Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-fe
November 09, 2005 - November 29, 2005
> Kitfox
> bankruptcy and its ramifications for Advanced owners got me
> thinking. Along
> with the other restrictions, is Advanced really the way to go? And
> are the
> advantages of being a Homebuilt worth having to peel my wings and
> surfaces
> for inspections? Can I switch at all?
>
> Anybody have any advice?
>
> ******************************************************
> Tony Bonsell (tbonsell(at)luxuria.com) CI-FKF
> Luxuria + Apparatus Design Communications
> 535 Cragg Road, RR #3
> Uxbridge, Ontario L9P 1R3
> Voice: 905.852.3848
> http://www.luxuria.com
>
> ******************************************************
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Zed Smith <zsmith3rd(at)earthlink.net> |
Happy Birthday, Thursday, 10 November 2005, to those on the List who know why.
Semper Fi !!
Zed/1920114USMC (1960-1964)/701/R912/90+% and working
archive the heck out of it!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Bowling <bowlingaviation(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender CH701 |
Is there enough upper gravity feed to just connect the outer tank to the inner?
I just got off of the phone with Nick H. at Zenith. I am ready to
install my fuel tanks. I purchased the long range option, so I have
4 tanks. The instructions have the fuel sender for the main tanks
installed on the inboard side of the main tanks and the auxiliary
tanks have their senders mounted on the top of the tank. I asked
Nick if I can just mount the sender on the side of the outboard (aux)
tank just like the main. The short of it is that he said I can mount
the fuel level sender anywhere I like. But he said that the sender
on the aux tanks are optional, I don't need to have them at
all. This does have some appeal as it simplifies the installation.
He suggested that if I don't have a fuel gauge for the aux tanks,
that I take off on the mains, then switch to the aux tanks to use
whatever fuel I had planned (using time to determine gallons), then
switch back to the mains.
Is anyone using the aux tanks with no fuel senders and is it working
OK for you?
-- Another topic
I asked Nick about inspection plates. I want to be able to change
the fuel lines and senders without skinning the wing. I asked if the
plates needed to be considered a structural part of the wing. He
said "yes they need to be considered a part of the structure". He
went on to say that they needed to use nut plates and have enough
screws so that it was just as strong as the original, uncut, skin
(40mm spacing). I asked specifically about the use of plastic covers
(mentioned on this list before), and I was told that they are for
fabric planes with internal structure, not for metal planes where the
strength of the plane is dependent on the skin.
Doug Kandle
CH701
Boise ID
Rudder & Horiz. Stab. done Working on Wings
From complete kit
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Ports for 701 |
in my 701, no static port, only pitot tube.
about 3 to 5 mph diference from GPS indicated in calm wind condition. average
in 4 directions. Cruise 5,100 rpm 6,500 ft ASL. Indicated speed 93 mph.
Will do some tests at diferent speeds in a couple of weeks. This week end is family
time...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Guadalajara, Mexico.
701 912S
ray.stlaurent(at)vsea.com wrote:
4
Hello fortunate flyers,
After searching the archives I am still unclear. Is there a position for
the static ports on a 701 that has been shown to be ?accurate?, or at
least stable, especially at slow speeds? I have seen some references to
using A5 rivets with their stems removed. Does that work or should I use
store-bought ports?
Thanks
-- Ray
701, pegastol wings
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Jeffries <vair601(at)Yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Paint removal, aircraft stripper |
Hello Listers,
I have a 1974 Grumman Traveler that I'm restoring. I have found that modern day
aircraft strippers have been weakened due to EPA requirements and they have
not been very effective in removing the 30 year old paint. I haven't worked as
an A&P for ten years now but I am starting to get back into the business. If
there are any better ideas out there I'd sure like to here about them. I realize
that this is off subject a bit as many of you a planing to shoot paint not
strip it at this time. I do feel however that this could still be as useful
discussion none the less.
Thank you in advance, Bill Jeffries.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NYTerminat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Photo Assembly Guide Print |
I've just printed them out on my home computer. I refill the ink cartridge in
my printer so it wasn't that bad. Just took time.
I also have an old computer in my shop but still found that the printed pages
are much more useful and you have the ability to make notes on the paper.
Bob Spudis
CH-701/912S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint removal, aircraft stripper |
Bill:
The gel-type stripper you can get at Wal-Mart works good on just about any paint.
Just brush it on, wait a few minutes and clean up the huge mess (don't use
the spray-bottle). Nothing but shiny metal when you are done. It cleans up
with water. Wear gloves and be ready for a big mess.
Good luck,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
William Jeffries wrote:
Hello Listers,
I have a 1974 Grumman Traveler that I'm restoring. I have found that modern day
aircraft strippers have been weakened due to EPA requirements and they have not
been very effective in removing the 30 year old paint. I haven't worked as
an A&P for ten years now but I am starting to get back into the business. If there
are any better ideas out there I'd sure like to here about them. I realize
that this is off subject a bit as many of you a planing to shoot paint not strip
it at this time. I do feel however that this could still be as useful discussion
none the less.
Thank you in advance, Bill Jeffries.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint removal, aircraft stripper |
> I helped strip a Cessna Cardinal. We used an auto
> motive stripper and used insulation dipped in
> thinner to wash it off and then threw it away, since
> it has dried off and can be thrown away in the trash
> EPA says its ok. Bob Sceppa
--- William Jeffries wrote:
>
>
> Hello Listers,
>
> I have a 1974 Grumman Traveler that I'm restoring.
> I have found that modern day aircraft strippers have
> been weakened due to EPA requirements and they have
> not been very effective in removing the 30 year old
> paint. I haven't worked as an A&P for ten years now
> but I am starting to get back into the business. If
> there are any better ideas out there I'd sure like
> to here about them. I realize that this is off
> subject a bit as many of you a planing to shoot
> paint not strip it at this time. I do feel however
> that this could still be as useful discussion none
> the less.
>
> Thank you in advance, Bill Jeffries.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://farechase.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry" <lrm01(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender CH701 |
I am having to pull all my tanks. Even though the PegaStol wings have a
total of 24 inspection plates, none of them let you view fuel line
connections at the tanks. A major oversight in my opinion. I will install
additional ones before I put new tanks in. I will build my own on top of
the wings on each side of the tanks so they can be removed and I can look
directly at and get to the fittings.
Nick is right about the structure issue. However, you can buy round
inspection plates with re-enforcement rings from Aircraft Spruce for a
little more than $3.50 each. That is what PegaStol uses for it's 24
inspection plates.
Larry, N1345L, www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Bowling" <bowlingaviation(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender CH701
>
> Is there enough upper gravity feed to just connect the outer tank to the
> inner?
>
> doug kandle wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted
> by: doug kandle
>
> I just got off of the phone with Nick H. at Zenith. I am ready to
> install my fuel tanks. I purchased the long range option, so I have
> 4 tanks. The instructions have the fuel sender for the main tanks
> installed on the inboard side of the main tanks and the auxiliary
> tanks have their senders mounted on the top of the tank. I asked
> Nick if I can just mount the sender on the side of the outboard (aux)
> tank just like the main. The short of it is that he said I can mount
> the fuel level sender anywhere I like. But he said that the sender
> on the aux tanks are optional, I don't need to have them at
> all. This does have some appeal as it simplifies the installation.
>
> He suggested that if I don't have a fuel gauge for the aux tanks,
> that I take off on the mains, then switch to the aux tanks to use
> whatever fuel I had planned (using time to determine gallons), then
> switch back to the mains.
>
> Is anyone using the aux tanks with no fuel senders and is it working
> OK for you?
>
> -- Another topic
> I asked Nick about inspection plates. I want to be able to change
> the fuel lines and senders without skinning the wing. I asked if the
> plates needed to be considered a structural part of the wing. He
> said "yes they need to be considered a part of the structure". He
> went on to say that they needed to use nut plates and have enough
> screws so that it was just as strong as the original, uncut, skin
> (40mm spacing). I asked specifically about the use of plastic covers
> (mentioned on this list before), and I was told that they are for
> fabric planes with internal structure, not for metal planes where the
> strength of the plane is dependent on the skin.
>
>
> Doug Kandle
> CH701
> Boise ID
> Rudder & Horiz. Stab. done Working on Wings
> From complete kit
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Safety / Wives??? |
Larry, great your back, on your TP we have a fellow in the chapter who is
presently restoring two TPs. Fact is, this weekend he got the brown one running.
Seems to be real smart fellow on the TP. His name is Harold Spivey, and an
all round fine fellow. His hanger is at Thomaston as well. If you come down I'll
call him and perhaps you can talk with him concerning you mill problem. Oh,
pleasant and relaxing Veteran's Day to us ! Best regards, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Static Ports for 701 |
| From: | ray.stlaurent(at)vsea.com |
Hi Gary,
Belated thanks for your response. Have you noticed much difference between
vents open or closed? I will also have a heater fan --- more needed at my
latitude.
Thanks
-- Ray
New Brunswick, Canada
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Static Ports for 701
in my 701, no static port, only pitot tube.
about 3 to 5 mph diference from GPS indicated in calm wind condition.
average
in 4 directions. Cruise 5,100 rpm 6,500 ft ASL. Indicated speed 93
mph.
Will do some tests at diferent speeds in a couple of weeks. This week end
is family
time...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Guadalajara, Mexico.
701 912S
ray.stlaurent(at)vsea.com wrote:
Hello fortunate flyers,
After searching the archives I am still unclear. Is there a position for
the static ports on a 701 that has been shown to be ?accurate?, or at
least stable, especially at slow speeds? I have seen some references to
using A5 rivets with their stems removed. Does that work or should I use
store-bought ports?
Thanks
-- Ray
701, pegastol wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Briggerman" <blb7037(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Photo Assembly Guide Print |
Dave:
I printed mine in black and white and when I need clarification, I go to the computer
to get them in color. You can zoom in to get a closer look till the clarity
goes away. I printed the March 31st updates for the 601 in black and white
and then they reissued them on August 18th. So if I had printed them in color
I would have had a lot larger expense than I had because I wanted the updates.
Brian Briggerman
601XL
Arizona
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
Your very welcome, Best regards, Bill of Georgia 505WP 601XL-3300w/DC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john butterfield <jdbutterfield(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 11/09/05 |
hi list
Semper fi on our birthday.
as to the photo guide, i print several sections at a
time on my hp office jet and put them in a binder. As
i work on the machine, i keep track (sorta) of the
time and any comments i may have on the back of each
page. I guess at the end, i will build a builders log
and attache it to the guide. I actually don't know
the cost of printing on my hp, but usually i only
print 10-20 pages at a time, so it seems cheap
john butterfield
601XL, corvair
--- Zenith-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
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> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
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> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
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>
>
>
> Zenith-List Digest
> Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed
> 11/09/05: 22
>
>
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 03:25 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Larry
> Portouw)
> 2. 05:06 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Richard
> McLachlan)
> 3. 05:21 AM - UPDATE - Safety / Wives??? (John
> Hines)
> 4. 06:09 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 80 Msgs -
> 11/08/05 (Gig Giacona)
> 5. 06:58 AM - Re: UPDATE - Safety / Wives???
> (Robert Schoenberger)
> 6. 08:57 AM - cogsdill backside deburring tools
> (Mike Hoffman)
> 7. 09:18 AM - Re: Safety / Wives???
> (JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com)
> 8. 09:20 AM - Re: Safety / Wives???
> (JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com)
> 9. 09:39 AM - Re: Safety / Wives???
> (JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com)
> 10. 09:42 AM - Re: Safety / Wives???
> (JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com)
> 11. 10:04 AM - Canadian: Advanced or Homebuilt?
> (Tony Bonsell)
> 12. 10:29 AM - Zenair CH-601XL Special
> Airworthiness Certificate (jim)
> 13. 02:10 PM - Re: Canadian: Advanced or
> Homebuilt? (Trevor Page)
> 14. 02:34 PM - Number 230 (Zed Smith)
> 15. 03:13 PM - Re: Fuel Sender CH701 (Joe
> Bowling)
> 16. 03:22 PM - Photo Assembly Guide Print (Dave
> VanLanen)
> 17. 03:49 PM - Re: Static Ports for 701 (Gary
> Gower)
> 18. 04:05 PM - Re: Photo Assembly Guide Print
> (Kevin Thorp)
> 19. 04:15 PM - Re: Photo Assembly Guide Print
> (Paul Mulwitz)
> 20. 05:36 PM - Re: Photo Assembly Guide Print
> (Clyde Barcus)
> 21. 07:23 PM - Paint removal, aircraft stripper
> (William Jeffries)
> 22. 08:02 PM - Re: Photo Assembly Guide Print
> (NYTerminat(at)aol.com)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Larry Portouw" <Larry(at)portouw.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives???
>
>
>
> John,
>
> I've been very fortunate. My wife loves to fly-
> going places is the good
> part for her. She's taken the AOPA pinch-hitters
> course a couple of times
> and that seems to have help a bunch. I also got her
> gradually involved in
> the build by asking for help, first with double
> checking drawings and math,
> then with assembly and stuff like deburring parts.
> She's now toughest rivet
> inspector you'll ever meet. She's much more
> comfortable now that she's
> involved in the build, and has a say in the QC of
> the project.
>
> Oh, and I have a PA-22-135/150 Tri-pacer. Not
> ugly. Homely maybe, but
> not ugly. It'll outrun a Continental powered 172
> and is a great short
> field/grass plane. You're right about the cost,
> though. That's why my
> Zodie will eventually replace the T-pacer. Just had
> a $2500 annual
> inspection- but that's another story for another
> list.
>
>
> Larry Portouw
>
> 601-XL
>
> Rudder done. H-stab 70%
>
> Atlanta, GA
>
>
> Safety / Wives???
>
>
> From:
>
> "John Hines"
>
>
> Hines"
>
>
> I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem
> has been convincing my
> wife
> that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on
> the side makes her very
> nervous. She is nervous enough when it
> doesn't say experimental. I
> don't even have my license yet and I have a
> fairly limited budget. I
> almost bought a Piper Colt but then started
> looking at the operating
> and
> maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance
> plus fabric...it aint
> cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year
> old technology and a 55
> year
> old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit
> very well in it. And the
> biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has
> nice sleek lines. It
> will
> cost a little more money than a Colt and it
> will take time. But I
> like
> building things. The satisfaction I would get
> from flying a plane I
> built would be incredible. If I could just
> get my wife to see that.
> She is reluctantly on board at this point but
> she rolls her eyes a lot
> and says "why do you have to get an
> experimental plane?" My birthday
> is
> tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the
> builder's clinic at the
> Zenith factory in January. How did you guys
> get your wives completely
> on board?
>
> John Hines
>
>
>
>
>
>
=== message truncated ===
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint removal, aircraft stripper |
Bill,
Be very careful with the Grumman, I owned a Cheetah for about ten years.
Much of the skin of the Grumman is glued on and many paint strippers
will penetrate and loosen the adhesive. As I recall the only approved
method of paint removal was a type of bead blasting with corn or
something similar.
Tim Shankland
William Jeffries wrote:
>
>Hello Listers,
>
>I have a 1974 Grumman Traveler that I'm restoring. I have found that modern day
aircraft strippers have been weakened due to EPA requirements and they have
not been very effective in removing the 30 year old paint. I haven't worked
as an A&P for ten years now but I am starting to get back into the business.
If there are any better ideas out there I'd sure like to here about them. I realize
that this is off subject a bit as many of you a planing to shoot paint
not strip it at this time. I do feel however that this could still be as useful
discussion none the less.
>
>Thank you in advance, Bill Jeffries.
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair(at)ATT.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint removal, aircraft stripper |
I recall seeing a Grumman Yankee at a small airport in the Tucson area in the mid
70's that the guy had tried to strip. I didn't get that close a look at it,
but from the talk of some of the pilots around the area, the plane was virtually
totaled because of the paint remover. Just my two cents worth.
Mike Sinclair
Tim & Diane Shankland wrote:
>
> Bill,
> Be very careful with the Grumman, I owned a Cheetah for about ten years.
> Much of the skin of the Grumman is glued on and many paint strippers
> will penetrate and loosen the adhesive. As I recall the only approved
> method of paint removal was a type of bead blasting with corn or
> something similar.
>
> Tim Shankland
>
> William Jeffries wrote:
>
> >
> >Hello Listers,
> >
> >I have a 1974 Grumman Traveler that I'm restoring. I have found that modern
day aircraft strippers have been weakened due to EPA requirements and they have
not been very effective in removing the 30 year old paint. I haven't worked
as an A&P for ten years now but I am starting to get back into the business.
If there are any better ideas out there I'd sure like to here about them. I
realize that this is off subject a bit as many of you a planing to shoot paint
not strip it at this time. I do feel however that this could still be as useful
discussion none the less.
> >
> >Thank you in advance, Bill Jeffries.
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Ports for 701 |
Well, we normally fly with the vents open all year round (the round ones in the
window?) . Is not very hot here, but the vents opened are confortable. I
will try with them closed also.
Sometimes when we cruise at 11,500 ft ASL , when we cross the Sierra to the coast,
we open a little the cabin heat...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
ray.stlaurent(at)vsea.com wrote:
Hi Gary,
Belated thanks for your response. Have you noticed much difference between
vents open or closed? I will also have a heater fan --- more needed at my
latitude.
Thanks
-- Ray
New Brunswick, Canada
From: Gary Gower
Subject: Re: Static Ports for 701
in my 701, no static port, only pitot tube.
about 3 to 5 mph diference from GPS indicated in calm wind condition.
average
in 4 directions. Cruise 5,100 rpm 6,500 ft ASL. Indicated speed 93
mph.
Will do some tests at diferent speeds in a couple of weeks. This week end
is family
time...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Guadalajara, Mexico.
701 912S
ray.stlaurent(at)vsea.com wrote:
Hello fortunate flyers,
After searching the archives I am still unclear. Is there a position for
the static ports on a 701 that has been shown to be ?accurate?, or at
least stable, especially at slow speeds? I have seen some references to
using A5 rivets with their stems removed. Does that work or should I use
store-bought ports?
Thanks
-- Ray
701, pegastol wings
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rlendon(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib Dimensions |
Plans Builders,
I am making rear rib forms and would like to use manufacturing holes in the same
location as the lightening holes. There is a reference dimension in the X axis
of 500 or 475 but I don't see how to tie that information back to the 0,0
of the form detail.
I have also requested clarification from Zenith. The print date is 09/04
Has anyone already solved this one?
--
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
Plans Builders,
I am making rear rib forms and would like to use manufacturing holes in the same
location as the lightening holes. There is a reference dimension in the X axis
of 500 or 475 but I don't see how to tie that information back to the 0,0 of
the form detail.
I have also requested clarification from Zenith. The print date is 09/04
Has anyone already solved this one?
--
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Gibfried" <rfg842(at)cox.net> |
Can anyone tell me how keyless rivnuts (10/32) are pulled. My rivnut setter
has only a 10/28 stud and head.
Thanks
Bob, Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | 6-W-6- Tooling Holes - 601XL |
Kevin and Ron:
I would like to add to this discussion becuase it is important. This tripped me
up a few years ago when I was making my rib forms. After making my ribs (and
a set for somebody else) the problem became apparent when I tried to install
the bell crank brackets - the dimensions didn't work. I contacted ZAC about this
and they acknowledged a problem and issued a drawing update. The suggested
an alternate bellcrank location as a fix.
Ron, as I understand it, you are trying to establish the location of your tooling
holes so you can put a bolt through the forms to hold them together. You want
these holes to be the center of the lightening holes. Good idea. This is
where my holes were wrong and let me tell you why.
Let's get out our drawing 6-W-6. Mine is dated 2/02 and I bet yours is newer.
Just under the chart there is a rib labeled "rib blank." This is the sketch
that shows you where to put your holes and the reference point is important.
(The third hole shows 475mm on mine but was later updated to 500mm) On my drawing
it shows the reference point starting at the cutout (not at the edge of the
block). Measuring from the cutout, you end up with all of your holes 10mm too
far back (like mine are). You should measure from the edge of the block.
If you do it wrong, the problem shows up when you try to mount your Aileron Bell
Crank brackets on rib number 7 This is shown directly to the right of this
"rib blank" detail.
To sum it all up you don't tie these holes back to 0,0. (0,0 is used to establish
the curves of the blocks). Use the edge of your form block to establish the
hole locations. Better yet, draw rib number 7 first and try to locate the
bellcrank brackets as shown on the drawing. If they fit between the holes, you
are golden. If not, re-check everything and find the error.
Good luck Ron and enjoy the experience.
Scott Laughlin
601XL/Corvair
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
Installed spark plugs last night.
kevinbonds wrote:
Ron
This part is a little confusing, but the (0,0) is some distance off the edge
of the block. Seems a little strange, but you want to measure from the edge
of your block at station 33.8. So in other words at stations 508.8 and 533.8
from the (0,0) point. Clear as Mud?
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rlendon(at)comcast.net
Subject: Zenith-List: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib Dimensions
Plans Builders,
I am making rear rib forms and would like to use manufacturing holes in the
same location as the lightening holes. There is a reference dimension in
the X axis of 500 or 475 but I don't see how to tie that information back to
the 0,0 of the form detail.
I have also requested clarification from Zenith. The print date is 09/04
Has anyone already solved this one?
--
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
Plans Builders,
I am making rear rib forms and would like to use manufacturing holes in the
same location as the lightening holes. There is a reference dimension in the
X axis of 500 or 475 but I don't see how to tie that information back to the
0,0 of the form detail.
I have also requested clarification from Zenith. The print date is 09/04
Has anyone already solved this one?
--
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 11/10/05 |
Matt,
can not find your LOC to verify my name on list...????
Pay Pal contribution of $50, Nov. 7
Mike Miller
_millrml(at)aol.com_ (mailto:millrml(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rlendon(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib missing Dimension |
Kevin,
I had your reply confirmed by Caleb at Zenith. He went out to the shop and actually
measured a rib on the form. 33.8 is the missing piece of the puzzle. So
for those who look for this next time it will be here in the archives.
Zenith should update that print so all dimensions come from the same reference
0,0. You are correct with the 508.8 and 533.8 being the distance from 0,0.
--
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
>
> Ron
>
> This part is a little confusing, but the (0,0) is some distance off the edge
> of the block. Seems a little strange, but you want to measure from the edge
> of your block at station 33.8. So in other words at stations 508.8 and 533.8
> from the (0,0) point. Clear as Mud?
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
> Nashville TN
>
> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>
> Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> rlendon(at)comcast.net
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib Dimensions
>
>
> Plans Builders,
>
> I am making rear rib forms and would like to use manufacturing holes in the
> same location as the lightening holes. There is a reference dimension in
> the X axis of 500 or 475 but I don't see how to tie that information back to
> the 0,0 of the form detail.
>
> I have also requested clarification from Zenith. The print date is 09/04
>
> Has anyone already solved this one?
> --
> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rlendon(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | 6-W-6- Tooling Holes - 601XL |
Scott,
I work in the engineering environment as a guy who makes the stuff for the engineers.
I am very familar the mistakes they make and when it is not crystal clear
I stop and ask for clairfication. It sounds like you and Kevin both had an
issue with this. I looked in the archives and found nothing. This will go
in for the next guy.
Caleb at Zenith went out to the shop and actually measured a rib on the form.
33.8 is the missing piece of the puzzle. So for those who look for this next
time it will be here in the archives.
Zenith should update that print so all dimensions come from the same reference
0,0. The correct dimensions of 508.8 not 475, and 533.8 not 500, being the distances
from 0,0.
--
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
>
> Kevin and Ron:
>
> I would like to add to this discussion becuase it is important. This tripped
me
> up a few years ago when I was making my rib forms. After making my ribs (and
a
> set for somebody else) the problem became apparent when I tried to install the
> bell crank brackets - the dimensions didn't work. I contacted ZAC about this
and
> they acknowledged a problem and issued a drawing update. The suggested an
> alternate bellcrank location as a fix.
>
> Ron, as I understand it, you are trying to establish the location of your
> tooling holes so you can put a bolt through the forms to hold them together.
> You want these holes to be the center of the lightening holes. Good idea. This
> is where my holes were wrong and let me tell you why.
>
> Let's get out our drawing 6-W-6. Mine is dated 2/02 and I bet yours is newer.
> Just under the chart there is a rib labeled "rib blank." This is the sketch
> that shows you where to put your holes and the reference point is important.
> (The third hole shows 475mm on mine but was later updated to 500mm) On my
> drawing it shows the reference point starting at the cutout (not at the edge
of
> the block). Measuring from the cutout, you end up with all of your holes 10mm
> too far back (like mine are). You should measure from the edge of the block.
> If you do it wrong, the problem shows up when you try to mount your Aileron Bell
> Crank brackets on rib number 7 This is shown directly to the right of this "rib
> blank" detail.
>
> To sum it all up you don't tie these holes back to 0,0. (0,0 is used to
> establish the curves of the blocks). Use the edge of your form block to
> establish the hole locations. Better yet, draw rib number 7 first and try to
> locate the bellcrank brackets as shown on the drawing. If they fit between
the
> holes, you are golden. If not, re-check everything and find the error.
>
> Good luck Ron and enjoy the experience.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> 601XL/Corvair
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
> Installed spark plugs last night.
>
> kevinbonds wrote:
>
> Ron
>
> This part is a little confusing, but the (0,0) is some distance off the edge
> of the block. Seems a little strange, but you want to measure from the edge
> of your block at station 33.8. So in other words at stations 508.8 and 533.8
> from the (0,0) point. Clear as Mud?
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
> Nashville TN
>
> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>
> Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> rlendon(at)comcast.net
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib Dimensions
>
>
> Plans Builders,
>
> I am making rear rib forms and would like to use manufacturing holes in the
> same location as the lightening holes. There is a reference dimension in
> the X axis of 500 or 475 but I don't see how to tie that information back to
> the 0,0 of the form detail.
>
> I have also requested clarification from Zenith. The print date is 09/04
>
> Has anyone already solved this one?
> --
> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Jeffries <vair601(at)yahoo.com> |
Listers,
Thanks to all that commented, as I will be getting with Grumman for greater clarifacation.
Maybe I'll give Jim Bede a call and ask him what I should do.
Thanks again, Bill Jeffries
601 Dreaming, going down for a test flight in September.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Crook" <ronflys701(at)hotmail.com> |
Try efs 2500 from eviroteck I seen a guy strip an old cessna and u wouldn t
believe the numbers just dripped to the floor and though they were on the
plane and washed off with water pressure ?
Not even a visual sign around revits smoooooooooooth job
>From: William Jeffries <vair601(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To: list
>Subject: Zenith-List: Paint Stripping
>Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:26:28 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>Listers,
>
>Thanks to all that commented, as I will be getting with Grumman for greater
>clarifacation. Maybe I'll give Jim Bede a call and ask him what I should
>do.
>
>Thanks again, Bill Jeffries
>
>
>601 Dreaming, going down for a test flight in September.
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the Internet has
to offer.
Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN Premium right now and get the
first two months FREE*.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer(at)cablespeed.com> |
| Subject: | Jabiru FW FWD cowl for 601 prop hub hole size |
Fellow 601 builders,
How large did you make the hole for the prop hub? Right now I'm looking at
3" but I'm not really sure it's big enough or too big.
Thanks for any help you may provide!!
Mark Stauffer
Odenton, MD
Working on firewall fwd.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage access door |
Kevin, I just finished up the access door. I used solid rivets and nut
plates with a dimple set. It worked well. Take a look at my web site.
http://www.zodiacxl.com/Rear%20Fusealage.htm
Cheers,
Matt
www.zodiacxl.com
>
> Is anyone out there installing the new bottom fuselage access door? This
> will require the first install of rivnuts that I have had to do. Anyone
> have
> a good suggestion for the 3/32 rivets? They will have to be countersunk.
> How
> should I do this? Dimple or the microstop, countersink method? Any
> suggestions?
>
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Russell <clojan(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage access door |
I started to use 3/32 pop rivets on the nut plates after fighting those tiny squeeze
rivets. Much easier and since it is just holding the plate it is not a
structural issue. jack in Los Osos, Ca ( Plane at Fresno)
>
> Is anyone out there installing the new bottom fuselage access door? This
> will require the first install of rivnuts that I have had to do. Anyone
> have
> a good suggestion for the 3/32 rivets? They will have to be countersunk.
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru FW FWD cowl for 601 prop hub hole size |
Mark, there is no correct answer and it may grow in size and shape. Take
some gray primer and spray the hub, insure the inside lips of the half hole in
the cowl shell are also painted, put cowls back of and start her up. Rev the
engine, shut down and inspect if no paint is rubbed your fine. Maybe fine, cause
under full power the engine really swings in the mounts and may rub. If you
find a place, note where the paint is rubbed off on the hole in the cowl and
drimmel out a bit more. Took me three times to get it right and you don't want
it
too much larger then necessary, Best of luck, Bill 601XL-3300w/DC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 601XL Flys 40 Hours |
Dear Thread Builder and Flying Friends, I want to let all you fine folks know
that my 'baby' completed her 40th hour this pm. It felt great to leap over
another flying hurtle. And because of some of you and your discussions and
assistance it was made possible, I appreciate your interest and help, I owe you
folks a bunch.Taking the Wife up in the morning, Hope she's ready for it. Best
regards, Bill of Georgia N505WP 601XL-3300w/DC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rlendon(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Slow down, take it easy. |
Plans Builders,
I was so excited to be starting the second rib form I got a little ahead of myself
and didn't double check my measurements before cutting.
The process I used: layout grid, layout points on grid, check points dimensions
(didn't do that on rib 2), connect points (the cut line), two way tape second
board to first board, saw them out as one, grind to line, drill mfg holes (lighting
hole centers), radius edges, separate forms, grind 10 degree back draft
on each board (making R & L parts).
I had made rib 1 and 2 on the same day and didn't catch it till I was getting ready
to cut #3. I was going to back draft all three ribs tonight and noticed
#2's trailing edge was smaller 10mm than #1. I'm pretty sure the flap is the
symmetrical and this didn't make sense.
Well I was able to save it and make it a rib 5. Now I have rib 1, 3, & 5 ready
to make parts.
Lesson: Measure Twice, Cut Once.
--
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Hofmeister" <jahofmeister(at)chartermi.net> |
Has anyone switched to Evans NPG+ waterless coolant? I switched to this
coolant on my dads 912ULS and the result was a 40* increase in operating
temperature & a smell like I was cooking Pancakes. I have found with
some research on the internet that the people that tried this with small
capacity systems like motorcycles, and in this case the 912 system,
found it did not work so well. I have now switched back to Prestone
extended life (pink) and now I am right back down in the 200* F range
again. I would like to save somebody the cost of doing this
disappointing change however; I have a fresh gallon of NPG+ if anybody
wants to purchase it at a discount.
Jeff Hofmeister
N271GH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Page <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Evans NPG+ |
When I started test flying my 601 earlier this year I encountered a
lot of coolant boiling problems. It seems I could just not get the
air pockets out of my system on the 912.
After much frustration I switched over to Evans NPG+ and it cured the
problem instantly. Temps are within specs and I don't worry about
things anymore. I'm certainly a believer! (That smell *is* a little
weird but I'm used to it now)
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Nov 13, 2005, at 8:53 AM, Jeff Hofmeister wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone switched to Evans NPG+ waterless coolant? I switched to
> this
> coolant on my dads 912ULS and the result was a 40* increase in
> operating
> temperature & a smell like I was cooking Pancakes. I have found with
> some research on the internet that the people that tried this with
> small
> capacity systems like motorcycles, and in this case the 912 system,
> found it did not work so well. I have now switched back to Prestone
> extended life (pink) and now I am right back down in the 200* F range
> again. I would like to save somebody the cost of doing this
> disappointing change however; I have a fresh gallon of NPG+ if anybody
> wants to purchase it at a discount.
>
> Jeff Hofmeister
>
> N271GH
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Hofmeister" <jahofmeister(at)chartermi.net> |
Trev,
Gosh, I wish I could say the same...... I went from 200* to
240* operating temps. I tried it for a couple weeks and the results
were the same during each flight. What concerned me is outside air temp
was in the 50's so what would it be like if air temps are in the 80's &
even 90's.
Jeff Hofmeister
N272GH (yes, 271 was a fat finger)
When I started test flying my 601 earlier this year I encountered a
lot of coolant boiling problems. It seems I could just not get the
air pockets out of my system on the 912.
After much frustration I switched over to Evans NPG+ and it cured the
problem instantly. Temps are within specs and I don't worry about
things anymore. I'm certainly a believer! (That smell *is* a little
weird but I'm used to it now)
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Nov 13, 2005, at 8:53 AM, Jeff Hofmeister wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone switched to Evans NPG+ waterless coolant? I switched to
> this
> coolant on my dads 912ULS and the result was a 40* increase in
> operating
> temperature & a smell like I was cooking Pancakes. I have found with
> some research on the internet that the people that tried this with
> small
> capacity systems like motorcycles, and in this case the 912 system,
> found it did not work so well. I have now switched back to Prestone
> extended life (pink) and now I am right back down in the 200* F range
> again. I would like to save somebody the cost of doing this
> disappointing change however; I have a fresh gallon of NPG+ if anybody
> wants to purchase it at a discount.
>
> Jeff Hofmeister
>
> N271GH
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William J. Naumuk" <billn(at)velocity.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slow down, take it easy. |
Ron-
The phrase that occurs in my log more than anything else is "Slow down,
asshole"! (Of course, this is the log not intended for public consumption).
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Slow down, take it easy.
>
> Plans Builders,
>
> I was so excited to be starting the second rib form I got a little ahead
of myself and didn't double check my measurements before cutting.
>
> The process I used: layout grid, layout points on grid, check points
dimensions (didn't do that on rib 2), connect points (the cut line), two way
tape second board to first board, saw them out as one, grind to line, drill
mfg holes (lighting hole centers), radius edges, separate forms, grind 10
degree back draft on each board (making R & L parts).
>
> I had made rib 1 and 2 on the same day and didn't catch it till I was
getting ready to cut #3. I was going to back draft all three ribs tonight
and noticed #2's trailing edge was smaller 10mm than #1. I'm pretty sure
the flap is the symmetrical and this didn't make sense.
>
> Well I was able to save it and make it a rib 5. Now I have rib 1, 3, & 5
ready to make parts.
>
> Lesson: Measure Twice, Cut Once.
>
> --
> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
> http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Flys 40 Hours |
Bill- Congrats on the 40th hr. Can't wait to join you. Hope your wife has
a wonderful, smooth flight for her indoctrination. Regards, Al Young
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick" <zodie(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage access door |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Russell" <clojan(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage access door
>
> I started to use 3/32 pop rivets on the nut plates after fighting those
> tiny squeeze rivets. Much easier and since it is just holding the plate it
> is not a structural issue. jack in Los Osos, Ca ( Plane at Fresno)
Those little 3/32 pop-rivets are easy to install, but they don't hold up
well in nutplates. You'll eventually have a stubborn fastener that will
require more torque to remove than the shear strength of the pop rivet can
handle. When that happens you're pretty much stuck with trying to hold the
head of the screw with some small visegrips while you drill the head off the
screw. This is REALLY a pain with countersunk screws.
That being said, I used pop-rivets to fasten the nutplates to the fiberglass
prop spinner. Everywhere else I used the solid rivets and either squeezed
them with a rivit squeezer or peened the bucktail on the bench with a hammer
and punch.
Rick Pitcher
no Fuselage access door... yet, but it sure looks like a good idea.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Ribb" <dan(at)danribb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage access door |
>
> Can somebody tell me whether this door is part of the 601 design, or at
> least "blessed" by ZAC?
>
The access door is on my plans dated 08/05.
Also, I have used flush Monel, steel or stainless steel 3/32" pop rivets on
nutplates, dimpled or countersunk, with excellent results and durability.
These have shear strengths as good (and sometimes exceeding) solid aluminum
rivets. I would probably not use aluminum 3/32" pop rivets for nutplates
needing repeated use like an access door.
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL tail kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clyde D. Ehlers" <clydes-shop(at)bizdialup.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib missing Dimension |
HI:List
the Menning of the nombers is the 0,0 referince of the start of the Ruler
edge used for a hirline of less then prodused by a # 2 Lead pencel that is
sharp. Best used in tenths of inch this is drafting standerdes of the fortes
and in my aircraft class In the trade school.
Clyde Ehlers Zenith CH 200/300 # 25 90% done Onley 90% of Engen &
Instuments ,Electrical Using A Corvair 1962 Spider Engen
----- Original Message -----
From: <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib missing Dimension
>
> Kevin,
>
> I had your reply confirmed by Caleb at Zenith. He went out to the shop
and actually measured a rib on the form. 33.8 is the missing piece of the
puzzle. So for those who look for this next time it will be here in the
archives.
>
> Zenith should update that print so all dimensions come from the same
reference 0,0. You are correct with the 508.8 and 533.8 being the distance
from 0,0.
>
> --
> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
>
>
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > This part is a little confusing, but the (0,0) is some distance off the
edge
> > of the block. Seems a little strange, but you want to measure from the
edge
> > of your block at station 33.8. So in other words at stations 508.8 and
533.8
> > from the (0,0) point. Clear as Mud?
> >
> > Kevin Bonds
> >
> > Nashville TN
> >
> > 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
> >
> > Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
> >
> > http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > rlendon(at)comcast.net
> > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Zenith-List: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib Dimensions
> >
> >
> > Plans Builders,
> >
> > I am making rear rib forms and would like to use manufacturing holes in
the
> > same location as the lightening holes. There is a reference dimension
in
> > the X axis of 500 or 475 but I don't see how to tie that information
back to
> > the 0,0 of the form detail.
> >
> > I have also requested clarification from Zenith. The print date is
09/04
> >
> > Has anyone already solved this one?
> > --
> > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage access door |
Reduce the sheer load on your nutplates with Boelube. I found out about it
while helping a friend build an RV7. I believe you can find how to get it on
the Vans site. It was developed by Boeing and is a waxy substance that you
smear on the bolt before screwing it in to the nutplate. Works great. And
no, it doesn't make the bolt more likely to come off inflight. Also don't
lose a lot of sleep about sheering the pulled rivets that hold your
nutplates.... not gonna happen.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Ribb" <dan(at)danribb.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage access door
>
>>
>> Can somebody tell me whether this door is part of the 601 design, or at
>> least "blessed" by ZAC?
>>
>
> The access door is on my plans dated 08/05.
>
> Also, I have used flush Monel, steel or stainless steel 3/32" pop rivets
> on
> nutplates, dimpled or countersunk, with excellent results and durability.
> These have shear strengths as good (and sometimes exceeding) solid
> aluminum
> rivets. I would probably not use aluminum 3/32" pop rivets for nutplates
> needing repeated use like an access door.
>
> Dan Ribb
> Fresno, CA
> 601XL tail kit
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Erickson" <erickson.ken(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 11/10/05 |
LOC??
----- Original Message -----
From: MillrML(at)aol.com
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 10:35 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 11/10/05
Matt,
can not find your LOC to verify my name on list...????
Pay Pal contribution of $50, Nov. 7
Mike Miller
_millrml(at)aol.com_ (mailto:millrml(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
>
> Matt,
> Can not find your LOC to verify my name on list...????
>
> Pay Pal contribution of $50, Nov. 7
>
> Mike Miller
>
> _millrml(at)aol.com_ (mailto:millrml(at)aol.com)
>
Mike,
The LOC (List of Contributors) will be published only once at the end
of the Fund Raiser, around December 1st. And yes, I did receive your
Contribution on:
"11/04/05 16:15:37 PM Michael Miller $50 PayPal Kitlog Pro".
Thank you for the Contribution to support the Lists. It is very much
appreciated!!
Matt Dralle
List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Evan Lewis <elewis12(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | any form blocks for sale? |
Would any finished plans builder want to sell his form blocks (ribs, etc)
elewis12(at)shaw.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick" <zodie(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage access door |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage access door
>
> Reduce the sheer load on your nutplates with Boelube. I found out about it
> while helping a friend build an RV7. I believe you can find how to get it
> on
> the Vans site. It was developed by Boeing and is a waxy substance that you
> smear on the bolt before screwing it in to the nutplate. Works great. And
> no, it doesn't make the bolt more likely to come off inflight. Also don't
> lose a lot of sleep about sheering the pulled rivets that hold your
> nutplates.... not gonna happen.
>
> Ed
That Boelube is great stuff. We used it at Northrop frequently for
drill-lube and for fastener installations. At Lockheed we used beeswax for
the same effect, mostly on the all-titanium SR71. Talk about wearing out
drill bits in a hurry!!!
And the monel, titanium, or stainless "blind-fasteners" (we never call them
"POP-rivets") are a MUCH better choice than the soft aluminum pop-rivets (I
used monel blind fasteners on my fiberglass spinner).
But after drilling out hundreds of fasteners from spun nutplates over the
past 35 years, I'd still use solid rivets wherever possible.
Just my preference from personal experience,
Rick P.
N601ZR
CH601HD, with some HDS outer wing-panels planned for this winter's "spare
time" project... if I can find some "spare time".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Thorp <kevin(at)medamation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Flys 40 Hours |
Bill,
How did the Mrs. like her flight in your XL? Do you have any photos of
your plane?
JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>Dear Thread Builder and Flying Friends, I want to let all you fine folks know
>that my 'baby' completed her 40th hour this pm. It felt great to leap over
>another flying hurtle. And because of some of you and your discussions and
>assistance it was made possible, I appreciate your interest and help, I owe you
>folks a bunch.Taking the Wife up in the morning, Hope she's ready for it. Best
>regards, Bill of Georgia N505WP 601XL-3300w/DC
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MElrod3732(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Rotax 912S coolant temps |
Hello fellow builders: I am starting to program my Grand Rapids EIS for my
Rotax 912S and was wondering what temperature range to use for the coolant.
To my amazement, the Rotax operators manual does not even give a max temp for
the coolant.
Thanks in advance,
Mike Elrod 701 95% complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard McLachlan" <richard(at)rodsley.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912S coolant temps |
Mine runs from a minimum after warm up of approx 80 deg C on a long descent
to a max of 115 deg C on a climb on a hot day. We use 50% water glycol mix.
----- Original Message -----
From: <MElrod3732(at)aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax 912S coolant temps
>
> Hello fellow builders: I am starting to program my Grand Rapids EIS for my
> Rotax 912S and was wondering what temperature range to use for the
coolant.
> To my amazement, the Rotax operators manual does not even give a max temp
for
> the coolant.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Mike Elrod 701 95% complete
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Coolant temp and NPG+ |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
> Has anyone switched to Evans NPG+ waterless coolant?...
-------
> Hello fellow builders: I am starting to program my Grand Rapids EIS for my
> Rotax 912S and was wondering what temperature range to use for the coolant.
> To my amazement, the Rotax operators manual does not even give a max temp for
...
Have you guys checked the Rotax Notams (available on their websites)
regarding NPG+ coolant? Some models of Rotax now require its use. Coolant
temp and CHT limits are specified there as I recall.
Also, what's the problem with coolant temps of 240F after switching to NPG+?
The boiling point of this stuff is well over 300F as I recall. All the
concerns about coolant staying below 210-220 have to do with the boiling
temp of water with previous coolant mixtures, don't they?
Curious
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Page <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Coolant temp and NPG+ |
Grant, the boiling temp of NPG+ is 375F!! I monitor my coolant
temps but I don't rely or worry about them. The hottest I've seen it
go is 182F, the norm being 169-180 depending on outside temps. My
CHTs (more important) run 230-260 on front-rear.
For me the Evans has cured my boiling problem of plain 50/50 glycol
mixtures and stabilized my temps across the board. The only
discrepancy I have is my engine being older has the oil temps being
read by the front oil banjo bolt location on the bottom of the engine
which reads a bit higher since the oil has circulated in the heads.
Newer engines read the oil temps at the oil pump after going through
the cooling rad. My oil runs 245F on hot days, recently they've been
220 or so. If it gets colder I'll have to tape off the rad a bit.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Nov 14, 2005, at 3:19 AM, Grant Corriveau wrote:
>
>
>> Has anyone switched to Evans NPG+ waterless coolant?...
> -------
>> Hello fellow builders: I am starting to program my Grand Rapids
>> EIS for my
>> Rotax 912S and was wondering what temperature range to use for
>> the coolant.
>> To my amazement, the Rotax operators manual does not even give a
>> max temp for
> ...
>
> Have you guys checked the Rotax Notams (available on their websites)
> regarding NPG+ coolant? Some models of Rotax now require its use.
> Coolant
> temp and CHT limits are specified there as I recall.
>
> Also, what's the problem with coolant temps of 240F after switching
> to NPG+?
> The boiling point of this stuff is well over 300F as I recall. All
> the
> concerns about coolant staying below 210-220 have to do with the
> boiling
> temp of water with previous coolant mixtures, don't they?
>
> Curious
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
"Zenith-List Digest List"
| Subject: | Little solid rivets PLUS I'm back to work onn N601WR |
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912
>
> From: "Rick" <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage access door
>
>
> Those little 3/32 pop-rivets are easy to install, but they don't hold up
> well in nutplates. You'll eventually have a stubborn fastener that will
> require more torque to remove than the shear strength of the pop rivet can
> handle. When that happens you're pretty much stuck with trying to hold the
> head of the screw with some small visegrips while you drill the head off
> the
> screw. This is REALLY a pain with countersunk screws.
> That being said, I used pop-rivets to fasten the nutplates to the
> fiberglass
> prop spinner. Everywhere else I used the solid rivets and either squeezed
> them with a rivit squeezer or peened the bucktail on the bench with a
> hammer
> and punch.
>
Do you have a dealer and part number for the rivet squeezer you used. I put
off doing the ones in the wing but will have to do it sooner or later and
haven't a clue has to how the solid rivets are done.
GigG
P.S. Well, after a year of not working very much on my plane I got back on
to it over the last week. I had hit a wall on the forward fuselage and was
stupmed until I downloaded ALL of the new photo manuals and went back over
everything I'd done.
I figured out the errors I'd made, ordered new forward fuse skins and am
back in the hunt. BTW you guys who are just now getting kit parts don't know
how lucky you are the pre drilled holes in the skins really help.
I'll have some new pics on my website www.peoamerica.net/N601WR before the
end of the day.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jim" <jim(at)pellien.com> |
| Subject: | Announcement: Zenair 601XL Private Pilot Course |
All,
Previously I had announced to this group our 1-Week Sport Pilot Course at the at
the Sky Bryce Airport in the Bryce Mountain Resort of BASYE, VA. Some customers
have indicated that they would like to go straight for their Private Pilot
certificate in an immersive, accellerated fashion, rather than first getting
their Sport Pilot ticket.
As a result of this customer feedback, MASPL is now offering a 16 day Private Pilot
immersive course at Sky Bryce for $8490 (includes King ground school and
practical flight school DVD's, 40 hours of aircraft time, 25 with an instructor
and 15 solo, MASPL's Ground School Plus, private or semi-private instructor,
16 days lodging and practical test). In other words we give you the minimum
FAA requirements (except we give you 25 flight hours with an instructor instead
of the fAA minimum of 20) for the PP license. If you need extra days or hours
to get sufficient proficiency to receive a sign-off for your FAA checkride,
the cost is $100 per night lodging and $110 per extra flight hour with instructor
or $70 solo (wet).
The 1-week Sport Pilot course costs $4290.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim(at)sportsplanes.com
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick" <zodie(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Little solid rivets PLUS I'm back to work onn N601WR |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net>
>> Those little 3/32 pop-rivets are easy to install, but they don't hold up
>> well in nutplates. You'll eventually have a stubborn fastener that will
>> require more torque to remove than the shear strength of the pop rivet
>> can
>> handle. When that happens you're pretty much stuck with trying to hold
>> the
>> head of the screw with some small visegrips while you drill the head off
>> the
>> screw. This is REALLY a pain with countersunk screws.
>> That being said, I used pop-rivets to fasten the nutplates to the
>> fiberglass
>> prop spinner. Everywhere else I used the solid rivets and either squeezed
>> them with a rivit squeezer or peened the bucktail on the bench with a
>> hammer
>> and punch.
>>
>
> Do you have a dealer and part number for the rivet squeezer you used. I
> put
> off doing the ones in the wing but will have to do it sooner or later and
> haven't a clue has to how the solid rivets are done.
>
> GigG
I bought mine for a couple of bucks at a surplus sale 20-some years ago when
Lockheed was winding down the L-1011 production. Aircraft Spruce has them
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/handrivetsqueezer.php for $135
but I can't tell if includes the yoke or not. You'll also need a couple of
the flat squeezer sets and MAYBE a dimpler set or two.
If you're an EAA member, ask around at the next meeting. I'll bet someone
has one they'll loan you.
Rick P.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john butterfield <jdbutterfield(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | auto pilot servo placements |
hi list
I am working on my fuse and intend to install both
directional and altitude hold auto pilots. i plan to
use Trio plus their alt hold.
does anyone have any suggestions as to my choice and
more importantly, does anyone have any comments,
recomendatons, and pictures of the installation of the
servo's.
regards
john butterfield
601XL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron &Phyliss" <rgdplg(at)radiowire.net> |
| Subject: | Custom cowl and radiator combination |
We are looking for builders that may be considering the 1300cc Suzuki engine for
the CH-601 or CH-701. If there appears to be enough interest, a custom combination
of cowl and radiator may be designed and tested. There are several CH-701s
using the standard cowl and same radiator design with the Suzuki engine.
It is possible the existing radiators may need to be somewhat larger to accommodate
hot weather and high altitude operations, therefore, the custom combination
for the above mentioned aircraft.
If you have any interest at all, please e-mail Eddie at:
techwelding(at)comcast.net
Ron Dallmeyer
CH-701
Bonnots Mill, MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: auto pilot servo placements |
Hi John;
You failed to mention which model of airplane it is. I have the Trio AP
and AH on my CH-601HDS and I do have some photos that may help.
Mike
UHS Spinners
john butterfield wrote:
>
> hi list
>
> I am working on my fuse and intend to install both
> directional and altitude hold auto pilots. i plan to
> use Trio plus their alt hold.
>
> does anyone have any suggestions as to my choice and
> more importantly, does anyone have any comments,
> recomendatons, and pictures of the installation of the
> servo's.
>
> regards
> john butterfield
> 601XL
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | auto pilot servo placements |
If he isn't I am (assuming the HDS is not too different than the XL behind
the seat). I have the Trio AP and am saving room for the AH. Have you flown
with them yet?
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Fothergill
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: auto pilot servo placements
-->
Hi John;
You failed to mention which model of airplane it is. I have the Trio AP and
AH on my CH-601HDS and I do have some photos that may help.
Mike
UHS Spinners
john butterfield wrote:
> -->
>
> hi list
>
> I am working on my fuse and intend to install both directional and
> altitude hold auto pilots. i plan to use Trio plus their alt hold.
>
> does anyone have any suggestions as to my choice and more importantly,
> does anyone have any comments, recomendatons, and pictures of the
> installation of the servo's.
>
> regards
> john butterfield
> 601XL
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair(at)ATT.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: Coolant temp and NPG+ |
I've had some concerns about this as well, especially since I just bought
a new 912S that had a label on the reservoir saying not to use any water
in the system and to use only the Evans coolant. Phil Lockwood told me 3
weeks ago that either 50/50 or Evans could be used, so to confirm I called
him back today. He told me that it wasn't a warranty issue and that either
could be used. The main thing to watch out for is that with 50/50, the
temperature should not exceed 248f. If it does then the system should be
drained and the coolant replaced with the Evans. My 912UL typically ran
around 210 on both the oil and coolent temps and since the 912ULS tends to
run hotter, along with the expected higher temps from the Evans, I'm going
to first try the 50/50. I'm also installing a different oil cooler bought
from Lockwood, that Phil says should lower the oil temp about 20 degrees,
and therefore the coolant temp should be a little lower also. The new oil
cooler will require a modification to the lower cowl, but fiberglass is
pretty easy to work. If anyone on the list has had other experiences along
these lines I would sure be interested in hearing them. I'm probably 1-2
months from an engine start, so still have time to change my mind. And to
do a little more research! If I do continue on this path I will post
results.
Mike Sinclair N701TD
Trevor Page wrote:
>
> Grant, the boiling temp of NPG+ is 375F!! I monitor my coolant
> temps but I don't rely or worry about them. The hottest I've seen it
> go is 182F, the norm being 169-180 depending on outside temps. My
> CHTs (more important) run 230-260 on front-rear.
>
> For me the Evans has cured my boiling problem of plain 50/50 glycol
> mixtures and stabilized my temps across the board. The only
> discrepancy I have is my engine being older has the oil temps being
> read by the front oil banjo bolt location on the bottom of the engine
> which reads a bit higher since the oil has circulated in the heads.
> Newer engines read the oil temps at the oil pump after going through
> the cooling rad. My oil runs 245F on hot days, recently they've been
> 220 or so. If it gets colder I'll have to tape off the rad a bit.
>
> Trev Page
> C-IDUS 601HD R912
>
> On Nov 14, 2005, at 3:19 AM, Grant Corriveau wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >> Has anyone switched to Evans NPG+ waterless coolant?...
> > -------
> >> Hello fellow builders: I am starting to program my Grand Rapids
> >> EIS for my
> >> Rotax 912S and was wondering what temperature range to use for
> >> the coolant.
> >> To my amazement, the Rotax operators manual does not even give a
> >> max temp for
> > ...
> >
> > Have you guys checked the Rotax Notams (available on their websites)
> > regarding NPG+ coolant? Some models of Rotax now require its use.
> > Coolant
> > temp and CHT limits are specified there as I recall.
> >
> > Also, what's the problem with coolant temps of 240F after switching
> > to NPG+?
> > The boiling point of this stuff is well over 300F as I recall. All
> > the
> > concerns about coolant staying below 210-220 have to do with the
> > boiling
> > temp of water with previous coolant mixtures, don't they?
> >
> > Curious
> > --
> > Grant Corriveau
> > C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: auto pilot servo placements |
Hi Craig;
Yes, I have flown with them. I am sending a pic direct.
Mike
Craig Payne wrote:
>
> If he isn't I am (assuming the HDS is not too different than the XL behind
> the seat). I have the Trio AP and am saving room for the AH. Have you flown
> with them yet?
>
> -- Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Fothergill
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: auto pilot servo placements
>
> -->
>
> Hi John;
> You failed to mention which model of airplane it is. I have the Trio AP and
> AH on my CH-601HDS and I do have some photos that may help.
> Mike
> UHS Spinners
>
> john butterfield wrote:
>
>>-->
>>
>>hi list
>>
>>I am working on my fuse and intend to install both directional and
>>altitude hold auto pilots. i plan to use Trio plus their alt hold.
>>
>>does anyone have any suggestions as to my choice and more importantly,
>>does anyone have any comments, recomendatons, and pictures of the
>>installation of the servo's.
>>
>>regards
>>john butterfield
>>601XL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Primingarchermj(at)swbell.net |
Fumes are a concern. You want to wear protective equipment. I do it in the
garage with a respirator and keep the garage door open. I wouldn't want to
do it in the house. My wife has a great sense of humor, but this may tip
the scales. Definitely want to turn off the furnace. I sprayed some last
winter. I waited for a fairly warm day and heated up the garage. Then
opened the door. When done, and the fumes cleared, I closed it back up.
Seemed to work ok.
There is another option I am thinking about. AFS at
http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/ has a waterborne product that looks
promising. I ordered a quart of primer and a quart of finish to do the
interior. I figure if I like it, I will paint the outside with it. They
suggest an acid etch and then their primer. I think it may be fine. And a
lot healthier. This stuff is kind of expensive. But you know every I try
to save a couple of bucks I seem to pay for it later. This is not a project
for the faint of heart or wallet.
Good luck
Matt
www.zodiacxl.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuselage access door
> How are the fumes (I'll be needing to do priming indoors in winter)? Any
> health hazards? I suppose I would have to shut off my furnace during the
> actual priming to keep from blowing myself up?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt & Jo [mailto:archermj(at)swbell.net]
> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 7:30 PM
> To: Dave VanLanen
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage access door
>
> Variprime is made by Dupont. It is a self etching primer. I use a HVLP
> gun
>
> and the over spray is very reduced. I just clean the AL with lacquer
> thinner and spray. Seems to work well. It is a two part primer. 1 to 1
> mix with the primer and activator/acid. Check with your local auto paint
> store. It is dry to the touch in about 15 minutes. Usually wait
> overnight
> to assemble.
>
> Good luck
>
> Matt
> www.zodiacxl.com
> -List: Fuselage access door
>
>
>> Matt,
>>
>> Nice looking work!
>>
>> What is "variprime"? I have been thinking about using zinc oxide, and
>> brushing it on so I don't need to worry about overspray in my shop, but I
>> have not heard about variprime.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dave
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Evan Lewis <elewis12(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | any ch701 form blocks for sale |
Just a clarification on my early post
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Coolant temp and NPG+ |
Hi folks,
I'm using 50:50 in my Rotax 912 / CH601 HDS. Oil and water rad are inside
the cowling. Oil runs typically around 200 F (need to block the oil cooler
partially during winter operations). Coolant runs around 130 F in cruise and
up to 220 F during taxiing and long climb outs in hot days.
I replaced the overflow tank bottle (too flimsy) with a overflow tank from
some car. Key to low temps is the airflow through the rads - requires
baffeling to and from the rads, when installed underneath the cowling. A
huge impact has the lip in front of the bottom opening in the lower cowling.
This lip creates the low pressure and thus allows the hot air to escape
through the bottom opening.
Happy flying
Thilo Kind
> --- Ursprngliche Nachricht ---
> Von: Mike Sinclair
> An: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Betreff: Re: Zenith-List: Coolant temp and NPG+
>
>
> I've had some concerns about this as well, especially since I just bought
> a new 912S that had a label on the reservoir saying not to use any water
> in the system and to use only the Evans coolant. Phil Lockwood told me 3
> weeks ago that either 50/50 or Evans could be used, so to confirm I called
> him back today. He told me that it wasn't a warranty issue and that either
> could be used. The main thing to watch out for is that with 50/50, the
> temperature should not exceed 248f. If it does then the system should be
> drained and the coolant replaced with the Evans. My 912UL typically ran
> around 210 on both the oil and coolent temps and since the 912ULS tends to
> run hotter, along with the expected higher temps from the Evans, I'm going
> to first try the 50/50. I'm also installing a different oil cooler bought
> >from Lockwood, that Phil says should lower the oil temp about 20 degrees,
> and therefore the coolant temp should be a little lower also. The new oil
> cooler will require a modification to the lower cowl, but fiberglass is
> pretty easy to work. If anyone on the list has had other experiences along
> these lines I would sure be interested in hearing them. I'm probably 1-2
> months from an engine start, so still have time to change my mind. And to
> do a little more research! If I do continue on this path I will post
> results.
>
> Mike Sinclair N701TD
>
> Trevor Page wrote:
>
> >
> > Grant, the boiling temp of NPG+ is 375F!! I monitor my coolant
> > temps but I don't rely or worry about them. The hottest I've seen it
> > go is 182F, the norm being 169-180 depending on outside temps. My
> > CHTs (more important) run 230-260 on front-rear.
> >
> > For me the Evans has cured my boiling problem of plain 50/50 glycol
> > mixtures and stabilized my temps across the board. The only
> > discrepancy I have is my engine being older has the oil temps being
> > read by the front oil banjo bolt location on the bottom of the engine
> > which reads a bit higher since the oil has circulated in the heads.
> > Newer engines read the oil temps at the oil pump after going through
> > the cooling rad. My oil runs 245F on hot days, recently they've been
> > 220 or so. If it gets colder I'll have to tape off the rad a bit.
> >
> > Trev Page
> > C-IDUS 601HD R912
> >
> > On Nov 14, 2005, at 3:19 AM, Grant Corriveau wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >> Has anyone switched to Evans NPG+ waterless coolant?...
> > > -------
> > >> Hello fellow builders: I am starting to program my Grand Rapids
> > >> EIS for my
> > >> Rotax 912S and was wondering what temperature range to use for
> > >> the coolant.
> > >> To my amazement, the Rotax operators manual does not even give a
> > >> max temp for
> > > ...
> > >
> > > Have you guys checked the Rotax Notams (available on their websites)
> > > regarding NPG+ coolant? Some models of Rotax now require its use.
> > > Coolant
> > > temp and CHT limits are specified there as I recall.
> > >
> > > Also, what's the problem with coolant temps of 240F after switching
> > > to NPG+?
> > > The boiling point of this stuff is well over 300F as I recall. All
> > > the
> > > concerns about coolant staying below 210-220 have to do with the
> > > boiling
> > > temp of water with previous coolant mixtures, don't they?
> > >
> > > Curious
> > > --
> > > Grant Corriveau
> > > C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Highspeed-Freiheit. Bei GMX supergnstig, z.B. GMX DSL_Cityflat,
DSL-Flatrate fr nur 4,99 Euro/Monat* http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Coolant temp and NPG+ |
| From: | Grant Corriveau <grantc(at)ca.inter.net> |
Mike,
If you go to the Rotax website, you'll find the entire Directive straight
from the manufacturer. As I recall it IS a requirement for some models of
Rotax and optional on others, as you say.
Personally, I'm trying to find out if there's any 'cons' to switching to the
NPG+ (besides perhaps the cost. All I can see are 'pros' ... The only time
I've had coolant temp issues with the 50/50 is when I've operated on
extremely hot days (30C+), doing touch and goes or long taxiis or short
turn-arounds between flights. With the NPG+ these issues should be
completely resolved. I think it would be a very liberating operation to
have the coolant temps running around 200-220, knowing that the limit with
respect to the actual CHT/metal of the engine is significantly higher. As
we all know, the 220 limit with 50/50 coolant is not so much the engine
itself, but rather to avoid the liquid from boiling inside the engine (in
hot localized spots especially), and causing damage.
For those who've mentioned the 'pancakes cooking' smell ... did that
disappear after a while or is it permanent?
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
> I've had some concerns about this as well, especially since I just bought
> a new 912S that had a label on the reservoir saying not to use any water
> in the system and to use only the Evans coolant. Phil Lockwood told me 3
> weeks ago that either 50/50 or Evans could be used, so to confirm I called
> him back today. He told me that it wasn't a warranty issue and that either
> could be used. The main thing to watch out for is that with 50/50, the
> temperature should not exceed 248f.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Pagan <pdn8r(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello All,
Been lurking for a while and considering a 701. I've
previously built an RV-8A you can see here
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
Was interested in the real cost of getting the plane
airborne. The RV with a basic VFR panel and O-320
Lycoming, Senseich fixed pitch prop came in at about
$48K including tools (about $3K). Any input on what
it's actually costing would be greatly appreciated.
I'm looking at a basic VFR plane with the Rotax 100
hp.
Bill
__________________________________
http://farechase.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john butterfield <jdbutterfield(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 11/14/05 |
hi list
My questions about the installation of the auto pilot
servo's is for the 601 XL, thanks
john butterfield
--- Zenith-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be
> found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes
> the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the
> plain ASCII version
> of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a
> generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2005-11-14.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2005-11-14.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
>
>
> Zenith-List Digest
> Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Mon
> 11/14/05: 17
>
>
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 12:00 AM - Re: Rotax 912S coolant temps
> (Richard McLachlan)
> 2. 12:14 AM - Comments... (Matt Dralle)
> 3. 12:23 AM - Coolant temp and NPG+ (Grant
> Corriveau)
> 4. 04:28 AM - Re: Coolant temp and NPG+
> (Trevor Page)
> 5. 05:56 AM - Re: Fuselage access door (Rodney
> Mills)
> 6. 06:32 AM - Little solid rivets PLUS I'm back
> to work onn N601WR (Gig Giacona)
> 7. 07:07 AM - Re: any form blocks for sale?
> (Larry McFarland)
> 8. 07:15 AM - Announcement: Zenair 601XL
> Private Pilot Course (jim)
> 9. 07:45 AM - Re: Little solid rivets PLUS I'm
> back to work onn N601WR (Rick)
> 10. 11:45 AM - auto pilot servo placements
> (john butterfield)
> 11. 11:57 AM - Custom cowl and radiator
> combination (Ron &Phyliss)
> 12. 12:46 PM - Re: auto pilot servo placements
> (Mike Fothergill)
> 13. 01:04 PM - Re: auto pilot servo placements
> (Craig Payne)
> 14. 04:22 PM - Re: Coolant temp and NPG+ (Mike
> Sinclair)
> 15. 05:34 PM - Re: auto pilot servo placements
> (Mike Fothergill)
> 16. 07:00 PM - Primingarchermj(at)swbell.net (Matt
> & Jo)
> 17. 07:36 PM - any ch701 form blocks for sale
> (Evan Lewis)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Richard McLachlan" <richard(at)rodsley.net>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912S coolant temps
>
> McLachlan"
>
> Mine runs from a minimum after warm up of approx 80
> deg C on a long descent
> to a max of 115 deg C on a climb on a hot day. We
> use 50% water glycol mix.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MElrod3732(at)aol.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax 912S coolant temps
>
>
> MElrod3732(at)aol.com
> >
> > Hello fellow builders: I am starting to program my
> Grand Rapids EIS for my
> > Rotax 912S and was wondering what temperature
> range to use for the
> coolant.
> > To my amazement, the Rotax operators manual does
> not even give a max temp
> for
> > the coolant.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Mike Elrod 701 95% complete
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Comments...
>
>
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> I'd like say thank you to everyone that has already
> made a Contribution during
> this year's List Fund Raiser! If you haven't made
> your List Contribution yet,
> please show your support for these valuable
> services. Since there's no advertising
> or other forms of direct commercialism on these
> forums, its solely YOUR
> GENEROSITY that keeps them running!!
>
> Members have continued to include some very nice
> comments along with their Contributions
> this year. Please take a minute to read over some
> of the thoughts your
> fellow Listers have expressed regarding the Lists
> and what they mean to them.
> What do the Lists mean to you...?
>
> Please make a Contribution to support the Lists
> here:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> Thank you!
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Admin
>
>
> ==================== What Listers Are Saying - Vol
> II ====================
>
> The best investment I make all year!
> Owen B.
>
> This service is an amazing tool for the builder. I
> can
> ask a question and have 2,3 or more answers or
> suggestions,
> sometimes within minutes!
> Wallace H.
>
> Well worth it
> Jeff H.
>
> ...connecting all these nice people from all over
> the
> world, who share the same passion: Building and
> flying
> aircraft.
> Johann G.
>
> Did get a lot of info and tips by just reading the
> messages...
> Henkjan V.
>
> Great complement to my "Full Time" effort building.
> Paul M.
>
>
=== message truncated ===
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 11/14/05 |
You might want to take a look at:
http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/documents/ZodiacPitchandRoll.pdf
A different vendor, but I'm sure there's not much difference in the
servos...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of john
butterfield
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 11/14/05
hi list
My questions about the installation of the auto pilot
servo's is for the 601 XL, thanks
john butterfield
--- Zenith-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be
> found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes
> the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the
> plain ASCII version
> of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a
> generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2005-11-14.ht
ml
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2005-11-14.tx
t
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Zenith-List Digest
> Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Mon
> 11/14/05: 17
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 12:00 AM - Re: Rotax 912S coolant temps
> (Richard McLachlan)
> 2. 12:14 AM - Comments... (Matt Dralle)
> 3. 12:23 AM - Coolant temp and NPG+ (Grant
> Corriveau)
> 4. 04:28 AM - Re: Coolant temp and NPG+
> (Trevor Page)
> 5. 05:56 AM - Re: Fuselage access door (Rodney
> Mills)
> 6. 06:32 AM - Little solid rivets PLUS I'm back
> to work onn N601WR (Gig Giacona)
> 7. 07:07 AM - Re: any form blocks for sale?
> (Larry McFarland)
> 8. 07:15 AM - Announcement: Zenair 601XL
> Private Pilot Course (jim)
> 9. 07:45 AM - Re: Little solid rivets PLUS I'm
> back to work onn N601WR (Rick)
> 10. 11:45 AM - auto pilot servo placements
> (john butterfield)
> 11. 11:57 AM - Custom cowl and radiator
> combination (Ron &Phyliss)
> 12. 12:46 PM - Re: auto pilot servo placements
> (Mike Fothergill)
> 13. 01:04 PM - Re: auto pilot servo placements
> (Craig Payne)
> 14. 04:22 PM - Re: Coolant temp and NPG+ (Mike
> Sinclair)
> 15. 05:34 PM - Re: auto pilot servo placements
> (Mike Fothergill)
> 16. 07:00 PM - Primingarchermj(at)swbell.net (Matt
> & Jo)
> 17. 07:36 PM - any ch701 form blocks for sale
> (Evan Lewis)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Richard McLachlan" <richard(at)rodsley.net>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912S coolant temps
>
> McLachlan"
>
> Mine runs from a minimum after warm up of approx 80
> deg C on a long descent
> to a max of 115 deg C on a climb on a hot day. We
> use 50% water glycol mix.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MElrod3732(at)aol.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax 912S coolant temps
>
>
> MElrod3732(at)aol.com
> >
> > Hello fellow builders: I am starting to program my
> Grand Rapids EIS for my
> > Rotax 912S and was wondering what temperature
> range to use for the
> coolant.
> > To my amazement, the Rotax operators manual does
> not even give a max temp
> for
> > the coolant.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Mike Elrod 701 95% complete
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Comments...
>
>
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> I'd like say thank you to everyone that has already
> made a Contribution during
> this year's List Fund Raiser! If you haven't made
> your List Contribution yet,
> please show your support for these valuable
> services. Since there's no advertising
> or other forms of direct commercialism on these
> forums, its solely YOUR
> GENEROSITY that keeps them running!!
>
> Members have continued to include some very nice
> comments along with their Contributions
> this year. Please take a minute to read over some
> of the thoughts your
> fellow Listers have expressed regarding the Lists
> and what they mean to them.
> What do the Lists mean to you...?
>
> Please make a Contribution to support the Lists
> here:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> Thank you!
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Admin
>
>
> ==================== What Listers Are Saying - Vol
> II ====================
>
> The best investment I make all year!
> Owen B.
>
> This service is an amazing tool for the builder. I
> can
> ask a question and have 2,3 or more answers or
> suggestions,
> sometimes within minutes!
> Wallace H.
>
> Well worth it
> Jeff H.
>
> ...connecting all these nice people from all over
> the
> world, who share the same passion: Building and
> flying
> aircraft.
> Johann G.
>
> Did get a lot of info and tips by just reading the
> messages...
> Henkjan V.
>
> Great complement to my "Full Time" effort building.
> Paul M.
>
>
=== message truncated ===
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Perkins" <Timothy.Perkins(at)uvm.edu> |
Has anyone tried or heard anything about the 912Xtra piston kit
http://www.craftworks.biz/pistonsite/ or the pistons being offered by Rotax
King? http://www.rotaxking.com/ ?
Tim Perkins
________________________________________________________________________________
Bill,
That is/was an awesome looking RV8.
You are doing the opposite of what I want to do that is finish the 701 and
then build an RV8.
The costs:
Rudder workshop- $300 not including travel and hotel. But you get the rudder
out of this deal
and some building experience( which you will
probably not need).
Complete Kit , Firewall fwd, options- 20,000
Options: aux tanks, electric trim, nav/strobe, cabin
heat, and I ordered
some clecoes and the riveters at
this time, instrument pkg.
Rotax 912- 12,000
Alodine, Z Chromate, nutplates and hardware not included, paints, wire and
electrical accesories, uhmw plastics-1500
mistake parts-300
dynon d10, gtx327, icomA200, intercom, grt eis, skyshop interior, ray allen
grips-$$$$$
I'm probably in 35,000 and not finished yet not including the last items.
Don't get me wrong, this can be done cheaper!!! I just got a little carried
away.
Brian
Long Island, NY
_http://tinyurl.com/8xtqq_ (http://tinyurl.com/8xtqq)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair(at)ATT.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: Coolant temp and NPG+ |
Grant
Thanks for the input. I did a little reading on the website and found this in
section 11.6 of the 912S install PDF, "Depending on the installation conditions,
conventional coolants can also be used. The provision of proof about the max.
reachable head temperature and thus the coolant to be used is the responsibility
of the airplane manufacturer". The warning sticker provided with the engine is
to be affixed to the expansion tank cap if it is determined that the Evans
coolant is to be used. Since per the manual the max. oil temperature is 266F
(130C), it seems to me that the 300F+ boiling point of the Evans coolant is
somewhat besides the point, because if your water temp reaches that range, you
have probably also exceeded the max temp of the oil. So I guess for now I'm
going to try going with the new oil cooler (which correspondingly should also
help keep the coolant cooler) and the 50/50 coolant and hopefully I can get my
temps fairly close to what I was getting with the 912UL. By the way, Phil
Lockwood also recommended using Havoline Dexcool and said that is what they are
using in their engines. Will see how it goes early next year.
Mike Sinclair N701TD
>
> If you go to the Rotax website, you'll find the entire Directive straight
> from the manufacturer. As I recall it IS a requirement for some models of
> Rotax and optional on others, as you say.
>
> Personally, I'm trying to find out if there's any 'cons' to switching to the
> NPG+ (besides perhaps the cost. All I can see are 'pros' ... The only time
> I've had coolant temp issues with the 50/50 is when I've operated on
> extremely hot days (30C+), doing touch and goes or long taxiis or short
> turn-arounds between flights. With the NPG+ these issues should be
> completely resolved. I think it would be a very liberating operation to
> have the coolant temps running around 200-220, knowing that the limit with
> respect to the actual CHT/metal of the engine is significantly higher. As
> we all know, the 220 limit with 50/50 coolant is not so much the engine
> itself, but rather to avoid the liquid from boiling inside the engine (in
> hot localized spots especially), and causing damage.
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
> > I've had some concerns about this as well, especially since I just bought
> > a new 912S that had a label on the reservoir saying not to use any water
> > in the system and to use only the Evans coolant. Phil Lockwood told me 3
> > weeks ago that either 50/50 or Evans could be used, so to confirm I called
> > him back today. He told me that it wasn't a warranty issue and that either
> > could be used. The main thing to watch out for is that with 50/50, the
> > temperature should not exceed 248f.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johann G." <johann(at)gi.is> |
Hello Tim and list members.
This upgrade kit for the Rotax 912 UL is very interesting. I do not see
any use for this extra hp for my plane, but I was curious to see how the
upgrade was performed and opened up the link to the installation manual.
When I saw the picture of the heads on picture # three under instruction 7.
http://www.craftworks.biz/pistonsite/6318.htm
I was very surprised to see the cap nuts on the heads on the outside of
the valve cover. i.e. on the top.
This is exactly how the nuts were installed on my engine and yet I had
experianced an oil leak through the lower standard nuts on the inside of
the valve covers. Does this mean that this is the correct way to bolt
the heads on?
Is my engine any different than the standard 912 UL engine? Why did my
engine leak and not the engine on the picture?
Can anyone explain this to me?
Thank you,
Johann G.
Tim Perkins wrote:
>
>Has anyone tried or heard anything about the 912Xtra piston kit
>http://www.craftworks.biz/pistonsite/ or the pistons being offered by Rotax
>King? http://www.rotaxking.com/ ?
>
>Tim Perkins
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | First Flight of N3577H |
| From: | "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman(at)atk.com> |
On behalf of the builder, I'm pleased to announce the
maiden flight of N3577H, a scratch-build HD created by Mr.
Ray Huffman of Kansas City.
Tio Ricardito
Please tell Mr. Huffman I said " Good job!!". The Flying Miata
with the "Junkyard Engine" finally is airborne!! Paint 'er Red and let's get high!!!
Congratulations, Ray!!
Rick Beckman
Zodie Rocket
XL
Soon to
be: 52EB
from: Midwest Mudworks
729 MSL
and sinking
www.sharbo.us/thebird
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <momanpop(at)marshallnet.com> |
| Subject: | EA-81 MOTOR MOUNT |
I have a Reductions Conversions motor mount for my EA-81 Subaru with no instruction's
and it appears that something is missing. Does anyone have close-up
pictures or instructions to share?
Thanks
Bob Tichy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com> |
Have just checked My New 914 and the conventional cylinder head nuts are
outside the rocker boxes with the cap nuts inside,
Ivor Phillips
Europa XS
> I was very surprised to see the cap nuts on the heads on the outside of
> the valve cover. i.e. on the top.
> This is exactly how the nuts were installed on my engine and yet I had
> experianced an oil leak through the lower standard nuts on the inside of
> the valve covers. Does this mean that this is the correct way to bolt
> the heads on?
> Is my engine any different than the standard 912 UL engine? Why did my
> engine leak and not the engine on the picture?
> Can anyone explain this to me?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JERICKSON03E(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 11/15/2005 3:14:21 PM Central Standard Time, johann(at)gi.is
writes:
This is exactly how the nuts were installed on my engine and yet I had
experianced an oil leak through the lower standard nuts on the inside of
the valve covers. Does this mean that this is the correct way to bolt
the heads on?
Is my engine any different than the standard 912 UL engine? Why did my
engine leak and not the engine on the picture?
Can anyone explain this to me?
Johann,
My guess is that if the non cap nuts are on the inside, the leak path is
there.
But, they might have used cap nuts at all sixteen places,, or,, they might
have used locktite to seal the threads. The assy shows oil to lubricate the nut
to stud.
We do not know if the engine in the picture leaks or not.
If the cap nuts are incorrectly installed, a QC review of the assembly would
be useful.
Happy flying.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | auto pilot servo placements |
John,
I have a Trutrak Digitrak (single axis). Its GREAT. Installation was
really quick & easy. Unfortunately I don't have a pic in my log (wierd
- thought I did!).
I mounted it behind the passenger seat, aft of the control horn, similar
to the trutrak instructions here:
http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/documents/ZodiacPitchandRoll.pdf
Wiring went along the left side of the fuse, under the top longeron.
Controller mounted on the bottom left of the panel:
http://wls1.lancegingell.com/largeplaneimages/DSC06352.JPG
In general I've heard great things about TruTrak, and I got to play with
one first. I'm happy I went with it.
Hope this helps,
..lance
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
601XL/Jabiru 3300/Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fred sanford <sonar1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Painting bubble doors |
I thought it would look better to paint the bottom half of the bubble
doors on the 701 - look more like a regular airplane.
Thank goodness I got talked out of it!
I'm spending all of my time in the air looking through the bottom half
of the doors!
If anyone else was so inclined - to paint the door - I highly recommend
against it.........
Fred Sanford N9701 14 hours and enjoying every minute.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Stabilizer Tips |
I flew my 601 for three years without the tips. Then I realized that the
a/c was not stable in pitch, so I added 4 inches extra to each side of the
hor. stab. Worked great. The nose started to come up if I let go of the
stick in a dive. Good quality to have.
Then ZAC made the stab tips available. Put them on instead of my home made
extensions. Voila.. the nose still comes up!
For what it's worth.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry McFarland <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Stabilizer Tips |
Debo,
I did my own tips and was satisfied with the results. It's not a hard
thing to do, but takes a little time making forms.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/wing/wingtips/full/left-wing-tip-&-light-mount.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly1/wingtocentersection/full/wwcalignment2.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/wing/wingtips/full/wing-tip-form-in-fiberglass.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601frontleftwpants.gif
You can find more pictures within the pages identified by the links above.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Debo Cox wrote:
> Can anyone point me to some pictures of someone who's done this? If it's just
plain ugly, I'll stick 'em on there, but I'm also curious if they provide
any real aerodynamic fairing i.e. less drag. I guess my question is are they
all show, or do they help go? Thanks in advance.
>
> Debo Cox
> 0.01% Complete
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Swinford" <grs-pms(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Zodiac stabilizer tips |
My 601 HD drawings did not show the stab tips, and the kit did not include them.
I bought them after the stab was finished.
I secured a long sheet of sandpaper to a flat surface and sanded the open edge
of the fiberglass tips to obtain a flat true surface. I formed strips of the
standard .025 angle to the contour of the elevator and riveted those strips to
the end ribs, setting them inside contour to account for the thickness of the
fiberglass tip. I then drilled the tip and the contoured angles for A4 pop
rivets. The partial rib at the tail came with the kit, but it would be easy to
fabricate from a scrap of .016 aluminum. The nose contour of the fairing didn't
quite match the nose of my stab, but it was easy enough to reshape the fairing
with a plywood form and a heat gun. My tips fit well and look like original
equipment.
I hope this helps anyone considering a retrofit. I'm not flying yet, so I can't
speak to performance and stability issues.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jim" <jim(at)pellien.com> |
| Subject: | Popular Mechanics Article on SP and LSA |
Suggest that you take a look at an excellent article that was in Popular Mechanics
Magazine (Nov 05 issue):
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/aviation/1959137.html
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim(at)sportsplanes.com
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john butterfield <jdbutterfield(at)yahoo.com> |
hi list.
back again for advise, thanks to those who responded
to my auto pilot question
now i am deciding on the comm radio. i want only comm
and not a vor setup
The icom and the austrailian radio's seem to be the
best option re price, performance, and size.
has anyone used either and how is the built in
intercom system, also general info and/or suggestions
would be helpful. The ability to monitor a second
freq. also seems like a nice feature.
thanks in advance
john butterfield
601XL/corvair
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Monitoring a second freq is a nice feature, specifically when flying
through contoleed airspace where you are handed from one controller to
the next.
I have used the ICOM A200 for six years and its been totally reliable
and easy to use radio.
It does not of course give you the abilty to monitor two freq's
simultaneously. I don't know of any single radio that will do that...I.e
you need two radios and an intercom panel that has the switching
function built in. These seem to be more aimed at the IFR market and
cost accordingly.
I used a simple external intercom on the advice of my avionics supplier
so I don't know how well it works.
My IFR based RV7 will have a non certified ICOM as my backup comm radio
Highly recommended unit.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of john
butterfield
Subject: Zenith-List: comm radio's
-->
hi list.
back again for advise, thanks to those who responded to my auto pilot
question
now i am deciding on the comm radio. i want only comm and not a vor
setup
The icom and the austrailian radio's seem to be the best option re
price, performance, and size.
has anyone used either and how is the built in intercom system, also
general info and/or suggestions would be helpful. The ability to monitor
a second freq. also seems like a nice feature.
thanks in advance
john butterfield
601XL/corvair
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
The Garmin SL40 & XCOM760 Coms both allow you to monitor two frequencies, as
does the Garmin SL30 Nav/Com and the Garmin GNS 480 Nav/Com/GPS...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: comm radio's
Monitoring a second freq is a nice feature, specifically when flying
through contoleed airspace where you are handed from one controller to
the next.
I have used the ICOM A200 for six years and its been totally reliable
and easy to use radio.
It does not of course give you the abilty to monitor two freq's
simultaneously. I don't know of any single radio that will do that...I.e
you need two radios and an intercom panel that has the switching
function built in. These seem to be more aimed at the IFR market and
cost accordingly.
I used a simple external intercom on the advice of my avionics supplier
so I don't know how well it works.
My IFR based RV7 will have a non certified ICOM as my backup comm radio
Highly recommended unit.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of john
butterfield
Subject: Zenith-List: comm radio's
-->
hi list.
back again for advise, thanks to those who responded to my auto pilot
question
now i am deciding on the comm radio. i want only comm and not a vor
setup
The icom and the austrailian radio's seem to be the best option re
price, performance, and size.
has anyone used either and how is the built in intercom system, also
general info and/or suggestions would be helpful. The ability to monitor
a second freq. also seems like a nice feature.
thanks in advance
john butterfield
601XL/corvair
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: comm radio's |
The Xcom radio does at a very attractive price,
http://www.mcp.com.au/xcom760/
Regards
Ivor Phillips
XS Europa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: comm radio's
>
>
> Monitoring a second freq is a nice feature, specifically when flying
> through contoleed airspace where you are handed from one controller to
> the next.
>
> I have used the ICOM A200 for six years and its been totally reliable
> and easy to use radio.
>
> It does not of course give you the abilty to monitor two freq's
> simultaneously. I don't know of any single radio that will do that...I.e
> you need two radios and an intercom panel that has the switching
> function built in. These seem to be more aimed at the IFR market and
> cost accordingly.
>
> I used a simple external intercom on the advice of my avionics supplier
> so I don't know how well it works.
>
> My IFR based RV7 will have a non certified ICOM as my backup comm radio
>
> Highly recommended unit.
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of john
> butterfield
> To: zenith-list-digest(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: comm radio's
>
> -->
>
> hi list.
>
> back again for advise, thanks to those who responded to my auto pilot
> question
>
> now i am deciding on the comm radio. i want only comm and not a vor
> setup
>
> The icom and the austrailian radio's seem to be the best option re
> price, performance, and size.
>
> has anyone used either and how is the built in intercom system, also
> general info and/or suggestions would be helpful. The ability to monitor
> a second freq. also seems like a nice feature.
>
> thanks in advance
>
> john butterfield
> 601XL/corvair
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
But does the radio itself do this or is that because the radio is wired
thru the intercom panel?
All of these radios are Nav/coms also, does a simple Com radio have this
functionality?
Frnk
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Denton
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: comm radio's
The Garmin SL40 & XCOM760 Coms both allow you to monitor two
frequencies, as does the Garmin SL30 Nav/Com and the Garmin GNS 480
Nav/Com/GPS...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: comm radio's
Monitoring a second freq is a nice feature, specifically when flying
through contoleed airspace where you are handed from one controller to
the next.
I have used the ICOM A200 for six years and its been totally reliable
and easy to use radio.
It does not of course give you the abilty to monitor two freq's
simultaneously. I don't know of any single radio that will do that...I.e
you need two radios and an intercom panel that has the switching
function built in. These seem to be more aimed at the IFR market and
cost accordingly.
I used a simple external intercom on the advice of my avionics supplier
so I don't know how well it works.
My IFR based RV7 will have a non certified ICOM as my backup comm radio
Highly recommended unit.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of john
butterfield
Subject: Zenith-List: comm radio's
-->
hi list.
back again for advise, thanks to those who responded to my auto pilot
question
now i am deciding on the comm radio. i want only comm and not a vor
setup
The icom and the austrailian radio's seem to be the best option re
price, performance, and size.
has anyone used either and how is the built in intercom system, also
general info and/or suggestions would be helpful. The ability to monitor
a second freq. also seems like a nice feature.
thanks in advance
john butterfield
601XL/corvair
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jim" <jim(at)pellien.com> |
| Subject: | Re: comm radio's |
You may want to consider the Garmin GNC-250 which gives you comm and a VFR GPS.
Pretty good prices on these.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim(at)sportsplanes.com
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: john butterfield <jdbutterfield(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:05:03 -0800 (PST)
>
>hi list.
>
>back again for advise, thanks to those who responded
>to my auto pilot question
>
>now i am deciding on the comm radio. i want only comm
>and not a vor setup
>
>The icom and the austrailian radio's seem to be the
>best option re price, performance, and size.
>
>has anyone used either and how is the built in
>intercom system, also general info and/or suggestions
>would be helpful. The ability to monitor a second
>freq. also seems like a nice feature.
>
>thanks in advance
>
>john butterfield
>601XL/corvair
>
>
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
As I originally noted: "Garmin SL40 & XCOM760 COMS". These two are Com only
units, the others are as I noted.
And with all of the radios I referenced, the "Monitor" (Garmin) or "Dual
Watch" (XCOM) is built in to the radio. And since both radios have built-in
intercoms, you can monitor both channels even without an audio panel or
external intercom.
Go to the respective web sites and download the User's Manual, they both
explain the process quite well...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: comm radio's
But does the radio itself do this or is that because the radio is wired
thru the intercom panel?
All of these radios are Nav/coms also, does a simple Com radio have this
functionality?
Frnk
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Denton
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: comm radio's
The Garmin SL40 & XCOM760 Coms both allow you to monitor two
frequencies, as does the Garmin SL30 Nav/Com and the Garmin GNS 480
Nav/Com/GPS...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: comm radio's
Monitoring a second freq is a nice feature, specifically when flying
through contoleed airspace where you are handed from one controller to
the next.
I have used the ICOM A200 for six years and its been totally reliable
and easy to use radio.
It does not of course give you the abilty to monitor two freq's
simultaneously. I don't know of any single radio that will do that...I.e
you need two radios and an intercom panel that has the switching
function built in. These seem to be more aimed at the IFR market and
cost accordingly.
I used a simple external intercom on the advice of my avionics supplier
so I don't know how well it works.
My IFR based RV7 will have a non certified ICOM as my backup comm radio
Highly recommended unit.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of john
butterfield
Subject: Zenith-List: comm radio's
-->
hi list.
back again for advise, thanks to those who responded to my auto pilot
question
now i am deciding on the comm radio. i want only comm and not a vor
setup
The icom and the austrailian radio's seem to be the best option re
price, performance, and size.
has anyone used either and how is the built in intercom system, also
general info and/or suggestions would be helpful. The ability to monitor
a second freq. also seems like a nice feature.
thanks in advance
john butterfield
601XL/corvair
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net> |
I have been looking at the A-200 also. How well does the internal intercom
work?
-
From: "Zed Smith" <zsmith3rd(at)earthlink.net>
>
> The A-200 is a good choice. The printed sheets included with unit are
> self-explanatory....if you can install a car stereo you can do this unit.
> Works well, not hindered by whistles & bells.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick R <n701rr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: comm radio's |
Without sounding like a commercial, I opted for the VAL COMM 760:
Height: 1.40 in (3.56 cm)
Width: 6.25 in (15.88 cm)
Depth: 12.50 in (31.75 cm)
Weight: 3.0 lbs (1.36 kg
Power Output: 8 Watts Carrier, 50 Ohm load
Sidetone: Adjustable up to 50 mw into 600 Ohm load
Sale price: 675.00
When "A Chopper is Born" was on, they were using the VAL 760 in the trainer Mark
was using. Above all, I could see the large display even on TV! At 52 years
old, my eyes ain't what they used to be and I ordered one right then and there....
http://valavionics.com/valavionicscgi/store/VALstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=VAL_COM_760
Rick
Orlando, FL. USA
http://www.n701rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William J. Naumuk" <billn(at)velocity.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Stabilizer Tips |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc(at)qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fiberglass Stabilizer Tips
>
> Debo,
> I did my own tips and was satisfied with the results. It's not a hard
> thing to do, but takes a little time making forms.
> Debo,
My advice is not to do anything irreversable for a while. If you turn
into an OCB (Obsessive Compulsive Builder) like I have over the years,
you'll have made more work for yourself. If you're just working on the stab,
there's plenty of plane to go.
That said, for some inexplicable reason Zenith wants nearly $90 a side
for the the stab tips, but only $30 for wing tips ribs, which in my
estimation are much more complex. For $30 I'll let them do it. For $90,
even though I detest working with fiberglass, I'd give it a shot myself.
Up to you, bud.
Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Popular Mechanics Article on SP and LSA |
Thanks Jim . . . I saw this article in the bookstore and read it. Good
article. Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: "jim" <jim(at)pellien.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Popular Mechanics Article on SP and LSA
>
> Suggest that you take a look at an excellent article that was in Popular
> Mechanics Magazine (Nov 05 issue):
>
> http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/aviation/1959137.html
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Pellien
> Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
> www.MASPL.com
> 703-313-4818
> jim(at)sportsplanes.com
>
>
> Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim and Lucy <jpollard(at)ciaccess.com> |
| Subject: | EA-81 MOTOR MOUNT |
Hi Bob
My friend has a reductions unit on his zodiac in my hangar.
I could take some pics of the top view if it would help.
His cowling opens at the top on hinges. It would not be so
easy to get the rest of the cowl off especially since he is
out of the country now.
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <momanpop(at)marshallnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EA-81 MOTOR MOUNT |
Hi:
The pics would be a great help. I think I have something missing on the top
end.
Thank you very much.
Bob Tichy
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim and Lucy
Subject: Zenith-List: EA-81 MOTOR MOUNT
Hi Bob
My friend has a reductions unit on his zodiac in my hangar.
I could take some pics of the top view if it would help.
His cowling opens at the top on hinges. It would not be so
easy to get the rest of the cowl off especially since he is
out of the country now.
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com> |
Does anyone have drawings for a motor mount for the Corvair engine and the 601XL
to supplement the drawings in the WW manual. He gives a pretty good drawing
of the bed mount but not much on the dimensions to the firewall.
Blue Skies
Bob Unternaehrer
shilocom(at)mcmsys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johann G." <johann(at)gi.is> |
| Subject: | Re: comm radio's |
Hi John.
My setup is a Microair radio but opted for a separate intercom from PM
1000. It is a good intercom, but the wireing is still a problem for me,
because when I want to transmit to ATC, I need to turn off the intercom
to make the PTT to work. It has not bothered me that much, have had
other problems to solve (oil leak :-) ) but will try to solve that minor
problem soon.
Other than that, I am very happy with both equipment.
Regards,
Johann G.
Iceland.
www.gi.is/fis
john butterfield wrote:
>
>hi list.
>
>back again for advise, thanks to those who responded
>to my auto pilot question
>
>now i am deciding on the comm radio. i want only comm
>and not a vor setup
>
>The icom and the austrailian radio's seem to be the
>best option re price, performance, and size.
>
>has anyone used either and how is the built in
>intercom system, also general info and/or suggestions
>would be helpful. The ability to monitor a second
>freq. also seems like a nice feature.
>
>thanks in advance
>
>john butterfield
>601XL/corvair
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "neitzel" <n963wb(at)frontiernet.net> |
Greetings all
Snow has finally blanketed Northern Wisconsin so my heated shop sure feels good!
Started a wing for my 701 and was searching for a good support material when
the wing gets turned over. Wood is ok but sometimes is hard to find six pieces
forty inches long that are all straight. I had some 10 foot lengths of PVC
down spout left over and found them to be a superior support. All the same
size, straight and very light weight. I put two strips of double stick tape on
one side and attached some scrap carpet to avoid scratching. I have noticed
that the carpet is a magnet for aluminum filings so might not be the best choice
of material, might have to change that.
So far the building is going well. Should be done with right wing in a few days.
Left wing should go faster as I have all the jigs made up and know what to
expect.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
Dick Neitzel
Sayner, WI
701 Jabiru 2200
N962WB (I hope, first choice)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing support |
> If you laminate some wood strips they might remain
in a staight
> line or otherwise run them through a table saw. I
got started
> on wings too. I got the lightning holes cut. Did
them with a
> circle cutter. I am working on a flanging tool to
fit in a
> drill press. The way it works is as you press down
on the
> device it bends the inside of the hole and makes
desired angle.
> Its a simple device and doesn't cost much to make. I
hope to
> have a pic of it soon. PS. got to see if it really
works.
--- neitzel wrote:
>
>
> Greetings all
>
> Snow has finally blanketed Northern Wisconsin so my
> heated shop sure feels good! Started a wing for my
> 701 and was searching for a good support material
> when the wing gets turned over. Wood is ok but
> sometimes is hard to find six pieces forty inches
> long that are all straight. I had some 10 foot
> lengths of PVC down spout left over and found them
> to be a superior support. All the same size,
> straight and very light weight. I put two strips of
> double stick tape on one side and attached some
> scrap carpet to avoid scratching. I have noticed
> that the carpet is a magnet for aluminum filings so
> might not be the best choice of material, might have
> to change that.
>
> So far the building is going well. Should be done
> with right wing in a few days. Left wing should go
> faster as I have all the jigs made up and know what
> to expect.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving to all.
>
> Dick Neitzel
> Sayner, WI
> 701 Jabiru 2200
> N962WB (I hope, first choice)
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://farechase.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | Zenith leather seats for 601XL |
Has anyone purchased and received the Zenith leather seats? If so what do
you think of them. And here is a long shot: does anyone have the seats and
the dual sticks option? I'm wondering if the sticks clear the forward edge
of the seats.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lowell Metz" <lowellmetz(at)earthlink.net> |
I now have about 110 hours on my 701 with the 912UL/S and it is time to put
it up for sale and start building again. Yup, I'm one of those that likes to
build more than fly although the 701 is a real hoot. So if there is someone
out there that would rater fly than build, we just might be able to compliment
one another. I live in south west Florida. I'm advertising the plane for just
about what I have in parts and materials so all 1,200 hours of labor is free.
Email me for all of the particulars if you want to get into the air quickly.
lowellmetz(at)earthlink.net
Lowell Metz
941-493-9460
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Gibfried" <rfg842(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Good deal on rivets |
Thought I'd pass on a good source for rivets. Midwest Fastener Supply.,
Mulvane, Kansas. Furnishes fasteners to most of the local, Wichita
aircraft manufacturers. I've found that their rivets are from 2 to 4 cents
cheaper than Wicks or Aircraft Spruce per rivet. Five dollar minimum order
and fast service. Email Ana at www.midwestfastener.com for a quote.
Bob, Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William J. Naumuk" <billn(at)velocity.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Good deal on rivets |
This is the kind of posting I like to see!
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Gibfried" <rfg842(at)cox.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
>
> Thought I'd pass on a good source for rivets. Midwest Fastener Supply.,
> Mulvane, Kansas. Furnishes fasteners to most of the local, Wichita
> aircraft manufacturers. I've found that their rivets are from 2 to 4
cents
> cheaper than Wicks or Aircraft Spruce per rivet. Five dollar minimum
order
> and fast service. Email Ana at www.midwestfastener.com for a quote.
>
> Bob, Wichita
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tebenkof(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: comm radio's |
My choice was the X-com 760 for size, weight, two channel monitoring and
voice activated intercom (some of the included intercoms have hot mike which
might drive me nuttier than I am. ). But I have not used it yet, so cannot say
if it really works. It is a marvelously tiny piece of technology though.
Jim Greenough
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <PAULROD36(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Good deal on rivets |
Another good source I've discovered is B&B Aircraft Supply, in Gardner KS. They
sell for $4.95 per hundred.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
Still on the fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Gibfried<mailto:rfg842(at)cox.net>
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 9:14 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
Thought I'd pass on a good source for rivets. Midwest Fastener Supply.,
Mulvane, Kansas. Furnishes fasteners to most of the local, Wichita
aircraft manufacturers. I've found that their rivets are from 2 to 4 cents
cheaper than Wicks or Aircraft Spruce per rivet. Five dollar minimum order
and fast service. Email Ana at www.midwestfastener.com<http://www.midwestfastener.com/> for a quote.
Bob, Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lynn dingfelder" <ding(at)tbscc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 701 Builders Locator Map |
Mark,
I would be happy to sign up, but I thought it would be proper to
wait 'till my kit arrives. (Feb)
For now, I am building my Corvair.
Lynn
Corry, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1(at)mail.ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Good deal on rivets |
No web site but # is 913-884-5930, Dan is the man. LOW&SLOW John
>Paul, do they have a web site? Searched with no results.
>
>Jean-Paul
>DO NOT >
>>
>> Another good source I've discovered is B&B Aircraft Supply, in Gardner KS.
>They sell for $4.95 per hundred.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith leather seats for 601XL |
Craig, I have the duel controls in my XL, but I made my own seats. Yes, they
need a bit of a cut out between your knees for clearance. The thicker the seat
cushion the wider the cut. I have flown XLs, HD and HDS all with the center
yoke and my XL with the duels and the feel of the duels and the utility of
flying with either hand has got the yoke beat hands down, FWIW, best regards,
Bill N505WP 601XL-3300w/dc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William J. Naumuk" <billn(at)velocity.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Good deal on rivets |
Paul-
The most expensive A4 from ACS is 4.50/hundred, and long A5s are the
same price. Does B+B pay shipping, or am I missing something?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: <PAULROD36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
>
> Another good source I've discovered is B&B Aircraft Supply, in Gardner KS.
They sell for $4.95 per hundred.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> 601XL/Corvair
> Still on the fuselage
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Gibfried<mailto:rfg842(at)cox.net>
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 9:14 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
>
>
>
>
> Thought I'd pass on a good source for rivets. Midwest Fastener Supply.,
> Mulvane, Kansas. Furnishes fasteners to most of the local, Wichita
> aircraft manufacturers. I've found that their rivets are from 2 to 4
cents
> cheaper than Wicks or Aircraft Spruce per rivet. Five dollar minimum
order
> and fast service. Email Ana at
www.midwestfastener.com<http://www.midwestfastener.com/> for a quote.
>
> Bob, Wichita
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
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helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | Zenith leather seats for 601XL |
Thanks! I'm already sold on dual sticks and have the option kit from Zenith.
I need to retrofit it into the 80% done single-stick XL that I bought.
I'm just trying to figure out what to do about seats without having to learn
how to sew.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith leather seats for 601XL
Craig, I have the duel controls in my XL, but I made my own seats. Yes, they
need a bit of a cut out between your knees for clearance. The thicker the
seat cushion the wider the cut. I have flown XLs, HD and HDS all with the
center yoke and my XL with the duels and the feel of the duels and the
utility of flying with either hand has got the yoke beat hands down, FWIW,
best regards, Bill N505WP 601XL-3300w/dc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith leather seats for 601XL |
Craig, I formed my seats from fiberglass cloth on wax paper, bought cushions
from Spruce and used spray auto weather stip adhesive to attach, then trimed
edges. Then I took to local upholstery shop, selected fabric and had them
cover. All told, real nice seats for about $250. Bought extra material for making
side panels and trim. Still have that to do. On installing the duels you will
have to make a special tool to attach brackets to the center section, I will
be glad to send you a photo of the one I made, Best regards, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | doug kandle <d_kandle(at)velocitus.net> |
| Subject: | 701 Aux Fuel Tank issue/question |
I am installing the outboard, auxiliary, fuel tanks in my wings. The
front jury strut bracket (7V10-4SP) has a rivet that lies beneath the
outboard fuel tank. The rivet in question is 20 mm outboard of rib
#2 centerline and 35mm rear of the wing spar (plans page
7-V-10). This puts it under the fuel tank. I didn't rivet the
bracket to the wing when I did the other rivets in the wing bottom
because I didn't want to take the chance of bending that bracket when
I had to turn the wing over. It appears that I lucked out.
Has anyone else noticed that if you put this rivet in the bracket
from the outside, then there is a good chance that the rivet will
eventually put a hole in your fuel tank? At least to me this is what
it looks like will happen. The tank is only lifted above the bottom
skin by the thickness of the cork strip and the back side of the
rivet will certainly contact the tank.
Did I assemble something wrong? Am I imagining things? Or is this a
detail that perhaps should be noted in the instructions? I'm going
to set that rivet with the round head under the tank and the stem on
the outside of the wing.
Doug Kandle
CH701
Boise ID
Rudder & Horiz. Stab. done Working on Wings
From complete kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 701 Aux Fuel Tank issue/question |
Doug,
I called Zenith about this a 2 1/2years ago, I have the outboard tanks.They
had told me to move the jury strut bracket inboard so the other rivet line
lies above rib #2. This puts the rivet that would show up under the outboard
tank over rib #2 and the ones that would have been over rib # 2 under the
inboard tank. But the tank channel that attaches to rib #2 pushes the main tank
further inboard allowing it to clear the rivets. How much this changes the jury
strut geometry in reality is yet to be seen as I have not got the wings
attached yet. It looks like the jury strut length might be slightly longer. I
have
not seen any changes in plans on this so give them a call.
Here is a pic of my install.
Brian
Long Island, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 701 Aux Fuel Tank issue/question |
Doug,
Here is a pic of the Zenith demo. Notice the location of the jury strut
bracket.
It is similar to what I have done. I don't think that the demo has the new
aux tanks but you can see that the brackets are installed with the other rivet
line centered over rib #2. If it did
have the tanks the rivets would not intefere with the inboard or outboard.
Just another tip: if you are installing the aux tank with the provided
rubber fuel lines do not use the right angle nipple provided, use a straight
nipple on the finger screen. It eases installation quite a bit and if you put an
access panel under there it can be removed.
Sorry, the list will not get these pics.
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | 1776G First Flight |
Hello List,
This morning 1776G, my 801 project performed its first
flight! Despite a lengthy build (5 years, mostly due to personal
interruptions and illness) it is now airworthy. I will be flying off
the 40 hours before painting it, especially now that is too cold to
paint it until spring.
After a high speed taxi test, she took off easily and quickly climbed
to altitude. I did one pass over the field, and came around for a
second approach, and landed without incident. Controls performed
perfectly and it trimmed out easily. What a hoot!
I want to say thanks to the many friends who've helped me, especially
to Chris Heintz for a great design! The XP-360 engine is a great
piece of machinery, and I know I'm gonna have a blast with this thing!
Smile is now locked in permanent mode.
Gary Liming
pictured update later on website
www.liming.org/ch801
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1776G First Flight |
Congratulations Gary!! So glad you got the project finished. Hope you get
many years of enjoyment from your plane. Thanks for all the great info on your
website, don't forget to add some pics of the first flight.
Brian
Long Island
_http://tinyurl.com/8xtqq_ (http://tinyurl.com/8xtqq) _
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michael burkhardt <mjbavid(at)yahoo.com> |
Does anyone have a Ch701 with a 0-200, or knows
someone who has a CH 701 with a 0-200? I am new to
the list.
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <momanpop(at)marshallnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ch701 w/0 -200 |
I don't have an 701 but I do have an 0-200 for sale if you may be interested.
Welcome to the list.
Thanks
Bob Tichy
----- Original Message -----
From: michael burkhardt
Subject: Zenith-List: Ch701 w/0 -200
Does anyone have a Ch701 with a 0-200, or knows
someone who has a CH 701 with a 0-200? I am new to
the list.
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Faulkner" <tomtafcor(at)triton.net> |
| Subject: | 1776G First Flight |
Gary:
Congratulations! Your website helped me a lot while I was building and
I
have wondered how you are coming along. I am sure you will get a hoot out
of flying your 801, as I am.
Tom Faulkner
N801TP 38 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1776G First Flight |
Gary- Congratulations on your first flight!! I've been wondering when I'd
see your announcement. Hope you have an uneventful test period and lots of
great times in the 801.
Al Young 601XL- re-building
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Craze" <garycraze(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 1776G First Flight |
Congrats Gary !!
My 801 project languished for a while until I found your site. It
prompted me to finish up the tail and now the wings are under way.
Have fun and thanks for such an inspirational web site !!
Gary Craze,
801 Houston, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | First flight 1776G |
Gary
Congratulations! You just hit one of the high points in your life!
I have 2 items to pass on. Don't use flaps in a cross wind and it takes off quicker
and climbs faster with 10 degrees flaps.
What is your empty weight?
Enjoy flying your plane!
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
Valdez, Alaska
225 hrs
Installing larger tail
Installing Full Lotus floats
This morning 1776G, my 801 project performed its first
flight!
Smile is now locked in permanent mode.
Gary Liming
pictured update later on website
www.liming.org/ch801
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michael burkhardt <mjbavid(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ch701 w/0 -200 |
Bob, I am looking at one tuesday night, if I dont get
it. I will let you know. Thanks, Mike
--- momanpop(at)marshallnet.com wrote:
>
>
> I don't have an 701 but I do have an 0-200 for
> sale if you may be interested.
>
> Welcome to the list.
>
> Thanks
> Bob Tichy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: michael burkhardt
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Ch701 w/0 -200
>
>
>
>
> Does anyone have a Ch701 with a 0-200, or knows
> someone who has a CH 701 with a 0-200? I am new to
> the list.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://farechase.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
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by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
My XL kit is a third-hand, 80% complete project that dates from about 2000.
In looking at pictures of other XL's I see that the fuselage skins typically
extend about 2 inches forward from the firewall:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_21_05_Valve_Covers.JPG
William Wynne's XL appears to built the same way:
http://homepage.mac.com/csteiner/PhotoAlbum8.html, IMG_0648
In mine the skins stop flush with the firewall. Did the original builder of
my plane get it wrong, has the design changed or is this a customization by
some builders?
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
Craig:
I think you have a unique machine. It's not a
deal-breaker, but it may require some creative cowl
work.
The overhang is in my plans from 2003.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
--- Craig Payne wrote:
>
>
> My XL kit is a third-hand, 80% complete project that
> dates from about 2000.
> In looking at pictures of other XL's I see that the
> fuselage skins typically
> extend about 2 inches forward from the firewall:
>
>
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_21_05_Valve_Covers.JPG
>
> William Wynne's XL appears to built the same way:
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/csteiner/PhotoAlbum8.html,
> IMG_0648
>
> In mine the skins stop flush with the firewall. Did
> the original builder of
> my plane get it wrong, has the design changed or is
> this a customization by
> some builders?
>
> -- Craig
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
I just cut my skins in prep for the William Wynne style cowling for the
corvair. I cut them at 70 mm past the rivet line in the firewall. If you
lay out a couple of 70mm points with a pen and then connect the dots with
some masking tape you can make a nice smooth line.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey.
>From: N5SL <nfivesl(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall.
>Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:27:58 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>Craig:
>
>I think you have a unique machine. It's not a
>deal-breaker, but it may require some creative cowl
>work.
>
>The overhang is in my plans from 2003.
>
>Scott Laughlin
>www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
>--- Craig Payne wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > My XL kit is a third-hand, 80% complete project that
> > dates from about 2000.
> > In looking at pictures of other XL's I see that the
> > fuselage skins typically
> > extend about 2 inches forward from the firewall:
> >
> >
>http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_21_05_Valve_Covers.JPG
> >
> > William Wynne's XL appears to built the same way:
> >
> > http://homepage.mac.com/csteiner/PhotoAlbum8.html,
> > IMG_0648
> >
> > In mine the skins stop flush with the firewall. Did
> > the original builder of
> > my plane get it wrong, has the design changed or is
> > this a customization by
> > some builders?
> >
> > -- Craig
> >
> >
> >
> > Click on
> > about
> > provided
> > www.buildersbooks.com,
> > Admin.
> > _->
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
Craig, you may be correct. The earlier ZAC FWF kit had a double clam shell
cowl that fit under the side and top skins at the rear, while the Jabiru FWF
kit has it on the outside. I am not sure how the ZAC inside attached, but the
Jab cowl bottom has four tabs that extend from the side skins with nut plates
riveted for screws while the top cowl has two camlocs. If you used an overlap
cowl (Jab) you should have no problem making and riveting "L" shaped brackets to
the firewall to attack nut plates to just like skins. On the other hand with
the ZAC under lap you might have to make more radical mods to attach. FWIW,
Best regards and happy Thanksgiving, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | doug kandle <d_kandle(at)velocitus.net> |
I would like to seal up some of the small openings in parts of my
701. I live in an area with bugs that build nests in planes if they
can get into small cracks. I was thinking of using RTV around places
like the strut bracket opening into the wing. I've heard that some
silicone based products are not aluminum friendly. Is RTV, or
something like it, OK to use to seal these areas?
Doug Kandle
CH701
Boise ID
Rudder & Horiz. Stab. done Working on Wings
From complete kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
I honestly don't know about RTV for sure, I would think it was OK but
the real problem with RTV is that paint will never stick to it.
My favourite sealant is a stuff called Vulkem 116 and its what the
ductwork contractors use here at work. Its paintable and sticks to
virtually anything and stays flexible.
It's the most durable non silicone based sealant I have found. Home
Depot stocks it by the case...I probably still have 8 tubes of it left
over from our house project but it will get used eventually.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug kandle
Subject: Zenith-List: Sealing gaps
I would like to seal up some of the small openings in parts of my 701.
I live in an area with bugs that build nests in planes if they can get
into small cracks. I was thinking of using RTV around places like the
strut bracket opening into the wing. I've heard that some silicone
based products are not aluminum friendly. Is RTV, or something like it,
OK to use to seal these areas?
Doug Kandle
CH701
Boise ID
Rudder & Horiz. Stab. done Working on Wings From complete kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tinerj(at)tinerj.com" <tinerj(at)tinerj.com> |
| Subject: | Up and away 1776G |
1776G Firt Flight Great news to hear.
I was going to send email private, but I think I'll put this on the list so
I can explain that part of the 5 years was due to interruptions for the
help you've given others.
. . . Now if only I can get the tail of my 601 fuselage finished -- a month
of work and I am still messing around with getting the rudder hinges and
stablizer brackets to my liking . . .
John Hudson Tiner
tinerj(at)tinerj.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Ribb" <dan(at)danribb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
The only other place I see a reference to the overhang is on 6-C-1 (dated
07/05 in my case). Detail 4 - FORWARD TOP SKIN - it shows a 70mm "Overhang
of 6C1-4 for cowl". 6C1-4 is the forward top skin. It also shows that skin
blending into the side skin overhang. I've seen several 601s with nut
plates or other fastening systems placed in this overhang to attach the
cowling.
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL 1% on tail kit!
> posted by: "Craig Payne"
>
> Could you tell me what page these dimensions are on? I've looked through
> my
> older set of plans (January '01)and only saw a note in the lower left
> corner
> of 6-B-11: "Cut later for cowl installation". My newer plans (June of '03)
> include this and another note in the center bottom of 6-B-15: "Overhang of
> side skin past cowl for cowl installation". The original builder (Jack
> Rentfrow in Michigan) may have had a specific engine and cowl in mind and
> so
> trimmed the skins.
>
> -- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
Craig- Check 6-C-1 (mine date 10/01). The forward top skin is 570 wide.
It has a 15mm overhang on the rear (over the inst panel) for a rubber
moulding. that should leave you about 70mm overhang over the firewall.
Hope this helps.
Al Young
N-601AY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
Al, how are the repairs coming ? Is there anything we can do to help ?, Best
regards for Thanksgiving, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
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by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
Yes, that detail is in my newer plans (Jan '03). On 6-C-1 on the older plans
(May '01) there is just a note saying "Wait to trim overhang until ready to
install the engine cowl" That note is circled in yellow hi-liter so I assume
the original builder noted it. . No explicit dimension though.
What is interesting is how much the dimensions have changed from May '01 to
Jan '03. The forward top skin was 1045 at its widest by 600. The newer plans
have it as 1135 by 570. I'll need to stick with the old plans for
dimensions.
So much for interchangeable parts. I guess Eli Whitney and Eliphalet
Remington lived in vain ;-)
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Ribb
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall.
The only other place I see a reference to the overhang is on 6-C-1 (dated
07/05 in my case). Detail 4 - FORWARD TOP SKIN - it shows a 70mm "Overhang
of 6C1-4 for cowl". 6C1-4 is the forward top skin. It also shows that skin
blending into the side skin overhang. I've seen several 601s with nut
plates or other fastening systems placed in this overhang to attach the
cowling.
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL 1% on tail kit!
> posted by: "Craig Payne"
>
> Could you tell me what page these dimensions are on? I've looked
> through my older set of plans (January '01)and only saw a note in the
> lower left corner of 6-B-11: "Cut later for cowl installation". My
> newer plans (June of '03) include this and another note in the center
> bottom of 6-B-15: "Overhang of side skin past cowl for cowl
> installation". The original builder (Jack Rentfrow in Michigan) may
> have had a specific engine and cowl in mind and so trimmed the skins.
>
> -- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
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by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
Thanks. I think I can see how to fix this. The top forward skin hasn't been
riveted on so I can just replace it. For the two side skins I'll remove the
rivets along the firewall. Then I'll cut two pieces 80-90 mm wide and the
height of the side skins at the firewall. The only question in my mind is
whether this "extension" should get sandwiched between the firewall and the
skin or lay over the skin on the outside. The strength will be the same
either way so it will come down to how everything laps at the ends or which
way looks the best. I'm using a Corvair engine with William Wynne's nose
bowl. So there will be sheet metal cowling between the nose bowl and the
firewall
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Al Young
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall.
Craig- Check 6-C-1 (mine date 10/01). The forward top skin is 570 wide.
It has a 15mm overhang on the rear (over the inst panel) for a rubber
moulding. that should leave you about 70mm overhang over the firewall.
Hope this helps.
Al Young
N-601AY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Ribb" <dan(at)danribb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Good deal on rivets |
> --> posted by: "William J. Naumuk"
>
> Does anyone have the exact specifications for an A5? I'll be the first
> to e-mail them, but it might be best to have a better description than
> "5/32
> blind".
The Zodiac 601 "Construction Manual", page 9, shows:
A4 = Avex 1604-0412
A5 = Avex 1604-0514
Aircraft Spruce carries both:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/avexblindriv.php
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL 1% on tail kit!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Re: First flight 1776G |
At 12:12 PM 11/21/2005, you wrote:
>
>Gary
>
>I have 2 items to pass on. Don't use flaps in a cross wind and it
>takes off quicker and climbs faster with 10 degrees flaps.
I guess that's about 1 second on the switch! I'll try it.
>What is your empty weight?
Mine was 1224. With all the upholstery, I was happy with that. I
have a pretty light (electronic) panel. What approach and touchdown
speed do you target? Did you add any oilcanning bracing?
>Enjoy flying your plane!
Thanks, Bill.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <jlifer(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing holes etc. |
Doug, and for everyone else, I wouldn't put ANY silicone based caulk or sealant
on any surface that either needs painting or will be exposed to sunlight or that
you really want sealed. You will be disappointed. These are some of the most
overrated products sold. I'm not sure what I'll use, but in ALL my household
uses and short professional use, 99% of these items will fail over time, can't
be painted and are very difficult to completely remove. My opinion available
for what you just paid for it!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <jlifer(at)bellsouth.net> |
Well, I guess I'm a bit different from some of you guys. (and in a mood I guess
to pi** off some of you :)
I've been mainly scratch building and when I've needed rivets, I've simply called
up Zenith. Yes, they are much higher in price that some other sources, yes,
I'm a scrounger for a LOT of things, but I kind of think of this as allowing
them to make a bit of money off of me to compensate them for questions I've asked
(and will be asking). Kind of a commission. Ok, not really that much money,
but I do get the right rivets, not something a clerk drags up from the back
of the store that kind of looks like my rivet. And I don't spend extra time
looking when I could be working on pulling a few of the rivets. Asbestos longjohns
on!
Have a nice Thanksgiving!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I am a kit builder, so rivet source is not an issue for me.
However, I understand the Avex rivets Zenith uses are selected for
superior strength in order to make them "Aircraft Grade" quality. I
don't know if anyone has asked Zenith exactly what this means in
terms of specifications, but I believe this selection is necessary to
really have an airworthy plane. It is also required to get your
plane built to the designer's assumptions. For me, this makes the
choice a no-brainer.
Paul
XL wings
At 04:07 AM 11/23/2005, you wrote:
>
>Well, I guess I'm a bit different from some of you guys. (and in a
>mood I guess to pi** off some of you :)
>I've been mainly scratch building and when I've needed rivets, I've
>simply called up Zenith. Yes, they are much higher in price that
>some other sources, yes, I'm a scrounger for a LOT of things, but I
>kind of think of this as allowing them to make a bit of money off of
>me to compensate them for questions I've asked (and will be
>asking). Kind of a commission. Ok, not really that much money, but
>I do get the right rivets, not something a clerk drags up from the
>back of the store that kind of looks like my rivet. And I don't
>spend extra time looking when I could be working on pulling a few of
>the rivets. Asbestos longjohns on!
>Have a nice Thanksgiving!
>John
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | First flight 1776G |
| From: | "Rick Campbell" <rcampbell(at)me.vccs.edu> |
Gary,
Congratulations on your completion! I have been following your progress
ever since you put up your web site several years ago. I don't know if
you remember me but I was at the ZAC builder's workshop with you over 5
years ago, I was also building an 801 rudder. I finished my 801 a couple
of months ago and am waiting on the airworthiness inspection. A few
weeks ago I decided I would try to paint before it got to cold. I have
most of the plane painted with the exception of the slats and lower
cowl. I ended up going with the Franklin 220 hp engine. I just wanted
you to know that your web site has been very beneficial and inspiring to
alot of builders. I have not flown an 801 since I attended the workshop
several years ago, any pointers you could offer would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks,
Rick (N1399X)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Liming
> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 12:09 AM
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight 1776G
>
>
> At 12:12 PM 11/21/2005, you wrote:
>
> >
> >Gary
> >
> >I have 2 items to pass on. Don't use flaps in a cross wind and it
> >takes off quicker and climbs faster with 10 degrees flaps.
>
> I guess that's about 1 second on the switch! I'll try it.
>
> >What is your empty weight?
>
> Mine was 1224. With all the upholstery, I was happy with that. I
> have a pretty light (electronic) panel. What approach and touchdown
> speed do you target? Did you add any oilcanning bracing?
>
>
> >Enjoy flying your plane!
>
>
> Thanks, Bill.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>
23/11/2005
Rick Campbell
rcampbell(at)me.vccs.edu
http://www.mecc.edu
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mountain <mountain4don(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Good deal on rivets |
I think you guys need to be careful of your source of rivets for airplane construction.
As a licensed structural engineer, I deal with the strength of fasteners
all the time. And it is quite apparent that rivets that "look like" the
A4's and A5's that come from Zenith may only have materials that are less
than one quarter of the strength required to do the job. In other words, the
rivets from a Fastener store that look just like the high strength rivets from
Zenith may actually require four times as many in the aircraft to do the
same job handling the shear and tension required. So you need to know both the
size of the rivet and the shear strength, tensil capacity and fatigue capabilities
of the rivet to make the comparisons.
Don
I think I did better than that. I spent a half hour at the counter with
the head of sales at the Gerogia ACSS store and had A5 rivets with me to
compare with ACSS stock. He took a lot of time, got bags of 100 made up
from stock if they even looked close to my A5. We culled most of the
5/32 from catalog descriptions alone but looked at 4 bags of "likely
suspects" he brought out from stock.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank L Laczko <frank(at)laczko.com> |
Does anyone on the list have any experience with either the Woodcomp or
the Airmaster in flight adjustable propellers on a CH601XL?
Thanks
Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
Paul, I asked a similar question of the ZAC folks at my workshop in '02. I
was told that they batch test the A4 & A5 by putting tear stress on them after
pulling then through a piece of aluminum. These numbers may be wrong because of
memory deterioration, but that the A4 took like a 180 pounds to tear and the
A5 was 220 pounds. Again these number may be incorrect as at time it seem to
satisfy my curiosity so I did not record. Nor do I remember if ZAC explained
exactly how the test was conducted. I have yet to hear anyone mention that a
properly drilled, deburred and pulled rivet they sold ever fail. Best regards for
the Thanksgiving, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com> |
If you check out the europa list, There has been a load of messages lately
on Woodcomp/Airmaster,
interesting reading,
It may be of help!
Ivor Phillips
Europa XS486
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank L Laczko" <frank(at)laczko.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Propellers
>
> Does anyone on the list have any experience with either the Woodcomp or
> the Airmaster in flight adjustable propellers on a CH601XL?
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First flight 1776G |
Garys site is :
http://www.liming.org/ch801/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rico Voss <vozzen(at)yahoo.com> |
Gentlemen,
All of the recent questions regarding rivets have been
thoroughly discussed in the past. If you search the
archives for "rivets", you will find all the How's, Why's,
Where-to-buys, etc.
You'll also find why it is important to include "do not
archive" in un-important posts, as the generous host of
this list has asked us to to.
Regards,
RJV
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry McFarland <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
John and Paul,
I have to agree with you guys. You might use another source,
but what is your airworthiness inspector going to say about those few
rivets that eventually have
cracked about the periphery, or aren't quite seated the same. Or what
is your insurer going to say if you loose a skin
to rivets that were pulled beyond their plastic limit and departed
later? Or what happens to your planes value
when the buyer sees inconsistency in surfaces that suggests some rivets
pulled tight and others became loose. You
become the very liable entity if using less than aircraft quality rivets
causes the guy that flys your plane to have an accident.
Zenith rivets are not a cost issue. Zenith rivets are cheaper because
the aircraft designers have taken
the time to establish material requirements, grade and periodically test
them to find out if they have consistency and reliability for
the long term. As a scratch builder, I would not recommend the "open
market" for purchasing rivets that are a specified
component of the plans.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>
>I am a kit builder, so rivet source is not an issue for me.
>
>However, I understand the Avex rivets Zenith uses are selected for
>superior strength in order to make them "Aircraft Grade" quality. I
>don't know if anyone has asked Zenith exactly what this means in
>terms of specifications,
>
>Paul
>XL wings
>
>At 04:07 AM 11/23/2005, you wrote:
>
>
>> Ok, not really that much money, but
>>I do get the right rivets, not something a clerk drags up from the
>>back of the store that kind of looks like my rivet. And I don't
>>spend extra time looking when I could be working on pulling a few of
>>the rivets. Asbestos longjohns on!
>>Have a nice Thanksgiving!
>>John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Structure failure and accidents. |
Hi Bill,
You make a good point that rivet failure is not a problem on
Zodiacs. I have been digging into accident information for a while
now and it seems structural failure is essentially nonexistent in
Zodiacs. From my perspective, the vast majority of accident causes
for Zodiacs point to pilot error. This is consistent with other well
designed airplanes.
Still, as amateur builders we have a responsibility to perform
whatever quality control is done on our airplanes. This includes
insuring the materials used are consistent with the needs of the
design as specified by the designer. The risks of a major failure
due to poor quality rivets may be small, but that is one risk we can
easily avoid.
For my money, the best bet is to stick to rivets and other components
of the proper quality.
One side note (which seems to call for a steel cup jock strap)
obvious from the accident information above: We can do a lot more to
prevent accidents by improving our piloting skills than by improving
the quality of our rivets. Unfortunately, I have found that an
alarming number of amateur builders think issuance of a pilot
certificate marks the end of their need for training. I couldn't
agree with this position less. I believe the pilot skills we have
and the extra training we get to improve those skills are the most
important factor leading to survival as airplane pilots.
Paul
XL wings
At 06:25 AM 11/23/2005, you wrote:
>
>Paul, I asked a similar question of the ZAC folks at my workshop in '02. I
>was told that they batch test the A4 & A5 by putting tear stress on
>them after
>pulling then through a piece of aluminum. These numbers may be wrong
>because of
>memory deterioration, but that the A4 took like a 180 pounds to tear and the
>A5 was 220 pounds. Again these number may be incorrect as at time it seem to
>satisfy my curiosity so I did not record. Nor do I remember if ZAC explained
>exactly how the test was conducted. I have yet to hear anyone mention that a
>properly drilled, deburred and pulled rivet they sold ever fail.
>Best regards for
>the Thanksgiving, Bill
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John M. Goodings" <goodings(at)yorku.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 601 side skins forward of the firewall |
The original plans for the CH600 (mine date from 1965) had the side skins
trimmed flush with the firewall. Unfortunately, I did this, but it is not
a big deal. When I came to attach the cowl, I added back strips about 90
mm wide to protrude about 70 mm beyond the firewall. I match-drilled the
rivet holes in these strips to the rivet holes for attaching the side
skins to the firewall. The strips are rivetted on the outside of the
sideskins. One caution: the 90 mm strips are NOT straight; they curve
because the firewall curves in at the bottom. Do them with cardboard
first. The end result looks very good. It is possible that this approach
gives a closer fit to the cowl, so don't fret! You may end up with a
better product!
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD (actually CH600.5!) with R912S, currently
95.3 hrs., Waterloo and Toronto.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | VideoFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Structure failure and accidents. |
<<>>>
Boy...that's the best statement I've heard today. I don't mean to minimize
the importance of quality workmanship and materials....but as was pointed out,
structural failure on the Zodiac is almost unheard of. It's a well designed
plane.
Pilot error and engine failure seem to be the most common cause of accidents.
Dave
601XL/Corvair
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | VideoFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Structure failure and accidents. |
<<<>>>
Has this ever happened?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | VideoFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Structure failure and accidents. |
<<>>>
Nor does every engine failure or "pilot error" result in a crash.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CH701 Slat Profiles |
de.ittind.com>
| From: | "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" <Keith.Ashcraft(at)itt.com> |
Subject: CH701 Slat Profiles
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:35:26 -0700
From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" <Keith.Ashcraft(at)itt.com>
Hello all,
This is for CH701 scratch builders. I have been working on some router templates
for my smaller-complex parts, and doing some touchup on my forming blocks, when
I did a comparison with my router template for my slat ribs (7S1-1), and my
slat-forming blocks. I noticed a difference between 7S1-1 layout and the slat
profile 7F13. I have attached a link to what I have come up with, and overlayed
to 2 on top of each other.
http://www.geocities.com/ch701builder/slat_differences.pdf
What a big difference. I must have built my forming block from the slat profile.
What have other builders used, or maybe kit-builders can lay their factory rib
on the full-scale drawing on 7F13, and see if there is a difference. What is
7F13 used for anyway? According to the photo guide, you do not use it for positioning
the slats.
I am using the following plans
Edition #4---6th printing---02/2002
Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!!
Keith
Building little parts!!
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CH701 Slat Profiles |
de.ittind.com>
| From: | "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" <Keith.Ashcraft(at)itt.com> |
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH701 Slat Profiles
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 16:19:47 -0700
From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" <Keith.Ashcraft(at)itt.com>
Sorry for the extra junk in the middle of the email!!
Keith
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LmRlLml0dGluZC5jb20+AAAAAPDW
************************************
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have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that
any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | First flight 1776G |
Gary
My empty weight is 1175 but I bet I'm up over 1200 with all the stuff I have added
since I weighed the plane. I'm thinking of weighting it again when I have
it hung up to install the floats.
I put 3/4"x3/8" weather stripping on most of the big areas in the back to reduce
the oil canning. Since I quit flying around in slow flight with power I have
not heard it oil canning. I have thought of replacing the weather stripping
with standard L to reduce the weight. We will see what happens.
I rotate 30-45 MPH depending on weight. When you are light, when the nose comes
up, it will fly. Best angle and best rate are 70 MPH. I normally climb at
80 for better cooling. I fly my pattern like I was in a Cessna. 1500 rpm abeam
the runway end. When I slow to 80 I drop 10 degrees flaps. another 10 on
base at 70 and another 10 turning final at 60, over the fence in the low 50's
and drop in the final 10. I have never had it drop out from under me because
I was too slow. Although every now and then I need to add some power to round
out. I need some space to do touch and goes, it takes some time to get the flaps
up and the trim reset.
Enjoy
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
Valdez, AK
>Gary
>
>I have 2 items to pass on. Don't use flaps in a cross wind and it
>takes off quicker and climbs faster with 10 degrees flaps.
I guess that's about 1 second on the switch! I'll try it.
>What is your empty weight?
Mine was 1224. With all the upholstery, I was happy with that. I
have a pretty light (electronic) panel. What approach and touchdown
speed do you target? Did you add any oilcanning bracing?
>Enjoy flying your plane!
Thanks, Bill.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | CH701 Slat Profiles |
FVGT_m_MULTI_ODD,TM2_M_VERY_LONG_WORD,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG,
UPPERCASE_25_50,XMLngstWrd_00,XMLngstWrd_01,XMLngstWrd_02,
Winmail.dat is generated by Outlook Express (and Outlook I guess) to send
text formatting information. There is no standard for sending formatted
e-mail. Follow this link to see how to turn the generation of winmail.dat
off:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q138053/
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ashcraft, Keith
-AES
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH701 Slat Profiles
-->
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH701 Slat Profiles
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 16:19:47 -0700
From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" <Keith.Ashcraft(at)itt.com>
Sorry for the extra junk in the middle of the email!!
Keith
name="winmail.dat"
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LmRlLml0dGluZC5jb20+AAAAAPDW
************************************
This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please
note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of
the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc.
The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence
of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any
virus transmitted by this e-mail.
************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry McFarland <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Possible solution to gear strut failures on the 601HD and |
HDS series
Hi guys,
I've been grousing over recent gear failures at the forward
weld-junction of the 1/8-inch gear-strut plates on the 601HD and HDS
series and want to increase strut-plate thickness on my 601HDS before
the cracking problem presents itself. I also want to get the same
alignment of the main gear without performing any welding near the
aircraft. For these reasons, I plan to cut the .058 wall gear strut
tubes half an inch above the strut plates to remove the thin 1/8" gear
plates when the aircraft is apart for painting this next spring.
I made a sample weld-assembly of 3/16-inch gear plate per (6-L-1) and
2-inch diameter, -inch wall 4130 tubes 2-inches long, that will be
bench-welded away from the airplane. The tubes will be turned down to
1.872 O.D. to half an inch of one end to fit inside the .058-wall strut
tube. (Note that some were made of .065 wall.) They will be slid up
into the cut-off gear struts with wheels and tires bolted in place, then
allowed to settle on the machined-shoulder as axially aligned on the
plane. They will be drilled front to back and through-bolted using an
AN-4 or 5 aircraft bolt and Nylock nut.
A proper fit with a small radius in the shoulder plus a wall thickness
of 1/8-inch material 1-1/2-inches up inside the strut tube and bolted,
will provide solid attachment that should not present a problem, even
for the wheel pants configured to fit per Zenith. I submitted this
process to Nick and I hope it meets with his approval.
The best of it is maintaining the length of the gear strut, all new
welds, and more importantly, no welding anywhere near the plane. Worst
of it is the extra
2.75 lbs added weight to get it done.
Anyway, I've placed a link to the drawing that comes up to a printable
size if you're curious.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/gear-plate-and-strut.gif
Do have a nice Thanksgiving,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at macsmachine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Davidson" <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance |
Jim,
Is your 601 XL available for homebuilders to get a few hours time in a
601? I'm close enough to finishing that I'd like to start getting some time
in a 601. I'm a Private Pilot with Instrument rating and 500+ hours mostly
in a 172M. I'm "local" to Sky Bryce or other area airports. I suspect
others may be interested too.
Jeff Davidson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim
Subject: Zenith-List: First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance
All,
On October 5th the FAA issued an SLSA Airworthiness Certificate on the 1st
Zenair 601XL produced by Czech Aircraft Works, and distributed by
SportsPlanes.com
Look for a formal announcement of this event in EAA's online newsletter in
the near future.
This first aircraft (side number N601VA) was delivered to me on Friday 7
October. I flew the airplane back to Virginia with my Mid-Atlantic Sports
Planes Chief Pilot, Nathan Mayers. This beautiful airplane will be used in
our 1-week Sport Pilot Immersive Flight School at the Bryce Mountain Resort
in Virginia.
Statistics and Performance with a Rotax 912S 100 hp engine:
Empty Weight: 728 lbs (from actual weight and balance for N601VA)
Gross Takeoff Weight: 1320 lbs
Actual Useful Load: 592 lbs
Fuel Capacity: 30 gallons (29 useable) 180 lbs
Useful Load with Full Fuel: 412 lbs
Useful Load with 15 gallons of fuel: 502 lbs
On the flight from Lakeland, FL to Virginia we were able to reach 130 mph
Max Continuous Cruise Speed (true airspeed) at 5500 RPM. We also took this
beautiful performing bird up to 13,500 feet. We averaged 4.9 gallons per
hour for the entire trip. We got 125 mph True Airspeed at 5200 RPM.
My estimation of maximum range with 30 minute reserves, given the
performance on this trip, would be 662 miles over a 5.3 hour trip (5 gallons
per hour at 125 mph, 29 gallons useable, 30 minute reserve).
The bird had plenty of baggage space with two wing lockers and a cavernouse
storage area behind the seats. I am more than pleased with "N601VA".....it
will be a great workhorse for our flight school and for rentals. Our first
Sport Pilot School student is coming tomorrow for a week.
For more information about the 601XL and the other aircraft we sell please
go to one of the following two websites:
www.sportsplanes.com
www.MASPL.com
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim(at)sportsplanes.com
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 11/23/05 |
Frank,
While I am thinking seriously about using an in-flight adjustable prop you
need to keep in mind that if the 601XL is fitted with one it will NOT be a
Sport Pilot eligible aircraft.
>
> From: Frank L Laczko <frank(at)laczko.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Propellers
>
>
> Does anyone on the list have any experience with either the Woodcomp or
> the Airmaster in flight adjustable propellers on a CH601XL?
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pellien" <jim(at)pellien.com> |
| Subject: | First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance |
Jeff,
Yes, the aircraft is available for rent. It is our policy for all pilots to
take a 5 hour checkout with our instructor before flying it solo. Prices
are on my website for the checkout and for solo rental blocks of 5, 10 and
20 hours.
www.maspl.com
Take a look. When you are ready to fly, pease call y flight instructor,
Nathan Mayer, at 804-212-7876
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Davidson
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance
Jim,
Is your 601 XL available for homebuilders to get a few hours time in a
601? I'm close enough to finishing that I'd like to start getting some time
in a 601. I'm a Private Pilot with Instrument rating and 500+ hours mostly
in a 172M. I'm "local" to Sky Bryce or other area airports. I suspect
others may be interested too.
Jeff Davidson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim
Subject: Zenith-List: First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance
All,
On October 5th the FAA issued an SLSA Airworthiness Certificate on the 1st
Zenair 601XL produced by Czech Aircraft Works, and distributed by
SportsPlanes.com
Look for a formal announcement of this event in EAA's online newsletter in
the near future.
This first aircraft (side number N601VA) was delivered to me on Friday 7
October. I flew the airplane back to Virginia with my Mid-Atlantic Sports
Planes Chief Pilot, Nathan Mayers. This beautiful airplane will be used in
our 1-week Sport Pilot Immersive Flight School at the Bryce Mountain Resort
in Virginia.
Statistics and Performance with a Rotax 912S 100 hp engine:
Empty Weight: 728 lbs (from actual weight and balance for N601VA)
Gross Takeoff Weight: 1320 lbs
Actual Useful Load: 592 lbs
Fuel Capacity: 30 gallons (29 useable) 180 lbs
Useful Load with Full Fuel: 412 lbs
Useful Load with 15 gallons of fuel: 502 lbs
On the flight from Lakeland, FL to Virginia we were able to reach 130 mph
Max Continuous Cruise Speed (true airspeed) at 5500 RPM. We also took this
beautiful performing bird up to 13,500 feet. We averaged 4.9 gallons per
hour for the entire trip. We got 125 mph True Airspeed at 5200 RPM.
My estimation of maximum range with 30 minute reserves, given the
performance on this trip, would be 662 miles over a 5.3 hour trip (5 gallons
per hour at 125 mph, 29 gallons useable, 30 minute reserve).
The bird had plenty of baggage space with two wing lockers and a cavernouse
storage area behind the seats. I am more than pleased with "N601VA".....it
will be a great workhorse for our flight school and for rentals. Our first
Sport Pilot School student is coming tomorrow for a week.
For more information about the 601XL and the other aircraft we sell please
go to one of the following two websites:
www.sportsplanes.com
www.MASPL.com
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim(at)sportsplanes.com
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance |
Its farther away from you but I think Zenith offers feminization time in the
factory demo.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Davidson
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance
-->
Jim,
Is your 601 XL available for homebuilders to get a few hours time in a
601? I'm close enough to finishing that I'd like to start getting some time
in a 601. I'm a Private Pilot with Instrument rating and 500+ hours mostly
in a 172M. I'm "local" to Sky Bryce or other area airports. I suspect
others may be interested too.
Jeff Davidson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim
Subject: Zenith-List: First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance
All,
On October 5th the FAA issued an SLSA Airworthiness Certificate on the 1st
Zenair 601XL produced by Czech Aircraft Works, and distributed by
SportsPlanes.com
Look for a formal announcement of this event in EAA's online newsletter in
the near future.
This first aircraft (side number N601VA) was delivered to me on Friday 7
October. I flew the airplane back to Virginia with my Mid-Atlantic Sports
Planes Chief Pilot, Nathan Mayers. This beautiful airplane will be used in
our 1-week Sport Pilot Immersive Flight School at the Bryce Mountain Resort
in Virginia.
Statistics and Performance with a Rotax 912S 100 hp engine:
Empty Weight: 728 lbs (from actual weight and balance for N601VA) Gross
Takeoff Weight: 1320 lbs Actual Useful Load: 592 lbs Fuel Capacity: 30
gallons (29 useable) 180 lbs Useful Load with Full Fuel: 412 lbs Useful Load
with 15 gallons of fuel: 502 lbs
On the flight from Lakeland, FL to Virginia we were able to reach 130 mph
Max Continuous Cruise Speed (true airspeed) at 5500 RPM. We also took this
beautiful performing bird up to 13,500 feet. We averaged 4.9 gallons per
hour for the entire trip. We got 125 mph True Airspeed at 5200 RPM.
My estimation of maximum range with 30 minute reserves, given the
performance on this trip, would be 662 miles over a 5.3 hour trip (5 gallons
per hour at 125 mph, 29 gallons useable, 30 minute reserve).
The bird had plenty of baggage space with two wing lockers and a cavernouse
storage area behind the seats. I am more than pleased with "N601VA".....it
will be a great workhorse for our flight school and for rentals. Our first
Sport Pilot School student is coming tomorrow for a week.
For more information about the 601XL and the other aircraft we sell please
go to one of the following two websites:
www.sportsplanes.com
www.MASPL.com
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim(at)sportsplanes.com
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance |
Damn spell-checker. That's "familiarization". If you want the other there is
this clinic in Sweden...
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance
-->
Its farther away from you but I think Zenith offers feminization time in the
factory demo.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Davidson
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance
-->
Jim,
Is your 601 XL available for homebuilders to get a few hours time in a
601? I'm close enough to finishing that I'd like to start getting some time
in a 601. I'm a Private Pilot with Instrument rating and 500+ hours mostly
in a 172M. I'm "local" to Sky Bryce or other area airports. I suspect
others may be interested too.
Jeff Davidson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim
Subject: Zenith-List: First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance
All,
On October 5th the FAA issued an SLSA Airworthiness Certificate on the 1st
Zenair 601XL produced by Czech Aircraft Works, and distributed by
SportsPlanes.com
Look for a formal announcement of this event in EAA's online newsletter in
the near future.
This first aircraft (side number N601VA) was delivered to me on Friday 7
October. I flew the airplane back to Virginia with my Mid-Atlantic Sports
Planes Chief Pilot, Nathan Mayers. This beautiful airplane will be used in
our 1-week Sport Pilot Immersive Flight School at the Bryce Mountain Resort
in Virginia.
Statistics and Performance with a Rotax 912S 100 hp engine:
Empty Weight: 728 lbs (from actual weight and balance for N601VA) Gross
Takeoff Weight: 1320 lbs Actual Useful Load: 592 lbs Fuel Capacity: 30
gallons (29 useable) 180 lbs Useful Load with Full Fuel: 412 lbs Useful Load
with 15 gallons of fuel: 502 lbs
On the flight from Lakeland, FL to Virginia we were able to reach 130 mph
Max Continuous Cruise Speed (true airspeed) at 5500 RPM. We also took this
beautiful performing bird up to 13,500 feet. We averaged 4.9 gallons per
hour for the entire trip. We got 125 mph True Airspeed at 5200 RPM.
My estimation of maximum range with 30 minute reserves, given the
performance on this trip, would be 662 miles over a 5.3 hour trip (5 gallons
per hour at 125 mph, 29 gallons useable, 30 minute reserve).
The bird had plenty of baggage space with two wing lockers and a cavernouse
storage area behind the seats. I am more than pleased with "N601VA".....it
will be a great workhorse for our flight school and for rentals. Our first
Sport Pilot School student is coming tomorrow for a week.
For more information about the 601XL and the other aircraft we sell please
go to one of the following two websites:
www.sportsplanes.com
www.MASPL.com
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim(at)sportsplanes.com
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron wehba" <rwehba(at)pegasusbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance |
ha, just wonder how many caught it, it didn't
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance
>
> Damn spell-checker. That's "familiarization". If you want the other there
> is
> this clinic in Sweden...
>
> -- Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance
>
> -->
>
> Its farther away from you but I think Zenith offers feminization time in
> the
> factory demo.
>
> -- Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Davidson
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance
>
> -->
>
> Jim,
> Is your 601 XL available for homebuilders to get a few hours time in a
> 601? I'm close enough to finishing that I'd like to start getting some
> time
> in a 601. I'm a Private Pilot with Instrument rating and 500+ hours
> mostly
> in a 172M. I'm "local" to Sky Bryce or other area airports. I suspect
> others may be interested too.
> Jeff Davidson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance
>
>
> All,
>
> On October 5th the FAA issued an SLSA Airworthiness Certificate on the 1st
> Zenair 601XL produced by Czech Aircraft Works, and distributed by
> SportsPlanes.com
>
> Look for a formal announcement of this event in EAA's online newsletter in
> the near future.
>
> This first aircraft (side number N601VA) was delivered to me on Friday 7
> October. I flew the airplane back to Virginia with my Mid-Atlantic Sports
> Planes Chief Pilot, Nathan Mayers. This beautiful airplane will be used
> in
> our 1-week Sport Pilot Immersive Flight School at the Bryce Mountain
> Resort
> in Virginia.
>
> Statistics and Performance with a Rotax 912S 100 hp engine:
>
> Empty Weight: 728 lbs (from actual weight and balance for N601VA) Gross
> Takeoff Weight: 1320 lbs Actual Useful Load: 592 lbs Fuel Capacity: 30
> gallons (29 useable) 180 lbs Useful Load with Full Fuel: 412 lbs Useful
> Load
> with 15 gallons of fuel: 502 lbs
>
> On the flight from Lakeland, FL to Virginia we were able to reach 130 mph
> Max Continuous Cruise Speed (true airspeed) at 5500 RPM. We also took
> this
> beautiful performing bird up to 13,500 feet. We averaged 4.9 gallons per
> hour for the entire trip. We got 125 mph True Airspeed at 5200 RPM.
>
> My estimation of maximum range with 30 minute reserves, given the
> performance on this trip, would be 662 miles over a 5.3 hour trip (5
> gallons
> per hour at 125 mph, 29 gallons useable, 30 minute reserve).
>
> The bird had plenty of baggage space with two wing lockers and a
> cavernouse
> storage area behind the seats. I am more than pleased with
> "N601VA".....it
> will be a great workhorse for our flight school and for rentals. Our
> first
> Sport Pilot School student is coming tomorrow for a week.
>
> For more information about the 601XL and the other aircraft we sell please
> go to one of the following two websites:
>
> www.sportsplanes.com
> www.MASPL.com
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Pellien
> Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
> www.MASPL.com
> 703-313-4818
> jim(at)sportsplanes.com
>
>
> Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Structure failure and accidents. "The Dangers of the |
Air".
A Big Ttruth!
I dont know if I mentioned this: But in the later reprints of the famous book
STICK AND RUDDER there is a chapter added with a great article that mention
exactly this.
The name of the article is: "The Dangers of the Air" by Mr. Leighton Collins,
Sadly he passed away a few weeks ago, a great Aviation Pionner.
If you (well, all of us) dont have this book, lets buy it and read it... Is
a must in any Aviator library.
A quote I found some time ago:
"And let's get one thing straight. There's a big difference between a pilot and
an aviator. One is a technician; the other is an artist in love with flight."
-- -- E.B. Jeppesen -- --
Saludos
Gary Gower
VideoFlyer(at)aol.com wrote:
<>>>
Boy...that's the best statement I've heard today. I don't mean to minimize
the importance of quality workmanship and materials....but as was pointed out,
structural failure on the Zodiac is almost unheard of. It's a well designed
plane.
Pilot error and engine failure seem to be the most common cause of accidents.
Dave
601XL/Corvair
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | Installing nose wheel bungee |
Does anyone have any clever ideas or tools for stretching and installing the
nose wheel bungee on an XL?
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Installing nose wheel bungee |
| From: | "Hunt Malcolm" <Malcolm.HUNT(at)networkrail.co.uk> |
Craig
See latest Photo Assembly Guides (14th November 2005) on the Zenith
website, supplier details given.
Regards
Malcolm Hunt
CH601 Plans builder in England
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Subject: Zenith-List: Installing nose wheel bungee
Does anyone have any clever ideas or tools for stretching and installing
the
nose wheel bungee on an XL?
-- Craig
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johann G." <johann(at)rafpostur.is> |
| Subject: | oil pressure fluctuation |
Hello list members.
I have been experiencing some oil pressure fluctuation. I found a
possible solution to the problem which is to put a washer under the
spring of the bypass valve. Can someone help me with the location of
that valve? Is it in the oil pump on the bottom?
There is a spring in the parts catalog from CPS where they show a
picture of the pump from Rotax. It is #3 and the nut or cap is marked #
5. Can this be the cap nut that needs a washer?
Thanks in advance,
Johann G.
Iceland.
Z701 27 hrs flying.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Page <webmaster(at)upac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: oil pressure fluctuation |
Johann, the location of the pressure spring is under the oil pump
just before the oil filter. There is a bolt head there.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Nov 25, 2005, at 4:34 AM, Johann G. wrote:
>
> Hello list members.
>
> I have been experiencing some oil pressure fluctuation. I found a
> possible solution to the problem which is to put a washer under the
> spring of the bypass valve. Can someone help me with the location of
> that valve? Is it in the oil pump on the bottom?
> There is a spring in the parts catalog from CPS where they show a
> picture of the pump from Rotax. It is #3 and the nut or cap is
> marked #
> 5. Can this be the cap nut that needs a washer?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Johann G.
> Iceland.
> Z701 27 hrs flying.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William J. Naumuk" <billn(at)velocity.net> |
| Subject: | Real Aileron Dimensions |
All-
It took me a month to the day to figure out the dimensions you need to build
an HDS aileron, since the plans are a total mess. Zenith was no help- they just
kept recommending that I buy factory parts. This was after my original kit
parts didn't work! Everyone should take the time to read this posting, to give
you an idea of how patient and analytical you should be in order to give yourself
the best chance at successfully completing your project.
If I weren't absolutely sure of my findings, I wouldn't throw myself to the
wolves. There is no grey area- if you don't believe me, try building a good aileron
to the rev 4 prints! No updates are offered at this time.
Start with the skin blank. There are 3 different possible layouts, two on 6SV-3
and one on 6-V-10. 6SV-3-1, with one change, will give you the lightest skin
while meeting all of the other dimensional requirements. Instead of a 485mm
DL, you want to go with 475mm. If you don't (Which was the way I went) you wind
up with a 30mm Z spar flange instead of the required 20mm. I wasn't going
to spend $125 in materials and subcontractor's fees to save a couple of ounces
extra weight. I lucked out here.
Second, the Construction Manual is actually correct for once. To set the 11
deg root rib (And eventually, main rib) angles, measure in 38mm from the I/B
Z spar edge instead of the 43mm shown on 6SV-3 and 6-V-10. This is where double
checking each assembly with it's mating part will save you. Something didn't
look right, and my protractor proved it wasn't. All this cost me was some alcohol
and the time it took to remove the 43mm lines and replace them with the 38mm
lines.
Finally, the tip rib. I laid out the print full size in AutoCad, cut the rib
forms on my table saw, and fabricated a rib that was well within 2mm of plan
dimensions. It was almost 3/4" short of meeting the trailing edge! I triple checked
everything, and had extensive correspondence with Nick. No help. So I went
ahead and very carefully laid out, cut and filed the O/B end, then made a
cardboard tracing of the opening. Then I transferred the tracing to AutoCad using
just the vertices for the main dimensions and adding the rivet flanges. The
plans call for a tip rib 160mm vertically from the hypotenuse, 95mm opposite,
by 140mm at the adjacent. I wound up with 163mm x100mm x
160mm. The couple of mm difference in the hypotenuse and the opposite are no big
deal, but the 20mm difference in the adjacent was the culprit. 20mm .787",
or roughly 3/4".
Better archive this one in case there are still some HDS builders out there.
Like the sarge on Hill Street Blues used to say, "Be careful out there".
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pellien" <jim(at)pellien.com> |
| Subject: | Pre-Heating a 601 |
Question: What have you found to be the best way to pre-heat your 601 in
winter?
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Hulland <marinegunner(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre-Heating a 601 |
Jim,
Move to a climate that does not require pre-heating or snow. Works all the
time and is cheap.
Semper Fi,
Steve H
DO NOT ARCHIEVE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank(at)megsinet.net> |
Paul,
to answer your question about the specifications on the rivets used ,
this is from the Avidel Technical data sheet.
part number 1682-0412 1/8 grip range .093-.250 Single Shear 155
lb Ultimate Tensile 205 lb.
part number 1682-0514 5/32 grip range .109-.312 Single Shear 225
lb. Ultimate Tensile 300 lb.
The wild card here is the head, all these specifications are with the
counter sunk head from the factory. There has been much discussion on
the list as to the effect of modifying the head such as we do. Whether
it strengthens or weakens the riveted joint? The fact that there is no
specification as to the exact profile of the formed dome head means that
there is a great variation in head shapes made by the various builders
modifying their rivet pullers and thus a potential great variation in
pull strengths. Since Zodiacs are not falling from the sky with their
skins unzipping at the rivet lines would indicate that there is
considerable margin in the design. As for those "special rivets" from
Zenith from that "special" factory in England the distributor I buy my
rivets form confirmed that all rivet production is now in China.
Tim Shankland
Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>
>I am a kit builder, so rivet source is not an issue for me.
>
>However, I understand the Avex rivets Zenith uses are selected for
>superior strength in order to make them "Aircraft Grade" quality. I
>don't know if anyone has asked Zenith exactly what this means in
>terms of specifications, but I believe this selection is necessary to
>really have an airworthy plane. It is also required to get your
>plane built to the designer's assumptions. For me, this makes the
>choice a no-brainer.
>
>Paul
>XL wings
>
>At 04:07 AM 11/23/2005, you wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Well, I guess I'm a bit different from some of you guys. (and in a
>>mood I guess to pi** off some of you :)
>>I've been mainly scratch building and when I've needed rivets, I've
>>simply called up Zenith. Yes, they are much higher in price that
>>some other sources, yes, I'm a scrounger for a LOT of things, but I
>>kind of think of this as allowing them to make a bit of money off of
>>me to compensate them for questions I've asked (and will be
>>asking). Kind of a commission. Ok, not really that much money, but
>>I do get the right rivets, not something a clerk drags up from the
>>back of the store that kind of looks like my rivet. And I don't
>>spend extra time looking when I could be working on pulling a few of
>>the rivets. Asbestos longjohns on!
>>Have a nice Thanksgiving!
>>John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------
>Paul Mulwitz
>32013 NE Dial Road
>Camas, WA 98607
>---------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry McFarland <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre-Heating a 601 |
Jim,
I use a "milk house heater" to keep the engine comfortably warm. It
doesn't generate too much
heat and shuts itself off when temps get above freezing. See link
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/heatertocowl.gif
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Jim Pellien wrote:
>
>Question: What have you found to be the best way to pre-heat your 601 in
>winter?
>
>
>Jim Pellien
>
>Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
>
>The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Installing nose wheel bungee |
Craig, yes and no. Is your engine mounted? If not make a tool from a steel
pipe where you grind out the lip into an oval (football shape) and pry it up and
on the forward shaft. With the weight of the engine all I had to do was take
off the round retaining plate at the top of the gear shaft, jack up the front
of the plane to lower the gear shaft and it slipped over the forward shaft.
Then I lowered the front of the plane slowly letting the engine weight stretch
the cord and guided the top of the gear shaft through the green plastic bushing
plate and the firewall top cross beam. Was not difficult job at all. Best
luck, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Installing nose wheel bungee |
Craig- A 1.5" pipe (or any diameter that will fit over the front tube)
about 18 " or more long. hook thru the bungee and hook over the tube. lift
and slide the bungeee off the pipe and onto the tube. Takes all of 15
seconds.
Regards
Al Young
601XL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | Installing nose wheel bungee |
Thanks for all the replies on mounting the bungee.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pellien" <jim(at)pellien.com> |
| Subject: | Pre-Heating a 601 |
Larry,
My aircraft is not hangered. Looks like a good pre-heat setup for aircraft
that are hangered. However, I don't think I could leave a heater like that
operating outside in snow and rain???
Thanks for the suggestion.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pre-Heating a 601
Jim,
I use a "milk house heater" to keep the engine comfortably warm. It
doesn't generate too much
heat and shuts itself off when temps get above freezing. See link
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/heatertocowl.gif
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Jim Pellien wrote:
>
>Question: What have you found to be the best way to pre-heat your 601 in
>winter?
>
>
>Jim Pellien
>
>Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
>
>The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | Pre-Heating a 601 |
What about an engine block heater? I don't know if your plane is parked
close enough to an electrical outlet. I found these on Aircraft Spruce that
adhere to the oil pan:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/ezheat.php
But if you have a Rotax I don't think these will work as the Rotax has a dry
oil sump.
A related product is a battery blanket (also electrical). Warms your battery
for more cranking power.
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-Browse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CA
TENTRY_ID:2006128/showCustom-0/p-2006128/N-111+10214+600010588/c-10114/TID-8
014524
If you are not near a source of electrical power all I can suggest is a
small radiant heater. There are some that are small enough to run off of a
propane torch bottle. But that would mean that you would have to remove some
cowling to point the heat at the block.
http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=400000
08000&productId=6077481&parent_category_rn=4500640&vcat=REI_SEARCH
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pellien
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Pre-Heating a 601
Larry,
My aircraft is not hangered. Looks like a good pre-heat setup for aircraft
that are hangered. However, I don't think I could leave a heater like that
operating outside in snow and rain???
Thanks for the suggestion.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pre-Heating a 601
-->
Jim,
I use a "milk house heater" to keep the engine comfortably warm. It doesn't
generate too much heat and shuts itself off when temps get above freezing.
See link http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/heatertocowl.gif
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Jim Pellien wrote:
>
>Question: What have you found to be the best way to pre-heat your 601
>in winter?
>
>
>Jim Pellien
>
>Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
>
>The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry McFarland <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre-Heating a 601 |
Jim,
If you've got access to electricity, it'd be a minor matter to make a
weatherproof shell for keeping wet and wind out of the
heater that would reach up a little further under the cowl. It would
need a set of wheels 2-foot ground extensions for stability
and a weather proof cord all to keep wetness out but it could be done.
Nice thing about this type of heater is that if it gets
kicked over it shuts off too. If the winds get nasty, you could even
stake it down. Then you'd have to plug up your cowl but
for one screened opening on the bottom to keep the field mice out of it.
Don't give up on it.
I think you could do it, if you have a plug-in somewhere close by.
Larry
Jim Pellien wrote:
>
>Larry,
>
>My aircraft is not hangered. Looks like a good pre-heat setup for aircraft
>that are hangered. However, I don't think I could leave a heater like that
>operating outside in snow and rain???
>
>Thanks for the suggestion.
>
>Jim
>
>Jim Pellien
>Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
>The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
>www.MASPL.com
>703-313-4818
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pre-Heating a 601
>
>
>Jim,
>I use a "milk house heater" to keep the engine comfortably warm. It
>doesn't generate too much
>heat and shuts itself off when temps get above freezing. See link
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/heatertocowl.gif
>
>Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>Jim Pellien wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Question: What have you found to be the best way to pre-heat your 601 in
>>winter?
>>
>>
>>Jim Pellien
>>
>>Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
>>
>>The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Zilz" <z4t143(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Installing nose wheel bungee |
I'm not sure how the XL nose strut works, but I'll explain how I did it on
our 801. I used the tire iron from our car jack as a lever. I got the
bungee installed on the aft hook and wrapped around in prep for stretching
onto the fwd post. Since that fwd post is an open tube, I placed the tire
iron through the end of the bungee and inserted it into the open tube. This
arrangement allowed me to lift the tire iron and stretch the bungee until it
was on the edge of the fwd post. From that condition, it didn't take much
to persuade the bungee onto the post. Sounds simple now, but I do recall
wrestling with it for a bit. Be careful! There is alot of energy stored in
that stretched bungee! Hope that helps!
Dave Zilz
St. Peters MO
z4t143(at)hotmail.com
www.geocities.com/z4t143/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Installing nose wheel bungee
>
> Does anyone have any clever ideas or tools for stretching and installing
> the
> nose wheel bungee on an XL?
>
> -- Craig
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy" <rpf(at)wi.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre-Heating a 601 |
Jim,
I used a block heater system, from www.reiffpreheat.com that you epoxy to
the bottom of the block and a cylinder band heater that I put around the oil
tank. Put a blanket, or something, over the cowling to cover up the air
inlets and the system works very well.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Pellien" <jim(at)pellien.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Pre-Heating a 601
>
> Larry,
>
> My aircraft is not hangered. Looks like a good pre-heat setup for
> aircraft
> that are hangered. However, I don't think I could leave a heater like
> that
> operating outside in snow and rain???
>
> Thanks for the suggestion.
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Pellien
> Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
> The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
> www.MASPL.com
> 703-313-4818
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
> McFarland
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pre-Heating a 601
>
>
> Jim,
> I use a "milk house heater" to keep the engine comfortably warm. It
> doesn't generate too much
> heat and shuts itself off when temps get above freezing. See link
> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/heatertocowl.gif
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
> Jim Pellien wrote:
>
>>
>>Question: What have you found to be the best way to pre-heat your 601 in
>>winter?
>>
>>
>>Jim Pellien
>>
>>Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
>>
>>The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: oil pressure fluctuation. |
Hello Johann,
Is the oil pressure electric? I will first check the pressure with a phisical
oil instrument, carefully installed temporary, preferable if possible outside
the cabin...
Probably the fluctuation could be from a faulty conection to a faulty sender
or instrument.
In my case I will first be sure that the instrument is working OK before moving
forward with the engine...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Trevor Page wrote:
Johann, the location of the pressure spring is under the oil pump
just before the oil filter. There is a bolt head there.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Nov 25, 2005, at 4:34 AM, Johann G. wrote:
>
> Hello list members.
>
> I have been experiencing some oil pressure fluctuation. I found a
> possible solution to the problem which is to put a washer under the
> spring of the bypass valve. Can someone help me with the location of
> that valve? Is it in the oil pump on the bottom?
> There is a spring in the parts catalog from CPS where they show a
> picture of the pump from Rotax. It is #3 and the nut or cap is
> marked #
> 5. Can this be the cap nut that needs a washer?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Johann G.
> Iceland.
> Z701 27 hrs flying.
>
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre-Heating a 601. |
Hello Larry,
I liked you idea since last year...
This is a Off hands point of view, for shure here we dont need a heater for
the engine,
But how about installing another hose from the engine cowling the the inlet
of the heater... this air circulating could lower the use of the heater. Less
electricity used...
Well, probably will not be worth it...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Larry McFarland wrote:
Jim,
I use a "milk house heater" to keep the engine comfortably warm. It
doesn't generate too much
heat and shuts itself off when temps get above freezing. See link
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/heatertocowl.gif
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Jim Pellien wrote:
>
>Question: What have you found to be the best way to pre-heat your 601 in
>winter?
>
>
>Jim Pellien
>
>Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
>
>The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | Installing nose wheel bungee |
Thanks! I did a variation on your idea by using a pipe over the outside of
the stub (as suggested in two responses). I made a 45 degree cut at the end
of a piece of conduit that was about 18" long. The longer part of the cut
will hook over the top of the stub even when angled down at 45 degrees to
catch the end of the bungee. Then you just raise the far end of the pipe
while pushing the bungee along the pipe towards the stub. Cutting the end of
the pipe or typing up this description took longer than getting the bungee
on.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Zilz
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Installing nose wheel bungee
I'm not sure how the XL nose strut works, but I'll explain how I did it on
our 801. I used the tire iron from our car jack as a lever. I got the
bungee installed on the aft hook and wrapped around in prep for stretching
onto the fwd post. Since that fwd post is an open tube, I placed the tire
iron through the end of the bungee and inserted it into the open tube. This
arrangement allowed me to lift the tire iron and stretch the bungee until it
was on the edge of the fwd post. From that condition, it didn't take much
to persuade the bungee onto the post. Sounds simple now, but I do recall
wrestling with it for a bit. Be careful! There is alot of energy stored in
that stretched bungee! Hope that helps!
Dave Zilz
St. Peters MO
z4t143(at)hotmail.com
www.geocities.com/z4t143/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Installing nose wheel bungee
>
> Does anyone have any clever ideas or tools for stretching and installing
> the
> nose wheel bungee on an XL?
>
> -- Craig
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NYTerminat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 912S engine installation in 701 |
List
I am installing a 912S in a CH701 and have a question on the coolant line
routing. I have the Firewall Forward package from Skyshops ( Czech Works) new
style cowl. The drawing 7-E-13Z shows two different hose routing connections for
the 912 and the 912S. The 912 has the bottom of the radiator connecting to the
water pump and the 912S the bottom of the radiator connects to the top
expansion tank. Why would there be a difference? Does it matter which side connects
to the bottom of the radiator?
One of the problems I am having is that the coolant hose that was supplied
has very little flexibility to bend without kinking. It almost has no ability to
bend. It would be better to route them as the 912 shows .Has anyone had this
problem? Is there anyone that has installed the newer style cowl on a 701 with
the 912S? If there is could you contact me as I have some other
questions/concerns.
I have seen that blue coolant hose on other peoples planes, where do I get
that and does it bend well? The hose that I have is black, it is called Semperit
FKD Kuhlwasser/cooling water 25x3.5. On the photo's that I got from Skyshops
they show short pieces of hose connecting to aluminum preformed pipes. All I
got was a length of hose.
I look forward to hearing from you guys
Thanks
Bob Spudis
Ch-701/912S frustrated
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alex trent <atrent7(at)cogeco.ca> |
Back in the dim distant past I used to rent a J3 from a local
operator. His pre heat was to stick a hose over the exhaust of the
tractor and stuff the other end in the air intake. This was in the
winter and it sometimes gets quite chilly up here in the frozen north.
Seemed to work and this was a "no electrics cub" as in hand swing that
prop. That was fine for the engine, the driver had to dress for the
occasion since there was no heat in the cabin and a J3 cabin can get
lots of fresh air wafting though. Funny part about this particular a/c
was that when it started you didn't dare touch the throttle until it had
warmed up a bit. If you did it would quit and you would have a great
deal of difficulty getting it started again. I read somewhere that the
reason was that the moisture in the mixture would freeze and foul the
plugs. No idea if this is fact or not
alex t
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pellien" <jim(at)pellien.com> |
| Subject: | Pre-Heating a 601 |
Larry,
Thanks for the thoughts about an electic pre-heater. They engendered an
idea that I'm going to try out tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pre-Heating a 601
Jim,
If you've got access to electricity, it'd be a minor matter to make a
weatherproof shell for keeping wet and wind out of the
heater that would reach up a little further under the cowl. It would
need a set of wheels 2-foot ground extensions for stability
and a weather proof cord all to keep wetness out but it could be done.
Nice thing about this type of heater is that if it gets
kicked over it shuts off too. If the winds get nasty, you could even
stake it down. Then you'd have to plug up your cowl but
for one screened opening on the bottom to keep the field mice out of it.
Don't give up on it.
I think you could do it, if you have a plug-in somewhere close by.
Larry
Jim Pellien wrote:
>
>Larry,
>
>My aircraft is not hangered. Looks like a good pre-heat setup for aircraft
>that are hangered. However, I don't think I could leave a heater like that
>operating outside in snow and rain???
>
>Thanks for the suggestion.
>
>Jim
>
>Jim Pellien
>Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
>The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
>www.MASPL.com
>703-313-4818
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pre-Heating a 601
>
>
>Jim,
>I use a "milk house heater" to keep the engine comfortably warm. It
>doesn't generate too much
>heat and shuts itself off when temps get above freezing. See link
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/heatertocowl.gif
>
>Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>Jim Pellien wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Question: What have you found to be the best way to pre-heat your 601 in
>>winter?
>>
>>
>>Jim Pellien
>>
>>Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
>>
>>The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pellien" <jim(at)pellien.com> |
| Subject: | Pre-Heating a 601 |
Thanks,
I'll look into this system as well.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pre-Heating a 601
Jim,
I used a block heater system, from www.reiffpreheat.com that you epoxy to
the bottom of the block and a cylinder band heater that I put around the oil
tank. Put a blanket, or something, over the cowling to cover up the air
inlets and the system works very well.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Pellien" <jim(at)pellien.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Pre-Heating a 601
>
> Larry,
>
> My aircraft is not hangered. Looks like a good pre-heat setup for
> aircraft
> that are hangered. However, I don't think I could leave a heater like
> that
> operating outside in snow and rain???
>
> Thanks for the suggestion.
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Pellien
> Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
> The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
> www.MASPL.com
> 703-313-4818
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
> McFarland
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pre-Heating a 601
>
>
> Jim,
> I use a "milk house heater" to keep the engine comfortably warm. It
> doesn't generate too much
> heat and shuts itself off when temps get above freezing. See link
> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/heatertocowl.gif
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
> Jim Pellien wrote:
>
>>
>>Question: What have you found to be the best way to pre-heat your 601 in
>>winter?
>>
>>
>>Jim Pellien
>>
>>Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
>>
>>The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Davidson" <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance |
Thanks Jim. I'll be in touch with you or Nathan right after the holidays.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pellien
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance
Jeff,
Yes, the aircraft is available for rent. It is our policy for all pilots to
take a 5 hour checkout with our instructor before flying it solo. Prices
are on my website for the checkout and for solo rental blocks of 5, 10 and
20 hours.
www.maspl.com
Take a look. When you are ready to fly, pease call y flight instructor,
Nathan Mayer, at 804-212-7876
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Davidson
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance
Jim,
Is your 601 XL available for homebuilders to get a few hours time in a
601? I'm close enough to finishing that I'd like to start getting some time
in a 601. I'm a Private Pilot with Instrument rating and 500+ hours mostly
in a 172M. I'm "local" to Sky Bryce or other area airports. I suspect
others may be interested too.
Jeff Davidson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim
Subject: Zenith-List: First SLSA 601XL Demonstrated Performance
All,
On October 5th the FAA issued an SLSA Airworthiness Certificate on the 1st
Zenair 601XL produced by Czech Aircraft Works, and distributed by
SportsPlanes.com
Look for a formal announcement of this event in EAA's online newsletter in
the near future.
This first aircraft (side number N601VA) was delivered to me on Friday 7
October. I flew the airplane back to Virginia with my Mid-Atlantic Sports
Planes Chief Pilot, Nathan Mayers. This beautiful airplane will be used in
our 1-week Sport Pilot Immersive Flight School at the Bryce Mountain Resort
in Virginia.
Statistics and Performance with a Rotax 912S 100 hp engine:
Empty Weight: 728 lbs (from actual weight and balance for N601VA)
Gross Takeoff Weight: 1320 lbs
Actual Useful Load: 592 lbs
Fuel Capacity: 30 gallons (29 useable) 180 lbs
Useful Load with Full Fuel: 412 lbs
Useful Load with 15 gallons of fuel: 502 lbs
On the flight from Lakeland, FL to Virginia we were able to reach 130 mph
Max Continuous Cruise Speed (true airspeed) at 5500 RPM. We also took this
beautiful performing bird up to 13,500 feet. We averaged 4.9 gallons per
hour for the entire trip. We got 125 mph True Airspeed at 5200 RPM.
My estimation of maximum range with 30 minute reserves, given the
performance on this trip, would be 662 miles over a 5.3 hour trip (5 gallons
per hour at 125 mph, 29 gallons useable, 30 minute reserve).
The bird had plenty of baggage space with two wing lockers and a cavernouse
storage area behind the seats. I am more than pleased with "N601VA".....it
will be a great workhorse for our flight school and for rentals. Our first
Sport Pilot School student is coming tomorrow for a week.
For more information about the 601XL and the other aircraft we sell please
go to one of the following two websites:
www.sportsplanes.com
www.MASPL.com
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim(at)sportsplanes.com
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Fothergill <mfothergill(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine installation in 701 |
Hi;
I look in the automotive radiator hose sections and find prebent hoses
that can be joined to get to the desired shape.
Mike
UHS Spinners
NYTerminat(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> List
>
> I am installing a 912S in a CH701 and have a question on the coolant line
> routing. I have the Firewall Forward package from Skyshops ( Czech Works) new
> style cowl. The drawing 7-E-13Z shows two different hose routing connections
for
> the 912 and the 912S. The 912 has the bottom of the radiator connecting to the
> water pump and the 912S the bottom of the radiator connects to the top
> expansion tank. Why would there be a difference? Does it matter which side connects
> to the bottom of the radiator?
>
> One of the problems I am having is that the coolant hose that was supplied
> has very little flexibility to bend without kinking. It almost has no ability
to
> bend. It would be better to route them as the 912 shows .Has anyone had this
> problem? Is there anyone that has installed the newer style cowl on a 701 with
> the 912S? If there is could you contact me as I have some other
> questions/concerns.
>
> I have seen that blue coolant hose on other peoples planes, where do I get
> that and does it bend well? The hose that I have is black, it is called Semperit
> FKD Kuhlwasser/cooling water 25x3.5. On the photo's that I got from Skyshops
> they show short pieces of hose connecting to aluminum preformed pipes. All I
> got was a length of hose.
>
> I look forward to hearing from you guys
>
> Thanks
> Bob Spudis
>
> Ch-701/912S frustrated
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair(at)ATT.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine installation in 701 |
Bob
I just removed a 912UL which had the hose from the water pump to the top of the
radiator, a friend has a 912S that has his hose going to the bottom. I would think
that
the choice would be as to which is easier for routing your hoses. Either way the
water
goes from the pump, through the radiator, and then up to the expansion tank. And
it's
almost all uphill on the way to the tank.
Mike Sinclair
NYTerminat(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> List
>
> I am installing a 912S in a CH701 and have a question on the coolant line
> routing. I have the Firewall Forward package from Skyshops ( Czech Works) new
> style cowl. The drawing 7-E-13Z shows two different hose routing connections
for
> the 912 and the 912S. The 912 has the bottom of the radiator connecting to the
> water pump and the 912S the bottom of the radiator connects to the top
> expansion tank. Why would there be a difference? Does it matter which side connects
> to the bottom of the radiator?
>
> One of the problems I am having is that the coolant hose that was supplied
> has very little flexibility to bend without kinking. It almost has no ability
to
> bend. It would be better to route them as the 912 shows .Has anyone had this
> problem? Is there anyone that has installed the newer style cowl on a 701 with
> the 912S? If there is could you contact me as I have some other
> questions/concerns.
>
> I have seen that blue coolant hose on other peoples planes, where do I get
> that and does it bend well? The hose that I have is black, it is called Semperit
> FKD Kuhlwasser/cooling water 25x3.5. On the photo's that I got from Skyshops
> they show short pieces of hose connecting to aluminum preformed pipes. All I
> got was a length of hose.
>
> I look forward to hearing from you guys
>
> Thanks
> Bob Spudis
>
> Ch-701/912S frustrated
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | 912S engine installation in 701 |
That's ignoring a bunch of hydraulics and physics principles that I'm sure
others here will be happy to explain to you, and that I'm sure your local
A&P will be really thrilled to see you do...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike
Sinclair
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912S engine installation in 701
Bob
I just removed a 912UL which had the hose from the water pump to the top of
the
radiator, a friend has a 912S that has his hose going to the bottom. I would
think that
the choice would be as to which is easier for routing your hoses. Either way
the water
goes from the pump, through the radiator, and then up to the expansion tank.
And it's
almost all uphill on the way to the tank.
Mike Sinclair
NYTerminat(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> List
>
> I am installing a 912S in a CH701 and have a question on the coolant line
> routing. I have the Firewall Forward package from Skyshops ( Czech Works)
new
> style cowl. The drawing 7-E-13Z shows two different hose routing
connections for
> the 912 and the 912S. The 912 has the bottom of the radiator connecting to
the
> water pump and the 912S the bottom of the radiator connects to the top
> expansion tank. Why would there be a difference? Does it matter which side
connects
> to the bottom of the radiator?
>
> One of the problems I am having is that the coolant hose that was supplied
> has very little flexibility to bend without kinking. It almost has no
ability to
> bend. It would be better to route them as the 912 shows .Has anyone had
this
> problem? Is there anyone that has installed the newer style cowl on a 701
with
> the 912S? If there is could you contact me as I have some other
> questions/concerns.
>
> I have seen that blue coolant hose on other peoples planes, where do I get
> that and does it bend well? The hose that I have is black, it is called
Semperit
> FKD Kuhlwasser/cooling water 25x3.5. On the photo's that I got from
Skyshops
> they show short pieces of hose connecting to aluminum preformed pipes. All
I
> got was a length of hose.
>
> I look forward to hearing from you guys
>
> Thanks
> Bob Spudis
>
> Ch-701/912S frustrated
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Hulland <marinegunner(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The List of Contributors Coming Soon - Make Sure You're |
Listed!
Matt,
My check will be coming just as soon as I receive payment for the class I
was doing when I had the stroke. Probably around 2nd week of December.
Semper Fi,
Steve H.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair(at)ATT.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine installation in 701 |
Bill
Rather than waiting for someone else to explain these hydraulics and physics
principles that apply to this situation, how about you go ahead and enlighten
us. I went and got my manual out of the box of the brand new 912S that I just
had shipped to me 3 weeks ago and the diagram actually shows the hose going from
the water pump to the top of the radiator (as I had it installed on my 912UL).
I
have also seen the hoses ran the other way with no adverse affects. I was in
error on one assumption however, instead of the coolant going from the water
pump to the radiator, it actually goes the other direction and is pumped
directly into the heads on the engine. BTW, my local A&P deals primarily with
certificated engines such as Continental & Lycoming, so if you have knowledge
concerning Rotax engines and their cooling systems that is not included in the
manuals, I am sure that I am not the only one that would be interested in
hearing it.
Mike Sinclair
Bill Denton wrote:
>
> That's ignoring a bunch of hydraulics and physics principles that I'm sure
> others here will be happy to explain to you, and that I'm sure your local
> A&P will be really thrilled to see you do...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike
> Sinclair
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912S engine installation in 701
>
>
> Bob
>
> I just removed a 912UL which had the hose from the water pump to the top of
> the
> radiator, a friend has a 912S that has his hose going to the bottom. I would
> think that
> the choice would be as to which is easier for routing your hoses. Either way
> the water
> goes from the pump, through the radiator, and then up to the expansion tank.
> And it's
> almost all uphill on the way to the tank.
>
> Mike Sinclair
>
> NYTerminat(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > List
> >
> > I am installing a 912S in a CH701 and have a question on the coolant line
> > routing. I have the Firewall Forward package from Skyshops ( Czech Works)
> new
> > style cowl. The drawing 7-E-13Z shows two different hose routing
> connections for
> > the 912 and the 912S. The 912 has the bottom of the radiator connecting to
> the
> > water pump and the 912S the bottom of the radiator connects to the top
> > expansion tank. Why would there be a difference? Does it matter which side
> connects
> > to the bottom of the radiator?
> >
> > One of the problems I am having is that the coolant hose that was supplied
> > has very little flexibility to bend without kinking. It almost has no
> ability to
> > bend. It would be better to route them as the 912 shows .Has anyone had
> this
> > problem? Is there anyone that has installed the newer style cowl on a 701
> with
> > the 912S? If there is could you contact me as I have some other
> > questions/concerns.
> >
> > I have seen that blue coolant hose on other peoples planes, where do I get
> > that and does it bend well? The hose that I have is black, it is called
> Semperit
> > FKD Kuhlwasser/cooling water 25x3.5. On the photo's that I got from
> Skyshops
> > they show short pieces of hose connecting to aluminum preformed pipes. All
> I
> > got was a length of hose.
> >
> > I look forward to hearing from you guys
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bob Spudis
> >
> > Ch-701/912S frustrated
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair(at)ATT.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine installation in 701 |
All
I will add one little caveat to my previous post, I can see that if for some reason
you
have been losing coolant, pulling the coolant from the bottom of the radiator might
allow
you to go a little further before the engine seizes up. However, I would suspect
that if
the coolant has gotten that low you will already be seeing indications of overheating
on
your cylinder head or oil temp gages. That said, I believe I may be routing my
lines the
other way after all. Will just have to ask a few more questions to the guys that
work with
these systems daily. Happy Holidays to alla y'all.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: XL Nose Gear Doubler |
Paul- The doubler takes 6 bolts thru the top using the existing holes (if
you have already drilled them). You need a little longer bolt that the
AN4-7A called for on the original drawing 6-G-1. Also there are two bolts
on the sides of the fork (total of 4) about 10mm up from the bottom of the
reenforcement. All these bolts should be included in the package with the
fork reenforcement. I don't have the installation instructions with me but
hope this helps.
Regards,
Al Young
N-601AY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NYTerminat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine installation in 701 |
In a message dated 11/26/2005 3:42:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
webmaster(at)upac.ca writes:
www.rotaxservice.com
Not sure that that water outlet would help.
Bob Spudis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NYTerminat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 912S engine installation in 701 |
Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Denton"
That's ignoring a bunch of hydraulics and physics principles that I'm sure
others here will be happy to explain to you, and that I'm sure your local
A&P will be really thrilled to see you do...
Which way are you saying that it has to be?
Bob Spudis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | 912S engine installation in 701 |
I'll have to take an "engage brain before opening mouth" on this one; I was
thinking in terms of auto radiators...
Re: the Installation manual, my copy is dated 09/01/1998, an on Page 11-3 it
shows water flowing from the Water Pump to the TOP of the Radiator, while on
Page 11-4 it shows water flowing from the Water Pump to the BOTTOM of the
Radiator.
So, in this instance, it apparently makes no difference.
Mea culpa...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike
Sinclair
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912S engine installation in 701
Bill
Rather than waiting for someone else to explain these hydraulics and physics
principles that apply to this situation, how about you go ahead and
enlighten
us. I went and got my manual out of the box of the brand new 912S that I
just
had shipped to me 3 weeks ago and the diagram actually shows the hose going
from
the water pump to the top of the radiator (as I had it installed on my
912UL). I
have also seen the hoses ran the other way with no adverse affects. I was in
error on one assumption however, instead of the coolant going from the water
pump to the radiator, it actually goes the other direction and is pumped
directly into the heads on the engine. BTW, my local A&P deals primarily
with
certificated engines such as Continental & Lycoming, so if you have
knowledge
concerning Rotax engines and their cooling systems that is not included in
the
manuals, I am sure that I am not the only one that would be interested in
hearing it.
Mike Sinclair
Bill Denton wrote:
>
> That's ignoring a bunch of hydraulics and physics principles that I'm sure
> others here will be happy to explain to you, and that I'm sure your local
> A&P will be really thrilled to see you do...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike
> Sinclair
> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912S engine installation in 701
>
>
> Bob
>
> I just removed a 912UL which had the hose from the water pump to the top
of
> the
> radiator, a friend has a 912S that has his hose going to the bottom. I
would
> think that
> the choice would be as to which is easier for routing your hoses. Either
way
> the water
> goes from the pump, through the radiator, and then up to the expansion
tank.
> And it's
> almost all uphill on the way to the tank.
>
> Mike Sinclair
>
> NYTerminat(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > List
> >
> > I am installing a 912S in a CH701 and have a question on the coolant
line
> > routing. I have the Firewall Forward package from Skyshops ( Czech
Works)
> new
> > style cowl. The drawing 7-E-13Z shows two different hose routing
> connections for
> > the 912 and the 912S. The 912 has the bottom of the radiator connecting
to
> the
> > water pump and the 912S the bottom of the radiator connects to the top
> > expansion tank. Why would there be a difference? Does it matter which
side
> connects
> > to the bottom of the radiator?
> >
> > One of the problems I am having is that the coolant hose that was
supplied
> > has very little flexibility to bend without kinking. It almost has no
> ability to
> > bend. It would be better to route them as the 912 shows .Has anyone had
> this
> > problem? Is there anyone that has installed the newer style cowl on a
701
> with
> > the 912S? If there is could you contact me as I have some other
> > questions/concerns.
> >
> > I have seen that blue coolant hose on other peoples planes, where do I
get
> > that and does it bend well? The hose that I have is black, it is called
> Semperit
> > FKD Kuhlwasser/cooling water 25x3.5. On the photo's that I got from
> Skyshops
> > they show short pieces of hose connecting to aluminum preformed pipes.
All
> I
> > got was a length of hose.
> >
> > I look forward to hearing from you guys
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bob Spudis
> >
> > Ch-701/912S frustrated
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Alberti" <daberti(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | 912S engine installation in 701 |
All Rotax engines will chug along with a complete loss of coolant from the
system. You will most likely have some cylinder head warpage, but the
engine wont seize. Not the same with oil!
-----Original Message-----
I will add one little caveat to my previous post, I can see that if for some
reason you
have been losing coolant, pulling the coolant from the bottom of the
radiator might allow
you to go a little further before the engine seizes up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tebenkof(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fuel Flow measurement |
Dear experts and others with opinions,
I am putting in the old Grand Rapids EIS4000 with my 912S. I did not order
the fuel flow/totalizer feature, but am planning to do so before finishing
the installation. The company wants $375 to add the fuel monitor system, which
seems to be nothing more than the additon of a FloScan 201B fuel flow
monitor. Said monitor is available several places on the web for around $125.
I have not asked the Grand Rapids folks yet, as it is weekend. Am I
missing something?
Jim Greenough
701 getting there slowly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Hi Ed,
I don't think you should worry about rivets supplied with ZAC
kits. I have been building from sub-kits and always have rivets left
over. In one case, I ran out of A5 rivets with one hole left to
fill, so I requested information on getting some more. They just
sent me 50 with no charge and no paper work.
I have not been so lucky with solid rivets in the kits. The little
ones used to mount nut plates are so small they want to jump off the
bench and hide in some small cranny in my shop. In this case they
counted them very carefully and didn't give me any extras at all. I
decided to order a bunch of extra nut plates and rivets along with
the matching screws from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. This not only
allows me to stop worrying about losing the little tiny rivets, but
gives me spares to make extra inspection ports for stuff not included
in the kit (like my Lift Reserve Indicator).
Fortunately the standard AN or MS parts are easy to order and not
very expensive.
Good luck,
Paul
XL wings
At 05:21 PM 11/27/2005, you wrote:
>
>As I am about to fly the demo 601XL and will probably order the kit soon
>thereafter, what is the consensus of the list on how many extra rivets (and
>what sizes) I should order with the kit? I figure the need for more rivets
>is inevitable (I've built an ultralight trainer so I believe that extra will
>be needed) and I would rather pay for them up front and not have to wait for
>them later plus pay extra shipping. What do the completed builders think on
>this question?
>
>Ed
>
>
>_--------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Portouw" <Larry(at)portouw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling and riveting tool recommendationDimpling and |
riveting tool recomendation
Eddie,
I've gotta ask: why are you dimpling your skins? Are you using solid
rivets?
Larry Portouw
601XL -kit
Atlanta
Time:
Subject:
Dimpling and riveting tool recommendation
From:
"Eddie Seve"
Hi Kevin,
Have a look at the DRDT-2
I bought this dimpling tool to do the skins on my XL kit, it works
beautifully and there is no guessing about how hard the hammer blow
needs to be, you just pull the handle to compress the sheet metal
between the dies. It has an adjustable stop so you can't over do the
dimpling by exerting too much pressure and this guarantees that you
get
nice uniform dimples.
http://www.experimentalaero.com/
Regards,
Eddie Seve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: XL Nose gear doubler -- P R O B L E M -- |
| From: | "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
1.62 GAPPY_SUBJECT Subject": zenith-list(at)matronics.com
I imagine this is like "questioning the master", but I do question the
use of 3/16 inch 6061 T6 COLD bend Al.
That's pretty thick Al. to cold bend, even with a radius. Seems like
there is major metal weakness introduced with a cold bend with this
thickness of metal this thickness.....Any thoughts..(see PDF from link
for note on cold bend)
.......................................................................
...................................
XL Nose Gear Doubler
Thanks for the help everyone. This link was exactly what I was seeking
and
couldn't find! Maybe too much turkey...?!
Paul
XL - O200
-----Original Message-----
From: wscribb
Here is a link to the Builders Notice regarding the nose fork doubler.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/601xl-nose-wheel-fork-letter.pd
f
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
Ed, I probably have ten pounds of A4 & A5 left over from what they sent with
the kit. Maybe they just gave me extra figuring I was going to screw up that
much. I would not worry about it much as ZAC has always sent me promptly any
extra or replacement parts. FWIW, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jim" <jim(at)pellien.com> |
| Subject: | Pre-Heating a 601XL |
Everybody,
Thanks for all of the suggestions on how to pre-heat the 912 in my 601XL.
I cam up with yet another approach. I bought an 1800 watt wallpaper remover (essentially
it is a hair dryer on steroids) and blew its hot air:
1st: up the 912's exhaust pipe (seemed to work somewhat)
2nd: into the 912's water radiator and up into the cowling (seemed to work much
better)
On a 32 degree day it took about 20 minutes to get a deflection on the water and
oil temp gauges.
This is an inexpensive answer to the problem of pre-heating the 601XL. I only
had to add a metal tube to the end of the blower so that I could place the blower
on the ground. In the rain I am going to cover over the plastic housing and
fan area with a zip-lock bag to keep out water.
I've attached two photographs and will upload them to the website. Unfortunately
the close-up that was taken did not work for some reason.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim(at)sportsplanes.com
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Possible solution to gear strut failures on the 601HD |
and HDS series
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Not sure if the bolt head won't hit the underside of the weldment under
the wing?
I think I have seen evidence the wheelpant gets very close to the
weldment during rough landings.
Tell us what Zac says Larry...Oh and how much you could knock out some
sets of stepped tubes while you got your lather set up as well...:)
Welding is not a problem for me but I aint got no lathe!!!...Ain't got
no cracks either but I could simply include them with the plane when I
sell it early next year if I haven't gotten around to upgrading before
then.
Cheers
Frank
601 HDS, strstus with Ram heads 385 hours.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Subject: Zenith-List: Possible solution to gear strut failures on the
601HD and HDS series
-->
Hi guys,
I've been grousing over recent gear failures at the forward
weld-junction of the 1/8-inch gear-strut plates on the 601HD and HDS
series and want to increase strut-plate thickness on my 601HDS before
the cracking problem presents itself. I also want to get the same
alignment of the main gear without performing any welding near the
aircraft. For these reasons, I plan to cut the .058 wall gear strut
tubes half an inch above the strut plates to remove the thin 1/8" gear
plates when the aircraft is apart for painting this next spring.
I made a sample weld-assembly of 3/16-inch gear plate per (6-L-1) and
2-inch diameter, -inch wall 4130 tubes 2-inches long, that will be
bench-welded away from the airplane. The tubes will be turned down to
1.872 O.D. to half an inch of one end to fit inside the .058-wall strut
tube. (Note that some were made of .065 wall.) They will be slid up
into the cut-off gear struts with wheels and tires bolted in place, then
allowed to settle on the machined-shoulder as axially aligned on the
plane. They will be drilled front to back and through-bolted using an
AN-4 or 5 aircraft bolt and Nylock nut.
A proper fit with a small radius in the shoulder plus a wall thickness
of 1/8-inch material 1-1/2-inches up inside the strut tube and bolted,
will provide solid attachment that should not present a problem, even
for the wheel pants configured to fit per Zenith. I submitted this
process to Nick and I hope it meets with his approval.
The best of it is maintaining the length of the gear strut, all new
welds, and more importantly, no welding anywhere near the plane. Worst
of it is the extra
2.75 lbs added weight to get it done.
Anyway, I've placed a link to the drawing that comes up to a printable
size if you're curious.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/gear-plate-and-strut.g
if
Do have a nice Thanksgiving,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at macsmachine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry McFarland <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: XL Nose gear doubler -- P R O B L E M -- |
Philip,
You can "easily" cold bend 6061-T6 if you make a jig for the radius.
I bent 3/16-inch forks using two sizes of roller with the center clamped
in place.
If you roll it around a cylinder, there are no major stresses, except
the one you place on yourself. See links, I could have made the
bend-lever longer.
In this case, it's recommended you bend along the aluminum draw lines even
though aluminum doesn't have grain like steel.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/push.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/final-fit.gif
I've got 90 hours on my HDS by now and no problems with the forks.
Larry McFarland plans built 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Condon, Philip M. wrote:
>
>I imagine this is like "questioning the master", but I do question the
>use of 3/16 inch 6061 T6 COLD bend Al.
>That's pretty thick Al. to cold bend, even with a radius. Seems like
>there is major metal weakness introduced with a cold bend with this
>thickness of metal this thickness.....Any thoughts..(see PDF from link
>for note on cold bend)
>
>.......................................................................
>...................................
> XL Nose Gear Doubler
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hildebrand, Eldo E" <eldo(at)unb.ca> |
| Subject: | Pre-Heating on a cold day |
As a mostly armchair observer here, (a broken wrist makes me particularly an observer
and a slow typist at present) I am not sure if this "pre-heat" option has been
mentioned:
Around here, you can buy an 800 watt in car heater from Canadian Tire for about
forty
Cdn $. In Whitehorse in the 70s, they used to simply place one inside a blanket
wrapped cowling of their Cherokees to warm them up for first start for a day of
flight
training. Part of the post shut down procedure was to fasten the fitted blanket
back
on so the -30 C "breeze" didn't cool the engine too much between student flights.
The car interior heaters have an auto shut down safety thermostat and I've not
had any
issues even when a family member has left gloves and hats piled on it in the backseat
of the car (it did freak me when I saw it in the morning and said family now checks
for
clear operation BEFORE pluggiing in the timer for the night!).
Eldo Hildebrand, P.Eng.
University of New Brunswick
P.O. Box 4400 Fredericton NB E3B 5A3
Phone 506 453 5112
Fax 506 453 3568
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry McFarland <larrymc(at)qconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Possible solution to gear strut failures on the |
601HD and HDS series
Frank,
I don't think the bolt would travel the 4" or more to touch the gear box
in any case.
If Nick approves, I'll turn a set of three 2-inch O.D. tubes stepped for
.058 wall or .065 wall struts with .196
thick plates 3.55 square, not drilled, not welded, for $40.00. If
welded, $50.00. plus postal. The tickler is you finding out
which wall thickness strut you have.
But, we'll have to wait to hear from Nick.
Fly safe,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>
>Not sure if the bolt head won't hit the underside of the weldment under
>the wing?
>
>I think I have seen evidence the wheelpant gets very close to the
>weldment during rough landings.
>
>Tell us what Zac says Larry...Oh and how much you could knock out some
>sets of stepped tubes while you got your lather set up as well...:)
>
>Welding is not a problem for me but I aint got no lathe!!!...Ain't got
>no cracks either but I could simply include them with the plane when I
>sell it early next year if I haven't gotten around to upgrading before
>then.
>Cheers
>
>Frank
>601 HDS, strstus with Ram heads 385 hours.
>
>
>To: zenith-list
>Subject: Zenith-List: Possible solution to gear strut failures on the
>601HD and HDS series
>
>-->
>
>Anyway, I've placed a link to the drawing that comes up to a printable
>size if you're curious.
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/gear-plate-and-strut.gif
>
>Do have a nice Thanksgiving,
>
>Larry McFarland - 601HDS at macsmachine.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dimpling and riveting tool recommendation Dimpling and |
riveting tool recommendation
| From: | "Eddie Seve" <eddie.seve(at)clarity.com> |
Hi Larry,
No I'm not using solid rivets, just the 120 degree rivets supplied by
Zenith. I just liked the look of the flush finish of the rivets with the
dimpled skin.
One of the guys I met here in Australia was about 70% complete with his
Zodiac XL kit and had dimpled all the external skins and the finish was
just fantastic. This more than anything else has motivated me to do the
same.
I realise that it's more effort and that at the end of the day the
reduction in drag will be minimal, it's just one of those personal
preference things.
Best Regards,
Eddie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Portouw
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dimpling and riveting tool
recommendationDimpling and riveting tool recomendation
Eddie,
I've gotta ask: why are you dimpling your skins? Are you using solid
rivets?
Larry Portouw
601XL -kit
Atlanta
Time:
Subject:
Dimpling and riveting tool recommendation
From:
"Eddie Seve"
Hi Kevin,
Have a look at the DRDT-2
I bought this dimpling tool to do the skins on my XL kit, it works
beautifully and there is no guessing about how hard the hammer
blow
needs to be, you just pull the handle to compress the sheet metal
between the dies. It has an adjustable stop so you can't over do
the
dimpling by exerting too much pressure and this guarantees that
you
get
nice uniform dimples.
http://www.experimentalaero.com/
Regards,
Eddie Seve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Interesting photos |
Found an interesting site with some unusual airplane pictures. Check
it out.
http://www.airmunn.com/oops.htm
Garth Dawson 701 scratch builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | Interesting photos |
Here is another link that has these and more (but the site appears to be
down right now):
http://www.micom.net/oops/
There is an index page full of links by aircraft type so you don't have to
download all the pictures at once.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gsrth(at)aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Interesting photos
Found an interesting site with some unusual airplane pictures. Check
it out.
http://www.airmunn.com/oops.htm
Garth Dawson 701 scratch builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Possible solution to gear strut failures on the 601HD |
and HDS series
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Put me down for a $50 welded set Larry...Thats very kind of you!
Now the bolt hole will have to be drilled from the outside and
presumably a spacer tub ground and fitted to the inside?
As a comparison, RV's secure their gear legs in almost the same fashion
using a 5/16ths bolt. The only difference is the load is not take
directly by the bolt as the gear legs splay outwards...Then again RV's
are much heavier too.
I'm also wondering if it is that hard to do a single weld at this
location?....Your turned piece will ensure vertical alignment either
way.
Now how on Earth would I find out the thickness of the tube?..:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Possible solution to gear strut failures on
the 601HD and HDS series
-->
Frank,
I don't think the bolt would travel the 4" or more to touch the gear box
in any case.
If Nick approves, I'll turn a set of three 2-inch O.D. tubes stepped for
.058 wall or .065 wall struts with .196
thick plates 3.55 square, not drilled, not welded, for $40.00. If
welded, $50.00. plus postal. The tickler is you finding out which wall
thickness strut you have.
But, we'll have to wait to hear from Nick.
Fly safe,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>-->
>
>Not sure if the bolt head won't hit the underside of the weldment under
>the wing?
>
>I think I have seen evidence the wheelpant gets very close to the
>weldment during rough landings.
>
>Tell us what Zac says Larry...Oh and how much you could knock out some
>sets of stepped tubes while you got your lather set up as well...:)
>
>Welding is not a problem for me but I aint got no lathe!!!...Ain't got
>no cracks either but I could simply include them with the plane when I
>sell it early next year if I haven't gotten around to upgrading before
>then.
>Cheers
>
>Frank
>601 HDS, strstus with Ram heads 385 hours.
>
>
>To: zenith-list
>Subject: Zenith-List: Possible solution to gear strut failures on the
>601HD and HDS series
>
>-->
>
>Anyway, I've placed a link to the drawing that comes up to a printable
>size if you're curious.
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/gear-plate-and-strut.
>gif
>
>Do have a nice Thanksgiving,
>
>Larry McFarland - 601HDS at macsmachine.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre-Heating a 601XL |
Jim,
IMHO, the most important thing to warm up is the oil in the tank and the oil
cooler. You want that warm thinner oil to the bearings and bores fast.
Your approach will certainly make the engine easier to start, but the wear
internally will be quite high.
Cheers
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 601XL Tire Pressure |
Dear Thread Friends, now that we have concluded the best tire pressure for
701s, what is the consensus of the group on 601XL tire pressure ? I started out
at 28 pounds and even down to 22 pounds she wiggles and darts on landings. At
8-12 pounds she seems to waddle on taxi. Whoever has the best correct answer
gets a free flight in my XL just for the asking (all you got to do is catch
me at the airport). Best regards, Bill of Georgia.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow measurement |
Am I missing something?
Jim,
I am installing the same system with fuel flow option. I would guess that
the software installed in the unit to make fuel flow work is part of the cost.
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "george may" <gfmjr_20(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 601XL Tire Pressure |
Bill--
I thought ZAC recommended 50 lbs for the XL tires?
George May
601XL 912S
>From: JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Tire Pressure
>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:49:40 EST
>
>
>Dear Thread Friends, now that we have concluded the best tire pressure for
>701s, what is the consensus of the group on 601XL tire pressure ? I
>started out
>at 28 pounds and even down to 22 pounds she wiggles and darts on landings.
>At
>8-12 pounds she seems to waddle on taxi. Whoever has the best correct
>answer
>gets a free flight in my XL just for the asking (all you got to do is catch
>me at the airport). Best regards, Bill of Georgia.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: XL Nose gear doubler -- P R O B L E M -- |
1.62 GAPPY_SUBJECT Subject: contains G.a.p.p.y-T.e.x.t
]
Just reviewed my old MacDac Design Liaison Engineering Handbook. Minimun bend
radii for 0.190 inch thick 6061-T6 is 15/32 Inch.
Tony Graziano
601XL N493TG
Re: RE: XL Nose gear doubler -- P R O B L E M --
From: Larry McFarland (larrymc(at)qconline.com)
Date: Mon Nov 28 - 10:47 AM
Philip,
You can "easily" cold bend 6061-T6 if you make a jig for the radius.
I bent 3/16-inch forks using two sizes of roller with the center clamped
in place.
If you roll it around a cylinder, there are no major stresses, except
the one you place on yourself. See links, I could have made the
bend-lever longer.
In this case, it's recommended you bend along the aluminum draw lines even
though aluminum doesn't have grain like steel.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/push.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/final-fit.gif
I've got 90 hours on my HDS by now and no problems with the forks.
Larry McFarland plans built 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Condon, Philip M. wrote:
>
>I imagine this is like "questioning the master", but I do question the
>use of 3/16 inch 6061 T6 COLD bend Al.
>That's pretty thick Al. to cold bend, even with a radius. Seems like
>there is major metal weakness introduced with a cold bend with this
>thickness of metal this thickness.....Any thoughts..(see PDF from link
>for note on cold bend)
>
>.......................................................................
>...................................
> XL Nose Gear Doubler
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca> |
| Subject: | RE: XL Nose gear doubler -- P R O B L E M -- |
http://www.ch601.org/tools/nose_brake/nose_brake.htm
Boy you think the 3/16ths is fun to bend have a look at the tool made to
do the 3/8ths nose fork !!! Base design is From Larry and then I added
steroids to the design. Though when it came time to cold bend the 3/8ths
I should have popped a few steroids as well. Seriously Larry designed a
great tool as always, this unit will make a perfect wheel fork and is
dead accurate for producing doublers.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
Philip,
You can "easily" cold bend 6061-T6 if you make a jig for the radius.
I bent 3/16-inch forks using two sizes of roller with the center clamped
in place.
If you roll it around a cylinder, there are no major stresses, except
the one you place on yourself. See links, I could have made the
bend-lever longer.
In this case, it's recommended you bend along the aluminum draw lines
even
though aluminum doesn't have grain like steel.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/push.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/final-fit.gif
I've got 90 hours on my HDS by now and no problems with the forks.
Larry McFarland plans built 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
--
11/27/2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michel Therrien <mtherr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RE: XL Nose gear doubler -- P R O B L E M -- |
I like that! Much simpler than the tool I made for
the same purpose.
I bent 1/4" flat bar easilly with it...no milling or
machine tool required to build the press though. The
die is simply a piece of 2" pipe purchased at Home
Depot. The female die is made with MDF and some
plastic guides (material I had at home). A 6-ton jack
was used.
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/Dcp00819.jpg
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/Dcp00811.jpg
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/Dcp00821.jpg
Details are here:
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/press_forks.htm
If I build other forks (I'm thinking about replacing
my 15X600X6 tires and wheels with 500X5 to reduce drag
and weight), I'll take Larry's way.
Michel
--- Zodie Rocket wrote:
>
>
> http://www.ch601.org/tools/nose_brake/nose_brake.htm
>
>
> Boy you think the 3/16ths is fun to bend have a look
> at the tool made to
> do the 3/8ths nose fork !!! Base design is From
> Larry and then I added
> steroids to the design. Though when it came time to
> cold bend the 3/8ths
> I should have popped a few steroids as well.
> Seriously Larry designed a
> great tool as always, this unit will make a perfect
> wheel fork and is
> dead accurate for producing doublers.
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
> www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
> -----Original Message-----
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Mattson" <dougmattson(at)isp.com> |
| Subject: | Wing twist on 601xl |
Anybody know why the new plans do not show any wing twist?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rlendon(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Dimpling and riveting tool recomendation |
Kevin,
You might save some $$$ by making your own. Check this out:
http://www.ch601.org/tools/dimpler/dimpler.htm
--
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/
>
> I need a recommendation on a good dimpling and riveting tool. I like the
> idea of this particular tool
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/handrivdimptool.php but, don't
> know much about it. It is described as a "hand" tool but doesn't describe
> how to use. Does anyone on this list have it? Does anyone know if it is a
> good tool for dimpling skins? How does it work? I need to install those
> nutplates and 3/32 flush rivets for the Fuse access door. Also would it work
> for the solid rivets for the spars? I have yet to make those. How about
> other suggestions? I have given some though to flush riveting certain
> sections of my plane like wings and fuse. Also with the above tool, do I
> need a rivet gun or can I use a hammer to set the rivets?
>
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
> Nashville TN
>
> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>
> Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>
> <http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <CLEONARD52(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL Tire Pressure |
THE PAPER WORK THAT COMES WITH THE TIRES AND TUBES, SAYS 50 TO 55 IBS. THAT
IS ALSO WHAT ROGER AT ZAC SAYS.
----- Original Message -----
From: <JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Tire Pressure
>
> Dear Thread Friends, now that we have concluded the best tire pressure for
> 701s, what is the consensus of the group on 601XL tire pressure ? I
started out
> at 28 pounds and even down to 22 pounds she wiggles and darts on landings.
At
> 8-12 pounds she seems to waddle on taxi. Whoever has the best correct
answer
> gets a free flight in my XL just for the asking (all you got to do is
catch
> me at the airport). Best regards, Bill of Georgia.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing twist on 601xl |
On my plans, there is considerable twist built into the ailerons.
Perhaps this allows for the rest of the wing to be straight.
Paul
XL wings
At 06:24 PM 11/28/2005, you wrote:
>
>Anybody know why the new plans do not show any wing twist?
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
I'm looking for a source for a rivet copier - at least that is what I think
the name is. Its sort of a transfer gauge. It is used to drill a rivet hole
that is aligned with an existing hole covered by the undrilled sheet metal.
It is basically two metal strips fastened together at one end. The other end
has a stud on one strip and a alignment hole on the other strip. What is it
really called and where can I buy a pair (one for A4 and one of A5)? I've
seen them on some tool web site but can't recall where.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eddie Seve" <eddie.seve(at)clarity.com> |
Hi Craig,
Is this the tool your thinking of.
http://www.ch601.org/tools/flange%20finder/FlangeTool.pdf
Regards,
Eddie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet copier
I'm looking for a source for a rivet copier - at least that is what I
think
the name is. Its sort of a transfer gauge. It is used to drill a rivet
hole
that is aligned with an existing hole covered by the undrilled sheet
metal.
It is basically two metal strips fastened together at one end. The other
end
has a stud on one strip and a alignment hole on the other strip. What is
it
really called and where can I buy a pair (one for A4 and one of A5)?
I've
seen them on some tool web site but can't recall where.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig(at)craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
Not quite but close. That finds the edge of the flange. The tool I am
thinking of is built almost the same way but has a stud that drops into an
existing rivet hole. I'm getting hits in Google when I search for a "strap
duplicator"
http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=SD12140
Now I just need to find one for a #20 bit and A5 rivets. At least I getting
somewhere.
Thanks, Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eddie Seve
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivet copier
Hi Craig,
Is this the tool your thinking of.
http://www.ch601.org/tools/flange%20finder/FlangeTool.pdf
Regards,
Eddie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet copier
November 09, 2005 - November 29, 2005
Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-fe