Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:49 AM - Re: Single Engine flying (nico css)
2. 04:54 AM - N854BW for sale...an absolute "gem"! (Russell Legg)
3. 04:58 AM - Re: HAPPY EASTER (Russell Legg)
4. 07:27 AM - Re: Sale of My Baby (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
5. 07:32 AM - Re: Single Engine flying (Moe)
6. 07:41 AM - Re: Single Engine flying (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
7. 07:57 AM - Re: Sale of My Baby (CloudCraft@aol.com)
8. 08:13 AM - Health (Bill Bow)
9. 08:40 AM - Re: Health (Howard Windham)
10. 08:43 AM - Re: Health (CloudCraft@aol.com)
11. 09:08 AM - Re: Single Engine flying (John Vormbaum)
12. 09:29 AM - Re: Health (Bill Bow)
13. 09:45 AM - Re: Commander-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 03/27/05 (Dan Farmer)
14. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: Commander-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 03/27/05 (nico css)
15. 10:37 AM - Park City (Dave)
16. 10:52 AM - Re: Single Engine Flying (Larry Wokral)
17. 11:08 AM - Frozen Rudder Trim (Larry Wokral)
18. 12:25 PM - Re: Park City (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
19. 08:07 PM - Re: Frozen Rudder Trim (RRamm52@cs.com)
20. 08:16 PM - Re: Frozen Rudder Trim (John Vormbaum)
21. 10:43 PM - Re: Single Engine flying (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
22. 10:58 PM - Re: Single Engine flying (nico css)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Single Engine flying |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Oh, absolutely, Tom, which is why the Commander came into my life. The other
benefits such as getting to move around a bit in the cabin, further
accentuated the justification for the extra investment.
When I took off with the Twin Comanche fully loaded, I always mentally
prepared myself to handle an engine out situation as if the Twin were a
single engine plane with limited extended glide properties.
I must say, however, I could maintain 8000' on one engine near GW while in
cruise. Even that makes it superior to a single engine.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Single Engine flying
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher"
<tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
>
> Your Twin Comanche would not be able to do that at GW, a Commander can!
> Tom F.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Single Engine flying
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css"
> <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
> >
> >
> >My first twin, a Twin Comanche, lost power on the left engine on takeoff
> one
> >day. Knowing to do that when I was lightly loaded and alone on board,
made
> >it a non-event circling and landing again. My Commander, however, never
> >pulled a trick like that on me.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | N854BW for sale...an absolute "gem"! |
3.03 DATE_IN_FUTURE_12_24 Date": commander-list@matronics.com
--> Commander-List message posted by: Russell Legg <rlegg@austarnet.com.au>
Hey Folks,
Can I say that the very best example of a 560E has just come on the market.
N854BW has been purposefully rebuilt to a "gem" specimen over the past ten
years and is an absolute credit to the high standards that Buddy has set in
its restoration.
I am honoured to have had the opportunity to fly this aircraft for several
hours immediately after the 2004 fly-in.
54BW performed just flawlessly and was ultimately forgiving to a little bit
of wacky treatment that this Ozzie unleashed...too fast and a little short
on flap on a narrow runway! The aircraft's retrousse "Chamberlain" nose
suitably befits the authority that it commands!
This 560E is fitted with a fantastic array of digital support and has a
beautifully restored interior...I found it great to rest my head back on my
leather seat with its specially embossed period Aero Commander logo.
54BW is a fantastic specimen of the best of "bath-tub" Commanders...as Dick
Wartinger commented many times... "the 560E is the most sought after
Commander variant...".
I have personally viewed the fastidious paperwork that accompanies this
aircraft and I am aware of the exhaustive "annual" process that it has been
subject to over the past several years.
I am convinced that Buddy will overcome this FAA nonsense in the medium term
and will find another twin Commander to work his magic on sometime
soon...perhaps a turbine...
As John has already commented; Buddy has earned "stardom" status within the
TCFG and is strictly expected to continue to exercise this status on behalf
of the Group.
Bud...our thoughts are with you old pal...
Cheers
Russell
On 28/3/05 9:11 AM, "buddy@cyconenterprises.com"
<buddy@cyconenterprises.com> wrote:
> --> Commander-List message posted by: buddy@cyconenterprises.com
>
> Hey guys,
>
> It is with a very heavy heart that I must announce
> that the FAA has decided that I should give them back my medical due to my
> developing what is known as idiopathic cardiomyopathy, in short a weak
> heart. What this means is that I must sell my toys. I have what I believe
> is the nicest 560e flying today. I also have an Enstrom helicopter which
> must go. Anyways if anyone would like to see the spec's and pic's of my
> stuff go to cyconenterprises.com and take a peak. I have spoken to Jimbo
> and explained my sad circumstances. I am planning on staying in the flight
> group and continuing supporting in what ever way I can the tradition of what
> I feel is the best aircraft every built. Well I'm begining to tear up so
> I'll say bye for now. Stay in touch.
>
>
> H.W."Buddy" Windham
> President
> Cycon Enterprises, Inc.
> Excalibur Contracting, Inc.
> The Windham Companies, Inc.
> L&B Investors, LLC
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: HAPPY EASTER |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Russell Legg <rlegg@austarnet.com.au>
G'day Folks.
Be sure to have a great Easter!
Cheers
Russell
On 28/3/05 3:36 AM, "Jim Addington" <jtaddington@charter.net> wrote:
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington"
> <jtaddington@charter.net>
>
> Throw me in that briar patch too, no FAA and no fuel problems, really sounds
> good.
>
> Jim Addington
> N444BD
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> YOURTCFG@aol.com
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
>
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
>
> HI KIDS.
>
> I just want to wish all of you a Happy Easter! Remember, there is
> no such thing as the Easter bunny. We celebrate this day a risen savior,
> Jesus Christ. He died and was resurrect, today, so that you and I can have
> eternal life basking in the glory of our almighty God, the creator of the
> universe. His sacrifice was our gain. Eternal life WOW!!
> Do you know him?? Are you sure of your salvation?? Where will you
> spent eternity?? I hope it is with me in heaven. May God bless all of you
> this
> wonderful day
>
> Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
>
> PS I sure hope there are Aero Commander in heaven!! With fuel tanks that
> never go dry!! ;-) jb
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer@charter.net>
Hey Buddy,
Sorry to hear that you are sending in your medical cert, but glad to kow
that you are interested in staying with the group and keeping active in
aviaition. I hope that you will join us for the Commander fly-in in
California. Looking forward to seeing you.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
buddy@cyconenterprises.com
Subject: Commander-List: Sale of My Baby
--> Commander-List message posted by: buddy@cyconenterprises.com
Hey guys,
It is with a very heavy heart that I must announce
that the FAA has decided that I should give them back my medical due to my
developing what is known as idiopathic cardiomyopathy, in short a weak
heart. What this means is that I must sell my toys. I have what I believe
is the nicest 560e flying today. I also have an Enstrom helicopter which
must go. Anyways if anyone would like to see the spec's and pic's of my
stuff go to cyconenterprises.com and take a peak. I have spoken to Jimbo
and explained my sad circumstances. I am planning on staying in the flight
group and continuing supporting in what ever way I can the tradition of what
I feel is the best aircraft every built. Well I'm begining to tear up so
I'll say bye for now. Stay in touch.
H.W."Buddy" Windham
President
Cycon Enterprises, Inc.
Excalibur Contracting, Inc.
The Windham Companies, Inc.
L&B Investors, LLC
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Single Engine flying |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Larry,
Very happy to hear of your successful outcome.
With your conversion, does the crankcase breather no longer exit behind the
exhaust? I thought that a heated exit, or a "breather notch" was mandatory
on all piston engines in aircraft.
On another subject, can anyone tell me if most piston Commanders have wet
vacuum pumps? My 680F(p) has wet vacuum pumps.
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Wokral" <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Single Engine flying
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral"
<l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
>
> I just had an experience I thought I'd share or get some comments on.
>
> While returning to Montana at 17,500' this last Thursday, my right engine
> started loosing a little MP. Initially, I easily got it back with just a
> little push of the throttle. Within a minute or so of this, it suddenly
> dropped about 10 inches MP, and the engine started to run rough. I still
had
> oil pressure, and the JPI engine scanner didn't send any alarms. I looked
> out the right window, and saw oil all over the nose bowl. I immediately
shut
> it down and feathered the prop.
>
> So here I am VFR (on flight following) at 17,500' above a cloud deck over
> very remote northern Nevada. I got everything stabilized, but I couldn't
get
> any rudder trim. Perhaps with all the rain in Central California while I
was
> there something froze up along the trim cable. The OAT was -25C. I easily
> maintained 16,500' with just the left engine. My GPS said I was near the
> McDermott airport. I've seen it from the air many times when flying my
> Cardinal RG along this same route. It is literally in the middle of
nowhere
> with nothing around. There was at least a 2,000-5,000' thick layer of cold
> clouds between me and it, and it has no instrument approach. I reluctantly
> decided to declare an emergency with ATC. They wanted to vector me into
the
> McDermott strip. My GPS said I was 45 minutes from Boise, so I opted to
> proceed there.
>
> I was at the edge of the Paradise and Owyhee MOAs near V113 where two F15s
> were maneuvering. I had asked Salt Lake Center if Boise Approach had or
> could get any pilot reports of a hole through the clouds anywhere between
me
> and their field. I wasn't looking forward to a single engine IFR approach
> through an unknown thickness of clouds in a plane that I had no single
> engine experience in. They called up the F15s and asked them if they could
> find a hole. Within a couple of minutes, one of the F15s called me on my
> assigned frequency telling me that he was forming up on my left side. I
must
> say that it is pretty cool to see an F15 fairly close in formation with
you.
> He split off to the left and reformed on the right side to see the
feathered
> engine. He was amazed that the entire nacelle and that side of the
> horizontal tail was covered in oil. The other F15 had flown forward to
look
> for a hole. The first one departed, and the second F15 appeared to lead me
> to a hole he had found. I descended making very shallow turns down through
> it. Thankfully the ceiling was over 5,000'.
>
> The rest of the flight to Boise and the landing went well. I was handed
off
> to Boise Approach who kept me all the way through the landing. They were
all
> great to work with. The female controller even already knew about not
> turning into the dead engine when she vectored me for a base entry.
>
> A fire truck followed me along the taxiway until I stopped on an FBO's
ramp.
> When I exited the plane, he handed me a chunk of ice that he saw fall from
> somewhere near the failed right engine. As I began trying to evaluate the
> problem, it occurred to me that the ice probably had come off the
crankcase
> breather. If so, it had probably blocked venting causing a nose seal to
> blow. I found a mechanic that took me in. He spent a couple of hours
> cleaning the engine and looking for the problem. There was still three
> quarts of oil in the crankcase, so, luckily, there was no engine damage.
> When I did a runup, we could see oil coming from the vicinity of the nose
> seal. You can't actually see it because it is behind the prop and hub. Of
> course that was the problem as we confirmed when we removed the prop and
> hub.
>
> We got it all back together with a new nose seal late Friday night. I flew
> it home to Hamilton Montana (6S5) yesterday just a few hours before a new
> storm arrived.
>
> Reflections:
> This airplane (500B) handles well on one engine. The Merlyn Turbo 320
> conversion's claim of a 16K' single engine service ceiling is believable.
> With just me, about 100 lbs of baggage, and about 100 gallons of fuel
> aboard, I could have maintained my 17,000' altitude indefinitely at about
> 120 KIAS. ATC was very professional and ready to devote any effort to the
> problem. The F15s, while not expected, sure were nice to have around. The
> single engine landing wasn't difficult. You CAN taxi with only the left
> engine operating as long as you keep moving. 45-50 minutes takes a lot
> longer to pass when you have one shut down. A little adrenalin
occasionally
> reminds you that you are still alive. Immediately shutting the engine down
> prevented any damage (we looked the turbo over and cut open the oil filter
> for a look see just to be sure).
>
> Still need to learn (among other things):
> I need to figure out why an engine breather tube can freeze in VMC (I was
> never in the clouds at any time from take-off to landing and saw no
visible
> moisture. I do have the Cleveland double brake conversion which reroutes
the
> vent from the aluminum tube and via scat tubing down to the lower outside
> edge of the well. It probably needs to have an upstresam vent slot cut
> somewhere (like my Cessna Cardinal had) or perhaps rerouted into the
> exhaust). I need to learn the appropriate power setting for one engine
after
> everything is stabilized (of course I initially went to full rich, full
RPM,
> and full throttle on the left engine, but a couple of cylinder CHTs got to
> around 440 even with the cowl flaps open - below limits but more than I
want
> to see). I'll bet that I could have lowered the power some. I need to find
> out where rain water can stay in the rudder trim system allowing it to
> freeze at altitude (it froze again during the 1 hour flight Saturday at
> 15,500 from Boise to Hamilton).
>
> The other question:
> Do I log this as single engine or multi engine time?
>
> Larry Wokral,
> 500B
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Single Engine flying |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer@charter.net>
Hey Larry,
Thanks for sharing your adventure...what a great outcome. You obviously
handled the situation with a calm and professional manner. We all learn and
benefit from hearing about what you experienced and your respnse to an
emergency situation. Well done..!!
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry
Wokral
Subject: Commander-List: Single Engine flying
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral"
<l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
I just had an experience I thought I'd share or get some comments on.
While returning to Montana at 17,500' this last Thursday, my right engine
started loosing a little MP. Initially, I easily got it back with just a
little push of the throttle. Within a minute or so of this, it suddenly
dropped about 10 inches MP, and the engine started to run rough. I still had
oil pressure, and the JPI engine scanner didn't send any alarms. I looked
out the right window, and saw oil all over the nose bowl. I immediately shut
it down and feathered the prop.
So here I am VFR (on flight following) at 17,500' above a cloud deck over
very remote northern Nevada. I got everything stabilized, but I couldn't get
any rudder trim. Perhaps with all the rain in Central California while I was
there something froze up along the trim cable. The OAT was -25C. I easily
maintained 16,500' with just the left engine. My GPS said I was near the
McDermott airport. I've seen it from the air many times when flying my
Cardinal RG along this same route. It is literally in the middle of nowhere
with nothing around. There was at least a 2,000-5,000' thick layer of cold
clouds between me and it, and it has no instrument approach. I reluctantly
decided to declare an emergency with ATC. They wanted to vector me into the
McDermott strip. My GPS said I was 45 minutes from Boise, so I opted to
proceed there.
I was at the edge of the Paradise and Owyhee MOAs near V113 where two F15s
were maneuvering. I had asked Salt Lake Center if Boise Approach had or
could get any pilot reports of a hole through the clouds anywhere between me
and their field. I wasn't looking forward to a single engine IFR approach
through an unknown thickness of clouds in a plane that I had no single
engine experience in. They called up the F15s and asked them if they could
find a hole. Within a couple of minutes, one of the F15s called me on my
assigned frequency telling me that he was forming up on my left side. I must
say that it is pretty cool to see an F15 fairly close in formation with you.
He split off to the left and reformed on the right side to see the feathered
engine. He was amazed that the entire nacelle and that side of the
horizontal tail was covered in oil. The other F15 had flown forward to look
for a hole. The first one departed, and the second F15 appeared to lead me
to a hole he had found. I descended making very shallow turns down through
it. Thankfully the ceiling was over 5,000'.
The rest of the flight to Boise and the landing went well. I was handed off
to Boise Approach who kept me all the way through the landing. They were all
great to work with. The female controller even already knew about not
turning into the dead engine when she vectored me for a base entry.
A fire truck followed me along the taxiway until I stopped on an FBO's ramp.
When I exited the plane, he handed me a chunk of ice that he saw fall from
somewhere near the failed right engine. As I began trying to evaluate the
problem, it occurred to me that the ice probably had come off the crankcase
breather. If so, it had probably blocked venting causing a nose seal to
blow. I found a mechanic that took me in. He spent a couple of hours
cleaning the engine and looking for the problem. There was still three
quarts of oil in the crankcase, so, luckily, there was no engine damage.
When I did a runup, we could see oil coming from the vicinity of the nose
seal. You can't actually see it because it is behind the prop and hub. Of
course that was the problem as we confirmed when we removed the prop and
hub.
We got it all back together with a new nose seal late Friday night. I flew
it home to Hamilton Montana (6S5) yesterday just a few hours before a new
storm arrived.
Reflections:
This airplane (500B) handles well on one engine. The Merlyn Turbo 320
conversion's claim of a 16K' single engine service ceiling is believable.
With just me, about 100 lbs of baggage, and about 100 gallons of fuel
aboard, I could have maintained my 17,000' altitude indefinitely at about
120 KIAS. ATC was very professional and ready to devote any effort to the
problem. The F15s, while not expected, sure were nice to have around. The
single engine landing wasn't difficult. You CAN taxi with only the left
engine operating as long as you keep moving. 45-50 minutes takes a lot
longer to pass when you have one shut down. A little adrenalin occasionally
reminds you that you are still alive. Immediately shutting the engine down
prevented any damage (we looked the turbo over and cut open the oil filter
for a look see just to be sure).
Still need to learn (among other things):
I need to figure out why an engine breather tube can freeze in VMC (I was
never in the clouds at any time from take-off to landing and saw no visible
moisture. I do have the Cleveland double brake conversion which reroutes the
vent from the aluminum tube and via scat tubing down to the lower outside
edge of the well. It probably needs to have an upstresam vent slot cut
somewhere (like my Cessna Cardinal had) or perhaps rerouted into the
exhaust). I need to learn the appropriate power setting for one engine after
everything is stabilized (of course I initially went to full rich, full RPM,
and full throttle on the left engine, but a couple of cylinder CHTs got to
around 440 even with the cowl flaps open - below limits but more than I want
to see). I'll bet that I could have lowered the power some. I need to find
out where rain water can stay in the rudder trim system allowing it to
freeze at altitude (it froze again during the 1 hour flight Saturday at
15,500 from Boise to Hamilton).
The other question:
Do I log this as single engine or multi engine time?
Larry Wokral,
500B
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Sale of My Baby |
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
Buddy,
I, too, was very saddened by your letter to us. As Mason points out, this
is something that hovers over us all the time ... I know that each time I go
for my Airman Medical that I wonder if "this is the day my career ends."
You've been with the Twin Commander Flight Group for a long time -- I
remember chatting with you when I was at the TCFG offices in Blue Springs, MO,
around
1997.
You have lots to contribute and if it's not too painful of a reminder of what
you've had to let go of, please stay onboard. Looks like you have an open
seat on a bunch of Commanders so take advantage of that.
We all wish you the best and we all want you to stay with us.
Wing Commander Gordon
Message 8
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
Hi Buddy,
Sorry to hear of your health problems. I have fond memories of our-fly in in South
Carolina.
Can't you just get a rated "safety pilot" to fly along with you and keep it.
bilbo
Message 9
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Howard Windham" <buddy@cyconenterprises.com>
Already thought about that, but I can't afford a driver for my limo and my
airplane. Thanks for you support and I'll see you again in California or
one of the next flyin's.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bow
Subject: Commander-List: Health
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow"
--> <bowing74@earthlink.net>
Hi Buddy,
Sorry to hear of your health problems. I have fond memories of our-fly in
in South Carolina.
Can't you just get a rated "safety pilot" to fly along with you and keep it.
bilbo
Message 10
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--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 28-Mar-05 08:41:03 Pacific Standard Time,
buddy@cyconenterprises.com writes:
Already thought about that, but I can't afford a driver for my limo and my
airplane.
Certainly you can get a servant with a multi engine rating ... my company has
several of us.
Wing Commander Gordon
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Single Engine flying |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
Hey Moe! (nyuk nyuk)
From what I understand, Larry's airplane had a Cleveland brake conversion
that moved the breather from the aft nacelle (you might have those
do-nothing tubes, 3/4" or so in diameter, that exit straight aft at the back
of the nacelle....those used to be crankcase breathers) to the bottom of the
nacelle because the new calipers would hit the old breather tubes when you
folded the gear up (I think). So his breathers exit at the bottom of the
nacelle. Got this from Morris, who had a chance to look at Larry's airplane
recently.
An unusual occurrence in any case, but again, very well handled.
Also, I'm sure that ALL Commanders came with wet pumps, mine have them too.
I replaced one in '02 or so, but I'm pretty sure the other one is original
1962 vintage. Messy, but they last forever.
I wouldn't mind making my airplane an all-electric airplane someday (except
for the boots) but that's a ways down the road.
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Single Engine flying
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
>
> Larry,
>
> Very happy to hear of your successful outcome.
>
> With your conversion, does the crankcase breather no longer exit behind
the
> exhaust? I thought that a heated exit, or a "breather notch" was
mandatory
> on all piston engines in aircraft.
>
> On another subject, can anyone tell me if most piston Commanders have wet
> vacuum pumps? My 680F(p) has wet vacuum pumps.
>
> Regards,
>
> Moe Mills
> N680RR
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Wokral" <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
> To: "Commander e-mail list" <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Commander-List: Single Engine flying
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral"
> <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
> >
> > I just had an experience I thought I'd share or get some comments on.
> >
> > While returning to Montana at 17,500' this last Thursday, my right
engine
> > started loosing a little MP. Initially, I easily got it back with just a
> > little push of the throttle. Within a minute or so of this, it suddenly
> > dropped about 10 inches MP, and the engine started to run rough. I still
> had
> > oil pressure, and the JPI engine scanner didn't send any alarms. I
looked
> > out the right window, and saw oil all over the nose bowl. I immediately
> shut
> > it down and feathered the prop.
> >
> > So here I am VFR (on flight following) at 17,500' above a cloud deck
over
> > very remote northern Nevada. I got everything stabilized, but I couldn't
> get
> > any rudder trim. Perhaps with all the rain in Central California while I
> was
> > there something froze up along the trim cable. The OAT was -25C. I
easily
> > maintained 16,500' with just the left engine. My GPS said I was near the
> > McDermott airport. I've seen it from the air many times when flying my
> > Cardinal RG along this same route. It is literally in the middle of
> nowhere
> > with nothing around. There was at least a 2,000-5,000' thick layer of
cold
> > clouds between me and it, and it has no instrument approach. I
reluctantly
> > decided to declare an emergency with ATC. They wanted to vector me into
> the
> > McDermott strip. My GPS said I was 45 minutes from Boise, so I opted to
> > proceed there.
> >
> > I was at the edge of the Paradise and Owyhee MOAs near V113 where two
F15s
> > were maneuvering. I had asked Salt Lake Center if Boise Approach had or
> > could get any pilot reports of a hole through the clouds anywhere
between
> me
> > and their field. I wasn't looking forward to a single engine IFR
approach
> > through an unknown thickness of clouds in a plane that I had no single
> > engine experience in. They called up the F15s and asked them if they
could
> > find a hole. Within a couple of minutes, one of the F15s called me on my
> > assigned frequency telling me that he was forming up on my left side. I
> must
> > say that it is pretty cool to see an F15 fairly close in formation with
> you.
> > He split off to the left and reformed on the right side to see the
> feathered
> > engine. He was amazed that the entire nacelle and that side of the
> > horizontal tail was covered in oil. The other F15 had flown forward to
> look
> > for a hole. The first one departed, and the second F15 appeared to lead
me
> > to a hole he had found. I descended making very shallow turns down
through
> > it. Thankfully the ceiling was over 5,000'.
> >
> > The rest of the flight to Boise and the landing went well. I was handed
> off
> > to Boise Approach who kept me all the way through the landing. They were
> all
> > great to work with. The female controller even already knew about not
> > turning into the dead engine when she vectored me for a base entry.
> >
> > A fire truck followed me along the taxiway until I stopped on an FBO's
> ramp.
> > When I exited the plane, he handed me a chunk of ice that he saw fall
from
> > somewhere near the failed right engine. As I began trying to evaluate
the
> > problem, it occurred to me that the ice probably had come off the
> crankcase
> > breather. If so, it had probably blocked venting causing a nose seal to
> > blow. I found a mechanic that took me in. He spent a couple of hours
> > cleaning the engine and looking for the problem. There was still three
> > quarts of oil in the crankcase, so, luckily, there was no engine damage.
> > When I did a runup, we could see oil coming from the vicinity of the
nose
> > seal. You can't actually see it because it is behind the prop and hub.
Of
> > course that was the problem as we confirmed when we removed the prop and
> > hub.
> >
> > We got it all back together with a new nose seal late Friday night. I
flew
> > it home to Hamilton Montana (6S5) yesterday just a few hours before a
new
> > storm arrived.
> >
> > Reflections:
> > This airplane (500B) handles well on one engine. The Merlyn Turbo 320
> > conversion's claim of a 16K' single engine service ceiling is
believable.
> > With just me, about 100 lbs of baggage, and about 100 gallons of fuel
> > aboard, I could have maintained my 17,000' altitude indefinitely at
about
> > 120 KIAS. ATC was very professional and ready to devote any effort to
the
> > problem. The F15s, while not expected, sure were nice to have around.
The
> > single engine landing wasn't difficult. You CAN taxi with only the left
> > engine operating as long as you keep moving. 45-50 minutes takes a lot
> > longer to pass when you have one shut down. A little adrenalin
> occasionally
> > reminds you that you are still alive. Immediately shutting the engine
down
> > prevented any damage (we looked the turbo over and cut open the oil
filter
> > for a look see just to be sure).
> >
> > Still need to learn (among other things):
> > I need to figure out why an engine breather tube can freeze in VMC (I
was
> > never in the clouds at any time from take-off to landing and saw no
> visible
> > moisture. I do have the Cleveland double brake conversion which reroutes
> the
> > vent from the aluminum tube and via scat tubing down to the lower
outside
> > edge of the well. It probably needs to have an upstresam vent slot cut
> > somewhere (like my Cessna Cardinal had) or perhaps rerouted into the
> > exhaust). I need to learn the appropriate power setting for one engine
> after
> > everything is stabilized (of course I initially went to full rich, full
> RPM,
> > and full throttle on the left engine, but a couple of cylinder CHTs got
to
> > around 440 even with the cowl flaps open - below limits but more than I
> want
> > to see). I'll bet that I could have lowered the power some. I need to
find
> > out where rain water can stay in the rudder trim system allowing it to
> > freeze at altitude (it froze again during the 1 hour flight Saturday at
> > 15,500 from Boise to Hamilton).
> >
> > The other question:
> > Do I log this as single engine or multi engine time?
> >
> > Larry Wokral,
> > 500B
> >
> >
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1038 (20050326) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1038 (20050326) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
Get the limo driver a pilots license.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Windham" <buddy@cyconenterprises.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Health
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Howard Windham"
> <buddy@cyconenterprises.com>
>
> Already thought about that, but I can't afford a driver for my limo and my
> airplane. Thanks for you support and I'll see you again in California or
> one of the next flyin's.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bow
> To: Commander List
> Subject: Commander-List: Health
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow"
> --> <bowing74@earthlink.net>
>
> Hi Buddy,
>
> Sorry to hear of your health problems. I have fond memories of our-fly in
> in South Carolina.
>
> Can't you just get a rated "safety pilot" to fly along with you and keep
> it.
>
> bilbo
>
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 03/27/05 |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer@yahoo.com>
Buddy
It saddens me to think of you not flying BUD 1. The two of you are a couple of
class acts. Hope to see you at the TC fly ins.
Dan Farmer
6369U
Commander-List Digest Server <commander-list-digest@matronics.com> wrote:
*
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-03-27.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-03-27.txt
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Commander-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sun 03/27/05: 16
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:03 AM - HAPPY EASTER (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
2. 09:15 AM - Re: HAPPY EASTER (Frits Abbing)
3. 09:30 AM - Re: HAPPY EASTER (RRamm52@cs.com)
4. 10:06 AM - Re: HAPPY EASTER (Jim Addington)
5. 02:59 PM - Re: HAPPY EASTER (nico css)
6. 03:42 PM - Sale of My Baby (buddy@cyconenterprises.com)
7. 03:55 PM - Re: Commander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 03/26/05 (joe@taccapitalgroup.com)
8. 04:05 PM - Single Engine flying (Larry Wokral)
9. 04:15 PM - Re: Sale of My Baby (John Vormbaum)
10. 04:17 PM - Re: Single Engine flying (alh1@juno.com)
11. 04:29 PM - Re: Single Engine flying (John Vormbaum)
12. 05:24 PM - Re: Sale of My Baby (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
13. 05:45 PM - Re: Sale of My Baby (Jim Addington)
14. 07:31 PM - Re: Single Engine flying (nico css)
15. 07:44 PM - Re: Sale of My Baby (nico css)
16. 11:31 PM - Re: Single Engine flying (Tom Fisher)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 09:03:15 AM PST US
From: YOURTCFG@aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
HI KIDS.
I just want to wish all of you a Happy Easter! Remember, there is
no such thing as the Easter bunny. We celebrate this day a risen savior,
Jesus Christ. He died and was resurrect, today, so that you and I can have
eternal life basking in the glory of our almighty God, the creator of the
universe. His sacrifice was our gain. Eternal life WOW!!
Do you know him?? Are you sure of your salvation?? Where will you
spent eternity?? I hope it is with me in heaven. May God bless all of you this
wonderful day
Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
PS I sure hope there are Aero Commander in heaven!! With fuel tanks that
never go dry!! ;-) jb
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 09:15:12 AM PST US
From: Frits Abbing
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
--> Commander-List message posted by: Frits Abbing
There is no fuel in heaven, they all fly on air.
And there is no FAA also, so ......!!!
Happy Easter.
--- YOURTCFG@aol.com wrote:
> --> Commander-List message posted by:
> YOURTCFG@aol.com
>
> HI KIDS.
>
> I just want to wish all of you a Happy
> Easter! Remember, there is
> no such thing as the Easter bunny. We celebrate
> this day a risen savior,
> Jesus Christ. He died and was resurrect, today, so
> that you and I can have
> eternal life basking in the glory of our almighty
> God, the creator of the
> universe. His sacrifice was our gain. Eternal
> life WOW!!
> Do you know him?? Are you sure of your
> salvation?? Where will you
> spent eternity?? I hope it is with me in heaven.
> May God bless all of you this
> wonderful day
>
> Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
>
> PS I sure hope there are Aero Commander in heaven!!
> With fuel tanks that
> never go dry!! ;-) jb
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 09:30:32 AM PST US
From: RRamm52@cs.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
--> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com
Amen, Jim
Happy Easter, All.
Rob Munro
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 10:06:45 AM PST US
From: "Jim Addington"
Subject: RE: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington"
Throw me in that briar patch too, no FAA and no fuel problems, really sounds
good.
Jim Addington
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
YOURTCFG@aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
HI KIDS.
I just want to wish all of you a Happy Easter! Remember, there is
no such thing as the Easter bunny. We celebrate this day a risen savior,
Jesus Christ. He died and was resurrect, today, so that you and I can have
eternal life basking in the glory of our almighty God, the creator of the
universe. His sacrifice was our gain. Eternal life WOW!!
Do you know him?? Are you sure of your salvation?? Where will you
spent eternity?? I hope it is with me in heaven. May God bless all of you
this
wonderful day
Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
PS I sure hope there are Aero Commander in heaven!! With fuel tanks that
never go dry!! ;-) jb
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 02:59:10 PM PST US
From: "nico css"
Subject: Re: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css"
Thanks for your testimonies, guys. Not only no fuel required, but Aero
Commanders that can traverse the stars.
Praise God from whom all blessings flow.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Addington"
Subject: RE: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington"
>
> Throw me in that briar patch too, no FAA and no fuel problems, really
sounds
> good.
>
> Jim Addington
> N444BD
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> YOURTCFG@aol.com
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
>
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
>
> HI KIDS.
>
> I just want to wish all of you a Happy Easter! Remember, there
is
> no such thing as the Easter bunny. We celebrate this day a risen savior,
> Jesus Christ. He died and was resurrect, today, so that you and I can
have
> eternal life basking in the glory of our almighty God, the creator of the
> universe. His sacrifice was our gain. Eternal life WOW!!
> Do you know him?? Are you sure of your salvation?? Where will you
> spent eternity?? I hope it is with me in heaven. May God bless all of
you
> this
> wonderful day
>
> Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
>
> PS I sure hope there are Aero Commander in heaven!! With fuel tanks
that
> never go dry!! ;-) jb
>
>
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 03:42:30 PM PST US
From: buddy@cyconenterprises.com
Subject: Commander-List: Sale of My Baby
--> Commander-List message posted by: buddy@cyconenterprises.com
Hey guys,
It is with a very heavy heart that I must announce
that the FAA has decided that I should give them back my medical due to my
developing what is known as idiopathic cardiomyopathy, in short a weak
heart. What this means is that I must sell my toys. I have what I believe
is the nicest 560e flying today. I also have an Enstrom helicopter which
must go. Anyways if anyone would like to see the spec's and pic's of my
stuff go to cyconenterprises.com and take a peak. I have spoken to Jimbo
and explained my sad circumstances. I am planning on staying in the flight
group and continuing supporting in what ever way I can the tradition of what
I feel is the best aircraft every built. Well I'm begining to tear up so
I'll say bye for now. Stay in touch.
H.W."Buddy" Windham
President
Cycon Enterprises, Inc.
Excalibur Contracting, Inc.
The Windham Companies, Inc.
L&B Investors, LLC
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 03:55:24 PM PST US
From: joe@taccapitalgroup.com
Subject: Commander-List: RE: Commander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 03/26/05
--> Commander-List message posted by: joe@taccapitalgroup.com
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Commander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 03/26/05
> From: Commander-List Digest Server
>
> Date: Sat, March 26, 2005 11:55 pm
> To: Commander-List Digest List
>
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-03-26.html
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-03-26.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Commander-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 03/26/05: 1
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 04:46 AM - Fw: seajean flying boat conversion (Avtec2)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:46:24 AM PST US
> From: "Avtec2"
> Subject: Commander-List: Fw: seajean flying boat conversion
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Avtec2"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jean
> Subject: seajean flying boat conversion
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
Time: 04:05:56 PM PST US
From: "Larry Wokral"
Subject: Commander-List: Single Engine flying
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral"
I just had an experience I thought I'd share or get some comments on.
While returning to Montana at 17,500' this last Thursday, my right engine
started loosing a little MP. Initially, I easily got it back with just a
little push of the throttle. Within a minute or so of this, it suddenly
dropped about 10 inches MP, and the engine started to run rough. I still had
oil pressure, and the JPI engine scanner didn't send any alarms. I looked
out the right window, and saw oil all over the nose bowl. I immediately shut
it down and feathered the prop.
So here I am VFR (on flight following) at 17,500' above a cloud deck over
very remote northern Nevada. I got everything stabilized, but I couldn't get
any rudder trim. Perhaps with all the rain in Central California while I was
there something froze up along the trim cable. The OAT was -25C. I easily
maintained 16,500' with just the left engine. My GPS said I was near the
McDermott airport. I've seen it from the air many times when flying my
Cardinal RG along this same route. It is literally in the middle of nowhere
with nothing around. There was at least a 2,000-5,000' thick layer of cold
clouds between me and it, and it has no instrument approach. I reluctantly
decided to declare an emergency with ATC. They wanted to vector me into the
McDermott strip. My GPS said I was 45 minutes from Boise, so I opted to
proceed there.
I was at the edge of the Paradise and Owyhee MOAs near V113 where two F15s
were maneuvering. I had asked Salt Lake Center if Boise Approach had or
could get any pilot reports of a hole through the clouds anywhere between me
and their field. I wasn't looking forward to a single engine IFR approach
through an unknown thickness of clouds in a plane that I had no single
engine experience in. They called up the F15s and asked them if they could
find a hole. Within a couple of minutes, one of the F15s called me on my
assigned frequency telling me that he was forming up on my left side. I must
say that it is pretty cool to see an F15 fairly close in formation with you.
He split off to the left and reformed on the right side to see the feathered
engine. He was amazed that the entire nacelle and that side of the
horizontal tail was covered in oil. The other F15 had flown forward to look
for a hole. The first one departed, and the second F15 appeared to lead me
to a hole he had found. I descended making very shallow turns down through
it. Thankfully the ceiling was over 5,000'.
The rest of the flight to Boise and the landing went well. I was handed off
to Boise Approach who kept me all the way through the landing. They were all
great to work with. The female controller even already knew about not
turning into the dead engine when she vectored me for a base entry.
A fire truck followed me along the taxiway until I stopped on an FBO's ramp.
When I exited the plane, he handed me a chunk of ice that he saw fall from
somewhere near the failed right engine. As I began trying to evaluate the
problem, it occurred to me that the ice probably had come off the crankcase
breather. If so, it had probably blocked venting causing a nose seal to
blow. I found a mechanic that took me in. He spent a couple of hours
cleaning the engine and looking for the problem. There was still three
quarts of oil in the crankcase, so, luckily, there was no engine damage.
When I did a runup, we could see oil coming from the vicinity of the nose
seal. You can't actually see it because it is behind the prop and hub. Of
course that was the problem as we confirmed when we removed the prop and
hub.
We got it all back together with a new nose seal late Friday night. I flew
it home to Hamilton Montana (6S5) yesterday just a few hours before a new
storm arrived.
Reflections:
This airplane (500B) handles well on one engine. The Merlyn Turbo 320
conversion's claim of a 16K' single engine service ceiling is believable.
With just me, about 100 lbs of baggage, and about 100 gallons of fuel
aboard, I could have maintained my 17,000' altitude indefinitely at about
120 KIAS. ATC was very professional and ready to devote any effort to the
problem. The F15s, while not expected, sure were nice to have around. The
single engine landing wasn't difficult. You CAN taxi with only the left
engine operating as long as you keep moving. 45-50 minutes takes a lot
longer to pass when you have one shut down. A little adrenalin occasionally
reminds you that you are still alive. Immediately shutting the engine down
prevented any damage (we looked the turbo over and cut open the oil filter
for a look see just to be sure).
Still need to learn (among other things):
I need to figure out why an engine breather tube can freeze in VMC (I was
never in the clouds at any time from take-off to landing and saw no visible
moisture. I do have the Cleveland double brake conversion which reroutes the
vent from the aluminum tube and via scat tubing down to the lower outside
edge of the well. It probably needs to have an upstresam vent slot cut
somewhere (like my Cessna Cardinal had) or perhaps rerouted into the
exhaust). I need to learn the appropriate power setting for one engine after
everything is stabilized (of course I initially went to full rich, full RPM,
and full throttle on the left engine, but a couple of cylinder CHTs got to
around 440 even with the cowl flaps open - below limits but more than I want
to see). I'll bet that I could have lowered the power some. I need to find
out where rain water can stay in the rudder trim system allowing it to
freeze at altitude (it froze again during the 1 hour flight Saturday at
15,500 from Boise to Hamilton).
The other question:
Do I log this as single engine or multi engine time?
Larry Wokral,
500B
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
Time: 04:15:00 PM PST US
From: "John Vormbaum"
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Sale of My Baby
--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum"
Buddy,
My spirits fell as I read this. You are one of the very few people that I
consider the "glue" that holds the flight group together. I can't imagine
you not flying.....especially with how great you looked last fly-in and the
amount of energy you obviously put forth to get yourself in such good shape.
I will console myself with the knowledge that your beautiful 560E will find
a new home and stay with the flight group.
Whenever & wherever our paths cross, there's always an open seat in my
airplane for you and you can take control for any flights. I'd be proud to
fly with you!
Not to mention, your participation in the group is mandatory. No way are we
going to let you outta this gang!
Looking forward to seeing you at the next fly-in,
/John
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Commander-List: Sale of My Baby
> --> Commander-List message posted by: buddy@cyconenterprises.com
>
> Hey guys,
>
> It is with a very heavy heart that I must announce
> that the FAA has decided that I should give them back my medical due to my
> developing what is known as idiopathic cardiomyopathy, in short a weak
> heart. What this means is that I must sell my toys. I have what I
believe
> is the nicest 560e flying today. I also have an Enstrom helicopter which
> must go. Anyways if anyone would like to see the spec's and pic's of my
> stuff go to cyconenterprises.com and take a peak. I have spoken to Jimbo
> and explained my sad circumstances. I am planning on staying in the
flight
> group and continuing supporting in what ever way I can the tradition of
what
> I feel is the best aircraft every built. Well I'm begining to tear up so
> I'll say bye for now. Stay in touch.
>
>
> H.W."Buddy" Windham
> President
> Cycon Enterprises, Inc.
> Excalibur Contracting, Inc.
> The Windham Companies, Inc.
> L&B Investors, LLC
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1038 (20050326) Information __________
>
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________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
Time: 04:17:56 PM PST US
From: "alh1@juno.com"
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Single Engine flying
--> Commander-List message posted by: "alh1@juno.com"
larry, i am always interested in successful single engine flying. try that in
a cessna cardinal. before i got my commander, i had an engine failure in my bonanza.
i went right away to full power on the second engine, but nothing happened.
fortunately for me there was a road available and no injuries, but that
was it for me and one engine. glad you made it. al hoffman
=== message truncated ===
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 03/27/05 |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Any idea already where in CA the flyin would be?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Farmer" <daniellfarmer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 03/27/05
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer@yahoo.com>
>
> Buddy
> It saddens me to think of you not flying BUD 1. The two of you are a
couple of class acts. Hope to see you at the TC fly ins.
>
> Dan Farmer
> 6369U
>
> Commander-List Digest Server <commander-list-digest@matronics.com> wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-03-27.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-03-27.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Commander-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sun 03/27/05: 16
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 09:03 AM - HAPPY EASTER (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
> 2. 09:15 AM - Re: HAPPY EASTER (Frits Abbing)
> 3. 09:30 AM - Re: HAPPY EASTER (RRamm52@cs.com)
> 4. 10:06 AM - Re: HAPPY EASTER (Jim Addington)
> 5. 02:59 PM - Re: HAPPY EASTER (nico css)
> 6. 03:42 PM - Sale of My Baby (buddy@cyconenterprises.com)
> 7. 03:55 PM - Re: Commander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 03/26/05
(joe@taccapitalgroup.com)
> 8. 04:05 PM - Single Engine flying (Larry Wokral)
> 9. 04:15 PM - Re: Sale of My Baby (John Vormbaum)
> 10. 04:17 PM - Re: Single Engine flying (alh1@juno.com)
> 11. 04:29 PM - Re: Single Engine flying (John Vormbaum)
> 12. 05:24 PM - Re: Sale of My Baby (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
> 13. 05:45 PM - Re: Sale of My Baby (Jim Addington)
> 14. 07:31 PM - Re: Single Engine flying (nico css)
> 15. 07:44 PM - Re: Sale of My Baby (nico css)
> 16. 11:31 PM - Re: Single Engine flying (Tom Fisher)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:03:15 AM PST US
> From: YOURTCFG@aol.com
> Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
>
> HI KIDS.
>
> I just want to wish all of you a Happy Easter! Remember, there is
> no such thing as the Easter bunny. We celebrate this day a risen savior,
> Jesus Christ. He died and was resurrect, today, so that you and I can have
> eternal life basking in the glory of our almighty God, the creator of the
> universe. His sacrifice was our gain. Eternal life WOW!!
> Do you know him?? Are you sure of your salvation?? Where will you
> spent eternity?? I hope it is with me in heaven. May God bless all of you
this
>
> wonderful day
>
> Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
>
> PS I sure hope there are Aero Commander in heaven!! With fuel tanks that
> never go dry!! ;-) jb
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:15:12 AM PST US
> From: Frits Abbing
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Frits Abbing
>
> There is no fuel in heaven, they all fly on air.
> And there is no FAA also, so ......!!!
>
> Happy Easter.
>
>
> --- YOURTCFG@aol.com wrote:
> > --> Commander-List message posted by:
> > YOURTCFG@aol.com
> >
> > HI KIDS.
> >
> > I just want to wish all of you a Happy
> > Easter! Remember, there is
> > no such thing as the Easter bunny. We celebrate
> > this day a risen savior,
> > Jesus Christ. He died and was resurrect, today, so
> > that you and I can have
> > eternal life basking in the glory of our almighty
> > God, the creator of the
> > universe. His sacrifice was our gain. Eternal
> > life WOW!!
> > Do you know him?? Are you sure of your
> > salvation?? Where will you
> > spent eternity?? I hope it is with me in heaven.
> > May God bless all of you this
> > wonderful day
> >
> > Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
> >
> > PS I sure hope there are Aero Commander in heaven!!
> > With fuel tanks that
> > never go dry!! ;-) jb
> >
> >
> >
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:30:32 AM PST US
> From: RRamm52@cs.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com
>
> Amen, Jim
> Happy Easter, All.
> Rob Munro
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:06:45 AM PST US
> From: "Jim Addington"
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington"
>
> Throw me in that briar patch too, no FAA and no fuel problems, really
sounds
> good.
>
> Jim Addington
> N444BD
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> YOURTCFG@aol.com
> Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
>
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
>
> HI KIDS.
>
> I just want to wish all of you a Happy Easter! Remember, there is
> no such thing as the Easter bunny. We celebrate this day a risen savior,
> Jesus Christ. He died and was resurrect, today, so that you and I can have
> eternal life basking in the glory of our almighty God, the creator of the
> universe. His sacrifice was our gain. Eternal life WOW!!
> Do you know him?? Are you sure of your salvation?? Where will you
> spent eternity?? I hope it is with me in heaven. May God bless all of you
> this
> wonderful day
>
> Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
>
> PS I sure hope there are Aero Commander in heaven!! With fuel tanks that
> never go dry!! ;-) jb
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 02:59:10 PM PST US
> From: "nico css"
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css"
>
> Thanks for your testimonies, guys. Not only no fuel required, but Aero
> Commanders that can traverse the stars.
> Praise God from whom all blessings flow.
> Nico
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Addington"
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington"
>
> >
> > Throw me in that briar patch too, no FAA and no fuel problems, really
> sounds
> > good.
> >
> > Jim Addington
> > N444BD
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> > YOURTCFG@aol.com
> > To: commander-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Commander-List: HAPPY EASTER
> >
> >
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
> >
> > HI KIDS.
> >
> > I just want to wish all of you a Happy Easter! Remember, there
> is
> > no such thing as the Easter bunny. We celebrate this day a risen savior,
> > Jesus Christ. He died and was resurrect, today, so that you and I can
> have
> > eternal life basking in the glory of our almighty God, the creator of
the
> > universe. His sacrifice was our gain. Eternal life WOW!!
> > Do you know him?? Are you sure of your salvation?? Where will you
> > spent eternity?? I hope it is with me in heaven. May God bless all of
> you
> > this
> > wonderful day
> >
> > Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
> >
> > PS I sure hope there are Aero Commander in heaven!! With fuel tanks
> that
> > never go dry!! ;-) jb
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:42:30 PM PST US
> From: buddy@cyconenterprises.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Sale of My Baby
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: buddy@cyconenterprises.com
>
> Hey guys,
>
> It is with a very heavy heart that I must announce
> that the FAA has decided that I should give them back my medical due to my
> developing what is known as idiopathic cardiomyopathy, in short a weak
> heart. What this means is that I must sell my toys. I have what I believe
> is the nicest 560e flying today. I also have an Enstrom helicopter which
> must go. Anyways if anyone would like to see the spec's and pic's of my
> stuff go to cyconenterprises.com and take a peak. I have spoken to Jimbo
> and explained my sad circumstances. I am planning on staying in the flight
> group and continuing supporting in what ever way I can the tradition of
what
> I feel is the best aircraft every built. Well I'm begining to tear up so
> I'll say bye for now. Stay in touch.
>
>
> H.W."Buddy" Windham
> President
> Cycon Enterprises, Inc.
> Excalibur Contracting, Inc.
> The Windham Companies, Inc.
> L&B Investors, LLC
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:55:24 PM PST US
> From: joe@taccapitalgroup.com
> Subject: Commander-List: RE: Commander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 03/26/05
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: joe@taccapitalgroup.com
>
>
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Commander-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 03/26/05
> > From: Commander-List Digest Server
> >
> > Date: Sat, March 26, 2005 11:55 pm
> > To: Commander-List Digest List
> >
> > *
> >
> > ==================================================
> > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> > ==================================================
> >
> > Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of
the
> > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> > of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
editor
> > such as Notepad or with a web browser.
> >
> > HTML Version:
> >
> >
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-03-26.html
> >
> > Text Version:
> >
> >
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-03-26.txt
> >
> >
> > ================================================
> > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> > ================================================
> >
> >
> > Commander-List Digest Archive
> > ---
> > Total Messages Posted Sat 03/26/05: 1
> >
> >
> > Today's Message Index:
> > ----------------------
> >
> > 1. 04:46 AM - Fw: seajean flying boat conversion (Avtec2)
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 04:46:24 AM PST US
> > From: "Avtec2"
> > Subject: Commander-List: Fw: seajean flying boat conversion
> >
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Avtec2"
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jean
> > Subject: seajean flying boat conversion
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:05:56 PM PST US
> From: "Larry Wokral"
> Subject: Commander-List: Single Engine flying
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral"
>
> I just had an experience I thought I'd share or get some comments on.
>
> While returning to Montana at 17,500' this last Thursday, my right engine
> started loosing a little MP. Initially, I easily got it back with just a
> little push of the throttle. Within a minute or so of this, it suddenly
> dropped about 10 inches MP, and the engine started to run rough. I still
had
> oil pressure, and the JPI engine scanner didn't send any alarms. I looked
> out the right window, and saw oil all over the nose bowl. I immediately
shut
> it down and feathered the prop.
>
> So here I am VFR (on flight following) at 17,500' above a cloud deck over
> very remote northern Nevada. I got everything stabilized, but I couldn't
get
> any rudder trim. Perhaps with all the rain in Central California while I
was
> there something froze up along the trim cable. The OAT was -25C. I easily
> maintained 16,500' with just the left engine. My GPS said I was near the
> McDermott airport. I've seen it from the air many times when flying my
> Cardinal RG along this same route. It is literally in the middle of
nowhere
> with nothing around. There was at least a 2,000-5,000' thick layer of cold
> clouds between me and it, and it has no instrument approach. I reluctantly
> decided to declare an emergency with ATC. They wanted to vector me into
the
> McDermott strip. My GPS said I was 45 minutes from Boise, so I opted to
> proceed there.
>
> I was at the edge of the Paradise and Owyhee MOAs near V113 where two F15s
> were maneuvering. I had asked Salt Lake Center if Boise Approach had or
> could get any pilot reports of a hole through the clouds anywhere between
me
> and their field. I wasn't looking forward to a single engine IFR approach
> through an unknown thickness of clouds in a plane that I had no single
> engine experience in. They called up the F15s and asked them if they could
> find a hole. Within a couple of minutes, one of the F15s called me on my
> assigned frequency telling me that he was forming up on my left side. I
must
> say that it is pretty cool to see an F15 fairly close in formation with
you.
> He split off to the left and reformed on the right side to see the
feathered
> engine. He was amazed that the entire nacelle and that side of the
> horizontal tail was covered in oil. The other F15 had flown forward to
look
> for a hole. The first one departed, and the second F15 appeared to lead me
> to a hole he had found. I descended making very shallow turns down through
> it. Thankfully the ceiling was over 5,000'.
>
> The rest of the flight to Boise and the landing went well. I was handed
off
> to Boise Approach who kept me all the way through the landing. They were
all
> great to work with. The female controller even already knew about not
> turning into the dead engine when she vectored me for a base entry.
>
> A fire truck followed me along the taxiway until I stopped on an FBO's
ramp.
> When I exited the plane, he handed me a chunk of ice that he saw fall from
> somewhere near the failed right engine. As I began trying to evaluate the
> problem, it occurred to me that the ice probably had come off the
crankcase
> breather. If so, it had probably blocked venting causing a nose seal to
> blow. I found a mechanic that took me in. He spent a couple of hours
> cleaning the engine and looking for the problem. There was still three
> quarts of oil in the crankcase, so, luckily, there was no engine damage.
> When I did a runup, we could see oil coming from the vicinity of the nose
> seal. You can't actually see it because it is behind the prop and hub. Of
> course that was the problem as we confirmed when we removed the prop and
> hub.
>
> We got it all back together with a new nose seal late Friday night. I flew
> it home to Hamilton Montana (6S5) yesterday just a few hours before a new
> storm arrived.
>
> Reflections:
> This airplane (500B) handles well on one engine. The Merlyn Turbo 320
> conversion's claim of a 16K' single engine service ceiling is believable.
> With just me, about 100 lbs of baggage, and about 100 gallons of fuel
> aboard, I could have maintained my 17,000' altitude indefinitely at about
> 120 KIAS. ATC was very professional and ready to devote any effort to the
> problem. The F15s, while not expected, sure were nice to have around. The
> single engine landing wasn't difficult. You CAN taxi with only the left
> engine operating as long as you keep moving. 45-50 minutes takes a lot
> longer to pass when you have one shut down. A little adrenalin
occasionally
> reminds you that you are still alive. Immediately shutting the engine down
> prevented any damage (we looked the turbo over and cut open the oil filter
> for a look see just to be sure).
>
> Still need to learn (among other things):
> I need to figure out why an engine breather tube can freeze in VMC (I was
> never in the clouds at any time from take-off to landing and saw no
visible
> moisture. I do have the Cleveland double brake conversion which reroutes
the
> vent from the aluminum tube and via scat tubing down to the lower outside
> edge of the well. It probably needs to have an upstresam vent slot cut
> somewhere (like my Cessna Cardinal had) or perhaps rerouted into the
> exhaust). I need to learn the appropriate power setting for one engine
after
> everything is stabilized (of course I initially went to full rich, full
RPM,
> and full throttle on the left engine, but a couple of cylinder CHTs got to
> around 440 even with the cowl flaps open - below limits but more than I
want
> to see). I'll bet that I could have lowered the power some. I need to find
> out where rain water can stay in the rudder trim system allowing it to
> freeze at altitude (it froze again during the 1 hour flight Saturday at
> 15,500 from Boise to Hamilton).
>
> The other question:
> Do I log this as single engine or multi engine time?
>
> Larry Wokral,
> 500B
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:15:00 PM PST US
> From: "John Vormbaum"
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Sale of My Baby
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum"
>
> Buddy,
>
> My spirits fell as I read this. You are one of the very few people that I
> consider the "glue" that holds the flight group together. I can't imagine
> you not flying.....especially with how great you looked last fly-in and
the
> amount of energy you obviously put forth to get yourself in such good
shape.
>
> I will console myself with the knowledge that your beautiful 560E will
find
> a new home and stay with the flight group.
>
> Whenever & wherever our paths cross, there's always an open seat in my
> airplane for you and you can take control for any flights. I'd be proud to
> fly with you!
>
> Not to mention, your participation in the group is mandatory. No way are
we
> going to let you outta this gang!
>
> Looking forward to seeing you at the next fly-in,
>
> /John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> Subject: Commander-List: Sale of My Baby
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: buddy@cyconenterprises.com
> >
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > It is with a very heavy heart that I must announce
> > that the FAA has decided that I should give them back my medical due to
my
> > developing what is known as idiopathic cardiomyopathy, in short a weak
> > heart. What this means is that I must sell my toys. I have what I
> believe
> > is the nicest 560e flying today. I also have an Enstrom helicopter which
> > must go. Anyways if anyone would like to see the spec's and pic's of my
> > stuff go to cyconenterprises.com and take a peak. I have spoken to Jimbo
> > and explained my sad circumstances. I am planning on staying in the
> flight
> > group and continuing supporting in what ever way I can the tradition of
> what
> > I feel is the best aircraft every built. Well I'm begining to tear up so
> > I'll say bye for now. Stay in touch.
> >
> >
> > H.W."Buddy" Windham
> > President
> > Cycon Enterprises, Inc.
> > Excalibur Contracting, Inc.
> > The Windham Companies, Inc.
> > L&B Investors, LLC
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.1038 (20050326) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.nod32.com
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.1038 (20050326) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.nod32.com
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:17:56 PM PST US
> From: "alh1@juno.com"
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Single Engine flying
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "alh1@juno.com"
>
>
> larry, i am always interested in successful single engine flying. try that
in
> a cessna cardinal. before i got my commander, i had an engine failure in
my bonanza.
> i went right away to full power on the second engine, but nothing
happened.
> fortunately for me there was a road available and no injuries, but that
> was it for me and one engine. glad you made it. al hoffman
>
>
> === message truncated ===
>
>
Message 15
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--> Commander-List message posted by: Dave <vinophile@yahoo.com>
Was anyone on the list flying around Park City, Utah
on Sunday? I was skiing and a commander came in over
Main Street. I almost hit a tree..
David
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | RE: Single Engine Flying |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral" <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
Guys,
Thanks for the good comments about my recent single engine experience. Yes,
it will now be much more difficult to complain about the increased operating
costs of flying the Commander over my previous Cardinal (three times the
fuel, three times the insurance, at least double the maintenance). As Nico
said, "...nothing can yield a better return on your investment than an
experience like Larry had..." As in Al Hoffman's Bonanza engine out
experience, not much happens when you add power to the "other engine" when
the original one gets quiet in a single. That happened to me in my Cardinal
once during a climb over the Sierra. It was quiet for only 20-30 seconds
when it restarted when I turned the boost pump on. In that case, I probably
had some water in the fuel that burbled through.
As John Vormbaum said: "... there are other (safer) ways to get a closeup of
an F-15 ..." Certainly! I think these "boys on our payroll" enjoyed their
repeated intercepts of me after they were satisfied that all seemed well.
Yes, it was tax dollars well spent - at least in this now even more humble
pilot's opinion.
And, yes, Nico, it was a great outcome. I had planned to get some specific
single engine operation training from an experienced Aerocommander driver
soon. Now after having done it successfully, I feel I just might be able to
sign myself off on a portion of that. What wonderful, safe airplanes these
are.
Larry Wokral
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Frozen Rudder Trim |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral" <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
As I reported earlier, my rudder trim has now frozen up twice while in clear
air and real cold OAT (-25C and -15C). It was parked on the ramp at Stockton
CA during a lot of rain before my departure last Thursday. Perhaps there is
someplace in the cable or hinge system where water is allowed to accumulate
and then freeze at altitude - not a good thing.
Does anyone else have experience with this? What do you all think is he
problem? Has anyone figured out a fix for it?
I had always read that with one shut down the rudder on a Commander can
easily be trimmed allowing you to take your foot off of the rudder. I was
disappointed not to be able to try this.
Thanks,
Larry Wokral
Message 18
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|
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer@charter.net>
Hi Dave...
Wasn't me. However, my folks and sister are moving to Park City next week,
so I'll be pointing my Commander in that direction soon and often (I
hope...). 2 hours and 45 minutes from San Luis Obispo, CA (SBP) to Heber
City Airport...yipppeee. Can't wait.
I'll wave at you on the slopes.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave
Subject: Commander-List: Park City
--> Commander-List message posted by: Dave <vinophile@yahoo.com>
Was anyone on the list flying around Park City, Utah
on Sunday? I was skiing and a commander came in over
Main Street. I almost hit a tree..
David
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Frozen Rudder Trim |
--> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com
Larry,
Every couple of flights, we'll pull one back to zero thrust, and put in a
little rudder trim, engage the autopilot, and let it fly for 10 minutes or so.
Indicates about 140 at 5000.........hardly know one is out.
Rob Munro
In a message dated 3/28/2005 1:50:33 PM Central Standard Time,
l.wokral@ix.netcom.com writes:
> I had always read that with one shut down the rudder on a Commander can
> easily be trimmed allowing you to take your foot off of the rudder. I was
> disappointed not to be able to try this.
>
> Thanks,
> Larry Wokral
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Frozen Rudder Trim |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
Hey Larry, just a thought,
After every rainstorm I have my girl do the "Commander Squat", i.e. I hang
from the tail (I weigh a considerable amount...but hey, it's in proportion
to my height!) to pull the tail down to the ground, then sit on it for a few
minutes while the rainwater drains out of the fuselage. Then I let the
nosewheel back down to the ground and wait a few more minutes while the
remainder drains. If it's been a bad storm, I'll repeat until nothing more
drips out of the drain holes on the bottom.
Then I fly the cr*p out of her to get that airframe COMPLETELY dry. Moisture
is the enemy of metal....must do my part to preserve the airframe :-).
/J
PS: The airframe is easier to tip with 2 people, and easier still with full
tanks.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Single Engine flying |
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 3/27/2005 6:09:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
l.wokral@ix.netcom.com writes:
The other question:
Do I log this as single engine or multi engine time?
ME time. Great job Larry!! jb
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Single Engine flying |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
It's the creme de la creme of ME time, justifying the whole ball of wax.
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Single Engine flying
> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 3/27/2005 6:09:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> l.wokral@ix.netcom.com writes:
>
> The other question:
> Do I log this as single engine or multi engine time?
>
>
> ME time. Great job Larry!! jb
>
>
>
>
>
>
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