applied to a particular structural member during full
and repeated loading? What are the effects of shape, materials,
laminations, composites and metals on their ability to support the load and resist
failure?
For me, not being math savvy, are considered complex concepts and
calculations that are well beyond my simple math skills and aerodynamic calculation
capabilities. I would like someone to provide a simple but effective way
for me and other mathematically challenged builders to determine the
efficacy of our material choices and their ability to respond to a range of loads
without failure?
In short we, correction, I speak for those of us that do not have a death
wish but are mathematically challenged and of a mature age who just want to
fly a safe aircraft, how do we determine those factors pre test flight
rather then post or during test flight activities? I suspect that learning
about catastrophic material failure during a test flight is not a good thing
and may be subject to screwing up ones entire day.
John
In a message dated 10/20/2009 12:33:26 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
tkreiner(at)gmail.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tkreiner"
Guys,
As a Consulting Mechanical Engineer, I'm going to jump in here, and make a
few observations, as not all of us have the same background.
When a stressed member is being discussed, it might be helpful to add the
equations needed so anyone can use them in the future. In the case of the
struts being discussed, we have several concepts which, although understood
by engineers and those really familiar with the issue being discussed, can
become confusing and/or confused.
First, the Yield Strength of 4130 is somewhat less than the 95,000 psi
given. It turns out that 95,000 psi is generally given as the Ultimate
Strength of 4130. The Yield Strength, however, defined to be that level of
stress at which permanent deformation (stretching) takes place, is around 75,000
psi. (When doing stress calculations, most engineers will use the Yield
Strength, not the Ultimate, or breaking strength. We not only don't want
the member to permanently stretch, we damn sure don't want it to break. )
The equation describing the strength of any member in tension, and a
limited amount of cases in compression, is:
s = P/A, where s is the Yield Strength, P is the load in pounds, and A is
the cross-sectional area of the member.
In the case of the strut in the discussion, we are looking for the load
the member will carry, so we rearrange the equation, then "plug & chug" to
get:
P = s x A = 75,000 x .149 = 11,175 pounds.
This will work very nicely in the case of a member being loaded in
tension. If that member is a slender bar, shaft, tube, etc., however, column
buckling equations come into play.
If the member is a strut at an angle.... we must first apply a little Trig
to determine the vector load on the member prior to determining the load
carrying capacity of that member.
Hope this helps.
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268647#268647
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop choices for A-65 |
I have used 2 props, 72x42 with, for me, satisfactory results. A
compromise between climb and cruise Note that Sensenich wood props in
Catalogs for a 65 Cont. are listed as 72x42 for a std. prop and 72x44
for a cruise prop.--Jim Lagowski, NX221PT ( sometimes known as one Piet)
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 7:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Good morning all,
There will be an A-65-8 making it's way to our shop in a couple of
weeks. I am contemplating it's future. It is complete, and should be a
runner; however it does not come with a prop. I would prefer to have a
wood prop on the Piet. Can those of you that have wood props flying on
A-65's on your Pietenpol's comment on the make, size, and pitch that you
are running, or you experiences in the past with varying configurations?
Thanks much, and have a good morning.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Prop choices for A-65 |
Ryan,
Have had 2 props on Felix the GN-1, A-65, plane weighs 720 lbs.
1. McCauley Met-L-Prop 74-43. Climbs good can handle pac up to 220 if is not too
hot. Cruse at 2150 68 to 70 MPH. Max RPM 2375.
2. Hegy I got from Don E. 72-44 Climbs not as good can handle pac up to 180. Curse
at 1950 72 MPH. Max RPM 2150.
Interestingly, the plane seems to get 3.8 GPH with ether prop.
I would like to have a Sensenich 72-42.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
Sent: 10/20/2009 7:59:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Good morning all,
There will be an A-65-8 making it's way to our shop in a couple of weeks. I am
contemplating it's future. It is complete, and should be a runner; however it
does not come with a prop. I would prefer to have a wood prop on the Piet. Can
those of you that have wood props flying on A-65's on your Pietenpol's comment
on the make, size, and pitch that you are running, or you experiences in the
past with varying configurations? Thanks much, and have a good morning.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
John,
If one is going to depart from the plans in such a way that most don't, for
example with the use of round tubing for wing struts instead of streamlined,
then the only way to know for sure which size tubing would be suitable is to
figure out the math and perform the calculations. You may save money on
materials, but you will have to spend the time to figure out what to
substitute.
Personally I prefer to save the time and fretting, and just go with the
plans, or consult the 80 years of empirical knowledge that have been
accumulated about how to build a Piet. The plans work, so that ought to be
option #1. If you deviate from the plans either because of the need to
address a perceived issue or maybe because materials (such as the streamline
tubing Bernard had) are no longer available, and you do not want to have to
perform the engineering to know for sure whether your change will work, then
you ought to just copy what others have done successfully. Maybe they did
the calculations, flew it, and it works. Or maybe they just eyeballed it,
flew it, and it still worked. Either way someone else bore the risk of test
flying the concept for you. Again, if not wanting to do the calculations
yourself, I would think that would be the route to go. For what it's
worth... :P
Have a good day,
Ryan
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 8:40 AM, wrote:
> Not being an engineer of any sort type or configuration or disciplines,
> rocket scientist or mathematician. The explanation is great as is sharing
> the equation. And knowing the compression factors and or forces is a really
> nice piece of information. However that assumes one knows or can anticipate
> the loading, which brings me to my question.
>
> How do we determine the loading values or amounts such that we are able to
> compare design and materials yield based upon a calculated or anticipated
> need of in flight loading ? Naturally that assumes that the need is the
> exact amount of stress applied to a particular structural member during full
> and repeated loading? What are the effects of shape, materials, laminations,
> composites and metals on their ability to support the load and resist
> failure?
>
> For me, not being math savvy, are considered complex concepts and
> calculations that are well beyond my simple math skills and aerodynamic
> calculation capabilities. I would like someone to provide a simple but
> effective way for me and other mathematically challenged builders to
> determine the efficacy of our material choices and their ability to respond
> to a range of loads without failure?
>
> In short we, correction, I speak for those of us that do not have a death
> wish but are mathematically challenged and of a mature age who just want to
> fly a safe aircraft, how do we determine those factors pre test flight
> rather then post or during test flight activities? I suspect that learning
> about catastrophic material failure during a test flight is not a good thing
> and may be subject to screwing up ones entire day.
>
> John
>
> In a message dated 10/20/2009 12:33:26 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> tkreiner(at)gmail.com writes:
>
>
> Guys,
>
> As a Consulting Mechanical Engineer, I'm going to jump in here, and make a
> few observations, as not all of us have the same background.
>
> When a stressed member is being discussed, it might be helpful to add the
> equations needed so anyone can use them in the future. In the case of the
> struts being discussed, we have several concepts which, although understood
> by engineers and those really familiar with the issue being discussed, can
> become confusing and/or confused.
>
> First, the Yield Strength of 4130 is somewhat less than the 95,000 psi
> given. It turns out that 95,000 psi is generally given as the Ultimate
> Strength of 4130. The Yield Strength, however, defined to be that level of
> stress at which permanent deformation (stretching) takes place, is around
> 75,000 psi. (When doing stress calculations, most engineers will use the
> Yield Strength, not the Ultimate, or breaking strength. We not only don't
> want the member to permanently stretch, we damn sure don't want it to break.
> )
>
> The equation describing the strength of any member in tension, and a
> limited amount of cases in compression, is:
>
> s = P/A, where s is the Yield Strength, P is the load in pounds, and
> A is the cross-sectional area of the member.
>
> In the case of the strut in the discussion, we are looking for the load the
> member will carry, so we rearrange the equation, then "plug & chug" to get:
>
> P = s x A = 75,000 x .149 = 11,175 pounds.
>
> This will work very nicely in the case of a member being loaded in
> tension. If that member is a slender bar, shaft, tube, etc., however,
> column buckling equations come into play.
>
> If the member is a strut at an angle.... we must first apply a little Trig
> to determine the vector load on the member prior to determining the load
> carrying capacity of that member.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> --------
> Tom Kreiner
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268647#268647==============================================
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
> ================================================ - List
> Contribution Web Site sp;
> ==================================================
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
Ryan,
Thanks for the info.
Actually the question was more to what are the calculations in a simple
format. I will spend the time doing them if I knew what to do.
Although being an admitted plan deviate offender, motivated,not for money
or weight but for style and appearance preferences. I really wasn't asking
for someone to do my work for me but rather to point me in the right
direction with an equation that I can use myself or with little coaching to make
those calculations for my own theoretical piece of mind.
As a safety professional for more than 30 years in the discipline and 15 or
so in consulting I have always advocated a simple but effective
operational model, " never expect someone else to do what you are not willing
to do
yourself". The philosophy has served me well and has protected many people
from accident, injury, occupational illness and the inadvertent acts or
errant and emotionally unstable individuals.
But still not an engineer, rocket scientist, mathematical genius or
marathon runner, always a good idea to know and live within ones physical and
intellectual limitations.
John
In a message dated 10/20/2009 10:40:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rmueller23(at)gmail.com writes:
John,
If one is going to depart from the plans in such a way that most don't,
for example with the use of round tubing for wing struts instead of
streamlined, then the only way to know for sure which size tubing would be suitable
is to figure out the math and perform the calculations. You may save money
on materials, but you will have to spend the time to figure out what to
substitute.
Personally I prefer to save the time and fretting, and just go with the
plans, or consult the 80 years of empirical knowledge that have been
accumulated about how to build a Piet. The plans work, so that ought to be option
#1. If you deviate from the plans either because of the need to address a
perceived issue or maybe because materials (such as the streamline tubing
Bernard had) are no longer available, and you do not want to have to perform
the engineering to know for sure whether your change will work, then you
ought to just copy what others have done successfully. Maybe they did the
calculations, flew it, and it works. Or maybe they just eyeballed it, flew it,
and it still worked. Either way someone else bore the risk of test flying
the concept for you. Again, if not wanting to do the calculations yourself, I
would think that would be the route to go. For what it's worth... :P
Have a good day,
Ryan
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 8:40 AM, <_AMsafetyC(at)aol.com_
(mailto:AMsafetyC(at)aol.com) > wrote:
Not being an engineer of any sort type or configuration or disciplines,
rocket scientist or mathematician. The explanation is great as is sharing the
equation. And knowing the compression factors and or forces is a really
nice piece of information. However that assumes one knows or can anticipate
the loading, which brings me to my question.
How do we determine the loading values or amounts such that we are able to
compare design and materials yield based upon a calculated or anticipated
need of in flight loading ? Naturally that assumes that the need is the
exact amount of stress applied to a particular structural member during full
and repeated loading? What are the effects of shape, materials,
laminations, composites and metals on their ability to support the load and resist
failure?
For me, not being math savvy, are considered complex concepts and
calculations that are well beyond my simple math skills and aerodynamic calculation
capabilities. I would like someone to provide a simple but effective way
for me and other mathematically challenged builders to determine the
efficacy of our material choices and their ability to respond to a range of loads
without failure?
In short we, correction, I speak for those of us that do not have a death
wish but are mathematically challenged and of a mature age who just want to
fly a safe aircraft, how do we determine those factors pre test flight
rather then post or during test flight activities? I suspect that learning
about catastrophic material failure during a test flight is not a good thing
and may be subject to screwing up ones entire day.
John
In a message dated 10/20/2009 12:33:26 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_tkreiner(at)gmail.com_ (mailto:tkreiner(at)gmail.com) writes:
(mailto:tkreiner(at)gmail.com) >
Guys,
As a Consulting Mechanical Engineer, I'm going to jump in here, and make a
few observations, as not all of us have the same background.
When a stressed member is being discussed, it might be helpful to add the
equations needed so anyone can use them in the future. In the case of the
struts being discussed, we have several concepts which, although
understood by engineers and those really familiar with the issue being discussed,
can become confusing and/or confused.
First, the Yield Strength of 4130 is somewhat less than the 95,000 psi
given. It turns out that 95,000 psi is generally given as the Ultimate
Strength of 4130. The Yield Strength, however, defined to be that level of
stress at which permanent deformation (stretching) takes place, is around
75,000 psi. (When doing stress calculations, most engineers will use the Yield
Strength, not the Ultimate, or breaking strength. We not only don't want
the member to permanently stretch, we damn sure don't want it to break. )
The equation describing the strength of any member in tension, and a
limited amount of cases in compression, is:
s = P/A, where s is the Yield Strength, P is the load in pounds, and A is
the cross-sectional area of the member.
In the case of the strut in the discussion, we are looking for the load
the member will carry, so we rearrange the equation, then "plug & chug" to
get:
P = s x A = 75,000 x .149 = 11,175 pounds.
This will work very nicely in the case of a member being loaded in
tension. If that member is a slender bar, shaft, tube, etc., however, column
buckling equations come into play.
If the member is a strut at an angle.... we must first apply a little Trig
to determine the vector load on the member prior to determining the load
carrying capacity of that member.
Hope this helps.
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
_http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268647#268647=================
====_
(http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268647#268647======================)
Use the ties Day ======================= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
======================= - List Contribution Web Site sp;
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
John,
I'm with you. I am also a "deviate" for the purpose of style and appearance
(for my Piet, that is). It would be very nice to have all the math and
engineering to back up my ideas (wood cabanes and struts). Clif Dawson sent
me some interesting calc's that confirmed that wood cabanes were indeed well
within the safe limits. But I know just enough to be dangerous, such as:
What are the effects of side-ways loads? Compression? What are the
contributions of the cables to compliment the struts? The latter alone
brings up a whole bunch of other calculations, merely showing that the
struts certainly do not act alone.
In the end, I followed Ryan's sage advice and just copied what has shown to
be successful. Too bad I haven't followed that same advice on the financial
end. My model is: Buy high.sell cheap! Someday it may pay off - who knows?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
Ryan,
Thanks for the info.
Actually the question was more to what are the calculations in a simple
format. I will spend the time doing them if I knew what to do.
Although being an admitted plan deviate offender, motivated,not for money or
weight but for style and appearance preferences. I really wasn't asking for
someone to do my work for me but rather to point me in the right direction
with an equation that I can use myself or with little coaching to make those
calculations for my own theoretical piece of mind.
As a safety professional for more than 30 years in the discipline and 15 or
so in consulting I have always advocated a simple but effective operational
model, " never expect someone else to do what you are not willing to do
yourself". The philosophy has served me well and has protected many people
from accident, injury, occupational illness and the inadvertent acts or
errant and emotionally unstable individuals.
But still not an engineer, rocket scientist, mathematical genius or marathon
runner, always a good idea to know and live within ones physical and
intellectual limitations.
John
In a message dated 10/20/2009 10:40:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rmueller23(at)gmail.com writes:
John,
If one is going to depart from the plans in such a way that most don't, for
example with the use of round tubing for wing struts instead of streamlined,
then the only way to know for sure which size tubing would be suitable is to
figure out the math and perform the calculations. You may save money on
materials, but you will have to spend the time to figure out what to
substitute.
Personally I prefer to save the time and fretting, and just go with the
plans, or consult the 80 years of empirical knowledge that have been
accumulated about how to build a Piet. The plans work, so that ought to be
option #1. If you deviate from the plans either because of the need to
address a perceived issue or maybe because materials (such as the streamline
tubing Bernard had) are no longer available, and you do not want to have to
perform the engineering to know for sure whether your change will work, then
you ought to just copy what others have done successfully. Maybe they did
the calculations, flew it, and it works. Or maybe they just eyeballed it,
flew it, and it still worked. Either way someone else bore the risk of test
flying the concept for you. Again, if not wanting to do the calculations
yourself, I would think that would be the route to go. For what it's
worth... :P
Have a good day,
Ryan
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 8:40 AM, wrote:
Not being an engineer of any sort type or configuration or disciplines,
rocket scientist or mathematician. The explanation is great as is sharing
the equation. And knowing the compression factors and or forces is a really
nice piece of information. However that assumes one knows or can anticipate
the loading, which brings me to my question.
How do we determine the loading values or amounts such that we are able to
compare design and materials yield based upon a calculated or anticipated
need of in flight loading ? Naturally that assumes that the need is the
exact amount of stress applied to a particular structural member during full
and repeated loading? What are the effects of shape, materials, laminations,
composites and metals on their ability to support the load and resist
failure?
For me, not being math savvy, are considered complex concepts and
calculations that are well beyond my simple math skills and aerodynamic
calculation capabilities. I would like someone to provide a simple but
effective way for me and other mathematically challenged builders to
determine the efficacy of our material choices and their ability to respond
to a range of loads without failure?
In short we, correction, I speak for those of us that do not have a death
wish but are mathematically challenged and of a mature age who just want to
fly a safe aircraft, how do we determine those factors pre test flight
rather then post or during test flight activities? I suspect that learning
about catastrophic material failure during a test flight is not a good thing
and may be subject to screwing up ones entire day.
John
In a message dated 10/20/2009 12:33:26 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
tkreiner(at)gmail.com writes:
Guys,
As a Consulting Mechanical Engineer, I'm going to jump in here, and make a
few observations, as not all of us have the same background.
When a stressed member is being discussed, it might be helpful to add the
equations needed so anyone can use them in the future. In the case of the
struts being discussed, we have several concepts which, although understood
by engineers and those really familiar with the issue being discussed, can
become confusing and/or confused.
First, the Yield Strength of 4130 is somewhat less than the 95,000 psi
given. It turns out that 95,000 psi is generally given as the Ultimate
Strength of 4130. The Yield Strength, however, defined to be that level of
stress at which permanent deformation (stretching) takes place, is around
75,000 psi. (When doing stress calculations, most engineers will use the
Yield Strength, not the Ultimate, or breaking strength. We not only don't
want the member to permanently stretch, we damn sure don't want it to break.
)
The equation describing the strength of any member in tension, and a limited
amount of cases in compression, is:
s = P/A, where s is the Yield Strength, P is the load in pounds, and
A is the cross-sectional area of the member.
In the case of the strut in the discussion, we are looking for the load the
member will carry, so we rearrange the equation, then "plug & chug" to get:
P = s x A = 75,000 x .149 = 11,175 pounds.
This will work very nicely in the case of a member being loaded in tension.
If that member is a slender bar, shaft, tube, etc., however, column
buckling equations come into play.
If the member is a strut at an angle.... we must first apply a little Trig
to determine the vector load on the member prior to determining the load
carrying capacity of that member.
Hope this helps.
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268647#268647==================
==
Use the ties Day ======================= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
======================= - List Contribution Web Site sp;
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
Gary,
That's the flaw in the logic, its buy high, sell low and make it up in
volume!
Actually I am using wood for the lift struts, cabanes and landing gear
laminated with metal inserts at connection points that are slightly more
stout
than streamline tubing. There are some of those flying so empirical
information may be available I again would like to see how those values
are
calculated for my own edification and piece of mind. That being said they
look
great!
I have pics of the lift struts and landing gear, not great looking form th
e
pic but impressive in person. The cabanes have stainless tubing embedded
to add metallic strength but also to conceal utilities, plumbing and wiri
ng.
got to reduce the drag hide the junk and build a more attractive cleaner
piet.
All the exterior wood is being finished by that polyurethane top coat I
bought from Rick, wow that stuff is really nice and with a number of coats
I
suspect it will be bullet proof. My spray technique and paint area is stil
l
in need of technique perfection and technological advancements but that
again is an in time issue. for the moment I am getting a good coat on the
wood
to protect of from shop hazards, oils colorants and greasy fingered
grandson shop assistants who at the ripe old age of 4.999 years will more
then
likely insist upon being awarded the repairman's certificate..
John
In a message dated 10/20/2009 11:43:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
gboothe5(at)comcast.net writes:
John,
I=99m with you. I am also a =9Cdeviate=9D for the purpo
se of style and
appearance (for my Piet, that is). It would be very nice to have all the
math and
engineering to back up my ideas (wood cabanes and struts). Clif Dawson se
nt
me some interesting calc=99s that confirmed that wood cabanes were
indeed
well within the safe limits. But I know just enough to be dangerous, such
as:
What are the effects of side-ways loads? Compression? What are the
contributions of the cables to compliment the struts? The latter alone br
ings up a
whole bunch of other calculations, merely showing that the struts
certainly do not act alone.
In the end, I followed Ryan=99s sage advice and just copied what ha
s shown
to be successful. Too bad I haven=99t followed that same advice on
the
financial end. My model is: Buy highsell cheap! Someday it may
pay off =93 who
knows?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down)
____________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC
@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
Ryan,
Thanks for the info.
Actually the question was more to what are the calculations in a simple
format. I will spend the time doing them if I knew what to do.
Although being an admitted plan deviate offender, motivated,not for money
or weight but for style and appearance preferences. I really wasn't askin
g
for someone to do my work for me but rather to point me in the right
direction with an equation that I can use myself or with little coaching
to make
those calculations for my own theoretical piece of mind.
As a safety professional for more than 30 years in the discipline and 15
or so in consulting I have always advocated a simple but effective
operational model, " never expect someone else to do what you are not wil
ling to do
yourself". The philosophy has served me well and has protected many peopl
e
from accident, injury, occupational illness and the inadvertent acts or
errant and emotionally unstable individuals.
But still not an engineer, rocket scientist, mathematical genius or
marathon runner, always a good idea to know and live within ones physical
and
intellectual limitations.
John
In a message dated 10/20/2009 10:40:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rmueller23(at)gmail.com writes:
John,
If one is going to depart from the plans in such a way that most don't,
for example with the use of round tubing for wing struts instead of
streamlined, then the only way to know for sure which size tubing would
be suitable
is to figure out the math and perform the calculations. You may save mone
y
on materials, but you will have to spend the time to figure out what to
substitute.
Personally I prefer to save the time and fretting, and just go with the
plans, or consult the 80 years of empirical knowledge that have been
accumulated about how to build a Piet. The plans work, so that ought to
be option
#1. If you deviate from the plans either because of the need to address
a
perceived issue or maybe because materials (such as the streamline tubing
Bernard had) are no longer available, and you do not want to have to perf
orm
the engineering to know for sure whether your change will work, then you
ought to just copy what others have done successfully. Maybe they did the
calculations, flew it, and it works. Or maybe they just eyeballed it, fle
w it,
and it still worked. Either way someone else bore the risk of test flying
the concept for you. Again, if not wanting to do the calculations yoursel
f,
I would think that would be the route to go. For what it's worth... :P
Have a good day,
Ryan
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 8:40 AM, <_AMsafetyC(at)aol.com_
(mailto:AMsafetyC(at)aol.com) > wrote:
Not being an engineer of any sort type or configuration or disciplines,
rocket scientist or mathematician. The explanation is great as is sharing
the
equation. And knowing the compression factors and or forces is a really
nice piece of information. However that assumes one knows or can anticipa
te
the loading, which brings me to my question.
How do we determine the loading values or amounts such that we are able
to
compare design and materials yield based upon a calculated or anticipate
d
need of in flight loading ? Naturally that assumes that the need is the
exact amount of stress applied to a particular structural member during
full
and repeated loading? What are the effects of shape, materials,
laminations, composites and metals on their ability to support the load
and resist
failure?
For me, not being math savvy, are considered complex concepts and
calculations that are well beyond my simple math skills and aerodynamic
calculation
capabilities. I would like someone to provide a simple but effective way
for me and other mathematically challenged builders to determine the
efficacy of our material choices and their ability to respond to a range
of loads
without failure?
In short we, correction, I speak for those of us that do not have a death
wish but are mathematically challenged and of a mature age who just want
to fly a safe aircraft, how do we determine those factors pre test flight
rather then post or during test flight activities? I suspect that learni
ng
about catastrophic material failure during a test flight is not a good th
ing
and may be subject to screwing up ones entire day.
John
In a message dated 10/20/2009 12:33:26 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_tkreiner(at)gmail.com_ (mailto:tkreiner(at)gmail.com) writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tkreiner" <_tkreiner(at)gmail.com_
(mailto:tkreiner(at)gmail.com) >
Guys,
As a Consulting Mechanical Engineer, I'm going to jump in here, and make
a
few observations, as not all of us have the same background.
When a stressed member is being discussed, it might be helpful to add the
equations needed so anyone can use them in the future. In the case of th
e
struts being discussed, we have several concepts which, although
understood by engineers and those really familiar with the issue being di
scussed,
can become confusing and/or confused.
First, the Yield Strength of 4130 is somewhat less than the 95,000 psi
given. It turns out that 95,000 psi is generally given as the Ultimate
Strength of 4130. The Yield Strength, however, defined to be that level
of
stress at which permanent deformation (stretching) takes place, is around
75,000 psi. (When doing stress calculations, most engineers will use the
Yield
Strength, not the Ultimate, or breaking strength. We not only don't want
the member to permanently stretch, we damn sure don't want it to break.
)
The equation describing the strength of any member in tension, and a
limited amount of cases in compression, is:
s = P/A, where s is the Yield Strength, P is the load in pounds, and A
is
the cross-sectional area of the member.
In the case of the strut in the discussion, we are looking for the load
the member will carry, so we rearrange the equation, then "plug & chug"
to
get:
P = s x A = 75,000 x .149 = 11,175 pounds.
This will work very nicely in the case of a member being loaded in
tension. If that member is a slender bar, shaft, tube, etc., however,
column
buckling equations come into play.
If the member is a strut at an angle.... we must first apply a little Tri
g
to determine the vector load on the member prior to determining the load
carrying capacity of that member.
Hope this helps.
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
_http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268647#268647====
=============
====_
(http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268647#268647====
==================)
Use the ties Day ==================
===== - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=======================
- List Contribution Web Site sp;
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
========================
===========
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
========================
============
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
========================
============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
Words of wisdom!
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
John,
If one is going to depart from the plans in such a way that most
don't, for example with the use of round tubing for wing struts instead
of streamlined, then the only way to know for sure which size tubing
would be suitable is to figure out the math and perform the
calculations. You may save money on materials, but you will have to
spend the time to figure out what to substitute.
Personally I prefer to save the time and fretting, and just go with
the plans, or consult the 80 years of empirical knowledge that have been
accumulated about how to build a Piet. The plans work, so that ought to
be option #1. If you deviate from the plans either because of the need
to address a perceived issue or maybe because materials (such as the
streamline tubing Bernard had) are no longer available, and you do not
want to have to perform the engineering to know for sure whether your
change will work, then you ought to just copy what others have done
successfully. Maybe they did the calculations, flew it, and it works. Or
maybe they just eyeballed it, flew it, and it still worked. Either way
someone else bore the risk of test flying the concept for you. Again, if
not wanting to do the calculations yourself, I would think that would be
the route to go. For what it's worth... :P
Have a good day,
Ryan
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 8:40 AM, wrote:
Not being an engineer of any sort type or configuration or
disciplines, rocket scientist or mathematician. The explanation is great
as is sharing the equation. And knowing the compression factors and or
forces is a really nice piece of information. However that assumes one
knows or can anticipate the loading, which brings me to my question.
How do we determine the loading values or amounts such that we are
able to compare design and materials yield based upon a calculated or
anticipated need of in flight loading ? Naturally that assumes that the
need is the exact amount of stress applied to a particular structural
member during full and repeated loading? What are the effects of shape,
materials, laminations, composites and metals on their ability to
support the load and resist failure?
For me, not being math savvy, are considered complex concepts and
calculations that are well beyond my simple math skills and aerodynamic
calculation capabilities. I would like someone to provide a simple but
effective way for me and other mathematically challenged builders to
determine the efficacy of our material choices and their ability to
respond to a range of loads without failure?
In short we, correction, I speak for those of us that do not have a
death wish but are mathematically challenged and of a mature age who
just want to fly a safe aircraft, how do we determine those factors pre
test flight rather then post or during test flight activities? I
suspect that learning about catastrophic material failure during a test
flight is not a good thing and may be subject to screwing up ones entire
day.
John
In a message dated 10/20/2009 12:33:26 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
tkreiner(at)gmail.com writes:
Guys,
As a Consulting Mechanical Engineer, I'm going to jump in here,
and make a few observations, as not all of us have the same background.
When a stressed member is being discussed, it might be helpful to
add the equations needed so anyone can use them in the future. In the
case of the struts being discussed, we have several concepts which,
although understood by engineers and those really familiar with the
issue being discussed, can become confusing and/or confused.
First, the Yield Strength of 4130 is somewhat less than the 95,000
psi given. It turns out that 95,000 psi is generally given as the
Ultimate Strength of 4130. The Yield Strength, however, defined to be
that level of stress at which permanent deformation (stretching) takes
place, is around 75,000 psi. (When doing stress calculations, most
engineers will use the Yield Strength, not the Ultimate, or breaking
strength. We not only don't want the member to permanently stretch, we
damn sure don't want it to break. )
The equation describing the strength of any member in tension, and
a limited amount of cases in compression, is:
s = P/A, where s is the Yield Strength, P is the load in
pounds, and A is the cross-sectional area of the member.
In the case of the strut in the discussion, we are looking for the
load the member will carry, so we rearrange the equation, then "plug &
chug" to get:
P = s x A = 75,000 x .149 = 11,175 pounds.
This will work very nicely in the case of a member being loaded in
tension. If that member is a slender bar, shaft, tube, etc., however,
column buckling equations come into play.
If the member is a strut at an angle.... we must first apply a
little Trig to determine the vector load on the member prior to
determining the load carrying capacity of that member.
Hope this helps.
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268647#268647=====
================
Use the ties Day
=======================
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=======================
- List Contribution Web Site sp;
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
I'd like to add to Tom's engineering discourse. Some this is from back (OK,
waaay back) when I was studying for my Aero degree.
For a complete structural analysis of aircraft you have to understand your
component strengths for both the yield and ultimate strengths. All aircraft
have to be designed to some limit load factor. For 'normal' category
aircraft that is +3.8 g's and -1.52 g's (those numbers come from a link I
just looked up.) The FAA's certification standards require that an
additional safety factor of 1.5 be met. So to simplify, the structure (all
parts, fittings and fasteners) is designed so that all the parts stay under
the yield strength at required limit loads (+3.8, -1.52). To meet the 1.5
safety factor the loads must be recalculated at +5.9g, -2.28g. These loads
can exceed the material yield strength but cannot exceed the ultimate
strength.
Each material is different in that the spread between yield and ultimate
varies greatly as a percentage of the strength. For instance, for most
woods, the difference between yield and ultimate is pretty small. You apply
a load and not much happens until suddenly it breaks. At any time until it
breaks you can relax the load and the piece returns to it's original form
(i.e. unbends completely) Soft aluminum on the other hand has a very large
soread between yield and ultimate. It would not take much load until the
piece starts to take a permanent set, but you can add quite a bit more load
before it breaks. On top of that materials act differently in compression,
tension and shear.
What this means is that your well designed aircraft can safely go maneuver,
fly into gusts, or whatever, staying below 3.8 g's, and you can keep doing
it. However, when you start doing outside snaps in your Piet and exceed the
magic 3.8, -1.52, but stay within the 1.5 safety factor, then some
components may permanently deform, but nothing should break. You'll get
back safely on the ground, but it may be the last flight for that airplane.
Of course the Pietenpol was not designed this way. Back then they use
empirical data for many light aircraft designs. Look at something
similarly sized and with similar performance and and make your parts the
same way. Sure, calculate some basic beam bending loads on the spars and
other major parts, and call it good. This resulted in some overbuilt
airplanes. For instance look at our ribs compared to some others; 1/4" x
1/4" rib trusses. They really look flimsy after building my Piet ribs.
My philosophy for Piet building is therefore: If it's been built that way
before, safely, and on several aircraft, then it's OK. If I decide to do it
differently (size of lift struts, material substitutions, etc.) then I'll
make at least some basic load calculations. There are several old articles
in Sport Aviation (search the EAA's online archives for 'structural
analysis'). One in particular (mid 60's maybe?) specifically addresses
loads in a high wing strut braced monoplane. They show examples in a
tabular 'spreadsheet' format (long before spread sheets were invented) that
could be implemented pretty easily.
--Ken
>
> Guys,
>
> As a Consulting Mechanical Engineer, I'm going to jump in here, and make
a
> few observations, as not all of us have the same background.
>
> When a stressed member is being discussed, it might be helpful to add the
> equations needed so anyone can use them in the future. In the case of
the
> struts being discussed, we have several concepts which, although
understood
> by engineers and those really familiar with the issue being discussed,
can
> become confusing and/or confused.
>
> First, the Yield Strength of 4130 is somewhat less than the 95,000 psi
> given. It turns out that 95,000 psi is generally given as the Ultimate
> Strength of 4130. The Yield Strength, however, defined to be that level
of
> stress at which permanent deformation (stretching) takes place, is around
> 75,000 psi. (When doing stress calculations, most engineers will use the
> Yield Strength, not the Ultimate, or breaking strength. We not only
don't
> want the member to permanently stretch, we damn sure don't want it to
> break. )
>
> The equation describing the strength of any member in tension, and a
> limited amount of cases in compression, is:
>
> s = P/A, where s is the Yield Strength, P is the load in pounds,
and
> A is the cross-sectional area of the member.
>
> In the case of the strut in the discussion, we are looking for the load
the
> member will carry, so we rearrange the equation, then "plug & chug" to
get:
>
> P = s x A = 75,000 x .149 = 11,175 pounds.
>
> This will work very nicely in the case of a member being loaded in
tension.
> If that member is a slender bar, shaft, tube, etc., however, column
> buckling equations come into play.
>
> If the member is a strut at an angle.... we must first apply a little
Trig
> to determine the vector load on the member prior to determining the load
> carrying capacity of that member.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> --------
> Tom Kreiner
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268647#268647
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: strut stress |
| From: | "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs> |
CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca wrote:
> ...
> I finaly scanned them for you guys strutting about.
> ...
It was hardly readable for me, so I've run it through my OCR software, here is
the result:
---
Stress Analysis Made Painless
by Raoul J. Hoffman
Aeronautical Designing Engineer
Airplane members, subjected to axial compression loads, are called posts, columns
or struts.
No formula has yet been found which will give you the exact load permissible under
various conditions. There are two formulas commonly used for strut calculations
-- one for short struts and one for long members.
Usually, Johnson's parabolic formula is used for short struts and Euler's formula
for long struts. These formulae are based on the assumptions that the strut
is straight, of homogenous material and that the load is applied at the center
of gravity of the strut.
The formulae shown on the chart are simplified for ready use. (P) denotes the load
permissible in pounds and (A) the cross-sectional area in square inches. Therefore,
P/A will give you the average stress per square inch. (L) denotes the
free length, (r) the radius of gyration. (L/r) the slenderness ratio and (E)
the modulus of elasticity.
The modulus of elasticity is a constant factor of elongation. taken within the
elastic limit and may be expressed as the theoretical load required to elongate
a rod to twice the original length, having a cross-sectional area of one square
inch. The elastic limit is the limit of stress within which the deformation
or elongation disappears after removing the stress.
The area of cross-section is easily found by measuring. We calibrated a special
scale for the weight of a one foot length of steel tubing to use instead of tire
area. (L), the free length. is the unsupported length or the bar between the
points of inflection, or the points where the curvature of the flexed strut
reverses. The free Length of a strut, with pin ends or rounded ends, is equal
to the total length of the strut. For a strut with fixed ends (restrained), the
free length would be 50 percent of its actual length, but in airplane work
we should seldom be below 70 percent.
The radius of gyration is a factor depending on the outline and area or the strut
cross-section. These multiplication constants are noted on the chart for a
few standard strut sections. Multiply the outside dimension by the constant and
you will have the radius of gyration. always take the smaller for (r) dimension,
specially in case of a rectangular section, except when you are sure the
strut is braced or notable to deflect in the perpendicular direction.
The slenderness ratio (L/r) is the ratio of the free length of the strut to the
radius of gyration. The selection of the formula depends on the slenderness ratio,
which will also determine the average stress per square inch. Both formulae
are valid as long as the ratio of the outside dimension to the wall thickness
does not go beyond a certain value.
Estimating an engine-mount vie use the total length for the free length, even if
the ends are restrained at the connections. For fuselage members, we use 70
percent to 100 percent for the free length, depending on the judgment of the designer.
Do not go beyond a slenderness ratio of 150 for carbon steel nor beyond
180 for chrome molybdenum steel which may be subjected to an external load,
and not over 200 in case the member is protected from external load.
The minimum wall thickness for steel tubing should not be less than .035 in., except
for the rear end of a cabin or for fuselage members other than longerons
where .028 in. tubing can be used. A margin of safety of 50 percent must be maintained
throughout.
Scale No 1 on our chart shows the slenderness ratio for spruce on the lower part
and for mild carbon and chrome molybdenum on the upper part, with the corresponding
maximum loads per square inch on scale No. 4.
The calibrations for both steels over 130 are the same, involving an error of 3
percent, the percentage difference between their respective modulus of elasticity.
By following the example you are able to design your own strut by changing
the cross-sectional area of the strut until it can carry the load required.
---
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268707#268707
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
| From: | "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net> |
Go to http://www.westcoastpiet.com/construction.htm
The second link down,"Simplified Wing Stress Analysis.pdf "is probably the article
Ken is thinking about. It's a 10 meg PDF so be warned.
Chris
--------
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268709#268709
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tail feather drain holes |
| From: | "at7000ft" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Question for anyone who has finished covering. How many drain grommets did you
put on your tail feather panels and where did you put them?
Thanks
Rick, busy rib lacing.
--------
Rick Holland
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268710#268710
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Prop choices for A-65 |
I've got a Sensenich 72-42 and am not all that happy with it. I have a St
Croix 76-36 that I have never tried but will some day.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skip Gadd
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:09 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Ryan,
Have had 2 props on Felix the GN-1, A-65, plane weighs 720 lbs.
1. McCauley Met-L-Prop 74-43. Climbs good can handle pac up to 220 if is not
too hot. Cruse at 2150 68 to 70 MPH. Max RPM 2375.
2. Hegy I got from Don E. 72-44 Climbs not as good can handle pac up to 180.
Curse at 1950 72 MPH. Max RPM 2150.
Interestingly, the plane seems to get 3.8 GPH with ether prop.
I would like to have a Sensenich 72-42.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller <mailto:rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: 10/20/2009 7:59:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Good morning all,
There will be an A-65-8 making it's way to our shop in a couple of weeks. I
am contemplating it's future. It is complete, and should be a runner;
however it does not come with a prop. I would prefer to have a wood prop on
the Piet. Can those of you that have wood props flying on A-65's on your
Pietenpol's comment on the make, size, and pitch that you are running, or
you experiences in the past with varying configurations? Thanks much, and
have a good morning.
Ryan
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: strut stress |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Uhhh...
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268715#268715
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/say_what_168.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
Yes Chris, that's the one I was thinking of. You've got a lot of got stuff
referenced there.
wrote:
>
> Go to http://www.westcoastpiet.com/construction.htm
>
>
> The second link down,"Simplified Wing Stress Analysis.pdf "is probably
the
> article Ken is thinking about. It's a 10 meg PDF so be warned.
>
> Chris
>
> --------
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, CA
> WestCoastPiet.com
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268709#268709
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Prop choices for A-65 |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Dan Y. mentioned to me that a number of people (Jeff Boatright, Gene, etc)
are using Jay Anderson (Cloudcars) scimitar props, and they seem to enjoy
the performance. The scimitar props do have a nice 'antiquey' look to them.
I think 76x38 was the size they have used. Anyone with a Jay Anderson prop
care to comment? Any ground clearance issues with the longer blades?
What about the Sensenich are you not happy with, Jack?
Ryan
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Jack Phillips wrot
e:
> I=92ve got a Sensenich 72-42 and am not all that happy with it. I have
a
> St Croix 76-36 that I have never tried but will some day.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Skip Gadd
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:09 AM
>
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
>
>
> Ryan,
>
> Have had 2 props on Felix the GN-1, A-65, plane weighs 720 lbs.
>
> 1. McCauley Met-L-Prop 74-43. Climbs good can handle pac up to 220 if is
> not too hot. Cruse at 2150 68 to 70 MPH. Max RPM 2375.
>
> 2. Hegy I got from Don E. 72-44 Climbs not as good can handle pac up to
> 180. Curse at 1950 72 MPH. Max RPM 2150.
>
> Interestingly, the plane seems to get 3.8 GPH with ether prop.
>
> I would like to have a Sensenich 72-42.
>
> Skip
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Ryan Mueller
>
> *To: *pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* 10/20/2009 7:59:17 AM
>
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
>
>
> Good morning all,
>
>
> There will be an A-65-8 making it's way to our shop in a couple of weeks.
I
> am contemplating it's future. It is complete, and should be a runner;
> however it does not come with a prop. I would prefer to have a wood prop
on
> the Piet. Can those of you that have wood props flying on A-65's on your
> Pietenpol's comment on the make, size, and pitch that you are running, or
> you experiences in the past with varying configurations? Thanks much, and
> have a good morning.
>
>
> Ryan
>
> *<>*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Keyes <keyesmp(at)yahoo.com> |
I have a set of skis very similar to the picture from the West Coast Piet s
ite for my Quicksilver MXII, with one addition, small wheels for taxiing on
the pavement.- The wheels are off a snowmobile, I think, (I did not make
the skis, think aluminum pulleys with a solid rubber guide).- The skis a
re set up just like the photo that was posted, except uses heavy plastic fo
r the runner instead of wood, with a metal skid plate for reenforcement.-
The wheels protrude through the center about 1/2 inch-via-a small cut o
ut.-They work quite welll in soft snow as long as it isn't too deep, but
the wheels do dig in a bit and I'm careful about not landing on crusty snow
, for fear of breaking through.-They slip over the axle the same as in th
e photo from the West Coast Piet site.-I don't think I have a picture tha
t shows the wheels, but I can post one if anyone is interested.-
-
Matt Keyes
Richland Center, WI=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chapter 1218 Pietenpol? |
That's the first time I think I've ever seen EAAers describe successfully
completing an aircraft project in a few months as a "total failure"... what
the heck...
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:51 PM
Subject: [piet] RE: Pietenpol-List: Chapter 1218 Pietenpol?
I'm with you, dan.
That tail... UGH!
Looks like they decided to make the tail out of steel tube, but something
went awry. YUK.
Some things shouldn't be messed with.
Personally, I don't like the look of the vertical fin faired into the
fuselage on a Pietenpol. But that's just my opinion. Well, I'm probably not
the only one who thinks that (I hope).
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Mon 19/10/2009 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chapter 1218 Pietenpol?
Dan,
I am sitting here scratching my head looking at those pictures. Nothing I
see looks like a Pietenpol to me. Am I crazy? This is NOT a Pietenpol.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: strut stress |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
The text in the body of the article was not a problem to read - it's the
little stuff in the chart that's a challenge .
Bet your OCR software can't figure that stuff out.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ivan.todorovic
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 3:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: strut stress
-->
CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca wrote:
> ...
> I finaly scanned them for you guys strutting about.
> ...
It was hardly readable for me, so I've run it through my OCR software,
here is the result:
---
Stress Analysis Made Painless
by Raoul J. Hoffman
Aeronautical Designing Engineer
Airplane members...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Tunnicliffe" <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ> |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
Hi John, there is no simple equation to tell you the various loads that
a strut will see under all flight and landing conditions. However you
can get close if you make several assumptions, such as the chord wise
load distribution at maximum lift which will determine the difference in
loads that the front and rear struts will see. Also the span wise load
distribution at maximum lift which will determine the ratio of the load
shared between the main struts and the cabane struts. If you have used
longer cabane struts and some dihedral the angle of the main struts will
be different as will the tension and compression loads they see. Using a
different airfoil will change the chordwise load distribution. Building
the wing a bay longer will change the loads the lift struts see. The
weight and balance of aircraft has an influence. As you can see the
calculations need to be done for each particular aircraft. This is not
an attempt to discourage you, as I intend to use round tube for my
struts as streamline tube is difficult and expensive to get where I
live, however the math for my aircraft may not suit yours.
Regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 2:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
For me, not being math savvy, are considered complex concepts and
calculations that are well beyond my simple math skills and aerodynamic
calculation capabilities. I would like someone to provide a simple but
effective way for me and other mathematically challenged builders to
determine the efficacy of our material choices and their ability to
respond to a range of loads without failure?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: strut stress |
I've got that book stashed away somewhere at home. I'll dig it out and see
if my copy is any more readable as a scan or photo.
--Ken
wrote:
>
>
>
> The text in the body of the article was not a problem to read - it's the
> little stuff in the chart that's a challenge .
> Bet your OCR software can't figure that stuff out.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> ivan.todorovic
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 3:20 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: strut stress
>
> -->
>
>
> CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca wrote:
>> ...
>> I finaly scanned them for you guys strutting about.
>> ...
>
>
> It was hardly readable for me, so I've run it through my OCR software,
> here is the result:
>
> ---
> Stress Analysis Made Painless
>
> by Raoul J. Hoffman
> Aeronautical Designing Engineer
>
> Airplane members...
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
Not only each aircraft if they aren't built to the plans, but each of
the several loading conditions -
Stall at maneuvering speed,
Gust at max cruise,
Max gs at Vne,
And these again for negative loads. Certainly the chordwise loads change
for each of these. The spanwise loads might, too.
No one said it was easy!
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Tunnicliffe
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
Hi John, there is no simple equation to tell you the various loads
that a strut will see under all flight and landing conditions. However
you can get close if you make several assumptions, such as the chord
wise load distribution at maximum lift which will determine the
difference in loads that the front and rear struts will see. Also the
span wise load distribution at maximum lift which will determine the
ratio of the load shared between the main struts and the cabane struts.
If you have used longer cabane struts and some dihedral the angle of the
main struts will be different as will the tension and compression loads
they see. Using a different airfoil will change the chordwise load
distribution. Building the wing a bay longer will change the loads the
lift struts see. The weight and balance of aircraft has an influence. As
you can see the calculations need to be done for each particular
aircraft. This is not an attempt to discourage you, as I intend to use
round tube for my struts as streamline tube is difficult and expensive
to get where I live, however the math for my aircraft may not suit
yours.
Regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 2:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
For me, not being math savvy, are considered complex concepts and
calculations that are well beyond my simple math skills and aerodynamic
calculation capabilities. I would like someone to provide a simple but
effective way for me and other mathematically challenged builders to
determine the efficacy of our material choices and their ability to
respond to a range of loads without failure?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net> |
Ryan, here is a photo of my 76 X 38 Jay Anderson Scimitar prop. Before
it, I used a Sterba 74 X 38 which was good, but I like the Scimitar a
lot better. It "bites" very well for climb and then seems to flatens
out for cruise at 2150. Clears the ground with no problem.
We held a Aviation Day here at OM4 on the 10th of this month and had a
large number of WW II war birds plus the EAA B17, Aluminum Overcast,
show up. I put my Ol' Piet out on the ramp, just in case someone
wanted to see a real airplane. The B17 and the Piet stole the show!
Crowd loved them both. Lots of comments on both the piet and the prop.
The crew of the B17 invited me to take a flight with them and I must say
it was a thrill. I sat in the jump seat behind the pilot. I offered to
let him fly my Piet if he would let me fly the 17. He didn't answer.
Gene in Beautiful sunny Tennessee. (For the first time in several weeks
I'll have a day off tomorrow and the sun is suppose to shine. I'll
spend most of it flying N502R and the rest of it riding the Gold Wing.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Prop choices for A-65 |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hello all you good people,
When I tested my self-carved prop on my model A, I measured (with an over-
sized fish scale) the thrust to be 265 lbs. at full throttle. I would be
curious to know what others have measured, with A-65's or Corvairs or wha
tever. I understand that this is probably an unconventional way to measure
performance, but it makes a whole "lot o" sense to me, especially before
the first flight. http://s564.photobucket.com/albums/ss83/dhelsper/?actio
n=view¤t=1ststart-upmodelAwithcarvedprop.flv
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Props for A 65 |
Gene,
Your plane is a knockout, and the prop really helps the effect. I can believe
that you and the B-17 were the stars.
A couple of unrelated questions:
-- Which color white and green on your paint, is the green "Cubby Trainer Green"?
-- Do we see heat muffs on each side for rear exhausts, and if so, how plumbed,
one for carb, one for cockpit heat? Are your stacks stainless, and where sourced?
(I like your lack of merging exhausts, keeping good flow, and avoiding custom
complexity.)
(I am planning white for my wing and much metal work [have that white 2-part epoxy],
and still considering many different bright and/or darker colors for contrast.)
Tim in central TX
(still missing TN)
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene & Tammy
Sent: Oct 20, 2009 7:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Props for A 65
Ryan, here is a photo of my 76 X 38 Jay Anderson Scimitar prop. Before it, I used
a Sterba 74 X 38 which was good, but I like the Scimitar a lot better. It
"bites" very well for climb and then seems to flatens out for cruise at 2150.
Clears the ground with no problem.
We held a Aviation Day here at OM4 on the 10th of this month and had a large number
of WW II war birds plus the EAA B17, Aluminum Overcast, show up. I put
my Ol' Piet out on the ramp, just in case someone wanted to see a real airplane.
The B17 and the Piet stole the show! Crowd loved them both. Lots of comments
on both the piet and the prop. The crew of the B17 invited me to take a
flight with them and I must say it was a thrill. I sat in the jump seat behind
the pilot. I offered to let him fly my Piet if he would let me fly the 17.
He didn't answer.
Gene in Beautiful sunny Tennessee. (For the first time in several weeks I'll have
a day off tomorrow and the sun is suppose to shine. I'll spend most of it
flying N502R and the rest of it riding the Gold Wing.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
John (PM Danger),
Here I was, thinking that you wanted to know a simple method to determine whether
a certain size of round 4130 tubing could be substituted for the 1934 special
streamline tubing shown in the plans, and I was thinking about how there is
NO SIMPLE ANSWER or formula to give, and then you tell us you're talking about
wooden struts. There are so many variables (without even getting int the specifics
of your unique plane)! There's the species of wood, the "quality" of the
particular pieces of wood used, the size and shape of the struts, the thickness
and number of laminations, the glue used, not to mention the "metal inserts".
You mention that you are not an engineer. Well, as you know, I am an engineer,
but I'm not an aeronautical engineer. Despite my background, I do not feel qualified
to determine the suitability of wooden flying struts for my Piet, let alone
someone else's. I think your best option would be to track down a builder
that has successfully built and flown (for a significant amount of time) a wooden-strutted
Piet, and borrow that design (if they are willing to share it with
you).
It sounds like you have built a set of struts based on "that looks about right".
The flying struts are WAY too important to be approached in that manner. Like
you say, a catastrophic failure in flight would really screw up your day. Be
very careful with this stuff.
As much as I like the look of wooden struts I will be using steel struts on my
plane.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268755#268755
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Prop choices for A-65 |
Jack, What numbers do you get with the Sensenich? The reason I have been wanting
one is because they do pretty good on Cubs, and they are nice and fat and user
friendly for hand propping.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
Sent: 10/20/2009 4:42:50 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Ive got a Sensenich 72-42 and am not all that happy with it. I have a St Croix
76-36 that I have never tried but will some day.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skip Gadd
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:09 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Ryan,
Have had 2 props on Felix the GN-1, A-65, plane weighs 720 lbs.
1. McCauley Met-L-Prop 74-43. Climbs good can handle pac up to 220 if is not too
hot. Cruse at 2150 68 to 70 MPH. Max RPM 2375.
2. Hegy I got from Don E. 72-44 Climbs not as good can handle pac up to 180. Curse
at 1950 72 MPH. Max RPM 2150.
Interestingly, the plane seems to get 3.8 GPH with ether prop.
I would like to have a Sensenich 72-42.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
Sent: 10/20/2009 7:59:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Good morning all,
There will be an A-65-8 making it's way to our shop in a couple of weeks. I am
contemplating it's future. It is complete, and should be a runner; however it
does not come with a prop. I would prefer to have a wood prop on the Piet. Can
those of you that have wood props flying on A-65's on your Pietenpol's comment
on the make, size, and pitch that you are running, or you experiences in the
past with varying configurations? Thanks much, and have a good morning.
Ryan
<>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop choices for A-65 |
Dan,
I love the video, esp. as you do a little victory dance. I would, too. I think
your personally carved prop is just amazing. Great plane. We have seen your
cowl shots, too. You are getting so close to being done.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Oct 20, 2009 7:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Hello all you good people,
When I tested my self-carved prop on my model A, I measured (with an over-sized fish scale) the thrust to be 265 lbs. at full throttle. I would be curious to know what others have measured, with A-65's or Corvairs or whatever. I understand that this is probably an unconventional way to measure performance, but it makes a whole "lot o" sense to me, especially before the first flight. http://s564.photobucket.com/albums/ss83/dhelsper/?action=view¤t=1ststart-upmodelAwithcarvedprop.flv
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
I remember some one did this and there was a picture of the plane in the
experimenter. I'll see if I can find the issue and get your address I will
mail
the picture to you if I can find it.
Russell
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 9:44 PM, Bill Church wrote:
> billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
>
> John (PM Danger),
> Here I was, thinking that you wanted to know a simple method to determine
> whether a certain size of round 4130 tubing could be substituted for the
> 1934 special streamline tubing shown in the plans, and I was thinking about
> how there is NO SIMPLE ANSWER or formula to give, and then you tell us
> you're talking about wooden struts. There are so many variables (without
> even getting int the specifics of your unique plane)! There's the species of
> wood, the "quality" of the particular pieces of wood used, the size and
> shape of the struts, the thickness and number of laminations, the glue used,
> not to mention the "metal inserts".
> You mention that you are not an engineer. Well, as you know, I am an
> engineer, but I'm not an aeronautical engineer. Despite my background, I do
> not feel qualified to determine the suitability of wooden flying struts for
> my Piet, let alone someone else's. I think your best option would be to
> track down a builder that has successfully built and flown (for a
> significant amount of time) a wooden-strutted Piet, and borrow that design
> (if they are willing to share it with you).
> It sounds like you have built a set of struts based on "that looks about
> right". The flying struts are WAY too important to be approached in that
> manner. Like you say, a catastrophic failure in flight would really screw up
> your day. Be very careful with this stuff.
> As much as I like the look of wooden struts I will be using steel struts on
> my plane.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268755#268755
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: strut stress |
I'm running windows XP but what I'm saying here should
have an equivalent in other systems.
The article was scanned as a jpeg and sent to my picture
file. In there I can double click any image and it comes up
in it's own window. This image can then be enlarged up to
400%. So enlarging the chart till it's comfortable makes
it quite readable. For me that's 150-200%. Beyond that it
begins to get fuzzy.
Clif
Marriage is a relationship in which one person is always right and the other
is usually the husband.
>
> The text in the body of the article was not a problem to read - it's the
> little stuff in the chart that's a challenge .
> Bet your OCR software can't figure that stuff out.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Jay Anderson prop |
Ryan,
Sorry, had a long day of work and chores, but ended up at the airport
practicing wheelies in the Piet. Not a bad day!
We had a 70x38 Valley Engineering/Culver prop originally. It did OK,
giving us a solid 6-700 fpm climb with the C-85. Switched to a
Cloudcars (Jay Anderson) 76x38, which easily gave 850-900 fpm. There
is A LOT more thrust. Another "measure" is that at idle the old prop
didn't pull the plane forward. With the new prop, the plane will
actually pull up a modest hill at idle! Plus, the new prop looks cool
and sounds mean!
Our wire wheels are only 17" diameter, so with tires only 21"
diameter total. That's actually not all that tall. I wish we had 21"
wheels and 4" tires, mainly because we're not in a full stall in the
three-point attitude. Sometimes I land tailwheel first.
That said, ground clearance might be an issue for you. Check the
Bingelis books or ask the list, but I think that in level attitude on
the ground, the prop tip should be 9" above the ground. You could
easily measure this once you have the fuselage on the gear and the
engine hung.
Jay at Cloudcars was easy to work with. You can sometimes get a
discount if he already has a prop made up and he's looking to sell
fast. That's how we got the 76X38, which he bills as a climb prop for
an A65. With the C-85, it's a rocket prop. He offered to trade for
something he thought was better matched for a C-85 if we didn't like
the 76x38, but we like the climb rate and the top end revs are about
the same and produce nearly identical speeds, so we kept it and we're
very happy with it.
HTH,
Jeff
>Good afternoon Jeff,
>
>My wife and I are building a Piet up near Chicago. We were going to
>power it with a Corvair, but I stumbled across a good deal on a
>relatively low-time A-65 while looking for Cub wheels, so we went
>ahead and bought it. It was removed from a flying Cub for an engine
>upgrade. Unfortunately it does not come with a prop, so I am
>investigating our options there. A couple of people replied to a
>question on the list this AM, saying that 72x42 appears to be the
>standard Sensenich for the A65 on similar performing aircraft. Dan
>Yocum pointed out to me that you and Gene (from the list, can't
>recall the last name) both have Jay Anderson (Cloudcars) scimitar
>props, and a look in the archives confirms both that and the fact
>that you enjoy the performance.
>
>If you had a more "standard" prop on your Piet before, could you
>elaborate on the differences in performance that the Jay Anderson
>prop affords? The scimitar prop really looks sharp, and I just
>wanted to get your synopsis of how it's worked for you thus far. If
>I recall correctly, you have tall wire wheels on your Piet? Do you
>recall if there was any potential concern about ground clearance
>with a 4" longer prop than usual (assuming the 72" Sensenich is more
>'usual')? Our Piet will be wearing 800x4 Piper Cub wheels, so we may
>not have as much ground clearance when level as you do.
>
>Anyhow, any information you may be able to send our way would be
>appreciated. Thanks for your time, and have a good day.
>
>Ryan Mueller
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop choices for A-65 |
Hi Skip
I'm not Jack but I have an A-65 and Sensenich 72x42 also. I cruise at
75-76 mph, climb at 150-200 fpm.
For anyone else, Culver Props does very nice work, is very customer
responsive and much cheaper. I have one on the radial Piet.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Skip Gadd
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 8:28 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Jack, What numbers do you get with the Sensenich? The reason I have
been wanting one is because they do pretty good on Cubs, and they are
nice and fat and user friendly for hand propping.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: 10/20/2009 4:42:50 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
I've got a Sensenich 72-42 and am not all that happy with it. I
have a St Croix 76-36 that I have never tried but will some day.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skip
Gadd
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:09 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Ryan,
Have had 2 props on Felix the GN-1, A-65, plane weighs 720 lbs.
1. McCauley Met-L-Prop 74-43. Climbs good can handle pac up to 220
if is not too hot. Cruse at 2150 68 to 70 MPH. Max RPM 2375.
2. Hegy I got from Don E. 72-44 Climbs not as good can handle pac up
to 180. Curse at 1950 72 MPH. Max RPM 2150.
Interestingly, the plane seems to get 3.8 GPH with ether prop.
I would like to have a Sensenich 72-42.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: 10/20/2009 7:59:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Good morning all,
There will be an A-65-8 making it's way to our shop in a couple of
weeks. I am contemplating it's future. It is complete, and should be a
runner; however it does not come with a prop. I would prefer to have a
wood prop on the Piet. Can those of you that have wood props flying on
A-65's on your Pietenpol's comment on the make, size, and pitch that you
are running, or you experiences in the past with varying configurations?
Thanks much, and have a good morning.
Ryan
<>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail feather drain holes |
Hi Rick
I put one next to each rib and on the rudder at the very bottom point.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "at7000ft" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 2:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail feather drain holes
>
> Question for anyone who has finished covering. How many drain grommets did
> you put on your tail feather panels and where did you put them?
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick, busy rib lacing.
>
> --------
> Rick Holland
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268710#268710
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol this is a long |
one
That would be great, thanks. Not to diminish the important's of what's been
said regarding the wooden struts. I believe 2 years ago at brodhead the
Canadian Goose had wooden struts. They looked great. Mine are already made
and are 3 linear layers of wood clear white ash in the middle with black
walnut on the outer sandwich. They were laminated using the T88, clamped
straight and allowed to set cure under clamp and Jig in a square shape larger
than the streamline tubing. The lamination has metal imbedded into the middle
of the lamination at 3 locations each and at the connection point of the
jury strut to prevent the bolts from pulling out of thru or splitting out
the wood. The struts were shaped using the dimensions of the tubing in the
drawings except slightly wider and longer than the metal tubing.
Understanding the relationship of the wing to the strut and relative
loading and stresses created during normal flight. Here is where my non
engineering background really comes into play. If there wing in normal condition
exerts a static load of X lets say for argument sake x is = to 160 lbs over
all. And at 8 loading connections two at the flying strut, 2 at the jury
strut and 2 at the cabane struts that static load exerted by a non flying
wing on the struts would be Y. Lets also assume in gross numbers the fuse at
full capacity weighs 700 lbs. what is the static load on the struts?
Now that we have a static load on the struts shared by all 8 connections
not calculate the dynamic loads positive and negative or compression and
extension in flight, that value being SL. The strut load would be that amount
of weight or pressure that the strut system is required to support in and
under normal flight conditions now to calculate side loads and combined
loads to determine then highest amount of loading the struts will ever be
exposed to by an aircraft who's total weight is 1000 lbs at full load and
flying. That becomes the comparator for strut materials selection. The strut
must be capable of handling loads of a value we call UL ultimate loading.
Now we can look at the strut material separately as a beam or structural
member and either copy form the materials book the load capacity of 4130
round and streamline, T6 aluminum round pipe or streamline, composite and
laminated wood.
All of which are arbitrary values based on none other than the design
weights in the Bernerd POA specs section of the instructions. So if airplane 1
weighs 1050 at the curb how much stress will the struts be required to
safely and regularly handle?
Again not being a computer scientist, however just barely able to type a
cogent paragraph my self. We are all using a device that is not less than
10,000 times more capable sophisticated and faster than the computers used to
put a man on the moon. It sounds almost cook book type to come up with the
equations that when we builders now and in the future want to look at a
specific Piet design or system that we can punch in some easy numbers and get
out an answer from the computer.
Seems like with all the talent real and inferred that 2 engineers with
AutoCAD to model and excel to come up with a series of questions that when
answered with real data will provide an answer. At a bare minimum then the
builder can select an amount of over build as a margin of safety and have a
clue as to what's needed for his or her build.
That's where I am going with this, there is no need for each of us to try
to reinvent the wheel each time someone has an idea or a question that goes
contrary to the conventional build or design. After all we are talking
experimental here. The It Girl of the Sky put it best, " you're both starvin,
why not try to help each other"
Go in peace the service has ended
No for the other news I just got my copy of Barnstormers and watched it a n
hour ago, wow that was great I am impressed and want to be invited if I
can survive my own creative experimental endeavors and the did pay homage to
TGW when they looked towards the heavens and asked WWD? What Would Waldo Do
the answer was a resounding the show must go on!
John
In a message dated 10/20/2009 10:28:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rray032003(at)gmail.com writes:
I remember some one did this and there was a picture of the plane in the
experimenter. I'll see if I can find the issue and get your address I will
mail
the picture to you if I can find it.
Russell
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 9:44 PM, Bill Church <_billspiet(at)sympatico.ca_
(mailto:billspiet(at)sympatico.ca) > wrote:
<_billspiet(at)sympatico.ca_ (mailto:billspiet(at)sympatico.ca) >
John (PM Danger),
Here I was, thinking that you wanted to know a simple method to determine
whether a certain size of round 4130 tubing could be substituted for the
1934 special streamline tubing shown in the plans, and I was thinking about
how there is NO SIMPLE ANSWER or formula to give, and then you tell us
you're talking about wooden struts. There are so many variables (without even
getting int the specifics of your unique plane)! There's the species of wood,
the "quality" of the particular pieces of wood used, the size and shape of
the struts, the thickness and number of laminations, the glue used, not to
mention the "metal inserts".
You mention that you are not an engineer. Well, as you know, I am an
engineer, but I'm not an aeronautical engineer. Despite my background, I do not
feel qualified to determine the suitability of wooden flying struts for my
Piet, let alone someone else's. I think your best option would be to track
down a builder that has successfully built and flown (for a significant
amount of time) a wooden-strutted Piet, and borrow that design (if they are
willing to share it with you).
It sounds like you have built a set of struts based on "that looks about
right". The flying struts are WAY too important to be approached in that
manner. Like you say, a catastrophic failure in flight would really screw up
your day. Be very careful with this stuff.
As much as I like the look of wooden struts I will be using steel struts
on my plane.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
_http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268755#268755_
(http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268755#268755)
s List Un/Subscription,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Prince Q-tip prop for sale for A-75 w/tapered shaft - |
68x42
New this prop is about $1,900 according to the Prince website, it was
custom made for a Pietenpol. I'd sell it for a lot less than $1,900.
Does anyone need a prop for an A-75? It is in near new condition, and
probably has less than 100hrs on it, although I don't know the exact
number. If anyone is interested I'll take some good quality pictures,
just send me an e-mail - steve(at)wotelectronics.com. It turns about 2,500
static on my A-75 I believe.
Here is a picture from a few years ago, it is not on the plane now:
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/GN1/dsc24.jpg
Manufacturer:
http://www.princeaircraft.com/
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Perhaps NOT.
Jury struts do not affect the strength of the flying struts, in
compression.
What the jury struts do is provide lateral support for the flying
struts, which makes them more resistant to buckling. Buckling only
occurs when a member is loaded in compression.
Jury struts also reduce the likelihood of strut vibration in flight.
There's a whole science involved in determining buckling criteria, but
it basically has to do with slenderness ratios (a ratio of cross-section
to length).
Suffice to say that jury struts ARE REQUIRED on a Pietenpol or a GN-1,
built with typical streamline or round strut material.
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Ray
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
What I've read is the struts beome much stronger in compression
with jury struts. Perhaps twice as strong.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
this has probably already been said, or will be said a hundred times,
but just in case someone new has not already heard it, the jury struts
also prevent the struts from setting up a harmonic vibration that could
result in a catastrophic strut or fitting failure. The jury struts MUST
NOT be in the center of the strut in order to prevent the harmonic. If
they are in the center, the strut would vibrate equally on each side of
the jury strut, I.e. the same harmonic problem.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church<mailto:eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:31 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
Perhaps NOT.
Jury struts do not affect the strength of the flying struts, in
compression.
What the jury struts do is provide lateral support for the flying
struts, which makes them more resistant to buckling. Buckling only
occurs when a member is loaded in compression.
Jury struts also reduce the likelihood of strut vibration in flight.
There's a whole science involved in determining buckling criteria, but
it basically has to do with slenderness ratios (a ratio of cross-section
to length).
Suffice to say that jury struts ARE REQUIRED on a Pietenpol or a GN-1,
built with typical streamline or round strut material.
Bill C.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Ray
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:21 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
What I've read is the struts beome much stronger in compression
with jury struts. Perhaps twice as strong.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop choices for A-65 |
Thanks Dick,
Sounds like that would be a little better cruise and about the same climb.
I actually have a Sensenich, got it "thrown in" with an A-65 I bought last week
for the Piet I am building. The thing is, it was sold by Sensenich as "souvenier
propeller Cub style" and stamped on the back not airworthy. Which I belive
means they could not certify it. Two A&P's told me they would fly with the prop,
I haven't decided yet. There is no pitch number stamped on the prop, it is
72 inches long.
Have you killed any deer yet? If not come on down to West Virginia, we have way
more than we need.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick N.
Sent: 10/20/2009 11:05:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Hi Skip
I'm not Jack but I have an A-65 and Sensenich 72x42 also. I cruise at 75-76 mph,
climb at 150-200 fpm.
For anyone else, Culver Props does very nice work, is very customer responsive
and much cheaper. I have one on the radial Piet.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
I took that one to heart very seriously in the metal placement for the
struts such that they are set for mounting above the half point rather than
below. I do appreciate the reminder and added that tidbit to my build notes to
insure that rule was not violated. Working with wood one needs to be
really careful about throwing caution to the wind.
I plan on metal for the jury struts stainless tubing I am thinking. All
depends on price availability and fitting attachment points.
Why invite corrosion if ya don't need too, I would prefer the added weight
and strength of stainless rather than the reduction of weight of due to
corrosion. Plus it looks really kool!
John
In a message dated 10/21/2009 8:09:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
generambo(at)msn.com writes:
this has probably already been said, or will be said a hundred times, but
just in case someone new has not already heard it, the jury struts also
prevent the struts from setting up a harmonic vibration that could result in a
catastrophic strut or fitting failure. The jury struts MUST NOT be in the
center of the strut in order to prevent the harmonic. If they are in the
center, the strut would vibrate equally on each side of the jury strut,
I.e. the same harmonic problem. I
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: _Bill Church_ (mailto:eng(at)canadianrogers.com)
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:31 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
Perhaps NOT.
Jury struts do not affect the strength of the flying struts, in
compression.
What the jury struts do is provide lateral support for the flying struts,
which makes them more resistant to buckling. Buckling only occurs when a
member is loaded in compression.
Jury struts also reduce the likelihood of strut vibration in flight.
There's a whole science involved in determining buckling criteria, but it
basically has to do with slenderness ratios (a ratio of cross-section to
length).
Suffice to say that jury struts ARE REQUIRED on a Pietenpol or a GN-1,
built with typical streamline or round strut material.
Bill C.
____________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Ray
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
What I've read is the struts beome much stronger in compression
with jury struts. Perhaps twice as strong.
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pie
tenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Prop choices for A-65 |
I get about 2100 RPM static, and 2150 on climb. Full throttle level
flight
I can't quite get to 2350 redline. Solo climb on a cool day I get about
400
fpm. I'd like to at least have to throttle back in level flight to
prevent
exceeding the redline. With a passenger on a hot day I get about 100 -
150
fpm
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skip
Gadd
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:28 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Jack, What numbers do you get with the Sensenich? The reason I have been
wanting one is because they do pretty good on Cubs, and they are nice
and
fat and user friendly for hand propping.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Phillips
Sent: 10/20/2009 4:42:50 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
I=12ve got a Sensenich 72-42 and am not all that happy with it. I have
a St
Croix 76-36 that I have never tried but will some day.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skip
Gadd
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:09 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Ryan,
Have had 2 props on Felix the GN-1, A-65, plane weighs 720 lbs.
1. McCauley Met-L-Prop 74-43. Climbs good can handle pac up to 220 if is
not
too hot. Cruse at 2150 68 to 70 MPH. Max RPM 2375.
2. Hegy I got from Don E. 72-44 Climbs not as good can handle pac up to
180.
Curse at 1950 72 MPH. Max RPM 2150.
Interestingly, the plane seems to get 3.8 GPH with ether prop.
I would like to have a Sensenich 72-42.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller <mailto:rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: 10/20/2009 7:59:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Good morning all,
There will be an A-65-8 making it's way to our shop in a couple of
weeks. I
am contemplating it's future. It is complete, and should be a runner;
however it does not come with a prop. I would prefer to have a wood prop
on
the Piet. Can those of you that have wood props flying on A-65's on your
Pietenpol's comment on the make, size, and pitch that you are running,
or
you experiences in the past with varying configurations? Thanks much,
and
have a good morning.
Ryan
<>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Prop choices for A-65 |
Thanks Jack, Geez, if I could get your RPM and climb numbers and Dicks MPH numbers
I would be happy.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
Sent: 10/21/2009 9:15:24 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
I get about 2100 RPM static, and 2150 on climb. Full throttle level flight I cant
quite get to 2350 redline. Solo climb on a cool day I get about 400 fpm.
Id like to at least have to throttle back in level flight to prevent exceeding
the redline. With a passenger on a hot day I get about 100 - 150 fpm
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skip Gadd
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:28 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Jack, What numbers do you get with the Sensenich? The reason I have been wanting
one is because they do pretty good on Cubs, and they are nice and fat and user
friendly for hand propping.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
Sent: 10/20/2009 4:42:50 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Ive got a Sensenich 72-42 and am not all that happy with it. I have a St Croix
76-36 that I have never tried but will some day.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skip Gadd
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:09 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Ryan,
Have had 2 props on Felix the GN-1, A-65, plane weighs 720 lbs.
1. McCauley Met-L-Prop 74-43. Climbs good can handle pac up to 220 if is not too
hot. Cruse at 2150 68 to 70 MPH. Max RPM 2375.
2. Hegy I got from Don E. 72-44 Climbs not as good can handle pac up to 180. Curse
at 1950 72 MPH. Max RPM 2150.
Interestingly, the plane seems to get 3.8 GPH with ether prop.
I would like to have a Sensenich 72-42.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
Sent: 10/20/2009 7:59:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Good morning all,
There will be an A-65-8 making it's way to our shop in a couple of weeks. I am
contemplating it's future. It is complete, and should be a runner; however it
does not come with a prop. I would prefer to have a wood prop on the Piet. Can
those of you that have wood props flying on A-65's on your Pietenpol's comment
on the make, size, and pitch that you are running, or you experiences in the
past with varying configurations? Thanks much, and have a good morning.
Ryan
<>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Props for A 65 |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks for the info Gene. You have a sharp looking Piet there, and the prop
really sets it off. What speed do you see for cruising at 2150?
Ryan
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Gene & Tammy wrote:
> Ryan, here is a photo of my 76 X 38 Jay Anderson Scimitar prop. Before
> it, I used a Sterba 74 X 38 which was good, but I like the Scimitar a lot
> better. It "bites" very well for climb and then seems to flatens out for
> cruise at 2150. Clears the ground with no problem.
> We held a Aviation Day here at OM4 on the 10th of this month and had a
> large number of WW II war birds plus the EAA B17, Aluminum Overcast, show
> up. I put my Ol' Piet out on the ramp, just in case someone wanted to see
> a real airplane. The B17 and the Piet stole the show! Crowd loved them
> both. Lots of comments on both the piet and the prop. The crew of the B17
> invited me to take a flight with them and I must say it was a thrill. I sat
> in the jump seat behind the pilot. I offered to let him fly my Piet if he
> would let me fly the 17. He didn't answer.
> Gene in Beautiful sunny Tennessee. (For the first time in several weeks
> I'll have a day off tomorrow and the sun is suppose to shine. I'll spend
> most of it flying N502R and the rest of it riding the Gold Wing.)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
FYI, most stainless tubing is 300 series annealed. That stuff has a
strength considerably less than normalized 4130. And its yield strength
is less than 6061-T6 aluminum.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
I took that one to heart very seriously in the metal placement for the
struts such that they are set for mounting above the half point rather
than below. I do appreciate the reminder and added that tidbit to my
build notes to insure that rule was not violated. Working with wood one
needs to be really careful about throwing caution to the wind.
I plan on metal for the jury struts stainless tubing I am thinking.
All depends on price availability and fitting attachment points.
Why invite corrosion if ya don't need too, I would prefer the added
weight and strength of stainless rather than the reduction of weight of
due to corrosion. Plus it looks really kool!
John
In a message dated 10/21/2009 8:09:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
generambo(at)msn.com writes:
this has probably already been said, or will be said a hundred
times, but just in case someone new has not already heard it, the jury
struts also prevent the struts from setting up a harmonic vibration that
could result in a catastrophic strut or fitting failure. The jury
struts MUST NOT be in the center of the strut in order to prevent the
harmonic. If they are in the center, the strut would vibrate equally on
each side of the jury strut, I.e. the same harmonic problem. I
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:31 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
Perhaps NOT.
Jury struts do not affect the strength of the flying struts, in
compression.
What the jury struts do is provide lateral support for the flying
struts, which makes them more resistant to buckling. Buckling only
occurs when a member is loaded in compression.
Jury struts also reduce the likelihood of strut vibration in
flight.
There's a whole science involved in determining buckling criteria,
but it basically has to do with slenderness ratios (a ratio of
cross-section to length).
Suffice to say that jury struts ARE REQUIRED on a Pietenpol or a
GN-1, built with typical streamline or round strut material.
Bill C.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Ray
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:21 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
What I've read is the struts beome much stronger in compression
with jury struts. Perhaps twice as strong.
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar> |
| Subject: | lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
Hi Jon,
-
I don't know if I-can help you, since our Piet is not flying, but we have
-round lift struts, 1"OD .049 wall, 1025 steel.- That's stronger than n
ecessary.
Saludos
-
Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con
Yahoo! Cocina.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop choices for A-65 |
Skip
Got 1 deer in early season so far. Regular season opens Nov 5.
Good to hear you are making progress on the Piet project.
I'm starting to look forward to Sun n Fun, now that winter is coming in.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Skip Gadd
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Thanks Dick,
Sounds like that would be a little better cruise and about the same
climb.
I actually have a Sensenich, got it "thrown in" with an A-65 I bought
last week for the Piet I am building. The thing is, it was sold by
Sensenich as "souvenier propeller Cub style" and stamped on the back not
airworthy. Which I belive means they could not certify it. Two A&P's
told me they would fly with the prop, I haven't decided yet. There is no
pitch number stamped on the prop, it is 72 inches long.
Have you killed any deer yet? If not come on down to West Virginia, we
have way more than we need.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick N.
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: 10/20/2009 11:05:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
Hi Skip
I'm not Jack but I have an A-65 and Sensenich 72x42 also. I cruise
at 75-76 mph, climb at 150-200 fpm.
For anyone else, Culver Props does very nice work, is very customer
responsive and much cheaper. I have one on the radial Piet.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Santago,
Are you going to use balsa to streamline your struts?
Saludos,
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Sent: Wed, Oct 21, 2009 10:40 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol
Hi Jon,
I don't know if I can help you, since our Piet is not flying, but we have
round lift struts, 1"OD .049 wall, 1025 steel. That's stronger than nece
ssary.
Saludos
Santiago
Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.
http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
========================
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
Probably one of the more exciting days in a 5 year Pietenpol build!
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Still hoping to fly in 09
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: We have wings! |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Congrats Ben!!!!! Way to go. Your airplane looks awesome and begs to fly!
!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wed, Oct 21, 2009 12:16 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: We have wings!
Probably one of the more exciting days in a 5 year Pietenpol build!
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Still hoping to fly in 09
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: We have wings! |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
WOW! That's cool.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268833#268833
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: We have wings! |
Exciting for the rest of us too!! Congrats!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Oct 21, 2009 1:16 PM
>To: Pietenpol list
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: We have wings!
>
>Probably one of the more exciting days in a 5 year Pietenpol build!
>Ben Charvet
>Mims, Fl
>Still hoping to fly in 09
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: We have wings! |
She looks great congratulations!
You got to love it when a plan comes together
John
In a message dated 10/21/2009 1:33:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net writes:
Probably one of the more exciting days in a 5 year Pietenpol build!
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Still hoping to fly in 09
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: We have wings! |
Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Congratulations Ben. She's a beauty! I like the cowling, and the nice
> smooth transition to the air filter. Can you provide some more info on
> the cowling and how you constructed it?
>
> Again, great job. Have a good day,
>
The cowl is made of fiberglass and took 2 months to complete. I bolted
an old A-65 block to the motor mounts and inserted a piece of pvc into
the crankshaft hole to locate where the prop would be. Then I put a few
plywood frames around the engine and stapled wire lath to that. Next I
layed on layers of drywall mud until I had the general shape. Lots of
sanding, and I used two 5 gallon buckets of drywall mud. the thing was
so heavy I had to weight the tail to keep it from taking a nose dive.
After I had the basic male plug mold, I waxed it up real good and layed
5 layers of fiberglass cloth with polyester resin. Next itwas all
block sanded, bondo'd etc, like doing body work on your car. It really
turned out pretty nice and I hope it holds up, cause if anything happens
to it I'll replace it with something simpler made of aluminum!
Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Ohio Fall Colors |
Well I got the spider out of my pants, I mean fuel gauge and went flying to
day.- The fall colors look like they have peaked here in central Ohio, an
d it was in the 70's today, so flying doesn't get too much better than that
.- The old Corvair is running great, and pulls the Piet around at an hone
st 80mph, and about 4.5-4.8 gph.- It is always supprising here in the mid
west around harvest time to see how far spread the dust is when hundreds of
combines are out cuting off beans, and corn as far as you can see.- Toni
ght the dust was as far as I could see, and just looks like a light haze.
-- Looking down at the fields below it is always tempting to go surpriz
e the farmer on the tractor with a buzz job, but with my luck it would be a
n off duty faa guy with a keen eye for tail numbers, so I just fly along at
500 ft and enjoy waving to the people who look up.-
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio |
Hello Group, I have been thinking of having a pietenpol gathering here at m
y home airport, and am wondering how many interested people there might be.
- I was thinking about- next June.- We have plenty of runway and park
ing, camping if anyone wanted to, and posibly even shower facilities (might
be able to talk Bill into using his bunkhouse in his hanger).- It would
not be a huge event, just a local gathering of the ohio area Pietenpol guys
, or anyone else that wanted to fly in.- If any of you are interested let
me know so I can plan accordingly.- If there is enough interest I will p
lan further, if not oh well.- The airport Ident is OH71, and is located 1
mile s/w of the town of Centerburg Ohio.- This is just a shoot from the
hip idea, and one I have been wanting to do for a little while, since movin
g in here.- It would be nice to have a gathering close enough that it wou
ld only be about 2hr or less flight for most guys in the general area.- I
t
would be nice to have fun, fly home, and sleep in your own bed.- Let me
know if anyone is intrested.
-
Shad- "Spiderman" Bell=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: We have wings! |
Nice looking airplane!, Too bad about the gator flag in the- background t
hough.- Just kidding OSU ain't looking too impresive this year.- Just w
ondering what your lift struts are from.- Kind of look like modified trip
acer struts.- I have an old-set and have wondered about using them in t
he future if I ever Build a piet.
-
Shad
In sunny Ohio (at least for the next couple days)=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio |
I have an interest, even 'tho I'm in N.W. Michigan. Where is
Centerberg?-Jim Lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 8:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio
Hello Group, I have been thinking of having a pietenpol
gathering here at my home airport, and am wondering how many interested
people there might be. I was thinking about next June. We have plenty
of runway and parking, camping if anyone wanted to, and posibly even
shower facilities (might be able to talk Bill into using his bunkhouse
in his hanger). It would not be a huge event, just a local gathering of
the ohio area Pietenpol guys, or anyone else that wanted to fly in. If
any of you are interested let me know so I can plan accordingly. If
there is enough interest I will plan further, if not oh well. The
airport Ident is OH71, and is located 1 mile s/w of the town of
Centerburg Ohio. This is just a shoot from the hip idea, and one I have
been wanting to do for a little while, since moving in here. It would
be nice to have a gathering close enough that it would only be about 2hr
or less flight for most guys in the general area. It would be nice to
have fun, fly home, and sleep in your own bed. Let me know if anyone is
intrested.
Shad "Spiderman" Bell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: We have wings! |
She looks like the red baron!!!! I have snoopy on my tail feathers so look
out-- LOL!!!Nice and clean looking aircraft,a real beauty!!!=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellso
uth.net>=0ATo: Pietenpol list =0ASent: Wed, O
ctober 21, 2009 1:16:47 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: We have wings!=0A=0AP
robably one of the more exciting days in a 5 year Pietenpol build!=0ABen Ch
arvet=0AMims, Fl=0AStill hoping to fly in 09
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio |
Maybe 2 from Hales Landing, outside chance 3.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
Sent: 10/21/2009 8:58:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio
Hello Group, I have been thinking of having a pietenpol gathering here at my home
airport, and am wondering how many interested people there might be. I was
thinking about next June. We have plenty of runway and parking, camping if
anyone wanted to, and posibly even shower facilities (might be able to talk Bill
into using his bunkhouse in his hanger). It would not be a huge event, just
a local gathering of the ohio area Pietenpol guys, or anyone else that wanted
to fly in. If any of you are interested let me know so I can plan accordingly.
If there is enough interest I will plan further, if not oh well. The airport
Ident is OH71, and is located 1 mile s/w of the town of Centerburg Ohio.
This is just a shoot from the hip idea, and one I have been wanting to do for
a little while, since moving in here. It would be nice to have a gathering close
enough that it would only be about 2hr or less flight for most guys in the
general area. It would be nice to have fun, fly ho
me, and sleep in your own bed. Let me know if anyone is intrested.
Shad "Spiderman" Bell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: We have wings! |
do you have a pictured about these plane I like to see my I think looks lik
e the black falcon from fly boys seyou jorge from hanford
--- On Wed, 10/21/09, H RULE wrote:
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: We have wings!
Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 7:15 PM
She looks like the red baron!!!! I have snoopy on my tail feathers so look
out-- LOL!!!Nice and clean looking aircraft,a real beauty!!!
=0A
=0A=0A=0AFrom: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wed, October 21, 2009 1:16:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: We have wings!
Probably one of the more exciting days in a 5 year Pietenpol build!
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Still hoping to fly in 09
=0A
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: We have wings! |
What a good looking Piet Ben. You should be excited and happy; love the colors
too (red is my favorite).
Jim B.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
On Oct 21, 2009, Ben Charvet wrote:
Probably one of the more exciting days in a 5 year Pietenpol build!
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Still hoping to fly in 09
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net> |
| Subject: | Re: We have wings! |
Awsome Bird!!
Gene
Tennessee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 12:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: We have wings!
> Probably one of the more exciting days in a 5 year Pietenpol build!
> Ben Charvet
> Mims, Fl
> Still hoping to fly in 09
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
18:42:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Props for A 65 |
Thanks Ryan,
As an average, I show 76 mph. I measured my prop from ground to tip
while my bird was in flight attitude and I have 8.5" of clearance.
I was more interested in climb than I was in speed (the Piet is such a
fast ship a few extra mph just doesn't matter) and she really climbs.
If you like to hand prop with your fingers over the edge of the prop (I
don't, I kinda like my fingers attached) then the Anderson prop may not
be the prop for you. The prop edge is sharper than a lot of the others.
Gene
N502R (great flying day in Tennessee)
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Props for A 65
Thanks for the info Gene. You have a sharp looking Piet there, and the
prop really sets it off. What speed do you see for cruising at 2150?
Ryan
.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
10/20/09 18:42:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Props for A 65 |
Hi Tim,
If you'd seen Western Tennessee yesterday, in full color, you'd never leave.
The paint is Poly Fiber. The white is "Juneau White" and the green is
"Everglades Green".
The heat muffs are "T'ed" into each other and run to the carb. I really
don't think heat into the cockpit would help much, as it's pretty windy in
there.
The stacks are stainless. I bought the stainless tube and fittings from
AS&S.
Thank you for your kind words. I'm looking forward to seeing your plane.
How about some photo?
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Props for A 65
>
>
> Gene,
> Your plane is a knockout, and the prop really helps the effect. I can
> believe that you and the B-17 were the stars.
>
> A couple of unrelated questions:
> -- Which color white and green on your paint, is the green "Cubby Trainer
> Green"?
> -- Do we see heat muffs on each side for rear exhausts, and if so, how
> plumbed, one for carb, one for cockpit heat? Are your stacks stainless,
> and where sourced? (I like your lack of merging exhausts, keeping good
> flow, and avoiding custom complexity.)
>
> (I am planning white for my wing and much metal work [have that white
> 2-part epoxy], and still considering many different bright and/or darker
> colors for contrast.)
> Tim in central TX
> (still missing TN)
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
18:42:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
Very nice Ben, Hope to see it in person next April at Sun N Fun.
Skip
> [Original Message]
> From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
> To: Pietenpol list
> Date: 10/21/2009 2:05:53 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: We have wings!
>
> Probably one of the more exciting days in a 5 year Pietenpol build!
> Ben Charvet
> Mims, Fl
> Still hoping to fly in 09
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio |
Centerburg is the geographical center of Ohio, 25 miles north of Columbus
--- On Wed, 10/21/09, Lagowski Morrow wrote:
From: Lagowski Morrow <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio
Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 9:29 PM
I have an interest, even 'tho I'm in N.W. Michigan. Where is Centerberg?-Ji
m Lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 8:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio
Hello Group, I have been thinking of having a pietenpol gathering here at m
y home airport, and am wondering how many interested people there might be.
- I was thinking about- next June.- We have plenty of runway and park
ing, camping if anyone wanted to, and posibly even shower facilities (might
be able to talk Bill into using his bunkhouse in his hanger).- It would
not be a huge event, just a local gathering of the ohio area Pietenpol guys
, or anyone else that wanted to fly in.- If any of you are interested let
me know so I can plan accordingly.- If there is enough interest I will p
lan further, if not oh well.- The airport Ident is OH71, and is located 1
mile s/w of the town of Centerburg Ohio.- This is just a shoot from the
hip idea, and one I have been wanting to do for a little while, since movin
g in here.- It would be nice to have a gathering close enough that it wou
ld only be about 2hr or less flight for most guys in the general area.- I
t
would be nice to have fun, fly home, and sleep in your own bed.- Let me
know if anyone is intrested.
-
Shad- "Spiderman" Bell
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
//mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio |
Shad,
Depending on the date and since I have no airplane to fly yet, its a drive
for me, Ohio is not that far, so for the moment I am interested. I may be
able to drag the camper along depending. I am certainly willing to make the
trip if all the variable can come together, God willing and the creeks
don't rise!
You can count me in so far and keep the details coming!
Thanks
John
In a message dated 10/22/2009 9:16:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com writes:
Centerburg is the geographical center of Ohio, 25 miles north of Columbus
--- On Wed, 10/21/09, Lagowski Morrow wrote:
From: Lagowski Morrow <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio
Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 9:29 PM
I have an interest, even 'tho I'm in N.W. Michigan. Where is
Centerberg?-Jim Lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: _shad bell_
(http://us.mc657.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=aviatorbell@yahoo.com)
(http://us.mc657.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietenpol-list@matronics.com)
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 8:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio
Hello Group, I have been thinking of having a pietenpol gathering here at
my home airport, and am wondering how many interested people there might
be. I was thinking about next June. We have plenty of runway and parking,
camping if anyone wanted to, and posibly even shower facilities (might be
able to talk Bill into using his bunkhouse in his hanger). It would not be
a huge event, just a local gathering of the ohio area Pietenpol guys, or
anyone else that wanted to fly in. If any of you are interested let me
know so I can plan accordingly. If there is enough interest I will plan
further, if not oh well. The airport Ident is OH71, and is located 1 mile s/w
of the town of Centerburg Ohio. This is just a shoot from the hip idea,
and one I have been wanting to do for a little while, since moving in here.
It would be nice to have a gathering close enough that it would only be
about 2hr or less flight for most guys in the general area. It would be nice
to have fun, fly home, and sleep in your own bed. Let me know if anyone
is intrested.
Shad "Spiderman" Bell
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Hey Spiderman...
You can count me in. Probably bring one of the kiddos and looking to "crash" for
the night. Ha!
Tell B.S. I'll bring the rain.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268928#268928
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio |
Shad-I'm game to attend if the weather cooperates that day/weekend.
How about you head to Sandusky County on Sunday if you can for the Chili Fl
y-In ? I am hoping to attend,
even if I have to dress up in a parka with a Husky on my lap to keep warm.
11 AM-2 PM Sunday @
http://www.airnav.com/airport/S24
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio
Centerburg is the geographical center of Ohio, 25 miles north of Columbus
--- On Wed, 10/21/09, Lagowski Morrow wrote:
From: Lagowski Morrow <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio
Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 9:29 PM
I have an interest, even 'tho I'm in N.W. Michigan. Where is Centerberg?-Ji
m Lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell<http://us.mc657.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=aviatorbell@
yahoo.com>
tenpol-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 8:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio
Hello Group, I have been thinking of having a pietenpol gathering here at m
y home airport, and am wondering how many interested people there might be.
I was thinking about next June. We have plenty of runway and parking, c
amping if anyone wanted to, and posibly even shower facilities (might be ab
le to talk Bill into using his bunkhouse in his hanger). It would not be a
huge event, just a local gathering of the ohio area Pietenpol guys, or any
one else that wanted to fly in. If any of you are interested let me know s
o I can plan accordingly. If there is enough interest I will plan further,
if not oh well. The airport Ident is OH71, and is located 1 mile s/w of t
he town of Centerburg Ohio. This is just a shoot from the hip idea, and on
e I have been wanting to do for a little while, since moving in here. It w
ould be nice to have a gathering close enough that it would only be about 2
hr or less flight for most guys in the general area. It would be nice to h
ave fun, fly home, and sleep in your own bed. Let me know if anyone is int
rested.
Shad "Spiderman" Bell
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | couple of Piets/ GN-1's on Barnstormers |
PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER A-65 LSA<http://barnstormers.com/classified_377121_Piet
enpol+Aircamper+A-65+LSA.html> * $8,500 * AVAILABLE FOR IMMEDIATE SALE * RE
DUCED for immediate sale. Great flying little airplane, 380hr airframe, 380
SMOH (cont a-65) Basic VFR panel, no electrical. Very well built. Extensive
annual completed in 5/2009 including top end overhaul. Needs tlc to be per
fect. Some oil on engine. Shaft seal has small leak, small fabric repair et
c. Possible delivery. 640lb empty, 450 useful load so its easily a light sp
ort airplane. Built in 1990, i have airframe log, no builder logs. Airplane
is Located in Arlington WA. Daily flier. * Contact Nikita C. Clark<http://
barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=65515&id=377121&title=Pietenpo
l+Aircamper+A-65+LSA&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYT
oyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6M
DoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6
Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M
6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik
NvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozO
iJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6
IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1
pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ
%253D%253D>, Owner - located Seattle, WA USA * Telephone: 808-330-7106 * Po
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jtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5l
IjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czo
wOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW
1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzO
jU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6
IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czo
wOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUH
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d_detail.php?ID=377121&go_to_images=1>
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wOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik
NvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6M
DoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5Ijtz
OjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czo
wOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiICI7cz
o4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO
3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D> - AERONCA 7AC LSA TRAIN 65HR WET FI FREE<http://ba
rnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=29542&id=375450&title=Pietenpol%
20Aircamper%20Project&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DY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%253D%253D>, Owner - located Centerburg, OH USA * Telephone: 740-625-6803
. * Posted October 7, 2009 * Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser<http://
barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=usersearch&user=29542> * Recommend Th
is Ad to a Friend<http://barnstormers.com/recommend.php?id=375450&title
=Pietenpol+Aircamper+Project> * Email Advertiser<http://barnstormers.com/
contact_seller.php?to=29542&id=375450&title=Pietenpol+Aircamper+Proje
ct&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3
b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWR
saW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlci
I7czowOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc
3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoi
IjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjt
zOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbC
I7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6O
DoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D> * Save
to Watchlist<http://barnstormers.com/ad_manager/watchlist.php?ADD=375450
> * Report This Ad<http://barnstormers.com/report_ad.php?id=375450&title
=Pietenpol+Aircamper+Project>
1977 GN-1 AIRCAMPER<http://barnstormers.com/classified_374256_1977+GN-1+Air
camper.html> * $9,000 * AVAILABLE FOR SALE * GN-1 aircamper with Contenenta
l A 65. Airframe total time 298 hours. 4119, TTE, 1198, SMOH,583 STOH. This
is a basic day VFR airplane that is is a a ton of fun to fly. It is not a
ten but has been a regular flyer. It has been hangered since I have owned i
t (5 years.) * Contact Duane L. Woolsey<http://barnstormers.com/contact_sel
ler.php?to=79023&id=374256&title=1977+GN-1+Aircamper&return=%2Flist
ing.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXR
lbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7cz
oxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiT
W9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7
czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjt
zOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOj
A6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ
2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6
MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D>, Owner - located Salt Lak
e City, UT USA * Telephone: 801-824-3688 . 801-364-7743 * Posted October 2,
2009 * Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser<http://barnstormers.com/list
ing.php?mode=usersearch&user=79023> * Recommend This Ad to a Friend
* Email Advertiser<http://barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=79023&i
d=374256&title=1977+GN-1+Aircamper&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsea
rch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGV
zY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlci
I7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzO
jc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUi
O3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR
5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbC
I7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiI
CI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJp
Y2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D> * Save to Watchlist<http://barnstormers.com/a
d_manager/watchlist.php?ADD=374256> * Report This Ad<http://barnstormers.
com/report_ad.php?id=374256&title=1977+GN-1+Aircamper> * View Larger Pi
ctures<http://barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=374256&go_to_images=1>
<http://barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=374256&go_to_images=1>
<http://barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=374256&go_to_images=1>
<http://barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=374256&go_to_images=1>
<http://barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=374256&go_to_images=1>
2 PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER PROJECTS<http://barnstormers.com/classified_369618_2+
Pietenpol+Aircamper+Projects.html> * $4,900 * FOR SALE BY OWNER * Huge head
start! Both projects-one price. Many photos via web - picasaweb.googlx.xxx/
kirkh1 * Contact Kirk Huizenga<http://barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?t
o=51106&id=369618&title=2+Pietenpol+Aircamper+Projects&return=%2Fli
sting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZ
XRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7
czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NTo
iTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6Ii
I7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlI
jtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtz
OjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODo
iQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3
M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D>, Owner - located St Pau
l, MN USA * Telephone: 6517745916 * Posted September 17, 2009 * Show all Ad
s posted by this Advertiser<http://barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=user
search&user=51106> * Recommend This Ad to a Friend<http://barnstormers.co
m/recommend.php?id=369618&title=2+Pietenpol+Aircamper+Projects> * Email
Advertiser<http://barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=51106&id=3696
18&title=2+Pietenpol+Aircamper+Projects&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3D
search%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToi
RGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJ
lciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIj
tzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hb
WUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJD
aXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWF
pbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MT
oiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vU
HJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D> * Save to Watchlist<http://barnstormers.co
m/ad_manager/watchlist.php?ADD=369618> * Report This Ad<http://barnstorme
rs.com/report_ad.php?id=369618&title=2+Pietenpol+Aircamper+Projects>
PIETENPOL<http://barnstormers.com/classified_368856_Pietenpol.html> * $8,50
0 * AVAILABLE FOR SALE * PIETENPOL GN-1 * $8,500 * FOR SALE * no engine or
prop aircraft located in live oak, FL call 386 364 8357. * Contact Fred Dex
ter<http://barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=54521&id=368856&title
=Pietenpol&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7cz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%253D%25
3D> - MACKINNON AIR SERVICE<http://barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to
=54521&id=368856&title=Pietenpol&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsea
rch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGV
zY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlci
I7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzO
jc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUi
O3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR
5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbC
I7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiI
CI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJp
Y2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D>, Owner - located Loudon, NH USA * Telephone:
603 798 3148 * Fax: 603 798 3149 * Posted September 14, 2009 * Show all Ads
posted by this Advertiser<http://barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=users
earch&user=54521> * Recommend This Ad to a Friend<http://barnstormers.com
/recommend.php?id=368856&title=Pietenpol> * Email Advertiser<http://bar
nstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=54521&id=368856&title=Pietenpol&r
eturn=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3Jk
IjtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5
lIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7cz
owOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROY
W1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtz
OjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU
6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7cz
owOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiU
HJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D> * Save to
Watchlist<http://barnstormers.com/ad_manager/watchlist.php?ADD=368856> *
Report This Ad<http://barnstormers.com/report_ad.php?id=368856&title=Pi
etenpol> * View Larger Pictures<http://barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=
368856&go_to_images=1>
<http://barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=368856&go_to_images=1>
<http://barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=368856&go_to_images=1>
<http://barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=368856&go_to_images=1>
<http://barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=368856&go_to_images=1>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: humped center section] |
Clif,
I like the look of your exhaust pipes. Did you make your own or did you
buy them from somewhere? Mine are starting to rust through, so I'll
need new ones real soon...
Thanks,
Dan
Clif Dawson wrote:
> I've also attached a pic of my throttle linkage
> and left side exhaust manifold.
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio |
Shad=2C
Count me in. I don't have an airplane to fly=2C but it's not a very far dr
ive.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Date: Thu=2C 22 Oct 2009 05:59:23 -0700
From: aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering=2C Ohio
Centerburg is the geographical center of Ohio=2C 25 miles north of Columbus
--- On Wed=2C 10/21/09=2C Lagowski Morrow wrote:
From: Lagowski Morrow <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering=2C Ohio
Date: Wednesday=2C October 21=2C 2009=2C 9:29 PM
I have an interest=2C even 'tho I'm in N.W. Michigan. Where is Centerberg?-
Jim Lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
Sent: Wednesday=2C October 21=2C 2009 8:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering=2C Ohio
Hello Group=2C I have been thinking of having a pietenpol gathering here at
my home airport=2C and am wondering how many interested people there might
be. I was thinking about next June. We have plenty of runway and parkin
g=2C camping if anyone wanted to=2C and posibly even shower facilities (mig
ht be able to talk Bill into using his bunkhouse in his hanger). It would
not be a huge event=2C just a local gathering of the ohio area Pietenpol gu
ys=2C or anyone else that wanted to fly in. If any of you are interested l
et me know so I can plan accordingly. If there is enough interest I will p
lan further=2C if not oh well. The airport Ident is OH71=2C and is located
1 mile s/w of the town of Centerburg Ohio. This is just a shoot from the
hip idea=2C and one I have been wanting to do for a little while=2C since m
oving in here. It would be nice to have a gathering close enough that it w
ould only be about 2hr or less flight for most guys in the general area. I
t would be nice to have fun=2C fly home=2C and sleep in your own bed. Let
me know if anyone is intrested.
Shad "Spiderman" Bell
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________
_________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
[quote="aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com"]Hello Group, I have been thinking of having a
pietenpol gathering here at my home airport, and am wondering how many interested
people there might be. I was thinking about next June. We have plenty
of runway and parking, camping if anyone wanted to, and posibly even shower facilities
(might be able to talk Bill into using his bunkhouse in his hanger).
It would not be a huge event, just a local gathering of the ohio area Pietenpol
guys, or anyone else that wanted to fly in. If any of you are interested let
me know so I can plan accordingly. If there is enough interest I will plan
further, if not oh well. The airport Ident is OH71, and is located 1 mile s/w
of the town of Centerburg Ohio. This is just a shoot from the hip idea, and
one I have been wanting to do for a little while, since moving in here. It
would be nice to have a gathering close enough that it would only be about 2hr
or less flight for most guys in the general area. It would be nice to have fun,
fly home, and sleep in your own bed. Let me know if anyone is intrested.
Shad "Spiderman" Bell
> [b]
I doubt I'll be flying yet but would be interested. Road an old Honda 200 cc from
Remsen Ny to Broadhead last summer. You would be only 1/2 the distance.
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268964#268964
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio |
I guess that lets me out
john
In a message dated 10/22/2009 4:13:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "coxwelljon"
[quote="aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com"]Hello Group, I have been thinking of
having a pietenpol gathering here at my home airport, and am wondering how
many interested people there might be. I was thinking about next June. We
have plenty of runway and parking, camping if anyone wanted to, and posibly
even shower facilities (might be able to talk Bill into using his bunkhouse
in his hanger). It would not be a huge event, just a local gathering of
the ohio area Pietenpol guys, or anyone else that wanted to fly in. If any
of you are interested let me know so I can plan accordingly. If there is
enough interest I will plan further, if not oh well. The airport Ident is
OH71, and is located 1 mile s/w of the town of Centerburg Ohio. This is
just a shoot from the hip idea, and one I have been wanting to do for a little
while, since moving in here. It would be nice to have a gathering close
enough that it would only be about 2hr or less flight for most guys in the
general area. !
It would be nice to have fun, fly home, and sleep in your own bed. Let me
know if anyone is intrested.
Shad "Spiderman" Bell
> [b]
I doubt I'll be flying yet but would be interested. Road an old Honda 200
cc from Remsen Ny to Broadhead last summer. You would be only 1/2 the
distance.
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268964#268964
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Prop choices for Corvair |
Ok.. with all this talk about props for A65s I thought I would ask about props
on Corvair powered Piets.
What are those that are flying with them using?
Manufacturer :
Diam/Pitch :
Static RPM :
WOT RPM :
Notes on performance numbers and if you're happy with the prop or you'd do something
different next time.
Thanks
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
(working on FWF among other things)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
[quote="moretesantiago(at)yahoo.c"]Hi Jon,
I don't know if I can help you, since our Piet is not flying, but we have round
lift struts, 1"OD .049 wall, 1025 steel. That's stronger than necessary.
Saludos
Santiago
Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.
http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
> [b]
The round set of struts that came with my project are 1 1/8" O.D. x .035. I do
not know what grade of steel they are and really do not know how to determine
that. I would like to think it is 4130 but will probably uses a lower grade
for my calculations.
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268976#268976
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Cable travel on elevator |
I am curious if someone can go out to their plane and see how far their ele
vator cable travels with full stick throw...full up to full down. I am tryi
ng to get a feel for how far my push/pull tubes need to move.- Not worrie
d about stick travel, just the-linear distance the cable moves.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Prop choices for Corvair |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Tennessee 66x30 2950 static at 6700 ft. Will report static thrust when I
find a big enough fish scale.
Rick
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Michael Groah wrote:
>
> *Ok.. with all this talk about props for A65s I thought I would ask about props
on Corvair powered Piets.
>
> What are those that are flying with them using?
>
> Manufacturer :
> Diam/Pitch :
> Static RPM :
> WOT RPM :
> Notes on performance numbers and if you're happy with the prop or you'd do something
different next time.
>
> Thanks
> Mike Groah
> Tulare CA
> (working on FWF among other things)
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop choices for Corvair |
NX92GB has a Hegy 66-30, and it runs along at about 80mph, drinks about 4.5
-5.0 gph, and sounds like a cessna 210 when it goes by.- I don't know if
you can get a Hegy anymore, ours was made in 03 i believe by Ray Hegy's gra
ndson, in Marfa Texas.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Interest in a Pietenpol gathering, Ohio |
Mike, I gotta work this sunday or I would love to go.- The little whipper
snapper keeps me busy, and have not had as much time to fly this year, but
I try to sneek an hour here and there.- This weather has been lousy the
past couple weeks, I guess it's time to rig up the pre-heater, and get out
the coveralls so I can go freeze some buggers to my upper lip, If i go down
I guess I could eat them to survive for a couple days.- It souds like th
ere is enough interest so I will start initial planning of the new "Buckeye
Pietenpol Gathering", souds like there is a good possibility of having at
least 6-10 piets.- By the way I read your barnstormers e-mail, I actually
went down to Bills to get fuel here at the airport, and took a look at his
piet projects.- The fuselage is built, tail feathers built, and he has 2
set of ribs. There is also another set of fuselage sides built, but not sk
inned in plywood yet, and the completed fuslage is wider than plans by
about 2 inches or so.- Any way enjoy the chili on sunday, and don't forg
et your Tum-ta-tum-tum-tums.
-
Shad
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: humped center section] |
I made them. I found a local outlet for mandrel bent
steel tubing elbows and U's. I forget how much but
not expensive so if you don't get it right the first time
it's not a big expense.
I bought a 6" channel piece from metalsupermarket,
measured and drilled bolt holes from a cardboard
template taken directly from the engine. I made up the
front tube assembly with a long enough tube to go as
far back as I wanted the exhaust to go with the straight
part parallel to the flange.Then I fit the rear tube to that
and it's flange. This part is really picky!
Once that was fitted I marked all around that joint and
cut out the straight tube to fit. Fiddled with this quite
a bit too. This was spot welded then checked for fit on
the engine. Once good and back on the jig it was fully
welded. My welding is structuraly sound but not all
that pretty so I filed and ground it till it was. It appears
that wasn't such a great idea. :-) It looks real nice in the
pics but isn't so hot in real life. Oh well.
Oh yes, make sure your horizontal piping is parallel to
the plane, not the engine if the engine is angled down
at all.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:40 AM
Subject: exhaust manifold [was Re: Pietenpol-List: humped center section]
>
> Clif,
>
> I like the look of your exhaust pipes. Did you make your own or did you
> buy them from somewhere? Mine are starting to rust through, so I'll
> need new ones real soon...
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>
> Clif Dawson wrote:
>
>
>
>> I've also attached a pic of my throttle linkage
>> and left side exhaust manifold.
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
18:44:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
| From: | "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs> |
coxwelljon wrote:
> ... If so it sounds like I am in the ball park.
Jon,
There is a thread on this list where it is already calculated:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=50044&highlight=strut+rod+ends
Regards,
Ivan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269028#269028
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Special Airworthiness Info Bulletin wrt float-type carbs |
Just an FYI for those of us with float-type carbs which, I guess, covers
just about all of us:
http://download.aopa.org/epilot/2009/091022saib.pdf
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: humped center section] |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Got 90 degree mandrel bent 1 1/2" mild steel exhaust pipe pieces for mine
for $16 from JC Whitney. Just cut the angles you need, very easy welding.
rick
On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 2:44 AM, Clif Dawson wrote:
> I made them. I found a local outlet for mandrel bent
> steel tubing elbows and U's. I forget how much but
> not expensive so if you don't get it right the first time
> it's not a big expense.
>
> I bought a 6" channel piece from metalsupermarket,
> measured and drilled bolt holes from a cardboard
> template taken directly from the engine. I made up the
> front tube assembly with a long enough tube to go as
> far back as I wanted the exhaust to go with the straight
> part parallel to the flange.Then I fit the rear tube to that
> and it's flange. This part is really picky!
>
> Once that was fitted I marked all around that joint and
> cut out the straight tube to fit. Fiddled with this quite
> a bit too. This was spot welded then checked for fit on
> the engine. Once good and back on the jig it was fully
> welded. My welding is structuraly sound but not all
> that pretty so I filed and ground it till it was. It appears
> that wasn't such a great idea. :-) It looks real nice in the
> pics but isn't so hot in real life. Oh well.
>
> Oh yes, make sure your horizontal piping is parallel to
> the plane, not the engine if the engine is angled down
> at all.
>
> Clif
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:40 AM
> Subject: exhaust manifold [was Re: Pietenpol-List: humped center section]
>
>
>>
>> Clif,
>>
>> I like the look of your exhaust pipes. Did you make your own or did you
>> buy them from somewhere? Mine are starting to rust through, so I'll
>> need new ones real soon...
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> Clif Dawson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I've also attached a pic of my throttle linkage
>>> and left side exhaust manifold.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Dan Yocum
>> Fermilab 630.840.6509
>> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
>> Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 18:44:00
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: humped center section] |
Good to know Rick! Jim Boyer and I have bought some U-bend mandrels from
www.magnumforce.com <http://www.magnumforce.com/> .... A little more
expensive.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: exhaust manifold [was Re: Pietenpol-List: humped center
section]
Got 90 degree mandrel bent 1 1/2" mild steel exhaust pipe pieces for mine
for $16 from JC Whitney. Just cut the angles you need, very easy welding.
rick
On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 2:44 AM, Clif Dawson wrote:
I made them. I found a local outlet for mandrel bent
steel tubing elbows and U's. I forget how much but
not expensive so if you don't get it right the first time
it's not a big expense.
I bought a 6" channel piece from metalsupermarket,
measured and drilled bolt holes from a cardboard
template taken directly from the engine. I made up the
front tube assembly with a long enough tube to go as
far back as I wanted the exhaust to go with the straight
part parallel to the flange.Then I fit the rear tube to that
and it's flange. This part is really picky!
Once that was fitted I marked all around that joint and
cut out the straight tube to fit. Fiddled with this quite
a bit too. This was spot welded then checked for fit on
the engine. Once good and back on the jig it was fully
welded. My welding is structuraly sound but not all
that pretty so I filed and ground it till it was. It appears
that wasn't such a great idea. :-) It looks real nice in the
pics but isn't so hot in real life. Oh well.
Oh yes, make sure your horizontal piping is parallel to
the plane, not the engine if the engine is angled down
at all.
Clif
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:40 AM
Subject: exhaust manifold [was Re: Pietenpol-List: humped center section]
Clif,
I like the look of your exhaust pipes. Did you make your own or did you
buy them from somewhere? Mine are starting to rust through, so I'll
need new ones real soon...
Thanks,
Dan
Clif Dawson wrote:
I've also attached a pic of my throttle linkage
and left side exhaust manifold.
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
18:44:00
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Push/pull tubes and rod ends |
I am trying to figure out what size and material tube to use to go from the
control stick to the elevator bell crank.- I see in the Bingelis books,
he talks about heavy wall aluminum threaded tubing.- Since I am all about
saving weight on my plane, I would prefer aluminum. The plans call for 1/8
" cable, which-is rated between 1760 and 2100 lbs. I would hope that a tu
be/rod end combination that rated at these numbers would work.- So, I am
trying to figure out what size tube and threaded rod end will give me the 1
760-2100 lb. rating.-- If someone can prvide a usable formula, I may be
able to figure it out myself.
-
Thanks group.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Push/pull tubes and rod ends |
Are you planning on re-designing the entire elevator control system with
pushrods, requiring a pushrod attached to each elevator, a pushrod from the
bellcrank to the rear stick and a pushrod between sticks? It probably will
require an additional pushrod and bellcrank to enable you to pass underneath
the rear seat (where the cable from the stick to the bellcrank makes a bend,
with the plans showing it just passing through a hole drilled in the wood -
I added a pulley here).
If so, figure out the yield strength of whatever alloy of aluminum you
intend to use, then determine what area will be required to withstand the
load (1760 lbs, if you want to equal the cable strength) without exceeding
that stress level. Use the formula Stress = Load divided by Area (s = P/A),
and solve for area (A) since you know the load (P = 1760) and you know the
stress (s = yield strength of your alloy times whatever safety factor you
feel like throwing in). Once you know the area, then determine what wall
thickness and tube diameter will produce the required area. Of course,
there will be machined fittings required on each end of the pushrods, and
rod end bearings to reduce the amount of slop.
As an engineer, I have to wonder why are you doing this? The cables work
well. Any arrangement with pushrods is going to be much more complicated,
due to the geometry of the airplane. Pushrods will end up being far more
expensive and heavier. I don't understand what advantage you are trying to
achieve here, other than to be "different". You could accomplish that by
painting it Pink.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
Enjoying a rainy day by building the wings of my RV-10 in the basement
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 10:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Push/pull tubes and rod ends
I am trying to figure out what size and material tube to use to go from the
control stick to the elevator bell crank. I see in the Bingelis books, he
talks about heavy wall aluminum threaded tubing. Since I am all about
saving weight on my plane, I would prefer aluminum. The plans call for 1/8"
cable, which is rated between 1760 and 2100 lbs. I would hope that a
tube/rod end combination that rated at these numbers would work. So, I am
trying to figure out what size tube and threaded rod end will give me the
1760-2100 lb. rating. If someone can prvide a usable formula, I may be
able to figure it out myself.
Thanks group.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Push/pull tubes and rod ends |
Push/pull tubes are used in all kinds of aircraft safely. All of which have
more aggressive performance then a slow, draggy, 80+ year old designed Pie
t. Yet most seem to think to make the switch to push/pull is a bad idea...w
hy? I know most just get upset because I stray from the sacred bible of bui
lding the Pietenpol...the prints. Yet non have legitimate reasons for not d
oing it...at least not any they share.- If you guys have facts for NOT us
ing them, please, do tell. To make a statement and not back it up is useles
s.
-
The Bingelis books talks about aluminum tubes-for push/pull...-you know
, the books everyone raves over. He also talks about how these systems-MA
Y weigh less then a cable system with the cables, pulleys, brackets, shackl
es, bearings, nicopress fittings, etc.-
-
If you could run a tube from the firewall to the rudder and support the len
gth along the way-with, say bushings,-there would be no flexing/bending
, yes?
-
I don't have the answers...yet, that is why I am here. I am looking for ANS
WERS, not opinion, guesses, or dialog on how this 80 year old plane built b
y a guy in his garage can't be improved upon with some common sense and som
e homework.
-
Here is what one engineer sent me:-
-
Pull out load = (1/3)(dia rod)(pi)(shear load)(length of engagement)
-
For some generic heavy wall tube from McMaster Carr and a 1/4-28 male threa
d rod end, I get:- 1962 lbs. worse case with .500" thread engagement, 294
4 lbs. with .75" engagement.
-
The 7X19 SS cable is rated at 1760 lbs.- Using the controls in the Pieten
October 11, 2009 - October 24, 2009
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-il