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> option is to swap the oil cooler out, but that a $500 cost. > > > Thank You > Ray Doerr > 40250 > N519RV > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kermanj > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:53 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: high oil temp > > > Hello everyone. I just flew from Florida to California and had a > serious oil temp issue. The temperatures are very hot across > southern part of the country so I am not sure if this is to be > expected. > > I am seeing 220 climbing through 5000 and need to lower the nose and > climb only at 300 fpm to keep the temp from climbing higher. This is > even worse after a fuel stop when the engine gets soaked with heat. > > I used to have to watch my CHT but now it is the oil temp limiting my > performance. > > Does anyone else have similar issues at this time of the year? > > I have no modifications to the cowl and have Vans FWF stuff. > > Thanks, > Rob Kermanj > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: high oil temp
Date: Aug 02, 2007
From: pilotdds(at)aol.com
It was a direct replacement-simple install-I bought louvres but did not feel I needed them after the new oil cooler.I did remove the dams on 1 and two. -----Original Message----- From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> Sent: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 8:04 am Subject: Re: RV10-List: high oil temp Does this oil cooler fit or did you have to modify things? Thanks, Rob. On Aug 2, 2007, at 10:58 AM, pilotdds(at)aol.com wrote: I had similar problems that disapeared with the oil cooler made by the air-conditioning folks and marketed by Alex De dominicis.10 degree reduction and much quicker cooling after climb.Temps have been well over 100 in our valley. -----Original Message----- From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> Sent: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 2:52 am Subject: RV10-List: high oil temp ? Hello everyone. I just flew from Florida to California and had a serious oil temp issue. The temperatures are very hot across southern part of the country so I am not sure if this is to be expected.? ? I am seeing 220 climbing through 5000 and need to lower the nose and climb only at 300 fpm to keep the temp from climbing higher. This is even worse after a fuel stop when the engine gets soaked with heat.? ? I used to have to watch my CHT but now it is the oil temp limiting my performance.? ? Does anyone else have similar issues at this time of the year?? ? I have no modifications to the cowl and have Vans FWF stuff.? ? Thanks,? Rob Kermanj? ? ? ? href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TT Pitch Servo Install Directions
From: "jayb" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 02, 2007
I spoke with Zach at TT. They are working on AutoCAD diagrams, but do not have them ready at present... The bellcrank hole position is not critical, but should be located 2.25" up and .5" aft from the center hole. The TT bracket supplied by Vans in the -10 kit should be discarded. Instead, use the one supplied with the servo. Regards, Jay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127234#127234 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Aug 02, 2007
Subject: Re: high oil temp
I have the louvers on the bottom of the cowl..........they do work. If you just install the SW cooler and do NOT put in the louvers don't expec t much of a change. AMF when I talked to the people selling the "better " oil cooler for $500 they would not promise cooler oil temps without ad ding the louvers. Airflow over the cooler is the issue in the RV10..... ......NOT the cooler itself. IMHO Dean 805HL ________________________________________________________________________ Get Juno DSL - the easier, safer broadband! 32
I have the louvers on the bottom of the cowl..........they do w ork. If you just install the SW cooler and do NOT put in the louve rs don't expect much of a change. AMF when I talked to the people selling the "better" oil cooler for $500 they would not promise cooler o il temps without adding the louvers. Airflow over the cooler is th e issue in the RV10...........NOT the cooler itself.

IMHO Dean 805HL

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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: TT Pitch Servo Install Directions
Date: Aug 02, 2007
I didn't even get the pictures! I have not begun to install yet but I second the request for assist. Dave Leikam 40496 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Brinkmeyer" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:02 AM Subject: RV10-List: TT Pitch Servo Install Directions > > ... are really lame (TruTrak, are you listening?). This is all I got in > the box > (same as from their website): > http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/documents/RV10pitch.pdf > > There are no dimensions called out for drilling the bellcrank hole. The > bracket > photo leaves a lot to the imagination. Worse yet, the -10 plans show a > different bracket in a different location. > > Would some kind sole please take pity and help out a rookie pitch servo > installer with additional information? > > Thanks in advance, > Jay > > > Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's > Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: high oil temp
Date: Aug 02, 2007
From: pilotdds(at)AOL.COM
In my humble experience ,verified with before and after testing ,the oil cooler without the louvres do improve cooling.I installed the cooler with the intent of placing the louvres later and found it unnecesary.The heating of the firewall seems to cause the oil cooler to become a heat sink .Additional airflow over the cooler can only help but may not be necesary.On sat 7-21 I was held on the ground for 40 minutes in 106 degree heat,oil temp reached 228 on the ground.On release and 1000 fpm climbout ,110 mph ,three large men aboard temp went to 207.Leveling at 5500 temp went to 195. Hope this helps -----Original Message----- From: ddddsp1(at)juno.com <ddddsp1(at)juno.com> Sent: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 3:29 pm Subject: Re: RV10-List: high oil temp I have the louvers on the bottom of the cowl..........they do work.? If you just install the SW cooler and do NOT put in the louvers don't expect much of a change.? AMF when I talked to the people selling the "better" oil cooler for $500 they would not promise cooler oil temps without adding the louvers.? Airflow over the cooler is the issue in the RV10...........NOT the cooler itself. IMHO?? Dean? 805HL ________________________________________________________________________ /2-2125045-32">Get Juno DSL - the easier, safer broadband! ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "The McGough Family" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: tunnel temps
Date: Aug 03, 2007
Guys that are flying I installed a Kool mat on the firewall due do complaints of tunnel heat. This has all seem to die down. I am about to install engine and was thinking of taking the mat off as of the weight and as there may not be a tunnel problem with 90 RV10 s flying Any thoughts Chris Down under ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: high oil temp
From: "bill@airflow" <airflow2(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 02, 2007
This is my first time to post and am not sure of the protocol, but there is some clarification required of some of the info posted re high oil temps on the RV-10: The oil coolers from the air conditioning company are made by Airflow Systems and are available from Airflow (949-218-9701) or Alex De Dominicis or Aircraft Spruce. You do not have to have the louvers to realize better oil temps with the new oil cooler, but when mounted on the SIDE of the lower cowl the louvers do improve CHTs and oil temps to a greater degree (unintended pun), especially in climb. Louvers on the bottom help, but not as much as on the side. Also, the oil coolers are not $500.00, retail is $427.00 and for the month of August they include a free set of louvers when ordered from Airflow or Alex. Contrary to one statement, there is a substantial difference in the performance of the various oil coolers when the flow rates (cooling air and oil) are the same. We have verified this in multiple tests on different RV-10s with and without louvers, as well as bench testing. There is much room for improvement on the RV-10 engine air management and my prediction is that the final version of the cooler install will be significantly different than what is used now. There is no reason an aircraft of this capability should not perform better on a hot day. I have the louvers on the bottom of the cowl..........they do work. If > you just install the SW cooler and do NOT put in the louvers don't > expect much of a change. AMF when I talked to the people selling the > "better" oil cooler for $500 they would not promise cooler oil temps > without adding the louvers. Airflow over the cooler is the issue in the > RV10...........NOT the cooler itself. > IMHO Dean 805HL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127293#127293 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Aug 03, 2007
Subject: Re: high oil temp
Bill, Thanks for your reply on this issue. It would benefit everyone on this list if you would share your data on the oil cooler. How much temps dec rease? How was the testing conducted? Temps? Humidity? aircraft? hours tested? etc. What is significant temp reduction? Most posts on this li st are anedotal responses based on limited personal experience or that o f a few friends. Hearing your professional experience and the extensive testing procedures of this issue would be of value. Just like discussi ons on PROP performance it is hard to replicate a CREDIBLE test or side by side tests, so please share your details to assist all us builders de ciding what we can do to improve our aircraft. Thanks, Dean 805HL ________________________________________________________________________ Get Juno DSL - the easier, safer broadband! 32
Bill,

Thanks for your reply on this issue. It would benefit everyone on this list if you would share your data on the oil cooler. How m uch temps decrease? How was the testing conducted? Temps? Humidity ? aircraft? hours tested? etc. What is significant temp reduction? Most posts on this list are anedotal responses based on limited p ersonal experience or that of a few friends. Hearing your professi onal experience and the extensive testing procedures of this issue would be of value. Just like discussions on PROP performance it is hard to replicate a CREDIBLE test or side by side tests, so please share you r details to assist all us builders deciding what we can do to improve o ur aircraft.

Thanks,

Dean 805HL

______________________ __________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: high oil temp
From: "bill@airflow" <airflow2(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 03, 2007
Dean, Thanks for the invite to share data. I will be happy to do that upon my return from a planned family vacation which starts in a few minutes. I will be back Aug. 10 midday for half a day and can post again then. We are willing to share data but I do not want it to sound like a commercial. I will present it as charts, along with our observations, that will be available to anyone that is interested so that they can draw their own conclusions. My wife its past time to go... Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127316#127316 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: high oil temp
From: "tintopranch" <mark_sutherland(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 03, 2007
I live in TX and did see 200+ oil temps on climb out, I added an extra set of van's cowl vents on the bottom of the cowl under the oil cooler and have seen my oil temps stay under 200 on climb outs now. I also sealed up all of the large gaps in my baffles. So it does appear the oil cooler needs some help on hot days in a climb or slow flight. -------- MARK SUTHERLAND RV-10 40292 Flying since June 07 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127327#127327 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tunnel temps
From: "tintopranch" <mark_sutherland(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 03, 2007
I am flying with the koolmat installed and have not had any problems with the tunnel temp. My wieght and CG are right inline with Van's. I would keep it. I have been pleased the noise and heat reduction. -------- MARK SUTHERLAND RV-10 40292 Flying since June 07 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127328#127328 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TT Pitch Servo Install Directions
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: Aug 03, 2007
Great, I just started to work on thes servo today and had the same question. It is quite some time ago that I received the servos and I can't recall if the pitch servo comes with the bolts, brackets and bearing, spacer etc. I'd like to clarify that befor I call TT. Best Regardsa from Switzerland Michael -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127361#127361 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tunnel temps
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: Aug 03, 2007
Can anyone please tell me the exact name of that Kool mat and where to order? Has Spruce this? I believe you mount this on the cabin side of the FW. Michael -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127382#127382 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: tunnel temps
Date: Aug 04, 2007
Its called Kool mat and spruce sell it ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 7:47 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: tunnel temps > > > Can anyone please tell me the exact name of that Kool mat and where to > order? Has Spruce this? I believe you mount this on the cabin side of the > FW. > > > Michael > > > -------- > RV-10 builder (wings) > #511 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127382#127382 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2007
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: TT Pitch Servo Install Directions
About a year ago TT changed the mounting of the RV-10 pitch servo for torque enhancement. There is a new wheel and cables attached to a moving rail. It requires a new mounting bracket in lieu of the one supplied with the kit. See the photos on Tim's site <http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20060816/index.html>. If yours does not look like this call TT. Larry Michael Wellenzohn wrote: > > Great, > > I just started to work on thes servo today and had the same question. It is quite some time ago that I received the servos and I can't recall if the pitch servo comes with the bolts, brackets and bearing, spacer etc. > > I'd like to clarify that befor I call TT. > > Best Regardsa from Switzerland > Michael > > > -------- > RV-10 builder (wings) > #511 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127361#127361 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2007
From: Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: tunnel temps
Michael, Actually it mounts on the firewall side, it's widely used on race car firewalls. I think it looks good, although cutting out all the little holes was fun. It is a fiberglass woven cloth with a silicone covering. Heres the direct link. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php Rick S. 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> Sent: Friday, August 3, 2007 4:54:00 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: tunnel temps Its called Kool mat and spruce sell it ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 7:47 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: tunnel temps > > > Can anyone please tell me the exact name of that Kool mat and where to > order? Has Spruce this? I believe you mount this on the cabin side of the > FW. > > > Michael > > > -------- > RV-10 builder (wings) > #511 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127382#127382 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2007
From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu>
Subject: Stewart Systems (formerly AFS) paint system
Listers, I spent some time talking to the Stewart Systems (formerly AFS) guys at OSH about their water-borne polyurethane paint system. I painted my RV-6A with Imron (single stage) back in 1999, but am interested in something less hazardous for my RV-10, if it'll do a good job. Do any listers have any experiences with this paint that you'd care to share? I'm interested in any experiences with applying the paint, quality of finish, and durability (wear, resistance to fuel spills, etc). Thanks, Tim Lewis -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dogsbark(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Stewart Systems (formerly AFS) paint system
Date: Aug 04, 2007
Tim, I've been using the AFS White Primer for the entire project. I think it's at least as durable as the Sherwin Williams Wash Primer or the rattle can stuff. Easy to clean afterward. It can be diluted with water, but be careful to only apply a light "fog" initially to the parts. After that, it adheres to the parts without running as easily. Dry time is good too. Just as an experiment, I applied some of the AFS 2 Part High Gloss Paint to the interior rear foot wells early into the fuselage construction. After much traffic and the occasional dropped bucking bar and other things, it seems to be holding up well. Gloss is as advertised. I can't speak to the comparisson to other brands.....no other experience. Limited information to your specific question....hope it helps. Sean Blair #40225 -------------- Original message -------------- From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> > > Listers, > > I spent some time talking to the Stewart Systems (formerly AFS) guys at > OSH about their water-borne polyurethane paint system. I painted my > RV-6A with Imron (single stage) back in 1999, but am interested in something > less > hazardous for my RV-10, if it'll do a good job. Do any listers have any > experiences with this paint that you'd care to share? I'm interested in > any experiences with applying the paint, quality of finish, and > durability (wear, resistance to fuel spills, etc). > > Thanks, > > Tim Lewis > -- > > Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) > RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs > RV-10 #40059 under construction > > > > > -- > Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) > RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs > RV-10 #40059 under construction > > > > > >
Tim,

I've been using the AFS White Primer for the entire project. I think it's at least as durable as the Sherwin Williams Wash Primer or the rattle can stuff. Easy to clean afterward.

It can be diluted with water, but be careful to only apply a light "fog" initially to the parts. After that, it adheres to the parts without running as easily. Dry time is good too.

Just as an experiment, I applied some of the AFS 2 Part High Gloss Paint to the interior rear foot wells early into the fuselage construction. After much traffic and the occasional dropped bucking bar and other things, it seems to be holding up well. Gloss is as advertised. I can't speak to the comparisson to other brands.....no other experience.

Limited information to your specific question....hope it helps.

Sean Blair

#40225

> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Lewis
>
> Listers,
>
> I spent some time talking to the Stewart Systems (formerly AFS) guys at
> OSH about their water-borne polyurethane paint system. I painted my
> RV-6A with Imron (single stage) back in 1999, but am interested in something
> less
> hazardous for my RV-10, if it'll do a good job. Do any listers have any
> experiences with this paint that you'd care to share? I'm interested in
> any experiences with applying the paint, quality of finish, and
> durability (wear, resistance to fuel spills, etc).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim Lewis
> --
>
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> RV-6A N47 TD -- BR>> ;

________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Windshield Installation
Cal, I also had a problem with the windscreen bowing outward from the cabin frame. here's a link to a picture of what I did. http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2045%20Cabin%20Doors%20and%20Transparancies/slides/DSC04376.html Basically I used some clamps, some clecos and some scrap .062 alum 'fingers' to hold it in place. As to the Gap on the bottom of the windscreen, I'm not sure that it's too critical, as the windscreen is held in place primarily by the fiberglass layups that lay over this and the upper fwd fuse. You will fill the gap with flox, and obvioudly the smaller the gap the les there is that will seep inside and need to be cleaned/removed. Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ Cal Hoffman wrote: > How much pressure are people using to make the windshield fit against > the right and left sides of the upper forward fuse top? My windshield > curve does not exactly match the curve and I am hesitant to trim > more. What is an allowable gap around the windshield bottom? > * > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Subject: Re: tunnel temps
Date: Aug 04, 2007
I bought my insulating material from Buckley Industries who are in Wichita, KS. They have a fire resistant material for the firewall and then a sound proofing material for the other areas. It was very easy to install. Just peal off the paper from the back and press on. There phone number is 316-744-7587. Firewall insulation part # 139675 which is a 27X48 sheet of material and costs around $83 Sidewall insulation material part # 139679 also a 27X48 sheet and costs around $74 I'm flying now and the noise level is very good. I didn't insulate the tunnel but have carpet running up the side of it and the top of the tunnel is covered with leather and I am not experiencing any tunnel heat issue. I was flying yesterday with outside temperatures on the ground over 90 and when I was in the air I felt all around the tunnel and I couldn't find any hot spots. Wayne Edgerton N602WT flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Trutrak EFIS
From: "Rhino" <bsimmons(at)rainbowdata.com>
Date: Aug 04, 2007
They're apparently still working on it. I saw it at Oshkosh this year. No details on their site yet though.[/img] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127446#127446 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tunnel temps
From: "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Date: Aug 04, 2007
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=THE%2D14110&N=700+115&autoview=sku Zack -------- RV8 #80125 RV10 # 40512 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127465#127465 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flyingconnection(at)earthlink.net" <flyingconnection(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Paint Quote?
Date: Aug 04, 2007
New to the list... Helping a friend figure out a paint scheme for his RV-10, and will be getting quotes for having it painted. I'm wondering if anybody has recommendations? And about how much should he expect to pay for a nice looking job? flyingconnection(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Paint Quote?
Date: Aug 05, 2007
Whats your name? Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: flyingconnection(at)earthlink.net To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 8:24 AM Subject: RV10-List: Paint Quote? New to the list... Helping a friend figure out a paint scheme for his RV-10, and will be getting quotes for having it painted. I'm wondering if anybody has recommendations? And about how much should he expect to pay for a nice looking job? flyingconnection(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com>
Subject: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs
Date: Aug 04, 2007
I'm finally getting through the plans review of the QB kits and ran into a question. For those of you that received QB Wings, were your AEX tie downs for the wings tapped? Mine were installed un-tapped and I wondered if that is how they are supposed to be or if I was special. Either way, this is kind of troublesome. They will have to be tapped through the hole in the wing skins and if anything goes wrong with tapping the threads, I am not sure how it could be fixed. Best Regards, Patrick 40715 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2007
From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs
Yes, my wing tiedowns are untapped also. I've been putting off the tapping for the same reason. Do it slowly, go in and out a lot, and use lot's of lube. (It's Saturday night...pun intended) Patrick ONeill wrote: > > Im finally getting through the plans review of the QB kits and ran > into a question. > > For those of you that received QB Wings, were your AEX tie downs for > the wings tapped? Mine were installed un-tapped and I wondered if that > is how they are supposed to be or if I was special. > > Either way, this is kind of troublesome. They will have to be tapped > through the hole in the wing skins and if anything goes wrong with > tapping the threads, I am not sure how it could be fixed. > > Best Regards, > > Patrick 40715 > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs
Date: Aug 05, 2007
Yes your correct you have to tap them. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick ONeill To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 12:47 PM Subject: RV10-List: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs I'm finally getting through the plans review of the QB kits and ran into a question. For those of you that received QB Wings, were your AEX tie downs for the wings tapped? Mine were installed un-tapped and I wondered if that is how they are supposed to be or if I was special. Either way, this is kind of troublesome. They will have to be tapped through the hole in the wing skins and if anything goes wrong with tapping the threads, I am not sure how it could be fixed. Best Regards, Patrick 40715 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stewart Systems (formerly AFS) paint system
From: "ddnebert" <doug(at)mapcontext.com>
Date: Aug 04, 2007
I have used the AFS "smoke grey" water based primer and have found that if you scuff and etch the aluminum first as instructed it seals very hard and durable. I haven't any experience with the exterior paint but expect when I get that far I'll have some expert assistance. (Finishing my RV-10 slow-build wings) -------- RV-10 Builder #40546 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127554#127554 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs
Date: Aug 04, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Use the correct drill bit for the tap being selected. Boe(ing) Lube is an excellent lubricant. When all else fails there is always the ability to install a Heli-coil. You are doing just fine. John 40600 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick ONeill Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 7:47 PM Subject: RV10-List: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs I'm finally getting through the plans review of the QB kits and ran into a question. For those of you that received QB Wings, were your AEX tie downs for the wings tapped? Mine were installed un-tapped and I wondered if that is how they are supposed to be or if I was special. Either way, this is kind of troublesome. They will have to be tapped through the hole in the wing skins and if anything goes wrong with tapping the threads, I am not sure how it could be fixed. Best Regards, Patrick 40715 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs
Date: Aug 04, 2007
Mine were not tapped either. I had no problem tapping them however. Aluminum is easy just take your time, use lots of oil, and back the tap out often to clear the chips. The hardest part is removing the chips when done. I think I used a que tip and gently rolled it around in the new threads to catch all the chips I could. You could practice tapping a hole in some scrap first to get the feel. It really was no big deal. In fact that is the first thing I noticed and did to my QB Wings. Dave Leikam 40496 QB wings ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick ONeill To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 8:47 PM Subject: RV10-List: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs I'm finally getting through the plans review of the QB kits and ran into a question. For those of you that received QB Wings, were your AEX tie downs for the wings tapped? Mine were installed un-tapped and I wondered if that is how they are supposed to be or if I was special. Either way, this is kind of troublesome. They will have to be tapped through the hole in the wing skins and if anything goes wrong with tapping the threads, I am not sure how it could be fixed. Best Regards, Patrick 40715 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com>
Subject: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs
Date: Aug 04, 2007
I had forgotten about heli-coils, so at least there is an option if there were to be problems. Clean up was the number two concern, especially with lots of boelube. I was wondering why the QBuilders didn't just do it, but I suppose it does make sense to leave it in case the builder desires a different threading. Thanks all for the confirmation! Best Regards, Patrick 40715 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 10:58 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs Mine were not tapped either. I had no problem tapping them however. Aluminum is easy just take your time, use lots of oil, and back the tap out often to clear the chips. The hardest part is removing the chips when done. I think I used a que tip and gently rolled it around in the new threads to catch all the chips I could. You could practice tapping a hole in some scrap first to get the feel. It really was no big deal. In fact that is the first thing I noticed and did to my QB Wings. Dave Leikam 40496 QB wings ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick ONeill <mailto:poneill(at)irealms.com> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 8:47 PM Subject: RV10-List: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs I'm finally getting through the plans review of the QB kits and ran into a question. For those of you that received QB Wings, were your AEX tie downs for the wings tapped? Mine were installed un-tapped and I wondered if that is how they are supposed to be or if I was special. Either way, this is kind of troublesome. They will have to be tapped through the hole in the wing skins and if anything goes wrong with tapping the threads, I am not sure how it could be fixed. Best Regards, Patrick 40715 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Fuel Filter
Date: Aug 05, 2007
I was wondering if anyone has any tricks/tips on cleaning the standard fuel filter in the tunnel. Primarily how to remove it without dumping fuel and the best way to clean it. Thanks, Marcus 40286 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EFDsteve(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 05, 2007
Subject: Re: Paint Quote?
Does anyone have experience with just painting the plane white and then using vinyl lettering/numbers and accents? Steve Weinstock 40230 Whats your name? Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: _flyingconnection(at)earthlink.net_ (mailto:flyingconnection(at)earthlink.net) Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 8:24 AM Subject: RV10-List: Paint Quote? New to the list... Helping a friend figure out a paint scheme for his RV-10, and will be getting quotes for having it painted. I'm wondering if anybody has recommendations? And about how much should he expect to pay for a nice looking job? _flyingconnection(at)earthlink.net_ (mailto:flyingconnection(at)earthlink.net) http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)cox.net>
Subject: Paint Quote?
Date: Aug 05, 2007
I painted my RV-8A using top end PPG Concept base/clear coat. Total cost for material was $2500. If you keep your scheme very basic (white with a stripe) and do as much labor yourself as possible, I'd guess you would be in the $8000 range for a shop to do it. The high end is whatever your pocket book can handle. Painting it yourself is not all that hard if you use forgiving paint products like PPG Concept. My plane is the yellow one in the attached photo. The other RV-8 was also painted by the builder. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (350 hrs) RV-10 (wings) ----- Original Message ----- From: flyingconnection(at)earthlink.net Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 8:24 AM Subject: RV10-List: Paint Quote? New to the list... Helping a friend figure out a paint scheme for his RV-10, and will be getting quotes for having it painted. I'm wondering if anybody has recommendations? And about how much should he expect to pay for a nice looking job? flyingconnection(at)earthlink.net _____ <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: aileron trim
Date: Aug 05, 2007
Has anyone flying installed Van's aileron trim and how do you like it? Dave Leikam 40496 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Subject: First flight video N602WT
Date: Aug 05, 2007
Hello all, As many of you already know, I recently made my first flight in my RV10 and I made a posting at that time along with a few photos. My son and son-in-law took videos that day and my son-in-law Adam has help put together a shorten version of the videos. Actually Adam did all the work of putting it together, I was just an editor of sort. So if you are interested, here is where it is posted on YouTube where you can view the video. In the bottom right corner of the YouTube screen there is a small button and if you click on this button it will show the video in full screen mode. http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=rjvjPDwR-6Q The fly off is going well so far. Boy you find that there are a lot of things that have to be tweaked once you get in the air. I've flown off nearly 20 hours so far burning up a ton of 100LL but not complaining. Wayne Edgerton #40336 flying N602WT going to paint in about 4 weeks. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: First flight video N602WT
Date: Aug 06, 2007
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Hi Wayne, Can you give us some examples of the tweaks? I am going through the 'paint before first flight, or later' debate and was curious about whether your tweaks would have affected the paint job. cheers, Ron 187 finishing (thinking about paint) ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton Sent: Monday, 6 August 2007 7:39 AM To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: First flight video N602WT Hello all, As many of you already know, I recently made my first flight in my RV10 and I made a posting at that time along with a few photos. My son and son-in-law took videos that day and my son-in-law Adam has help put together a shorten version of the videos. Actually Adam did all the work of putting it together, I was just an editor of sort. So if you are interested, here is where it is posted on YouTube where you can view the video. In the bottom right corner of the YouTube screen there is a small button and if you click on this button it will show the video in full screen mode. http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=rjvjPDwR-6Q The fly off is going well so far. Boy you find that there are a lot of things that have to be tweaked once you get in the air. I've flown off nearly 20 hours so far burning up a ton of 100LL but not complaining. Wayne Edgerton #40336 flying N602WT going to paint in about 4 weeks. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Paint Quote?
Date: Aug 05, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Yes, every one of the Cirrus units with the exception of the new Gold G3. It is a very easy process to apply. John Cox ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of EFDsteve(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 10:23 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Paint Quote? Does anyone have experience with just painting the plane white and then using vinyl lettering/numbers and accents? Steve Weinstock 40230 Whats your name? Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: flyingconnection(at)earthlink.net To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 8:24 AM Subject: RV10-List: Paint Quote? New to the list... Helping a friend figure out a paint scheme for his RV-10, and will be getting quotes for having it painted. I'm wondering if anybody has recommendations? And about how much should he expect to pay for a nice looking job? flyingconnection(at)earthlink.net ________________________________ <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Aug 05, 2007
Subject: Re: aileron trim
I would highly recommend the aileron trim..........even if you put in an AUTO PILOT. Works great as fuel loads change. Dean 805HL ________________________________________________________________________ Get Juno DSL - the easier, safer broadband! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: blast tubes
Date: Aug 05, 2007
Anybody install them? not install them? Cooling what? Results? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2007
From: Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: blast tubes
David, I'm putting in four, Alternator, each mag and the fuel pump. I used 1" flanges from Spruce and matching scat tubing instead of the Vans corrugated tube provided in the FWF kit. Rick S. 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2007 8:34:11 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RV10-List: blast tubes ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Engine bay Temps
Date: Aug 06, 2007
Anyone have an idea what temps we get in the engine bay? I was thinking of using proceal on the edges of the Kool mat to completely seal it. Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel Filter
Date: Aug 06, 2007
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com>
Just run the engine and then turn the fuel selector off and wait for the engine to quit. Then fold up about 6 or so paper towels and place then under the connections of the fuel filter, then simply remove the filter. It is not a tough job, just a pain taking off all the screws to get at the tunnel, but then you have to do it anyway to see the rest of the stuff anyway. I had lint mostly in my filter. Very easy to clean and re-install. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 N519RV (Hobbs = 295) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 10:24 AM Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Filter I was wondering if anyone has any tricks/tips on cleaning the standard fuel filter in the tunnel. Primarily how to remove it without dumping fuel and the best way to clean it. Thanks, Marcus 40286 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Hukill" <cjhukill(at)cox.net>
Subject: Paint
Date: Aug 06, 2007
I painted my RV8 white,in stages, as I built the parts, then after final assembly, had vinyl stripes applied by Eric Mann, of Freedom Signs and Graphics (775 771-3937). I designed a paint scheme, e-mailed it Eric, who had actual RV8 dimensions in his program. He fine tuned the scheme, and sent me a rendering for approval. When I flew the RV8 to Reno, he applied the prepared stripes in about an hour. The cost was only a couple hundred bucks, and you can do it yourself. Go to my website and see it http://members.cox.net/cjhukill/ The stripes have been on about 5 years now, and look as good as the day they were installed. Chris Hukill ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Filter
From: "greghale" <ghale5224(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 06, 2007
I mounted my fuel filter vertical. I used this same installation on my RV8 and it work great. The fuel filter is removed from the top. I shut off the fuel valve before removal and no spills. Greg... nwacaptain.com -------- Greg Hale rv8/rv10 www.nwacaptain.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127719#127719 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/100_1722_257.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs
Date: Aug 06, 2007
This is a no brainer, but I obviously forgot my brain when I did my tail tie down tap. I clamped it horizontal on the table. What I learned, don't do it horizontal, like with the wings in their craddle, instead, put the wings on a table so the chips that are created in the tapping process fall through the hole and don't get re incorporated into the threads you are creating. problem was the last time I had tapped anything was when I was in Junior High School. John G. >From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV10-List: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs >Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 19:47:24 -0700 > >I'm finally getting through the plans review of the QB kits and ran into a >question. > > >For those of you that received QB Wings, were your AEX tie downs for the >wings tapped? Mine were installed un-tapped and I wondered if that is how >they are supposed to be or if I was special. > > >Either way, this is kind of troublesome. They will have to be tapped >through the hole in the wing skins and if anything goes wrong with tapping >the threads, I am not sure how it could be fixed. > > >Best Regards, > >Patrick 40715 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2007
From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs
Thanks John, that may be a 'no-brainer' for some but not for me. Good tip! Haven't tapped anything since an engine mount for a Webra .61 John Gonzalez wrote: > > This is a no brainer, but I obviously forgot my brain when I did my > tail tie down tap. I clamped it horizontal on the table. > > What I learned, don't do it horizontal, like with the wings in their > craddle, instead, put the wings on a table so the chips that are > created in the tapping process fall through the hole and don't get re > incorporated into the threads you are creating. > > problem was the last time I had tapped anything was when I was in > Junior High School. > > John G. > > >> From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> >> Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> To: >> Subject: RV10-List: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs >> Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 19:47:24 -0700 >> >> I'm finally getting through the plans review of the QB kits and ran >> into a >> question. >> >> >> >> For those of you that received QB Wings, were your AEX tie downs for the >> wings tapped? Mine were installed un-tapped and I wondered if that is >> how >> they are supposed to be or if I was special. >> >> >> >> Either way, this is kind of troublesome. They will have to be tapped >> through the hole in the wing skins and if anything goes wrong with >> tapping >> the threads, I am not sure how it could be fixed. >> >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Patrick 40715 >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2007
From: Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs
Tapping for a Webra .61 ia actually harder and has more risk because the 6-32 tap will snap in a heartbeat. Anyone remember the SIG T-shaped aluminum engine mounts? Take your time, use kerosene as a lube and cut only about a turn and a half at a time. Clear the chips often and make sure you get it straight on the first few threads. Either way that's some tough metal but like eating an elephant, do it one bite at a time. Rick S. 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2007 9:18:07 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs Thanks John, that may be a 'no-brainer' for some but not for me. Good tip! Haven't tapped anything since an engine mount for a Webra .61 John Gonzalez wrote: > > This is a no brainer, but I obviously forgot my brain when I did my > tail tie down tap. I clamped it horizontal on the table. > > What I learned, don't do it horizontal, like with the wings in their > craddle, instead, put the wings on a table so the chips that are > created in the tapping process fall through the hole and don't get re > incorporated into the threads you are creating. > > problem was the last time I had tapped anything was when I was in > Junior High School. > > John G. > > >> From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> >> Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >> To: >> Subject: RV10-List: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs >> Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 19:47:24 -0700 >> >> I'm finally getting through the plans review of the QB kits and ran >> into a >> question. >> >> >> >> For those of you that received QB Wings, were your AEX tie downs for the >> wings tapped? Mine were installed un-tapped and I wondered if that is >> how >> they are supposed to be or if I was special. >> >> >> >> Either way, this is kind of troublesome. They will have to be tapped >> through the hole in the wing skins and if anything goes wrong with >> tapping >> the threads, I am not sure how it could be fixed. >> >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Patrick 40715 >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs
Use the Boelube, especially when you start to tap the smaller (6-32 or 8-32 's) in the rear fuselage section. I tried to be very careful with the #6 sc rews and even broke one off. Boelube is better than anything I have ever us ed. =0A http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/boelube.php =0A=0ASco tt Schmidt=0Ascottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ---- =0AFrom: Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, August 6, 2007 9:39:20 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: QB Win sked(at)embarqmail.com>=0A=0ATapping for a Webra .61 ia actually harder and ha s more risk because the 6-32 tap will snap in a heartbeat. Anyone remember the SIG T-shaped aluminum engine mounts?=0A=0ATake your time, use kerosene as a lube and cut only about a turn and a half at a time. Clear the chips o ften and make sure you get it straight on the first few threads. Either way that's some tough metal but like eating an elephant, do it one bite at a t ime.=0A=0ARick S.=0A40185=0A----- Original Message -----=0AFrom: "MauleDriv er" =0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, A ugust 6, 2007 9:18:07 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles=0ASubject: Re: RV10 Driver =0A=0AThanks John, that may be a 'no-brainer' for some but not for me. Good =0Atip! Haven't tapped anything since an en gine mount for a Webra .61=0A=0AJohn Gonzalez wrote:=0A> --> RV10-List mess age posted by: "John Gonzalez" =0A>=0A> This is a n o brainer, but I obviously forgot my brain when I did my =0A> tail tie down tap. I clamped it horizontal on the table.=0A>=0A> What I learned, don't do it horizontal, like with the wings in their =0A> craddle, instead, put t he wings on a table so the chips that are =0A> created in the tapping proce ss fall through the hole and don't get re =0A> incorporated into the thread s you are creating.=0A>=0A> problem was the last time I had tapped anything was when I was in =0A> Junior High School.=0A>=0A> John G.=0A>=0A>=0A>> Fr om: "Patrick ONeill" =0A>> Reply-To: rv10-list@matroni cs.com=0A>> To: =0A>> Subject: RV10-List: QB Wings - AEX Tie Downs=0A>> Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 19:47:24 -0700=0A>>=0A>> I'm fi nally getting through the plans review of the QB kits and ran =0A>> into a =0A>> question.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> For those of you that received QB Wings , were your AEX tie downs for the=0A>> wings tapped? Mine were installed un -tapped and I wondered if that is =0A>> how=0A>> they are supposed to be or if I was special.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> Either way, this is kind of troubles ome. They will have to be tapped=0A>> through the hole in the wing skins a nd if anything goes wrong with =0A>> tapping=0A>> the threads, I am not sur e how it could be fixed.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> Best Regards,=0A>>=0A>> Patric ================= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vernon Smith <planesmith(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Engine bay Temps
Date: Aug 06, 2007
I have no idea about the engine bay temperatures, however using Van's tank sealant in front of the firewall is a concern, as it is combustible even af ter it sets up. Van's firewall sealant could be used part # MC-CS-1900 and I know some use RTV to hold down the KOOL mat. There is more info on this i n the archives. Just search the words "firewall cover". Vern Smith (#324) From: VHMUM(at)bigpond.comTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RV10-List: Engin e bay TempsDate: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:40:13 +1000 Anyone have an idea what temps we get in the engine bay? I was thinking of using proseal on the edges of the Kool mat to completely seal it. Chris _________________________________________________________________ See what you=92re getting into=85before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Engine bay Temps
Date: Aug 07, 2007
Thanks Vern I have the correct glue to hold the Koolmat down its just the edges to seal them . Will get some 1900 thanks Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Vernon Smith To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 7:17 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine bay Temps I have no idea about the engine bay temperatures, however using Van's tank sealant in front of the firewall is a concern, as it is combustible even after it sets up. Van's firewall sealant could be used part # MC-CS-1900 and I know some use RTV to hold down the KOOL mat. There is more info on this in the archives. Just search the words "firewall cover". Vern Smith (#324) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: VHMUM(at)bigpond.com To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Engine bay Temps Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:40:13 +1000 Anyone have an idea what temps we get in the engine bay? I was thinking of using proseal on the edges of the Kool mat to completely seal it. Chris get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List p://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what you=92re getting into=85before you go there See it! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 06, 2007
Subject: Flying RV10 List with pictures
Can someone point me in the right direction for the web site with pictures of all the flying RV-10's? Thanks, Rob Hickman N401RH RV-4 (Soon to be 4 Sale) N402RH RV-10 (Thinking about Paint) http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Flying RV10 List with pictures
Date: Aug 06, 2007
www.vansairforce.net >From: RobHickman(at)aol.com >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Flying RV10 List with pictures >Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:16:12 EDT > >Can someone point me in the right direction for the web site with pictures >of all the flying RV-10's? > > >Thanks, > >Rob Hickman >N401RH RV-4 (Soon to be 4 Sale) >N402RH RV-10 (Thinking about Paint) > > >http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Caf open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com>
Subject: Flying RV10 List with pictures
Date: Aug 06, 2007
http://www.vansairforce.net/rv10.htm send photos of your panel eh!!! -Ben PDX 40579 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RobHickman(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 6:16 PM Subject: RV10-List: Flying RV10 List with pictures Can someone point me in the right direction for the web site with pictures of all the flying RV-10's? Thanks, Rob Hickman N401RH RV-4 (Soon to be 4 Sale) N402RH RV-10 (Thinking about Paint) _____ AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jay Hansen" <jay_b_hansen(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-10 Budgets
Date: Aug 07, 2007
I am in the initial planning (and wife convincing) stage, and it would really help if I could find some budgets on completed or planned RV-10's. The main thing these will tell me is what does not come with the quick-build kit. Thanks, Jay Hansen jay_b_hansen(at)hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more.then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene-0607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dsyvert(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 06, 2007
Subject: Re: Flying RV10 List with pictures
Rob, I am having the same thought and have not found a blank picture to sketch on. Below is a link for a desk top model of an RV-10 for $58. _http://cgi.ebay.com/Vans-Vans-RV-10-Airplane-Wood-Model_W0QQitemZ270150507417 QQcmdZViewItem_ (http://cgi.ebay.com/Vans-Vans-RV-10-Airplane-Wood-Model_W0QQitemZ270150507417QQcmdZViewItem) Dave Syvertson 40625 fuselage http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-10 Budgets
From: "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net>
Date: Aug 06, 2007
Jay, Here's my spreadsheet. It's a work in progress but I think it's ballpark. I'm sure there's things I have left off, (heated pitot for instance) but it's good enough to buget with I think. I have my empacone and have built my rudder, VS, HS, and my elevators are primed and ready to rivet. The only other thing I've purchased to this point is the VP-200 wiring harness. Hope you find this helpful. -------- Todd Stovall 728TT (reserved) RV-10 Empacone Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127913#127913 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rv10_cost_102.xls ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 07, 2007
Subject: Re: RV-10 Budgets
Jay, This may not help with the wife convincing at all. Attached is my actual costs for (almost) everything. I gave up filling this out about 6 months before getting my RV-10 in the air. I'd guess another $1000 (or $2000 or $3000) more on misc. stuff. The list is chronological, so it's a mess, but everything is in there. Totals are on the last sheet. You'll find all the big stuff listed, but it's the nickel and dime (read $100 to $200) stuff and included shipping charges that really adds up. -Jim 40134 - Completing my first annual inspection In a message dated 8/6/2007 10:44:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jay_b_hansen(at)hotmail.com writes: --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jay Hansen" I am in the initial planning (and wife convincing) stage, and it would really help if I could find some budgets on completed or planned RV-10's. The main thing these will tell me is what does not come with the quick-build kit. Thanks, Jay Hansen jay_b_hansen(at)hotmail.com Jim "Scooter" McGrew _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew) http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flying RV10 List with pictures
Date: Aug 07, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Tim has the 3 view drawings for anyone to download and draw on for paint schemes. Dan N289DT RV10E Flying _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dsyvert(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 11:35 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flying RV10 List with pictures Rob, I am having the same thought and have not found a blank picture to sketch on. Below is a link for a desk top model of an RV-10 for $58. http://cgi.ebay.com/Vans-Vans-RV-10-Airplane-Wood-Model_W0QQitemZ2701505 07417QQcmdZViewItem Dave Syvertson 40625 fuselage _____ <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 2007
From: "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com>
Subject: Re: high oil temp
I've been following along on this thread and am a bit confused by the references being made to "with louvers or without louvers". Can some one please clarify this or direct me to some pictures. Are these the cut-out in the bottom of the cowl?? I will not be using the van's firewall forward kit as I am using an engine and many of the accesories from Cherokee 6-260 including the oil cooler. (its the pma'd one stewart warner one). I'm planning on just buying the ff accesories I need piece wise as needed, (such as the filtered air box). Thanks for the input. ( finally done with slow build chapter 29!!) -Bob Newman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel Simmons" <noels(at)midrivers.com>
Subject: RV-10 Budgets
Date: Aug 07, 2007
Doggy days and doggy dollars, and if you are like me and have a hound over 75lbs it is X9 not X7 as the usual. Noel Working on Simmons-RV number 27 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Hansen Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 8:40 PM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Budgets I am in the initial planning (and wife convincing) stage, and it would really help if I could find some budgets on completed or planned RV-10's. The main thing these will tell me is what does not come with the quick-build kit. Thanks, Jay Hansen jay_b_hansen(at)hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more..then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater &cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene-060 7&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: high oil temp
Date: Aug 07, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
The louvers are part of the Finish kit and get installed into the lower cowling to help dissipate heat. Some builders have been choosing to not install them, and others have installed them. They are installed from inside the cowl, and can be added at a later date if necessary, but if you do it after paint extra care will have to be taken, but definitely doable. Dan N289DT RV10E Flying -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Newman Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 10:21 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: high oil temp I've been following along on this thread and am a bit confused by the references being made to "with louvers or without louvers". Can some one please clarify this or direct me to some pictures. Are these the cut-out in the bottom of the cowl?? I will not be using the van's firewall forward kit as I am using an engine and many of the accesories from Cherokee 6-260 including the oil cooler. (its the pma'd one stewart warner one). I'm planning on just buying the ff accesories I need piece wise as needed, (such as the filtered air box). Thanks for the input. ( finally done with slow build chapter 29!!) -Bob Newman ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: high oil temp
I think there may be a misunderstanding. The louvers most of us are talkin g about are not included in the kit but are purchased http://www.aviationte chproducts.com/html/accessories.html . I think everyone has the louvers in stalled that Van's included, but many are adding additional louvers to incr ease airflow. http://www.aviationtechproducts.com/html/products_pics.html# louver11=0A =0AScott Schmidt=0Ascottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Ori ginal Message ----=0AFrom: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, August 7, 2007 8:05:23 AM=0ASubjec t: RE: RV10-List: Re: high oil temp=0A=0A=0A--> RV10-List message posted by : "Lloyd, Daniel R." =0A=0AThe louvers are part of th e Finish kit and get installed into the lower=0Acowling to help dissipate h eat. Some builders have been choosing to not=0Ainstall them, and others hav e installed them. They are installed from=0Ainside the cowl, and can be add ed at a later date if necessary, but if=0Ayou do it after paint extra care will have to be taken, but definitely=0Adoable.=0ADan=0AN289DT RV10E Flying =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics. com=0A[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Newman =0ASent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 10:21 AM=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0A "Bob Newman" =0A=0A=0AI've been following along on thi s thread and am a bit confused by the=0Areferences being made to "with louv ers or without louvers". Can some=0Aone please clarify this or direct me to some pictures. Are these the=0Acut-out in the bottom of the cowl?? =0A=0AI will not be using the van's firewall forward kit as I am using an =0Aengine and many of the accesories from Cherokee 6-260 including the oil =0Acooler. (its the pma'd one stewart warner one). I'm planning on=0Aj ust buying the ff accesories I need piece wise as needed, (such as the=0Af iltered air box).=0A=0A=0AThanks for the input.=0A=0A( finally done with sl ow build chapter 29!!)=0A=0A-Bob Newman=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ====================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Aug 07, 2007
Subject: Trade-a-plane spec -10's
Kinda quiet around here so I thought I would throw this out. There are 4 s pec built RV-10's in the Trade a Plane that was handed out at OSH this year . And just so I'm clear, I call it spec if it's right around it's fly-off time and is for sale. Two had websites: http://www.2bumsaircraft.com/index.html http://www3.telus.net/elfrench/RV-10_main.htm Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: high oil temp
Date: Aug 07, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Cool, thanks for the link. I was confused, I did not know that people were adding more. At least now I have an option for additional airflow. THX Dan N289DT RV10E Flying _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 12:03 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: high oil temp I think there may be a misunderstanding. The louvers most of us are talking about are not included in the kit but are purchased http://www.aviationtechproducts.com/html/accessories.html . I think everyone has the louvers installed that Van's included, but many are adding additional louvers to increase airflow. http://www.aviationtechproducts.com/html/products_pics.html#louver11 Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2007 8:05:23 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: high oil temp The louvers are part of the Finish kit and get installed into the lower cowling to help dissipate heat. Some builders have been choosing to not install them, and others have installed them. They are installed from inside the cowl, and can be added at a later date if necessary, but if you do it after paint extra care will have to be taken, but definitely doable. Dan N289DT RV10E Flying -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Newman Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 10:21 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: high oil temp I've been following along on this thread and am a bit confused by the references being made to "with louvers or without louvers". Can some one please clarify this or direct me to some pictures. Are these the cut-out in the bottom of the cowl?? I will not be using the van's firewall forward kit as I am using an engine and many of the accesories from Cherokee 6-260 including the oil cooler. (its the pma'd one stewart warner one). I'm planning on just buying the ff accesories I need piece wise as needed, (such as the filtered air box). Thanks for the input. ( finally done with slow build chapter 29!!) -Bob New10-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <toaster73(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Andair Fuel Valve
Date: Aug 07, 2007
Looked at the archives for some advice on which valve is the latest and greatest. SO what is the consensus these days on the model valve to go with and where is the best place to get one. Tim Olson, I think you mentioned if you did it over again you would utilize the universal joint out there no?. Is the best mount setup to use extensions and mount the valve down in the tunnel or go for right up against the tunnel cover? Looks like PN fs20x3 is the choice and have 90 deg elbow supplied by andair put on, but should I go with universal at both ends with 6inch ext.? Thanks Chris Lucas #40072 fuselage and mods (mods take time) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Mrkvicka" <jsmrk(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Test
Date: Aug 07, 2007
Sorry folks - testing my ability to receive mail from you all. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: high oil temp
Date: Aug 07, 2007
In addtion to the louvers that come with the finish kit I installed the louvers sold by Alex D. They really helped bring the high oil temp down. >From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: high oil temp >Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:05:23 -0400 > > >The louvers are part of the Finish kit and get installed into the lower >cowling to help dissipate heat. Some builders have been choosing to not >install them, and others have installed them. They are installed from >inside the cowl, and can be added at a later date if necessary, but if >you do it after paint extra care will have to be taken, but definitely >doable. >Dan >N289DT RV10E Flying > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Newman >Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 10:21 AM >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Re: high oil temp > > >I've been following along on this thread and am a bit confused by the >references being made to "with louvers or without louvers". Can some >one please clarify this or direct me to some pictures. Are these the >cut-out in the bottom of the cowl?? > >I will not be using the van's firewall forward kit as I am using an >engine and many of the accesories from Cherokee 6-260 including the oil >cooler. (its the pma'd one stewart warner one). I'm planning on >just buying the ff accesories I need piece wise as needed, (such as the >filtered air box). > > >Thanks for the input. > >( finally done with slow build chapter 29!!) > >-Bob Newman > > _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Caf open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 2007
Subject: Re: Andair Fuel Valve
Chris, There will never be a consensus on any topic... except maybe that the RV-10 is the airplane of choice. Mods do take time. Personally, I went with the standard Van's fuel valve. It works great. I did make one mod that allows for error-resistant (I won't claim error-proof) operation without having to look down. I put 2 screws with 1/4" aluminum tube spacers in the tunnel cover. I simply grab the screw and squeeze the lever until it lines up. For OFF you rotate the lever aft. Very simple. See attached picture. -Jim 40134 - First annual taking longer than I'd like In a message dated 8/7/2007 5:01:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, toaster73(at)earthlink.net writes: Looked at the archives for some advice on which valve is the latest and greatest. SO what is the consensus these days on the model valve to go with and where is the best place to get one. Tim Olson, I think you mentioned if you did it over again you would utilize the universal joint out there no?. Is the best mount setup to use extensions and mount the valve down in the tunnel or go for right up against the tunnel cover? Looks like PN fs20x3 is the choice and have 90 deg elbow supplied by andair put on, but should I go with universal at both ends with 6inch ext.? Thanks Chris Lucas #40072 fuselage and mods (mods take time) Jim "Scooter" McGrew _http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew) http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Andair Fuel Valve
Date: Aug 08, 2007
You can also use the valve that comes withe the kit and purchase the Cleveland valve handle they make for RV10. It looks nice and does not need any modifications. Rob. On Aug 7, 2007, at 4:58 PM, wrote: > Looked at the archives for some advice on which valve is the latest > and greatest. SO what is the consensus these days on the model > valve to go with and where is the best place to get one. Tim Olson, > I think you mentioned if you did it over again you would utilize > the universal joint out there no?. > Is the best mount setup to use extensions and mount the valve down > in the tunnel or go for right up against the tunnel cover? > Looks like PN fs20x3 is the choice and have 90 deg elbow supplied > by andair put on, but should I go with universal at both ends with > 6inch ext.? > Thanks > Chris Lucas > #40072 > fuselage and mods (mods take time) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2007
From: "Bob Newman" <rnewman(at)lutron.com>
Subject: Re: Andair Fuel Valve
I need to weigh in on this one. I have an Andair valve installed in our Glastar and we did have an issue with their Female Pipe Thread inlets. I am installing an Andair valve in my RV-10 but with the following note. In the glastar, like the Rv-10, a 90 degree turn is needed after exiting the valve. To do this we installed 90 elbows (AN822), AN flare to male pipe thread. We had a terrible time getting the pipe threads to seal with the proper clocking of the elbows. We tried many types of sealant including the highly recommended Fuelube, Finally the only thing that seemed to work was a product called Blue-Block which is much more viscous than other sealants I've used and rated for gasoline. It worked from 1999 till our conditional inspection in Nov of 2006. I found that these fitting were still weeping fuel. I removed the fittings and changed them over to the new modular 90 degree cast AN-6 series fittings that Andair now makes, thus completely eliminating the tapered pipe thread connections from the system. (now flared AN connections bolt right up to the Andair Valve heading in the right direction). The engineer in me though says, what caused these pipe threads to not seal? Upon inspection of the old andair female pipe thread modular adapters I noticed that the threads did not seem to be cut deep enough into the part with respect to engaging the tapered thread. I believe that this was causing the male pipe thread part (elbow) to bottom out within the Andair part instead of allowing the joint to get suitably tight by the tapered geometry. So the lesson in my book is to check your fittings before assembly and ensure they can fully engage. On my RV-10 fuel valve I am using the one with the straight extension and the cast 90 degree modular elbows. Bob Newman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Aug 09, 2007
Subject: RV flyin at Tea, SD
Who is going to the first ANNUAL North Central RV flyin? Check out the info on Vansairforce.net. Dean 805HL ________________________________________________________________________ Get Juno DSL - the easier, safer broadband! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2007
From: Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: RTV As a sealant
Hi As I work through the firewall, I noticed that the plans call for Pro-Seal to seal the firewall recess as well as around the air vents. Is there any issue in using RTV 732 as a sealant in this type of application? Aside from fuel tanks, when would use of pro-seal be essential versus something like RTV? Inquiring minds need to know... Les Kearney #40643 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Additional Hardware / Items required for FWF Kit?
From: "Michael Wellenzohn" <rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net>
Date: Aug 08, 2007
Hello, I ordered my TMX-IO540 and Vans FWF Kit. What else will I need to complete the engine installation (I have already the rubber hoses replaced by Teflon ones)? Best Regards Michael -------- RV-10 builder (wings) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128232#128232 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Prop Grease
Date: Aug 09, 2007
Does anyone have handy the guidance on greasing the Hartzell prop hub? Specifically which grease and any application guidance beyond squirt it in the port until it shoots everywhere? Thanks, Marcus 40286 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2007
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Prop Grease
Most of them come with a decal specifying the grease, usually Aeroshell 6, you remove two of the 4 zerk fittings and pump gently until grease appears at the opposite zerk you removed (same side of hub). Do not force it at all. You do not want grease coming out the prop blade seals..it will start a leak. On 8/9/07, Marcus Cooper wrote: > > > Does anyone have handy the guidance on greasing the Hartzell prop hub? > Specifically which grease and any application guidance beyond squirt it in > the port until it shoots everywhere? > > Thanks, > Marcus > 40286 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Troubleshooting a MAG drop.
Date: Aug 09, 2007
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com>
Guys, I just wanted to share my recent experience of trouble shooting a MAG drop I was having on my RV-10. I was flying back from my Canada trip and finished the first two legs without any issue. On my final leg I did the usual engine run-up to 1900 RPM and checked the MAG's. Right side dropped the usual 60-80 RPM while the Left dropped 120 RPM and the engine started to run rough. I leaned the crap out of it on the ground and it got a little better, so I decided to fly the last leg anyway. When I got back on the ground after running it for 2 hours LOP, I checked the MAG's before shutdown, and it was still dropping and running rough on the Left MAG. My friend, Brian Reiter came over and we pulled/cleaned/gapped the plugs because we were heading to Oshkosh the next day in the RV10. We also swapped the top plugs to the bottom and the bottom to the top. My plugs are all Unison UREM38E. The plugs did not look bad at all. After doing all of this, the MAG drop issue was gone. We flew to Osh, had a great time, and flew back and no problems with MAG drops. Then after putting another 3 hours on the plane, the MAG drops started on the Right MAG (notice before it was the Left MAG, but now the plugs were switched top for bottom). Now I started asking questions and tracing the MAG wires to the Plugs and this is what I learned. Right MAG runs the Top Plugs for Cylinder #1, 3, 5 and the Bottom Plugs for Cylinder #2, 4, 6. Left MAG runs the Top Plugs of Cylinder #2, 4, 6 and the Bottom Plugs for Cylinder #1, 3, 5. With this info, I knew which ones to start looking at. I had just cleaned all the top plugs again, since originally I thought the Right MAG ran all the Top Plugs (NOT), and they were all spotless. Then since the Right MAG also ran the Bottom plugs of Cylinder #2, 4, 6, I cleaned them again (in an ultrasonic bath) and they were spotless, the gap was fine. I re-installed the plugs with new copper washers and the Right MAG was still dropping 120 RPM and running rough. Time to go home for the day. The next evening, I thought why not start the engine, then immediately switch to the right MAG and watch the Temps on Dynon Engine Monitor to see which cylinder isn't firing. This was the trick, by starting the engine and immediately switching to the bad MAG, it didn't let the EGT's get very hot while the key-switch was on BOTH after starting. Now I observed the EGT of 5 of the cylinders were at 1200 degrees and climbing while my number #2 Cylinder was at 600 degrees and dropping (because this Clyinder was not firing when only on one MAG). Now that I knew #2 Bottom Plug was bad (285 hours on it), I change it out and my problem was resolved. I then went back and looked at the plug again, and most people I showed it to couldn't see anything wrong with it, but the porclin insulator inside the plug had a black residue (about the size of a pencil eraser end) on the wall about half way down. This plug was arcing across from the spring to the outer shell through the insulator instead of at the tip of the plug. I learned a lot during all of this, like which MAG runs what Plugs and that having an Engine Monitor on all Cylinders for CHT and EGT is an awesome troubleshooting tool as well. Anyway I thought I would share this with others that may not have grown up with these Engines either. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 N519RV (Hobbs=295) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2007
From: Perry Casson-home <pcasson(at)sasktel.net>
Subject: cowl insulation
Hi All, Before I run the engine with the cowling on I'm looking for ideas on how much thermal protection you guys have or wish you had put on the lower cowling to keep the exhaust heat from blistering the paint. On the last airplane I used this stuff http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/mufflerheatshieldkit.php glued on with hi-temp silicon and it worked real well. Perry Casson - getting ready for final inspection Regina Canada http://casson.2y.net/rv-10 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Troubleshooting a MAG drop.
I love hearing about these type of events! THANKS for taking the time to post this. For me it was very educational and well within the context and framework of what I've come to hope for and expect from the RV10 community. GOOD Job !. For most of us still building, the events that can/will occur when flying are still unknown, and tips and experience like this related goes a long way to keeping the 'fleet' healthy. Deems Davis #406 :"it;s all done.... just not put together yet!" of keeping us a Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote: > > Guys, I just wanted to share my recent experience of trouble shooting a MAG drop I was having on my RV-10. > > I was flying back from my Canada trip and finished the first two legs without any issue. On my final leg I did the usual engine run-up to 1900 RPM and checked the MAG's. Right side dropped the usual 60-80 RPM while the Left dropped 120 RPM and the engine started to run rough. I leaned the crap out of it on the ground and it got a little better, so I decided to fly the last leg anyway. When I got back on the ground after running it for 2 hours LOP, I checked the MAG's before shutdown, and it was still dropping and running rough on the Left MAG. > > My friend, Brian Reiter came over and we pulled/cleaned/gapped the plugs because we were heading to Oshkosh the next day in the RV10. We also swapped the top plugs to the bottom and the bottom to the top. My plugs are all Unison UREM38E. The plugs did not look bad at all. After doing all of this, the MAG drop issue was gone. We flew to Osh, had a great time, and flew back and no problems with MAG drops. Then after putting another 3 hours on the plane, the MAG drops started on the Right MAG (notice before it was the Left MAG, but now the plugs were switched top for bottom). Now I started asking questions and tracing the MAG wires to the Plugs and this is what I learned. > > Right MAG runs the Top Plugs for Cylinder #1, 3, 5 and the Bottom Plugs for Cylinder #2, 4, 6. > > Left MAG runs the Top Plugs of Cylinder #2, 4, 6 and the Bottom Plugs for Cylinder #1, 3, 5. > > With this info, I knew which ones to start looking at. I had just cleaned all the top plugs again, since originally I thought the Right MAG ran all the Top Plugs (NOT), and they were all spotless. Then since the Right MAG also ran the Bottom plugs of Cylinder #2, 4, 6, I cleaned them again (in an ultrasonic bath) and they were spotless, the gap was fine. I re-installed the plugs with new copper washers and the Right MAG was still dropping 120 RPM and running rough. Time to go home for the day. > > The next evening, I thought why not start the engine, then immediately switch to the right MAG and watch the Temps on Dynon Engine Monitor to see which cylinder isn't firing. This was the trick, by starting the engine and immediately switching to the bad MAG, it didn't let the EGT's get very hot while the key-switch was on BOTH after starting. Now I observed the EGT of 5 of the cylinders were at 1200 degrees and climbing while my number #2 Cylinder was at 600 degrees and dropping (because this Clyinder was not firing when only on one MAG). > > Now that I knew #2 Bottom Plug was bad (285 hours on it), I change it out and my problem was resolved. I then went back and looked at the plug again, and most people I showed it to couldn't see anything wrong with it, but the porclin insulator inside the plug had a black residue (about the size of a pencil eraser end) on the wall about half way down. This plug was arcing across from the spring to the outer shell through the insulator instead of at the tip of the plug. > > I learned a lot during all of this, like which MAG runs what Plugs and that having an Engine Monitor on all Cylinders for CHT and EGT is an awesome troubleshooting tool as well. Anyway I thought I would share this with others that may not have grown up with these Engines either. > > > Thank You > Ray Doerr > 40250 > N519RV (Hobbs=295) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Prop Grease
I don't have my manual with me but I do know it calls to insert the grease from one side (leading edge or trailing edge of prop blade). =0ANot sure i f that makes a big difference but you might as well follow the directions e xactly. Can someone verify that? =0A =0AScott Schmidt=0Ascottmschmidt@yaho o.com=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Kelly McMullen <apilot 2(at)gmail.com>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, August 9, 2007 5:53:01 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Prop Grease=0A=0AMost of them come wi th a decal specifying the grease, usually Aeroshell 6, you remove two of th e 4 zerk fittings and pump gently until grease appears at the opposite zerk you removed (same side of hub). Do not force it at all. You do not want gr ease coming out the prop blade seals..it will start a leak. =0A=0A=0AOn 8/9 /07, Marcus Cooper wrote:=0A--> RV10-List message pos ted by: "Marcus Cooper" =0A=0ADoes anyone have handy t he guidance on greasing the Hartzell prop hub?=0ASpecifically which grease ================ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Additional Hardware / Items required for FWF Kit?
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
Date: Aug 09, 2007
I am at the same point as Michael W. Ordered same pkg. I think that I will delete the Oil Cooler from the FWF kit from Vans ($260 credt) and get the Airflow Oil Cooler. I am in Nevada and hope that the Airflow unit keeps the oil temps lower. Any experience out there with the airflow in hot climates. How bout a bit of help on what else we might need???? -------- OSH '08 or Bust Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128286#128286 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Troubleshooting a MAG drop.
Date: Aug 09, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Ray Great write up and outstanding technical troubleshooting. These types of stories should be collected and archived so that we all can learn from each others experiences. I have heard many people having this same problem and spending large amounts of money to get it corrected. Nice, easy and well thought out solution. THX for sharing Dan N289DT RV10E Flying -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 9:17 AM Subject: RV10-List: Troubleshooting a MAG drop. Guys, I just wanted to share my recent experience of trouble shooting a MAG drop I was having on my RV-10. I was flying back from my Canada trip and finished the first two legs without any issue. On my final leg I did the usual engine run-up to 1900 RPM and checked the MAG's. Right side dropped the usual 60-80 RPM while the Left dropped 120 RPM and the engine started to run rough. I leaned the crap out of it on the ground and it got a little better, so I decided to fly the last leg anyway. When I got back on the ground after running it for 2 hours LOP, I checked the MAG's before shutdown, and it was still dropping and running rough on the Left MAG. My friend, Brian Reiter came over and we pulled/cleaned/gapped the plugs because we were heading to Oshkosh the next day in the RV10. We also swapped the top plugs to the bottom and the bottom to the top. My plugs are all Unison UREM38E. The plugs did not look bad at all. After doing all of this, the MAG drop issue was gone. We flew to Osh, had a great time, and flew back and no problems with MAG drops. Then after putting another 3 hours on the plane, the MAG drops started on the Right MAG (notice before it was the Left MAG, but now the plugs were switched top for bottom). Now I started asking questions and tracing the MAG wires to the Plugs and this is what I learned. Right MAG runs the Top Plugs for Cylinder #1, 3, 5 and the Bottom Plugs for Cylinder #2, 4, 6. Left MAG runs the Top Plugs of Cylinder #2, 4, 6 and the Bottom Plugs for Cylinder #1, 3, 5. With this info, I knew which ones to start looking at. I had just cleaned all the top plugs again, since originally I thought the Right MAG ran all the Top Plugs (NOT), and they were all spotless. Then since the Right MAG also ran the Bottom plugs of Cylinder #2, 4, 6, I cleaned them again (in an ultrasonic bath) and they were spotless, the gap was fine. I re-installed the plugs with new copper washers and the Right MAG was still dropping 120 RPM and running rough. Time to go home for the day. The next evening, I thought why not start the engine, then immediately switch to the right MAG and watch the Temps on Dynon Engine Monitor to see which cylinder isn't firing. This was the trick, by starting the engine and immediately switching to the bad MAG, it didn't let the EGT's get very hot while the key-switch was on BOTH after starting. Now I observed the EGT of 5 of the cylinders were at 1200 degrees and climbing while my number #2 Cylinder was at 600 degrees and dropping (because this Clyinder was not firing when only on one MAG). Now that I knew #2 Bottom Plug was bad (285 hours on it), I change it out and my problem was resolved. I then went back and looked at the plug again, and most people I showed it to couldn't see anything wrong with it, but the porclin insulator inside the plug had a black residue (about the size of a pencil eraser end) on the wall about half way down. This plug was arcing across from the spring to the outer shell through the insulator instead of at the tip of the plug. I learned a lot during all of this, like which MAG runs what Plugs and that having an Engine Monitor on all Cylinders for CHT and EGT is an awesome troubleshooting tool as well. Anyway I thought I would share this with others that may not have grown up with these Engines either. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 N519RV (Hobbs=295) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Additional Hardware / Items required for FWF Kit?
Here are a few additional items I purchased for the FWF. =0A I ordered 6 of the eyeball devices http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/eyeballf w.php for the prop, throttle and mixture control as well as my electronic i gnition. =0AI then ordered 2 or 3 of these for taking wires through the fi rewall. Just order the largest if you use them.They are expensive but they are nice. http://www.epm-avcorp.com/tubeseal.html=0AI also upgraded my he ater vents the stainless version http://www.epm-avcorp.com/ssdiv.html=0A =0AHere is a shot of the eyeball devices I used. =0Ahttp://www.scottandran ae.smugmug.com/gallery/518426#53556340=0A =0AYou mainly just have to consid er the things you are going to put on the firewall to get all the wires and cables through. =0A =0AScott Schmidt=0Ascottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2007
Subject: Re: Congrats to Ray - Kitplanes Sept 2007
From: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net>
Marc Cook wrote: > How would you--and, for that matter, the rest of the community > here--feel about this feature going to the web so that these entries are > much more real time? Or is it just that much cooler to actually see your > project on the page? You tell me. Definitely prefer to keep it in the magazine. Also having it on the web is a great idea! Thanks, -Dj ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2007
From: Sam Marlow <sam(at)fr8dog.net>
Subject: Re: Prop Grease
I just talked to the factory a couple of weeks ago, they said 1oz, from front to back, per side per /year! /Grease type is Shell as specified in the manual. Marcus Cooper wrote: > > Does anyone have handy the guidance on greasing the Hartzell prop hub? > Specifically which grease and any application guidance beyond squirt it in > the port until it shoots everywhere? > > Thanks, > Marcus > 40286 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Prop Grease
Date: Aug 09, 2007
Thanks for all the responses, great information from everyone. For anyone else that may need it, I found the Hartzell service letter on this and have attached it. Marcus 40286 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:53 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Prop Grease Most of them come with a decal specifying the grease, usually Aeroshell 6, you remove two of the 4 zerk fittings and pump gently until grease appears at the opposite zerk you removed (same side of hub). Do not force it at all. You do not want grease coming out the prop blade seals..it will start a leak. On 8/9/07, Marcus Cooper wrote: Does anyone have handy the guidance on greasing the Hartzell prop hub? Specifically which grease and any application guidance beyond squirt it in ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Dunne" <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au>
Subject: Prop Grease
Date: Aug 10, 2007
An important thing is. don't try to purge the old grease with new grease by continually pumping grease through to the opposite side. This will invariably go over the back of the bearing and start filling the hub. Vibration and pesky leaks will follow. I have attached the volume from the Hartzell standard practices concerning current practice and some other detail for balance and storage. John 40315 From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper Sent: Friday, 10 August 2007 8:06 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Prop Grease Thanks for all the responses, great information from everyone. For anyone else that may need it, I found the Hartzell service letter on this and have attached it. Marcus 40286 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:53 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Prop Grease Most of them come with a decal specifying the grease, usually Aeroshell 6, you remove two of the 4 zerk fittings and pump gently until grease appears at the opposite zerk you removed (same side of hub). Do not force it at all. You do not want grease coming out the prop blade seals..it will start a leak. On 8/9/07, Marcus Cooper wrote: Does anyone have handy the guidance on greasing the Hartzell prop hub? Specifically which grease and any application guidance beyond squirt it in ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Troubleshooting a MAG drop.
Date: Aug 09, 2007
Good job Ray, On the old RV-4, my standard practice was to switch the engine monitor to the expanded/normalized EGT mode for the runup and mag check. Normal indication on ether single mag by itself would be a relatively uniform rise in all EGTs due to slower combustion process with one ignition source. Any abnormal cylinder becomes readily apparent. With a single electronic ignition, the change will not be as dramatic but should still register. Dick Sipp RV10 N110DV ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Best way to trim the door?
From: "nick(at)nleonard.com" <nick(at)nleonard.com>
Date: Aug 09, 2007
For those of you that have already fitted the doors to the frame, what did you do to get a good (45 degree?) angle on the door frame. Did anybody try to route it? Trying to do it with a hand tool seems a little rough or does that work well enough? I could use some good suggestions here before I mess things up. Thanks, Nick (40015, finish) Sacramento, CA nick(at)nleonard.com 916-425-1064 -------- Nick Leonard RV-10 (40015) Finish Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128420#128420 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Troubleshooting a MAG drop.
Date: Aug 10, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Excellent post on the problem, troubleshooting and eventual solution. Everyone should remember the little ditty from Champion at OSH and that I first learned in A&P school. "Drop it Once, Drop it twice!" The second time into the trash. These plugs are expensive and there is a desire to shrug off the slight shock which can contribute to a cracked insulator. Your's was probably not from handling, installation or shipping, just bad luck. The second point is that the copper crush rings should be installed New each time. Being cheap, many mechanics will recycle them which Champion says creates a 0.004" movement of the plug deeper into the combustion chamber. Cracked heads are more expensive than the crush rings. Fly Often, Fly Safe, Live Long John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R [NTK] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 6:17 AM Subject: RV10-List: Troubleshooting a MAG drop. Guys, I just wanted to share my recent experience of trouble shooting a MAG drop I was having on my RV-10. I was flying back from my Canada trip and finished the first two legs without any issue. On my final leg I did the usual engine run-up to 1900 RPM and checked the MAG's. Right side dropped the usual 60-80 RPM while the Left dropped 120 RPM and the engine started to run rough. I leaned the crap out of it on the ground and it got a little better, so I decided to fly the last leg anyway. When I got back on the ground after running it for 2 hours LOP, I checked the MAG's before shutdown, and it was still dropping and running rough on the Left MAG. My friend, Brian Reiter came over and we pulled/cleaned/gapped the plugs because we were heading to Oshkosh the next day in the RV10. We also swapped the top plugs to the bottom and the bottom to the top. My plugs are all Unison UREM38E. The plugs did not look bad at all. After doing all of this, the MAG drop issue was gone. We flew to Osh, had a great time, and flew back and no problems with MAG drops. Then after putting another 3 hours on the plane, the MAG drops started on the Right MAG (notice before it was the Left MAG, but now the plugs were switched top for bottom). Now I started asking questions and tracing the MAG wires to the Plugs and this is what I learned. Right MAG runs the Top Plugs for Cylinder #1, 3, 5 and the Bottom Plugs for Cylinder #2, 4, 6. Left MAG runs the Top Plugs of Cylinder #2, 4, 6 and the Bottom Plugs for Cylinder #1, 3, 5. With this info, I knew which ones to start looking at. I had just cleaned all the top plugs again, since originally I thought the Right MAG ran all the Top Plugs (NOT), and they were all spotless. Then since the Right MAG also ran the Bottom plugs of Cylinder #2, 4, 6, I cleaned them again (in an ultrasonic bath) and they were spotless, the gap was fine. I re-installed the plugs with new copper washers and the Right MAG was still dropping 120 RPM and running rough. Time to go home for the day. The next evening, I thought why not start the engine, then immediately switch to the right MAG and watch the Temps on Dynon Engine Monitor to see which cylinder isn't firing. This was the trick, by starting the engine and immediately switching to the bad MAG, it didn't let the EGT's get very hot while the key-switch was on BOTH after starting. Now I observed the EGT of 5 of the cylinders were at 1200 degrees and climbing while my number #2 Cylinder was at 600 degrees and dropping (because this Clyinder was not firing when only on one MAG). Now that I knew #2 Bottom Plug was bad (285 hours on it), I change it out and my problem was resolved. I then went back and looked at the plug again, and most people I showed it to couldn't see anything wrong with it, but the porclin insulator inside the plug had a black residue (about the size of a pencil eraser end) on the wall about half way down. This plug was arcing across from the spring to the outer shell through the insulator instead of at the tip of the plug. I learned a lot during all of this, like which MAG runs what Plugs and that having an Engine Monitor on all Cylinders for CHT and EGT is an awesome troubleshooting tool as well. Anyway I thought I would share this with others that may not have grown up with these Engines either. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 N519RV (Hobbs=295) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Seat Frames - Group buy update
Date: Aug 10, 2007
From: "James, Peter [SD]" <Peter.James(at)sprint.com>
Hello, Just before OSH, I posted a note to let people know that I had had high back seat frames made for my RV-10. I didn't get pictures posted before the show.... but we did have the frames at the Cleveland Tool both at AirVenture. Many came by to look, but only one actual order was placed. What surprised me most was how many 6, 7, and 9 drivers were interested in having high seat backs in their planes. Cleveland has now posted pictures of the frames inside my fuselage on their website. They can be seen at: http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RV10SEATBACK We are now trying to make a decision whether to make an actual production run, or to abandon the project... Take a look and let Mike at Cleveland know if you are interested. He marked down the price a bit in hopes that this will get the ball rolling. I think the finished product is going to be great. Take a look.. let me know what you think. There was some concern about weight, but with the -10 being so nose heavy, a bit of weight this far back isn't necessarily a bad thing. All comments are welcome.... good or bad. pete james #40100, 90% done, 90% to go. RVPilot at MCHSI dot COM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ddddsp1(at)juno.com" <ddddsp1(at)juno.com>
Date: Aug 10, 2007
Subject: Troubleshooting a MAG drop.
John, I have a question on the copper washers for the plugs...............an o le A&P told me you can clean them, heat them up, and reuse them? Any truth to that? I know it is best to replace them as they cost very litt le. .......for airplane parts! DEAN ________________________________________________________________________ Get Juno DSL - the easier, safer broadband! 32 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vernon Smith <planesmith(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RTV As a sealant
Date: Aug 10, 2007
Hi Les, The plans say Pro-Seal , however the correct material is Firewall Sealant V an's part number MC-CS-1900. Firewall sealant is good to 2000 degrees fuel tank sealant is not. Tip for working with Firewall sealant it doesn't have the same consistence as fuel tank sealant. more like a juice blub of foam (weird stuff.) Anyway put it into a mono-inject or syringe without a needle and "inject it " where you need it. I can't say much about using RTV other than what a Tech counselor told me "your building a $100,000+ dollar plane $20 bucks for the right material is n't much in the grand scheme of things." Have fun, Vern Smith (#324 rudder pedals)> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 21:20:01 -0600> Fro m: kearney(at)shaw.ca> Subject: RV10-List: RTV As a sealant> To: rv10-list@mat >> > Hi > > As I work through the firewall, I noticed that the plans call f or Pro-Seal> to seal the firewall recess as well as around the air vents.> > Is there any issue in using RTV 732 as a sealant in this type of> applica tion? Aside from fuel tanks, when would use of pro-seal be essential> versu s something like RTV? > > Inquiring minds need to know...> > Les Kearney> # ================> > > _________________________________________________________________ Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Troubleshooting a MAG drop.
Date: Aug 10, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
One of my oldest IA buddies would always collect them and then anneal them (In mass) so they became more supple and malleable. I was taught to discard and use new. They are not unreasonably expensive when purchased in quantities of 100. The Champion sparkplug seminar confirmed the annealing process but countered that each time they are compressed they not only harden (reason for annealing), but they flatten out - never to retain the original "build height". With higher performance engines (you be the judge) the reuse of pre-used copper crush rings were allowing the plug to extend into the combustion cylinder and hinder the event. Results ranges from Detonation to cracked heads radiating from the sparkplug hole. On lower compression engines I have seen widespread use of the annealing process and yes, I do collect the discarded ones. Another important technique is to use the correct tools to adjust the gap. Use the wrong tool and you will crack the insulator. Just repeating what they showed at the Champion OSH seminar. I will always use "New" with my paying customers and as an EAA Tech, I can only share information for mass distribution that is not my typical wild A%% speculation. Kelly, help me out here.... John Cox EAA #5242 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ddddsp1(at)juno.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 12:12 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Troubleshooting a MAG drop. John, I have a question on the copper washers for the plugs...............an ole A&P told me you can clean them, heat them up, and reuse them? Any truth to that? I know it is best to replace them as they cost very little. .......for airplane parts! DEAN ________________________________________________________________________ /2-2125045-32">Get Juno DSL - the easier, safer broadband! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RTV As a sealant
Date: Aug 10, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Pro-Seal is a brand name of DeSoto - PPG sealant. It comes in over 40 flavors. Several will and do withstand high temperature on our Air Carrier Fleet the Dash 8/200 turboprop, Q400 turboprop and CRJ-700 Turbines. MC-CS-1900 is used for just one specific purpose. RTV has its own applications. The use of a Mono-inject syringe is quite commonly used when the smaller quantity is less than justifying a Semco pneumatic gun. I have three sizes of guns and still resort to a syringe for really small jobs. Use of the correct material is always better than speculation. But then each builder has the right and responsibility as the final Manufacturer to pick appropriate products or do whatever moves them. VANS just designed the thing and made a bunch of cool products to throw at it. Silicone based compounds are a real bitch when a paintable surface is desired. ProSeal is great with primer, paints or au naturale. Knowing your choices and picking wisely is what makes this pastime so much fun. John C. ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Smith Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 1:49 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RTV As a sealant Hi Les, The plans say Pro-Seal , however the correct material is Firewall Sealant Van's part number MC-CS-1900. Firewall sealant is good to 2000 degrees fuel tank sealant is not. Tip for working with Firewall sealant it doesn't have the same consistence as fuel tank sealant. more like a juice blub of foam (weird stuff.) Anyway put it into a mono-inject or syringe without a needle and "inject it" where you need it. I can't say much about using RTV other than what a Tech counselor told me "your building a $100,000+ dollar plane $20 bucks for the right material isn't much in the grand scheme of things." Have fun, Vern Smith (#324 rudder pedals) > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 21:20:01 -0600 > From: kearney(at)shaw.ca > Subject: RV10-List: RTV As a sealant > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > > > Hi > > As I work through the firewall, I noticed that the plans call for Pro-Seal > to seal the firewall recess as well as around the air vents. > > Is there any issue in using RTV 732 as a sealant in this type of > application? Aside from fuel tanks, when would use of pro-seal be essential > versus something like RTV? > > Inquiring minds need to know... > > Les Kearney > > > ________________________________ Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too! Play It! <http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Troubleshooting a MAG drop.
Date: Aug 10, 2007
Maybe I'm wrong, but I have never replaced mine..... in my Cherokee for 5 years and in my RV-4 for 5 years..... Just clean them off and re-torque the plugs. Never seen an exhaust leak around them.... Your mileage may vary, maybe I've just been lucky... -Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ddddsp1(at)juno.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 3:12 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Troubleshooting a MAG drop. John, I have a question on the copper washers for the plugs...............an ole A&P told me you can clean them, heat them up, and reuse them? Any truth to that? I know it is best to replace them as they cost very little. .......for airplane parts! DEAN ________________________________________________________________________ /2-2125045-32">Get Juno DSL - the easier, safer broadband! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2007
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Troubleshooting a MAG drop.
Wellllll, for a long time annealing was a time honored chance to play with your torch, make things glow cherry red and warm things up a bit in a cold hangar. However, today, copper scrap is worth so much you maybe get more fo r selling them than reusing. I personally doubt there is any significant flattening of the washers unles s you use the upper limit of the torque spec and like using your breaker bar with cheater to see whether you can get the helicoil out with the plugs or not. Personally, I don't care what TCM and Lyc say...I'm not going over 25 ft.lbs on a plug, period. It is plenty, still takes a lot of force to remov e the plug, etc. What I do see is the washers dishing a bit...so put the concave side toward the cylinder to reverse that. Nary a problem doing it that way for 32 years . On the other hand, if you have one of those hot rod 10:1 piston combos, better use new ones and honk on that torque wrench. On 8/10/07, John W. Cox wrote: > > One of my oldest IA buddies would always collect them and then anneal > them (In mass) so they became more supple and malleable. I was taught to > discard and use new. They are not unreasonably expensive when purchased in > quantities of 100. > > > The Champion sparkplug seminar confirmed the annealing process but > countered that each time they are compressed they not only harden (reason > for annealing), but they flatten out ' never to retain the original "bu ild > height". With higher performance engines (you be the judge) the reuse of > pre-used copper crush rings were allowing the plug to extend into the > combustion cylinder and hinder the event. Results ranges from Detonation to > cracked heads radiating from the sparkplug hole. > > > On lower compression engines I have seen widespread use of the annealing > process and yes, I do collect the discarded ones. > > > Another important technique is to use the correct tools to adjust the > gap. Use the wrong tool and you will crack the insulator. > > > Just repeating what they showed at the Champion OSH seminar. > > > I will always use "New" with my paying customers and as an EAA Tech, I ca n > only share information for mass distribution that is not my typical wild A%% > speculation. Kelly, help me out here=85. > > > John Cox > > EAA #5242 > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *ddddsp1(at)juno.com > *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2007 12:12 PM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Troubleshooting a MAG drop. > > > John, > > I have a question on the copper washers for the plugs...............an ol e > A&P told me you can clean them, heat them up, and reuse them? Any trut h > to that? I know it is best to replace them as they cost very little. > .......for airplane parts! > > DEAN > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > /2-2125045-32">Get Juno DSL - the easier, safer broadband! > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > * * > > * > =========== ronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List =========== =========== > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2007
From: Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: RTV As a sealant
John / Vernon Thanks for the advice. I do want to se the right material and thought perhaps RTV would be an acceptable substitute. My A&P (AME in Canada) has used it in my engine compartment so I thought it might be an easier material to use. It is curious that the plans specify proseal while there is a vans firewall sealer available for just this purpose. Thanks again Les _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox Sent: August-10-07 3:28 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RTV As a sealant Pro-Seal is a brand name of DeSoto - PPG sealant. It comes in over 40 flavors. Several will and do withstand high temperature on our Air Carrier Fleet the Dash 8/200 turboprop, Q400 turboprop and CRJ-700 Turbines. MC-CS-1900 is used for just one specific purpose. RTV has its own applications. The use of a Mono-inject syringe is quite commonly used when the smaller quantity is less than justifying a Semco pneumatic gun. I have three sizes of guns and still resort to a syringe for really small jobs. Use of the correct material is always better than speculation. But then each builder has the right and responsibility as the final Manufacturer to pick appropriate products or do whatever moves them. VANS just designed the thing and made a bunch of cool products to throw at it. Silicone based compounds are a real bitch when a paintable surface is desired. ProSeal is great with primer, paints or au naturale. Knowing your choices and picking wisely is what makes this pastime so much fun. John C. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Smith Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 1:49 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RTV As a sealant Hi Les, The plans say Pro-Seal , however the correct material is Firewall Sealant Van's part number MC-CS-1900. Firewall sealant is good to 2000 degrees fuel tank sealant is not. Tip for working with Firewall sealant it doesn't have the same consistence as fuel tank sealant. more like a juice blub of foam (weird stuff.) Anyway put it into a mono-inject or syringe without a needle and "inject it" where you need it. I can't say much about using RTV other than what a Tech counselor told me "your building a $100,000+ dollar plane $20 bucks for the right material isn't much in the grand scheme of things." Have fun, Vern Smith (#324 rudder pedals) > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 21:20:01 -0600 > From: kearney(at)shaw.ca > Subject: RV10-List: RTV As a sealant > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > > > Hi > > As I work through the firewall, I noticed that the plans call for Pro-Seal > to seal the firewall recess as well as around the air vents. > > Is there any issue in using RTV 732 as a sealant in this type of > application? Aside from fuel tanks, when would use of pro-seal be essential > versus something like RTV? > > Inquiring minds need to know... > > Les Kearney > > > _____ Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too! Play <http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink> It! <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2007
From: Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Cool Tools
Hi While at KOSH I was in the market for a few tools. I did see the Cleaveland Tools tungsten bucking bar: See http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BBT41 This gem weighs 1.7 lbs and is very small. I have spent a few hours riveting with it and found that it is much more stable than steel bars. I guess this is because it easier to get more mass behind the rivet. It size lets it get into some very tight spots. At a $120, it is worth every penny. Another thing I picked up was the quick change chuck along with the #30, # 40 and Jacobs Chuck adapter. See http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=QC65 for info. This is even better than having two drills has you can change drill bits faster than you change air lines. Cheers Les Kearney RV10 #40643 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cool Tools
Date: Aug 11, 2007
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
Tungsten in raw dimension is going for $3.50 to $4.50 per ounce - on Ebay. The Yard Store, in their latest catalog has an entire page devoted to milled "finish dimension" tungsten bucking bars at a substantial cost increase per ounce. It pays to have a friend with a mill. John Cox #600 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 12:04 AM Subject: RV10-List: Cool Tools Hi While at KOSH I was in the market for a few tools. I did see the Cleaveland Tools tungsten bucking bar: See http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BBT41 This gem weighs 1.7 lbs and is very small. I have spent a few hours riveting with it and found that it is much more stable than steel bars. I guess this is because it easier to get more mass behind the rivet. It size lets it get into some very tight spots. At a $120, it is worth every penny. Another thing I picked up was the quick change chuck along with the #30, # 40 and Jacobs Chuck adapter. See http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=QC65 for info. This is even better than having two drills has you can change drill bits faster than you change air lines. Cheers Les Kearney RV10 #40643 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2007
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RTV As a sealant
HI Les, As John explained, the term ProSeal is generic like RTV in that there are many versions with totally different capabilities. So the instructions are correct. They call for ProSeal of the high temperature variety for the fire wall, if I understand correctly. Kelly On 8/10/07, Les Kearney wrote: > > John / Vernon > > > Thanks for the advice. I do want to se the right material and thought > perhaps RTV would be an acceptable substitute. My A&P (AME in Canada) has > used it in my engine compartment so I thought it might be an easier mater ial > to use. It is curious that the plans specify proseal while there is a van s > firewall sealer available for just this purpose. > > > Thanks again > > > Les > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John W. Cox > *Sent:* August-10-07 3:28 PM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RTV As a sealant > > > Pro-Seal is a brand name of DeSoto ' PPG sealant. It comes in over 40 > flavors. Several will and do withstand high temperature on our Air Carri er > Fleet the Dash 8/200 turboprop, Q400 turboprop and CRJ-700 Turbines. > MC-CS-1900 is used for just one specific purpose. RTV has its own > applications. > > > The use of a Mono-inject syringe is quite commonly used when the smaller > quantity is less than justifying a Semco pneumatic gun. I have three siz es > of guns and still resort to a syringe for really small jobs. > > > Use of the correct material is always better than speculation. But then > each builder has the right and responsibility as the final Manufacturer t o > pick appropriate products or do whatever moves them. VANS just designed the > thing and made a bunch of cool products to throw at it. Silicone based > compounds are a real bitch when a paintable surface is desired. ProSeal is > great with primer, paints or au naturale. > > > Knowing your choices and picking wisely is what makes this pastime so muc h > fun. > > > John C. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Vernon Smith > *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2007 1:49 PM > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RTV As a sealant > > > Hi Les, > > The plans say Pro-Seal , however the correct material is Firewall Sealant > Van's part number *MC-CS-1900.* > Firewall sealant is good to 2000 degrees fuel tank sealant is not. > Tip for working with Firewall sealant it doesn't have the same consistenc e > as fuel tank sealant. more like a juice blub of foam (weird stuff.) > Anyway put it into a mono-inject or syringe without a needle and "inject > it" where you need it. > > I can't say much about using RTV other than what a Tech counselor told me > "your building a $100,000+ dollar plane $20 bucks for the right material > isn't much in the grand scheme of things." > > Have fun, > > Vern Smith (#324 rudder pedals) > > > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 21:20:01 -0600 > > From: kearney(at)shaw.ca > > Subject: RV10-List: RTV As a sealant > > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > > > > > > Hi > > > > As I work through the firewall, I noticed that the plans call for > Pro-Seal > > to seal the firewall recess as well as around the air vents. > > > > Is there any issue in using RTV 732 as a sealant in this type of > > application? Aside from fuel tanks, when would use of pro-seal be > essential > > versus something like RTV? > > > > Inquiring minds need to know... > > > > Les Kearney* > > > > > > * > * > ------------------------------ > * > > *Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too! Play It!<http://clu b.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink> > * > > * * > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > * * > > * > =========== =========== =========== > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Schipper <mike(at)learningplanet.com>
Subject: Re: Cool Tools
Date: Aug 11, 2007
I have to agree with Les that those tungsten bucking bars are totally great. And at the stated price of $4.50 per ounce, the $120 being charged by Cleaveland for a 1.7 pound bucking bar is cheaper than milling one yourself. The best thing is that because of the small size, you can fit the tungsten bucking bar just about everywhere. I use mine almost exclusively. Mike Schipper RV-10 #576 - www.rvten.com RV-9A - N63MS - Flying On Aug 11, 2007, at 8:30 AM, John W. Cox wrote: > Tungsten in raw dimension is going for $3.50 to $4.50 per ounce ' > on Ebay. The Yard Store, in their latest catalog has an entire > page devoted to milled =93finish dimension=94 tungsten bucking bars at > a substantial cost increase per ounce. It pays to have a friend > with a mill. > > > John Cox > > #600 > > > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 12:04 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Cool Tools > > > Hi > > > While at KOSH I was in the market for a few tools. I did see the > Cleaveland Tools tungsten bucking bar: Seehttp:// > www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BBT41 > > > This gem weighs 1.7 lbs and is very small. I have spent a few hours > riveting with it and found that it is much more stable than steel > bars. I guess this is because it easier to get more mass behind the > rivet. It size lets it get into some very tight spots. At a $120, > it is worth every penny. > > > Another thing I picked up was the quick change chuck along with the > #30, # 40 and Jacobs Chuck adapter. Seehttp:// > www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=QC65 for info. This > is even better > > than having two drills has you can change drill bits faster than > you change air lines. > > > Cheers > > > Les Kearney > > RV10 #40643 > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > http://forums.matronics.com > List > ======================== > ======================== > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 11, 2007
Subject: Flush door latch
How many people have installed a flush door latch and how did they work? I have thought about using the Cross Aviation or some from a Glasair Sportsman? Thanks, Rob Hickman N402RH RV-10 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Flush door latch
Rob, I installed them, other than being a bit pricey and having to fab your own linkage ,there's really no issue, They are much improved in appearance. Here's a link to an album that has 20 + pics of the install. http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2045%20Cabin%20Doors%20and%20Transparancies/slides/DSC03614.html And here's the log page that contains links to the write ups of all of the steps that correspond to the plans section http://deemsrv10.com/cabinwindowslogindex.html I know that Rivethead (aka Davie Chazowrowski) is working on a new handle set to replace Van's. it's not flush, but the inside handle is very attractive by comparison. Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ RobHickman(at)aol.com wrote: > How many people have installed a flush door latch and how did they work? > > I have thought about using the Cross Aviation or some from a Glasair > Sportsman? > > Thanks, > > Rob Hickman > N402RH RV-10 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>. > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com>
Subject: Flush door latch
Date: Aug 11, 2007
Rob, Check out these too http://www.iflyrv10.com/iflyrv10/index.html. I bought a set a couple days ago. They are in transit so I don't have them yet. They are supposed to work with the stock Vans doorlatch assembly and pushrods. -Ben PDX #40579 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RobHickman(at)aol.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 9:44 AM Subject: RV10-List: Flush door latch How many people have installed a flush door latch and how did they work? I have thought about using the Cross Aviation or some from a Glasair Sportsman? Thanks, Rob Hickman N402RH RV-10 _____ <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: tungsten bucking bar
Date: Aug 11, 2007
Does anyone recommend purchasing a tungsten bucking bar? They are pricey little buggers. And what size do you recommend? Dave Leikam 40496 QB Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: neil <ncol(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: tungsten bucking bar
Date: Aug 12, 2007
Bought mine from Stein. Wouldn't do without it. But then we didn't have a pneumatic squeezer either. Neil. On 12 Aug 2007, at 15:08, Dave Leikam wrote: > Does anyone recommend purchasing a tungsten bucking bar?- They are > pricey little buggers.- And what size do you recommend? > - > Dave Leikam > 40496 > QB Wings > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2007
From: Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: tungsten bucking bar
Dave I purchased the Cleaveland bar at KOSH. I have just spent the day riveting the forward fuse bottom skins with it. Actually my friend Larry was on the bar and I was on the gun. Anyway, we were able to use it to do all but a few of the rivets. It has a small cross section so it can get into very tight spaces. I expect that it is a bit more usable than a bar that is shaped more like a bar of soap rather than the long thin bar from Cleaveland. It is worth noting that one end of the Cleaveland bar has a slight bevel which was very hand in tight spots around flanges etc. It has made an immense difference in my riveting especially when shooting AN470 rivets. Cheers Les Kearney RV # 40643 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam Sent: August-11-07 9:08 PM Subject: RV10-List: tungsten bucking bar Does anyone recommend purchasing a tungsten bucking bar? They are pricey little buggers. And what size do you recommend? Dave Leikam 40496 QB Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dogsbark(at)comcast.net
Subject: Nose gear
Date: Aug 12, 2007
I started putting on the landing gear tonight and noticed the nose gear has a curve in it. The curve creates a gap of about 3/16th of an inch left to right when I put a straight edge on it. Has anyone else seen this? Also, it appears the gear has a slight twist in the longitudinal axis. I will let Van's know. Just curious of other's experience. Here's a link to a pic. http://websites.expercraft.com/seanb/images/149276665146bea29a87a21.jpg Thanks, Sean Blair #40225
I started putting on the landing gear tonight and noticed the nose gear has a curve in it. The curve creates a gap of about 3/16th of an inch left to right when I put a straight edge on it. Has anyone else seen this?

Also, it appears the gear has a slight twist in the longitudinal axis.

I will let Van's know. Just curious of other's experience.

Here's a link to a pic.

http://websites.expercraft.com/seanb/images/149276665146bea29a87a21.jpg

Thanks,

Sean Blair

#40225

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: tungsten bucking bar
Date: Aug 12, 2007
I purchased mine from Grov-Air when I took the builder's class there. On Troy's advice, it was the only bar I purchased, which the exception of the special one for the tail. It has worked great. The price isn't so bad if you consider not purchasing the other 3-4 bars that come in the standard kits. The bar is 5/8" x 1" x 4" with a 10 degree angle. From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 12:55 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: tungsten bucking bar Dave I purchased the Cleaveland bar at KOSH. I have just spent the day riveting the forward fuse bottom skins with it. Actually my friend Larry was on the bar and I was on the gun. Anyway, we were able to use it to do all but a few of the rivets. It has a small cross section so it can get into very tight spaces. I expect that it is a bit more usable than a bar that is shaped more like a bar of soap rather than the long thin bar from Cleaveland. It is worth noting that one end of the Cleaveland bar has a slight bevel which was very hand in tight spots around flanges etc. It has made an immense difference in my riveting especially when shooting AN470 rivets. Cheers Les Kearney RV # 40643 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam Sent: August-11-07 9:08 PM Subject: RV10-List: tungsten bucking bar Does anyone recommend purchasing a tungsten bucking bar? They are pricey little buggers. And what size do you recommend? Dave Leikam 40496 QB Wings __________ NOD32 2453 (20070812) Information __________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Subject: Vic Syracuse
Date: Aug 12, 2007
I just checked out the ntsb site... something I do from time to time to help me understand how people can get killed in airplanes when I came across this: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 070628X00844&key=1 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 2007
From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu>
Subject: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine
Listers with flying RV-10s, I'd like some feedback on how you wired your alternator, and how that's working out. - Van's wiring kit calls for #8 wire from the alternator to the 60 amp alternator breaker on the bus. - Both Aeroelectric Bob and the Blue Mountain guys advocate running the alternator output directly to the battery, and then wire from there to the bus (to allow the battery to absorb as much of the alternator ripple as possible). On my RV-6A I wired the alternator output to the bus (#6 wire), and I do get alternator whine on the audio. - If I follow the Aeroelectric guidance and use #8 wire I'll see a .71 volt drop between the alternator and the battery at 60 amps. With #6 wire I'd see a drop of .45 volts. Questions: 1. What approach did you take for connecting your alternator to the rest of the electrical system? 2. Do you hear any alternator whine when you are running a heavy electrical load? Thanks, Tim Lewis -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 2007
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine
Hmmm, Relatively standard practice in production aircraft is to run large wire from master relay at battery up left side to starter relay on firewall, and connect from there to buss. Alternator connects to voltage regulator to buss. So battery is connected via master relay to the buss and through the buss to the alternator. Tim Lewis wrote: > > Listers with flying RV-10s, > > I'd like some feedback on how you wired your alternator, and how > that's working out. > > - Van's wiring kit calls for #8 wire from the alternator to the 60 amp > alternator breaker on the bus. > - Both Aeroelectric Bob and the Blue Mountain guys advocate running > the alternator output directly to the battery, and then wire from > there to the bus (to allow the battery to absorb as much of the > alternator ripple as possible). On my RV-6A I wired the alternator > output to the bus (#6 wire), and I do get alternator whine on the audio. > - If I follow the Aeroelectric guidance and use #8 wire I'll see a .71 > volt drop between the alternator and the battery at 60 amps. With #6 > wire I'd see a drop of .45 volts. > > Questions: 1. What approach did you take for connecting your > alternator to the rest of the electrical system? > 2. Do you hear any alternator whine when you are running a heavy > electrical load? > > Thanks, > > Tim Lewis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine
Date: Aug 12, 2007
Agree. I ran #2 from the primary battery and between the primary and secondary batteries. There are two master relays connected to grounding toggle circuit breakers on the panel. The hot side of the starter relay has a #8 wire running to the primary bus. The alternator #8 B+ runs to a bar connecting two 30A pull-able breakers on the primary bus. The field toggle breaker on the primary bus controls the output of the alternator. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 3:39 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine Hmmm, Relatively standard practice in production aircraft is to run large wire from master relay at battery up left side to starter relay on firewall, and connect from there to buss. Alternator connects to voltage regulator to buss. So battery is connected via master relay to the buss and through the buss to the alternator. Tim Lewis wrote: > > Listers with flying RV-10s, > > I'd like some feedback on how you wired your alternator, and how > that's working out. > > - Van's wiring kit calls for #8 wire from the alternator to the 60 amp > alternator breaker on the bus. > - Both Aeroelectric Bob and the Blue Mountain guys advocate running > the alternator output directly to the battery, and then wire from > there to the bus (to allow the battery to absorb as much of the > alternator ripple as possible). On my RV-6A I wired the alternator > output to the bus (#6 wire), and I do get alternator whine on the audio. > - If I follow the Aeroelectric guidance and use #8 wire I'll see a .71 > volt drop between the alternator and the battery at 60 amps. With #6 > wire I'd see a drop of .45 volts. > > Questions: 1. What approach did you take for connecting your > alternator to the rest of the electrical system? > 2. Do you hear any alternator whine when you are running a heavy > electrical load? > > Thanks, > > Tim Lewis ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aileron pushrod rubbing against aileron mounting bracket
o
From: "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Date: Aug 12, 2007
I mounted my bellcrank to aileron pushrod this weekend and find the same issue. The pushrod is just barely rubbing the bracket at full deflection. Any more thoughts on this issue? -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128847#128847 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 2007
From: "Doug Gee" <Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com>
Subject: What will it be worth?
I am a pilot and own a 172. I have never built a plane before but after talking with the folks at Van's at Sun n Fun and going for a ride in the RV10, I am very interested in giving it a try. I spent several hours with the fine folks at the sheet metal shop at Sun n Fun and they provided a wealth of info and gave me basic instruction. I was already to order the tools and the tail kit when I reviewed the project with my airplane mechanic and he informed me that I would be lucky to get half of the investment back when it was completed. I have since checked the internet and I see some for sale at well above the materials cost. I have to admit that a used 182 could be bought for about the cost of the RV10 materials with similar performance and it is certified. Can anyone tell me what it is really going to be worth (assuming new everything)? I see what people are asking for them but what are they actually selling for? Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 2007
From: Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron pushrod rubbing against aileron mounting bracket
o Many times answered before....when both wings are on the aileron stop does not allow the aileron to deflect far enough to hit the bracket...really, trust us...this question always comes up when someone reaches the point in the wings where they test the aileron actuation for the first time....don't feel bad, your not the first..I think I was, and you won't be the last. Rick S. Remote transponder wiring at the kitchen table while the A/C is keeping me cool. Finishing ----- Original Message ----- From: dmaib(at)mac.com Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:07:59 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RV10-List: Re: Aileron pushrod rubbing against aileron mounting bracket o I mounted my bellcrank to aileron pushrod this weekend and find the same issue. The pushrod is just barely rubbing the bracket at full deflection. Any more thoughts on this issue? -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128847#128847 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: What will it be worth?
Doug, 1. I'm not sure what basis your mechanic used for his statement. And perhaps several years ago it may have been closer to the truth, but with Over 5000 RV planes flying, Van's planes are becoming more mainstream daily. an RV 6 'exceptional airplane' recently sold for $106K (posted on Matronics). For what ever reason people are reluctant to post/disclose what price they paid for a plane for. But as further evidence against what your mechanic decries. Is the INCREASING number of Ultra fast build/build for hire operations that are emerging. Obviously these 'businesses' are making a profit and the increasing number of them indicates that there are buyers who are willing to pay the prices. So when you see advertised prices for RV-10's in excess of $200K (depending upon equipped options) I think its reasonable to assume that they selling without deep discounts. 2. Are your plans to build it and then sell it? Or are you planning on building it for your own education and recreation with the possibility of selling it at some future date if/when the plane no longer fits you mission? If it's the later, I would further argue that all of the trendlines and inflation argue for a protection of your investment. 3. Depending upon how long you expect to own/operate the aircraft. If you build it and receive the repairman's certificate. You will avoid expensive future encounters with your 'mechanic'. Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ Doug Gee wrote: > > I am a pilot and own a 172. I have never built a plane before but after talking with the folks at Van's at Sun n Fun and going for a ride in the RV10, I am very interested in giving it a try. I spent several hours with the fine folks at the sheet metal shop at Sun n Fun and they provided a wealth of info and gave me basic instruction. I was already to order the tools and the tail kit when I reviewed the project with my airplane mechanic and he informed me that I would be lucky to get half of the investment back when it was completed. I have since checked the internet and I see some for sale at well above the materials cost. I have to admit that a used 182 could be bought for about the cost of the RV10 materials with similar performance and it is certified. Can anyone tell me what it is really going to be worth (assuming new everything)? I see what people are asking for them but what are they actually selling for? > > Thanks > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com>
Subject: What will it be worth?
Date: Aug 12, 2007
Let's break it down... NEW Airplane that cruises 160-165kts, climbs at 1500-2000 ft/min, has a plethora of EFIS displays to choose from that you can maintain yourself for $130,000 to $180,000.... Yeah you gotta want to build it. - vs - Used (30+ years used) 182 that cruises at 125-130kts, has a vacuum pump and standard 6 pack, requires an A&P IA every time you touch it for 80,000 - 120,000+ I am assuming you weren't even considering a $400,000 new Cessna. I'm not knocking 182's at all but side by side comparison really shows how strong the 10 is. 182's are excellent aircraft. I had myself, 2 other adults, and a teenager in one the other day. We climbed to 10,000 and circled Mt. St. Helens. Excellent airplane, everyone was comfortable. Oh yeah we were in that cause the 10 isnt finished yet!! I don't think there is really a right or wrong answer to this as it depends entirely on the person. You have to want to build an airplane to put together a 10. If it were your full time job it would take more than a year to complete. Do you have that kind of time to spend? How long will it take you to carve out 2500+ hours to assemble this from your daily grind? Now about the money... If you can't sell it for what you have into it (not counting labor) then something is seriously wrong and most likely it's the manufacturer (you) that did the something wrong. The resources available to builders today have really changed the face of "experimental" airplanes. The EAA and having communities such as this one available nearly 24x7 for comment has been invaluable. I can't imagine doing this without the Randy DeBauw's, Tim Olson's, Deems Davis's, and yes even 1/2 of what John Cox says, just kidding John! Spend some time looking through Tim's website http://www.myrv10.com and you'll see what I mean. -Ben Westfall PDX #40579 - Fuse (damn Section #29) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gee Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:55 PM Subject: RV10-List: What will it be worth? <Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com> I am a pilot and own a 172. I have never built a plane before but after talking with the folks at Van's at Sun n Fun and going for a ride in the RV10, I am very interested in giving it a try. I spent several hours with the fine folks at the sheet metal shop at Sun n Fun and they provided a wealth of info and gave me basic instruction. I was already to order the tools and the tail kit when I reviewed the project with my airplane mechanic and he informed me that I would be lucky to get half of the investment back when it was completed. I have since checked the internet and I see some for sale at well above the materials cost. I have to admit that a used 182 could be bought for about the cost of the RV10 materials with similar performance and it is certified. Can anyone tell me what it is really going to be worth (assuming new everything)? I see what people are asking for them but what are they actually selling for? Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: What will it be worth?
Date: Aug 13, 2007
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
Dear Doug, I am sure you will get a lot of additional responses to the actual value of your project once complete vs. a certified 182 or the like so I will address your comment about "similar performance." Did you really fly in the RV-10? When I flew the -10 at SNF (I am 7 months from first flight and currently fly a 6A, Turbo Lance II, D-35 Bonanza) Vans demo plane had 3 - 200+ Lbs occupants and full tanks. We climbed out at 1500" per minute and were moving right along in level flight in no time. The demo pilot mentioned that the factory -10 regularly outperforms the factory RV-7 in both climb and cruse. That is impressive because my little 6A hustles right along (flew back from LA today at 180 kts). If my -10 matches my 6A's performance I will be VERY happy. About 2 months ago I was the safety pilot for a friend IFR recurrent training in his mint 182. It was just the two of us (unknown tanks) and my only thought during the entire 90 minutes was "is this all it has?" Wow that would make for some very long trips. The 182 seemed like a great way to build time because it was SLOW. I have to say it seemed like a great IFR platform because it was so stable but stable & slow. I think his fuel burn was in the neighborhood of 18 GPH. I hope to be closer to 13 GPH in my -10 (some people are flying LOP under 10 GPM). If those numbers hold I expect to get close to twice the MPG as his 182. That is a significant savings right there. If you do end up building a -10 you will also enjoy the benefit of the repairman's certificate. My annuals in the -6A can be under $500. Some builder/owners have annuals under $200.00. Double either of those numbers and you are still a miles away from your basic $5,000 annual or the SURPRISE $8,700 annual that once can expect on any 30 year old plane. With a -10 you will probably have a zero time motor, prop etc... That is real peace of mind (once the fly off is behind you) vs. the variety pack of items added and removed over the course of 30 years. I think if you just take into consideration the difference in cost of annuals over a 10 year period that is enough to sway one (financially) to an experimental. Moving on to the actual flying of the plane. Because you are the builder you can choose what you want in YOUR plane. My plane will have two DVD players integrated in the cockpit as one of my priorities is to get my family to think about something other than "are we there yet" and my daughter's favorite "is that noise normal?" Yes I have some anxious flyers in my family. Between the DVD's, audio & video hook ups that should keep them busy. To please me we will be putting in a triple glass panel, integrated dual 18 watt radios, triple battery system, & integrated O2, full leather and a beer dispenser. OK, I made that last part up but you get the idea. You don't get to fly an all glass certified plane unless you get a much newer version. Then the costs are not even close. Basically you can have whatever you want in your plane. I could go on & on as to the benefits to non-certified planes but I have been known to talk myself into a lot of different things. Good luck, Robin RV-4 Sold RV-6A 370 hours RV-10 Sooner or Later, probably later... -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gee Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:55 PM Subject: RV10-List: What will it be worth? <Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com> I am a pilot and own a 172. I have never built a plane before but after talking with the folks at Van's at Sun n Fun and going for a ride in the RV10, I am very interested in giving it a try. I spent several hours with the fine folks at the sheet metal shop at Sun n Fun and they provided a wealth of info and gave me basic instruction. I was already to order the tools and the tail kit when I reviewed the project with my airplane mechanic and he informed me that I would be lucky to get half of the investment back when it was completed. I have since checked the internet and I see some for sale at well above the materials cost. I have to admit that a used 182 could be bought for about the cost of the RV10 materials with similar performance and it is certified. Can anyone tell me what it is really going to be worth (assuming new everything)? I see what people are asking for them but what are they actually selling for? Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)AOL.COM
Date: Aug 13, 2007
Subject: Re: What will it be worth?
In a message dated 8/12/2007 11:01:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Doug.Gee@firestone-textiles.com writes: I have to admit that a used 182 could be bought for about the cost of the RV10 materials with similar performance and it is certified. Doug, I don't think you can compare an old C 182 with the RV 10 as for performance and handling...Others will probably be able to give you better information, but the RV 10 is similar in speed and handling to the newer generation of aircraft as compared to a design from Cessna's 1950's technology. The 182 is a nice plane and has a good useful load...it's a good airplane to fly. If you want to step up in speed you'd need the retract 182...called an R182 a little faster but still slower than an RV 10 and it still handles like a Cessna with all the rattly doors/windows. As a builder of an RV, I think your A&P may be missing why you are building and why builders build. It's not for re-sale for most builders. It's the accomplishment and satisfaction of flying something you've created. If you want to be in the business of building and selling aircraft then it's best to set up a business to do this. If you're building and then are going to sell it quickly, it's not a very rewarding enterprise for most to do this. An experimental will generally not have the same re-sale value as a "certified" plane, when you compare all that you've invested vs. what the "certified" company has completed. But as you look at this one needs to keep in mind that you'll need to compare likes to likes. A new C 182 will set you back about $400k, a newly built RV 10 will be $135k+ depending upon how much avionics one invests. The new Cessna 182T with G 1000 system as still the same old design as the original planes, they have better seats and doors and because of all the new heavy equipment they are only a 3 person plane, useful load is down significantly. I have several hundred hours flying the 182T and for the money that they cost they a poor investment. The modern performance is not there...it still has all the elements that slows the plane down. So to compare the "10" with a 182 is mixing apples with oranges. You've really got to compare the RV 10 to a Cirrus type aircraft to get performance and technology. Comparing the "10" to a 20+ years old plane is not a fair comparison. There are some nice ol' 182's out there and they will get you from A to B safely, but you'll be going slow, using more fuel per hour and the doors and windows will leak no matter what you do...your feet will roast and your head will be cold in the winter along with a numb arm that is next to the window and it will be an OK plane to fly...no style, yesterday news on design. If you want to fly something faster, more efficient then nothing from Cessna will do unless you go into their new sport plane. There are only a few choices of "certified" aircraft--Columbia, Cirrus, Mooney Ovation II, etc., and a few experimental. The "certified's" in the RV 10 class will cost well north of $350k but probably close to $500k and the RV 10 will cost a lot less. The RV 10 will be as basic or as sophisticated as you want. If you want to fly a Cessna then stay with the Cessna and step up from the 172 to the 182; you'll go a little faster, and it can happen quickly for you to do so. If you want the experience of a life time then build an experimental. If you're concerned about you're payback, building is probably not for you, nor is buying a new airplane, either....MHO. Patrick http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 13, 2007
Subject: Re: What will it be worth?
In a message dated 8/12/2007 11:51:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ricksked(at)embarqmail.com writes: W.C Fields mentioned something about someone born every minute. P.T. Barnum... http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 2007
From: Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: What will it be worth?
oops....Wrong quote book!! ----- Original Message ----- From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:20:49 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: Re: RV10-List: What will it be worth? In a message dated 8/12/2007 11:51:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ricksked(at)embarqmail.com writes: W.C Fields mentioned something about someone born every minute. P.T. Barnum... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Max Hegler" <MaxHegler(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: What will it be worth?
Date: Aug 13, 2007
There's a P.T. Barnum born every minute? ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 7:20 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: What will it be worth? In a message dated 8/12/2007 11:51:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ricksked(at)embarqmail.com writes: W.C Fields mentioned something about someone born every minute. P.T. Barnum... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flush door latch
From: "nick(at)nleonard.com" <nick(at)nleonard.com>
Date: Aug 13, 2007
Rob, I ended up using the ACS Experimental Door Handles which uses the same billet style as the others. Its made by Hendricks Manufacturing; http://www.hendricksmfg.com/latchprod.html and I now see that you can buy them direct for less than what I paid at ACS. Go figure. The outside flush mount came out very nicely, although the full-size template that came with the unit isnt really full-size. It was actually easier to just do a layout, centering the pivot point with the handle opening recess of the door. That part of the installation was easy and came out very nicely. The outside flush handles will look great. However, it was the looks of the inside handles that I couldnt stand and prompted the change. Hendricks cautions you not to take the units apart. There is a small spring and ball bearing that is used for the detent that needs to be captured. Im not sure I could have fit the unit without taking it apart but putting it back together while on the plane will be more challenging than if it was out on the bench. However, it is certainly doable. I used the inside handles (I needed to reverse them side for side) and created a fiberglass cover that will protect the handle from being accidentally opened while it also covers the fiberglass that I had to cut out of the door (most of the handle recess area). You lose the button locking functionality with these handles which isnt an issue on the outside but needs a solution on the inside so that someone doesnt accidentally yank it open while in flight. My fiberglass covers will protect the handles sufficiently so that there are no exposed edges of the handles to be caught. Because the pivoting offset of the new handles is different than Vans, I couldnt see how to use the original geared arrangement. I used the same pushrod tubing but created a pivot point near the outside of the door. I also put a second nylon block just inside of the original locations to support greater alignment surface of the push pins. I also used the Door Guide and Pin Set from Rivethead, http://www.rivethead-aero.com/rv10_005.htm which I think will work out very well. There are no instructions for how to blind mount the guides (drilled and screwed from the back) which I havent decided on a solution yet. They are also thicker then the door opening, so I will either need to mill them down or relieve them into the fiberglass door jam. It took a lot of extra time to figure out how to adapt the pushrods which Steve has done with flat stock in his door handle solution. http://www.iflyrv10.com/iflyrv10/index.html I dont see what he proposes for inside door handles but I like the rest of his approach and it would probably be the approach I would select if I were to so it over again. Using the tubular stock for push rods required that I buy eight rod end bearings (at $9 apiece) to thread into the tubes for pivot points. A side comment; the Hendricks door locks are way too big (sticking out). Im going to try to adapt the locks used on the baggage door which will add the advantage of them all being keyed the same. Otherwise, I love the look of the flush outside handles. I miss the button release feature for the inside handles and I love the Door Guide and Pin sets. It reminded me once again of how much extra time it takes to change away form anything that is not on the plans. Nick (40015, finish kit) C: 916-425-1064 Nick(at)NLeonard.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128967#128967 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine
Date: Aug 13, 2007
Tim, Here's my power system, it's a variation on the Aeroelectric Z14-FADEC. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Misc_PDF/ I have two Concord 28V 17 amp-hr batteries in the rear. (single pilot W&B needs some rear ballast anyway). Each has its own contactor, also in the rear near the battery. They are connected by a cross-feed contactor. I ran a single #2 welding cable in the tunnel from the rear cross-feed contactor & "A" battery contactor output to a firewall bulkhead. At the bulkhead is an isolated 3/8" stud passing thru the firewall on the left side. The feed from the cross-over/"A" battery and the main "A" bus behind the panel attach to the stud on the inside. The starter contactor and the main "A" alternator (B&C L-60) connect on the firewall side of the stud. A second "B" alternator (B&C SD20) connects directly to the output side of the "B" battery contactor with a mid-wire junction to a "B" main bus behind the panel. Each alternator is controlled by a B&C controller (LS-1A) Each battery contactor and alternator is switched by a three position switch "OFF/Batt-A/Batt-A & Alt-A" and "OFF/Batt-B/Batt-B & Alt-B" The contactor has its own three position switch and can be powered by either battery. "OFF/X-FEED/START" I also ran a single #2 welding cable from the ground on both batteries to a stud on the right side of the firewall. All the FWF ground and the panel ground bus connect to this single stud. A second ground using a #10 wire is connected directly from the batteries to the ground bus. This is to avoid the single point failure of the main #2 ground lead connections. In addition to the #2 main power feed I have two #10 wires direct from each battery to a switch then to a "A" & "B" engine bus behind the panel. There is a 40 amp current limiter (B&C C903-1 w/ C905-40) on each wire at the batteries. These power the Electronic Engine A & B side and a few essential items and act as the typical Right mag/Left mag switches. The power is distributed thru 4 fuse blocks (B&C FH-6 & FH-12) with appropriately sized fuses. Five switches in a row control all the power and starting. Left to Right: "A" Main/Alt, "A" Engine, X-Feed/Start, "B" Engine, "B" Main/Alt Questions? :-) ERic- RV-10, 40014 N104EP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Flush door latch
Date: Aug 13, 2007
It is hard to tell from pix but do these flush handles have a safety lock on the inside to prevent inadvertent opening in flight? Gary 40274 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nick(at)nleonard.com Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:09 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Flush door latch Rob, I ended up using the ACS Experimental Door Handles which uses the same billet style as the others. Its made by Hendricks Manufacturing; http://www.hendricksmfg.com/latchprod.html and I now see that you can buy them direct for less than what I paid at ACS. Go figure. The outside flush mount came out very nicely, although the full-size template that came with the unit isnt really full-size. It was actually easier to just do a layout, centering the pivot point with the handle opening recess of the door. That part of the installation was easy and came out very nicely. The outside flush handles will look great. However, it was the looks of the inside handles that I couldnt stand and prompted the change. Hendricks cautions you not to take the units apart. There is a small spring and ball bearing that is used for the detent that needs to be captured. Im not sure I could have fit the unit without taking it apart but putting it back together while on the plane will be more challenging than if it was out on the bench. However, it is certainly doable. I used the inside handles (I needed to reverse them side for side) and created a fiberglass cover that will protect the handle from being accidentally opened while it also covers the fiberglass that I had to cut out of the door (most of the handle recess area). You lose the button locking functionality with these handles which isnt an issue on the outside but needs a solution on the inside so that someone doesnt accidentally yank it open while in flight. My fiberglass covers will protect the handles sufficiently so that there are no exposed edges of the handles to be caught. Because the pivoting offset of the new handles is different than Vans, I couldnt see how to use the original geared arrangement. I used the same pushrod tubing but created a pivot point near the outside of the door. I also put a second nylon block just inside of the original locations to support greater alignment surface of the push pins. I also used the Door Guide and Pin Set from Rivethead, http://www.rivethead-aero.com/rv10_005.htm which I think will work out very well. There are no instructions for how to blind mount the guides (drilled and screwed from the back) which I havent decided on a solution yet. They are also thicker then the door opening, so I will either need to mill them down or relieve them into the fiberglass door jam. It took a lot of extra time to figure out how to adapt the pushrods which Steve has done with flat stock in his door handle solution. http://www.iflyrv10.com/iflyrv10/index.html I dont see what he proposes for inside door handles but I like the rest of his approach and it would probably be the approach I would select if I were to so it over again. Using the tubular stock for push rods required that I buy eight rod end bearings (at $9 apiece) to thread into the tubes for pivot points. A side comment; the Hendricks door locks are way too big (sticking out). Im going to try to adapt the locks used on the baggage door which will add the advantage of them all being keyed the same. Otherwise, I love the look of the flush outside handles. I miss the button release feature for the inside handles and I love the Door Guide and Pin sets. It reminded me once again of how much extra time it takes to change away form anything that is not on the plans. Nick (40015, finish kit) C: 916-425-1064 Nick(at)NLeonard.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128967#128967 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Nose gear
Date: Aug 13, 2007
Looks like the sub contractor's jig was mis aligned or they didn't use it. One of my control sticks had this problem...lousy quality control. With that front tire always cocked over to the left, you'll resemble a road grader. JOhn >From: dogsbark(at)comcast.net >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Nose gear >Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 06:14:33 +0000 > >I started putting on the landing gear tonight and noticed the nose gear has >a curve in it. The curve creates a gap of about 3/16th of an inch left to >right when I put a straight edge on it. Has anyone else seen this? > >Also, it appears the gear has a slight twist in the longitudinal axis. > >I will let Van's know. Just curious of other's experience. > >Here's a link to a pic. > >http://websites.expercraft.com/seanb/images/149276665146bea29a87a21.jpg > > >Thanks, > >Sean Blair >#40225 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Nose gear
Date: Aug 14, 2007
I had a stuffed gear leg and they replaced it all the way to here downunder. About $330 US in freight and they paid. No dramas. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 6:32 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Nose gear > > Looks like the sub contractor's jig was mis aligned or they didn't use it. > One of my control sticks had this problem...lousy quality control. > > With that front tire always cocked over to the left, you'll resemble a > road grader. > > JOhn > > >>From: dogsbark(at)comcast.net >>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: RV10-List: Nose gear >>Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 06:14:33 +0000 >> >>I started putting on the landing gear tonight and noticed the nose gear >>has a curve in it. The curve creates a gap of about 3/16th of an inch left >>to right when I put a straight edge on it. Has anyone else seen this? >> >>Also, it appears the gear has a slight twist in the longitudinal axis. >> >>I will let Van's know. Just curious of other's experience. >> >>Here's a link to a pic. >> >>http://websites.expercraft.com/seanb/images/149276665146bea29a87a21.jpg >> >> >>Thanks, >> >>Sean Blair >>#40225 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 2007
From: Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine
Eric, You win the "Let's confuse the crap outta everyone using words instead of a schematic" contest. So your running 24 VDC system? Almost went that way if only for electric AC. Rick S. 40185 finishing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 12:02:21 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RE: RV10-List: Alternator power wiring, alternator whine Tim, Here's my power system, it's a variation on the Aeroelectric Z14-FADEC. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Misc_PDF/ I have two Concord 28V 17 amp-hr batteries in the rear. (single pilot W&B needs some rear ballast anyway). Each has its own contactor, also in the rear near the battery. They are connected by a cross-feed contactor. I ran a single #2 welding cable in the tunnel from the rear cross-feed contactor & "A" battery contactor output to a firewall bulkhead. At the bulkhead is an isolated 3/8" stud passing thru the firewall on the left side. The feed from the cross-over/"A" battery and the main "A" bus behind the panel attach to the stud on the inside. The starter contactor and the main "A" alternator (B&C L-60) connect on the firewall side of the stud. A second "B" alternator (B&C SD20) connects directly to the output side of the "B" battery contactor with a mid-wire junction to a "B" main bus behind the panel. Each alternator is controlled by a B&C controller (LS-1A) Each battery contactor and alternator is switched by a three position switch "OFF/Batt-A/Batt-A & Alt-A" and "OFF/Batt-B/Batt-B & Alt-B" The contactor has its own three position switch and can be powered by either battery. "OFF/X-FEED/START" I also ran a single #2 welding cable from the ground on both batteries to a stud on the right side of the firewall. All the FWF ground and the panel ground bus connect to this single stud. A second ground using a #10 wire is connected directly from the batteries to the ground bus. This is to avoid the single point failure of the main #2 ground lead connections. In addition to the #2 main power feed I have two #10 wires direct from each battery to a switch then to a "A" & "B" engine bus behind the panel. There is a 40 amp current limiter (B&C C903-1 w/ C905-40) on each wire at the batteries. These power the Electronic Engine A & B side and a few essential items and act as the typical Right mag/Left mag switches. The power is distributed thru 4 fuse blocks (B&C FH-6 & FH-12) with appropriately sized fuses. Five switches in a row control all the power and starting. Left to Right: "A" Main/Alt, "A" Engine, X-Feed/Start, "B" Engine, "B" Main/Alt Questions? :-) ERic- RV-10, 40014 N104EP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 2007
From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu>
Subject: Re:Alternator power wiring, alternator whine
Eric, Thanks for taking the time to write up your system description. I'm going over the data in the link you provided right now. tim -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction Eric Parlow wrote: > > Tim, > > Here's my power system, it's a variation on the Aeroelectric Z14-FADEC. > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Misc_PDF/ > > I have two Concord 28V 17 amp-hr batteries in the rear. (single pilot > W&B needs some rear ballast anyway). > Each has its own contactor, also in the rear near the battery. > They are connected by a cross-feed contactor. > I ran a single #2 welding cable in the tunnel from the rear cross-feed > contactor & "A" battery contactor output to a firewall bulkhead. > At the bulkhead is an isolated 3/8" stud passing thru the firewall on > the left side. > The feed from the cross-over/"A" battery and the main "A" bus behind > the panel attach to the stud on the inside. > The starter contactor and the main "A" alternator (B&C L-60) connect > on the firewall side of the stud. > > A second "B" alternator (B&C SD20) connects directly to the output > side of the "B" battery contactor with a mid-wire junction to a "B" > main bus behind the panel. > > Each alternator is controlled by a B&C controller (LS-1A) > Each battery contactor and alternator is switched by a three position > switch > "OFF/Batt-A/Batt-A & Alt-A" and "OFF/Batt-B/Batt-B & Alt-B" > The contactor has its own three position switch and can be powered by > either battery. > "OFF/X-FEED/START" > > I also ran a single #2 welding cable from the ground on both batteries > to a stud on the right side of the firewall. > All the FWF ground and the panel ground bus connect to this single stud. > A second ground using a #10 wire is connected directly from the > batteries to the ground bus. > This is to avoid the single point failure of the main #2 ground lead > connections. > > In addition to the #2 main power feed I have two #10 wires direct from > each battery to a switch then to a "A" & "B" engine bus behind the panel. > There is a 40 amp current limiter (B&C C903-1 w/ C905-40) on each wire > at the batteries. > These power the Electronic Engine A & B side and a few essential items > and act as the typical Right mag/Left mag switches. > > The power is distributed thru 4 fuse blocks (B&C FH-6 & FH-12) with > appropriately sized fuses. > > Five switches in a row control all the power and starting. > Left to Right: "A" Main/Alt, "A" Engine, X-Feed/Start, "B" Engine, "B" > Main/Alt > > Questions? :-) > > ERic- > RV-10, 40014 > N104EP > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: FYI Ebay Heads Up XM weather receiver
I just purchased a used XM weather receiver @ less than 1/2 the price of a new one on Ebay. They had 2 units listed and with 15 minutes left in the auction. it doesn't appear that the other one has met it's reserve price and is going to sell. If anyone is interested I can supply the contact information for the vendor so you may be able to deal direct. For me this was a real opportunity as the alternative was a new unit @ close to $4k. Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Heads-Up-Technologies-XM-Weather-Receiver_W0QQitemZ170137783500QQihZ007QQcategoryZ26436QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Byron Gillespie" <bgill1(at)charter.net>
Subject: Control Cable Questions
Date: Aug 13, 2007
Question for you folks.. I received my panel two weeks ago (super job Stein!) and have run into a bit of a snag. I am using a canted center panel that sucks up a little more cable length than the standard panel. By my calculations I need about 2 to 2.5 inches for each cable. The options that I am looking at are: 1. Buy new cables from Aircraft Spruce - that would leave me with up to 10 inches of extra cable to "route away" plus the cost of the cables. * Secondary question is the FFW cables appear to be A-760 cables whereas others from Wicks and ACS are A-750 - Any idea what the difference is?? 2. Purchase "custom" cable lengths at the price of ~ $ 130 each - still would be the A-750 cables 3. Investigate the Van's Quadrant - like Tim has. Still may have the same length issue but could order custom lengths from Vans. Are the cables the same length for the quadrant? I have sent an e-mail to Vans with the same questions but thought it may be good idea to question the experts who have gone before. :-) Thanks for any info! Byron N253RV assigned - still finishing..connecting the panel to the "stuff". ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Belue" <kdbelue(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Flush door latch
Date: Aug 13, 2007
Nick, I installed the ACS flush handles like you did. It was a lot of work, but I like the way it turned out. As you've said, there is no internal latch to hold the handle in place - I made a thin arm rest out of wood and foam that the handle fits into to prevent the handle from accidentally being opened in flight. The handle closes tightly so I think it will work alright. I also used the Rivethead guides. I had installed the Van's guides before I'd heard of the Rivethead parts, so if you do that first the guides will go right in place of Van's guides. The Rivethead parts work soooo much better than Van's guides. They guide the door into the same exact position every time and the pins guide in perfectly. I think they should be a part of the kit because they work so well. I also disassembled the latch mechanism many times and find it fairly easy to reassemble. Just be careful of that spring-loaded ball! Kevin Belue RV-6A 700+ hrs. RV10 - finishing ----- Original Message ----- From: <nick(at)nleonard.com> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:09 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Flush door latch > > Rob, > > I ended up using the ACS Experimental Door Handles which uses the same > billet style as the others. It?Ts made by Hendricks Manufacturing; > http://www.hendricksmfg.com/latchprod.html > and I now see that you can buy them direct for less than what I paid at > ACS. Go figure. > > The outside flush mount came out very nicely, although the full-size > template that came with the unit isn?Tt really full-size. It was > actually easier to just do a layout, centering the pivot point with the > handle opening recess of the door. That part of the installation was easy > and came out very nicely. The outside flush handles will look great. > However, it was the looks of the inside handles that I couldn?Tt stand > and prompted the change. > > Hendricks cautions you not to take the units apart. There is a small > spring and ball bearing that is used for the detent that needs to be > captured. I?Tm not sure I could have fit the unit without taking it > apart but putting it back together while on the plane will be more > challenging than if it was out on the bench. However, it is certainly > doable. > > I used the inside handles (I needed to reverse them side for side) and > created a fiberglass cover that will protect the handle from being > accidentally opened while it also covers the fiberglass that I had to cut > out of the door (most of the handle recess area). You lose the button > locking functionality with these handles which isn?Tt an issue on the > outside but needs a solution on the inside so that someone doesn?Tt > accidentally yank it open while in flight. My fiberglass covers will > protect the handles sufficiently so that there are no exposed edges of the > handles to be caught. > > Because the pivoting offset of the new handles is different than Van?Ts, > I couldn?Tt see how to use the original geared arrangement. I used the > same pushrod tubing but created a pivot point near the outside of the > door. I also put a second nylon block just inside of the original > locations to support greater alignment surface of the push pins. > > I also used the Door Guide and Pin Set from Rivethead, > http://www.rivethead-aero.com/rv10_005.htm > which I think will work out very well. There are no instructions for how > to blind mount the guides (drilled and screwed from the back) which I > haven?Tt decided on a solution yet. They are also thicker then the door > opening, so I will either need to mill them down or relieve them into the > fiberglass door jam. > > It took a lot of extra time to figure out how to adapt the pushrods which > Steve has done with flat stock in his door handle solution. > http://www.iflyrv10.com/iflyrv10/index.html > I don?Tt see what he proposes for inside door handles but I like the rest > of his approach and it would probably be the approach I would select if I > were to so it over again. Using the tubular stock for push rods required > that I buy eight rod end bearings (at $9 apiece) to thread into the tubes > for pivot points. > A side comment; the Hendricks door locks are way too big (sticking out). > I?Tm going to try to adapt the locks used on the baggage door which will > add the advantage of them all being keyed the same. > > Otherwise, I love the look of the flush outside handles. I miss the > button release feature for the inside handles and I love the Door Guide > and Pin sets. It reminded me once again of how much extra time it takes > to change away form anything that is not on the plans. > > Nick (40015, finish kit) > C: 916-425-1064 Nick(at)NLeonard.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128967#128967 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dogsbark(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Nose gear
Date: Aug 14, 2007
Chris, Good news to hear how Van's takes care of business. Thanks for the encouragement. Sean -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> > > I had a stuffed gear leg and they replaced it all the way to here downunder. > About $330 US in freight and they paid. > No dramas. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Gonzalez" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 6:32 AM > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Nose gear > > > > > > Looks like the sub contractor's jig was mis aligned or they didn't use it. > > One of my control sticks had this problem...lousy quality control. > > > > With that front tire always cocked over to the left, you'll resemble a > > road grader. > > > > JOhn > > > > > >>From: dogsbark(at)comcast.net > >>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > >>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > >>Subject: RV10-List: Nose gear > >>Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 06:14:33 +0000 > >> > >>I started putting on the landing gear tonight and noticed the nose gear > >>has a curve in it. The curve creates a gap of about 3/16th of an inch left > >>to right when I put a straight edge on it. Has anyone else seen this? > >> > >>Also, it appears the gear has a slight twist in the longitudinal axis. > >> > >>I will let Van's know. Just curious of other's experience. > >> > >>Here's a link to a pic. > >> > >>http://websites.expercraft.com/seanb/images/149276665146bea29a87a21.jpg > >> > >> > >>Thanks, > >> > >>Sean Blair > >>#40225 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Chris,

Good news to hear how Van's takes care of business. Thanks for the encouragement.

Sean

> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris and Susie McGough"
>
> I had a stuffed gear leg and they replaced it all the way to here downunder.
> About $330 US in freight and they paid.
> No dramas.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Gonzalez" <INDIGOONLATIGO(at)MSN.COM> > To:
> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 6:32 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Nose gear
>
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez"
> >
> > Looks like the sub contractor's jig was mis aligned or they didn't use it.
> > One of my control sticks had this problem...lousy quality control.
> > ;
> > With that front tire always cocked over to the left, you'll resemble a
> > road grader.
> >
> > JOhn
> >
> > > >>From: dogsbark(at)comcast.net > >>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> >>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> >>Subject: RV10-List: Nose gear
> >>Date: Sun, 12 Aug landing gear tonight and noticed the nose gear
> >>has a curve in it. The curve creates a gap of about 3/16th of an inch left
> >>to right when I put a straight edge on it. Has anyone else seen this?
> >>
> >>Also, it appears the gear has a slight twist in the longitudinal axis.
> >>
> >>I will let Van's know. Just curious of other's experience.
> >>
> >>Here's a link to a pic.
> >>
> >> ;http: ===== ==================================================
>
>
>

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Flush door latch
Date: Aug 14, 2007
I've got to admit, I got my inspiration from the handles offered by Hendricks mfg. and another from overseas. I was to be a customer but I was disappointed on the size of the handle and lack of adaptability to our specific application. So I drew up a handle meeting several criteria. first, I wanted the profile to fit within the door, (1" thick) second, I didn't want to modify the vans interior handle and latch/lock assembly. Everything inside the door is as vans intended. Especially the inside lock. third, I wanted to make it specifically for the rv10, not a generic "make it work" kind of part... fourth, I wanted the exterior handle placed in the rear of the door where I climb up to ease access. Additional considerations were also (kiss), ambidextrous parts (all but one!), the ability to add key cylinders, and the ability to add the handle to a flying aircraft as easily as one during construction. Oh by the way, we build airplanes by gosh, so I expect everyone to take the handles apart, so I include an extra spring and bearing....:) Steve dinieri Iflyrv10.com 716.579.5790 (sorry if this sounded like a commercial but I had a few emails already asking what makes mine different) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nick(at)nleonard.com Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 2:09 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Flush door latch Rob, I ended up using the ACS Experimental Door Handles which uses the same billet style as the others. Its made by Hendricks Manufacturing; http://www.hendricksmfg.com/latchprod.html and I now see that you can buy them direct for less than what I paid at ACS. Go figure. The outside flush mount came out very nicely, although the full-size template that came with the unit isnt really full-size. It was actually easier to just do a layout, centering the pivot point with the handle opening recess of the door. That part of the installation was easy and came out very nicely. The outside flush handles will look great. However, it was the looks of the inside handles that I couldnt stand and prompted the change. Hendricks cautions you not to take the units apart. There is a small spring and ball bearing that is used for the detent that needs to be captured. Im not sure I could have fit the unit without taking it apart but putting it back together while on the plane will be more challenging than if it was out on the bench. However, it is certainly doable. I used the inside handles (I needed to reverse them side for side) and created a fiberglass cover that will protect the handle from being accidentally opened while it also covers the fiberglass that I had to cut out of the door (most of the handle recess area). You lose the button locking functionality with these handles which isnt an issue on the outside but needs a solution on the inside so that someone doesnt accidentally yank it open while in flight. My fiberglass covers will protect the handles sufficiently so that there are no exposed edges of the handles to be caught. Because the pivoting offset of the new handles is different than Vans, I couldnt see how to use the original geared arrangement. I used the same pushrod tubing but created a pivot point near the outside of the door. I also put a second nylon block just inside of the original locations to support greater alignment surface of the push pins. I also used the Door Guide and Pin Set from Rivethead, http://www.rivethead-aero.com/rv10_005.htm which I think will work out very well. There are no instructions for how to blind mount the guides (drilled and screwed from the back) which I havent decided on a solution yet. They are also thicker then the door opening, so I will either need to mill them down or relieve them into the fiberglass door jam. It took a lot of extra time to figure out how to adapt the pushrods which Steve has done with flat stock in his door handle solution. http://www.iflyrv10.com/iflyrv10/index.html I dont see what he proposes for inside door handles but I like the rest of his approach and it would probably be the approach I would select if I were to so it over again. Using the tubular stock for push rods required that I buy eight rod end bearings (at $9 apiece) to thread into the tubes for pivot points. A side comment; the Hendricks door locks are way too big (sticking out). Im going to try to adapt the locks used on the baggage door which will add the advantage of them all being keyed the same. Otherwise, I love the look of the flush outside handles. I miss the button release feature for the inside handles and I love the Door Guide and Pin sets. It reminded me once again of how much extra time it takes to change away form anything that is not on the plans. Nick (40015, finish kit) C: 916-425-1064 Nick(at)NLeonard.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128967#128967 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Flush door latch
Date: Aug 14, 2007
Part of the ugliness of Van's latches is the inside handle. IMHO if you make that look as pretty as your outside, and it locks in flight you will have a winner. Gary 40274 Wiring OP panel -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DiNieri Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 12:22 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Flush door latch I've got to admit, I got my inspiration from the handles offered by Hendricks mfg. and another from overseas. I was to be a customer but I was disappointed on the size of the handle and lack of adaptability to our specific application. So I drew up a handle meeting several criteria. first, I wanted the profile to fit within the door, (1" thick) second, I didn't want to modify the vans interior handle and latch/lock assembly. Everything inside the door is as vans intended. Especially the inside lock. third, I wanted to make it specifically for the rv10, not a generic "make it work" kind of part... fourth, I wanted the exterior handle placed in the rear of the door where I climb up to ease access. Additional considerations were also (kiss), ambidextrous parts (all but one!), the ability to add key cylinders, and the ability to add the handle to a flying aircraft as easily as one during construction. Oh by the way, we build airplanes by gosh, so I expect everyone to take the handles apart, so I include an extra spring and bearing....:) Steve dinieri Iflyrv10.com 716.579.5790 (sorry if this sounded like a commercial but I had a few emails already asking what makes mine different) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nick(at)nleonard.com Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 2:09 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Flush door latch Rob, I ended up using the ACS Experimental Door Handles which uses the same billet style as the others. Its made by Hendricks Manufacturing; http://www.hendricksmfg.com/latchprod.html and I now see that you can buy them direct for less than what I paid at ACS. Go figure. The outside flush mount came out very nicely, although the full-size template that came with the unit isnt really full-size. It was actually easier to just do a layout, centering the pivot point with the handle opening recess of the door. That part of the installation was easy and came out very nicely. The outside flush handles will look great. However, it was the looks of the inside handles that I couldnt stand and prompted the change. Hendricks cautions you not to take the units apart. There is a small spring and ball bearing that is used for the detent that needs to be captured. Im not sure I could have fit the unit without taking it apart but putting it back together while on the plane will be more challenging than if it was out on the bench. However, it is certainly doable. I used the inside handles (I needed to reverse them side for side) and created a fiberglass cover that will protect the handle from being accidentally opened while it also covers the fiberglass that I had to cut out of the door (most of the handle recess area). You lose the button locking functionality with these handles which isnt an issue on the outside but needs a solution on the inside so that someone doesnt accidentally yank it open while in flight. My fiberglass covers will protect the handles sufficiently so that there are no exposed edges of the handles to be caught. Because the pivoting offset of the new handles is different than Vans, I couldnt see how to use the original geared arrangement. I used the same pushrod tubing but created a pivot point near the outside of the door. I also put a second nylon block just inside of the original locations to support greater alignment surface of the push pins. I also used the Door Guide and Pin Set from Rivethead, http://www.rivethead-aero.com/rv10_005.htm which I think will work out very well. There are no instructions for how to blind mount the guides (drilled and screwed from the back) which I havent decided on a solution yet. They are also thicker then the door opening, so I will either need to mill them down or relieve them into the fiberglass door jam. It took a lot of extra time to figure out how to adapt the pushrods which Steve has done with flat stock in his door handle solution. http://www.iflyrv10.com/iflyrv10/index.html I dont see what he proposes for inside door handles but I like the rest of his approach and it would probably be the approach I would select if I were to so it over again. Using the tubular stock for push rods required that I buy eight rod end bearings (at $9 apiece) to thread into the tubes for pivot points. A side comment; the Hendricks door locks are way too big (sticking out). Im going to try to adapt the locks used on the baggage door which will add the advantage of them all being keyed the same. Otherwise, I love the look of the flush outside handles. I miss the button release feature for the inside handles and I love the Door Guide and Pin sets. It reminded me once again of how much extra time it takes to change away form anything that is not on the plans. Nick (40015, finish kit) C: 916-425-1064 Nick(at)NLeonard.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128967#128967 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net>
Subject: Avery Tool Customer Service
Date: Aug 14, 2007
I just wanted to highlight Bob Avery's commitment to customer service. I ordered an extension wrench from Avery Tool at Oshkosh so I could torque my propeller bolts. Unfortunately, Avery Tool sold out all of them and couldn't deliver one for 2 months. Just as I was starting to search for a new vendor I got an email from Bob offering the use of their prototype extension wrench. I readily accepted the offer and Bob even paid the postage both ways. The wrench arrived yesterday, I torqued the bolts last night and the wrench is back in the mail to be used by two other builders with the same problem. Thanks Bob! Sheldon Olesen #40080 Cowling and Baffling ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Byron Gillespie" <bgill1(at)charter.net>
Subject: Quiet out there - was Control Cable Questions
Date: Aug 14, 2007
Awfully quiet out there.. I guess I should have mentioned "alternative engines" or "primer" to stir the pot :-). Still haven't heard anything from Vans - will try and call them tomorrow. Sure thought that some you would have some suggestions. Byron N253RV assigned - to HOT to work down here!! Question for you folks.. I received my panel two weeks ago (super job Stein!) and have run into a bit of a snag. I am using a canted center panel that sucks up a little more cable length than the standard panel. By my calculations I need about 2 to 2.5 inches for each cable. The options that I am looking at are: 1. Buy new cables from Aircraft Spruce - that would leave me with up to 10 inches of extra cable to "route away" plus the cost of the cables. * Secondary question is the FFW cables appear to be A-760 cables whereas others from Wicks and ACS are A-750 - Any idea what the difference is?? 2. Purchase "custom" cable lengths at the price of ~ $ 130 each - still would be the A-750 cables 3. Investigate the Van's Quadrant - like Tim has. Still may have the same length issue but could order custom lengths from Vans. Are the cables the same length for the quadrant? I have sent an e-mail to Vans with the same questions but thought it may be good idea to question the experts who have gone before. :-) Thanks for any info! Byron N253RV assigned - still finishing..connecting the panel to the "stuff". ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dogsbark(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Quiet out there - was Control Cable Questions
Date: Aug 15, 2007
Hey Byron, It took a few days for me to hear from Van's regarding the bent nose gear I have. Good news....they are sending a replacement and I don't even have to send the original back. Please let us know what you figure out on the cables. I too am interested in the canted panel. Thanks everyone for your responses. Sean Blair #40225 -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Byron Gillespie" <bgill1(at)charter.net> Awfully quiet out there.. I guess I should have mentioned alternative engines or primer to stir the pot J. Still havent heard anything from Vans will try and call them tomorrow. Sure thought that some you would have some suggestions. Byron N253RV assigned to HOT to work down here!! Question for you folks. I received my panel two weeks ago (super job Stein!) and have run into a bit of a snag. I am using a canted center panel that sucks up a little more cable length than the standard panel. By my calculations I need about 2 to 2.5 inches for each cable. The options that I am looking at are: 1. Buy new cables from Aircraft Spruce that would leave me with up to 10 inches of extra cable to route away plus the cost of the cables. Secondary question is the FFW cables appear to be A-760 cables whereas others from Wicks and ACS are A-750 Any idea what the difference is?? 2. Purchase custom cable lengths at the price of ~ $ 130 each still would be the A-750 cables 3. Investigate the Vans Quadrant like Tim has. Still may have the same length issue but could order custom lengths from Vans. Are the cables the same length for the quadrant? I have sent an e-mail to Vans with the same questions but thought it may be good idea to question the experts who have gone before. J Thanks for any info! Byron N253RV assigned still finishingconnecting the panel to the stuff.
Hey Byron,

It took a few days for me to hear from Van's regarding the bent nose gear I have. Good news....they are sending a replacement and I don't even have to send the original back.

Please let us know what you figure out on the cables. I too am interested in the canted panel.

Thanks everyone for your responses.

Sean Blair

#40225

Awfully quiet out there.. I guess I should have mentioned alternative engines or primer to stir the pot J.

Still havent heard anything from Vans will try and call them tomorrow. Sure thought that some you would have some suggestions.

Byron
N253RV assigned to HOT to work down here!!

Question for you folks.

I received my panel two weeks ago (super job Stein!) and have run into a bit of a snag. I am using a canted center panel that sucks up a little more cable length than the standard panel. By my calculations I need about 2 to 2.5 inches for each cable. The options that I am looking at are:

 1. Buy new cables from Aircraft Spruce that would leave me with up to 10 inches of extra cable to route away plus the cost of the cables.
 Secondary question is the FFW cables appear to be A-760 cables whereas others fro m Wick s and ACS are A-750 Any idea what the difference is??
 2. Purchase custom cable lengths at the price of ~ $ 130 each still would be the A-750 cables
3. Investigate the Vans Quadrant like Tim has. Still may have the same length issue but could order custom lengths from Vans. Are the cables the same length for the quadrant?

I have sent an e-mail to Vans with the same questions but thought it may be good idea to question the experts who have gone before. J

Thanks for any info!

Byron
N253RV assigned still finishingconnecting the panel to the stuff.

________________________________________________________________________________
From: dogsbark(at)comcast.net
Subject: fun stuff
Date: Aug 15, 2007
I stumbled across this page and enjoyed it. http://www.skygod.com/quotes/flyingjokes.html Sean Blair #40225
I stumbled across this page and enjoyed it.

http://www.skygod.com/quotes/flyingjokes.html

Sean Blair

#40225

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Nose gear
Date: Aug 15, 2007
Not a drama, but when your plane is your pride and joy and you work your ass off building it...for me, the slightest imperfection weighs heavy on the perception. Of course minus the occassional, slight rivet gun blemish. Van's has always been great and it is a huge undertaking, just wish the people they contract with had the same attention to detail. My break reservoir bolt holes did not line up with the reservior oil line outlet so the hole in the firewall would either need to be enlarged or the mounting plate removed and re welded. Then there was the control stick issue. sounds like lousy dentistry to me. John >From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Nose gear >Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:22:35 +1000 > > > >I had a stuffed gear leg and they replaced it all the way to here >downunder. About $330 US in freight and they paid. >No dramas. > >----- Original Message ----- From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> >To: >Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 6:32 AM >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Nose gear > > >> >>Looks like the sub contractor's jig was mis aligned or they didn't use it. >>One of my control sticks had this problem...lousy quality control. >> >>With that front tire always cocked over to the left, you'll resemble a >>road grader. >> >>JOhn >> >> >>>From: dogsbark(at)comcast.net >>>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >>>Subject: RV10-List: Nose gear >>>Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 06:14:33 +0000 >>> >>>I started putting on the landing gear tonight and noticed the nose gear >>>has a curve in it. The curve creates a gap of about 3/16th of an inch >>>left to right when I put a straight edge on it. Has anyone else seen >>>this? >>> >>>Also, it appears the gear has a slight twist in the longitudinal axis. >>> >>>I will let Van's know. Just curious of other's experience. >>> >>>Here's a link to a pic. >>> >>>http://websites.expercraft.com/seanb/images/149276665146bea29a87a21.jpg >>> >>> >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Sean Blair >>>#40225 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2007
From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Battery Tray for a pair of Odyssey 680s
I'm looking at putting a pair of 680s in the normal battery location. I know several others have done this... would you be so kind as to share your tray design? The plan is to do a Z-14 with the ability to crank the engine with 1 or both batts. Any comments on that welcome. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Quiet out there - was Control Cable Questions
Date: Aug 15, 2007
Byron, I went through the same thing on my 7 and would just throw this out to think about. If you are using the Vans brackets, you also have to make sure the throw and threaded part are in the same place. I found the exact look alike cables at ACS but the throws were different and they had to go back because there was not enough adjustment to work with the Vans bracket. Eventually , I decided that there was not enough bind to make a difference. Bill S 7a Ark _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Byron Gillespie Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 8:31 PM Subject: RV10-List: Quiet out there - was Control Cable Questions Awfully quiet out there.. I guess I should have mentioned "alternative engines" or "primer" to stir the pot :-). Still haven't heard anything from Vans - will try and call them tomorrow. Sure thought that some you would have some suggestions. Byron N253RV assigned - to HOT to work down here!! Question for you folks.. I received my panel two weeks ago (super job Stein!) and have run into a bit of a snag. I am using a canted center panel that sucks up a little more cable length than the standard panel. By my calculations I need about 2 to 2.5 inches for each cable. The options that I am looking at are: 1. Buy new cables from Aircraft Spruce - that would leave me with up to 10 inches of extra cable to "route away" plus the cost of the cables. * Secondary question is the FFW cables appear to be A-760 cables whereas others from Wicks and ACS are A-750 - Any idea what the difference is?? 2. Purchase "custom" cable lengths at the price of ~ $ 130 each - still would be the A-750 cables 3. Investigate the Van's Quadrant - like Tim has. Still may have the same length issue but could order custom lengths from Vans. Are the cables the same length for the quadrant? I have sent an e-mail to Vans with the same questions but thought it may be good idea to question the experts who have gone before. :-) Thanks for any info! Byron N253RV assigned - still finishing..connecting the panel to the "stuff". ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Battery Tray for a pair of Odyssey 680s
Date: Aug 15, 2007
Dan Lloyd had designed a nice tray, but I couldn't find any pictures in the archives. Dan also made some seat levers too. Dan, Can you share your battery tray and seat levers with us again? Thanks, Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:50 PM Subject: RV10-List: Battery Tray for a pair of Odyssey 680s I'm looking at putting a pair of 680s in the normal battery location. I know several others have done this... would you be so kind as to share your tray design? The plan is to do a Z-14 with the ability to crank the engine with 1 or both batts. Any comments on that welcome. __________ NOD32 2464 (20070815) Information __________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Tray for a pair of Odyssey 680s
Here are some pictures of how I did it. =0Ahttp://www.scottandranae.smugmug .com/gallery/554620#50657776=0A=0AScott Schmidt=0Ascottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc .rr.com>=0ATo: RV10-List Digest Server =0ASent: We dnesday, August 15, 2007 4:50:14 PM=0ASubject: RV10-List: Battery Tray for =0A=0AI'm looking at putting a pair of 680s in the normal battery location. I =0Aknow several others have done this... would you be so kind as to share =0Ayour tray design?=0A=0AThe plan is to do a Z- 14 with the ability to crank the engine with 1 or =0Aboth batts. Any comme =========================0A -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Battery Tray for a pair of Odyssey 680s
William Here's a link to a photo album it's got about 10 pics (follow the controls on the left of the page) that shows how I modified mine, I've got 2 680's and am building a Z14 arch. Battery tray const. http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2039%20Control%20System/slides/DSC02860.html With Batteries installed : http://deemsrv10.com/album/Wiring/slides/DSC03227.html I'm using a 60 amp alt as the main and the SD-20 as the Aux. (parallel). To the best of my ability it's wired per Nuckols drawing. (except batts grounded to airframe in rear) In the picture below the START switch (lower left) will momentarily couple both batteries together, moving the switch the other direction activated the Cross feed contactor couple the systems if desired/necessary. http://deemsrv10.com/album/Panel/slides/DSC05267.html Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ MauleDriver wrote: > > I'm looking at putting a pair of 680s in the normal battery location. > I know several others have done this... would you be so kind as to > share your tray design? > > The plan is to do a Z-14 with the ability to crank the engine with 1 > or both batts. Any comments on that welcome. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2007
From: Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Tray for a pair of Odyssey 680s
Check Mike Sausens page, I used his method, very simple. Rick S. 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:50:14 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RV10-List: Battery Tray for a pair of Odyssey 680s I'm looking at putting a pair of 680s in the normal battery location. I know several others have done this... would you be so kind as to share your tray design? The plan is to do a Z-14 with the ability to crank the engine with 1 or both batts. Any comments on that welcome. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Battery Tray for a pair of Odyssey 680s
From: "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Date: Aug 15, 2007
Here's the way I did it... Zack quote="MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com"]I'm looking at putting a pair of 680s in the normal battery location. I know several others have done this... would you be so kind as to share your tray design? The plan is to do a Z-14 with the ability to crank the engine with 1 or both batts. Any comments on that welcome.[/quote] -------- RV8 #80125 RV10 # 40512 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129390#129390 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc06466_465.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc06462_133.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc06460_182.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Engine Logbook
Date: Aug 16, 2007
Here's an odd question that I should know the answer to having built several airplanes prior to the RV-10 but can't remember. Regarding documenting the annual conditional inspection the operating limitations specifically state what has to be written in the aircraft logbook. Is there anything specific that needs to be documented in the engine logbook? Thanks, Marcus 40286 - hard to believe it's already been a year! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Battery Tray for a pair of Odyssey 680s
Date: Aug 16, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Tim has them posted on his website under the modifications section, at least for the battery tray. The seat levers were based off of someone else's, but I had an Mechanical Engineer in New York redesign them because the ones that the other person were selling were breaking at the pivot point. What we did was to put in a floating pin, so that the pivot stress was reduced. I can take some pictures and post them if anyone is interested. Dan N289DT RV10E -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:43 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Tray for a pair of Odyssey 680s Dan Lloyd had designed a nice tray, but I couldn't find any pictures in the archives. Dan also made some seat levers too. Dan, Can you share your battery tray and seat levers with us again? Thanks, Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:50 PM Subject: RV10-List: Battery Tray for a pair of Odyssey 680s I'm looking at putting a pair of 680s in the normal battery location. I know several others have done this... would you be so kind as to share your tray design? The plan is to do a Z-14 with the ability to crank the engine with 1 or both batts. Any comments on that welcome. __________ NOD32 2464 (20070815) Information __________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Engine Logbook
Date: Aug 16, 2007
Here is my logbook entry: "I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on 8/4/07 in accordance with the scope and detail of Appendix D to part 43 and was found to be in a condition for safe operation" Mark N410MR >From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net> >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV10-List: Engine Logbook >Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 06:32:35 -0500 > >Here's an odd question that I should know the answer to having built >several >airplanes prior to the RV-10 but can't remember. Regarding documenting the >annual conditional inspection the operating limitations specifically state >what has to be written in the aircraft logbook. Is there anything specific >that needs to be documented in the engine logbook? > > >Thanks, > >Marcus > >40286 - hard to believe it's already been a year! > _________________________________________________________________ Now you can see troublebefore he arrives http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2007
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Logbook
The funny part is that various FSDOs had a running debate for years on this topic concerning TC aircraft. Some said only in airframe logbook, some said put 100 hour in engine and prop logs, some didn't care. Now there is specific guidance from HQ, that the statement has to be in the aircraft records, but not necessarily in any particular logbook. It sort of leads yo u to the airframe, simply because the other two may change. On 8/16/07, Marcus Cooper wrote: > > Here's an odd question that I should know the answer to having built > several airplanes prior to the RV-10 but can't remember. Regarding > documenting the annual conditional inspection the operating limitations > specifically state what has to be written in the aircraft logbook. Is th ere > anything specific that needs to be documented in the engine logbook? > > > Thanks, > > Marcus > > 40286 ' hard to believe it's already been a year! > > * > =========== =========== =========== > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2007
From: "James K Hovis" <james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Logbook
On my old airplane, my IA would record the compression readings, any engine AD compliance needed, and any other general maintenance and repair work done to the engine. In the airframe log, basically the same type information dealing with the airframe along with the engine work so there are two records of work done to the engine. Kevin H. On 8/16/07, Mark Ritter wrote: > > Here is my logbook entry: > > "I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on 8/4/07 in accordance > with the scope and detail of Appendix D to part 43 and was found to be in a > condition for safe operation" > > Mark > N410MR > > > >From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net> > >Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: RV10-List: Engine Logbook > >Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 06:32:35 -0500 > > > >Here's an odd question that I should know the answer to having built > >several > >airplanes prior to the RV-10 but can't remember. Regarding documenting the > >annual conditional inspection the operating limitations specifically state > >what has to be written in the aircraft logbook. Is there anything specific > >that needs to be documented in the engine logbook? > > > > > > > >Thanks, > > > >Marcus > > > >40286 - hard to believe it's already been a year! > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Now you can see troublebefore he arrives > http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: Engine Logbook
Date: Aug 16, 2007
Marcus, My experience is that if you state that the "aircraft" has been inspected, that covers the engine too as far as being legal. The problem with that is you end up with a big, blank engine log which isn't of much value if you ever separate the engine from the airframe. So, for customers I generally write an entry for each logbook, including prop if there is one, telling what I did. One philosophy is to document as little as necessary. Less ammo I suppose. I more or less go the other direction. However...my own RV-10 logbook will essentially merge the flight and maintenance log. Pertinent engine/prop/avionics mx will get photocopied and filed separately. Hopefully the Excel format (attached) will allow me to easily transfer the original paper to the spreadsheet. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 4:33 AM Subject: RV10-List: Engine Logbook Here's an odd question that I should know the answer to having built several airplanes prior to the RV-10 but can't remember. Regarding documenting the annual conditional inspection the operating limitations specifically state what has to be written in the aircraft logbook. Is there anything specific that needs to be documented in the engine logbook? Thanks, Marcus 40286 - hard to believe it's already been a year! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2007
From: "James K Hovis" <james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Logbook
Here's the logic for recording engine related data in the engine: On my old AA-1A, it had a STC'd 160hp engine that came from a Cherokee. There wasn't hardly any data in the logbook from when it was in the Cherokee, especially AD compliance. (Note: I bought the airplane from a couple guys who bought it to fix up and resell) When the previous owners to me bought the bird (my IA was one of them), they went through the engine and even tracked down the Cherokee it came out of to be sure the list of AD's against that model engine had been complied with. Keeping maintenence notes on the engine in the engine log also helps track condition trends and if you ever swap out an engine in the future, the new owner of the old engine will have a good paper trail to track back to. Kevin H. On 8/16/07, Kelly McMullen wrote: > The funny part is that various FSDOs had a running debate for years on this > topic concerning TC aircraft. Some said only in airframe logbook, some said > put 100 hour in engine and prop logs, some didn't care. Now there is > specific guidance from HQ, that the statement has to be in the aircraft > records, but not necessarily in any particular logbook. It sort of leads you > to the airframe, simply because the other two may change. > > On 8/16/07, Marcus Cooper wrote: > > > > Here's an odd question that I should know the answer to having built > > several airplanes prior to the RV-10 but can't remember. Regarding > > documenting the annual conditional inspection the operating limitations > > specifically state what has to be written in the aircraft logbook. Is > there > > anything specific that needs to be documented in the engine logbook? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Marcus > > > > 40286 hard to believe it's already been a year! > > > > * > > > =========== > =========== > =========== > > > > * > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2007
From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu>
Subject: Seeking good and bad experiences with Plane Power, B&C alternators
I'm thinking of buying either a 60 Amp alternator made by either Plane Power ($375 including internal regulator and OV from Van's) or B&C ($595 + $228 for regulator & OV = $823) for my RV-10. The Plane Power price and simplicity are quite appealing. I've heard good things about Plane Power, and have heard of only a single failure in the field. B&C also has a very good reputation. So I'm seeking experiences, both good and bad, from people who have put a few hours on a Plane Power (or B&C) alternator. Thanks, Tim Lewis -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2007
From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu>
Subject: Seeking good and bad experiences with Plane Power, B&C alternators
I'm thinking of buying either a 60 Amp alternator made by either Plane Power ($375 including internal regulator and OV from Van's) or B&C ($595 + $228 for regulator & OV = $823) for my RV-10. The Plane Power price and simplicity are quite appealing. I've heard good things about Plane Power, and have heard of only a single failure in the field. B&C also has a very good reputation. So I'm seeking experiences, both good and bad, from people who have put a few hours on a Plane Power (or B&C) alternator. Thanks, Tim Lewis -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Can an empty party balloon tank be reused as an air tank?
From: "Bill Reining" <wreining(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 16, 2007
Anybody tried changing the fitting and using one of these party balloon helium tanks as an air tank (e.g. for flat tires away from the compressor.) The one I have is about the same size as a common propane cylinder, but not as heavy/beefy. I guess what I am really after is a little reassurance the thing will safely hold 100 psi or so. -------- Bill (and Jon) Reining 40514 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129525#129525 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: travelling to Dallas
Date: Aug 16, 2007
I'll be traveling to Dallas the week of September 17th. I would love to hook up with any RV-10 builders in the area. Especially if you have a flying one! Bob Leffler #40684 - Empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NormRainey(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 16, 2007
Subject: Re: Van's Homecoming
Just waiting for an FAA inspection here in Independence. Come down Golf taxiway at the north end of the airpark. Norm Rainey #40348 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Seeking good and bad experiences with Plane Power, B&C
alternators
Date: Aug 16, 2007
You get what you pay for here. I have seen 2 fail in the field, which is only good for testing how you will handle the power-out situation. Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc jesse(at)saintaviation.com www.saintaviation.com 352-427-0285 Leather interior kit for the RV-10 - www.saintaviation.com/interior -----Original Message----- From: "Tim Lewis" <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> Sent: 8/16/2007 8:26 PM Subject: RV10-List: Seeking good and bad experiences with Plane Power, B&C alternators I'm thinking of buying either a 60 Amp alternator made by either Plane Power ($375 including internal regulator and OV from Van's) or B&C ($595 + $228 for regulator & OV = $823) for my RV-10. The Plane Power price and simplicity are quite appealing. I've heard good things about Plane Power, and have heard of only a single failure in the field. B&C also has a very good reputation. So I'm seeking experiences, both good and bad, from people who have put a few hours on a Plane Power (or B&C) alternator. Thanks, Tim Lewis -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2007
Subject: Seeking good and bad experiences with Plane Power, B&C
alternators
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>
The RV-10 firewall forward kit *use* to come with the Van's (Nippondenso) 60A alternator. I can't remember who, but someone told me at OSH that they have replaced the Nippondenso 60A (ES ALTERNATOR 60A KIT) with the Plane Power 60 (ES ALTERNATOR DELUXE) in the Firewall Forward kits. I elected to upgrade to the PP unit for the additional $100. Can anyone receiving the Firewall Forward Kit recently confirm this? William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ -------- Original Message -------- > > I'm thinking of buying either a 60 Amp alternator made by either Plane > Power ($375 including internal regulator and OV from Van's) or B&C > ($595 + $228 for regulator & OV = $823) for my RV-10. The Plane Power > price and simplicity are quite appealing. I've heard good things about > Plane Power, and have heard of only a single failure in the field. B&C > also has a very good reputation. So I'm seeking experiences, both good > and bad, from people who have put a few hours on a Plane Power (or B&C) > alternator. > > Thanks, > > Tim Lewis > > -- > Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) > RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs > RV-10 #40059 under construction ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vernon Smith <planesmith(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Van's Homecoming
Date: Aug 17, 2007
There is at least one more 10 project underway on the field other than Norm 's. Nice job Norm, it looks sharp! My project is a 30 minute drive south of the airport, however I look forwar d to meeting some of you on Saturday. Vern Smith (#324 control systems)> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 20:39:29 -0400> F rom: LarryRosen(at)comcast.net> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: RV10-Lis osen(at)comcast.net>> > I will be a the Van's Homecoming this Saturday at Inde pendence Airpark. > Anyone from the list attending? Will any 10s be there?> ========================> _ =======================> > > _________________________________________________________________ Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2007
From: Dan Benua <danbenua(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Seeking good and bad experiences with Plane Power, B
I have the B&C 60A alternator and LR-3 regulator in my RV-6A. Total reliability for 8 years and 860 flight hours so far. My RV-10 will have the same equipment. - Dan Benua #40001 "Finishing....." > I'm thinking of buying either a 60 Amp alternator made by either Plane > Power ($375 including internal regulator and OV from Van's) or B&C > ($595 + $228 for regulator & OV = $823) for my RV-10. The Plane Power > price and simplicity are quite appealing. I've heard good things about > Plane Power, and have heard of only a single failure in the field. B&C > also has a very good reputation. So I'm seeking experiences, both good > and bad, from people who have put a few hours on a Plane Power (or B&C) > alternator. > Thanks, > Tim Lewis Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Seeking good and bad experiences with Plane Power, B&C
alternators
Date: Aug 19, 2007
William I deleted the Vans Alt from F/ forward kit and got Aerosport to put on a plane power alt. I got my FF kit a year ago. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 1:50 AM Subject: re: RV10-List: Seeking good and bad experiences with Plane Power, B&C alternators > > The RV-10 firewall forward kit *use* to come with the Van's (Nippondenso) > 60A alternator. I can't remember who, but someone told me at OSH that > they have replaced the Nippondenso 60A (ES ALTERNATOR 60A KIT) with the > Plane Power 60 (ES ALTERNATOR DELUXE) in the Firewall Forward kits. I > elected to upgrade to the PP unit for the additional $100. Can anyone > receiving the Firewall Forward Kit recently confirm this? > > William > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ > > -------- Original Message -------- >> >> I'm thinking of buying either a 60 Amp alternator made by either Plane >> Power ($375 including internal regulator and OV from Van's) or B&C >> ($595 + $228 for regulator & OV = $823) for my RV-10. The Plane Power >> price and simplicity are quite appealing. I've heard good things about >> Plane Power, and have heard of only a single failure in the field. B&C >> also has a very good reputation. So I'm seeking experiences, both good >> and bad, from people who have put a few hours on a Plane Power (or B&C) >> alternator. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Tim Lewis >> >> -- >> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) >> RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs >> RV-10 #40059 under construction > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: elhershb(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Seeking good and bad experiences with Plane Power, B&C
alternators
Date: Aug 19, 2007
Last week I ordered my FWF kit from the list provided from Van's. This list shows part: ES Alternator Deluxe (60A kit w/OV protection). This is in the 2007 Accessories Catalog from Van's on page 10. The description states that it is the "Plane Power" alternator. Ed (40430) Wings -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> > > William I deleted the Vans Alt from F/ forward kit and got Aerosport to put > on a plane power alt. I got my FF kit a year ago. > > Chris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Curtis" > To: > Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 1:50 AM > Subject: re: RV10-List: Seeking good and bad experiences with Plane Power, > B&C alternators > > > > > > The RV-10 firewall forward kit *use* to come with the Van's (Nippondenso) > > 60A alternator. I can't remember who, but someone told me at OSH that > > they have replaced the Nippondenso 60A (ES ALTERNATOR 60A KIT) with the > > Plane Power 60 (ES ALTERNATOR DELUXE) in the Firewall Forward kits. I > > elected to upgrade to the PP unit for the additional $100. Can anyone > > receiving the Firewall Forward Kit recently confirm this? > > > > William > > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > >> > >> I'm thinking of buying either a 60 Amp alternator made by either Plane > >> Power ($375 including internal regulator and OV from Van's) or B&C > >> ($595 + $228 for regulator & OV = $823) for my RV-10. The Plane Power > >> price and simplicity are quite appealing. I've heard good things about > >> Plane Power, and have heard of only a single failure in the field. B&C > >> also has a very good reputation. So I'm seeking experiences, both good > >> and bad, from people who have put a few hours on a Plane Power (or B&C) > >> alternator. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Tim Lewis > >> > >> -- > >> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) > >> RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs > >> RV-10 #40059 under construction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Last week I ordered my FWF kit from the list provided from Van's. This list shows part: ES Alternator Deluxe (60A kit w/OV protection). This is in the 2007 Accessories Catalog from Van's on page 10. The description states that it is the "Plane Power" alternator.

Ed (40430)

Wings

> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris and Susie McGough"
>
> William I deleted the Vans Alt from F/ forward kit and got Aerosport to put
> on a plane power alt. I got my FF kit a year ago.
>
> Chris
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Curtis" <WCURTIS(at)NERV10.COM> > To:
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 1:50 AM
> Subject: re: RV10-List: Seeking good and bad experiences with Plane Power,
> B&C alternators
>
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "William Curtis"
> >
> > The RV-10 firewall forward kit *use* to come with the Van's (Nippondenso)
> > 60A alterna tor. I can't remember who, but someone told me at OSH that
> > they have replaced the Nippondenso 60A (ES ALTERNATOR 60A KIT) with the
> > Plane Power 60 (ES ALTERNATOR DELUXE) in the Firewall Forward kits. I
> > elected to upgrade to the PP unit for the additional $100. Can anyone
> > receiving the Firewall Forward Kit recently confirm this?
> >
> > William
> > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Lewis
> >>
> >> I'm thinking of buying either a 60 Amp alternator made by either Plane
> >> Power ($375 including internal regulator and OV from Van's) or B&C
> >> ($595 + $228 for regulator & OV = $823) for my RV-10. The Plane Power
> >> price and simplicity are quite appealing. I've heard good things about
> ; > Downlo

________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2007
Subject: Re: Seeking good and bad experiences with Plane Power, B&C
alternators
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>
That confirms it--the Plane Power 60A DELUXE alternator is now standard in the FWF kit. Either enough people were excluding or upgrading so they are just including it now. This was not the case with my kit purchsed in May '07. William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ -------- Original Message -------- > > Last week I ordered my FWF kit from the list provided from Van's. This list shows part: ES Alternator Deluxe (60A kit w/OV protection). This is in the 2007 Accessories Catalog from Van's on page 10. The description states that it is the "Plane Power" alternator. > > Ed (40430) > Wings > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com> > > > > > William I deleted the Vans Alt from F/ forward kit and got Aerosport to put > > on a plane power alt. I got my FF kit a year ago. > > > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William Curtis" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 1:50 AM > > Subject: re: RV10-List: Seeking good and bad experiences with Plane Power, > > B&C alternators > > > > > > > > > > The RV-10 firewall forward kit *use* to come with the Van's (Nippondenso) > > > 60A alternator. I can't remember who, but someone told me at OSH that > > > they have replaced the Nippondenso 60A (ES ALTERNATOR 60A KIT) with the > > > Plane Power 60 (ES ALTERNATOR DELUXE) in the Firewall Forward kits. I > > > elected to upgrade to the PP unit for the additional $100. Can anyone > > > receiving the Firewall Forward Kit recently confirm this? > > > > > > William > > > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > >> > > >> I'm thinking of buying either a 60 Amp alternator made by either Plane > > >> Power ($375 including internal regulator and OV from Van's) or B&C > > >> ($595 + $228 for regulator & OV = $823) for my RV-10. The Plane Power > > >> price and simplicity are quite appealing. I've heard good things about > > >> Plane Power, and have heard of only a single failure in the field. B&C > > >> also has a very good reputation. So I'm seeking experiences, both good > > >> and bad, from people who have put a few hours on a Plane Power (or B&C) > > >> alternator. > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> > > >> Tim Lewis > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) > > >> RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs > > >> RV-10 #40059 under construction ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Seeking good and bad experiences with Plane Power, B&C
alter
From: "zackrv8" <zackrv8(at)verizon.net>
Date: Aug 19, 2007
Also, in regards to the FWF kit, I recieved a Niagra Oil Cooler (SCT'ed) in my FWF kit instead of the Positech or other brands that Van's was shipping. I guess Van's realized that there could/might be a an oil temp issue. Zack wcurtis(at)nerv10.com wrote: > That confirms it--the Plane Power 60A DELUXE alternator is now standard in the FWF kit. Either enough people were excluding or upgrading so they are just including it now. This was not the case with my kit purchsed in May '07. > > William > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ > > ------ -------- RV8 #80125 RV10 # 40512 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129830#129830 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Blue Plastic removal
Date: Aug 19, 2007
I started out removing strips of the blue protective plastic to allow for dimpling and riveting. I've had several people comment that they had some corrosion issues focused under the edges of the blue plastic. The most recent was from the technical counselor that was just out for my first counselor visit. So I guess the debate would be which symptom would be worse after 2-3 year build period, scratches or minor corrosion. Since all of these reports have been second hand, I'm looking for feedback from anyone that had any corrosion after the removed the blue plastic at the end of the build. Any strong opinions with either option? Did anyone else find corrosion under the blue plastic when removed? Thanks, Bob #40684 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Blue Plastic removal
From: "egohr1" <EGOHR86(at)alumni.carnegiemellon.edu>
Date: Aug 19, 2007
Can not speak to the corrosion issue. I am stripping the blue plastic from the empanage with was finished 2 years ago and it is coming off in small hard to remove pieces. I stripped the rest of the airplane as it was built. -------- eric gohr EGOHR86(at)alumni.carnegiemellon.edu Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129875#129875 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Blue Plastic removal
Date: Aug 20, 2007
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
I left the vinyl on the skins in the shed extremes of heat/cold, dry/damp for 3+ years. Corrosion was evident, but limited to only very tiny areas at the vinyl edges - not worth a second thought. The vinyl had hardened with age and was a little more difficult to remove, but I have heard that slightly heating the vinyl with a heat gun allows it to come off more easily Cheers, Ron -187 finishing -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of egohr1 Sent: Monday, 20 August 2007 8:14 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Blue Plastic removal --> Can not speak to the corrosion issue. I am stripping the blue plastic from the empanage with was finished 2 years ago and it is coming off in small hard to remove pieces. I stripped the rest of the airplane as it was built. -------- eric gohr EGOHR86(at)alumni.carnegiemellon.edu Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129875#129875 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Blue Plastic removal
Date: Aug 19, 2007
>From my experience with several builds, the bigger issue is the difficulty of removing the plastic after it has been stored for several years. In one extreme case I had to sand off the plastic with a power sander and z-strip paint remover in order to get it off. It is true that a heat gun helps, but the longer it is on and the more it is subjected to sunlight, even through windows, the tougher it is to remove. My solution to the scratch issue is to wrap the part in bubble wrap after it is completed. That protects against scratches and small blows. Gary 40274 Wiring OP Tech panel _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 4:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: Blue Plastic removal I started out removing strips of the blue protective plastic to allow for dimpling and riveting. I've had several people comment that they had some corrosion issues focused under the edges of the blue plastic. The most recent was from the technical counselor that was just out for my first counselor visit. So I guess the debate would be which symptom would be worse after 2-3 year build period, scratches or minor corrosion. Since all of these reports have been second hand, I'm looking for feedback from anyone that had any corrosion after the removed the blue plastic at the end of the build. Any strong opinions with either option? Did anyone else find corrosion under the blue plastic when removed? Thanks, Bob #40684 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Aug 19, 2007
Subject: Blue Plastic removal
I'll echo what Gary said, it can get to be a bear to get the stuff off afte r a while. I also used to do the strips but just didn't see the point anym ore. Besides, you are going to scratch the hell out of it when you go to p aint it anyway. And any minor filliform or other corrosion will also be re moved when you go to sand it. Better to let it breath in my opinion. Michael From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 4:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: Blue Plastic removal I started out removing strips of the blue protective plastic to allow for d impling and riveting. I've had several people comment that they had some corrosion issues focused under the edges of the blue plastic. The most re cent was from the technical counselor that was just out for my first counse lor visit. So I guess the debate would be which symptom would be worse after 2-3 year build period, scratches or minor corrosion. Since all of these reports ha ve been second hand, I'm looking for feedback from anyone that had any corr osion after the removed the blue plastic at the end of the build. Any strong opinions with either option? Did anyone else find corrosion un der the blue plastic when removed? Thanks, Bob #40684 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Aug 19, 2007
Subject: Re: Seeking good and bad experiences with Plane Power,
B&C alter I believe the Niagra is what Van has shipped for most, if not all, of the 10's. This is the one that most of us are talking about improving on. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of zackrv8 Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 1:10 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Seeking good and bad experiences with Plane Power, B&C alter Also, in regards to the FWF kit, I recieved a Niagra Oil Cooler (SCT'ed) in my FWF kit instead of the Positech or other brands that Van's was shipping. I guess Van's realized that there could/might be a an oil temp issue. Zack wcurtis(at)nerv10.com wrote: > That confirms it--the Plane Power 60A DELUXE alternator is now standard in the FWF kit. Either enough people were excluding or upgrading so they are just including it now. This was not the case with my kit purchsed in May '07. > > William > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ > > ------ -------- RV8 #80125 RV10 # 40512 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129830#129830 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flap switch install?
Date: Aug 19, 2007
From: <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero>
Where have folks installed the micro-switch on the flap system for use with an AOA Sport? I checked the website, but couldn't find anything specific on the preferred install location. Pictures appreciated, if you can send them directly to my email address. (us digest folks don't get attachments) Thanks, TDT Tim Dawson-Townsend Aurora Flight Sciences tdt(at)aurora.aero 617-500-4812 (office) 617-905-4800 (mobile) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 19, 2007
Subject: Re: Flap switch install?
i took the easy way and did not install the switch. Just set mine for flaps up stall indication. Works like a champ with the docile stall characteristics of the bird. grumpy N184JM 60+ hours and now into painting it In a message dated 8/19/2007 8:33:13 PM Central Standard Time, tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero writes: Where have folks installed the micro-switch on the flap system for use with an AOA Sport? I checked the website, but couldn=99t find anything spe cific on the preferred install location. Pictures appreciated, if you can send them directly to my email address. (u s digest folks don=99t get attachments) Thanks, TDT Tim Dawson-Townsend Aurora Flight Sciences _tdt(at)aurora.aero_ (mailto:tdt(at)aurora.aero) 617-500-4812 (office) 617-905-4800 (mobile) t http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: LoPresti HID landing lights
From: "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Date: Aug 19, 2007
We purchased a set of the LoPresti HID landing lights for the RV-10 at Sun n' Fun last April. The kit is superb and the drawings and plans are very good. We ran into a major disappointment today, however. I want to stress that this is not a LoPresti problem, but rather a poor planning problem with me. We have purchased and installed the SafeAir1 Extended Range fuel tanks. As we began the process of fitting the wing tips and installing the lighting, I began to be concerned about the HID kit fitting into the wingtip with the tanks. However, it looked like it just might work by moving the position of the ballast assembly for the lights. We found out today, that the two kits are not compatible. The HID kit simply will not fit into the wingtip with the ER tanks, even with major modifications. We learned a good lesson! So, I wanted to send the list a heads up if anyone is considering this particular combination. David and Mary Maib 40559 QB "Sadder but wiser" -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129900#129900 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Blue Plastic removal
Date: Aug 19, 2007
I just removed mine from the completed fuselage. The plastic has been on for 1.5 to 2.5 years. No corrosion and not hard to remove. Rene' 40322 Fisnish...paint 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 3:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: Blue Plastic removal I started out removing strips of the blue protective plastic to allow for dimpling and riveting. I've had several people comment that they had some corrosion issues focused under the edges of the blue plastic. The most recent was from the technical counselor that was just out for my first counselor visit. So I guess the debate would be which symptom would be worse after 2-3 year build period, scratches or minor corrosion. Since all of these reports have been second hand, I'm looking for feedback from anyone that had any corrosion after the removed the blue plastic at the end of the build. Any strong opinions with either option? Did anyone else find corrosion under the blue plastic when removed? Thanks, Bob #40684 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LoPresti HID landing lights
From: "Jim & Julie Wade" <jwade(at)msdeltawireless.com>
Date: Aug 20, 2007
Don't know why you are having a problem!!! I have safeair tanks and lopresti lights. I simply installed the power converter in the last bay of the leading edge. I had it in the wing tip, but moved it because I was getting radio interferance on my nav, because of the nav anteena in the tip. The light is close, but does not conflict with the fuel tank. I LOVE MY LOPESTI LIGHTS!!!!! Jim 369JW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129929#129929 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: LoPresti HID landing lights
Date: Aug 20, 2007
Hi Jim. The power converter is not the problem. The light itself, and the bracket the light is mounted on, hits the tank and will not let me get the tip anywhere near where it needs to be to install. I would love to see some photos if you have any. I would sure love to be able to install these lights. Thanks, David Maib , On Aug 20, 2007, at 7:29 AM, Jim & Julie Wade wrote: > > > Don't know why you are having a problem!!! I have safeair tanks and > lopresti lights. I simply installed the power converter in the > last bay of the leading edge. I had it in the wing tip, but moved > it because I was getting radio interferance on my nav, because of > the nav anteena in the tip. The light is close, but does not > conflict with the fuel tank. > I LOVE MY LOPESTI LIGHTS!!!!! > Jim > 369JW > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129929#129929 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com>
Subject: Sec 29 - Forward Fuse Side Skins riveting question
Date: Aug 20, 2007
On the forward fuse side skins when riveting the very bottom row (the edge that you bent). The rear most 3-3.5 rivet is impossible to buck due to the F-1042 bulkhead above it. The rivet is sandwiched between the bulkhead and the F-1049C fwd fuse floor rib. Does anyone have any wisdom to impart for this rivet? Looks like a good candidate for a MK-319-BS rivet. Ben Westfall PDX #40579 (still on Sec 29) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 2007
From: "pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Sec 29 - Forward Fuse Side Skins riveting question
Looks like a good candidate for a MK-319-BS rivet. Based my (limited) experience building the complete empennage kit I would go the way of the pop rivet. Per Van's one or two MK-319-BS will not be a big deal when the other rivets are correctly riveted. I have learned that trying to rivet something hard to reach is simply not worth it (to me). Pascal #40720 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Westfall To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 9:32 AM Subject: RV10-List: Sec 29 - Forward Fuse Side Skins riveting question On the forward fuse side skins when riveting the very bottom row (the edge that you bent). The rear most 3-3.5 rivet is impossible to buck due to the F-1042 bulkhead above it. The rivet is sandwiched between the bulkhead and the F-1049C fwd fuse floor rib. Does anyone have any wisdom to impart for this rivet? Looks like a good candidate for a MK-319-BS rivet. Ben Westfall PDX #40579 (still on Sec 29) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com>
Subject: Sec 29 - Forward Fuse Side Skins riveting question
Date: Aug 20, 2007
If I remember right, I used a chisel and bucking bar combo to get to that one. Was not easy, but got an acceptable set. Rene' Felker N423CF 40322 801-721-6080 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: RV10-List: Sec 29 - Forward Fuse Side Skins riveting question On the forward fuse side skins when riveting the very bottom row (the edge that you bent). The rear most 3-3.5 rivet is impossible to buck due to the F-1042 bulkhead above it. The rivet is sandwiched between the bulkhead and the F-1049C fwd fuse floor rib. Does anyone have any wisdom to impart for this rivet? Looks like a good candidate for a MK-319-BS rivet. Ben Westfall PDX #40579 (still on Sec 29) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: EGT probes
Date: Aug 21, 2007
Could someone tell me how far down to put the EGT probes on the exhaust please? I know they have to be clear of plugs so just need the distance. Dynon directions say to check with engine manufacturer. regards Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: EGT probes
Date: Aug 20, 2007
Chris, You want them 2"-4" from the head. They should all be as close as possible to the same distance. The tip of the probe is the sensor, so if they end up on a curved section and therefore mounted at an angle, try to measure or at least estimate where the tip will end up. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie McGough Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: RV10-List: EGT probes Could someone tell me how far down to put the EGT probes on the exhaust please? I know they have to be clear of plugs so just need the distance. Dynon directions say to check with engine manufacturer. regards Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: EGT probes
Date: Aug 20, 2007
Using Vetterman exhaust, mine are all about 2''. Put them as far down as possible on the straight portion of the exhaust. Find the cylinder with the shortest straight section and use it as the distance for all. This way they will all be at the same distance from the engine. -----Original Message----- From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> Sent: 8/20/07 6:53 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: EGT probes Chris, You want them 2"-4" from the head. They should all be as close as possible to the same distance. The tip of the probe is the sensor, so if they end up on a curved section and therefore mounted at an angle, try to measure or at least estimate where the tip will end up. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com _____ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris and Susie McGough" <VHMUM(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Maggie leads slick
Date: Aug 21, 2007
Ok another Question. My maggies came with a new harness which is not atached to the maggies. The maggies have a dust cover on them. My question is how do you know how to oriantate the new cover with the wires comming out on to the maggies ? Ok left maggie left harness but it will fit in several positions by rotating. If I look inside the maggie it says L and R and there is also a X. The cover has a number 4 on it on inside and a No 1 on the outside. regards chris thanks for replies for egt ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LoPresti HID landing lights
From: "Jim & Julie Wade" <jwade(at)msdeltawireless.com>
Date: Aug 21, 2007
Lopresti may have changed the bracket since I installed mine. I do not have pics of the installation. I was the first to install, so when to Lopresti in the first install, we epoxied the lites in the first time, that is an option for you. Then they sent me the new adjustable bracket. I cut out the old mount and installed the new one. The Flat side of the mounting plate lays against the tank you may have to remove if I remember correctly. It only took me a couple of hours to install. Perhaps the tip diminsions have change since my kit?? 40383 Or the tank?? Good luck Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130085#130085 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: An opportunity for an enterprising builder w/some fiberglass
skills I recently installed a Ram/filtered/Alternate air system on my engine. http://deemsrv10.com/album/Rod%20Bower%20Ram%20Air/slides/DSC05151.html http://deemsrv10.com/album/Rod%20Bower%20Ram%20Air/slides/DSC05247.html Since there was no filtered air solution available for the BPE forward facing fuel controller, cold air engine, I needed to find/design a solution, I found a good possibility from another builder and was about to implement that when I stumbled on this solution. http://www.lazy8.net/RodBower.htm The system is built by Rob Bower (6 time Master RV builder) I became fascinated by the design and the flexibility, not only does it supply Filtered Air, but it also delivers RAM air and the associated MP increase & performance gains that accompany it! It has a built in safety feature for alternate warm (cowl) air as well. Sort of a 3 in 1 solution! Some of you know I am a sucker for performance improvement modifications, and this one filled the need for a filtered air solution plus providing some performance benefits. The down side was that I had to modify the Will James cowl to replace the oval induction intake with a circular ring and to provide some room for the filter canister. All total it took me 34.75 hours to modify the cowl, install the system and the control linkages, and to fabricate a 'mold' for Rob for others who have the BPE Cold Air and might want to do something similar. I don't know how long installing the standard Van's FAB takes but the difference in hours is worth the added time (for me). Because of my efforts to make a mold for Rob, he made me a VERY GOOD deal on his system ! Rob would like to make his system more widely available to the RV-10 community and is looking for a builder who has a down draft induction system on their engine and would be willing to work with him on an installation. I believe he's willing to make the same VERY GOOD deal to anyone willing to undertake the effort and then provide him a simple 'mold' of any cowl mods. If you are interested you can contact Rob directly @ NB180RB(at)aol.com Other than the break he already provided me I have no financial interest in this, just caught up in the spirit of Experimental Aviation and wanting to provide an opportunity to another RV-10 builder. Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' !!!!!!! http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Fine Wire Spark Plugs
Date: Aug 21, 2007
I'm looking at fine wire spark plugs and see that the Champion fine wire spark plug (REM 38S) sells for $69.50. The equivilent Autolite fine wire spark plug (UREM 38S) sells for $44.50. Does anyone know if the Champion is worth the additional $25.00 per plug? _________________________________________________________________ See what youre getting intobefore you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509(at)msn.com>
Subject: Fine Wire Spark Plugs
Date: Aug 21, 2007
I'm looking at fine wire spark plugs and see that the Champion fine wire spark plug (REM 38S) sells for $69.50. The equivilent Autolite fine wire spark plug (UREM 38S) sells for $44.50. Does anyone know if the Champion is worth the additional $25.00 per plug? _________________________________________________________________ See what youre getting intobefore you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fine Wire Spark Plugs
Date: Aug 21, 2007
From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com>
I can't answer that, but I can tell you I have 12 UREM38S on order from Aircraft Spruce since the beginning of August. Aircraft Spruce, Chief and Sky Geek all had them on backorder. I guess they must be selling a lot of them, since I am unable to find anyone that has stock of them. The latest from Spruce is that they should be in on Sept 1. Thank You Ray Doerr 40250 N519RV (Hobbs=299.1) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Ritter Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 1:57 PM Subject: RV10-List: Fine Wire Spark Plugs I'm looking at fine wire spark plugs and see that the Champion fine wire spark plug (REM 38S) sells for $69.50. The equivilent Autolite fine wire spark plug (UREM 38S) sells for $44.50. Does anyone know if the Champion is worth the additional $25.00 per plug? _________________________________________________________________ See what you're getting into...before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2007
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: LoPresti HID landing lights
Thanks Jim, My kit number is 40559 and I cannot imagine that the wing tip changed. I also bought my SafeAir1 ER tanks about a year ago, so again I would not think they would be different from yours. I am working with the engineers at LoPresti and they seem confidant that we will be able to make this work. On my left wingtip, with the light installed per the instructions, the mounting bracket hits the tank with the wing tip 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch from being in to position on the wing. I am wondering if the light needs to be moved forward quite a bit further than I had it. I had the top adjustment springs almost completely compressed, but maybe the springs need to be re-sized? David On Tuesday, August 21, 2007, at 06:47AM, "Jim & Julie Wade" wrote: > >Lopresti may have changed the bracket since I installed mine. I do not have pics of the installation. I was the first to install, so when to Lopresti in the first install, we epoxied the lites in the first time, that is an option for you. Then they sent me the new adjustable bracket. I cut out the old mount and installed the new one. The Flat side of the mounting plate lays against the tank you may have to remove if I remember correctly. It only took me a couple of hours to install. Perhaps the tip diminsions have change since my kit?? 40383 Or the tank?? >Good luck >Jim > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130085#130085 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go?
Um, what kind of primer should I use? Why doesn't the RV-10 come in a tailwheel model so the real men would be able to fly them? :-) :-) That should get some discussions going again! Matt Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go?
Date: Aug 22, 2007
I was wondering too what had happened. Where is everyone, building? Gary 40274 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:37 PM Subject: RV10-List: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go? Um, what kind of primer should I use? Why doesn't the RV-10 come in a tailwheel model so the real men would be able to fly them? :-) :-) That should get some discussions going again! Matt Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go?
Date: Aug 22, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Maybe we should talk about alternative engines? GRIN. Going down to Florida tomorrow to mount my new carbon fiber cowl. Should loose a couple more pounds, just where I don't need to! Dan N289DT RV10E -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 9:47 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go? I was wondering too what had happened. Where is everyone, building? Gary 40274 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:37 PM Subject: RV10-List: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go? Um, what kind of primer should I use? Why doesn't the RV-10 come in a tailwheel model so the real men would be able to fly them? :-) :-) That should get some discussions going again! Matt Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com>
Subject: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go?
Date: Aug 22, 2007
Were all hanging our subie engines! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 6:47 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go? I was wondering too what had happened. Where is everyone, building? Gary 40274 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:37 PM Subject: RV10-List: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go? Um, what kind of primer should I use? Why doesn't the RV-10 come in a tailwheel model so the real men would be able to fly them? :-) :-) That should get some discussions going again! Matt Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go?
Many people have noticed and commented about the decrease in traffic on this list. I suppose some of it's due to folks squeezing in the last bit of summer vacation, but with over 750 RV-10 builder/fliers the amount of traffic has decreased inversely proportional to the increase in builder numbers ?????? Whats up with that? I'd be interested in understanding what's behind the decrease. Matt are the number of subscribers decreasing or has the bulk of the population moved to the lurker category? I know that when I began my build I was a bit intimidated by those 'experts' that were much further along than I (and therefore 'experts') and was a little reluctant to post at 1st. I believe that this list and the knowledge and expertise of the individuals that are subscribed are the single biggest Boone to my building experience. I'd hate to see it wither up and die. Perhaps there are some that get offended by some of the stronger personalities, I hope not, I figure if I can withstand Rick Sked poking fun at my spelling, that anyone can survive on the list. :-P I get some inquiries from people 'off-list' which I'm happy to reply to, but I learn as much from others exchanges as from my own inquiries, I'd encourage folks to use the list and the experience for the widest benefit (Let's burn some of Matt's bandwidth!) Now if I can just get the maze of wire behind my panel untangled.......should have used Stein! Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go?
Lloyd tell us more about your CF cowl!?!?! Inquiring minds want to know! (maybe I'll be tempted by yet another time exhausting mod!) Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote: > > Maybe we should talk about alternative engines? GRIN. Going down to > Florida tomorrow to mount my new carbon fiber cowl. Should loose a > couple more pounds, just where I don't need to! > Dan > N289DT RV10E > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 9:47 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd > Everyone Go? > > > I was wondering too what had happened. Where is everyone, building? > > Gary > 40274 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:37 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone > Go? > > > Um, what kind of primer should I use? > > Why doesn't the RV-10 come in a tailwheel model so the real men would be > able to fly them? > > :-) > :-) > > That should get some discussions going again! > > Matt > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Paint - not primer
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>
Ok - so the list IS still kickin' I am looking at paint systems (external). Can anyone advise any specific advantages of polyurethanes vs acrylics? I understand that sanding of polyurethane will require repaint, but acrylics can be wet sanded to remove imperfections without removing gloss. Is this true? Acrylic Urethanes appear to be more readily available here in Oz. Is there any drawback of acrylic urethanes vs polyurethanes? Any good reference sites for "aircraft painting tips" A post to the RVs_in_Oz Yahoo list recently suggested that auto paints were not suitable for aircraft '. . .because of the speed they travel' :-) sounds like another urban myth - or is there any substance?? Cheers, Ron 187 finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2007
From: Robert Wright <flywrights(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go?
I'm still in buildus interruptus. Should close on the house on Friday or e arly next week, just in time to go to Iraq for some flying,then come home i n three months, take a few weeks to set up shop in the new hangar, then sta rt building again by about December! :[=0A=0AI'd like to start up some more conversation on the newest things since OSH about the simple EFISs, like w hen is Tru-Trak shipping, the AFS units - are they being installed? The web site hasn't updated any installations for about a year now. Any other unit s out there that provide simple EFIS capability without Dynon's heavy relia nce on pitot-static for AHRS-type info? Oh yeah, don't forget to keep the price down on your recommendations, either, because I have to build the res t of the panel around it - GPS/COM/NAV, AP head, Comm 2, etc.=0A=0ARob=0A#3 92=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Matt Dralle <dralle@matro nics.com>=0ATo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 9:36:43 PM=0ASubject: RV10-List: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd atronics.com>=0A=0A=0AUm, what kind of primer should I use?=0A=0AWhy doesn' t the RV-10 come in a tailwheel model so the real men would be able to fly them? =0A=0A:-)=0A:-)=0A=0AThat should get some discussions going again!=0A =0AMatt=0A=0A=0A=0AMatt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551=0A925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email=0Aht tp://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A ____________________________________________________________ ________________________=0ALuggage? GPS? Comic books? =0ACheck out fitting on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz ________________________________________________________________________________
From: neil <ncol(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go?
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Busy busy busy finishing off as well. All painted at last. BUT DEFINITELY should have got Stein to do the panel - never again! I'm sure I got ET on the RT, and the BBC on my EFIS. DAR next Tuesday! Then we'll know how much we've got to redo like a dodo. Neil ZK - RVT On 23 Aug 2007, at 14:19, Deems Davis wrote: > > Many people have noticed and commented about the decrease in traffic > on this list. I suppose some of it's due to folks squeezing in the > last bit of summer vacation, but with over 750 RV-10 builder/fliers > the amount of traffic has decreased inversely proportional to the > increase in builder numbers ?????? Whats up with that? I'd be > interested in understanding what's behind the decrease. > Matt are the number of subscribers decreasing or has the bulk of the > population moved to the lurker category? > I know that when I began my build I was a bit intimidated by those > 'experts' that were much further along than I (and therefore > 'experts') and was a little reluctant to post at 1st. I believe that > this list and the knowledge and expertise of the individuals that are > subscribed are the single biggest Boone to my building experience. I'd > hate to see it wither up and die. > Perhaps there are some that get offended by some of the stronger > personalities, I hope not, I figure if I can withstand Rick Sked > poking fun at my spelling, that anyone can survive on the list. :-P > I get some inquiries from people 'off-list' which I'm happy to reply > to, but I learn as much from others exchanges as from my own > inquiries, I'd encourage folks to use the list and the experience for > the widest benefit (Let's burn some of Matt's bandwidth!) > > Now if I can just get the maze of wire behind my panel > untangled.......should have used Stein! > > Deems Davis # 406 > 'Its all done....Its just not put together' > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2007
From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com>
Subject: ES Airflow fuel pump questions
I finally received my fuel pump and made the following observations... 1. I had to tweak the bending of the curvy fuel line, because it was routing directly over the fuel filter. In its initial configuration, it would have made removing the fuel filter extremely difficult, as the fuel line would have been directly in the way. I'm assuming this should be a regular maintenance item, to remove the filter and clean it. The product sheet mentioned doing this after the first 5 to 10 hours after initial flight. This is a picture of someone else's tunnel. forgot to take a picture of mine before modifying it: http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/airframe/fuselage/sec37/photos/P1000920.html This is a picture directly from Van's catalog: http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/catalog/cat-med_fi-install.jpg 2. As a consequence of #1 above, i removed the AN fitting off of the fuel pump at the end of the curvy line. I was surprised to find the AN fitting's threads to be dry - ie, no fuel lube or paste of any kind. Should we be double checking these fittings on the fuel pump AN fittings? Granted, there are only 2 (each end of curvy line) that i would be concerned with. The other fittings all have some kind of white paste around their threads. Anyway, curious what others experience is in this area. Is it just me or did anyone else assume this pre-made part is good to go - receive in the mail and install. Or am i being too naive on such a critical part? Jae #40533 Fuse section 29 thru 38 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: What's required for IFR operation of an Experimental A/C?
From: "Bill Reining" <wreining(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2007
I had a discussion tonight after our monthly EAA chapter meeting with another builder about glass panels and backup steam gauges. He had heard that the major reason folks put in backup steam gauges (e.g. analog airspeed, altimeter and horizon) is: they are a relatively inexpensive way to obtain some TSO'd instruments. Why TSO? Because they have demonstrated compliance to various specs necessary for IFR qualification. On the other hand, the various glass EFIS are not certified, thus have no credentials to prove they can meet IFR specs. It's not that they have to be certified, just that one has to be able to show that certain important instruments meet IFR requirements (whatever that might be... accuracy? stability?) Well anyway, does any of this make sense? Perhaps a better question: are there really any requirements that must be met before an Experimental category aircraft can fly IFR? -------- Bill (and Jon) Reining 40514 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130414#130414 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go?
Neil, you need to show everyone a picture of your paint job. I think it will ad 30 kts to your top end ! Deems neil wrote: > > Busy busy busy finishing off as well. All painted at last. > > BUT > > DEFINITELY should have got Stein to do the panel - never again! I'm > sure I got ET on the RT, and the BBC on my EFIS. > > DAR next Tuesday! Then we'll know how much we've got to redo like a dodo. > > Neil > > ZK - RVT > On 23 Aug 2007, at 14:19, Deems Davis wrote: > >> >> Many people have noticed and commented about the decrease in traffic >> on this list. I suppose some of it's due to folks squeezing in the >> last bit of summer vacation, but with over 750 RV-10 builder/fliers >> the amount of traffic has decreased inversely proportional to the >> increase in builder numbers ?????? Whats up with that? I'd be >> interested in understanding what's behind the decrease. >> Matt are the number of subscribers decreasing or has the bulk of the >> population moved to the lurker category? >> I know that when I began my build I was a bit intimidated by those >> 'experts' that were much further along than I (and therefore >> 'experts') and was a little reluctant to post at 1st. I believe that >> this list and the knowledge and expertise of the individuals that are >> subscribed are the single biggest Boone to my building experience. >> I'd hate to see it wither up and die. >> Perhaps there are some that get offended by some of the stronger >> personalities, I hope not, I figure if I can withstand Rick Sked >> poking fun at my spelling, that anyone can survive on the list. :-P >> I get some inquiries from people 'off-list' which I'm happy to reply >> to, but I learn as much from others exchanges as from my own >> inquiries, I'd encourage folks to use the list and the experience for >> the widest benefit (Let's burn some of Matt's bandwidth!) >> >> Now if I can just get the maze of wire behind my panel >> untangled.......should have used Stein! >> >> Deems Davis # 406 >> 'Its all done....Its just not put together' >> http://deemsrv10.com/ >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Leffler" <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: OP Tech Acquisition
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Deems, Gary, et al, So is the acquisition of Op Technologies by Aerosonics good or bad? Or is it too early to tell? Just curious........... I would use Stein for my panel too, but since I'm still stuck on elevators at the moment, it's a ways off. bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go?
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com>
Deems, et. al. I've stopped building for awhile, so I, for one, have not much to say that I feel can contribute. Plus, what there is about which I can confidently express an opinion is rather small, since I've not gotten past chapter 12. I became very aware of opinions on this list that were being put out there with authority and knowledge that just had to make you wonder, and it made me stop and think if I truly had the requisite knowledge to make "helpful" suggestions from a wealth of past experience and training. That's a cop-out to some extent, of course. We're all learning together. But for me, to make a pronouncement, I need to ensure that I am well researched enough and thoughtful in the reply that those reading it who have even less knowledge are not led astray. That means taking the time to research the topic (the EFIS posts are one example of a very complex discussion), careful in how one writes about it, and who's got that degree of time, all the time? Sometimes you just have to go for a hike and get out of the shop. Another reason, I think, is that the number of excellent websites is to such a point that most of the questions and answers can be found in them, and then their's Tim's compendium. Web sites are also an interesting phenomenon. There were a couple times when people actually cited what I did, described and pictured on my web site as the way to do x, y or z. It was complimentary that anyone was even logging on, but it sure made me think about the responsibility people have who are taking the time to document and publish their progress. All of this takes time, this conversation stuff on the web, and life's just too busy and precious for some. Why not read the manual, look at the web sites you think are informative, build the thing, have Stein or others do your panel for you, have Marty do the engine, get your EAA chapter fellows who've been there before to help you install it...in short, get it flying and then one day, viola, you announce on the site that you're done, and no one has ever heard of you before. I personally think that's sad. But, I'm in it for the "education" and camaraderie, so I continue to read the emails religiously, just haven't much to say. John Jessen 328 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 9:20 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go? Many people have noticed and commented about the decrease in traffic on this list. I suppose some of it's due to folks squeezing in the last bit of summer vacation, but with over 750 RV-10 builder/fliers the amount of traffic has decreased inversely proportional to the increase in builder numbers ?????? Whats up with that? I'd be interested in understanding what's behind the decrease. Matt are the number of subscribers decreasing or has the bulk of the population moved to the lurker category? I know that when I began my build I was a bit intimidated by those 'experts' that were much further along than I (and therefore 'experts') and was a little reluctant to post at 1st. I believe that this list and the knowledge and expertise of the individuals that are subscribed are the single biggest Boone to my building experience. I'd hate to see it wither up and die. Perhaps there are some that get offended by some of the stronger personalities, I hope not, I figure if I can withstand Rick Sked poking fun at my spelling, that anyone can survive on the list. :-P I get some inquiries from people 'off-list' which I'm happy to reply to, but I learn as much from others exchanges as from my own inquiries, I'd encourage folks to use the list and the experience for the widest benefit (Let's burn some of Matt's bandwidth!) Now if I can just get the maze of wire behind my panel untangled.......should have used Stein! Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com>
Subject: OP Tech Acquisition
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Hmmm... I'm hoping "good" since I ordered mine 5 weeks ago. But I don't know enough about the deal or Aerosonics to say. When did this occur? Best Regards, Patrick Oneill #40715 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:59 AM Subject: RV10-List: OP Tech Acquisition Deems, Gary, et al, So is the acquisition of Op Technologies by Aerosonics good or bad? Or is it too early to tell? Just curious........... I would use Stein for my panel too, but since I'm still stuck on elevators at the moment, it's a ways off. bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Edgerton" <wayne.e(at)grandecom.net>
Subject: Re: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go?
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Hell I thought everyone made there 10's a trail dragger not just me :>} I'll add a little bit to the mix to help fill up Matt's band width. I'm now official, I have flown off my 40 hours. I thought once you got into the cockpit that you were done but boy you find, or at least I have, a whole lot of other issues have to be dealt with. Maybe others didn't run into some of the things I did, but I'll list a few of them. I purchased my engine from Aero in Canada. They are really great people to work with and after talking to quite a few builders I find out they have a much better warranty policy than some. As an example, Mattituck engines warranty starts I believe when you receive the engine. I know of two RV builders who aren't finished yet and there warranty has or is about to expire because of time. On my Aero engine the warranty didn't start until my first flight. Also I bought a new engine from them, one that they built up from certified parts, and I have 3 years warranty. The warranty when you buy a new Lycoming certified engine, per what I've been told, is only 2 years. Anyway to my point on debugging problems. On my first flight my left magneto decided to go to magneto heaven. So I was down for awhile awaiting a new mag from Aero. They shipped it right out but I had to get it installed and timed. I forgot to say that I have Lasar electronic ignition. We timed up the system, actually I use we loosely since I'm not very experienced with this type of thing and had to recruit help. Ron Grover and Danny King helped me. Anyway I've been chasing now a 200 mag drop on run-up and trying to figure out what the problem is. It's a uniform mag drop between the mags. If I lean out the mixture on run-up the mag drop goes to the normal tolerance. First someone suggested leaning out the idle mixture, which really has no effect on the mixture at 1700 rpm. No cigar. Then someone said I should switch to fine wire plugs and that would solve the problem but after nearly $800 still no cigar. The thought then was that the fuel servo was not calibrated correctly so Aero sent me a new one, which I then installed. No cigar again. I tested in the air while running at 23 sq turning just to one magneto and then the other magneto. I had little or no mag drop. Anyway after all of that I'm still chasing this issue. I keep coming back to when we timed it, but we did it twice, per their instructions. So that's one of my issues. Not to bore you too much but I'll give you another just to help Matt out :>} I have dual Chelton's installed with the Free Flight 1201 certified WAAS GPS receiver to drive them. From the beginning I wasn't able to get into what Chelton calls Ground Maintenance Mode (GMM). You have to insert a Smart Card and then power up the unit and it boots up in a mode that allows you to go in and configure the units to match your configurations and parameters, i.e. equipment, speeds etc. We chased that for quite awhile thinking somehow I had bad Smartcards or I was a dummy putting them in wrong, that maybe was a good guess :>} but anyway it was concluded that somehow the database for the units was corrupted and wouldn't allow me to go into GMM. I worked with a couple fellows at Chelton, Mike and Robert, on this, they are really a couple of good guys and very patient and knowledgeable, and they e-mailed me a new set of software and by using DOS commands with a keyboard attached to the Chelton, we were able to load this software into the units and the units would now come up in GMM. OK so far but new problem, now I had no GPS into the units from the Free Flight GPS. I flew my next four flights using a sectional and following VOR radials, I have some steam gauges also. I guess I needed the practice anyway. Well it was finally determined, after I talked to Stein on a Sunday morning, that they have two version of their software a regular version -2 and one for people who have a Free Flight GPS, like me -8. You guessed it, they had mistakenly sent me the wrong one. I loaded that version and am now back in the GPS business. I now have to upgrade to the latest version, which is 6.0A16-8 where the 8 means for the Free Flight. Anyway you get the point that you are, or at least I have been, presented with a whole new set of issues you have to deal with, however I have to say that being flying they aren't quite as frustrating as when I was in total build mode wanting to be flying. I'm in TX and I have a hangar on an airpark just north of Fort Worth, Propwash Airpark. If any of you other 10 builders are coming to the area and would like to have a ride let me know. I'm going into paint on Sept 6th so I'm probably out of business for Sept. OK Matt is that enough now :>} Wayne Edgerton #40336 N602WT flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: OP Tech Acquisition
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Too early to tell yet. I go down to Stein this afternoon to do an operations check on the nav and com equipment. I guess we will see if we are orphans or the beginning of something capable of competing with Garmin et al. Gary 40274 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:59 AM Subject: RV10-List: OP Tech Acquisition Deems, Gary, et al, So is the acquisition of Op Technologies by Aerosonics good or bad? Or is it too early to tell? Just curious........... I would use Stein for my panel too, but since I'm still stuck on elevators at the moment, it's a ways off. bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: OP Tech Acquisition
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: John Jessen <n212pj(at)gmail.com>
Taking a look at their website leaves one wondering if they are a big player at all. Maybe for the military? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:25 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: OP Tech Acquisition Too early to tell yet. I go down to Stein this afternoon to do an operations check on the nav and com equipment. I guess we will see if we are orphans or the beginning of something capable of competing with Garmin et al. Gary 40274 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:59 AM Subject: RV10-List: OP Tech Acquisition Deems, Gary, et al, So is the acquisition of Op Technologies by Aerosonics good or bad? Or is it too early to tell? Just curious........... I would use Stein for my panel too, but since I'm still stuck on elevators at the moment, it's a ways off. bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go?
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
I will be taking all kinds of pictures tomorrow, once we get it fitted up, and I finally get to install my $500 worth of Mil-Spec fasteners, they have been sitting on the bench just begging to be put in. Oh and I get to fly two additional RV10 Subaru builders, you guys better watch out because we are multiplying! Dan N289DT RV10E Flying "Counting the days to my "free" Ice Cream Sundae in Arizona!" -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 10:24 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go? Lloyd tell us more about your CF cowl!?!?! Inquiring minds want to know! (maybe I'll be tempted by yet another time exhausting mod!) Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote: > > Maybe we should talk about alternative engines? GRIN. Going down to > Florida tomorrow to mount my new carbon fiber cowl. Should loose a > couple more pounds, just where I don't need to! > Dan > N289DT RV10E > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 9:47 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd > Everyone Go? > > > I was wondering too what had happened. Where is everyone, building? > > Gary > 40274 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:37 PM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone > Go? > > > Um, what kind of primer should I use? > > Why doesn't the RV-10 come in a tailwheel model so the real men would be > able to fly them? > > :-) > :-) > > That should get some discussions going again! > > Matt > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: What's required for IFR operation of an Experimental A/C?
Date: Aug 23, 2007
My understanding, after much debate and analysis, is that TSO'd or otherwise "approved" instruments are not required for IFR flight in amatuer built aircraft. The popular experimental EFIS systems can be used legally without gyro/pitot/static backups. Whether that's a good idea or not is another question. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Reining Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 12:44 AM Subject: RV10-List: What's required for IFR operation of an Experimental A/C? I had a discussion tonight after our monthly EAA chapter meeting with another builder about glass panels and backup steam gauges. He had heard that the major reason folks put in backup steam gauges (e.g. analog airspeed, altimeter and horizon) is: they are a relatively inexpensive way to obtain some TSO'd instruments. Why TSO? Because they have demonstrated compliance to various specs necessary for IFR qualification. On the other hand, the various glass EFIS are not certified, thus have no credentials to prove they can meet IFR specs. It's not that they have to be certified, just that one has to be able to show that certain important instruments meet IFR requirements (whatever that might be... accuracy? stability?) Well anyway, does any of this make sense? Perhaps a better question: are there really any requirements that must be met before an Experimental category aircraft can fly IFR? -------- Bill (and Jon) Reining 40514 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130414#130414 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: What's required for IFR operation of an Experimental A/C?
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
There is a good article several years ago in Sport Aviation about what is and is not required for IFR in Experimentals, I will look for it tonight and send it to you. Dan N289DT RV10E Flying -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Reining Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:44 AM Subject: RV10-List: What's required for IFR operation of an Experimental A/C? I had a discussion tonight after our monthly EAA chapter meeting with another builder about glass panels and backup steam gauges. He had heard that the major reason folks put in backup steam gauges (e.g. analog airspeed, altimeter and horizon) is: they are a relatively inexpensive way to obtain some TSO'd instruments. Why TSO? Because they have demonstrated compliance to various specs necessary for IFR qualification. On the other hand, the various glass EFIS are not certified, thus have no credentials to prove they can meet IFR specs. It's not that they have to be certified, just that one has to be able to show that certain important instruments meet IFR requirements (whatever that might be... accuracy? stability?) Well anyway, does any of this make sense? Perhaps a better question: are there really any requirements that must be met before an Experimental category aircraft can fly IFR? -------- Bill (and Jon) Reining 40514 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130414#130414 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <rvmail(at)thelefflers.com>
Subject: Re: OP Tech Acquisition
Date: Aug 23, 2007
CLEARWATER, Fla. -- August 22, 2007 -- Aerosonic Corporation (AMEX:AIM), a leading supplier of precision flight products for commercial, business and military aircraft, announced today that the Company has purchased 100% of the outstanding stock of Op Technologies, Inc. ("Op"), an Oregon-based developer and manufacturer of cockpit glass display solutions. Op currently produces a series of cockpit display solutions for experimental general aviation, including the Pegasus Integrated Avionics System. Op has also been developing similar products for FAA-certified aircraft. "The addition of Op Technologies' expertise and products to our company will allow us to compete on a larger scale across a wider number of aircraft models, and this transaction creates a path for meaningful revenue growth and reduces our cost and time to market for a family of products that addresses a significant component of our strategic plan," stated David Baldini, Aerosonic's Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer. "We believe that this transaction will establish a new platform for future growth and will allow us to better serve our present and future customers." Aerosonic Corporation, headquartered in Clearwater, Florida, is principally engaged in the manufacture of aviation products. Locations of the Company include Clearwater, Florida and Earlysville, Virginia. For additional information, visit the Companys website at www.aerosonic.com. This document contains statements that constitute "forward-looking" statements within the meaning of the Securities Act of 1933 and the Securities Act of 1934, as amended by the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. "Forward-looking" statements contained in this document include the intent, belief or current expectations of the Company and its senior management team with respect to future actions by officers and directors of the Company, prospects of the Company's operations, profits from future operations, overall future business prospects and long term stockholder value, as well as the assumptions upon which such statements are based. Investors are cautioned that any such forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future performance, and that actual results may differ materially from those contemplated by such forward-looking statements. Important factors currently known to management that could cause actual results to differ materially from those contemplated by the forward-looking statements in this document include, but are not limited to, adverse developments with respect to the resolution of current stockholder litigation, adverse developments involving operations of the Company's business units, failure to meet operating objectives or to execute the business plan, and the failure to reach revenue or profit projections. The Company undertakes no obligation to update or revise the forward-looking statements contained in this document to reflect changed assumptions, the occurrence of unanticipated events, or changes to future operating results over time. > > From: "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> > Date: 2007/08/23 Thu AM 07:09:23 EST > To: > Subject: RE: RV10-List: OP Tech Acquisition > > > Hmmm... I'm hoping "good" since I ordered mine 5 weeks ago. But I don't > know enough about the deal or Aerosonics to say. When did this occur? > > Best Regards, > Patrick Oneill > #40715 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:59 AM > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: OP Tech Acquisition > > > > Deems, Gary, et al, > > So is the acquisition of Op Technologies by Aerosonics good or bad? Or is > it too early to tell? Just curious........... > > I would use Stein for my panel too, but since I'm still stuck on elevators > at the moment, it's a ways off. > > bob > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: OP Tech Acquisition
I don't know, My guess is that they want to continue to support the EXP market as thats the ONLY source for revenue for OP at the moment. As all mergers/acquisitions go ultimately it depends on how its managed. Op was growing and expanding at the time. (their prices were increasing as well!).There major focus this past year has been certification of their 10 inch product for the Cirus retro fit market. Its got all of the function that the G1000 has (minus the same functions that we have in the EXP product, syn vis, HITS, etc). Some of the things they are putting in the certified product have found their way into the EXP product recently (XM weather, e.g) and talking to Darren, they have a list of others they want to move as well. Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ Now if only I could find an 'affordable' FLIR camera........... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Subject: Re: What's required for IFR operation of an Experimental A/C?
From: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net>
Bill Reining wrote: > specs. It's not that they have to be certified, just that one has to be able to show that certain important instruments meet IFR requirements (whatever that might be... accuracy? stability?) Well anyway, does any of this make sense? Perhaps a better question: are there really any requirements that must be met before an Experimental category aircraft can fly IFR? > > Hi Bill, Here is my rambling on the topic if you are interested: <http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/tso.html> -Dj -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/ "Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone
Go? At 07:19 PM 8/22/2007 Wednesday, you wrote: >Matt are the number of subscribers decreasing or has the bulk of the population moved to the lurker category? RV10-List subscriptions continue to grow daily. I think everyone was just busy working on their projects. Matt Dralle List Admin Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Door ajar indicators installation documentation
I have the parts that van's sent which monitor the closing of the doors. However for the life of me, I can't locate any instructions/drawings to accompany the installation. I checked Van's website, and nothing there, Anybody have a copy they could scan and e-mail to me? Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone Go?
Great post Wayne and some good insight on what kind of things to expect during Phase 1. Thanks . Can't wait to see painted pics! Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ Wayne Edgerton wrote: > Hell I thought everyone made there 10's a trail dragger not just me :>} > > I'll add a little bit to the mix to help fill up Matt's band width. > I'm now official, I have flown off my 40 hours. I thought once you got > into the cockpit that you were done but boy you find, or at least I > have, a whole lot of other issues have to be dealt with. Maybe others > didn't run into some of the things I did, but I'll list a few of them. > > I purchased my engine from Aero in Canada. They are really great > people to work with and after talking to quite a few builders I find > out they have a much better warranty policy than some. As an example, > Mattituck engines warranty starts I believe when you receive the > engine. I know of two RV builders who aren't finished yet and there > warranty has or is about to expire because of time. On my Aero engine > the warranty didn't start until my first flight. Also I bought a new > engine from them, one that they built up from certified parts, and I > have 3 years warranty. The warranty when you buy a new Lycoming > certified engine, per what I've been told, is only 2 years. > > Anyway to my point on debugging problems. On my first flight my left > magneto decided to go to magneto heaven. So I was down for awhile > awaiting a new mag from Aero. They shipped it right out but I had to > get it installed and timed. I forgot to say that I have Lasar > electronic ignition. We timed up the system, actually I use we loosely > since I'm not very experienced with this type of thing and had to > recruit help. Ron Grover and Danny King helped me. Anyway I've been > chasing now a 200 mag drop on run-up and trying to figure out what the > problem is. It's a uniform mag drop between the mags. If I lean out > the mixture on run-up the mag drop goes to the normal tolerance. > > First someone suggested leaning out the idle mixture, which really has > no effect on the mixture at 1700 rpm. No cigar. Then someone said I > should switch to fine wire plugs and that would solve the problem but > after nearly $800 still no cigar. The thought then was that the fuel > servo was not calibrated correctly so Aero sent me a new one, which I > then installed. No cigar again. I tested in the air while running at > 23 sq turning just to one magneto and then the other magneto. I had > little or no mag drop. Anyway after all of that I'm still chasing this > issue. I keep coming back to when we timed it, but we did it twice, > per their instructions. So that's one of my issues. > > Not to bore you too much but I'll give you another just to help Matt > out :>} I have dual Chelton's installed with the Free Flight 1201 > certified WAAS GPS receiver to drive them. From the beginning I wasn't > able to get into what Chelton calls Ground Maintenance Mode (GMM). You > have to insert a Smart Card and then power up the unit and it boots up > in a mode that allows you to go in and configure the units to match > your configurations and parameters, i.e. equipment, speeds etc. We > chased that for quite awhile thinking somehow I had bad Smartcards or > I was a dummy putting them in wrong, that maybe was a good guess :>} > but anyway it was concluded that somehow the database for the units > was corrupted and wouldn't allow me to go into GMM. I worked with a > couple fellows at Chelton, Mike and Robert, on this, they are really a > couple of good guys and very patient and knowledgeable, and they > e-mailed me a new set of software and by using DOS commands with a > keyboard attached to the Chelton, we were able to load this software > into the units and the units would now come up in GMM. OK so far but > new problem, now I had no GPS into the units from the Free Flight GPS. > > I flew my next four flights using a sectional and following VOR > radials, I have some steam gauges also. I guess I needed the practice > anyway. Well it was finally determined, after I talked to Stein on a > Sunday morning, that they have two version of their software a regular > version -2 and one for people who have a Free Flight GPS, like me -8. > You guessed it, they had mistakenly sent me the wrong one. I loaded > that version and am now back in the GPS business. I now have to > upgrade to the latest version, which is 6.0A16-8 where the 8 means for > the Free Flight. > > Anyway you get the point that you are, or at least I have > been, presented with a whole new set of issues you have to deal with, > however I have to say that being flying they aren't quite as > frustrating as when I was in total build mode wanting to be flying. > > I'm in TX and I have a hangar on an airpark just north of Fort Worth, > Propwash Airpark. If any of you other 10 builders are coming to the > area and would like to have a ride let me know. I'm going into paint > on Sept 6th so I'm probably out of business for Sept. > > OK Matt is that enough now :>} > > > Wayne Edgerton #40336 > N602WT flying > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Testing 1 2 3 - Is This Thing On? Where'd Everyone
Go?
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>
I believe the combination of matched hole metal, many second (and third) offenders, the other RV lists and the archives are a big reason there is not as much action on the -10 list as one would suspect. Additionally I agree that the EXCELLENT websites we all know and love so much contribute to answering questions we didn't even know we needed answers to till we read them online. For our build we wear wrist bands that read "WWDD?" What Would Deems Do? As we have the exact same engine & cowl configuration (plus door handles, overhead console ....) having Deems build, photograph and discuss his project has made our build INFINATELY easier. Finally I am sure that "strong personalities" and fear of "experts" is not the reason for a quiet list as this is one great group of mild mannered builders. Maybe it has something to do with the two additional seats. Robin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: What's required for IFR operation of an Experimental A/C?
Boy, is this opening up a can of worms ! I've seen the other responses to this inquiry, I think I've read most everything I can find on this subject, as in most things the devil is in the details. E.g. What do you need to have to be legal to fly IFR WAAS approaches in an EXP aircraft? Do you need a TSO'd WAAS GPS? (I'm under the impression that you do, as opposed to a WAAS 'enabled/capable GPS'). If the WAAS GPS is a sensor (Freeflight) and not a Garmin 430/480/480 and is attached/integrated with an EXP EFIS system, does the EFIS system need to be able to supply the RAIM error notification for the WAAS GPS ? (I dont' believe any of the EXP EFIS systems currently do this) . ?????? Pat Thyssen, you got your ears on???? I've put 3 calls into my FSDO and left 3 messages on this topic and haven't got a call back. I spoke with one builder who indicated he was told by his FSDO that they are individually approving ea EXP IFR aircraft !!! Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ Bill Reining wrote: > > I had a discussion tonight after our monthly EAA chapter meeting with another builder about glass panels and backup steam gauges. He had heard that the major reason folks put in backup steam gauges (e.g. analog airspeed, altimeter and horizon) is: they are a relatively inexpensive way to obtain some TSO'd instruments. Why TSO? Because they have demonstrated compliance to various specs necessary for IFR qualification. On the other hand, the various glass EFIS are not certified, thus have no credentials to prove they can meet IFR specs. It's not that they have to be certified, just that one has to be able to show that certain important instruments meet IFR requirements (whatever that might be... accuracy? stability?) Well anyway, does any of this make sense? Perhaps a better question: are there really any requirements that must be met before an Experimental category aircraft can fly IFR? > > -------- > Bill (and Jon) Reining > 40514 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130414#130414 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vernon Smith <planesmith(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Corrosion in aluminum torque tube
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Hi All, With talk about blue plastic/corrosion and the cry to fill up bandwidth, th ough I would pass this along. Last night as I was cutting the large diameter aluminum torque tube for the control pushrods I found very light corrosion in one of them. Any place else, I probably would have treated it and primed, but inside a c losed, critical component called for replacement of the tube in my mind. Called Van's and they will replace it without question. They are great to w ork with! As a suggestion to others, it would be good to inspect the inside of the tu bes for corrosion during construction of these parts before priming. I maybe the only luck one but the thought of push rods corroding for the in side out over time is just scary. Vern Smith (#324 control systems) _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Caf=E9 =97 open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served d aily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_AugWLtagline ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Tire Wear / Brakes
As with all RV's my tires were starting to get pretty worn on the outside e dge. I went to the hanger a couple of nights ago and rotated my tires and s ince I had the wheels off I decided to also switch out my brake pads and re pack the bearings. =0A=0AI currently have 230 hours on my RV-10. Not sure h ow many landings but I would guess it would be somewhere in the 200 range. =0A=0AAfter looking at the brakes and tire wear, I would recommend all RV-1 0 owners to rotate tires and change out their brakes around 180 - 220 hours depending on how many landings they do. I typically do not do alot of touc h and goes and when I do land, I let the plane slow as much as possible and use most of the runway just to save the brakes a little. =0A=0AHere are a couple of pictures of the tires. You can see how they really wear on the ou tside. The air wasn't showing yet! I pulled the wheels apart, flipped the t ire around, repacked the bearings and reassembled. It was pretty quick to d o. I should be able to get another 150 - 200 hours out of these tires. My a nnual is coming up in October and I will check the wear on the tires then. =0A=0AMy brakes appeared to be about 50% worn. To do the brakes you need to have the special brake rivet tool. The two pads of the right are the old o nes off the right side compared to a new one. New pads are $33 from Van's. Whatta deal =0Ahttp://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t 784=0A=0A=0AScott Schmidt=0Ascottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com

RV10-Archive.digest.vol-cm

RV10-Archive.digest.vol-cm