Tailwind-Archive.digest.vol-ax
December 23, 2002 - January 27, 2003
>>>>>>> re-enter it so it can be located later in an archive search under
>>>> "panel
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> fuel tank". Thanks. Eric
>>>>>>>> From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <168x(at)merr.com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Richard, Fred is right on hinging, forget it. Put two screws on
>>> each
>>>>>> side,
>>>>>>>> remove and the panel is loose. Mount the radio trays so they
> stay
>>>> with
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> panel. Curve the top of the panel at least one inch to prevent
>> oil
>>>>>> canning
>>>>>>>> of the top panel.
>>>>>>>> .025 is to heavy for the firewall. I like to use 28 gauge,
> about
>>>> .015.
>>>>>>> Wicks
>>>>>>>> or Spruce have SS in about .017. If you want, 28 gauge
> galvanized
>>> can
>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> bought locally at a sheet metal shop, it works fine but not as
>>>> pretty.
>>>>>>>> The alum side panels, roll the bottoms around the longerons 1
>> 1/2"
>>>> and
>>>>>>>> fasten to the lower boot cowl. Sandwich the side windows
> between
>>> the
>>>>>> side
>>>>>>>> boot cowl and the top instrument panel with screws going into
> the
>>>>>>> instrument
>>>>>>>> top panel. I make the top panel in three pieces, the sides
> about
>>> six
>>>>>>> inches
>>>>>>>> wide.
>>>>>>>> 1/2" tube is fine for the W/S frame but use .028 or .035. Weld
>> tabs
>>>> to
>>>>>>> screw
>>>>>>>> the W/S to. I will measure how high my panel is and distance
> from
>>> the
>>>>>>> floor
>>>>>>>> when I go to the airport today. Jim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Richard Lamb"
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He never lets me have any fun :(
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I still like that cross tube tho.
>>>>>>>>> It's even a handy spot to secure a (hurrump) non-folding
> panel.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'll tell ya what, tho.
>>>>>>>>> Jim commented about making the tank easily removable.
>>>>>>>>> I'll take that one at face value.
>>>>>>>>> The only thing under the tank are the mount straps
>>>>>>>>> and the fuel line.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've had the front cabin side panels clecoed on.
>>>>>>>>> Trying to get a feel for how to get everything flush and
>>>>>>>>> rolled around to the bottom. That's interesting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I need a firewall material, and, of course, want stainless.
>>>>>>>>> The .025 stuff I've seem locally is twice too heavy.
>>>>>>>>> Any alternate source for .017??
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This weekend, I bent the windshield frame for the parasol.
>>>>>>>>> 1/2" .040 4130 tube. Came out pretty nice. I think I
>>>>>>>>> see how to form the winshield frame for the TW now.
>>>>>>>>> By comparison, that will be easy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Door skins and windows and frames, oh my!
>>>>>>>>> Especially the back window.
>>>>>>>>> I think I see now why the long pointy one is so popular!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Fred Weaver wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yo Richard... You really don't need the hinged panel.
> Hinging
>>> the
>>>>>>> panel
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> just a lot more engineering and you will find out with
> time,
>>> that
>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>> need it at all. Simplify your design by screwing it
>> together...
>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> like you are loading the thing with GPS, Autopilot,
>>>> Radios(plural)
>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>> etc... The stuff you install will be fairly accessible thru
>> the
>>>>> top
>>>>>>>> cover
>>>>>>>>>> of the dash.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Once the plane flies, you will be spending lots of time in
>> the
>>>> air
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> won't be doinking around pivoting your panel down for
>>>> maintenance.
>>>>>>>>>> Honest.....
>>>>>>>>>> Weav
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Richard Lamb
>>>>>>>>>> To:
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Jim.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, that bottom tube looks pretty handy.
>>>>>>>>>>> It's located back three inches from the door frame tube.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have moved the panel aft.
>>>>>>>>>>> The panel itself is back 5 or 6 inches from the door
> frame.
>>>>>>>>>>> There's no obstructions at all for the top row, and the
>> cross
>>>>>>>>>>> tube is 8 or 9 inches (?) in front of the panel.
>>>>>>>>>>> Think that will be enough room?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Some of those panel drawing I did think that lower cross
>> tube
>>>>>>>>>>> would be exactly the right spot to hinge mount an
>> instrument
>>>>>> panel.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The throttle at high center, and the radios in the top of
>> the
>>>>>> panel
>>>>>>>>>>> would have to be mounted permenately. But the rest of the
>>> panel
>>>>>>>>>>> could easily swing down. Having the pivot point back
> behind
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> panel that far lets all the gauges swing clear without
>>> hitting
>>>>>>>>>>> anything. The Tailwind panel is fairly small, and the
>> floors
>>>>>>>>>>> fairly comfortable without a stick sticking in my back.
>>>>>>>>>>> Still, it's an intriguing idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You know better than most people how far back behind that
>>> thing
>>>>>>>>>>> you have to go sometimes...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jim and Donna Clement wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> Clement"
>>>>>>>>>> <168x(at)merr.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Richard, Cut the bottom tube out also, then you can
> make
>>> the
>>>>>> panel
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>> liking. Bring it back enough to get things in with out
>>>> hitting
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> fuel
>>>>>>>>>>>> tank. Jim
>>>>>>>> Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Richard and Jim:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Below is from my files on previous conversations about Tailwind
>>>>>>> construction.
>>>>>>>> Hope it helps.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dallas
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Rick and Cindy"
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> JohnD: Made some measurements of N393RC, floor (1/4" ply) to
>>> bottom
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> fuel tank
>>>>>>>>> (29.8 gal) is 12", floor to bottom of panel is 20 3/4", panel
>> is
>>> 8
>>>>>> 1/8"
>>>>>>> tall,
>>>>>>>>> top of panel to bottom of front spar carry through is 8 3/8".
>>>>>>>>> Rick N393RC
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> john wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm looking for some input on the panel. I measured
> Clements
>>>> panel
>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>> Oshkosh and it measured 19 1/2" to the bottom, 10 1/2" of
>>> panel,
>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>> leaves 7" from the top of the panel, is this about what you
>>>>> fellows
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> come up with in your W-10s'? Clements fuel tank measured 10
>>> 1/2"
>>>>>> above
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> floor. I must have big feet because my shoes measure 12"s',
>>> What
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> everyone doing about the distance from the floor to the
> tank?
>>>>>>> Thankyou.
>>>>>>>>>> JohnD
>>>>>>>> From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <168x(at)merr.com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looks about right, for sure go with the 12" floor to bottom of
>> tank
>>>>>>> height.
>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Dallas Benham"
>>>>>>>> Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: "Louis Owen"
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My floor to tank bottom was 13". I have rather big feet.
>>>>>>>> Lou Owen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Schlanser <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: W-8 Elevators |
Look out Bill. Fred has an attitude toward alternative engines. If you mention
one to him be prepared for a lecture about how they won't work. Eric- been there
From: "Bill newkirk"
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: W-8 Elevators
Fred, Thanks for your thoughts.
I have 2 engines; a 2500 Subaru and an o-235. I have good and not-so-good
feelings about each. The fuselage is quite complete and has outstanding
workmanship - it supposedly was built by a shop in Santa Maria. Because of
the good quality, I have some reluctance to screw it up by "improving" it.
I have a TIG welder and am an okay welder. Jerry Hey told me that I should
fly my Murphy Rebel to Jackson and beg you for a ride. Perhaps after the
new year.
I'm considering your recommendations. Thanks again.
Bill Newkirk
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | USAviator1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Re: W-8 Elevators |
Hey Eric! Haven't heard much from you lately. How are things going? I may
be making a trip your way in the near future. I need to look at your project
to see how things go together.
Have a nice Christmas.
Steve - in Michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | USAviator1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Re: W-8 Elevators |
Hi Dennis! Work on my Tailwind has been kinda slow now that the wx is cold.
I have to heat my garage before I can do anything. I have been welding on
the fuselage now for number of weeks, seems it is hard to find time anymore.
You can see my progress at the YAHOO Tailwind web site. I have a photo album
there.
Nice to hear from you again and hope to see you at OSHKOSH if not sooner.
Merry Christmas to all.
Steve -in Michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternative Engines. |
| From: | Fred Weaver <Mytyweav(at)flash.net> |
Now come on Eric.... I'm generally a good sport about that subject. We
simply didn't agree that the Buick you wanted to install was the best
idea for a "reliable, trouble free" engine. It all comes down to two
kinds of builders.. the ones that want to actually fly and enjoy their
airplane and the ones that want to tinker, repair, fix, mend etc..
instead of fly. I'm not knocking any other powerplants, just the
Buick/Olds thing.
Jerry Hey is working on the Rotary setup and it's looking good. I hope
it works so others can give it a whirl too. The Subaru has had some
hiccups in Glastars and others but I'm hopeful that someone will be
succesful and finish the recipe.
My attitude or opinion is straightforward enough for even a dental guy
to understand. If you want to fly to Wisconsin from California or to
Oregon from Florida, you would be wiser to choose a Lycoming to sit up
front. Then you actually arrive when you thought you would.
Weav
On Monday, December 23, 2002, at 07:23 AM, Eric Schlanser wrote:
>
>
>
> Look out Bill. Fred has an attitude toward alternative engines. If you
> mention one to him be prepared for a lecture about how they won't work.
> Eric- been there
> From: "Bill newkirk"
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: W-8 Elevators
>
>
> Fred, Thanks for your thoughts.
> I have 2 engines; a 2500 Subaru and an o-235. I have good and
> not-so-good
> feelings about each. The fuselage is quite complete and has outstanding
> workmanship - it supposedly was built by a shop in Santa Maria. Because
> of
> the good quality, I have some reluctance to screw it up by "improving"
> it.
> I have a TIG welder and am an okay welder. Jerry Hey told me that I
> should
> fly my Murphy Rebel to Jackson and beg you for a ride. Perhaps after the
> new year.
> I'm considering your recommendations. Thanks again.
>
> Bill Newkirk
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Turner <tailwind222(at)yahoo.com> |
It's really great when you guys write your location at the bottom of your emails
for everyone to know where you live each time. George......Phoenix, Az.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Stroud" <davestroud(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative Engines. |
I'll risk throwing my 2 cents ( actually about 3.1 cents CDN) on this subject.
I put about
280 hours on a Subaru engine with two types of belt redrives, then went to a Corvair
with
a Rinker style gearbox for 28 hours before a minor hiccup and a Lyc. was dropped
in my lap
for a price no sane man would refuse. I've never felt more "comfortable" flying
my plane
ever before. I don't think it is the engine that causes the problems, but the necessary
redrive
they must employ to slow the prop down. Having said that, I've never seen Wittman's
upside
down Buick V8 conversion but, since no redrive is involved, I can't imagine what
the short comings
might be. Dual electronic ignition is a cinch and quite reliable.
Dave Stroud
L 16 B replica (Christavia)
C-FDWS Ottawa, Canada
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)flash.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Alternative Engines.
>
> Now come on Eric.... I'm generally a good sport about that subject. We
> simply didn't agree that the Buick you wanted to install was the best
> idea for a "reliable, trouble free" engine. It all comes down to two
> kinds of builders.. the ones that want to actually fly and enjoy their
> airplane and the ones that want to tinker, repair, fix, mend etc..
> instead of fly. I'm not knocking any other powerplants, just the
> Buick/Olds thing.
> Jerry Hey is working on the Rotary setup and it's looking good. I hope
> it works so others can give it a whirl too. The Subaru has had some
> hiccups in Glastars and others but I'm hopeful that someone will be
> succesful and finish the recipe.
> My attitude or opinion is straightforward enough for even a dental guy
> to understand. If you want to fly to Wisconsin from California or to
> Oregon from Florida, you would be wiser to choose a Lycoming to sit up
> front. Then you actually arrive when you thought you would.
> Weav
> On Monday, December 23, 2002, at 07:23 AM, Eric Schlanser wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Look out Bill. Fred has an attitude toward alternative engines. If you
> > mention one to him be prepared for a lecture about how they won't work.
> > Eric- been there
> > From: "Bill newkirk"
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: W-8 Elevators
> >
> >
> > Fred, Thanks for your thoughts.
> > I have 2 engines; a 2500 Subaru and an o-235. I have good and
> > not-so-good
> > feelings about each. The fuselage is quite complete and has outstanding
> > workmanship - it supposedly was built by a shop in Santa Maria. Because
> > of
> > the good quality, I have some reluctance to screw it up by "improving"
> > it.
> > I have a TIG welder and am an okay welder. Jerry Hey told me that I
> > should
> > fly my Murphy Rebel to Jackson and beg you for a ride. Perhaps after the
> > new year.
> > I'm considering your recommendations. Thanks again.
> >
> > Bill Newkirk
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Estelle Danner" <edanner(at)jvlnet.com> |
| Subject: | Bob Danner's phone # |
Hi Fred thanks for your kind words! I think I will just go to New Orleans tomorrow!
Opps! Chirstmas tomorrow night have to stay home & see what Mrs. santa will
bring me!!!
Call me anytime. # is: 608 522 5929
Bob Danner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Davstamsta(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Remote Oil Filter |
All,
I've been working on the engine. I have Jerry Hey's Dynofocal engine mount.
Seems real tight to the fire wall. I have an o-320 E2D that came with a spin
on oil filter. It does not have clearance to the firewall. I also got an
airwolf remote, but the hose fittings run into the clearance problem as well.
What should I do:
1. Put on an old oil screen? (Does anyone have one?)
2. Build a new engine mount?
3. Remake the gas tank and firewall so I have a pocket.
4. ????
Happy Holidays!
David Stamsta
Michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Davstamsta(at)aol.com |
Hi Gang,
All the talk on the panel recently was perfect timing. I've cut all the
holes, and have begun wiring. Where have you put the push to talk? I'm
thinking of welding a little tab on the stick. Any thoughts?
My panel comes forward about 7 inches. I've got a big gas tank.
Also, I just welded a battery support behind the left seat. Just two parallel
5/8x.035 going from the longeron to the diagonal. How have other guys done it?
Happy holidays to all!
David Stamsta N917WT(sent in as first choice.)
Michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dallas Benham" <dlbenham(at)smithville.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Remote Oil Filter |
Dave : Install a 90 degree oilfilter adapter from B&C specialties. Here is their
website.
http://www.bandcspecialty.com/
Dallas
160TW (res)
southern Indiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Push-to-talk |
| From: | Fred Weaver <Mytyweav(at)flash.net> |
A couple of things Dave.... You can easily mount the push to talk
switch in the opening of the stick tube. It's much easier to operate
when in the landing configuration and trying to fly and talk at the same
time. You can also mount a remote for both you and your passenger on the
dash in case the one in the stick takes a dive.
About the location of your Battery.... The battery should be mounted
on the right hand side of the plane behind the passenger seat. Reason?
Because the Tailwind flies so good, you need to offset pilot weight
whenever you can to obtain lateral trim when flying solo. If it's not a
big deal to move it over now, I suggest you consider it.
Have fun,
Weav
On Monday, December 23, 2002, at 08:34 PM, Davstamsta(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi Gang,
> All the talk on the panel recently was perfect timing. I've cut all the
> holes, and have begun wiring. Where have you put the push to talk? I'm
> thinking of welding a little tab on the stick. Any thoughts?
>
> My panel comes forward about 7 inches. I've got a big gas tank.
>
> Also, I just welded a battery support behind the left seat. Just two
> parallel
> 5/8x.035 going from the longeron to the diagonal. How have other guys
> done it?
>
> Happy holidays to all!
> David Stamsta N917WT(sent in as first choice.)
> Michigan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Lamb <lamb01(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Push-to-talk |
I guess this one is out of the question?
> http://www.flash.net/~lamb01/joystick.gif
my parasol's stick.
Last night I covered the fin.
Figured I start with the hard part.
I haven't covered anything in a while and felt
like I was all thumbs for a while.
But it came out pretty nice.
Tonight, I put the tapes on the fin.
Imagine shrinking a 3" wide non-biased tape around
a 1" tube bent on a 4" radius. Leading edge frame tubes.
Mom called and asked what I was doing.
Mom's are like that.
I told her, "Ironing the airplane". :)
Davstamsta(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Hi Gang,
> All the talk on the panel recently was perfect timing. I've cut all the
> holes, and have begun wiring. Where have you put the push to talk? I'm
> thinking of welding a little tab on the stick. Any thoughts?
>
> My panel comes forward about 7 inches. I've got a big gas tank.
>
> Also, I just welded a battery support behind the left seat. Just two parallel
> 5/8x.035 going from the longeron to the diagonal. How have other guys done it?
>
> Happy holidays to all!
> David Stamsta N917WT(sent in as first choice.)
> Michigan
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <dmagaw(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Push-to-talk |
I put my battery behind the right seat--to help balance with single pilot on
the left. I have upright sticks (under the leg) and PTT is mounted in a
little turned aluminum button that fits into the end of the stick. Make
sure you use a good button, my first one turned intermittant in about 3
flights.
Dave
N202Q
----- Original Message -----
From: <Davstamsta(at)aol.com>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Push-to-talk
>
> Hi Gang,
> All the talk on the panel recently was perfect timing. I've cut all the
> holes, and have begun wiring. Where have you put the push to talk? I'm
> thinking of welding a little tab on the stick. Any thoughts?
>
> My panel comes forward about 7 inches. I've got a big gas tank.
>
> Also, I just welded a battery support behind the left seat. Just two
parallel
> 5/8x.035 going from the longeron to the diagonal. How have other guys done
it?
>
> Happy holidays to all!
> David Stamsta N917WT(sent in as first choice.)
> Michigan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Davstamsta(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Push-to-talk |
Correction: The battery is behind the passenger seat. I'm dyslexic. Just
wondering what folks did for the mount.
Thanks for your help!
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flamini2" <flamini2(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Battery and remote oil filter |
looks like JC just put 2 angles and a crossmember, see photo of 180 HP trike.
i got the remote on my 180HP Tailwind with some 45 deg fittings, will try to get
a photo to you. also see photo from the side.
The photos won't make it to the list but if anyone else is interested just e-mail
me.
Dennis and Fran in Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Push-to-talk |
Dave
After ripping out my PTT wire getting in to my TW one stop before Oshkosh
button in my panel in the upper left corner. I did so because I had a hole
to fill from a primer I decided against. It turns out that my temporary fix
was a permanent one. I love it , no wires to trip over and best of all when
you are coming in the pattern in rough air you place you hand on top of the
panel to hold on and push with your thumb!
Earl-NY
NX264WM
N18263-Buttercup
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Push-to-talk
>
> I put my battery behind the right seat--to help balance with single pilot
on
> the left. I have upright sticks (under the leg) and PTT is mounted in a
> little turned aluminum button that fits into the end of the stick. Make
> sure you use a good button, my first one turned intermittant in about 3
> flights.
> Dave
> N202Q
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Davstamsta(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Tailwind-List: Push-to-talk
>
>
> >
> > Hi Gang,
> > All the talk on the panel recently was perfect timing. I've cut all the
> > holes, and have begun wiring. Where have you put the push to talk? I'm
> > thinking of welding a little tab on the stick. Any thoughts?
> >
> > My panel comes forward about 7 inches. I've got a big gas tank.
> >
> > Also, I just welded a battery support behind the left seat. Just two
> parallel
> > 5/8x.035 going from the longeron to the diagonal. How have other guys
done
> it?
> >
> > Happy holidays to all!
> > David Stamsta N917WT(sent in as first choice.)
> > Michigan
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)att.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Push-to-talk
> Dave
> After ripping out my PTT wire getting in to my TW one stop before
Oshkosh
> , I decided to do something different. I installed a heavy duty door bell
> button in my panel in the upper left corner. I did so because I had a hole
> to fill from a primer I decided against. It turns out that my temporary
fix
> was a permanent one. I love it , no wires to trip over and best of all
when
> you are coming in the pattern in rough air you place you hand on top of
the
> panel to hold on and push with your thumb!
> Earl-NY
> NX264WM
> N18263-Buttercup
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 8:11 AM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Push-to-talk
>
>
> >
> > I put my battery behind the right seat--to help balance with single
pilot
> on
> > the left. I have upright sticks (under the leg) and PTT is mounted in a
> > little turned aluminum button that fits into the end of the stick. Make
> > sure you use a good button, my first one turned intermittant in about 3
> > flights.
> > Dave
> > N202Q
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Davstamsta(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Tailwind-List: Push-to-talk
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hi Gang,
> > > All the talk on the panel recently was perfect timing. I've cut all
the
> > > holes, and have begun wiring. Where have you put the push to talk? I'm
> > > thinking of welding a little tab on the stick. Any thoughts?
> > >
> > > My panel comes forward about 7 inches. I've got a big gas tank.
> > >
> > > Also, I just welded a battery support behind the left seat. Just two
> > parallel
> > > 5/8x.035 going from the longeron to the diagonal. How have other guys
> done
> > it?
> > >
> > > Happy holidays to all!
> > > David Stamsta N917WT(sent in as first choice.)
> > > Michigan
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Ward" <russward(at)hotmail.com> |
There are only 2 rules about Tailwinds that I know of:
Rule #1 when building/ dreaming about building a tailwind - don't listen to
anything Fred Weaver has to say. Fred probably has more experience in cross
country trips and coast to coast trips than anyone I know. Its just too
frustrating listening to him to be of any value. 'Well this morning I flew
up to Boise for lunch - it took over 2 hours each way, then this afternoon,
I had to meet a couple of guys down at Hemet' is pretty common. Very
frustrating for us wannabees.
Rule #2
Never go flying with Fred. I made the mistake of doing it twice. The first
time was in his 0300 powered White/Blue Beast. The nicest handling plane I
had ever flown. I have quite a but of time in old biplanes, and old radial
engined machines (Cessna 195, Twin Beech) as well as a bunch if time in
Luscombes etc, but this Tailwind was the most nimble plane I had ever been
in. I flipped it over 90degrees into a 180 degree turn to the left, it was
descending at 1000fpm. I applied top (right) rudder. The plane started
climbing at 600 fpm. There were only two words I could think of. (No, not
the two you are thinking of).
The other flight was worse. The White/Read Beast with 180hp fixed pitch.
We took off out of Reid one friday afternoon, lightly loaded. Fred climbed
out at over 2000fpm doing barrel rolls. No Fair!! He really knows how to
torture a guy. We leveled off at 3000ft and pulled back the power. 21" at
2280rpm - the airspeed indicator showed 185mph. This plane handled even
better than the White/Blue one. The same two words were floating round in my
head. We landed. Fred looked me and said - well what do you think. My
vocabulary had been reduced to two words, and they finally came out.. "Want
One!!"
A few years ago I was thinking about building an RV6 (got as far as building
the tail). There was a big group of RV builders over at Livermore. They were
divided into 2 groups, those who had 200hp and constant speed props, and
those who wished they had, because they had flown an RV with 200hp and
constant speed. Same applies to this group.
A corvair engine is probably a good choice for a Tailwind, so is a Buick or
a Subaru. Things will go well, till you fly with Fred. Your vocabulary will
be reduced to two words, as mine has been. You have been warned.
Meryy christmas to all..
Russ
MSN 8 limited-time offer: Join now and get 3 months FREE*.
http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_newmsn8ishere_3mf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Turner <tailwind222(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remote Oil Filter |
Dave: I had the same oil filter problem. I built a square recess into my fuel
tank and matching recess in the firewall. Another idea is to use an aluminum
kitchen bowl in the tank and a stainless steel bowl in the firewall. If you
use a remote location be sure that all the fittings and hoses are safe........my
buddy had a problem with a fitting and lost all his oil on his long eze.......just
before he landed......no damage to the engine. The more stuff, the more
potential for a problem.
On my present Tailwind, 0320E3D Lyc. again....the builder extended the engine mount
enuf......works fine......but moves the cg forward a little.
George.....Phoenix ( warm location )
All,
I've been working on the engine. I have Jerry Hey's Dynofocal engine mount.
Seems real tight to the fire wall. I have an o-320 E2D that came with a spin
on oil filter. It does not have clearance to the firewall. I also got an
airwolf remote, but the hose fittings run into the clearance problem as well.
What should I do:
1. Put on an old oil screen? (Does anyone have one?)
2. Build a new engine mount?
3. Remake the gas tank and firewall so I have a pocket.
4. ????
Happy Holidays!
David Stamsta
Michigan
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RJ <gatsby8898(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remote Oil Filter |
Dave, I tried several locations for the Air Wolf
remote oil filter, finally settled on left upper area
of the firewall with a 90 degree mount and 2 45 degree
oil line fittings. The 90 degree, (vertical), position
should make it less messy changing filters. The mount
came with the filter conversion from Air Wolf. RJ
--- Davstamsta(at)aol.com wrote:
> Davstamsta(at)aol.com
>
> All,
> I've been working on the engine. I have Jerry Hey's
> Dynofocal engine mount.
> Seems real tight to the fire wall. I have an o-320
> E2D that came with a spin
> on oil filter. It does not have clearance to the
> firewall. I also got an
> airwolf remote, but the hose fittings run into the
> clearance problem as well.
> What should I do:
> 1. Put on an old oil screen? (Does anyone have one?)
> 2. Build a new engine mount?
> 3. Remake the gas tank and firewall so I have a
> pocket.
> 4. ????
>
> Happy Holidays!
> David Stamsta
> Michigan
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
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>
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>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:Flying with Fred |
| From: | Fred Weaver <Mytyweav(at)flash.net> |
So Russ..... Are you saying you had way too much fun? hahhahaha...
To the rest of the group: Poor ole Russ has been shopping for a Tailwind
ever since he got his rides. The funny thing is, he has driven up the
west coast to Washington state and all the way down to Arizona looking
at projects for sale and he still hasn't bitten the bullet. No wonder
he's frustrated :) Flying that 195 or the Beech just costs too
much. Time to get with the program and pick up a nice "Flying"
Tailwind. Does anyone know if Bill See still has his project for sale?
Happy Holidays to all.....
Weav
On Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 10:00 AM, Russ Ward wrote:
>
> There are only 2 rules about Tailwinds that I know of:
> Rule #1 when building/ dreaming about building a tailwind - don't
> listen to
> anything Fred Weaver has to say. Fred probably has more experience in
> cross
> country trips and coast to coast trips than anyone I know. Its just too
> frustrating listening to him to be of any value. 'Well this morning I
> flew
> up to Boise for lunch - it took over 2 hours each way, then this
> afternoon,
> I had to meet a couple of guys down at Hemet' is pretty common. Very
> frustrating for us wannabees.
> Rule #2
> Never go flying with Fred. I made the mistake of doing it twice. The
> first
> time was in his 0300 powered White/Blue Beast. The nicest handling
> plane I
> had ever flown. I have quite a but of time in old biplanes, and old
> radial
> engined machines (Cessna 195, Twin Beech) as well as a bunch if time in
> Luscombes etc, but this Tailwind was the most nimble plane I had ever
> been
> in. I flipped it over 90degrees into a 180 degree turn to the left, it
> was
> descending at 1000fpm. I applied top (right) rudder. The plane started
> climbing at 600 fpm. There were only two words I could think of. (No,
> not
> the two you are thinking of).
> The other flight was worse. The White/Read Beast with 180hp fixed pitch.
> We took off out of Reid one friday afternoon, lightly loaded. Fred
> climbed
> out at over 2000fpm doing barrel rolls. No Fair!! He really knows how to
> torture a guy. We leveled off at 3000ft and pulled back the power. 21"
> at
> 2280rpm - the airspeed indicator showed 185mph. This plane handled even
> better than the White/Blue one. The same two words were floating round
> in my
> head. We landed. Fred looked me and said - well what do you think. My
> vocabulary had been reduced to two words, and they finally came out..
> "Want
> One!!"
>
> A few years ago I was thinking about building an RV6 (got as far as
> building
> the tail). There was a big group of RV builders over at Livermore. They
> were
> divided into 2 groups, those who had 200hp and constant speed props, and
> those who wished they had, because they had flown an RV with 200hp and
> constant speed. Same applies to this group.
> A corvair engine is probably a good choice for a Tailwind, so is a
> Buick or
> a Subaru. Things will go well, till you fly with Fred. Your vocabulary
> will
> be reduced to two words, as mine has been. You have been warned.
> Meryy christmas to all..
> Russ
>
>
> MSN 8 limited-time offer: Join now and get 3 months FREE*.
> http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-
> bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_newmsn8ishere_3mf
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kenneth Graves <kbgraves(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/20/02 |
For those of you responding to a message you can
delete the tag along stuff by left clicking on the
original message and draging to the end then pressing
delete. Saves alot of space. I did not do that here to
show what happens.
Ken
--- Tailwind-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can be also be
> found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file
> includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and
> features Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file
> includes the plain ASCII
> version of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be
> viewed with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/tailwind-list/Digest.Tailwind-List.2002-12-20.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/tailwind-list/Digest.Tailwind-List.2002-12-20.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
>
>
> Tailwind-List Digest
> Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri
> 12/20/02: 3
>
>
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 08:30 PM - Re: Re: W-8 Elevators (Bill
> newkirk)
> 2. 08:41 PM - Re: Re: W-8 Elevators ()
> 3. 09:07 PM - Re: Re: W-8 Elevators (Richard
> Lamb)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: W-8 Elevators
>
>
>
> The W-8 project I have inherited has no provision
> for balancing the
> elevators. Is this important? Should the elevators
> be modified similar to
> W-10 elevators?
>
> Bill Newkirk
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank
> was re: hot steel
>
>
> > The strap 'T" bolts can also be taken from those
> expensive hose clamps
> that
> > they sell at hydraulic shops. They are also
> stainless.
> >
> > Also, Jim C, what is a 'boot cowl'?
> >
> > Bill Newkirk
> > W - 8 1/2
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 7:57 PM
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel
> tank was re: hot steel
> >
> >
> Donna Clement"
> > <168x(at)merr.com>
> > >
> > > Bill, They make a strap bolt just for fuel tank
> straps. I buy them for
> > about
> > > $2-3 each from the hardware vender at OSH.
> Forget the name, he is the
> one
> > > with lots of stuff in a big tent. Also sells
> cowhides. Someone here will
> > > come up with his name, from Wichita area. It is
> a three inch tee bolt.
> you
> > > put a hole in your strap, then bend the short
> end around and either weld
> > or
> > > rivet to itself.
> > > Make your tank 12" from the floor and pound a
> sump [big dent about 1/2"
> > > deep, 6-7" diameter] with a outlet welded in.
> start bending the tank
> > > gradually up towards the inst. panel within 2-3"
> from the rear edge of
> the
> > > sump. Reason being, if the tank is flat beyond
> the fuel pickup, fuel
> runs
> > > towards the rear of the tank and pulls fuel out
> of and away from the
> > pickup.
> > > This happens when take off is attempted with low
> fuel, 6-7 gallons or
> so.
> > > Make the tank same width, don't try to taper to
> match the fuselage
> > > dimension. Give yourself no less than 1/2"
> clearance on each side, they
> > seem
> > > to grow during construction and welding. You
> might have to cut off the
> > upper
> > > corners in the front as the engine mount bolts
> may hit. Put the vent in
> > the
> > > filler neck. Use a short rubber hose to connect
> filler cap assy. to
> filler
> > > neck. Fuel proof hose can be bought at NAPA
> store. Use a mechanical fuel
> > > gauge sender that measures ohms to the electric
> guage. Mount the sender
> in
> > > the top of the tank, make sure it clears the
> center baffle. I have had
> > three
> > > probe type senders and they are junk as far as I
> am concerned. Stainless
> > > makes a nice fuel tank strap but another is
> steel strapping used to
> crate
> > > things. Just about any dumpster at a
> manufacturing plant has lots of it.
> > > Jim
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Eric Schlanser" <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank
> was re: hot steel
> > >
> > >
> Schlanser
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Group, This thread is too good to file under
> "hot steel". I just
> needed
> > to
> > > re-enter it so it can be located later in an
> archive search under "panel
> > and
> > > fuel tank". Thanks. Eric
> > > > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> > > >
> Donna Clement"
> > > <168x(at)merr.com>
> > > >
> > > > Richard, Fred is right on hinging, forget it.
> Put two screws on each
> > side,
> > > > remove and the panel is loose. Mount the radio
> trays so they stay with
> > the
>
=== message truncated ===
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Stroud" <davestroud(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Flying with Fred |
There's Cougar for sale in Oregon..so far the bid is $1,600 or so incl and C-85.
The seller sent me a series of pics if anyone needs them quickly. Sale ends in
21 hours
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26428&item=1874964126&rd=1
Dave Stroud
L 16 B replica (Christavia)
C-FDWS Ottawa, Canada
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)flash.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re:Flying with Fred
>
> So Russ..... Are you saying you had way too much fun? hahhahaha...
>
> To the rest of the group: Poor ole Russ has been shopping for a Tailwind
> ever since he got his rides. The funny thing is, he has driven up the
> west coast to Washington state and all the way down to Arizona looking
> at projects for sale and he still hasn't bitten the bullet. No wonder
> he's frustrated :) Flying that 195 or the Beech just costs too
> much. Time to get with the program and pick up a nice "Flying"
> Tailwind. Does anyone know if Bill See still has his project for sale?
>
> Happy Holidays to all.....
> Weav
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christian Bobka" <bobka(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Flying with Fred |
send me the pictures at bobka(at)charter.net
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
Stroud
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re:Flying with Fred
There's Cougar for sale in Oregon..so far the bid is $1,600 or so incl and
C-85.
The seller sent me a series of pics if anyone needs them quickly. Sale ends
in
21 hours
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26428&item
=1874964126&rd=1
Dave Stroud
L 16 B replica (Christavia)
C-FDWS Ottawa, Canada
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)flash.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re:Flying with Fred
>
> So Russ..... Are you saying you had way too much fun? hahhahaha...
>
> To the rest of the group: Poor ole Russ has been shopping for a Tailwind
> ever since he got his rides. The funny thing is, he has driven up the
> west coast to Washington state and all the way down to Arizona looking
> at projects for sale and he still hasn't bitten the bullet. No wonder
> he's frustrated :) Flying that 195 or the Beech just costs too
> much. Time to get with the program and pick up a nice "Flying"
> Tailwind. Does anyone know if Bill See still has his project for sale?
>
> Happy Holidays to all.....
> Weav
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Remote Oil Filter |
>
>
>Dave: I had the same oil filter problem. I built a square recess
>into my fuel tank and matching recess in the firewall. Another idea
>is to use an aluminum kitchen bowl in the tank and a stainless steel
>bowl in the firewall. If you use a remote location be sure that all
>the fittings and hoses are safe........my buddy had a problem with a
>fitting and lost all his oil on his long eze.......just before he
>landed......no damage to the engine. The more stuff, the more
>potential for a problem.
>On my present Tailwind, 0320E3D Lyc. again....the builder extended
>the engine mount enuf......works fine......but moves the cg forward
>a little.
>George.....Phoenix ( warm location )
>Davstamsta(at)aol.com
>
>All,
>I've been working on the engine. I have Jerry Hey's Dynofocal engine mount.
>Seems real tight to the fire wall. I have an o-320 E2D that came with a spin
>on oil filter. It does not have clearance to the firewall. I also got an
>airwolf remote, but the hose fittings run into the clearance problem as well.
>What should I do:
>1. Put on an old oil screen? (Does anyone have one?)
>2. Build a new engine mount?
>3. Remake the gas tank and firewall so I have a pocket.
>4. ????
>
>Happy Holidays!
>David Stamsta
>Michigan
>
>
>---------------------------------
Dave, the 0-320 engine mount I build is designed to place the
machined part of the rear case 9 inches from the fire wall assuming
that the bushing in the fuselage sticks out from the fire wall 5/16
inch. It seems to me you could use a spacer-bushing to move the
engine mount (and gear legs) forward just a bit to gain more space.
The battery could be moved back to compensate the c.g. if necessary.
I suspect that there is a some tolerance to work with when installing
the 0-320 as it is lighter than the 0-360 which is installed same
distance from the fire wall. The above is guess work on my
part. Jim or Rick can correct me if I am wrong. I do know that
you will not have any C.G. issues with the 0-320 at the 9 inch
location. Regards, Jerry
>
>
--
Jerry Hey
Tailwind & Rotary Engine Support
http://www.j-winddesigns.com
mailto:j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Turner <tailwind222(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remote Oil Filter |
Dave: My recess in the firewall to be able to remove the filter was around three
and a half inches I recall. I believe the engine mount was as to plans.
George.....Phoenix
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick and Cindy <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Push-to-talk |
Dave: I'll send you a pic of the ptt in 3RC.
Rick N241SW
Davstamsta(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi Gang,
> All the talk on the panel recently was perfect timing. I've cut all the
> holes, and have begun wiring. Where have you put the push to talk? I'm
> thinking of welding a little tab on the stick. Any thoughts?
>
> My panel comes forward about 7 inches. I've got a big gas tank.
>
> Also, I just welded a battery support behind the left seat. Just two parallel
> 5/8x.035 going from the longeron to the diagonal. How have other guys done it?
>
> Happy holidays to all!
> David Stamsta N917WT(sent in as first choice.)
> Michigan
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <dmagaw(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines |
We shall see how a W-8 with O-320 that has W-10 sized tailfeathers works in
a few months.
Dave
N202Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines |
Dave, already tried that, flies just like a W10. TW checkout pilot Fred flew
it, he may have a comment or two. Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Alternative engines
>
> We shall see how a W-8 with O-320 that has W-10 sized tailfeathers works
in
> a few months.
> Dave
> N202Q
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines |
Fred et al;
I'm still considering increasing the size of the stab on my W-8. Do you
think an O-235 is light enough to leave the tail-feathers stock?
Bill Newkirk
Fresno, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Alternative engines
>
> We shall see how a W-8 with O-320 that has W-10 sized tailfeathers works
in
> a few months.
> Dave
> N202Q
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave M" <dmagaw(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines |
Just my opinion, but Jim C, Fred and I think others, recommended when I was
building my W-8, to go with the W-10 tail feathers, and I think that was a
very smart thing to do. I made my elevator ends rounded per W-8 style (more
work but looks better), and the stab bolt is about 3" behind the leading
edge (bolts through from inside the fuse to a locking nutplate in the stab,
then bolt head is safety wired). My elevators are balanced. My plane has a
very nice feel to it both flying and landing, however, I think that the
longer W-10 fuselage allows for a little less decalage of the stab than my
W-8 with the shorter fuselage. Nice thing, now that I am upgrading my O-235
to and O-320, won't have to worry about smaller stab.
My opinion only FWIW.
Dave
N202Q
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Alternative engines
>
> Fred et al;
> I'm still considering increasing the size of the stab on my W-8. Do you
> think an O-235 is light enough to leave the tail-feathers stock?
>
> Bill Newkirk
> Fresno, CA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Alternative engines
>
>
> >
> > We shall see how a W-8 with O-320 that has W-10 sized tailfeathers works
> in
> > a few months.
> > Dave
> > N202Q
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines |
Bill, How were you going to increase the size? Length or cordwise. You might
get by with just adding the three inch counterbalance ends on the elevators
like the W10. The increase in size of the W10 is mostly the cord
dimensions.
The O320 Tailwind Cy was referring to was a trigear with a constant speed.
It was later changed to a taildragger with the O300 Cont. This was the last
TW Steve built and was mostly W8. The W10 came along in about 1976 or 77.
That is when the Baraboo bunch started building the first W10s. The plans at
that time were incomplete and Steve gave us W8 plans with W10 dimensions
written in. Jerry Coughlin was the first to finish and I was next. Jerry's
TW is now owned by Skip Lovell ar Fort Bragg, CA and mine is owned by Al
Moldenhauer at New Glarus, WI. He is converting it to a O320. Jerome
Thiesson was the third to finish and was later sold to Fred.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Alternative engines
>
> Fred et al;
> I'm still considering increasing the size of the stab on my W-8. Do you
> think an O-235 is light enough to leave the tail-feathers stock?
>
> Bill Newkirk
> Fresno, CA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Alternative engines
>
>
> >
> > We shall see how a W-8 with O-320 that has W-10 sized tailfeathers works
> in
> > a few months.
> > Dave
> > N202Q
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Bernard" <billbernard(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank filler |
This is mainly a question for Jim Clement, but anyone is welcome to respond.
I'm in the process of buiding the fuel tank, using Jim C's article in the
Tailwind Times as a guide. He suggests welding a 2" piece of aluminum tubing
onto the cap flange.
I got the specified flange and cap assembly and when the 2 inch tubing is
inserted into the flange for welding, the fuel cap projects above the top of
the flange by about 1/4". I suspect that the 2" aluminum extension acts as a
stop to keep the top of the fuel cap flush with the outside of the
windshield. Is this correct? Is the hole in the windshield chamfered to
match the angle of the fuel cap, and if so, how does one go about it,
without cracking the windshield?
Also, what sort of sealant is used between the flange and the windshield?
Thanks for the help
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank filler |
Bill, I might have given you some wrong info. The 2" tubing should be the
same OD as the filler assy. It is welded to the assy. to make it longer for
better clamping of the filler rubber hose. The flange on the filler assy.
goes on the ouside of the windshield. You might need a 2 1/8 or 2 14' piece
of tubing or bend one up from .050.
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Bernard" <billbernard(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Fuel tank filler
>
> This is mainly a question for Jim Clement, but anyone is welcome to
respond.
>
> I'm in the process of buiding the fuel tank, using Jim C's article in the
> Tailwind Times as a guide. He suggests welding a 2" piece of aluminum
tubing
> onto the cap flange.
>
> I got the specified flange and cap assembly and when the 2 inch tubing is
> inserted into the flange for welding, the fuel cap projects above the top
of
> the flange by about 1/4". I suspect that the 2" aluminum extension acts as
a
> stop to keep the top of the fuel cap flush with the outside of the
> windshield. Is this correct? Is the hole in the windshield chamfered to
> match the angle of the fuel cap, and if so, how does one go about it,
> without cracking the windshield?
>
> Also, what sort of sealant is used between the flange and the windshield?
>
> Thanks for the help
>
> Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines |
Thanks, all, for your replies. I'm giving the subject serious
head-scratching.
Question: Should 4130 be bent cold or heated.
Thanks,
Bill Newkirk
Fresno, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Alternative engines
<168x(at)merr.com>
>
> Bill, How were you going to increase the size? Length or cordwise. You
might
> get by with just adding the three inch counterbalance ends on the
elevators
> like the W10. The increase in size of the W10 is mostly the cord
> dimensions.
>
> The O320 Tailwind Cy was referring to was a trigear with a constant speed.
> It was later changed to a taildragger with the O300 Cont. This was the
last
> TW Steve built and was mostly W8. The W10 came along in about 1976 or 77.
> That is when the Baraboo bunch started building the first W10s. The plans
at
> that time were incomplete and Steve gave us W8 plans with W10 dimensions
> written in. Jerry Coughlin was the first to finish and I was next. Jerry's
> TW is now owned by Skip Lovell ar Fort Bragg, CA and mine is owned by Al
> Moldenhauer at New Glarus, WI. He is converting it to a O320. Jerome
> Thiesson was the third to finish and was later sold to Fred.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Alternative engines
>
>
> >
> > Fred et al;
> > I'm still considering increasing the size of the stab on my W-8. Do you
> > think an O-235 is light enough to leave the tail-feathers stock?
> >
> > Bill Newkirk
> > Fresno, CA
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dave" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Alternative engines
> >
> >
> > >
> > > We shall see how a W-8 with O-320 that has W-10 sized tailfeathers
works
> > in
> > > a few months.
> > > Dave
> > > N202Q
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Alley <n320wt(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines |
Bill, Depends on what your bending, I used square 4130
for my windshield frame bent cold. Most stuff like
flattening tubes are easily bent cold, but if it's
really close to a weld you might as well heat it up
cause when you weld near anything bent cold it will
change shape.
=====
BRIAN ALLEY (BKA)
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Turner <tailwind222(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fred Stuebner Tailwind |
Does anyone know where Fred's (Stuebner) tailwind is now that He built in the early
60's or where He is living now. He built it when He was in Chicago and then
sold it and moved to NY at that time, I believe.. George......Phoenix
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike_tailwind(at)att.net |
What are most guys using for flooring for the cabin and bagage compartment?
If you go with aluminum are you using stiffeners?
Thanks,
Mike Wilson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Floor material |
Aluminum foot board in cabin (with lightening holes in area that feet don't
rest in), and fabric baggage area stiffened with aluminum tubing in sleeves
in bottom. Very light and functional, but not an award winning interior.
Dave
N202Q
----- Original Message -----
From: <mike_tailwind(at)att.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Floor material
>
> What are most guys using for flooring for the cabin and bagage
compartment?
> If you go with aluminum are you using stiffeners?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike Wilson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)att.net> |
I would like to take this time to wish Jim a happy birthday and have Donna give
him a great big kiss from all of us Tailwinders who probably wouldn't have had
one without him !
Love your pals
Earl & Laura
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dallas Benham" <dlbenham(at)smithville.net> |
Hey Earl:
Since the kissing is by proxy is guess it's ok! You know how people jump to conclusions.
I would
like shake his hand and give him a pat on the back for all of the information he
has provided for us
to use at no charge!!!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY JIM! May you have many, many more. Don't you feel cheated though,
with Christmas
and your birthday so close together.
Dallas Benham
Southern Indiana
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)att.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Jim C's B-day
>
> I would like to take this time to wish Jim a happy birthday and have Donna give
him a great big
kiss from all of us Tailwinders who probably wouldn't have had one without him
!
> Love your pals
> Earl & Laura
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dallas Benham" <dlbenham(at)smithville.net> |
I'll try it one more time.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dallas Benham" <dlbenham(at)smithville.net>
Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: Jim C's B-day
> Hey Earl:
>
> Since the kissing is by proxy is guess it's ok! You know how people jump to
conclusions. I
would
> like shake his hand and give him a pat on the back for all of the information
he has provided for
us
> to use at no charge!!!
>
> HAPPY BIRTHDAY JIM! May you have many, many more. Don't you feel cheated
though, with
Christmas
> and your birthday so close together.
>
> Dallas Benham
> Southern Indiana
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)att.net>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 4:30 PM
> Subject: Tailwind-List: Jim C's B-day
>
>
> >
> > I would like to take this time to wish Jim a happy birthday and have Donna
give him a great big
> kiss from all of us Tailwinders who probably wouldn't have had one without him
!
> > Love your pals
> > Earl & Laura
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dallas Benham" <dlbenham(at)smithville.net> |
| Subject: | Jim C's birthday |
Maybe I'll get it to work yet! dlb
> Hey Earl:
>
> Since the kissing is by proxy is guess it's ok! You know how people jump to
conclusions. I
would
> like shake his hand and give him a pat on the back for all of the information
he has provided for
us
> to use at no charge!!!
>
> HAPPY BIRTHDAY JIM! May you have many, many more. Don't you feel cheated
though, with
Christmas
> and your birthday so close together.
>
> Dallas Benham
> Southern Indiana
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dallas Benham" <dlbenham(at)smithville.net> |
| Subject: | Jim C's Birthday |
Guys:
Really, I can fly a lot better than I can operate this computer!
dlb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Jim C's B-day |
| From: | Fred Weaver <Mytyweav(at)flash.net> |
Happy Birthday Jim!! Yahooooo, and happy new year too!
Weav
On Monday, December 30, 2002, at 01:30 PM, Earl Luce wrote:
>
> I would like to take this time to wish Jim a happy birthday and have
> Donna give him a great big kiss from all of us Tailwinders who probably
> wouldn't have had one without him !
> Love your pals
> Earl & Laura
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Alley <n320wt(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jim C's B-day |
Happy Birthday Jim, Thanks for all that you contribute
to the Tailwind! I know mine is faster and better
looking than it would be if not for your advice.
=====
BRIAN ALLEY (BKA)
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jim C's B-day |
Thanks all of you for the Happy Birthdays. Never thought I would last this
long. Born December 31 1938, Have no idea where the last 40 years went. Jim
C
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)att.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Jim C's B-day
>
> I would like to take this time to wish Jim a happy birthday and have Donna
give him a great big kiss from all of us Tailwinders who probably wouldn't
have had one without him !
> Love your pals
> Earl & Laura
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Floor material |
Mike, Aluminum will require some type of stiffening. I've been using 1/4"
luan plywood from the local lumber yard. It measures a short 1/4" and is
fairly light. I think it is used for underlayment over plywood floors in
house construction. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: <mike_tailwind(at)att.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Floor material
>
> What are most guys using for flooring for the cabin and bagage
compartment?
> If you go with aluminum are you using stiffeners?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike Wilson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Turner <tailwind222(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Floor material |
I used the luan also......easy to work with light......and I think it helps deaden
sound some compared to metal. gt phx
"Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com>
Mike, Aluminum will require some type of stiffening. I've been using 1/4"
luan plywood from the local lumber yard. It measures a short 1/4" and is
fairly light. I think it is used for underlayment over plywood floors in
house construction. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Tailwind-List: Floor material
>
> What are most guys using for flooring for the cabin and bagage
compartment?
> If you go with aluminum are you using stiffeners?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike Wilson
>
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Schlanser <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines |
Bill,
Check out Rick C. for his choice of the Cont IO360 in the O&OII. Sounds too heavy
for a W-10 though. Eric - in soggy Michigan
-Hi Group,
An alternate engine I might consider is the Continental IO 360. Any comments
pro or con?-
Thanks.
Bill O'Brien in snowy Vermont
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | USAviator1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Jim C's birthday |
Happy Birthday Jim! I appreciate all the information you provide.
Steve -in Michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Schlanser <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jim C's B-day |
Jim,
Hope your B-day is a fine one. You deserve it. Your clear and concise help about
Tailwinds makes you the guru. I appreciate all the patient answers you have
managed to give. My project is way better off for it.
Thanks, Eric- in Michigan
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Boot cowl fasteners |
I have been pouring over the photos of Jim's planes looking for details I have
missed. One of the things I notice is that there are tabs for the rear edge of
the aluninum side-panels (boot cowls???) but no tabs for the top, front, or
bottom. How is this aluminum fastened?
Number 2; do the pushrods for the flaps and ailerons go up alongside(outside)
the baggage shelf and sides, or do they go thru the baggage area?
Thanks in advance.
Bill Newkirk
Fresno,CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Boot cowl fasteners |
| From: | Fred Weaver <Mytyweav(at)flash.net> |
Bill.... Jim fastens the front of the aluminum with the same screws
that secure the cowl. The forward portion of the bottom is similar but
in the center there are some dedicated screws holding the aluminum that
have nothing to do with the cowl. The top of the aluminum is secured
with screws going into the channel thing that supports the side windows.
Am I making any sense? Gotta break out the camera...
The pushrods go up and down very close to the fuselage side. They are
located between the baggage area and the side, Not thru the baggage
thingy...
Clear as mud, eh?
Weav
On Monday, December 30, 2002, at 09:52 PM, Bill newkirk wrote:
>
> I have been pouring over the photos of Jim's planes looking for details
> I have missed. One of the things I notice is that there are tabs for
> the rear edge of the aluninum side-panels (boot cowls???) but no tabs
> for the top, front, or bottom. How is this aluminum fastened?
> Number 2; do the pushrods for the flaps and ailerons go up
> alongside(outside) the baggage shelf and sides, or do they go thru the
> baggage area?
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Bill Newkirk
> Fresno,CA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Jim C's B-day |
| From: | "Bill O'Brien" <billwing(at)together.net> |
on 12/30/02 7:01 PM, Fred Weaver at Mytyweav(at)flash.net wrote:
>
>>
If it weren't for Jim C, the Tailwind (to me) would have remained an
interesting example of a remarkably efficient but unacceptably homely
aircraft. Thanks to Jim, it's now (to me) even more remarkably efficient and
BEAUTIFUL aircraft.
Thanks, Jim, and Happy Birthday. I'd be happy to kiss any of your Tailwinds,
Probably Fred's, too.
Bill O'Brien , from Frozen Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Boot cowl fasteners |
Bill, The top screws go thru the side windows into the panel that covers
the top of the instrment panel. The bottom is fastened by wrapping the side
panels around the lower longerons and screwing it to the bottom panel.
Pushrods go thru the baggage floor as close to the sides without hitting
anything. They are visable from the floor to the upper arms. Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Boot cowl fasteners
>
> I have been pouring over the photos of Jim's planes looking for details I
have missed. One of the things I notice is that there are tabs for the rear
edge of the aluninum side-panels (boot cowls???) but no tabs for the top,
front, or bottom. How is this aluminum fastened?
> Number 2; do the pushrods for the flaps and ailerons go up
alongside(outside) the baggage shelf and sides, or do they go thru the
baggage area?
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Bill Newkirk
> Fresno,CA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NorthernTailwind(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Jim C's B-day |
In a message dated 12/30/2002 7:50:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, 168x(at)merr.com
writes:
>
> Thanks all of you for the Happy Birthdays. Never thought I would last this
> long. Born December 31 1938, Have no idea where the last 40 years went.
> Jim
> C
Happy Birthday Jim and Best Wishes to you and your family in the New Year.
Earl Trimble
C-GYYT
Richmond Hill,
Ontario,
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jim C's B-day |
Jim: Happy birthday from soggy Sacramento/Davis/Woodland also. Hoping the
weather clears some on New Years day so we can fly some!
Dave
W-8+
N202Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Lamb <lamb01(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jim C's B-day |
So, Jim!
Did you get that new digital camera for your birthday?
hehehe!
Richard
NorthernTailwind(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 12/30/2002 7:50:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, 168x(at)merr.com
> writes:
>
> >
> > Thanks all of you for the Happy Birthdays. Never thought I would last this
> > long. Born December 31 1938, Have no idea where the last 40 years went.
> > Jim
> > C
>
> Happy Birthday Jim and Best Wishes to you and your family in the New Year.
>
> Earl Trimble
> C-GYYT
>
> Richmond Hill,
> Ontario,
> Canada
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jim C's B-day |
>
>Jim: Happy birthday from soggy Sacramento/Davis/Woodland also. Hoping the
>weather clears some on New Years day so we can fly some!
>Dave
>W-8+
>N202Q
>
>
--
Jerry Hey
Tailwind & Rotary Engine Support
http://www.j-winddesigns.com
mailto:j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RJ <gatsby8898(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jim C's B-day |
> Happy Birthday Jim, from Colorado. As I've said
before, seeing the Tailwinds you have built is the
reason I started building mine. Many thanks for all
your help. Happy New Year to all.
>
> Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com>
> >
> > Thanks all of you for the Happy Birthdays. Never
> thought I would last this
> > long. Born December 31 1938, Have no idea where
> the last 40 years went.
> > Jim
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike_tailwind(at)att.net |
| Subject: | Re: Floor Material - Thanks |
Thanks for the advice. I'll use the luan since I have some left over from
when I refinished the kitchen (some times honey-doos pay off).
-Mike
> From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com>
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Floor material
>
>
> Mike, Aluminum will require some type of stiffening. I've been using 1/4"
> luan plywood from the local lumber yard. It measures a short 1/4" and is
> fairly light. I think it is used for underlayment over plywood floors in
> house construction. Jim C
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kenneth Graves <kbgraves(at)yahoo.com> |
Last year I saw the W9 in a Hangar on a small grass
strip in Huntersville N.C.Looks Great. Met the Owner
but cannot remember his name. Opened the hangar for me
but had to go so asked me to lockup when I was through
looking. Tailwind people are wonderful trusting
people. Huntersville is north of Charlotte on I77
bring a sectional the airport is a bear to find. Good
Luck Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Bernard" <billbernard(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jim C's B-day |
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, JIM!!!!
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)att.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Jim C's B-day
>
> I would like to take this time to wish Jim a happy birthday and have Donna
give him a great big kiss from all of us Tailwinders who probably wouldn't
have had one without him !
> Love your pals
> Earl & Laura
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jim C's B-day |
>Hi Jim, I want to add my congrats to all the others. This
>outpouring of good wishes by so many of us TW builders and flyers
>is most deserved. Without your pioneereing work and continued
>support, we would all be building RV's. Thanks. Jerry
>
>
>>
>> I would like to take this time to wish Jim a happy birthday and have Donna
>give him a great big kiss from all of us Tailwinders who probably wouldn't
>have had one without him !
>> Love your pals
>> Earl & Laura
>>
>>
>
>
--
Jerry Hey
Tailwind & Rotary Engine Support
http://www.j-winddesigns.com
mailto:j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jim C's B-day |
Thanks Jerry, and all the other Tailwinders. Spent the 31st putting a
transmission in Donna's van, that wasn't fun but things got better later on.
The casino next to the airport and near our house has a large New Years
buffet. On your birthday they give you a free buffet ticket. That' where we
went for New Years. In the dining room at 5:10pm and home at 6:30pm.
Hope to see you guys at Baraboo the weekend before Oshkosh, I warned the
airport manager you are coming. He is all for it. Everybody is welcome. Rick
is in charge of organizing, Fred is the airshow performer and George Turner
is our entertainment. Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Hey" <j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Jim C's B-day
>
> >Hi Jim, I want to add my congrats to all the others. This
> >outpouring of good wishes by so many of us TW builders and flyers
> >is most deserved. Without your pioneereing work and continued
> >support, we would all be building RV's. Thanks. Jerry
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I would like to take this time to wish Jim a happy birthday and have
Donna
> >give him a great big kiss from all of us Tailwinders who probably
wouldn't
> >have had one without him !
> >> Love your pals
> >> Earl & Laura
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Jerry Hey
>
> Tailwind & Rotary Engine Support
>
> http://www.j-winddesigns.com
>
> mailto:j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com> |
Happy birthday Jim. Earl is right about not having a Tailwind without you; MANY
THANKS. I'm sure you don't remember but I first met you at OSH one evening,
I think about 1987 or '88 when you had just finished the white and blue one with
the O-300 continental. I had been intending to build an airplane for many
years but like so many others, could only dream. A few years later I met Earl
Luce, and the rest is history. Best wishes, keep building.
Boud Kuenen
NX888WT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remote Oil Filter |
It's probably a little late to respond to this one; but I hit on a solution
that probably even SW would like. I grind off the spot welded hex-drive hub
on the back of the filter itself. This gives about a 1/4" spare room to get
the filter on/off. Don't grind the welds themselves or the safety wire tabs
and take care not to score the metal of the actual filter can under the hex.
Boud Kuenen
NX888WT.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Hey" <j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Remote Oil Filter
>
> >
> >
> >Dave: I had the same oil filter problem. I built a square recess
> >into my fuel tank and matching recess in the firewall. Another idea
> >is to use an aluminum kitchen bowl in the tank and a stainless steel
> >bowl in the firewall. If you use a remote location be sure that all
> >the fittings and hoses are safe........my buddy had a problem with a
> >fitting and lost all his oil on his long eze.......just before he
> >landed......no damage to the engine. The more stuff, the more
> >potential for a problem.
> >On my present Tailwind, 0320E3D Lyc. again....the builder extended
> >the engine mount enuf......works fine......but moves the cg forward
> >a little.
> >George.....Phoenix ( warm location )
> >Davstamsta(at)aol.com
> >
> >All,
> >I've been working on the engine. I have Jerry Hey's Dynofocal engine
mount.
> >Seems real tight to the fire wall. I have an o-320 E2D that came with a
spin
> >on oil filter. It does not have clearance to the firewall. I also got an
> >airwolf remote, but the hose fittings run into the clearance problem as
well.
> >What should I do:
> >1. Put on an old oil screen? (Does anyone have one?)
> >2. Build a new engine mount?
> >3. Remake the gas tank and firewall so I have a pocket.
> >4. ????
> >
> >Happy Holidays!
> >David Stamsta
> >Michigan
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> Dave, the 0-320 engine mount I build is designed to place the
> machined part of the rear case 9 inches from the fire wall assuming
> that the bushing in the fuselage sticks out from the fire wall 5/16
> inch. It seems to me you could use a spacer-bushing to move the
> engine mount (and gear legs) forward just a bit to gain more space.
> The battery could be moved back to compensate the c.g. if necessary.
> I suspect that there is a some tolerance to work with when installing
> the 0-320 as it is lighter than the 0-360 which is installed same
> distance from the fire wall. The above is guess work on my
> part. Jim or Rick can correct me if I am wrong. I do know that
> you will not have any C.G. issues with the 0-320 at the 9 inch
> location. Regards, Jerry
>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Jerry Hey
>
> Tailwind & Rotary Engine Support
>
> http://www.j-winddesigns.com
>
> mailto:j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re remote Oil Filter from Ross |
Hi David
I sell oil filters for a living and a diesel mechanic by trade. My
suggestion is go the easy way. Most aero engines have a short hourly life
in home builds between this and that needing some kind of repair and will go
the distance without oil filters. When the engines fail mechanically it's
to late for oil filters anyway.
Ross Leach
Narangba
Queensland
AUSTRALIA.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Davstamsta(at)aol.com>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Remote Oil Filter
All,
I've been working on the engine. I have Jerry Hey's Dynofocal engine mount.
Seems real tight to the fire wall. I have an o-320 E2D that came with a spin
on oil filter. It does not have clearance to the firewall. I also got an
airwolf remote, but the hose fittings run into the clearance problem as
well.
What should I do:
1. Put on an old oil screen? (Does anyone have one?)
2. Build a new engine mount?
3. Remake the gas tank and firewall so I have a pocket.
4. ????
Happy Holidays!
David Stamsta
Michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re remote Oil Filter from Ross |
Ross
For some reason I can't reach by e- mail about Zeke's TW it comes back
undeliverable. I have an offer of 18k on the table.
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re remote Oil Filter from Ross
>
> Hi David
>
> I sell oil filters for a living and a diesel mechanic by trade. My
> suggestion is go the easy way. Most aero engines have a short hourly life
> in home builds between this and that needing some kind of repair and will
go
> the distance without oil filters. When the engines fail mechanically it's
> to late for oil filters anyway.
>
> Ross Leach
>
> Narangba
> Queensland
> AUSTRALIA.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Davstamsta(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Tailwind-List: Remote Oil Filter
>
>
> All,
> I've been working on the engine. I have Jerry Hey's Dynofocal engine
mount.
> Seems real tight to the fire wall. I have an o-320 E2D that came with a
spin
> on oil filter. It does not have clearance to the firewall. I also got an
> airwolf remote, but the hose fittings run into the clearance problem as
> well.
> What should I do:
> 1. Put on an old oil screen? (Does anyone have one?)
> 2. Build a new engine mount?
> 3. Remake the gas tank and firewall so I have a pocket.
> 4. ????
>
> Happy Holidays!
> David Stamsta
> Michigan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dallas Benham" <dlbenham(at)smithville.net> |
Hi guys:
Does anyone have any pros or cons about Sam James' wheelpants. I'm ready to install
pants and fairings and am considering his for the next purchase.
Thanks
Dallas Benham
Southern Indiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lovelace, Malcolm" <Malcolm.Lovelace(at)coopertools.com> |
I bought Van's. They fit nice and they give you everything including the
drawings that show you how to put them on. The only draw back is they cost
more, but you get what you pay for.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dallas Benham [SMTP:dlbenham(at)smithville.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 12:50 PM
> To: tailwind-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> Hi guys:
>
> Does anyone have any pros or cons about Sam James' wheelpants. I'm ready
> to install pants and fairings and am considering his for the next
> purchase.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dallas Benham
> Southern Indiana
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RJ <gatsby8898(at)yahoo.com> |
Dallas, I used Sam's wheel pants. I chose them because
they looked like they would produce more lift,
(flatter tlaterallyraly). That's pretty minor. I guess
I just like the looks of them better than Van's,
(RV-6A next door hangar). They are, "pressure
recovery", which looks nice, might add speed. Van's
are too but, Sam's seem a little more so. The
workmanship was good and all fit well. Instructions
and drawings are good.
RJ
--- Dallas Benham wrote:
>
>
> Hi guys:
>
> Does anyone have any pros or cons about Sam James'
> wheelpants. I'm ready to install pants and fairings
> and am considering his for the next purchase.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dallas Benham
> Southern Indiana
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm
>
Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/tailwind-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RJ <gatsby8898(at)yahoo.com> |
I don't know how that got in there - should be flatter
laterally.
--- RJ wrote:
>
>
> Dallas, I used Sam's wheel pants. I chose them
> because
> they looked like they would produce more lift,
> (flatter tlaterallyraly). That's pretty minor. I
> guess
> I just like the looks of them better than Van's,
> (RV-6A next door hangar). They are, "pressure
> recovery", which looks nice, might add speed. Van's
> are too but, Sam's seem a little more so. The
> workmanship was good and all fit well. Instructions
> and drawings are good.
> RJ
>
> --- Dallas Benham wrote:
> Benham"
> >
> >
> > Hi guys:
> >
> > Does anyone have any pros or cons about Sam James'
> > wheelpants. I'm ready to install pants and
> fairings
> > and am considering his for the next purchase.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Dallas Benham
> > Southern Indiana
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > latest messages.
> > List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm
> >
>
Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/tailwind-list
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm
>
Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/tailwind-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Weaver <Mytyweav(at)flash.net> |
Jim C uses Sam's..... They fit real good and create less drag. Be sure
to split them front to back. Gives you a much nicer/tighter fit around
the wheel/tire assembly.
Weav
On Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 09:50 AM, Dallas Benham wrote:
>
>
> Hi guys:
>
> Does anyone have any pros or cons about Sam James' wheelpants. I'm
> ready to install pants and fairings and am considering his for the next
> purchase.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dallas Benham
> Southern Indiana
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Where is everybody? Is my mailsbox broke?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Lamb <lamb01(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What's do-in |
I think they are all hiding out over on the Tailwind Forum
on Yahoo Groups...
I wondered in there last week and picked up a world of goodies.
mlinda(at)wt.net wrote:
>
>
> Where is everybody? Is my mailsbox broke?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What's do-in |
Rick
Jim C is out of town , we have lost are way without our leader !!!!!!!!
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Lamb" <lamb01(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: What's do-in
>
> I think they are all hiding out over on the Tailwind Forum
> on Yahoo Groups...
>
> I wondered in there last week and picked up a world of goodies.
>
>
> mlinda(at)wt.net wrote:
> >
> >
> > Where is everybody? Is my mailsbox broke?
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fergieflyer(at)webtv.net (Ed Noble) |
| Subject: | want to Purchase Tailwind |
Looking for a good w10 or w8,quality is a must.Thanks,Ed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net> |
I'm hiding out in the garage working on the Tailwind. Hope to have the boot
cowl, firewall and baggage stuff ready to install. Talked to Fred Felix
about doing me a prop, and been collecting parts for the engine
installation. Striving forward and hopfully upward come spring. JohnD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What's do-in |
Time for you to take the helm, Earl!
Your camping buddy, Boud
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: What's do-in
>
> Rick
> Jim C is out of town , we have lost are way without our leader !!!!!!!!
> Earl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Lamb" <lamb01(at)flash.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: What's do-in
>
>
> >
> > I think they are all hiding out over on the Tailwind Forum
> > on Yahoo Groups...
> >
> > I wondered in there last week and picked up a world of goodies.
> >
> >
> > mlinda(at)wt.net wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Where is everybody? Is my mailsbox broke?
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Re remote Oil Filter from Ross |
Thanks for your reply. Looks like I will have to build one because of the
extra costs ( I am married remember) of flying over to inspect it and
transport cost to Australia. I could build one here for less money and
probably more suited to my needs. I just wanted to get away from building
again. Must be getting lazy in my old age or maybe I just know the effort
it takes to build. A friend of mine has shown interest in building one with
me so that should keep me inspired. Thanks again for you effort.
Regards Ross Leach.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re remote Oil Filter from Ross
Ross
For some reason I can't reach by e- mail about Zeke's TW it comes back
undeliverable. I have an offer of 18k on the table.
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re remote Oil Filter from Ross
>
> Hi David
>
> I sell oil filters for a living and a diesel mechanic by trade. My
> suggestion is go the easy way. Most aero engines have a short hourly life
> in home builds between this and that needing some kind of repair and will
go
> the distance without oil filters. When the engines fail mechanically it's
> to late for oil filters anyway.
>
> Ross Leach
>
> Narangba
> Queensland
> AUSTRALIA.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Davstamsta(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Tailwind-List: Remote Oil Filter
>
>
> All,
> I've been working on the engine. I have Jerry Hey's Dynofocal engine
mount.
> Seems real tight to the fire wall. I have an o-320 E2D that came with a
spin
> on oil filter. It does not have clearance to the firewall. I also got an
> airwolf remote, but the hose fittings run into the clearance problem as
> well.
> What should I do:
> 1. Put on an old oil screen? (Does anyone have one?)
> 2. Build a new engine mount?
> 3. Remake the gas tank and firewall so I have a pocket.
> 4. ????
>
> Happy Holidays!
> David Stamsta
> Michigan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net> |
Had the airframe over to the sign shop the past couple of days sizing the
firewall, boot cowl, door panels and the framing for the baggage
compartment. Also did the aluminum for the top of the doors Clement style.
Received the material from Fred Felix today to get the prop carving in
motion. It is beginning to feel like there is some light at the end of the
tunnel. JohnD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com> |
Keep going John, I'll leave the light on. 03 is here. Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: sheet metal
>
> Had the airframe over to the sign shop the past couple of days sizing the
> firewall, boot cowl, door panels and the framing for the baggage
> compartment. Also did the aluminum for the top of the doors Clement
style.
> Received the material from Fred Felix today to get the prop carving in
> motion. It is beginning to feel like there is some light at the end of
the
> tunnel. JohnD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au> |
| Subject: | Building of metal wings |
G'day All
I am now putting together all my info I have collected on building a W10 TW and
would like any of your thoughts on building metal wings (and any thing else you
may think I should consider). I am comfortable working with alloy and would
like to carry more fuel than the under-dash tank will hold (remember it is a
large country with a lot of nothing in-between some of our waypoints and you
have to carry enough fuel to get home or to a fuel supply. Avgas is had to get
out in the bush here). Could anybody advise me on the pros and cons of the two
wing choices. I am also considering adding 1 foot more of wing per side.
I intend using a Rotax 914 (115hp)or a 3300 (120hp) Jabiru 6 cyl so I can keep
the weight down so as it can be registered with the AUF (Australian Ultralight
Federation). I will be quite happy with 120 knot + cruise. I have flown ultralights
for 15 years and do not want to get involved with GA's and our Governments
CASA with 100 hourly's and the associated expense.
I have a CFM Streak Shadow (860 hours on the clock) I built from a kit which now
has a 2200 Jabiru that I have flown all around the eastern side of Australia
for the last 10 years. Next month in February I will be flying down to Avalon
Airport near Melbourne Victoria to the Avalon Airshow from my home base at Caboolture
just north of Brisbane Queensland. I need a good cross country aircraft
to go further a-field and I feel a TW looks like the answer. A friend of
mine is also wishing to build one with me if I go ahead. There are only a hand
full of TW here in Australia and most of them are W8s'. I was told there is
three W10 under construction in NSW the state below Queensland were I live.
I am lucky enough to have a W8 hangered 2 doors away form me at Caboolture (www.cabaeroclub.org.au)
which I have flown three times and was quite impressed with
its performance with the 0-200 (100hp) in it. Please feel free to check our
web site out. Awaiting you replies.
Ross Leach (Caboolture, Queensland, Australia)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
Ross,
There are people who have built metal wings and even tapered wings for
Tailwinds, but I have never heard any claims that they provided any
advantage over the wooden ones; and complicating the whole project with wing
tanks/plumbing is a double edged sword, to say the least. Years ago SW said
of the Tailwind; "performed a little better than expected". This is
primarily due to the fact that the wing (not laminar flow) is very smooth.
I think smooth wings are easier to obtain with wood than sheet metal,
especially if the sheet metal is thin. Many W-10's have 30+ gallon tanks.
This coupled with the J-3300 should give you 5 hour range at 150-155 knots
for a range of almost 900 statute miles. Time to check the weather and
water the horse by then anyway.
Regards,
Boud Kuenen NX888WT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>
> G'day All
>
> I am now putting together all my info I have collected on building a W10
TW and would like any of your thoughts on building metal wings (and any
thing else you may think I should consider). I am comfortable working with
alloy and would like to carry more fuel than the under-dash tank will hold
(remember it is a large country with a lot of nothing in-between some of our
waypoints and you have to carry enough fuel to get home or to a fuel supply.
Avgas is had to get out in the bush here). Could anybody advise me on the
pros and cons of the two wing choices. I am also considering adding 1 foot
more of wing per side.
>
> I intend using a Rotax 914 (115hp)or a 3300 (120hp) Jabiru 6 cyl so I can
keep the weight down so as it can be registered with the AUF (Australian
Ultralight Federation). I will be quite happy with 120 knot + cruise. I
have flown ultralights for 15 years and do not want to get involved with
GA's and our Governments CASA with 100 hourly's and the associated expense.
>
> I have a CFM Streak Shadow (860 hours on the clock) I built from a kit
which now has a 2200 Jabiru that I have flown all around the eastern side of
Australia for the last 10 years. Next month in February I will be flying
down to Avalon Airport near Melbourne Victoria to the Avalon Airshow from my
home base at Caboolture just north of Brisbane Queensland. I need a good
cross country aircraft to go further a-field and I feel a TW looks like the
answer. A friend of mine is also wishing to build one with me if I go
ahead. There are only a hand full of TW here in Australia and most of them
are W8s'. I was told there is three W10 under construction in NSW the state
below Queensland were I live. I am lucky enough to have a W8 hangered 2
doors away form me at Caboolture (www.cabaeroclub.org.au) which I have flown
three times and was quite impressed with its performance with the 0-200
(100hp) in it. Please feel free to check our web site out. Awaiting you
replies.
>
> Ross Leach (Caboolture, Queensland, Australia)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD <John.Livingston(at)wpafb.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Building of metal wings |
I agree with most of Boud's comments, but on the flip side, Calbie Wood has plans
for a metal wing with wing tanks. Pretty straight forward, if metal is your
media. I am putting all of my fuel in the wing for safety purposes and to free
up space behind the dash. In order to keep the fuel system simple I'd either
put it all in the wings or all behind the dash. If you are going to use a small
engine there is no need for anymore span than the W10 has.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Boud Kuenen [mailto:bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com]
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
Ross,
There are people who have built metal wings and even tapered wings for
Tailwinds, but I have never heard any claims that they provided any
advantage over the wooden ones; and complicating the whole project with wing
tanks/plumbing is a double edged sword, to say the least. Years ago SW said
of the Tailwind; "performed a little better than expected". This is
primarily due to the fact that the wing (not laminar flow) is very smooth.
I think smooth wings are easier to obtain with wood than sheet metal,
especially if the sheet metal is thin. Many W-10's have 30+ gallon tanks.
This coupled with the J-3300 should give you 5 hour range at 150-155 knots
for a range of almost 900 statute miles. Time to check the weather and
water the horse by then anyway.
Regards,
Boud Kuenen NX888WT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>
> G'day All
>
> I am now putting together all my info I have collected on building a W10
TW and would like any of your thoughts on building metal wings (and any
thing else you may think I should consider). I am comfortable working with
alloy and would like to carry more fuel than the under-dash tank will hold
(remember it is a large country with a lot of nothing in-between some of our
waypoints and you have to carry enough fuel to get home or to a fuel supply.
Avgas is had to get out in the bush here). Could anybody advise me on the
pros and cons of the two wing choices. I am also considering adding 1 foot
more of wing per side.
>
> I intend using a Rotax 914 (115hp)or a 3300 (120hp) Jabiru 6 cyl so I can
keep the weight down so as it can be registered with the AUF (Australian
Ultralight Federation). I will be quite happy with 120 knot + cruise. I
have flown ultralights for 15 years and do not want to get involved with
GA's and our Governments CASA with 100 hourly's and the associated expense.
>
> I have a CFM Streak Shadow (860 hours on the clock) I built from a kit
which now has a 2200 Jabiru that I have flown all around the eastern side of
Australia for the last 10 years. Next month in February I will be flying
down to Avalon Airport near Melbourne Victoria to the Avalon Airshow from my
home base at Caboolture just north of Brisbane Queensland. I need a good
cross country aircraft to go further a-field and I feel a TW looks like the
answer. A friend of mine is also wishing to build one with me if I go
ahead. There are only a hand full of TW here in Australia and most of them
are W8s'. I was told there is three W10 under construction in NSW the state
below Queensland were I live. I am lucky enough to have a W8 hangered 2
doors away form me at Caboolture (www.cabaeroclub.org.au) which I have flown
three times and was quite impressed with its performance with the 0-200
(100hp) in it. Please feel free to check our web site out. Awaiting you
replies.
>
> Ross Leach (Caboolture, Queensland, Australia)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas P. Wilson" <twilson(at)clinic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
Hi Ross (and Shirley too),
I am a guy who has actually undertaken construction of a pair of metal
tailwind wings. I have assembled materials, and made some parts, but I have
put the project up for sale (long story - I have another project which I
believed I had sold and the tailwind fuselage came up for sale and the
workmanship was simply too good to pass on). I now have two project with
room for about one-half a single project. That said, I can observe that I
don't think construction of the wings would be a terribly complex project. I
do believe that the metal wings will be heavier and likely measurably slower
as compared with an identical aircraft with wooden wings. Also, I have built
ribs for one wing panel and found it extremely difficult to acceptably
"joggle" the main ribs where they join the main spar. The joggling is
necessary for a wet wing. I determined that I would build my wings dry and
this is a principal reason. The cost of 2024 T-3 extrusion will shock you,
and it is becoming far less than readily available. For cost reasons, I
found it necessary to purchase 4 12' lengths to get the 4 9.5 footers
needed. My supplier, one of the largest aircraft specialty materials
providers in the States indicated that he had trouble even ordering the
stuff. I spoke with the designer, Callby Wood, and he was quite insistent
that I use the 2024 extrusion on the main spar and spar web. There is a
quite significant strength disadvantage to using 6061 T-6, which is far more
readily available. I was very fortunate to have access to the thick (can't
remember now but believe it is 3/16" thick 2024 doublers at the root end of
the main spar. Good luck finding those pieces at less than a lot! The hinges
look like they will be a challenge to build and align so that the flaps and
ailerons work freely. I find no fault with the design and my technique may
be lacking on the joggling problem, but I have built all the ribs for my
Zodiac project from scratch with no difficulties encountered, and I didn't
give up on joggling until after I had exhausted my resources and skill.
I have long been fascinated by these metal wings and have recently
spoken with another man (Bill See in Centersburg, Ohio) who actually built
and flew a pair of the metal wings. he reported no difficulty, so you may
wnat to track him down. People search on Yahoo.com will turn him up. Anyway,
best of luck on the endeavor. It may alienate a lot of Tailwind people, but
I hate wooden wings, so I naturally looked at this option. Tom Wilson
Original Message -----
From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>
> G'day All
>
> I am now putting together all my info I have collected on building a W10
TW and would like any of your thoughts on building metal wings (and any
thing else you may think I should consider). I am comfortable working with
alloy and would like to carry more fuel than the under-dash tank will hold
(remember it is a large country with a lot of nothing in-between some of our
waypoints and you have to carry enough fuel to get home or to a fuel supply.
Avgas is had to get out in the bush here). Could anybody advise me on the
pros and cons of the two wing choices. I am also considering adding 1 foot
more of wing per side.
>
> I intend using a Rotax 914 (115hp)or a 3300 (120hp) Jabiru 6 cyl so I can
keep the weight down so as it can be registered with the AUF (Australian
Ultralight Federation). I will be quite happy with 120 knot + cruise. I
have flown ultralights for 15 years and do not want to get involved with
GA's and our Governments CASA with 100 hourly's and the associated expense.
>
> I have a CFM Streak Shadow (860 hours on the clock) I built from a kit
which now has a 2200 Jabiru that I have flown all around the eastern side of
Australia for the last 10 years. Next month in February I will be flying
down to Avalon Airport near Melbourne Victoria to the Avalon Airshow from my
home base at Caboolture just north of Brisbane Queensland. I need a good
cross country aircraft to go further a-field and I feel a TW looks like the
answer. A friend of mine is also wishing to build one with me if I go
ahead. There are only a hand full of TW here in Australia and most of them
are W8s'. I was told there is three W10 under construction in NSW the state
below Queensland were I live. I am lucky enough to have a W8 hangered 2
doors away form me at Caboolture (www.cabaeroclub.org.au) which I have flown
three times and was quite impressed with its performance with the 0-200
(100hp) in it. Please feel free to check our web site out. Awaiting you
replies.
>
> Ross Leach (Caboolture, Queensland, Australia)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
Thanks John for your comments. To all others keep them coming. I'm to old
for anyone to hurt my feelings with there ideas or comments.
Regards Ross Leach.. Caboolture Qld Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD" <John.Livingston(at)wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
I agree with most of Boud's comments, but on the flip side, Calbie Wood has
plans for a metal wing with wing tanks. Pretty straight forward, if metal is
your media. I am putting all of my fuel in the wing for safety purposes and
to free up space behind the dash. In order to keep the fuel system simple
I'd either put it all in the wings or all behind the dash. If you are going
to use a small engine there is no need for anymore span than the W10 has.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Boud Kuenen [mailto:bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com]
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
Ross,
There are people who have built metal wings and even tapered wings for
Tailwinds, but I have never heard any claims that they provided any
advantage over the wooden ones; and complicating the whole project with wing
tanks/plumbing is a double edged sword, to say the least. Years ago SW said
of the Tailwind; "performed a little better than expected". This is
primarily due to the fact that the wing (not laminar flow) is very smooth.
I think smooth wings are easier to obtain with wood than sheet metal,
especially if the sheet metal is thin. Many W-10's have 30+ gallon tanks.
This coupled with the J-3300 should give you 5 hour range at 150-155 knots
for a range of almost 900 statute miles. Time to check the weather and
water the horse by then anyway.
Regards,
Boud Kuenen NX888WT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>
> G'day All
>
> I am now putting together all my info I have collected on building a W10
TW and would like any of your thoughts on building metal wings (and any
thing else you may think I should consider). I am comfortable working with
alloy and would like to carry more fuel than the under-dash tank will hold
(remember it is a large country with a lot of nothing in-between some of our
waypoints and you have to carry enough fuel to get home or to a fuel supply.
Avgas is had to get out in the bush here). Could anybody advise me on the
pros and cons of the two wing choices. I am also considering adding 1 foot
more of wing per side.
>
> I intend using a Rotax 914 (115hp)or a 3300 (120hp) Jabiru 6 cyl so I can
keep the weight down so as it can be registered with the AUF (Australian
Ultralight Federation). I will be quite happy with 120 knot + cruise. I
have flown ultralights for 15 years and do not want to get involved with
GA's and our Governments CASA with 100 hourly's and the associated expense.
>
> I have a CFM Streak Shadow (860 hours on the clock) I built from a kit
which now has a 2200 Jabiru that I have flown all around the eastern side of
Australia for the last 10 years. Next month in February I will be flying
down to Avalon Airport near Melbourne Victoria to the Avalon Airshow from my
home base at Caboolture just north of Brisbane Queensland. I need a good
cross country aircraft to go further a-field and I feel a TW looks like the
answer. A friend of mine is also wishing to build one with me if I go
ahead. There are only a hand full of TW here in Australia and most of them
are W8s'. I was told there is three W10 under construction in NSW the state
below Queensland were I live. I am lucky enough to have a W8 hangered 2
doors away form me at Caboolture (www.cabaeroclub.org.au) which I have flown
three times and was quite impressed with its performance with the 0-200
(100hp) in it. Please feel free to check our web site out. Awaiting you
replies.
>
> Ross Leach (Caboolture, Queensland, Australia)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
Thanks Boud.
I certainly do not disagree with what you say. This what I want a bit of
info to make the right discission. Point taken "Keep it simple" my
favourite motto also.
Regards Ross Leach.. Caboolture Qld Australia.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
Ross,
There are people who have built metal wings and even tapered wings for
Tailwinds, but I have never heard any claims that they provided any
advantage over the wooden ones; and complicating the whole project with wing
tanks/plumbing is a double edged sword, to say the least. Years ago SW said
of the Tailwind; "performed a little better than expected". This is
primarily due to the fact that the wing (not laminar flow) is very smooth.
I think smooth wings are easier to obtain with wood than sheet metal,
especially if the sheet metal is thin. Many W-10's have 30+ gallon tanks.
This coupled with the J-3300 should give you 5 hour range at 150-155 knots
for a range of almost 900 statute miles. Time to check the weather and
water the horse by then anyway.
Regards,
Boud Kuenen NX888WT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>
> G'day All
>
> I am now putting together all my info I have collected on building a W10
TW and would like any of your thoughts on building metal wings (and any
thing else you may think I should consider). I am comfortable working with
alloy and would like to carry more fuel than the under-dash tank will hold
(remember it is a large country with a lot of nothing in-between some of our
waypoints and you have to carry enough fuel to get home or to a fuel supply.
Avgas is had to get out in the bush here). Could anybody advise me on the
pros and cons of the two wing choices. I am also considering adding 1 foot
more of wing per side.
>
> I intend using a Rotax 914 (115hp)or a 3300 (120hp) Jabiru 6 cyl so I can
keep the weight down so as it can be registered with the AUF (Australian
Ultralight Federation). I will be quite happy with 120 knot + cruise. I
have flown ultralights for 15 years and do not want to get involved with
GA's and our Governments CASA with 100 hourly's and the associated expense.
>
> I have a CFM Streak Shadow (860 hours on the clock) I built from a kit
which now has a 2200 Jabiru that I have flown all around the eastern side of
Australia for the last 10 years. Next month in February I will be flying
down to Avalon Airport near Melbourne Victoria to the Avalon Airshow from my
home base at Caboolture just north of Brisbane Queensland. I need a good
cross country aircraft to go further a-field and I feel a TW looks like the
answer. A friend of mine is also wishing to build one with me if I go
ahead. There are only a hand full of TW here in Australia and most of them
are W8s'. I was told there is three W10 under construction in NSW the state
below Queensland were I live. I am lucky enough to have a W8 hangered 2
doors away form me at Caboolture (www.cabaeroclub.org.au) which I have flown
three times and was quite impressed with its performance with the 0-200
(100hp) in it. Please feel free to check our web site out. Awaiting you
replies.
>
> Ross Leach (Caboolture, Queensland, Australia)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
Thanks Tom for taking the time to punch the keys. If you are like me (one
finger) I can appreciate the effort.
I live in a very humid climate and when building my Shadow wing the
pre-made leading edge D section buckled like mad. I tried to fill all the
hollows with Q-cells but gave up after three days. Covered it with fabric
and stood back 10 feet further and said "that will have to do". Maybe
fibreglass could be the answer. I have seen how the new Jabiru wing was
made (for the US market) on their new J200.
Regards Ross Leach Caboolture Qld. Australia.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas P. Wilson" <twilson(at)clinic.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
Hi Ross (and Shirley too),
I am a guy who has actually undertaken construction of a pair of metal
tailwind wings. I have assembled materials, and made some parts, but I have
put the project up for sale (long story - I have another project which I
believed I had sold and the tailwind fuselage came up for sale and the
workmanship was simply too good to pass on). I now have two project with
room for about one-half a single project. That said, I can observe that I
don't think construction of the wings would be a terribly complex project. I
do believe that the metal wings will be heavier and likely measurably slower
as compared with an identical aircraft with wooden wings. Also, I have built
ribs for one wing panel and found it extremely difficult to acceptably
"joggle" the main ribs where they join the main spar. The joggling is
necessary for a wet wing. I determined that I would build my wings dry and
this is a principal reason. The cost of 2024 T-3 extrusion will shock you,
and it is becoming far less than readily available. For cost reasons, I
found it necessary to purchase 4 12' lengths to get the 4 9.5 footers
needed. My supplier, one of the largest aircraft specialty materials
providers in the States indicated that he had trouble even ordering the
stuff. I spoke with the designer, Callby Wood, and he was quite insistent
that I use the 2024 extrusion on the main spar and spar web. There is a
quite significant strength disadvantage to using 6061 T-6, which is far more
readily available. I was very fortunate to have access to the thick (can't
remember now but believe it is 3/16" thick 2024 doublers at the root end of
the main spar. Good luck finding those pieces at less than a lot! The hinges
look like they will be a challenge to build and align so that the flaps and
ailerons work freely. I find no fault with the design and my technique may
be lacking on the joggling problem, but I have built all the ribs for my
Zodiac project from scratch with no difficulties encountered, and I didn't
give up on joggling until after I had exhausted my resources and skill.
I have long been fascinated by these metal wings and have recently
spoken with another man (Bill See in Centersburg, Ohio) who actually built
and flew a pair of the metal wings. he reported no difficulty, so you may
wnat to track him down. People search on Yahoo.com will turn him up. Anyway,
best of luck on the endeavor. It may alienate a lot of Tailwind people, but
I hate wooden wings, so I naturally looked at this option. Tom Wilson
Original Message -----
From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>
> G'day All
>
> I am now putting together all my info I have collected on building a W10
TW and would like any of your thoughts on building metal wings (and any
thing else you may think I should consider). I am comfortable working with
alloy and would like to carry more fuel than the under-dash tank will hold
(remember it is a large country with a lot of nothing in-between some of our
waypoints and you have to carry enough fuel to get home or to a fuel supply.
Avgas is had to get out in the bush here). Could anybody advise me on the
pros and cons of the two wing choices. I am also considering adding 1 foot
more of wing per side.
>
> I intend using a Rotax 914 (115hp)or a 3300 (120hp) Jabiru 6 cyl so I can
keep the weight down so as it can be registered with the AUF (Australian
Ultralight Federation). I will be quite happy with 120 knot + cruise. I
have flown ultralights for 15 years and do not want to get involved with
GA's and our Governments CASA with 100 hourly's and the associated expense.
>
> I have a CFM Streak Shadow (860 hours on the clock) I built from a kit
which now has a 2200 Jabiru that I have flown all around the eastern side of
Australia for the last 10 years. Next month in February I will be flying
down to Avalon Airport near Melbourne Victoria to the Avalon Airshow from my
home base at Caboolture just north of Brisbane Queensland. I need a good
cross country aircraft to go further a-field and I feel a TW looks like the
answer. A friend of mine is also wishing to build one with me if I go
ahead. There are only a hand full of TW here in Australia and most of them
are W8s'. I was told there is three W10 under construction in NSW the state
below Queensland were I live. I am lucky enough to have a W8 hangered 2
doors away form me at Caboolture (www.cabaeroclub.org.au) which I have flown
three times and was quite impressed with its performance with the 0-200
(100hp) in it. Please feel free to check our web site out. Awaiting you
replies.
>
> Ross Leach (Caboolture, Queensland, Australia)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NorthernTailwind(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
Ross -
If you would like to read my yarn about the building of my metal wing
Tailwind you can find it on my club web site. Go to... www.raa-tr.ca
Any questions, drop me a line.
Earl Trimble
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
John
As far as safety , the fuel tank where it is as per plans is by far the
safest place it could be. It is well protected . If you hit hard enough to
rupture the tank you are already in deep #$%
. Remember the tailwind is a
great flying machine , don't screw around with a proven design. If you feel
the need to get different do it with the paint job .
Earl Luce
----- Original Message -----
From: "Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD" <John.Livingston(at)wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>
> I agree with most of Boud's comments, but on the flip side, Calbie Wood
has plans for a metal wing with wing tanks. Pretty straight forward, if
metal is your media. I am putting all of my fuel in the wing for safety
purposes and to free up space behind the dash. In order to keep the fuel
system simple I'd either put it all in the wings or all behind the dash. If
you are going to use a small engine there is no need for anymore span than
the W10 has.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Boud Kuenen [mailto:bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com]
> To: tailwind-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>
>
>
> Ross,
>
> There are people who have built metal wings and even tapered wings for
> Tailwinds, but I have never heard any claims that they provided any
> advantage over the wooden ones; and complicating the whole project with
wing
> tanks/plumbing is a double edged sword, to say the least. Years ago SW
said
> of the Tailwind; "performed a little better than expected". This is
> primarily due to the fact that the wing (not laminar flow) is very smooth.
> I think smooth wings are easier to obtain with wood than sheet metal,
> especially if the sheet metal is thin. Many W-10's have 30+ gallon tanks.
> This coupled with the J-3300 should give you 5 hour range at 150-155 knots
> for a range of almost 900 statute miles. Time to check the weather and
> water the horse by then anyway.
>
> Regards,
> Boud Kuenen NX888WT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au>
> To: "Tailwind-List"
> Subject: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>
>
>
> >
> > G'day All
> >
> > I am now putting together all my info I have collected on building a W10
> TW and would like any of your thoughts on building metal wings (and any
> thing else you may think I should consider). I am comfortable working
with
> alloy and would like to carry more fuel than the under-dash tank will hold
> (remember it is a large country with a lot of nothing in-between some of
our
> waypoints and you have to carry enough fuel to get home or to a fuel
supply.
> Avgas is had to get out in the bush here). Could anybody advise me on the
> pros and cons of the two wing choices. I am also considering adding 1
foot
> more of wing per side.
> >
> > I intend using a Rotax 914 (115hp)or a 3300 (120hp) Jabiru 6 cyl so I
can
> keep the weight down so as it can be registered with the AUF (Australian
> Ultralight Federation). I will be quite happy with 120 knot + cruise. I
> have flown ultralights for 15 years and do not want to get involved with
> GA's and our Governments CASA with 100 hourly's and the associated
expense.
> >
> > I have a CFM Streak Shadow (860 hours on the clock) I built from a kit
> which now has a 2200 Jabiru that I have flown all around the eastern side
of
> Australia for the last 10 years. Next month in February I will be flying
> down to Avalon Airport near Melbourne Victoria to the Avalon Airshow from
my
> home base at Caboolture just north of Brisbane Queensland. I need a good
> cross country aircraft to go further a-field and I feel a TW looks like
the
> answer. A friend of mine is also wishing to build one with me if I go
> ahead. There are only a hand full of TW here in Australia and most of
them
> are W8s'. I was told there is three W10 under construction in NSW the
state
> below Queensland were I live. I am lucky enough to have a W8 hangered 2
> doors away form me at Caboolture (www.cabaeroclub.org.au) which I have
flown
> three times and was quite impressed with its performance with the 0-200
> (100hp) in it. Please feel free to check our web site out. Awaiting you
> replies.
> >
> > Ross Leach (Caboolture, Queensland, Australia)
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwind stall speed. |
John one more question. What would be the stall speed if a 3300 Jabiru was
to be used. Approx give or take a few knots and I certainly would no hold
you to it.
Regards Ross. Caboolture Qld Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD" <John.Livingston(at)wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
I agree with most of Boud's comments, but on the flip side, Calbie Wood has
plans for a metal wing with wing tanks. Pretty straight forward, if metal is
your media. I am putting all of my fuel in the wing for safety purposes and
to free up space behind the dash. In order to keep the fuel system simple
I'd either put it all in the wings or all behind the dash. If you are going
to use a small engine there is no need for anymore span than the W10 has.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
Thank you Earl. I have now save it to a file and will read it.
Regards Ross
----- Original Message -----
From: <NorthernTailwind(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
Ross -
If you would like to read my yarn about the building of my metal wing
Tailwind you can find it on my club web site. Go to... www.raa-tr.ca
Any questions, drop me a line.
Earl Trimble
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
>Well said Earl.
In the accident of Roy Adams The fire was caused by the
carburator breaking off of the crankcase of the O-200 on
impact and draining the fuel from the tank into the fire.
So if the tanks are in the wings, same same. only they are
exposed to more damage.
>
> John
> As far as safety , the fuel tank where it is as per
> plans is by far the safest place it could be. It is well
> protected . If you hit hard enough to rupture the tank you
> are already in deep #$% .. Remember the tailwind is a
> great flying machine , don't screw around with a proven
> design. If you feel the need to get different do it with
> the paint job . Earl Luce
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD"
> To:
> Subject: RE: Tailwind-List:
> Building of metal wings
>
> Civ ASC/ENFD
> >
> > I agree with most of Boud's comments, but on the flip
> side, Calbie Wood has plans for a metal wing with wing
> tanks. Pretty straight forward, if metal is your media. I
> am putting all of my fuel in the wing for safety purposes
> and to free up space behind the dash. In order to keep the
> fuel system simple I'd either put it all in the wings or
> all behind the dash. If you are going to use a small
> engine there is no need for anymore span than the W10 has.
> >
> > John
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Boud Kuenen [mailto:bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com]
> > To: tailwind-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
> >
> >
>
> >
> > Ross,
> >
> > There are people who have built metal wings and even
> > tapered wings for Tailwinds, but I have never heard any
> > claims that they provided any advantage over the wooden
> ones; and complicating the whole project with wing
> > tanks/plumbing is a double edged sword, to say the
> least. Years ago SW said
> > of the Tailwind; "performed a little better than
> > expected". This is primarily due to the fact that the
> > wing (not laminar flow) is very smooth. I think smooth
> > wings are easier to obtain with wood than sheet metal,
> especially if the sheet metal is thin. Many W-10's have
> > 30+ gallon tanks. This coupled with the J-3300 should
> > give you 5 hour range at 150-155 knots for a range of
> > almost 900 statute miles. Time to check the weather and
> water the horse by then anyway. >
> > Regards,
> > Boud Kuenen NX888WT
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au>
> > To: "Tailwind-List"
> > Subject: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
> >
> >
> > Leach"
> > >
> > > G'day All
> > >
> > > I am now putting together all my info I have collected
> > on building a W10 TW and would like any of your thoughts
> > on building metal wings (and any thing else you may
> think I should consider). I am comfortable working with
> > alloy and would like to carry more fuel than the
> > under-dash tank will hold (remember it is a large
> country with a lot of nothing in-between some of our
> > waypoints and you have to carry enough fuel to get home
> or to a fuel supply.
> > Avgas is had to get out in the bush here). Could
> > anybody advise me on the pros and cons of the two wing
> choices. I am also considering adding 1 foot
> > more of wing per side.
> > >
> > > I intend using a Rotax 914 (115hp)or a 3300 (120hp)
> Jabiru 6 cyl so I can
> > keep the weight down so as it can be registered with the
> > AUF (Australian Ultralight Federation). I will be quite
> > happy with 120 knot + cruise. I have flown ultralights
> > for 15 years and do not want to get involved with GA's
> and our Governments CASA with 100 hourly's and the
> associated expense.
> > >
> > > I have a CFM Streak Shadow (860 hours on the clock) I
> > built from a kit which now has a 2200 Jabiru that I have
> flown all around the eastern side of
> > Australia for the last 10 years. Next month in February
> > I will be flying down to Avalon Airport near Melbourne
> Victoria to the Avalon Airshow from my
> > home base at Caboolture just north of Brisbane
> > Queensland. I need a good cross country aircraft to go
> further a-field and I feel a TW looks like the
> > answer. A friend of mine is also wishing to build one
> > with me if I go ahead. There are only a hand full of TW
> here in Australia and most of them
> > are W8s'. I was told there is three W10 under
> construction in NSW the state
> > below Queensland were I live. I am lucky enough to have
> > a W8 hangered 2 doors away form me at Caboolture
> (www.cabaeroclub.org.au) which I have flown
> > three times and was quite impressed with its performance
> > with the 0-200 (100hp) in it. Please feel free to check
> > our web site out. Awaiting you replies.
> > >
> > > Ross Leach (Caboolture, Queensland, Australia)
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> the Matronics Forums.
> other List members.
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/tailwind-list _-> Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
_-> Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
_-> List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/tailwind-list _-> Other Lists:
http://www.matronics.com/emaillists _-> Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==============
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
>Hi Earl and John, I have trouble finding anything wrong with
>putting fuel in the wings, or in putting it in the wings and the
>fuselage or just the fuselage. Since all of these tank locations
>have been proven in other aircraft and in the Tailwind and since the
>plumbing is well known there is not much "experimentation" going on.
>If I were going to build a Callbie Wood wing, I would certainly
>include the fuel tanks. As far as safety is concerned, they are all
>safe until you run into something hard. Jerry
>John
> As far as safety , the fuel tank where it is as per plans is by far the
>safest place it could be. It is well protected . If you hit hard enough to
>rupture the tank you are already in deep #$%
>. Remember the tailwind is a
>great flying machine , don't screw around with a proven design. If you feel
>the need to get different do it with the paint job .
>Earl Luce
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD" <John.Livingston(at)wpafb.af.mil>
>To:
>Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>
>
>
>>
>> I agree with most of Boud's comments, but on the flip side, Calbie Wood
>has plans for a metal wing with wing tanks. Pretty straight forward, if
>metal is your media. I am putting all of my fuel in the wing for safety
>purposes and to free up space behind the dash. In order to keep the fuel
>system simple I'd either put it all in the wings or all behind the dash. If
>you are going to use a small engine there is no need for anymore span than
>the W10 has.
>>
>> John
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Boud Kuenen [mailto:bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com]
>> To: tailwind-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>>
>>
>
>>
>> Ross,
>>
>> There are people who have built metal wings and even tapered wings for
>> Tailwinds, but I have never heard any claims that they provided any
>> advantage over the wooden ones; and complicating the whole project with
>wing
>> tanks/plumbing is a double edged sword, to say the least. Years ago SW
>said
>> of the Tailwind; "performed a little better than expected". This is
>> primarily due to the fact that the wing (not laminar flow) is very smooth.
>> I think smooth wings are easier to obtain with wood than sheet metal,
>> especially if the sheet metal is thin. Many W-10's have 30+ gallon tanks.
>> This coupled with the J-3300 should give you 5 hour range at 150-155 knots
>> for a range of almost 900 statute miles. Time to check the weather and
>> water the horse by then anyway.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Boud Kuenen NX888WT
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au>
>> To: "Tailwind-List"
>> Subject: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > G'day All
>> >
>> > I am now putting together all my info I have collected on building a W10
>> TW and would like any of your thoughts on building metal wings (and any
> > thing else you may think I should consider). I am comfortable working
>with
> > alloy and would like to carry more fuel than the under-dash tank will hold
> > (remember it is a large country with a lot of nothing in-between some of
>our
>> waypoints and you have to carry enough fuel to get home or to a fuel
>supply.
>> Avgas is had to get out in the bush here). Could anybody advise me on the
>> pros and cons of the two wing choices. I am also considering adding 1
>foot
>> more of wing per side.
>> >
>> > I intend using a Rotax 914 (115hp)or a 3300 (120hp) Jabiru 6 cyl so I
>can
>> keep the weight down so as it can be registered with the AUF (Australian
>> Ultralight Federation). I will be quite happy with 120 knot + cruise. I
> > have flown ultralights for 15 years and do not want to get involved with
>> GA's and our Governments CASA with 100 hourly's and the associated
>expense.
>> >
>> > I have a CFM Streak Shadow (860 hours on the clock) I built from a kit
>> which now has a 2200 Jabiru that I have flown all around the eastern side
>of
>> Australia for the last 10 years. Next month in February I will be flying
>> down to Avalon Airport near Melbourne Victoria to the Avalon Airshow from
>my
>> home base at Caboolture just north of Brisbane Queensland. I need a good
>> cross country aircraft to go further a-field and I feel a TW looks like
>the
>> answer. A friend of mine is also wishing to build one with me if I go
>> ahead. There are only a hand full of TW here in Australia and most of
>them
>> are W8s'. I was told there is three W10 under construction in NSW the
>state
>> below Queensland were I live. I am lucky enough to have a W8 hangered 2
>> doors away form me at Caboolture (www.cabaeroclub.org.au) which I have
>flown
>> three times and was quite impressed with its performance with the 0-200
>> (100hp) in it. Please feel free to check our web site out. Awaiting you
>> replies.
>> >
>> > Ross Leach (Caboolture, Queensland, Australia)
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
--
Jerry Hey
Tailwind & Rotary Engine Support
http://www.j-winddesigns.com
mailto:j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD <John.Livingston(at)wpafb.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwind stall speed. |
Well, my numbers say a little over 60mph at 1500lbs wt, but a more important number
is the speed at minimum sink rate which will be at about 80 mph.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross & Shirley Leach [mailto:bacs(at)powerup.com.au]
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind stall speed.
John one more question. What would be the stall speed if a 3300 Jabiru was
to be used. Approx give or take a few knots and I certainly would no hold
you to it.
Regards Ross. Caboolture Qld Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD" <John.Livingston(at)wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
I agree with most of Boud's comments, but on the flip side, Calbie Wood has
plans for a metal wing with wing tanks. Pretty straight forward, if metal is
your media. I am putting all of my fuel in the wing for safety purposes and
to free up space behind the dash. In order to keep the fuel system simple
I'd either put it all in the wings or all behind the dash. If you are going
to use a small engine there is no need for anymore span than the W10 has.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Fincher" <backcountry(at)peedeeworld.net> |
| Subject: | 0-320 installed in W-8 |
I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing a 0-320. I was told that
the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be installed. Is there any out there
flying? If so what needs to be done? Any replies will be appreciated. Thanks,
Gary Fincher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas P. Wilson" <twilson(at)clinic.net> |
| Subject: | W-10 Project for sale |
Hello All,
I am new to the list and, honestly, have subscribed primarily to offer my project
for sale. Long story, but I ended up with two projects and really cannot
justify that. I have a Zodiac which I believed was sold when the Tailwind project
became available and was simply too good to pass up. The basic fuselage
structure is nearly complete with the tail feathers pretty much done, the push-pull
tube installed and control stick built. The project comes with the tailwheel
assembly and also a set of Harmon Lange landing gear, rudder pedals are built
and brake master cylinders are included. Additional material is included
for the motor mount (no work on that yet). I have the updated plans and also had
previously been fascinated by Callby Wood's metal wing plans and have started
building same. Many of the needed materials are on hand. I have cut the main
spar extrusions to basic size but the taper is yet to be cut. I have the heavy
AL for the root doublers, with on cut to size. Rib form blocks are made and
AL faced. I have made ribs for one wing and have cut out the main rib blanks
for the other. The spar webs are sheared to size and so is one of the .032 wing
skins. I used 2024 T-3 for all except the outer wing skins, as to which the
designer says 6061 T-6 will be acceptable. I have the 4130 tubing for the ailerons/flaps
and have cut it to length. Have also cut the tubing for the "hinges"
and both rear spars and bent. The rear spars are 8' long and require splicing
to make the required 9'4" (approx.) overall length, just as the original required.
Those extensions are already bent, and I have blanks for the hinge doublers.
I am asking essentially my out of pocket with no consideration for labor,
and, at present, have no interest in "splitting" the project up - that is I
need to sell fuselage and accessories and wing project at one time. I am asking
$4,000.00 (U.S.) and am located in Georgetown, Maine (midcoast area). When I
inspected the fuselage, I was accompanied by Grady Sharpe, my friend and Chapter
87 technical counselor of long standing. He agreed with me that the workmanship
was excellent. He is willing to talk with any seriously interested party
to confirm this observation. The fuselage incorporates the "Clement" mods. Oh
yes, the seats and flap handle are also made. I transported his project on the
rear of a pick up truck with an 8' bed and the tailgate lowered. I "sticks out"
4-5' and I simply flagged it for transport. This message is being posted at
7:35 A.M. on Saturday and we are about to leave for the day (to celebrate father-in-laws
90th birthday) but I will respond to inquiries upon my return. Telephone
inquiries are welcome during reasonable hours (east coast) at 207 371-2713.
Thank you for reading this lengthy diatribe. Tom Wilson
________________________________________________________________________________
The magazine "Aviation History" March 2003 issue has a 7
page biography on Steve Wittman done by Don Berliner. It is
fairly straight forward.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 installed in W-8 |
Gary,
The W-8 airframe is about 7 inches shorter than a W-10 and it has less
horizontal stabilizer area as well as different design horizontal stabilizer
incidence. If you assume that your weight and balance will be OK (which it
won't), the higher speed will cause a higher wing torsion moment on the
airframe which will require a greater balancing force from the horizontal
stabilizer. This means you will have to reset the leading edge of the tail
down. This will cause greater trim drag, and reduce the amount of nose-down
force available for such tings as high angle of attach recovery. The net
increase in airspeed will not be what you might expect and you will
substantialy reduce the stability of the airplane. In certified airplanes
that went to bigger engines over the years, (like cessna 210 and Piper
Comanche) the solution was/is a complicated system of balance springs and
bob weights attached to the elevator system; certainly not what you want to
put in a Tailwind. If you compute the numbers on horsepower only, (forget
increased weight, cooling drag, trim drag, propeller efficiency, etc.) the
expected speed increase from a 150 hp engine would be about 18%, but given
everything else thats involved, it probably wouldn't even be 10%. Also ,
you would have an airplane that is less stable, feel sluggish on the
controls (especially in pitch), have less useful load and range, etc., etc.
See why Steve said, "keep it light"? In my opinion, a W-8 is one of the
best airplanes ever designed for 85-100 hp, keep it that way.
Boud Kuenen
NX888WT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Fincher" <backcountry(at)peedeeworld.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
>
> I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing a 0-320. I was
told that the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be installed. Is there
any out there flying? If so what needs to be done? Any replies will be
appreciated. Thanks, Gary Fincher
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net> |
I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will probably work
on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near the 150
mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious. JohnD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Walter Critchlow" <wjc1(at)sprint.ca> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
>
> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will probably
work
> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near the
150
> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious. JohnD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)att.net> |
John D
My friend 's tailwind with a 0-200 would cruise 155 @ 2450rpm . I really
liked the way it handled , it felt just like my TW with a 0-320. The only
difference is take off and climb rate seems a little weak and runway
requirements are more. The landings are slower and more manageable with the
reduced engine weight , it puts the cg back a bit farther. I don't the 85
would be much different.
Earl Luce
Buttercup - N18263
TW- NX 264 WM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Critchlow" <wjc1(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
> To: "tailwind"
> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
>
>
> >
> > I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will probably
> work
> > on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near the
> 150
> > mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious. JohnD
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flamini2" <flamini2(at)attbi.com> |
John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the same as
full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations back to
1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing much
better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's were
entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at 231.61mph.
TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate Dash
2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the finish but
we calc his time=abt 160 mph
As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going to be
tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
----- Original Message -----
From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
>
> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will probably
work
> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near the
150
> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious. JohnD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick and Cindy <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net> |
Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some races, should be
a hoot, huh!
Rick N241SW
flamini2 wrote:
>
> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the same as
> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
>
> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations back to
> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing much
> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's were
> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at 231.61mph.
> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate Dash
> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the finish but
> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going to be
> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
> To: "tailwind"
> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
>
> >
> > I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will probably
> work
> > on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near the
> 150
> > mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious. JohnD
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Turner <tailwind222(at)yahoo.com> |
WITTMAN TAILWIND W10 AIRCRAFT PERFORMANCE REPORT OVERVIEW
BY BRIEN A SEELEY
Cafe Test of Jim Clements 160 HP Tailwind N6168X
The high altitude cruise speeds of this Tailwind would imply that it is capable
of 220 mph at sea level. The owner has reported near 220 mph IAS in level flight
at 2900 RPM at low altitude.
http://members.eaa.org/home/flight_reports/wittman_tailwind.html
George......Phoenix
John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the same as
full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations back to
1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing much
better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's were
entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at 231.61mph.
TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate Dash
2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the finish but
we calc his time=abt 160 mph
As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going to be
tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
----- Original Message -----
From: "john"
Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
>
> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will probably
work
> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near the
150
> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious. JohnD
>
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flamini2" <flamini2(at)attbi.com> |
Rick and Cindy,
i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a little over
1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
Dennis in Chicago
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
>
> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some races,
should be
> a hoot, huh!
> Rick N241SW
>
> flamini2 wrote:
>
> >
> > John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the same
as
> > full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
> >
> > All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations back
to
> > 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
> > competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing much
> > better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's were
> > entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at 231.61mph.
> > TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
> > 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
> > 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
> > 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
> > 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate Dash
> > 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
> > 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the finish
but
> > we calc his time=abt 160 mph
> > As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going to be
> > tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
> > Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
> > Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
> > To: "tailwind"
> > Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >
> > >
> > > I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will probably
> > work
> > > on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near
the
> > 150
> > > mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious.
JohnD
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Weaver <Mytyweav(at)flash.net> |
Jerome Thiessen mentioned to me that he and Steve flew the O&O at 250
indicated zipping across the farmlands. The airplane did have
capabilities..
Weav
On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 06:53 AM, flamini2 wrote:
>
> Rick and Cindy,
> i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a little
> over
> 1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
> Dennis in Chicago
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
>
>
>>
>>
>> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some races,
> should be
>> a hoot, huh!
>> Rick N241SW
>>
>> flamini2 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the
>>> same
> as
>>> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
>>>
>>> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations
>>> back
> to
>>> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
>>> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing
>>> much
>>> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's were
>>> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at 231.61mph.
>>> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
>>> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
>>> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
>>> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
>>> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate Dash
>>> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
>>> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the finish
> but
>>> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
>>> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going to
>>> be
>>> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
>>> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
>>> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
>>> To: "tailwind"
>>> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will
>>>> probably
>>> work
>>>> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near
> the
>>> 150
>>>> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious.
> JohnD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com> |
Rick,
When I first got interested in the O&O I talked to Mac Mckenna, and he told
me that he was in it with Steve one day at 10,000 ft with the throttle all
the way in, giving a true airspeed of 218 mph. Since I am a numbers kind of
guy, that reduces to 187 mph indicated while the engine was generating about
166 hp, (ASSUMING IT WAS A STANDARD DAY). Since this was in Florida, the
temp was probably above standard, so the density altitude was higher than
10K. If this trial was conducted at an actual density altitude of, say,
12K, all this would suggest the airplane was capable of about 225 mph cruise
at 7,500.
Regards,
Boud Kuenen
NX888WT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)flash.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
>
> Jerome Thiessen mentioned to me that he and Steve flew the O&O at 250
> indicated zipping across the farmlands. The airplane did have
> capabilities..
> Weav
> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 06:53 AM, flamini2 wrote:
>
> >
> > Rick and Cindy,
> > i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a little
> > over
> > 1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
> > Dennis in Chicago
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some races,
> > should be
> >> a hoot, huh!
> >> Rick N241SW
> >>
> >> flamini2 wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the
> >>> same
> > as
> >>> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
> >>>
> >>> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations
> >>> back
> > to
> >>> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
> >>> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing
> >>> much
> >>> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's were
> >>> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at 231.61mph.
> >>> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
> >>> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
> >>> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
> >>> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
> >>> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate Dash
> >>> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
> >>> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the finish
> > but
> >>> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
> >>> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going to
> >>> be
> >>> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
> >>> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
> >>> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
> >>> To: "tailwind"
> >>> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will
> >>>> probably
> >>> work
> >>>> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near
> > the
> >>> 150
> >>>> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious.
> > JohnD
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net> |
>SPEED!!! a real Tailwind topic.
>Two questions, other than h.p. why would the O & O be faster than
>the TW? Does it have less frontal plate for example. Secondly, how
>fast can a good TW be? Fred, going downhill how fast have you
>gone. I believe I read of someone approaching 300 mph in a dive but
>I can't find the reference. Maybe it was Steve. Jerry
>Rick,
>
>When I first got interested in the O&O I talked to Mac Mckenna, and he told
>me that he was in it with Steve one day at 10,000 ft with the throttle all
>the way in, giving a true airspeed of 218 mph. Since I am a numbers kind of
>guy, that reduces to 187 mph indicated while the engine was generating about
>166 hp, (ASSUMING IT WAS A STANDARD DAY). Since this was in Florida, the
>temp was probably above standard, so the density altitude was higher than
>10K. If this trial was conducted at an actual density altitude of, say,
>12K, all this would suggest the airplane was capable of about 225 mph cruise
>at 7,500.
>
>Regards,
>Boud Kuenen
>NX888WT
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)flash.net>
>To:
>Subject: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
>
>
>>
>> Jerome Thiessen mentioned to me that he and Steve flew the O&O at 250
>> indicated zipping across the farmlands. The airplane did have
>> capabilities..
>> Weav
>> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 06:53 AM, flamini2 wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Rick and Cindy,
>> > i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a little
>> > over
>> > 1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
>> > Dennis in Chicago
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
>> > To:
>> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some races,
>> > should be
>> >> a hoot, huh!
>> >> Rick N241SW
>> >>
>> >> flamini2 wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the
>> >>> same
>> > as
>> >>> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
>> >>>
>> >>> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations
>> >>> back
>> > to
>> >>> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
>> >>> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing
>> >>> much
>> >>> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's were
>> >>> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at 231.61mph.
>> >>> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
>> >>> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
>> >>> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
>> >>> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
>> >>> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate Dash
> > >>> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
> > >>> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the finish
> > > but
> > >>> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
> > >>> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going to
>> >>> be
>> >>> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
>> >>> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
>> >>> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
>> >>> To: "tailwind"
>> >>> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will
>> >>>> probably
>> >>> work
>> >>>> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near
> > > the
>> >>> 150
>> >>>> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious.
>> > JohnD
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick and Cindy <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net> |
Jerry: HP is a large part of the answer, the other part is a properly matched
constant speed prop. The first is probably easier than the last.
Rick N241SW
Jerry Hey wrote:
>
>
> >SPEED!!! a real Tailwind topic.
>
> >Two questions, other than h.p. why would the O & O be faster than
> >the TW? Does it have less frontal plate for example. Secondly, how
> >fast can a good TW be? Fred, going downhill how fast have you
> >gone. I believe I read of someone approaching 300 mph in a dive but
> >I can't find the reference. Maybe it was Steve. Jerry
>
> >Rick,
> >
> >When I first got interested in the O&O I talked to Mac Mckenna, and he told
> >me that he was in it with Steve one day at 10,000 ft with the throttle all
> >the way in, giving a true airspeed of 218 mph. Since I am a numbers kind of
> >guy, that reduces to 187 mph indicated while the engine was generating about
> >166 hp, (ASSUMING IT WAS A STANDARD DAY). Since this was in Florida, the
> >temp was probably above standard, so the density altitude was higher than
> >10K. If this trial was conducted at an actual density altitude of, say,
> >12K, all this would suggest the airplane was capable of about 225 mph cruise
> >at 7,500.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Boud Kuenen
> >NX888WT
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)flash.net>
> >To:
> >Subject: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Jerome Thiessen mentioned to me that he and Steve flew the O&O at 250
> >> indicated zipping across the farmlands. The airplane did have
> >> capabilities..
> >> Weav
> >> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 06:53 AM, flamini2 wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Rick and Cindy,
> >> > i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a little
> >> > over
> >> > 1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
> >> > Dennis in Chicago
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
> >> > To:
> >> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some races,
> >> > should be
> >> >> a hoot, huh!
> >> >> Rick N241SW
> >> >>
> >> >> flamini2 wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the
> >> >>> same
> >> > as
> >> >>> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations
> >> >>> back
> >> > to
> >> >>> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
> >> >>> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing
> >> >>> much
> >> >>> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's were
> >> >>> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at 231.61mph.
> >> >>> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
> >> >>> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
> >> >>> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
> >> >>> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
> >> >>> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate Dash
> > > >>> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
> > > >>> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the finish
> > > > but
> > > >>> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
> > > >>> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going to
> >> >>> be
> >> >>> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
> >> >>> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
> >> >>> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>> From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
> >> >>> To: "tailwind"
> >> >>> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will
> >> >>>> probably
> >> >>> work
> >> >>>> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near
> > > > the
> >> >>> 150
> >> >>>> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious.
> >> > JohnD
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)att.net> |
Jerry
I was told by someone that Steve hired a guy to test fly one of his TW . He
put a sand bag on the right seat and put it through it's paces when the bag
fell against the control stick . The plane went in a straight down dive and
hit a little over 300. He managed to recover and land without incident .
After a closer look the rear spar carry through was bent.
Earl Luce
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Hey" <j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
>
>
>
> >SPEED!!! a real Tailwind topic.
>
> >Two questions, other than h.p. why would the O & O be faster than
> >the TW? Does it have less frontal plate for example. Secondly, how
> >fast can a good TW be? Fred, going downhill how fast have you
> >gone. I believe I read of someone approaching 300 mph in a dive but
> >I can't find the reference. Maybe it was Steve. Jerry
>
>
> >Rick,
> >
> >When I first got interested in the O&O I talked to Mac Mckenna, and he
told
> >me that he was in it with Steve one day at 10,000 ft with the throttle
all
> >the way in, giving a true airspeed of 218 mph. Since I am a numbers kind
of
> >guy, that reduces to 187 mph indicated while the engine was generating
about
> >166 hp, (ASSUMING IT WAS A STANDARD DAY). Since this was in Florida, the
> >temp was probably above standard, so the density altitude was higher than
> >10K. If this trial was conducted at an actual density altitude of, say,
> >12K, all this would suggest the airplane was capable of about 225 mph
cruise
> >at 7,500.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Boud Kuenen
> >NX888WT
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)flash.net>
> >To:
> >Subject: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Jerome Thiessen mentioned to me that he and Steve flew the O&O at 250
> >> indicated zipping across the farmlands. The airplane did have
> >> capabilities..
> >> Weav
> >> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 06:53 AM, flamini2 wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Rick and Cindy,
> >> > i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a
little
> >> > over
> >> > 1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
> >> > Dennis in Chicago
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
> >> > To:
> >> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some
races,
> >> > should be
> >> >> a hoot, huh!
> >> >> Rick N241SW
> >> >>
> >> >> flamini2 wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the
> >> >>> same
> >> > as
> >> >>> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations
> >> >>> back
> >> > to
> >> >>> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
> >> >>> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not
doing
> >> >>> much
> >> >>> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's
were
> >> >>> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at
231.61mph.
> >> >>> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
> >> >>> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
> >> >>> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
> >> >>> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
> >> >>> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate
Dash
> > > >>> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
> > > >>> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the
finish
> > > > but
> > > >>> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
> > > >>> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going
to
> >> >>> be
> >> >>> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
> >> >>> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
> >> >>> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>> From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
> >> >>> To: "tailwind"
> >> >>> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will
> >> >>>> probably
> >> >>> work
> >> >>>> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting
near
> > > > the
> >> >>> 150
> >> >>>> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious.
> >> > JohnD
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net> |
>Earl, that story was recounted by Jim Stanton in TT number 11.
>The only damage was to the center windshield tube. The g-meter
>registered 8.3 positive and 3.8 negative. That was an accident.
>Anybody do it on purpose? Amazing that one could even load the TW
>wing to 8 gs. How fast is too fast straight and level? How about
>250 mph? Is the TW safe at that speed.
>
>Jerry
> I was told by someone that Steve hired a guy to test fly one of his TW . He
>put a sand bag on the right seat and put it through it's paces when the bag
>fell against the control stick . The plane went in a straight down dive and
>hit a little over 300. He managed to recover and land without incident .
>After a closer look the rear spar carry through was bent.
>Earl Luce
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jerry Hey" <j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
>
>
>>
>
>>
>>
>> >SPEED!!! a real Tailwind topic.
>>
>> >Two questions, other than h.p. why would the O & O be faster than
>> >the TW? Does it have less frontal plate for example. Secondly, how
>> >fast can a good TW be? Fred, going downhill how fast have you
>> >gone. I believe I read of someone approaching 300 mph in a dive but
>> >I can't find the reference. Maybe it was Steve. Jerry
>>
>>
>> >Rick,
>> >
>> >When I first got interested in the O&O I talked to Mac Mckenna, and he
>told
>> >me that he was in it with Steve one day at 10,000 ft with the throttle
>all
>> >the way in, giving a true airspeed of 218 mph. Since I am a numbers kind
>of
>> >guy, that reduces to 187 mph indicated while the engine was generating
>about
>> >166 hp, (ASSUMING IT WAS A STANDARD DAY). Since this was in Florida, the
>> >temp was probably above standard, so the density altitude was higher than
>> >10K. If this trial was conducted at an actual density altitude of, say,
>> >12K, all this would suggest the airplane was capable of about 225 mph
>cruise
>> >at 7,500.
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >Boud Kuenen
>> >NX888WT
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)flash.net>
>> >To:
>> >Subject: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Jerome Thiessen mentioned to me that he and Steve flew the O&O at 250
>> >> indicated zipping across the farmlands. The airplane did have
>> >> capabilities..
>> >> Weav
>> >> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 06:53 AM, flamini2 wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Rick and Cindy,
>> >> > i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a
>little
>> >> > over
>> >> > 1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
>> >> > Dennis in Chicago
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
> > >> > To:
> > >> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
>> >> >> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some
>races,
>> >> > should be
>> >> >> a hoot, huh!
>> >> >> Rick N241SW
>> >> >>
>> >> >> flamini2 wrote:
>> >> >>
>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the
>> >> >>> same
>> >> > as
>> >> >>> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations
>> >> >>> back
>> >> > to
>> >> >>> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
>> >> >>> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not
>doing
>> >> >>> much
>> >> >>> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's
>were
>> >> >>> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at
>231.61mph.
>> >> >>> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
>> >> >>> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
>> >> >>> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
>> >> >>> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
>> >> >>> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate
>Dash
>> > > >>> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
>> > > >>> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the
>finish
>> > > > but
>> > > >>> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
>> > > >>> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going
>to
>> >> >>> be
>> >> >>> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
>> >> >>> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
>> >> >>> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >>> From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
>> >> >>> To: "tailwind"
>> >> >>> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
>> >> >>>
>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will
>> >> >>>> probably
>> >> >>> work
>> >> >>>> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting
>near
>> > > > the
>> >> >>> 150
>> >> >>>> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious.
>> >> > JohnD
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 |
I appreciated Boud's response to the question of a 320 in a W8. How about
an O-235. I have one and have dis-assembled it for rebuilding. I have a
W8/W9 to put it in.
Bill Newkirk,
Fresno, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
>
> Gary,
>
> The W-8 airframe is about 7 inches shorter than a W-10 and it has less
> horizontal stabilizer area as well as different design horizontal
stabilizer
> incidence. If you assume that your weight and balance will be OK (which
it
> won't), the higher speed will cause a higher wing torsion moment on the
> airframe which will require a greater balancing force from the horizontal
> stabilizer. This means you will have to reset the leading edge of the
tail
> down. This will cause greater trim drag, and reduce the amount of
nose-down
> force available for such tings as high angle of attach recovery. The net
> increase in airspeed will not be what you might expect and you will
> substantialy reduce the stability of the airplane. In certified airplanes
> that went to bigger engines over the years, (like cessna 210 and Piper
> Comanche) the solution was/is a complicated system of balance springs and
> bob weights attached to the elevator system; certainly not what you want
to
> put in a Tailwind. If you compute the numbers on horsepower only, (forget
> increased weight, cooling drag, trim drag, propeller efficiency, etc.) the
> expected speed increase from a 150 hp engine would be about 18%, but given
> everything else thats involved, it probably wouldn't even be 10%. Also ,
> you would have an airplane that is less stable, feel sluggish on the
> controls (especially in pitch), have less useful load and range, etc.,
etc.
> See why Steve said, "keep it light"? In my opinion, a W-8 is one of the
> best airplanes ever designed for 85-100 hp, keep it that way.
>
> Boud Kuenen
> NX888WT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Fincher" <backcountry(at)peedeeworld.net>
> To:
> Subject: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
>
>
>
> >
> > I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing a 0-320. I was
> told that the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be installed. Is there
> any out there flying? If so what needs to be done? Any replies will be
> appreciated. Thanks, Gary Fincher
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net> |
Thanks for the info on the W-8, its interesting how much money and fuel one
can pour into the engine ( 0-320 and or 0-360,etc.) to gain 22 or 23 percent
in speed. JohnD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com> |
I have found that engine size doesn't mean much as for fuel burn. If you
have a 160hp tailwind and fly alongside a 100hp tailwind on a cross country,
you both will use about the same amount of fuel. I just flew alongside a
Cessna 182 with my 160hp trigear from Baraboo WI to Salome AZ, about 1500
miles. My fuel burn was 5.6 gph. Engine rpm was 2050-2100 rpm. At 9500 feet
the 182 was full everything and I was only pulling 11 inches of manifold
pressure. On one of the trips to SnF, Russ flew his 90hp TW and I had one of
my 160hp TWs, I used 3 gallons less fuel and was there 1 1/2 hours sooner.
So, if less fuel burn is what you are after, put the O320 in and pull the
throttle back. When it is hot, heavy and density altitude is 4500 feet or
higher, you can still fly. Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8s'
>
> Thanks for the info on the W-8, its interesting how much money and fuel
one
> can pour into the engine ( 0-320 and or 0-360,etc.) to gain 22 or 23
percent
> in speed. JohnD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net> |
>Amen Brother!!! Besides POWER is fun. A 150 mph Tailwind is
>(yawn) a good airplane but it would not keep me awake nights
>dreaming in anticipation. Jerry
>
>I have found that engine size doesn't mean much as for fuel burn. If you
>have a 160hp tailwind and fly alongside a 100hp tailwind on a cross country,
>you both will use about the same amount of fuel. I just flew alongside a
>Cessna 182 with my 160hp trigear from Baraboo WI to Salome AZ, about 1500
>miles. My fuel burn was 5.6 gph. Engine rpm was 2050-2100 rpm. At 9500 feet
>the 182 was full everything and I was only pulling 11 inches of manifold
>pressure. On one of the trips to SnF, Russ flew his 90hp TW and I had one of
>my 160hp TWs, I used 3 gallons less fuel and was there 1 1/2 hours sooner.
>So, if less fuel burn is what you are after, put the O320 in and pull the
>throttle back. When it is hot, heavy and density altitude is 4500 feet or
>higher, you can still fly. Jim
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 |
That would be a fine engine for the airplane. Its a little heavier but the
plans make up for that in the motor mount. (The C/G of the engine ends up
not as far forward of the firewall; Steve had it all covered)
As a quick rule of thumb, speed is proportional to the cube of the
horsepower. Example: an O-320-E2B has 1.5 time the power of an O-200; the
cube root of 1.5 is 1.145; subtract 1 and multiply by 100; you get 14.5%.
All else being equal, (and it never is) the same airplane should theoreticly
be 14.5% faster with a 50% increase in power. Typically you get about 2/3
of that because of increase cooling drag and higher weight. You also
sacrifice useful load and range; not to mention the cost of the engine and
the life long cost of fuel.
Boud Kuenen
NX888WT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
> I appreciated Boud's response to the question of a 320 in a W8. How about
> an O-235. I have one and have dis-assembled it for rebuilding. I have a
> W8/W9 to put it in.
>
> Bill Newkirk,
> Fresno, CA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
>
>
>
> >
> > Gary,
> >
> > The W-8 airframe is about 7 inches shorter than a W-10 and it has less
> > horizontal stabilizer area as well as different design horizontal
> stabilizer
> > incidence. If you assume that your weight and balance will be OK (which
> it
> > won't), the higher speed will cause a higher wing torsion moment on the
> > airframe which will require a greater balancing force from the
horizontal
> > stabilizer. This means you will have to reset the leading edge of the
> tail
> > down. This will cause greater trim drag, and reduce the amount of
> nose-down
> > force available for such tings as high angle of attach recovery. The
net
> > increase in airspeed will not be what you might expect and you will
> > substantialy reduce the stability of the airplane. In certified
airplanes
> > that went to bigger engines over the years, (like cessna 210 and Piper
> > Comanche) the solution was/is a complicated system of balance springs
and
> > bob weights attached to the elevator system; certainly not what you want
> to
> > put in a Tailwind. If you compute the numbers on horsepower only,
(forget
> > increased weight, cooling drag, trim drag, propeller efficiency, etc.)
the
> > expected speed increase from a 150 hp engine would be about 18%, but
given
> > everything else thats involved, it probably wouldn't even be 10%. Also
,
> > you would have an airplane that is less stable, feel sluggish on the
> > controls (especially in pitch), have less useful load and range, etc.,
> etc.
> > See why Steve said, "keep it light"? In my opinion, a W-8 is one of the
> > best airplanes ever designed for 85-100 hp, keep it that way.
> >
> > Boud Kuenen
> > NX888WT
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gary Fincher" <backcountry(at)peedeeworld.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing a 0-320. I
was
> > told that the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be installed. Is
there
> > any out there flying? If so what needs to be done? Any replies will be
> > appreciated. Thanks, Gary Fincher
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 |
Bill: I have a W-8 (but with W-10 tailfeathers and modified W-10 controls)
that I flew with an O-235 for a year (156 hours) both long cross country and
local flights. It is a delightful plane to fly. Max speed was about 157
MPH, but I think I could have gained a few MPH with a prop with a little
less pitch, and perhaps a little cleanup on the airframe here and there. My
biggest complaint was that at gross (1300#, mty was 800#) and higher density
altitudes, the takeoff and climb performance was much like a Cessna 150.
Again, some prop mods could have improved that some. But I want to be able
to fly out of Tahoe and places in New Mexico and Colorado on hot days with
two people and baggage and still have fuel to get somewhere. The O-235 will
not give safe performance with those conditions, in my opinion. Therefore,
I am in the process of converting to a 150 HP O-320. It will fit right in
and the weight is not much more. I am going to add an auxiliary fuel tank
behind the seat, also will help with the W&B.
Dave
N202Q
W-8+
>
> I appreciated Boud's response to the question of a 320 in a W8. How about
> an O-235. I have one and have dis-assembled it for rebuilding. I have a
> W8/W9 to put it in.
>
> Bill Newkirk,
> Fresno, CA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
>
>
>
> >
> > Gary,
> >
> > The W-8 airframe is about 7 inches shorter than a W-10 and it has less
> > horizontal stabilizer area as well as different design horizontal
> stabilizer
> > incidence. If you assume that your weight and balance will be OK (which
> it
> > won't), the higher speed will cause a higher wing torsion moment on the
> > airframe which will require a greater balancing force from the
horizontal
> > stabilizer. This means you will have to reset the leading edge of the
> tail
> > down. This will cause greater trim drag, and reduce the amount of
> nose-down
> > force available for such tings as high angle of attach recovery. The
net
> > increase in airspeed will not be what you might expect and you will
> > substantialy reduce the stability of the airplane. In certified
airplanes
> > that went to bigger engines over the years, (like cessna 210 and Piper
> > Comanche) the solution was/is a complicated system of balance springs
and
> > bob weights attached to the elevator system; certainly not what you want
> to
> > put in a Tailwind. If you compute the numbers on horsepower only,
(forget
> > increased weight, cooling drag, trim drag, propeller efficiency, etc.)
the
> > expected speed increase from a 150 hp engine would be about 18%, but
given
> > everything else thats involved, it probably wouldn't even be 10%. Also
,
> > you would have an airplane that is less stable, feel sluggish on the
> > controls (especially in pitch), have less useful load and range, etc.,
> etc.
> > See why Steve said, "keep it light"? In my opinion, a W-8 is one of the
> > best airplanes ever designed for 85-100 hp, keep it that way.
> >
> > Boud Kuenen
> > NX888WT
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gary Fincher" <backcountry(at)peedeeworld.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing a 0-320. I
was
> > told that the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be installed. Is
there
> > any out there flying? If so what needs to be done? Any replies will be
> > appreciated. Thanks, Gary Fincher
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
>I believe the 300 mph speed referred to was when somebody,
I think Steve was testing the capability of two place
seating in the TAILWIND for the FAA. A weighted bag of
something was placed in the passenger seat. While
manuevering about, the weighted bag came loose and wedged
between the seat and stick. Thus making a full downward
flight and 300 mph or there about was achieved before
recovery was attained. Because the wings stayed on, the
aircraft was thought to be capable to carry a passenger
safly. I remember hearing Steve relate that story. I believe
it was at his 90 or 91st b'day party at Ocala that he
related this. RLM
>
>
>
> >SPEED!!! a real Tailwind topic.
>
> >Two questions, other than h.p. why would the O & O be
> faster than >the TW? Does it have less frontal plate for
> example. Secondly, how >fast can a good TW be? Fred,
> going downhill how fast have you >gone. I believe I
> read of someone approaching 300 mph in a dive but >I
> can't find the reference. Maybe it was Steve. Jerry
>
> >Rick,
> >
> >When I first got interested in the O&O I talked to Mac
> Mckenna, and he told >me that he was in it with Steve one
> day at 10,000 ft with the throttle all >the way in, giving
> a true airspeed of 218 mph. Since I am a numbers kind of
> >guy, that reduces to 187 mph indicated while the engine
> was generating about >166 hp, (ASSUMING IT WAS A STANDARD
> DAY). Since this was in Florida, the >temp was probably
> above standard, so the density altitude was higher than
> >10K. If this trial was conducted at an actual density
> altitude of, say, >12K, all this would suggest the
> airplane was capable of about 225 mph cruise >at 7,500.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Boud Kuenen
> >NX888WT
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)flash.net>
> >To:
> >Subject: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Jerome Thiessen mentioned to me that he and Steve flew
> the O&O at 250 >> indicated zipping across the farmlands.
> The airplane did have >> capabilities..
> >> Weav
> >> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 06:53 AM, flamini2
> wrote: >>
> >> >
> >> > Rick and Cindy,
> >> > i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight
> OSH-OCF a little >> > over
> >> > 1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be
> no problem >> > Dennis in Chicago
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
> >> > To:
> >> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter
> O-O in some races, >> > should be
> >> >> a hoot, huh!
> >> >> Rick N241SW
> >> >>
> >> >> flamini2 wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that
> would be about the >> >>> same
> >> > as
> >> >>> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> All this talk about speed has me going through old
> Sport Aviations >> >>> back
> >> > to
> >> >>> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed,
> payload,fastest lap >> >>> competition in 1978 with lap
> speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing >> >>> much
> >> >>> better today, That sounds good but in the
> following years no TW's were >> >>> entered and by 1985
> the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at 231.61mph. >> >>>
> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun >> >>> 1991
> Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph >> >>> 1993 Lance Truax
> 90 hp 149.60 mph >> >>> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61
> mph >> >>> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was
> > > in the Copperstate Dash >>> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180
> > > hp 195.89 mph >>> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp
> > > > they missed clocking him at the finish but
> > > >>> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
> > > >>> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or
> 233.48 mph going to >> >>> be
> >> >>> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
> >> >>> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on
> your adventures? >> >>> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53
> Chicago >> >>>
> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>> From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
> >> >>> To: "tailwind"
> >> >>> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years
> ago and will >> >>>> probably
> >> >>> work
> >> >>>> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is
> > > > anyone getting near the
> >> >>> 150
> >> >>>> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves
> material. Curious. >> > JohnD
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
>
> the Matronics Forums.
> other List members.
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/tailwind-list _-> Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
_-> Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
_-> List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/tailwind-list _-> Other Lists:
http://www.matronics.com/emaillists _-> Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==============
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailwind speed? |
| From: | Fred Weaver <Mytyweav(at)flash.net> |
Jerry.... I have never pushed beyond 250 indicated. It still feels good
and solid at that speed and I have also pulled very aggressively at that
speed also. This has provided us all with the confidence in Tailwind
wing spars. :) I believe Steve may have pushed to 300 but I wonder
more about the windshield caving in at those speeds. (1/8" plex) If
one were to install thicker plex or Lexan with supports off the tubing
to help it maintain it's curve, I wouldn't be as concerned.
The airplane feels so comfortable at 230 indicated but to do it requires
fuel burn.. I'm too cheap to go that fast all the time. 200 is an
economical speed and even more comfortable. We'll see what happens with
the new prop/props.. I'm hoping everything smooths out and goes a
little faster with the same manifold pressure.
Weav
On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 01:36 PM, Jerry Hey wrote:
> winddesigns(at)thegrid.net>
>
>>
>
>
>> SPEED!!! a real Tailwind topic.
>
>> Two questions, other than h.p. why would the O & O be faster than
>> the TW? Does it have less frontal plate for example. Secondly, how
>> fast can a good TW be? Fred, going downhill how fast have you
>> gone. I believe I read of someone approaching 300 mph in a dive but
>> I can't find the reference. Maybe it was Steve. Jerry
>
>
>> Rick,
>>
>> When I first got interested in the O&O I talked to Mac Mckenna, and he
>> told
>> me that he was in it with Steve one day at 10,000 ft with the throttle
>> all
>> the way in, giving a true airspeed of 218 mph. Since I am a numbers
>> kind of
>> guy, that reduces to 187 mph indicated while the engine was generating
>> about
>> 166 hp, (ASSUMING IT WAS A STANDARD DAY). Since this was in Florida,
>> the
>> temp was probably above standard, so the density altitude was higher
>> than
>> 10K. If this trial was conducted at an actual density altitude of,
>> say,
>> 12K, all this would suggest the airplane was capable of about 225 mph
>> cruise
>> at 7,500.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Boud Kuenen
>> NX888WT
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)flash.net>
>> To:
>> Subject: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Jerome Thiessen mentioned to me that he and Steve flew the O&O at 250
>>> indicated zipping across the farmlands. The airplane did have
>>> capabilities..
>>> Weav
>>> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 06:53 AM, flamini2 wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rick and Cindy,
>>>> i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a little
>>>> over
>>>> 1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
>>>> Dennis in Chicago
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
>>>> To:
>>>> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some races,
>>>> should be
>>>>> a hoot, huh!
>>>>> Rick N241SW
>>>>>
>>>>> flamini2 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the
>>>>>> same
>>>> as
>>>>>> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations
>>>>>> back
>>>> to
>>>>>> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
>>>>>> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing
>>>>>> much
>>>>>> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at
>>>>>> 231.61mph.
>>>>>> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
>>>>>> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
>>>>>> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
>>>>>> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
>>>>>> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate
>>>>>> Dash
>>>>>> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
>>>>>> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the
>>>>>> finish
>>>> but
>>>>>> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
>>>>>> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
>>>>>> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
>>>>>> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
>>>>>> To: "tailwind"
>>>>>> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will
>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>> work
>>>>>>> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting
>>>>>>> near
>>>> the
>>>>>> 150
>>>>>>> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious.
>>>> JohnD
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailwind W-8 speed |
| From: | Fred Weaver <Mytyweav(at)flash.net> |
John... The one thing you will find out soon is the difference in Take
Off Distance, Rate of Climb and the ability to carry a much heavier
load. Hopefully, your rotary will does as well as an 0-320..
Good Luck, :)
Weav
On Wednesday, January 22, 2003, at 05:44 PM, john wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info on the W-8, its interesting how much money and fuel
> one
> can pour into the engine ( 0-320 and or 0-360,etc.) to gain 22 or 23
> percent
> in speed. JohnD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)att.net> |
Jerry
My friend Boud can calculate most any number I need . He has done allot on
TW already . he said that the wing alone was good for 20 g's.
How did the TT article go , I didn't hear back from you ?
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Hey" <j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
>
>
> >Earl, that story was recounted by Jim Stanton in TT number 11.
> >The only damage was to the center windshield tube. The g-meter
> >registered 8.3 positive and 3.8 negative. That was an accident.
> >Anybody do it on purpose? Amazing that one could even load the TW
> >wing to 8 gs. How fast is too fast straight and level? How about
> >250 mph? Is the TW safe at that speed.
>
>
> >
> >Jerry
> > I was told by someone that Steve hired a guy to test fly one of his TW
. He
> >put a sand bag on the right seat and put it through it's paces when the
bag
> >fell against the control stick . The plane went in a straight down dive
and
> >hit a little over 300. He managed to recover and land without incident .
> >After a closer look the rear spar carry through was bent.
> >Earl Luce
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Jerry Hey" <j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net>
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
> >
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> >SPEED!!! a real Tailwind topic.
> >>
> >> >Two questions, other than h.p. why would the O & O be faster than
> >> >the TW? Does it have less frontal plate for example. Secondly, how
> >> >fast can a good TW be? Fred, going downhill how fast have you
> >> >gone. I believe I read of someone approaching 300 mph in a dive but
> >> >I can't find the reference. Maybe it was Steve. Jerry
> >>
> >>
> >> >Rick,
> >> >
> >> >When I first got interested in the O&O I talked to Mac Mckenna, and
he
> >told
> >> >me that he was in it with Steve one day at 10,000 ft with the
throttle
> >all
> >> >the way in, giving a true airspeed of 218 mph. Since I am a numbers
kind
> >of
> >> >guy, that reduces to 187 mph indicated while the engine was
generating
> >about
> >> >166 hp, (ASSUMING IT WAS A STANDARD DAY). Since this was in Florida,
the
> >> >temp was probably above standard, so the density altitude was higher
than
> >> >10K. If this trial was conducted at an actual density altitude of,
say,
> >> >12K, all this would suggest the airplane was capable of about 225 mph
> >cruise
> >> >at 7,500.
> >> >
> >> >Regards,
> >> >Boud Kuenen
> >> >NX888WT
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)flash.net>
> >> >To:
> >> >Subject: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Jerome Thiessen mentioned to me that he and Steve flew the O&O at
250
> >> >> indicated zipping across the farmlands. The airplane did have
> >> >> capabilities..
> >> >> Weav
> >> >> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 06:53 AM, flamini2 wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Rick and Cindy,
> >> >> > i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a
> >little
> >> >> > over
> >> >> > 1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
> >> >> > Dennis in Chicago
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> > From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
> > > >> > To:
> > > >> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> >> >> >> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some
> >races,
> >> >> > should be
> >> >> >> a hoot, huh!
> >> >> >> Rick N241SW
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> flamini2 wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about
the
> >> >> >>> same
> >> >> > as
> >> >> >>> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport
Aviations
> >> >> >>> back
> >> >> > to
> >> >> >>> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest
lap
> >> >> >>> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not
> >doing
> >> >> >>> much
> >> >> >>> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no
TW's
> >were
> >> >> >>> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at
> >231.61mph.
> >> >> >>> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
> >> >> >>> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
> >> >> >>> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
> >> >> >>> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
> >> >> >>> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the
Copperstate
> >Dash
> >> > > >>> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
> >> > > >>> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at
the
> >finish
> >> > > > but
> >> > > >>> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
> >> > > >>> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph
going
> >to
> >> >> >>> be
> >> >> >>> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
> >> >> >>> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your
adventures?
> >> >> >>> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> >>> From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
> >> >> >>> To: "tailwind"
> >> >> >>> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >> >> >>>
> >
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will
> >> >> >>>> probably
> >> >> >>> work
> >> >> >>>> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone
getting
> >near
> >> > > > the
> >> >> >>> 150
> >> >> >>>> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material.
Curious.
> >> >> > JohnD
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net> |
> Earl, the article looks good. We plan to mail the TT tomorrow.
>Do you think Baud would be willing to have his structural analysis
>published in the TT? I would like to correspond with him but I
>don't have his e-mail address. Could you ask him to drop me a note
>or send me his address. Thanks Jerry
>Jerry
> My friend Boud can calculate most any number I need . He has done allot on
>TW already . he said that the wing alone was good for 20 g's.
> How did the TT article go , I didn't hear back from you ?
>Earl
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jerry Hey" <j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> >Earl, that story was recounted by Jim Stanton in TT number 11.
>> >The only damage was to the center windshield tube. The g-meter
>> >registered 8.3 positive and 3.8 negative. That was an accident.
>> >Anybody do it on purpose? Amazing that one could even load the TW
>> >wing to 8 gs. How fast is too fast straight and level? How about
>> >250 mph? Is the TW safe at that speed.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Jerry
>> > I was told by someone that Steve hired a guy to test fly one of his TW
>. He
>> >put a sand bag on the right seat and put it through it's paces when the
>bag
>> >fell against the control stick . The plane went in a straight down dive
>and
>> >hit a little over 300. He managed to recover and land without incident .
>> >After a closer look the rear spar carry through was bent.
>> >Earl Luce
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Jerry Hey" <j-winddesigns(at)thegrid.net>
>> >To:
>> >Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
>> >
>> >
>
>> >>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >SPEED!!! a real Tailwind topic.
>> >>
>> >> >Two questions, other than h.p. why would the O & O be faster than
>> >> >the TW? Does it have less frontal plate for example. Secondly, how
>> >> >fast can a good TW be? Fred, going downhill how fast have you
>> >> >gone. I believe I read of someone approaching 300 mph in a dive but
>> >> >I can't find the reference. Maybe it was Steve. Jerry
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Rick,
>> >> >
>> >> >When I first got interested in the O&O I talked to Mac Mckenna, and
>he
>> >told
>> >> >me that he was in it with Steve one day at 10,000 ft with the
>throttle
>> >all
>> >> >the way in, giving a true airspeed of 218 mph. Since I am a numbers
>kind
>> >of
>> >> >guy, that reduces to 187 mph indicated while the engine was
>generating
>> >about
>> >> >166 hp, (ASSUMING IT WAS A STANDARD DAY). Since this was in Florida,
>the
>> >> >temp was probably above standard, so the density altitude was higher
>than
>> >> >10K. If this trial was conducted at an actual density altitude of,
>say,
> > >> >12K, all this would suggest the airplane was capable of about 225 mph
> > >cruise
> > >> >at 7,500.
> > >> >
> > >> >Regards,
> > >> >Boud Kuenen
> > >> >NX888WT
>> >> >----- Original Message -----
>> >> >From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav(at)flash.net>
>> >> >To:
>> >> >Subject: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Jerome Thiessen mentioned to me that he and Steve flew the O&O at
>250
>> >> >> indicated zipping across the farmlands. The airplane did have
>> >> >> capabilities..
>> >> >> Weav
>> >> >> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 06:53 AM, flamini2 wrote:
>> >> >>
>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Rick and Cindy,
>> >> >> > i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a
> > >little
>> >> >> > over
>> >> >> > 1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
>> >> >> > Dennis in Chicago
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> > From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
>> > > >> > To:
>> > > >> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>
>> >> >> >> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some
>> >races,
>> >> >> > should be
>> >> >> >> a hoot, huh!
>> >> >> >> Rick N241SW
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> flamini2 wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about
>the
>> >> >> >>> same
>> >> >> > as
>> >> >> >>> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport
>Aviations
>> >> >> >>> back
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >>> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest
>lap
>> >> >> >>> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not
>> >doing
>> >> >> >>> much
>> >> >> >>> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no
>TW's
>> >were
>> >> >> >>> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at
>> >231.61mph.
>> >> >> >>> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
>> >> >> >>> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
>> >> >> >>> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
>> >> >> >>> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
>> >> >> >>> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the
>Copperstate
>> >Dash
>> >> > > >>> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
>> >> > > >>> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at
>the
>> >finish
>> >> > > > but
>> >> > > >>> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
>> >> > > >>> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph
>going
>> >to
>> >> >> >>> be
>> >> >> >>> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
>> >> >> >>> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your
>adventures?
>> >> >> >>> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> >>> From: "john" <frmrjohn(at)netonecom.net>
>> >> >> >>> To: "tailwind"
>> >> >> >>> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
>> >> >> >>>
>> >
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will
>> >> >> >>>> probably
>> >> >> >>> work
>> >> >> >>>> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone
>getting
>> >near
>> >> > > > the
>> >> >> >>> 150
>> >> >> >>>> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material.
>Curious.
>> >> >> > JohnD
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Eldredge" <andrewe(at)byu.edu> |
I'm looking for the Article you cited, Checked with my local library in
years 2002 and 2001, Was that the right refrence?
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
Building Jigs
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
mlinda(at)wt.net
Subject: Tailwind-List: STEVES BIO
The magazine "Aviation History" March 2003 issue has a 7
page biography on Steve Wittman done by Don Berliner. It is fairly
straight forward.
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Eldredge" <andrewe(at)byu.edu> |
Well, the Harold B. Lee Librarians came through for me and found the
article in electronic format now. It makes for fascinating reading for
guys like me who have only a glimmer of an idea of the aviation and
racing climate was like back in the day. It makes me proud to have a
guy like Steve behind my project.
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
mlinda(at)wt.net
Subject: Tailwind-List: STEVES BIO
The magazine "Aviation History" March 2003 issue has a 7
page biography on Steve Wittman done by Don Berliner. It is fairly
straight forward.
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Bernard" <billbernard(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
Ross, I'm another one of the guys building metal wings. My tailwind will be
powered with an O-320 Lycoming and will not have fuel in the wings.
I built the wings from Calbie Woods' plans and did not have any trouble
buying materials. I got them from Wicks Aircraft Supply in Highland, IL, for
what it's worth.
I decided on metal since I had the tools to work it, and did not have the
tools to work with wood. I was also building the wings in a hangar without
heat in the winter, so temperatures became an issue.
I left the fuel out of the wings because it looked like it would be a big
job to seal the wings, and possibly a maintenance problem at some point in
the future if the wings began to leak. Also, there was no help from the
plans as to how to actually construct the tanks, just a note that said "the
tanks goe here".
It also appeard to me that fuel pumps would be necessary to get fuel out of
the tanks reliably. I understand that the prototype had them, but that
another tailwind, which put all the fuel in the wings, did not. (This one
was described in the Tailwind Times.) In order to keep things simple, I
elected to go with a single tank in the fuselage. I am in the process of
building that now. I hope for about 30 gallons which should be adequate for
my needs. I think the advice about this quantity of fuel and a small engine
is sound. Remember that any aircraft will only lift so much and it is
possible to put in so much fuel that there is no way to carry anything else.
I also agree that the metal wing will probably be slower than an equivalent
wooden wing. The surface will be rougher just due to the thin metal skins.
How much difference this makes will probably vary from aircraft to aircraft.
I would also point out that if you intend to incorporate some of Jim
Clement's modifications, there can be a conflict with the metal wing. As
designed, the flap/aileron torque tubes are two inches (approximately)
further forward than they are in the wooden wing. If the door is enlarged,
the pushrods go across the door opening, if other parts are built as
designed. Things also get tight if the off set rear spar carry-thru is used.
Things will fit, but it gets close.
The metal wing is an option, depending on one's skills and comfort with
various materials. I'll know more after my aircraft flys.
Good Luck
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>
> G'day All
>
> I am now putting together all my info I have collected on building a W10
TW and would like any of your thoughts on building metal wings (and any
thing else you may think I should consider). I am comfortable working with
alloy and would like to carry more fuel than the under-dash tank will hold
(remember it is a large country with a lot of nothing in-between some of our
waypoints and you have to carry enough fuel to get home or to a fuel supply.
Avgas is had to get out in the bush here). Could anybody advise me on the
pros and cons of the two wing choices. I am also considering adding 1 foot
more of wing per side.
>
> I intend using a Rotax 914 (115hp)or a 3300 (120hp) Jabiru 6 cyl so I can
keep the weight down so as it can be registered with the AUF (Australian
Ultralight Federation). I will be quite happy with 120 knot + cruise. I
have flown ultralights for 15 years and do not want to get involved with
GA's and our Governments CASA with 100 hourly's and the associated expense.
>
> I have a CFM Streak Shadow (860 hours on the clock) I built from a kit
which now has a 2200 Jabiru that I have flown all around the eastern side of
Australia for the last 10 years. Next month in February I will be flying
down to Avalon Airport near Melbourne Victoria to the Avalon Airshow from my
home base at Caboolture just north of Brisbane Queensland. I need a good
cross country aircraft to go further a-field and I feel a TW looks like the
answer. A friend of mine is also wishing to build one with me if I go
ahead. There are only a hand full of TW here in Australia and most of them
are W8s'. I was told there is three W10 under construction in NSW the state
below Queensland were I live. I am lucky enough to have a W8 hangered 2
doors away form me at Caboolture (www.cabaeroclub.org.au) which I have flown
three times and was quite impressed with its performance with the 0-200
(100hp) in it. Please feel free to check our web site out. Awaiting you
replies.
>
> Ross Leach (Caboolture, Queensland, Australia)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 |
DAVE;
Thanks for your reply.
How much modification have you done to the tail feathers?
Bill Newkirk
Fresno
N13BN (Murphy Rebel)
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
> Bill: I have a W-8 (but with W-10 tailfeathers and modified W-10
controls)
> that I flew with an O-235 for a year (156 hours) both long cross country
and
> local flights. It is a delightful plane to fly. Max speed was about 157
> MPH, but I think I could have gained a few MPH with a prop with a little
> less pitch, and perhaps a little cleanup on the airframe here and there.
My
> biggest complaint was that at gross (1300#, mty was 800#) and higher
density
> altitudes, the takeoff and climb performance was much like a Cessna 150.
> Again, some prop mods could have improved that some. But I want to be
able
> to fly out of Tahoe and places in New Mexico and Colorado on hot days with
> two people and baggage and still have fuel to get somewhere. The O-235
will
> not give safe performance with those conditions, in my opinion.
Therefore,
> I am in the process of converting to a 150 HP O-320. It will fit right in
> and the weight is not much more. I am going to add an auxiliary fuel tank
> behind the seat, also will help with the W&B.
>
> Dave
> N202Q
> W-8+
>
> >
> > I appreciated Boud's response to the question of a 320 in a W8. How
about
> > an O-235. I have one and have dis-assembled it for rebuilding. I have
a
> > W8/W9 to put it in.
> >
> > Bill Newkirk,
> > Fresno, CA
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Gary,
> > >
> > > The W-8 airframe is about 7 inches shorter than a W-10 and it has less
> > > horizontal stabilizer area as well as different design horizontal
> > stabilizer
> > > incidence. If you assume that your weight and balance will be OK
(which
> > it
> > > won't), the higher speed will cause a higher wing torsion moment on
the
> > > airframe which will require a greater balancing force from the
> horizontal
> > > stabilizer. This means you will have to reset the leading edge of the
> > tail
> > > down. This will cause greater trim drag, and reduce the amount of
> > nose-down
> > > force available for such tings as high angle of attach recovery. The
> net
> > > increase in airspeed will not be what you might expect and you will
> > > substantialy reduce the stability of the airplane. In certified
> airplanes
> > > that went to bigger engines over the years, (like cessna 210 and Piper
> > > Comanche) the solution was/is a complicated system of balance springs
> and
> > > bob weights attached to the elevator system; certainly not what you
want
> > to
> > > put in a Tailwind. If you compute the numbers on horsepower only,
> (forget
> > > increased weight, cooling drag, trim drag, propeller efficiency, etc.)
> the
> > > expected speed increase from a 150 hp engine would be about 18%, but
> given
> > > everything else thats involved, it probably wouldn't even be 10%.
Also
> ,
> > > you would have an airplane that is less stable, feel sluggish on the
> > > controls (especially in pitch), have less useful load and range, etc.,
> > etc.
> > > See why Steve said, "keep it light"? In my opinion, a W-8 is one of
the
> > > best airplanes ever designed for 85-100 hp, keep it that way.
> > >
> > > Boud Kuenen
> > > NX888WT
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Gary Fincher" <backcountry(at)peedeeworld.net>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing a 0-320. I
> was
> > > told that the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be installed. Is
> there
> > > any out there flying? If so what needs to be done? Any replies will be
> > > appreciated. Thanks, Gary Fincher
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Stroud" <davestroud(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
Nicely said, Bill. A couple of bits of info if I may. The Widow of the late Les
Staples, a long time
EAA chapter 245 member, has a pair of W10 wood wings for sale. They were well built
and done
to the extent of lower skin attached, ready for inspection. I think I saw some
4130 tubing as well,
that I suspect would be for the aileron parts. Nice work and the asking price 6
months ago was
$2K Cdn. I think the top skin ply was included too.
I could give her a call if anyone is interested.
Jack Steele is my local Tailwind contact, a fine dood with a fine Tailwind example,
racking up many
hours over the last 20 years or so. The reason for my interest on this list is
to figure out what to build
next and my interest runs from a Minicoupe to a Fairchild FC2.
Dave Stroud
L 16 B replica (Christavia)
C-FDWS Ottawa, Canada
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Bernard" <billbernard(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>
> Ross, I'm another one of the guys building metal wings. My tailwind will be
> powered with an O-320 Lycoming and will not have fuel in the wings.
>
> I built the wings from Calbie Woods' plans and did not have any trouble
> buying materials. I got them from Wicks Aircraft Supply in Highland, IL, for
> what it's worth.
>
> I decided on metal since I had the tools to work it, and did not have the
> tools to work with wood. I was also building the wings in a hangar without
> heat in the winter, so temperatures became an issue.
>
> I left the fuel out of the wings because it looked like it would be a big
> job to seal the wings, and possibly a maintenance problem at some point in
> the future if the wings began to leak. Also, there was no help from the
> plans as to how to actually construct the tanks, just a note that said "the
> tanks goe here".
>
> It also appeard to me that fuel pumps would be necessary to get fuel out of
> the tanks reliably. I understand that the prototype had them, but that
> another tailwind, which put all the fuel in the wings, did not. (This one
> was described in the Tailwind Times.) In order to keep things simple, I
> elected to go with a single tank in the fuselage. I am in the process of
> building that now. I hope for about 30 gallons which should be adequate for
> my needs. I think the advice about this quantity of fuel and a small engine
> is sound. Remember that any aircraft will only lift so much and it is
> possible to put in so much fuel that there is no way to carry anything else.
>
> I also agree that the metal wing will probably be slower than an equivalent
> wooden wing. The surface will be rougher just due to the thin metal skins.
> How much difference this makes will probably vary from aircraft to aircraft.
>
> I would also point out that if you intend to incorporate some of Jim
> Clement's modifications, there can be a conflict with the metal wing. As
> designed, the flap/aileron torque tubes are two inches (approximately)
> further forward than they are in the wooden wing. If the door is enlarged,
> the pushrods go across the door opening, if other parts are built as
> designed. Things also get tight if the off set rear spar carry-thru is used.
> Things will fit, but it gets close.
>
> The metal wing is an option, depending on one's skills and comfort with
> various materials. I'll know more after my aircraft flys.
>
> Good Luck
>
> Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs(at)powerup.com.au>
> To: "Tailwind-List"
> Subject: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>
>
>
> >
> > G'day All
> >
> > I am now putting together all my info I have collected on building a W10
> TW and would like any of your thoughts on building metal wings (and any
> thing else you may think I should consider). I am comfortable working with
> alloy and would like to carry more fuel than the under-dash tank will hold
> (remember it is a large country with a lot of nothing in-between some of our
> waypoints and you have to carry enough fuel to get home or to a fuel supply.
> Avgas is had to get out in the bush here). Could anybody advise me on the
> pros and cons of the two wing choices. I am also considering adding 1 foot
> more of wing per side.
> >
> > I intend using a Rotax 914 (115hp)or a 3300 (120hp) Jabiru 6 cyl so I can
> keep the weight down so as it can be registered with the AUF (Australian
> Ultralight Federation). I will be quite happy with 120 knot + cruise. I
> have flown ultralights for 15 years and do not want to get involved with
> GA's and our Governments CASA with 100 hourly's and the associated expense.
> >
> > I have a CFM Streak Shadow (860 hours on the clock) I built from a kit
> which now has a 2200 Jabiru that I have flown all around the eastern side of
> Australia for the last 10 years. Next month in February I will be flying
> down to Avalon Airport near Melbourne Victoria to the Avalon Airshow from my
> home base at Caboolture just north of Brisbane Queensland. I need a good
> cross country aircraft to go further a-field and I feel a TW looks like the
> answer. A friend of mine is also wishing to build one with me if I go
> ahead. There are only a hand full of TW here in Australia and most of them
> are W8s'. I was told there is three W10 under construction in NSW the state
> below Queensland were I live. I am lucky enough to have a W8 hangered 2
> doors away form me at Caboolture (www.cabaeroclub.org.au) which I have flown
> three times and was quite impressed with its performance with the 0-200
> (100hp) in it. Please feel free to check our web site out. Awaiting you
> replies.
> >
> > Ross Leach (Caboolture, Queensland, Australia)
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 |
I only sized the tailfeathers to the W-10 size, but rounded the leading
outer corner to look more W-8 style rather than the sharp corner of the
W-10. I have the counter weight portion just like the W-10, and I balanced
the elevator at the hinge line (with covering). The leading edge of the
horizontal stab, because of the slightly increased size, is ahead of the
place where it normally bolts to the fuselage. I just used a locking
nutplate in the stab and bolt through from inside the fuselage. The
vertical stab and rudder are sized to the same area as the W-10 (slightly
larger than W-8), but again had the rounded leading corner per W-8 style.
You can see pics of my plane on the Unofficial tailwind site under N202Q.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
> DAVE;
> Thanks for your reply.
> How much modification have you done to the tail feathers?
>
> Bill Newkirk
> Fresno
> N13BN (Murphy Rebel)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
>
> >
> > Bill: I have a W-8 (but with W-10 tailfeathers and modified W-10
> controls)
> > that I flew with an O-235 for a year (156 hours) both long cross country
> and
> > local flights. It is a delightful plane to fly. Max speed was about
157
> > MPH, but I think I could have gained a few MPH with a prop with a little
> > less pitch, and perhaps a little cleanup on the airframe here and there.
> My
> > biggest complaint was that at gross (1300#, mty was 800#) and higher
> density
> > altitudes, the takeoff and climb performance was much like a Cessna 150.
> > Again, some prop mods could have improved that some. But I want to be
> able
> > to fly out of Tahoe and places in New Mexico and Colorado on hot days
with
> > two people and baggage and still have fuel to get somewhere. The O-235
> will
> > not give safe performance with those conditions, in my opinion.
> Therefore,
> > I am in the process of converting to a 150 HP O-320. It will fit right
in
> > and the weight is not much more. I am going to add an auxiliary fuel
tank
> > behind the seat, also will help with the W&B.
> >
> > Dave
> > N202Q
> > W-8+
> >
> > >
> > > I appreciated Boud's response to the question of a 320 in a W8. How
> about
> > > an O-235. I have one and have dis-assembled it for rebuilding. I
have
> a
> > > W8/W9 to put it in.
> > >
> > > Bill Newkirk,
> > > Fresno, CA
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Gary,
> > > >
> > > > The W-8 airframe is about 7 inches shorter than a W-10 and it has
less
> > > > horizontal stabilizer area as well as different design horizontal
> > > stabilizer
> > > > incidence. If you assume that your weight and balance will be OK
> (which
> > > it
> > > > won't), the higher speed will cause a higher wing torsion moment on
> the
> > > > airframe which will require a greater balancing force from the
> > horizontal
> > > > stabilizer. This means you will have to reset the leading edge of
the
> > > tail
> > > > down. This will cause greater trim drag, and reduce the amount of
> > > nose-down
> > > > force available for such tings as high angle of attach recovery.
The
> > net
> > > > increase in airspeed will not be what you might expect and you will
> > > > substantialy reduce the stability of the airplane. In certified
> > airplanes
> > > > that went to bigger engines over the years, (like cessna 210 and
Piper
> > > > Comanche) the solution was/is a complicated system of balance
springs
> > and
> > > > bob weights attached to the elevator system; certainly not what you
> want
> > > to
> > > > put in a Tailwind. If you compute the numbers on horsepower only,
> > (forget
> > > > increased weight, cooling drag, trim drag, propeller efficiency,
etc.)
> > the
> > > > expected speed increase from a 150 hp engine would be about 18%, but
> > given
> > > > everything else thats involved, it probably wouldn't even be 10%.
> Also
> > ,
> > > > you would have an airplane that is less stable, feel sluggish on the
> > > > controls (especially in pitch), have less useful load and range,
etc.,
> > > etc.
> > > > See why Steve said, "keep it light"? In my opinion, a W-8 is one of
> the
> > > > best airplanes ever designed for 85-100 hp, keep it that way.
> > > >
> > > > Boud Kuenen
> > > > NX888WT
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Gary Fincher" <backcountry(at)peedeeworld.net>
> > > > To:
> > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing a 0-320.
I
> > was
> > > > told that the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be installed. Is
> > there
> > > > any out there flying? If so what needs to be done? Any replies will
be
> > > > appreciated. Thanks, Gary Fincher
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 |
DAVE;
I don't know what you mean when you say you "balanced the elevator at the
hinge line(with covering)." Please enlighten me.
Thanks,
Bill Newkirk
Fresno CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
> I only sized the tailfeathers to the W-10 size, but rounded the leading
> outer corner to look more W-8 style rather than the sharp corner of the
> W-10. I have the counter weight portion just like the W-10, and I
balanced
> the elevator at the hinge line (with covering). The leading edge of the
> horizontal stab, because of the slightly increased size, is ahead of the
> place where it normally bolts to the fuselage. I just used a locking
> nutplate in the stab and bolt through from inside the fuselage. The
> vertical stab and rudder are sized to the same area as the W-10 (slightly
> larger than W-8), but again had the rounded leading corner per W-8 style.
> You can see pics of my plane on the Unofficial tailwind site under N202Q.
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
>
> >
> > DAVE;
> > Thanks for your reply.
> > How much modification have you done to the tail feathers?
> >
> > Bill Newkirk
> > Fresno
> > N13BN (Murphy Rebel)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Bill: I have a W-8 (but with W-10 tailfeathers and modified W-10
> > controls)
> > > that I flew with an O-235 for a year (156 hours) both long cross
country
> > and
> > > local flights. It is a delightful plane to fly. Max speed was about
> 157
> > > MPH, but I think I could have gained a few MPH with a prop with a
little
> > > less pitch, and perhaps a little cleanup on the airframe here and
there.
> > My
> > > biggest complaint was that at gross (1300#, mty was 800#) and higher
> > density
> > > altitudes, the takeoff and climb performance was much like a Cessna
150.
> > > Again, some prop mods could have improved that some. But I want to be
> > able
> > > to fly out of Tahoe and places in New Mexico and Colorado on hot days
> with
> > > two people and baggage and still have fuel to get somewhere. The
O-235
> > will
> > > not give safe performance with those conditions, in my opinion.
> > Therefore,
> > > I am in the process of converting to a 150 HP O-320. It will fit
right
> in
> > > and the weight is not much more. I am going to add an auxiliary fuel
> tank
> > > behind the seat, also will help with the W&B.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > > N202Q
> > > W-8+
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I appreciated Boud's response to the question of a 320 in a W8. How
> > about
> > > > an O-235. I have one and have dis-assembled it for rebuilding. I
> have
> > a
> > > > W8/W9 to put it in.
> > > >
> > > > Bill Newkirk,
> > > > Fresno, CA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com>
> > > > To:
> > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Gary,
> > > > >
> > > > > The W-8 airframe is about 7 inches shorter than a W-10 and it has
> less
> > > > > horizontal stabilizer area as well as different design horizontal
> > > > stabilizer
> > > > > incidence. If you assume that your weight and balance will be OK
> > (which
> > > > it
> > > > > won't), the higher speed will cause a higher wing torsion moment
on
> > the
> > > > > airframe which will require a greater balancing force from the
> > > horizontal
> > > > > stabilizer. This means you will have to reset the leading edge of
> the
> > > > tail
> > > > > down. This will cause greater trim drag, and reduce the amount of
> > > > nose-down
> > > > > force available for such tings as high angle of attach recovery.
> The
> > > net
> > > > > increase in airspeed will not be what you might expect and you
will
> > > > > substantialy reduce the stability of the airplane. In certified
> > > airplanes
> > > > > that went to bigger engines over the years, (like cessna 210 and
> Piper
> > > > > Comanche) the solution was/is a complicated system of balance
> springs
> > > and
> > > > > bob weights attached to the elevator system; certainly not what
you
> > want
> > > > to
> > > > > put in a Tailwind. If you compute the numbers on horsepower only,
> > > (forget
> > > > > increased weight, cooling drag, trim drag, propeller efficiency,
> etc.)
> > > the
> > > > > expected speed increase from a 150 hp engine would be about 18%,
but
> > > given
> > > > > everything else thats involved, it probably wouldn't even be 10%.
> > Also
> > > ,
> > > > > you would have an airplane that is less stable, feel sluggish on
the
> > > > > controls (especially in pitch), have less useful load and range,
> etc.,
> > > > etc.
> > > > > See why Steve said, "keep it light"? In my opinion, a W-8 is one
of
> > the
> > > > > best airplanes ever designed for 85-100 hp, keep it that way.
> > > > >
> > > > > Boud Kuenen
> > > > > NX888WT
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Gary Fincher" <backcountry(at)peedeeworld.net>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing a
0-320.
> I
> > > was
> > > > > told that the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be installed.
Is
> > > there
> > > > > any out there flying? If so what needs to be done? Any replies
will
> be
> > > > > appreciated. Thanks, Gary Fincher
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 |
The portion of the elevator that is forward of the hinge (I don't know what
it is called specifically--it is the counter tab at the outer end) has lead
in it to balance the elevator with the balance point being the hinge line
(the center of the front elevator tube that has the hinges on it). This is
done taking into account the weight of the fabric and paint, since that will
add more weight to the back portion of the elevator (ie behind the hinge
line). Since I put the lead in before covering, I had taken a swatch of
covering that I had from another plane, weighed it and calculated the area
and thus the weight and moment for the covering of the elevator. Added lead
to the front of the tab to balance. It came out in the end perfectly,
although I could have drilled the lead for fine tuning.
Does this help?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
> DAVE;
> I don't know what you mean when you say you "balanced the elevator at the
> hinge line(with covering)." Please enlighten me.
> Thanks,
> Bill Newkirk
> Fresno CA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
>
> >
> > I only sized the tailfeathers to the W-10 size, but rounded the leading
> > outer corner to look more W-8 style rather than the sharp corner of the
> > W-10. I have the counter weight portion just like the W-10, and I
> balanced
> > the elevator at the hinge line (with covering). The leading edge of the
> > horizontal stab, because of the slightly increased size, is ahead of the
> > place where it normally bolts to the fuselage. I just used a locking
> > nutplate in the stab and bolt through from inside the fuselage. The
> > vertical stab and rudder are sized to the same area as the W-10
(slightly
> > larger than W-8), but again had the rounded leading corner per W-8
style.
> > You can see pics of my plane on the Unofficial tailwind site under
N202Q.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> >
> >
> > >
> > > DAVE;
> > > Thanks for your reply.
> > > How much modification have you done to the tail feathers?
> > >
> > > Bill Newkirk
> > > Fresno
> > > N13BN (Murphy Rebel)
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Bill: I have a W-8 (but with W-10 tailfeathers and modified W-10
> > > controls)
> > > > that I flew with an O-235 for a year (156 hours) both long cross
> country
> > > and
> > > > local flights. It is a delightful plane to fly. Max speed was
about
> > 157
> > > > MPH, but I think I could have gained a few MPH with a prop with a
> little
> > > > less pitch, and perhaps a little cleanup on the airframe here and
> there.
> > > My
> > > > biggest complaint was that at gross (1300#, mty was 800#) and higher
> > > density
> > > > altitudes, the takeoff and climb performance was much like a Cessna
> 150.
> > > > Again, some prop mods could have improved that some. But I want to
be
> > > able
> > > > to fly out of Tahoe and places in New Mexico and Colorado on hot
days
> > with
> > > > two people and baggage and still have fuel to get somewhere. The
> O-235
> > > will
> > > > not give safe performance with those conditions, in my opinion.
> > > Therefore,
> > > > I am in the process of converting to a 150 HP O-320. It will fit
> right
> > in
> > > > and the weight is not much more. I am going to add an auxiliary
fuel
> > tank
> > > > behind the seat, also will help with the W&B.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > > N202Q
> > > > W-8+
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I appreciated Boud's response to the question of a 320 in a W8.
How
> > > about
> > > > > an O-235. I have one and have dis-assembled it for rebuilding. I
> > have
> > > a
> > > > > W8/W9 to put it in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill Newkirk,
> > > > > Fresno, CA
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gary,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The W-8 airframe is about 7 inches shorter than a W-10 and it
has
> > less
> > > > > > horizontal stabilizer area as well as different design
horizontal
> > > > > stabilizer
> > > > > > incidence. If you assume that your weight and balance will be
OK
> > > (which
> > > > > it
> > > > > > won't), the higher speed will cause a higher wing torsion moment
> on
> > > the
> > > > > > airframe which will require a greater balancing force from the
> > > > horizontal
> > > > > > stabilizer. This means you will have to reset the leading edge
of
> > the
> > > > > tail
> > > > > > down. This will cause greater trim drag, and reduce the amount
of
> > > > > nose-down
> > > > > > force available for such tings as high angle of attach recovery.
> > The
> > > > net
> > > > > > increase in airspeed will not be what you might expect and you
> will
> > > > > > substantialy reduce the stability of the airplane. In certified
> > > > airplanes
> > > > > > that went to bigger engines over the years, (like cessna 210 and
> > Piper
> > > > > > Comanche) the solution was/is a complicated system of balance
> > springs
> > > > and
> > > > > > bob weights attached to the elevator system; certainly not what
> you
> > > want
> > > > > to
> > > > > > put in a Tailwind. If you compute the numbers on horsepower
only,
> > > > (forget
> > > > > > increased weight, cooling drag, trim drag, propeller efficiency,
> > etc.)
> > > > the
> > > > > > expected speed increase from a 150 hp engine would be about 18%,
> but
> > > > given
> > > > > > everything else thats involved, it probably wouldn't even be
10%.
> > > Also
> > > > ,
> > > > > > you would have an airplane that is less stable, feel sluggish on
> the
> > > > > > controls (especially in pitch), have less useful load and range,
> > etc.,
> > > > > etc.
> > > > > > See why Steve said, "keep it light"? In my opinion, a W-8 is
one
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > best airplanes ever designed for 85-100 hp, keep it that way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Boud Kuenen
> > > > > > NX888WT
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Gary Fincher" <backcountry(at)peedeeworld.net>
> > > > > > To:
> > > > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing a
> 0-320.
> > I
> > > > was
> > > > > > told that the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be installed.
> Is
> > > > there
> > > > > > any out there flying? If so what needs to be done? Any replies
> will
> > be
> > > > > > appreciated. Thanks, Gary Fincher
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 |
Thanks, Dave.
Bill Newkirk
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
> The portion of the elevator that is forward of the hinge (I don't know
what
> it is called specifically--it is the counter tab at the outer end) has
lead
> in it to balance the elevator with the balance point being the hinge line
> (the center of the front elevator tube that has the hinges on it). This
is
> done taking into account the weight of the fabric and paint, since that
will
> add more weight to the back portion of the elevator (ie behind the hinge
> line). Since I put the lead in before covering, I had taken a swatch of
> covering that I had from another plane, weighed it and calculated the area
> and thus the weight and moment for the covering of the elevator. Added
lead
> to the front of the tab to balance. It came out in the end perfectly,
> although I could have drilled the lead for fine tuning.
>
> Does this help?
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
>
> >
> > DAVE;
> > I don't know what you mean when you say you "balanced the elevator at
the
> > hinge line(with covering)." Please enlighten me.
> > Thanks,
> > Bill Newkirk
> > Fresno CA
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I only sized the tailfeathers to the W-10 size, but rounded the
leading
> > > outer corner to look more W-8 style rather than the sharp corner of
the
> > > W-10. I have the counter weight portion just like the W-10, and I
> > balanced
> > > the elevator at the hinge line (with covering). The leading edge of
the
> > > horizontal stab, because of the slightly increased size, is ahead of
the
> > > place where it normally bolts to the fuselage. I just used a locking
> > > nutplate in the stab and bolt through from inside the fuselage. The
> > > vertical stab and rudder are sized to the same area as the W-10
> (slightly
> > > larger than W-8), but again had the rounded leading corner per W-8
> style.
> > > You can see pics of my plane on the Unofficial tailwind site under
> N202Q.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> > >
> > >
>
> > > >
> > > > DAVE;
> > > > Thanks for your reply.
> > > > How much modification have you done to the tail feathers?
> > > >
> > > > Bill Newkirk
> > > > Fresno
> > > > N13BN (Murphy Rebel)
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> > > > To:
> > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill: I have a W-8 (but with W-10 tailfeathers and modified W-10
> > > > controls)
> > > > > that I flew with an O-235 for a year (156 hours) both long cross
> > country
> > > > and
> > > > > local flights. It is a delightful plane to fly. Max speed was
> about
> > > 157
> > > > > MPH, but I think I could have gained a few MPH with a prop with a
> > little
> > > > > less pitch, and perhaps a little cleanup on the airframe here and
> > there.
> > > > My
> > > > > biggest complaint was that at gross (1300#, mty was 800#) and
higher
> > > > density
> > > > > altitudes, the takeoff and climb performance was much like a
Cessna
> > 150.
> > > > > Again, some prop mods could have improved that some. But I want
to
> be
> > > > able
> > > > > to fly out of Tahoe and places in New Mexico and Colorado on hot
> days
> > > with
> > > > > two people and baggage and still have fuel to get somewhere. The
> > O-235
> > > > will
> > > > > not give safe performance with those conditions, in my opinion.
> > > > Therefore,
> > > > > I am in the process of converting to a 150 HP O-320. It will fit
> > right
> > > in
> > > > > and the weight is not much more. I am going to add an auxiliary
> fuel
> > > tank
> > > > > behind the seat, also will help with the W&B.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > > N202Q
> > > > > W-8+
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I appreciated Boud's response to the question of a 320 in a W8.
> How
> > > > about
> > > > > > an O-235. I have one and have dis-assembled it for rebuilding.
I
> > > have
> > > > a
> > > > > > W8/W9 to put it in.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill Newkirk,
> > > > > > Fresno, CA
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com>
> > > > > > To:
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gary,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The W-8 airframe is about 7 inches shorter than a W-10 and it
> has
> > > less
> > > > > > > horizontal stabilizer area as well as different design
> horizontal
> > > > > > stabilizer
> > > > > > > incidence. If you assume that your weight and balance will be
> OK
> > > > (which
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > won't), the higher speed will cause a higher wing torsion
moment
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > > > airframe which will require a greater balancing force from the
> > > > > horizontal
> > > > > > > stabilizer. This means you will have to reset the leading
edge
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > tail
> > > > > > > down. This will cause greater trim drag, and reduce the
amount
> of
> > > > > > nose-down
> > > > > > > force available for such tings as high angle of attach
recovery.
> > > The
> > > > > net
> > > > > > > increase in airspeed will not be what you might expect and you
> > will
> > > > > > > substantialy reduce the stability of the airplane. In
certified
> > > > > airplanes
> > > > > > > that went to bigger engines over the years, (like cessna 210
and
> > > Piper
> > > > > > > Comanche) the solution was/is a complicated system of balance
> > > springs
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > bob weights attached to the elevator system; certainly not
what
> > you
> > > > want
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > put in a Tailwind. If you compute the numbers on horsepower
> only,
> > > > > (forget
> > > > > > > increased weight, cooling drag, trim drag, propeller
efficiency,
> > > etc.)
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > expected speed increase from a 150 hp engine would be about
18%,
> > but
> > > > > given
> > > > > > > everything else thats involved, it probably wouldn't even be
> 10%.
> > > > Also
> > > > > ,
> > > > > > > you would have an airplane that is less stable, feel sluggish
on
> > the
> > > > > > > controls (especially in pitch), have less useful load and
range,
> > > etc.,
> > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > See why Steve said, "keep it light"? In my opinion, a W-8 is
> one
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > best airplanes ever designed for 85-100 hp, keep it that way.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Boud Kuenen
> > > > > > > NX888WT
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Gary Fincher" <backcountry(at)peedeeworld.net>
> > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing a
> > 0-320.
> > > I
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > told that the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be
installed.
> > Is
> > > > > there
> > > > > > > any out there flying? If so what needs to be done? Any replies
> > will
> > > be
> > > > > > > appreciated. Thanks, Gary Fincher
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
> Thanks, Dave.
>
> Bill Newkirk
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
>
> >
> > The portion of the elevator that is forward of the hinge (I don't know
> what
> > it is called specifically--it is the counter tab at the outer end) has
> lead
> > in it to balance the elevator with the balance point being the hinge
line
> > (the center of the front elevator tube that has the hinges on it). This
> is
> > done taking into account the weight of the fabric and paint, since that
> will
> > add more weight to the back portion of the elevator (ie behind the hinge
> > line). Since I put the lead in before covering, I had taken a swatch of
> > covering that I had from another plane, weighed it and calculated the
area
> > and thus the weight and moment for the covering of the elevator. Added
> lead
> > to the front of the tab to balance. It came out in the end perfectly,
> > although I could have drilled the lead for fine tuning.
> >
> > Does this help?
> > Dave
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> >
> >
> > >
> > > DAVE;
> > > I don't know what you mean when you say you "balanced the elevator at
> the
> > > hinge line(with covering)." Please enlighten me.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Bill Newkirk
> > > Fresno CA
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I only sized the tailfeathers to the W-10 size, but rounded the
> leading
> > > > outer corner to look more W-8 style rather than the sharp corner of
> the
> > > > W-10. I have the counter weight portion just like the W-10, and I
> > > balanced
> > > > the elevator at the hinge line (with covering). The leading edge of
> the
> > > > horizontal stab, because of the slightly increased size, is ahead of
> the
> > > > place where it normally bolts to the fuselage. I just used a
locking
> > > > nutplate in the stab and bolt through from inside the fuselage. The
> > > > vertical stab and rudder are sized to the same area as the W-10
> > (slightly
> > > > larger than W-8), but again had the rounded leading corner per W-8
> > style.
> > > > You can see pics of my plane on the Unofficial tailwind site under
> > N202Q.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
> > > > To:
> > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >
> > > > > DAVE;
> > > > > Thanks for your reply.
> > > > > How much modification have you done to the tail feathers?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill Newkirk
> > > > > Fresno
> > > > > N13BN (Murphy Rebel)
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> > > > >
> > > > >
>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill: I have a W-8 (but with W-10 tailfeathers and modified
W-10
> > > > > controls)
> > > > > > that I flew with an O-235 for a year (156 hours) both long cross
> > > country
> > > > > and
> > > > > > local flights. It is a delightful plane to fly. Max speed was
> > about
> > > > 157
> > > > > > MPH, but I think I could have gained a few MPH with a prop with
a
> > > little
> > > > > > less pitch, and perhaps a little cleanup on the airframe here
and
> > > there.
> > > > > My
> > > > > > biggest complaint was that at gross (1300#, mty was 800#) and
> higher
> > > > > density
> > > > > > altitudes, the takeoff and climb performance was much like a
> Cessna
> > > 150.
> > > > > > Again, some prop mods could have improved that some. But I want
> to
> > be
> > > > > able
> > > > > > to fly out of Tahoe and places in New Mexico and Colorado on hot
> > days
> > > > with
> > > > > > two people and baggage and still have fuel to get somewhere.
The
> > > O-235
> > > > > will
> > > > > > not give safe performance with those conditions, in my opinion.
> > > > > Therefore,
> > > > > > I am in the process of converting to a 150 HP O-320. It will
fit
> > > right
> > > > in
> > > > > > and the weight is not much more. I am going to add an auxiliary
> > fuel
> > > > tank
> > > > > > behind the seat, also will help with the W&B.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dave
> > > > > > N202Q
> > > > > > W-8+
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I appreciated Boud's response to the question of a 320 in a
W8.
> > How
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > an O-235. I have one and have dis-assembled it for
rebuilding.
> I
> > > > have
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > W8/W9 to put it in.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill Newkirk,
> > > > > > > Fresno, CA
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com>
> > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Gary,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The W-8 airframe is about 7 inches shorter than a W-10 and
it
> > has
> > > > less
> > > > > > > > horizontal stabilizer area as well as different design
> > horizontal
> > > > > > > stabilizer
> > > > > > > > incidence. If you assume that your weight and balance will
be
> > OK
> > > > > (which
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > won't), the higher speed will cause a higher wing torsion
> moment
> > > on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > airframe which will require a greater balancing force from
the
> > > > > > horizontal
> > > > > > > > stabilizer. This means you will have to reset the leading
> edge
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > tail
> > > > > > > > down. This will cause greater trim drag, and reduce the
> amount
> > of
> > > > > > > nose-down
> > > > > > > > force available for such tings as high angle of attach
> recovery.
> > > > The
> > > > > > net
> > > > > > > > increase in airspeed will not be what you might expect and
you
> > > will
> > > > > > > > substantialy reduce the stability of the airplane. In
> certified
> > > > > > airplanes
> > > > > > > > that went to bigger engines over the years, (like cessna 210
> and
> > > > Piper
> > > > > > > > Comanche) the solution was/is a complicated system of
balance
> > > > springs
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > bob weights attached to the elevator system; certainly not
> what
> > > you
> > > > > want
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > put in a Tailwind. If you compute the numbers on horsepower
> > only,
> > > > > > (forget
> > > > > > > > increased weight, cooling drag, trim drag, propeller
> efficiency,
> > > > etc.)
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > expected speed increase from a 150 hp engine would be about
> 18%,
> > > but
> > > > > > given
> > > > > > > > everything else thats involved, it probably wouldn't even be
> > 10%.
> > > > > Also
> > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > > you would have an airplane that is less stable, feel
sluggish
> on
> > > the
> > > > > > > > controls (especially in pitch), have less useful load and
> range,
> > > > etc.,
> > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > See why Steve said, "keep it light"? In my opinion, a W-8
is
> > one
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > best airplanes ever designed for 85-100 hp, keep it that
way.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Boud Kuenen
> > > > > > > > NX888WT
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Gary Fincher" <backcountry(at)peedeeworld.net>
> > > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing a
> > > 0-320.
> > > > I
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > told that the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be
> installed.
> > > Is
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > any out there flying? If so what needs to be done? Any
replies
> > > will
> > > > be
> > > > > > > > appreciated. Thanks, Gary Fincher
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 |
About the elevator balance....................... This is not a static
balance with weight installed , it is an aerodynamic balance which takes the
load off the stick forces and counters any modes of flutter. Wittman never
put any weight in it .
Earl Luce
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
> Thanks, Dave.
>
> Bill Newkirk
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
>
> >
> > The portion of the elevator that is forward of the hinge (I don't know
> what
> > it is called specifically--it is the counter tab at the outer end) has
> lead
> > in it to balance the elevator with the balance point being the hinge
line
> > (the center of the front elevator tube that has the hinges on it). This
> is
> > done taking into account the weight of the fabric and paint, since that
> will
> > add more weight to the back portion of the elevator (ie behind the hinge
> > line). Since I put the lead in before covering, I had taken a swatch of
> > covering that I had from another plane, weighed it and calculated the
area
> > and thus the weight and moment for the covering of the elevator. Added
> lead
> > to the front of the tab to balance. It came out in the end perfectly,
> > although I could have drilled the lead for fine tuning.
> >
> > Does this help?
> > Dave
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> >
> >
> > >
> > > DAVE;
> > > I don't know what you mean when you say you "balanced the elevator at
> the
> > > hinge line(with covering)." Please enlighten me.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Bill Newkirk
> > > Fresno CA
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I only sized the tailfeathers to the W-10 size, but rounded the
> leading
> > > > outer corner to look more W-8 style rather than the sharp corner of
> the
> > > > W-10. I have the counter weight portion just like the W-10, and I
> > > balanced
> > > > the elevator at the hinge line (with covering). The leading edge of
> the
> > > > horizontal stab, because of the slightly increased size, is ahead of
> the
> > > > place where it normally bolts to the fuselage. I just used a
locking
> > > > nutplate in the stab and bolt through from inside the fuselage. The
> > > > vertical stab and rudder are sized to the same area as the W-10
> > (slightly
> > > > larger than W-8), but again had the rounded leading corner per W-8
> > style.
> > > > You can see pics of my plane on the Unofficial tailwind site under
> > N202Q.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
> > > > To:
> > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >
> > > > > DAVE;
> > > > > Thanks for your reply.
> > > > > How much modification have you done to the tail feathers?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill Newkirk
> > > > > Fresno
> > > > > N13BN (Murphy Rebel)
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> > > > >
> > > > >
>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill: I have a W-8 (but with W-10 tailfeathers and modified
W-10
> > > > > controls)
> > > > > > that I flew with an O-235 for a year (156 hours) both long cross
> > > country
> > > > > and
> > > > > > local flights. It is a delightful plane to fly. Max speed was
> > about
> > > > 157
> > > > > > MPH, but I think I could have gained a few MPH with a prop with
a
> > > little
> > > > > > less pitch, and perhaps a little cleanup on the airframe here
and
> > > there.
> > > > > My
> > > > > > biggest complaint was that at gross (1300#, mty was 800#) and
> higher
> > > > > density
> > > > > > altitudes, the takeoff and climb performance was much like a
> Cessna
> > > 150.
> > > > > > Again, some prop mods could have improved that some. But I want
> to
> > be
> > > > > able
> > > > > > to fly out of Tahoe and places in New Mexico and Colorado on hot
> > days
> > > > with
> > > > > > two people and baggage and still have fuel to get somewhere.
The
> > > O-235
> > > > > will
> > > > > > not give safe performance with those conditions, in my opinion.
> > > > > Therefore,
> > > > > > I am in the process of converting to a 150 HP O-320. It will
fit
> > > right
> > > > in
> > > > > > and the weight is not much more. I am going to add an auxiliary
> > fuel
> > > > tank
> > > > > > behind the seat, also will help with the W&B.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dave
> > > > > > N202Q
> > > > > > W-8+
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I appreciated Boud's response to the question of a 320 in a
W8.
> > How
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > an O-235. I have one and have dis-assembled it for
rebuilding.
> I
> > > > have
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > W8/W9 to put it in.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill Newkirk,
> > > > > > > Fresno, CA
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com>
> > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Gary,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The W-8 airframe is about 7 inches shorter than a W-10 and
it
> > has
> > > > less
> > > > > > > > horizontal stabilizer area as well as different design
> > horizontal
> > > > > > > stabilizer
> > > > > > > > incidence. If you assume that your weight and balance will
be
> > OK
> > > > > (which
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > won't), the higher speed will cause a higher wing torsion
> moment
> > > on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > airframe which will require a greater balancing force from
the
> > > > > > horizontal
> > > > > > > > stabilizer. This means you will have to reset the leading
> edge
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > tail
> > > > > > > > down. This will cause greater trim drag, and reduce the
> amount
> > of
> > > > > > > nose-down
> > > > > > > > force available for such tings as high angle of attach
> recovery.
> > > > The
> > > > > > net
> > > > > > > > increase in airspeed will not be what you might expect and
you
> > > will
> > > > > > > > substantialy reduce the stability of the airplane. In
> certified
> > > > > > airplanes
> > > > > > > > that went to bigger engines over the years, (like cessna 210
> and
> > > > Piper
> > > > > > > > Comanche) the solution was/is a complicated system of
balance
> > > > springs
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > bob weights attached to the elevator system; certainly not
> what
> > > you
> > > > > want
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > put in a Tailwind. If you compute the numbers on horsepower
> > only,
> > > > > > (forget
> > > > > > > > increased weight, cooling drag, trim drag, propeller
> efficiency,
> > > > etc.)
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > expected speed increase from a 150 hp engine would be about
> 18%,
> > > but
> > > > > > given
> > > > > > > > everything else thats involved, it probably wouldn't even be
> > 10%.
> > > > > Also
> > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > > you would have an airplane that is less stable, feel
sluggish
> on
> > > the
> > > > > > > > controls (especially in pitch), have less useful load and
> range,
> > > > etc.,
> > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > See why Steve said, "keep it light"? In my opinion, a W-8
is
> > one
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > best airplanes ever designed for 85-100 hp, keep it that
way.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Boud Kuenen
> > > > > > > > NX888WT
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Gary Fincher" <backcountry(at)peedeeworld.net>
> > > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing a
> > > 0-320.
> > > > I
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > told that the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be
> installed.
> > > Is
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > any out there flying? If so what needs to be done? Any
replies
> > > will
> > > > be
> > > > > > > > appreciated. Thanks, Gary Fincher
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailwind-Elev balance stuff |
| From: | Fred Weaver <Mytyweav(at)flash.net> |
Earl.... Putting a little weight in it to static balance it is not a
bad thing. Just makes a good thing a little better. Especially if you
intend to push the throttle forward.....
:) Weav
On Saturday, January 25, 2003, at 11:37 AM, Earl Luce wrote:
>
>
> About the elevator balance....................... This is not a static
> balance with weight installed , it is an aerodynamic balance which
> takes the
> load off the stick forces and counters any modes of flutter. Wittman
> never
> put any weight in it .
> Earl Luce
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Dave.
>>
>> Bill Newkirk
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>>
>>
>>>
>>> The portion of the elevator that is forward of the hinge (I don't know
>> what
>>> it is called specifically--it is the counter tab at the outer end) has
>> lead
>>> in it to balance the elevator with the balance point being the hinge
> line
>>> (the center of the front elevator tube that has the hinges on it).
>>> This
>> is
>>> done taking into account the weight of the fabric and paint, since
>>> that
>> will
>>> add more weight to the back portion of the elevator (ie behind the
>>> hinge
>>> line). Since I put the lead in before covering, I had taken a swatch
>>> of
>>> covering that I had from another plane, weighed it and calculated the
> area
>>> and thus the weight and moment for the covering of the elevator.
>>> Added
>> lead
>>> to the front of the tab to balance. It came out in the end perfectly,
>>> although I could have drilled the lead for fine tuning.
>>>
>>> Does this help?
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
>>> To:
>>> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>>>
>>>
>
>>>>
>>>> DAVE;
>>>> I don't know what you mean when you say you "balanced the elevator at
>> the
>>>> hinge line(with covering)." Please enlighten me.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Bill Newkirk
>>>> Fresno CA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
>>>> To:
>>>> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I only sized the tailfeathers to the W-10 size, but rounded the
>> leading
>>>>> outer corner to look more W-8 style rather than the sharp corner of
>> the
>>>>> W-10. I have the counter weight portion just like the W-10, and I
>>>> balanced
>>>>> the elevator at the hinge line (with covering). The leading edge of
>> the
>>>>> horizontal stab, because of the slightly increased size, is ahead of
>> the
>>>>> place where it normally bolts to the fuselage. I just used a
> locking
>>>>> nutplate in the stab and bolt through from inside the fuselage. The
>>>>> vertical stab and rudder are sized to the same area as the W-10
>>> (slightly
>>>>> larger than W-8), but again had the rounded leading corner per W-8
>>> style.
>>>>> You can see pics of my plane on the Unofficial tailwind site under
>>> N202Q.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
>>>>> To:
>>>>> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DAVE;
>>>>>> Thanks for your reply.
>>>>>> How much modification have you done to the tail feathers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Newkirk
>>>>>> Fresno
>>>>>> N13BN (Murphy Rebel)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
>>>>>> To:
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill: I have a W-8 (but with W-10 tailfeathers and modified
> W-10
>>>>>> controls)
>>>>>>> that I flew with an O-235 for a year (156 hours) both long cross
>>>> country
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> local flights. It is a delightful plane to fly. Max speed was
>>> about
>>>>> 157
>>>>>>> MPH, but I think I could have gained a few MPH with a prop with
> a
>>>> little
>>>>>>> less pitch, and perhaps a little cleanup on the airframe here
> and
>>>> there.
>>>>>> My
>>>>>>> biggest complaint was that at gross (1300#, mty was 800#) and
>> higher
>>>>>> density
>>>>>>> altitudes, the takeoff and climb performance was much like a
>> Cessna
>>>> 150.
>>>>>>> Again, some prop mods could have improved that some. But I want
>> to
>>> be
>>>>>> able
>>>>>>> to fly out of Tahoe and places in New Mexico and Colorado on hot
>>> days
>>>>> with
>>>>>>> two people and baggage and still have fuel to get somewhere.
> The
>>>> O-235
>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> not give safe performance with those conditions, in my opinion.
>>>>>> Therefore,
>>>>>>> I am in the process of converting to a 150 HP O-320. It will
> fit
>>>> right
>>>>> in
>>>>>>> and the weight is not much more. I am going to add an auxiliary
>>> fuel
>>>>> tank
>>>>>>> behind the seat, also will help with the W&B.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>> N202Q
>>>>>>> W-8+
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I appreciated Boud's response to the question of a 320 in a
> W8.
>>> How
>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> an O-235. I have one and have dis-assembled it for
> rebuilding.
>> I
>>>>> have
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> W8/W9 to put it in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill Newkirk,
>>>>>>>> Fresno, CA
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com>
>>>>>>>> To:
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Gary,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The W-8 airframe is about 7 inches shorter than a W-10 and
> it
>>> has
>>>>> less
>>>>>>>>> horizontal stabilizer area as well as different design
>>> horizontal
>>>>>>>> stabilizer
>>>>>>>>> incidence. If you assume that your weight and balance will
> be
>>> OK
>>>>>> (which
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> won't), the higher speed will cause a higher wing torsion
>> moment
>>>> on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> airframe which will require a greater balancing force from
> the
>>>>>>> horizontal
>>>>>>>>> stabilizer. This means you will have to reset the leading
>> edge
>>> of
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> tail
>>>>>>>>> down. This will cause greater trim drag, and reduce the
>> amount
>>> of
>>>>>>>> nose-down
>>>>>>>>> force available for such tings as high angle of attach
>> recovery.
>>>>> The
>>>>>>> net
>>>>>>>>> increase in airspeed will not be what you might expect and
> you
>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> substantialy reduce the stability of the airplane. In
>> certified
>>>>>>> airplanes
>>>>>>>>> that went to bigger engines over the years, (like cessna 210
>> and
>>>>> Piper
>>>>>>>>> Comanche) the solution was/is a complicated system of
> balance
>>>>> springs
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> bob weights attached to the elevator system; certainly not
>> what
>>>> you
>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> put in a Tailwind. If you compute the numbers on horsepower
>>> only,
>>>>>>> (forget
>>>>>>>>> increased weight, cooling drag, trim drag, propeller
>> efficiency,
>>>>> etc.)
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> expected speed increase from a 150 hp engine would be about
>> 18%,
>>>> but
>>>>>>> given
>>>>>>>>> everything else thats involved, it probably wouldn't even be
>>> 10%.
>>>>>> Also
>>>>>>> ,
>>>>>>>>> you would have an airplane that is less stable, feel
> sluggish
>> on
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> controls (especially in pitch), have less useful load and
>> range,
>>>>> etc.,
>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>> See why Steve said, "keep it light"? In my opinion, a W-8
> is
>>> one
>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> best airplanes ever designed for 85-100 hp, keep it that
> way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Boud Kuenen
>>>>>>>>> NX888WT
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Gary Fincher" <backcountry(at)peedeeworld.net>
>>>>>>>>> To:
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing a
>>>> 0-320.
>>>>> I
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> told that the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be
>> installed.
>>>> Is
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> any out there flying? If so what needs to be done? Any
> replies
>>>> will
>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> appreciated. Thanks, Gary Fincher
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick and Cindy <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net> |
I got word from SAA prez Paul Poberezny that he needs to know if there
will be a Tailwind forum at the Urbana IL SAA gathering on 6-13 thru 15
'03, and he needs to know within a week so he can publish it in the
spring '03 issue of "To Fly".
We need a volunteer or two and a back up. Any takers? I did it last
year, it was fun! Also, give your forum a name if you can. Last year we
simply called it a "Tailwind question and answer period".
Let us know as soon as you can if you want to do this for the Tailwind.
Rick
N241SW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flamini2" <flamini2(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SAA Urbana '03 |
Rick,
i plan on being there and could serve.
Dennis Flamini N564DF
564 Aberdeen
Frankfort, IL 60423
815-464-1869
cell 815-693-2615
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: SAA Urbana '03
>
> I got word from SAA prez Paul Poberezny that he needs to know if there
> will be a Tailwind forum at the Urbana IL SAA gathering on 6-13 thru 15
> '03, and he needs to know within a week so he can publish it in the
> spring '03 issue of "To Fly".
> We need a volunteer or two and a back up. Any takers? I did it last
> year, it was fun! Also, give your forum a name if you can. Last year we
> simply called it a "Tailwind question and answer period".
> Let us know as soon as you can if you want to do this for the Tailwind.
> Rick
> N241SW
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick and Cindy <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SAA Urbana '03 |
Dennis: Thanks, What would you like to title the forum for this year?
Rick
N241SW
flamini2 wrote:
>
> Rick,
> i plan on being there and could serve.
> Dennis Flamini N564DF
> 564 Aberdeen
> Frankfort, IL 60423
> 815-464-1869
> cell 815-693-2615
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
> To: "Tailwind discussion group"
> Subject: Tailwind-List: SAA Urbana '03
>
> >
> > I got word from SAA prez Paul Poberezny that he needs to know if there
> > will be a Tailwind forum at the Urbana IL SAA gathering on 6-13 thru 15
> > '03, and he needs to know within a week so he can publish it in the
> > spring '03 issue of "To Fly".
> > We need a volunteer or two and a back up. Any takers? I did it last
> > year, it was fun! Also, give your forum a name if you can. Last year we
> > simply called it a "Tailwind question and answer period".
> > Let us know as soon as you can if you want to do this for the Tailwind.
> > Rick
> > N241SW
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x(at)merr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SAA Urbana '03 |
Rick, count me in as well . At least three other TWs from up here will be
there. Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: SAA Urbana '03
>
> I got word from SAA prez Paul Poberezny that he needs to know if there
> will be a Tailwind forum at the Urbana IL SAA gathering on 6-13 thru 15
> '03, and he needs to know within a week so he can publish it in the
> spring '03 issue of "To Fly".
> We need a volunteer or two and a back up. Any takers? I did it last
> year, it was fun! Also, give your forum a name if you can. Last year we
> simply called it a "Tailwind question and answer period".
> Let us know as soon as you can if you want to do this for the Tailwind.
> Rick
> N241SW
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flamini2" <flamini2(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SAA Urbana '03 |
Good to see JC on board for SSA at Urbana, how about
"Old Eagles Tailwind rides and short meeting"
for a forum name. What do you think Jim?
i will do the rides and you can tell them how to make one!!!
Dennis Flamini N564DF race#53 Chicago
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: SAA Urbana '03
>
> Dennis: Thanks, What would you like to title the forum for this year?
> Rick
> N241SW
>
> flamini2 wrote:
>
> >
> > Rick,
> > i plan on being there and could serve.
> > Dennis Flamini N564DF
> > 564 Aberdeen
> > Frankfort, IL 60423
> > 815-464-1869
> > cell 815-693-2615
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
> > To: "Tailwind discussion group"
> > Subject: Tailwind-List: SAA Urbana '03
> >
> > >
> > > I got word from SAA prez Paul Poberezny that he needs to know if there
> > > will be a Tailwind forum at the Urbana IL SAA gathering on 6-13 thru
15
> > > '03, and he needs to know within a week so he can publish it in the
> > > spring '03 issue of "To Fly".
> > > We need a volunteer or two and a back up. Any takers? I did it last
> > > year, it was fun! Also, give your forum a name if you can. Last year
we
> > > simply called it a "Tailwind question and answer period".
> > > Let us know as soon as you can if you want to do this for the
Tailwind.
> > > Rick
> > > N241SW
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick and Cindy <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SAA Urbana '03 |
Dennis and Jim: Thanks for stepping up to the plate, Dennis will organize rides
in the Tailwind (mine will be available if needed) and Jim will take charge of
answering questions. Dennis, would you please prepare a few opening remarks and
take charge of getting the show going. Thanks again, guys, I know we all enjoyed
last years forum and this year sounds like even better.
The name for the forum will be "Old Eagles, 50th anniversary of the Tailwind".
Rick
N241SW
flamini2 wrote:
>
> Good to see JC on board for SSA at Urbana, how about
> "Old Eagles Tailwind rides and short meeting"
> for a forum name. What do you think Jim?
> i will do the rides and you can tell them how to make one!!!
> Dennis Flamini N564DF race#53 Chicago
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: SAA Urbana '03
>
> >
> > Dennis: Thanks, What would you like to title the forum for this year?
> > Rick
> > N241SW
> >
> > flamini2 wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Rick,
> > > i plan on being there and could serve.
> > > Dennis Flamini N564DF
> > > 564 Aberdeen
> > > Frankfort, IL 60423
> > > 815-464-1869
> > > cell 815-693-2615
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
> > > To: "Tailwind discussion group"
> > > Subject: Tailwind-List: SAA Urbana '03
> > >
>
> > > >
> > > > I got word from SAA prez Paul Poberezny that he needs to know if there
> > > > will be a Tailwind forum at the Urbana IL SAA gathering on 6-13 thru
> 15
> > > > '03, and he needs to know within a week so he can publish it in the
> > > > spring '03 issue of "To Fly".
> > > > We need a volunteer or two and a back up. Any takers? I did it last
> > > > year, it was fun! Also, give your forum a name if you can. Last year
> we
> > > > simply called it a "Tailwind question and answer period".
> > > > Let us know as soon as you can if you want to do this for the
> Tailwind.
> > > > Rick
> > > > N241SW
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick and Cindy <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net> |
| Subject: | [Fwd: [Fwd: [TailwindForum] O-O update]] |
Attached is copy of message to Paul P. regarding the Tailwind forum at
SAA '03. Dennis, I'll need your US mail address as Wes Schmidt will want
to get in touch with the people putting on the forum. I already have
yours, Jim.
Dennis' idea to offer rides is absolutely great! Any of us who are
planning to be there with Tailwinds please let him know if you're
willing to help with giving rides. He's probably going to need it as I
suspect the line will be long!!
Rick
N241SW
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 19:44:07 -0500
From: Rick and Cindy <rcaviate(at)ne.infi.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [TailwindForum] O-O update]
My friend Paul: Dennis Flamini and Jim Clement will be in charge of the
Tailwind forum at SAA '03. Dennis will give opening remarks and Jim will
answer questions. Also, in honor of the Tailwinds 50th anniversary,
we'll be giving rides to interested SAAers, Dennis will be in charge of
this activity. I'm sure there will be several Tailwinders willing to
participate.
The name of the forum will be "Old Eagles, 50th anniversary of the
Tailwind".
I'll get Dennis' and Jim's mailing address so Wes can get in touch with
them.
Many thanks for the fine job you and your staff are doing with the SAA.
Rick Crosslin
SAA 877
Wittman Tailwind N393RC
O-O II N241SW
EAARedOne(at)aol.com wrote:
> Rick,
>
> Thanks for the update - sounds like you are moving right along. I
> could now view the photos - got the mesage that file was too large for
> AOL. Maybe you could send me some "real" photos when you have time.
> Attending Sun ' n Fun sounds like a great idea. We'll be there.
>
> Also, do you plan on a forum for the Urbana get together? We would
> have to know within a week or so, so that we can publish it in the
> next issue of TO FLY which will be going in the mail the second week
> of February.
>
> Look forward to hearing from you.
>
> Paul
My friend Paul: Dennis Flamini and Jim Clement will be in charge of the
Tailwind forum at SAA '03. Dennis will give opening remarks and Jim will
answer questions. Also, in honor of the Tailwinds 50th anniversary, we'll
be giving rides to interested SAAers, Dennis will be in charge of this
activity. I'm sure there will be several Tailwinders willing to participate.
The name of the forum will be "Old Eagles, 50th anniversary of the
Tailwind".
I'll get Dennis' and Jim's mailing address so Wes can get in touch
with them.
Many thanks for the fine job you and your staff are doing with the
SAA.
Rick Crosslin
SAA 877
Wittman Tailwind N393RC
O-O II N241SW
EAARedOne(at)aol.com wrote:
Rick,
Thanks for the update - sounds
like you are moving right along. I could now view the photos - got
the mesage that file was too large for AOL. Maybe you could send
me some "real" photos when you have time. Attending Sun ' n Fun sounds
like a great idea. We'll be there.
Also, do you plan on a forum
for the Urbana get together? We would have to know within a week or so,
so that we can publish it in the next issue of TO FLY which will be going
in the mail the second week of February.
Look forward to hearing from
you.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Stroud" <davestroud(at)rogers.com> |
Giday Lads. I've been lurking on the list for a few months, having some interest
in the Tailwind or
perhaps some derivitve thereof for a next project. I'm a friend of Jack Steele
of Brockville, Canada
who has been flying his Tailwind over 20 years now.
We ( girlfriend and I ) attend Sun N Fun each year and camp in our trailer in one
of the main public
campgrounds. Last year we hosted an evening BBQ at our trailer and had 56 attendees.
BBQ Pork
sandwiches, cole slaw, potato salad and as many beverages of your choice, all for
a donation.
We had quite a mix of backgrounds and interests among the attendees including Tailwinds,
Davis',
Christavias, Auto conversion xperts, turbo people, Subaru people, kit builders,
composite types,
expert welders and in fact, experts in general and most anything inbetween....
We started around 4pm and quit around 11. I'm guessing that you Tailwind types
may have some
evening planned on your own but, if you don't and might like to attend, please
let me know. It is an
RSVP thing as we have to buy the stuff ahead of time. Last year 56 out of 60 RSVP's
showed
up and I about broke even money wise so I think it was a good thing. Perhaps let
me know if you're
interested? SNF this year goes from Wednesday, the 2nd. to Tuesday so we'd likely
be doing it on
Thursday or Friday.
Dave Stroud
L 16 B replica (Christavia)
C-FDWS Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 |
If the elevators are not balanced statically, how does one proceed to
balance them aerodynamically? Or, do I just leave well-enough alone?
Bill Newkirk
Fresno, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Luce" <luceair(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
> About the elevator balance....................... This is not a static
> balance with weight installed , it is an aerodynamic balance which takes
the
> load off the stick forces and counters any modes of flutter. Wittman never
> put any weight in it .
> Earl Luce
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
>
> >
> > Thanks, Dave.
> >
> > Bill Newkirk
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The portion of the elevator that is forward of the hinge (I don't know
> > what
> > > it is called specifically--it is the counter tab at the outer end) has
> > lead
> > > in it to balance the elevator with the balance point being the hinge
> line
> > > (the center of the front elevator tube that has the hinges on it).
This
> > is
> > > done taking into account the weight of the fabric and paint, since
that
> > will
> > > add more weight to the back portion of the elevator (ie behind the
hinge
> > > line). Since I put the lead in before covering, I had taken a swatch
of
> > > covering that I had from another plane, weighed it and calculated the
> area
> > > and thus the weight and moment for the covering of the elevator.
Added
> > lead
> > > to the front of the tab to balance. It came out in the end perfectly,
> > > although I could have drilled the lead for fine tuning.
> > >
> > > Does this help?
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> > >
> > >
>
> > > >
> > > > DAVE;
> > > > I don't know what you mean when you say you "balanced the elevator
at
> > the
> > > > hinge line(with covering)." Please enlighten me.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Bill Newkirk
> > > > Fresno CA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> > > > To:
> > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I only sized the tailfeathers to the W-10 size, but rounded the
> > leading
> > > > > outer corner to look more W-8 style rather than the sharp corner
of
> > the
> > > > > W-10. I have the counter weight portion just like the W-10, and I
> > > > balanced
> > > > > the elevator at the hinge line (with covering). The leading edge
of
> > the
> > > > > horizontal stab, because of the slightly increased size, is ahead
of
> > the
> > > > > place where it normally bolts to the fuselage. I just used a
> locking
> > > > > nutplate in the stab and bolt through from inside the fuselage.
The
> > > > > vertical stab and rudder are sized to the same area as the W-10
> > > (slightly
> > > > > larger than W-8), but again had the rounded leading corner per W-8
> > > style.
> > > > > You can see pics of my plane on the Unofficial tailwind site under
> > > N202Q.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk(at)msn.com>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DAVE;
> > > > > > Thanks for your reply.
> > > > > > How much modification have you done to the tail feathers?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill Newkirk
> > > > > > Fresno
> > > > > > N13BN (Murphy Rebel)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw(at)att.net>
> > > > > > To:
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill: I have a W-8 (but with W-10 tailfeathers and modified
> W-10
> > > > > > controls)
> > > > > > > that I flew with an O-235 for a year (156 hours) both long
cross
> > > > country
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > local flights. It is a delightful plane to fly. Max speed
was
> > > about
> > > > > 157
> > > > > > > MPH, but I think I could have gained a few MPH with a prop
with
> a
> > > > little
> > > > > > > less pitch, and perhaps a little cleanup on the airframe here
> and
> > > > there.
> > > > > > My
> > > > > > > biggest complaint was that at gross (1300#, mty was 800#) and
> > higher
> > > > > > density
> > > > > > > altitudes, the takeoff and climb performance was much like a
> > Cessna
> > > > 150.
> > > > > > > Again, some prop mods could have improved that some. But I
want
> > to
> > > be
> > > > > > able
> > > > > > > to fly out of Tahoe and places in New Mexico and Colorado on
hot
> > > days
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > two people and baggage and still have fuel to get somewhere.
> The
> > > > O-235
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > not give safe performance with those conditions, in my
opinion.
> > > > > > Therefore,
> > > > > > > I am in the process of converting to a 150 HP O-320. It will
> fit
> > > > right
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > and the weight is not much more. I am going to add an
auxiliary
> > > fuel
> > > > > tank
> > > > > > > behind the seat, also will help with the W&B.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dave
> > > > > > > N202Q
> > > > > > > W-8+
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I appreciated Boud's response to the question of a 320 in a
> W8.
> > > How
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > an O-235. I have one and have dis-assembled it for
> rebuilding.
> > I
> > > > > have
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > W8/W9 to put it in.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill Newkirk,
> > > > > > > > Fresno, CA
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen(at)horizonaero.com>
> > > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Gary,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The W-8 airframe is about 7 inches shorter than a W-10 and
> it
> > > has
> > > > > less
> > > > > > > > > horizontal stabilizer area as well as different design
> > > horizontal
> > > > > > > > stabilizer
> > > > > > > > > incidence. If you assume that your weight and balance
will
> be
> > > OK
> > > > > > (which
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > won't), the higher speed will cause a higher wing torsion
> > moment
> > > > on
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > airframe which will require a greater balancing force from
> the
> > > > > > > horizontal
> > > > > > > > > stabilizer. This means you will have to reset the leading
> > edge
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > tail
> > > > > > > > > down. This will cause greater trim drag, and reduce the
> > amount
> > > of
> > > > > > > > nose-down
> > > > > > > > > force available for such tings as high angle of attach
> > recovery.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > net
> > > > > > > > > increase in airspeed will not be what you might expect and
> you
> > > > will
> > > > > > > > > substantialy reduce the stability of the airplane. In
> > certified
> > > > > > > airplanes
> > > > > > > > > that went to bigger engines over the years, (like cessna
210
> > and
> > > > > Piper
> > > > > > > > > Comanche) the solution was/is a complicated system of
> balance
> > > > > springs
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > bob weights attached to the elevator system; certainly not
> > what
> > > > you
> > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > put in a Tailwind. If you compute the numbers on
horsepower
> > > only,
> > > > > > > (forget
> > > > > > > > > increased weight, cooling drag, trim drag, propeller
> > efficiency,
> > > > > etc.)
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > expected speed increase from a 150 hp engine would be
about
> > 18%,
> > > > but
> > > > > > > given
> > > > > > > > > everything else thats involved, it probably wouldn't even
be
> > > 10%.
> > > > > > Also
> > > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > > > you would have an airplane that is less stable, feel
> sluggish
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > controls (especially in pitch), have less useful load and
> > range,
> > > > > etc.,
> > > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > > See why Steve said, "keep it light"? In my opinion, a W-8
> is
> > > one
> > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > best airplanes ever designed for 85-100 hp, keep it that
> way.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Boud Kuenen
> > > > > > > > > NX888WT
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: "Gary Fincher" <backcountry(at)peedeeworld.net>
> > > > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing
a
> > > > 0-320.
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > told that the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be
> > installed.
> > > > Is
> > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > > any out there flying? If so what needs to be done? Any
> replies
> > > > will
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > appreciated. Thanks, Gary Fincher
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
December 23, 2002 - January 27, 2003
Tailwind-Archive.digest.vol-ax