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1. 05:52 PM - Phatnoise Connection Success!! (bobbybraun@comcast.net)
2. 08:23 PM - Re: Phatnoise Connection Success!! (Matt Dralle)
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| Subject: | Phatnoise Connection Success!! |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: bobbybraun@comcast.net
Well, I feel that it is safe to announce that I've finally gotten my Phatbox to
work with my system. After installing the XA-C30 multi-changer adapter and my
CD changer all units function exactly as expected. Again, a ton of thanks goes
out to Matt for his support through all this, I never would've gotten this
thing working without all the pointers.
I must also point out that it seems as if the PB is not able to be controlled directly
from the 4000x alone, and seems to need at least a multi-changer adapter
in place and possibly another external unit connected to keep things in check.
All this experimenting has brought another question to mind. Have any of you had
any odd reactions to the scrolling text ability of the C90 and it's CD-Text
capabilities? I've noticed that ever since I've owned my C90 that it's scrolling
capabilities have rarely worked and I always figured it was because of the
software I was using to burn CD-Text CD's and not the fault of the hardware.
However I also noticed the other day when I first hooked up my PB that the scrolling
feature did work, albeit for one song, and since then has gone back to
normal, with the text frozen at the maximum viewable characters shown on the
on screen display.
Has anyone else had any problems with scrolling text on the C90? If so, have
you been able to pinpoint it to any particular issue with program material / equipment
being used? I'm very curious at this point since the Phatbox has so
much material available and full text scrolling would be very helpful for locating
music.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
> --> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Matt Dralle
>
> At 02:50 PM 4/19/2006 Wednesday, you wrote:
> >--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: bobbybraun@comcast.net
> >
> >Well, it seems as if I maybe spoke too soon. My 4000x stops accepting audio
> from the PB as soon as the source is changed (i.e. whenever the Tuner or in dash
> CD is selected). As soon as I go back to the PB as a source, it comes up but
> analog audio will not be played back again unless a different source is plugged
> into the Changer Input of the 4000x. I guess I'm going to have to try
> installing my XA-C30 after all, and see if this fixes the problem... And the
> frustration quickly returns. Grrr!
>
> Well, that's a bummer... For the record, on my installation I am using the
> C30's to switch the Unilink, but I've connected the Phatbox directly up to the
> Changer Analog inputs on the 4000x.
>
> While this might not be related to your problem, I found that there is a huge
> problem with grounding loops between the PB and the 4000x/C90. I had hard
> mounted everything floor pan of my 1998 Chevy truck, and found that the squeal
> from the alternator unbearable. Finally, I mounted the PB to my backbone behind
> the rear seat (wood) with short screws so that it was isolated from the truck's
> chassis and the alternator wine went completely away. FYI.
>
> Also, I found that the PB seems really sensitive to line level cable load
> especially when connected to the 4000x. Possibly because the 4000x has 4 volt
> line level inputs and the PB doesn't? Don't know about that for sure. In any
> case, I used super short (1 meter) top of the line Monster line level cables
> between the PB and the 4k and have had good success. There is still a slight
> attenuation on the bass from the PB, but its not bad. This is detected by
> playing a song from a CD using the Optic output CD Changer into the Optic input
> on the 4x vs. playing the same song through the PB to the 4k using the Analog
> inputs. There is definitely bass roll off with the PB.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
>
>
Well, I feel that it is safe to announce that I've finally gotten my Phatbox to
work with my system. After installing the XA-C30 multi-changer adapter and my
CD changer all units function exactly as expected. Again, a ton of thanks goes
out to Matt for his support through all this, I never would've gotten this thing
working without all the pointers.
I must also point out that it seems as if the PB is not able to be controlled directly
from the 4000x alone, and seems to need at least a multi-changer adapter
in place and possibly another external unit connected to keep things in check.
All this experimenting has brought another question to mind. Have any of you had
any odd reactions to the scrolling text ability of the C90 and it's CD-Text
capabilities? I've noticed that ever since I've owned my C90 that it's scrolling
capabilities have rarely worked and I always figured it was because of the
software I was using to burn CD-Text CD's and not the fault of the hardware. However
I also noticed the other day when I first hooked up my PB that the scrolling
feature did work, albeitfor one song, and since then has goneback to normal,withthe
text frozen at the maximumviewable characters shown on theon screendisplay.
Has anyone else had any problems with scrolling text on the C90?If so, have you
been able to pinpoint it to any particular issue with program material / equipment
being used? I'm very curious at this point since the Phatbox has so much
material available and full text scrolling would be very helpful for locating
music.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Matt Dralle dralle@matronics.com
-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <DRALLE@MATRONICS.COM>
At 02:50 PM 4/19/2006 Wednesday, you wrote:
-- XDP4000X-List message posted by: bobbybraun@comcast.net
Well, it seems as if I maybe spoke too soon. My 4000x stops accepting audio
from the PB as soon as the source is changed (i.e. whenever the Tuner or in dash
CD is selected). As soon as I go back to the PB as a source, it comes up but
analog audio will not be played back again unless a different source is plugged
into the Changer Input of the 4000x. I guess I'm going to have to try
installing my XA-C30 after all, and see if this fixes the problem... And the
frustration quickly returns. Grrr! <B
R>
Well, that's a bummer... For the record, on my installation I am using the
C30's to switch the Unilink, but I've connected the Phatbox directly up to the
Changer Analog inputs on the 4000x.
While this might not be related to your problem, I found that there is a huge
problem with grounding loops between the PB and the 4000x/C90. I had hard
mounted everything floor pan of my 1998 Chevy truck, and found that the squeal
from the alternator unbearable. Finally, I mounted the PB to my backbone behind
the rear seat (wood) with short screws so that it was isolated from the truck's
chassis and the alternator wine went completely away. FYI.
Also, I found that the PB seems really sensitive to line level cable load
especially when connected to the 4000x. Possibly because the 4000x has 4 volt
line level inputs and the PB doesn't? Don't know about that for sure. I
n any
case, I used super short (1 meter) top of the line Monster line level cables
between the PB and the 4k and have had good success. There is still a slight
attenuation on the bass from the PB, but its not bad. This is detected by
playing a song from a CD using the Optic output CD Changer into the Optic input
on the 4x vs. playing the same song through the PB to the 4k using the Analog
inputs. There is definitely bass roll off with the PB.
Matt
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
======
===========================
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Phatnoise Connection Success!! |
--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
At 05:50 PM 4/24/2006 Monday, you wrote:
>--> XDP4000X-List message posted by: bobbybraun@comcast.net
>
>Well, I feel that it is safe to announce that I've finally gotten my Phatbox to
work with my system. After installing the XA-C30 multi-changer adapter and
my CD changer all units function exactly as expected. Again, a ton of thanks
goes out to Matt for his support through all this, I never would've gotten this
thing working without all the pointers.
>
>I must also point out that it seems as if the PB is not able to be controlled
directly from the 4000x alone, and seems to need at least a multi-changer adapter
in place and possibly another external unit connected to keep things in check.
>
>All this experimenting has brought another question to mind. Have any of you
had any odd reactions to the scrolling text ability of the C90 and it's CD-Text
capabilities? I've noticed that ever since I've owned my C90 that it's scrolling
capabilities have rarely worked and I always figured it was because of the
software I was using to burn CD-Text CD's and not the fault of the hardware.
However I also noticed the other day when I first hooked up my PB that the
scrolling feature did work, albeit for one song, and since then has gone back
to normal, with the text frozen at the maximum viewable characters shown on the
on screen display.
>
>Has anyone else had any problems with scrolling text on the C90? If so, have
you been able to pinpoint it to any particular issue with program material /
equipment being used? I'm very curious at this point since the Phatbox has so
much material available and full text scrolling would be very helpful for locating
music.
Great news, Bobby! Glad to hear things are working now. As for your display update
issues, this is a know problem. I actually spent a great deal of time debugging
this problem and presented Phatnoise with the simple protocol solutions
to solve the problem, but to date I have never heard back from any of my three
different emails. I have included the emails below along with links to the
supporting PDF documents which show detailed Unilink protocol breakdowns of
the packets and exactly what the problem is. You should get the latest version
of Adobe Acrobat to make sure you get to see all of the annotations. The discussions
are pretty technical, but explain the problem well. Too bad Phatnoise
didn't spend about 30 minutes making the necessary patches... Might want to
write them and ask... I was fairly disappointed that I put that much work into
finding the problem only to not hear anything back from them. By the way,
the Unilink protocol decodes show below are from a program I wrote that runs
on an embedded 8051-based microcontroller. Data and decodes are output via an
RS232 port. Plugs into a free Unilink port and emulates either a CD Changer
or MD Changer Slave device.
Matt Dralle
================================================================================
MESSAGE 1
>Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 13:22:59 -0700
>To: "Mike Woo" <mwoo@phatnoise.com>
>From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>Subject: Track Display Doesn't Show Complete Data...
>
>Hi Mike,
>
>When in Track display, if I use any of the Disc advance keys such as +-1, +-5,
or +-25 the resulting Track data will only be the first two packets of available
data which is 6 bytes (first packet) + 7 bytes (second) packet or 13 bytes
total. Most of the time, my Track info is much longer than 13 bytes because
I use PMM to encode the track number, track name, artist, album, and year all
into the track field.
>
>The issue is also present when in Shuffle mode. Pressing the Scroll button also
doesn't cause the rest of the data to be displayed. Also, pressing the Display
button, or the List button doesn't yield the reset of the Track display.
>
>On the other hand, if the track is selected using the >>| button on the remote
(next track/previous track), or the song is just naturally selected in sequence
order, then the full Track data is available for display, although the Scroll
button must be pressed to get the display to scroll through the rest of the
data.
>
>It seems that the problem is related to the lack of NULL termination and also
the non-response to the Display's request for additional Parts of the Track data.
The solution is to simply transmit all of the packets required to send the
complete Track, and to NULL terminate the string. There also appears to be
an issue with a lack of response to Display requests for additional Track Parts.
>
>It appears that the Disc information also is not being NULL terminated.
>
>Please let me know if you have any questions.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/xdp4000x/PhatboxUnilink/Phatbox%20-%20Track%20Display%20-%20+25%20Button%20Pressed.pdf
>
>
>Matt Dralle
================================================================================
MESSAGE 2
>Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:35:49 -0700
>To: "Mike Woo" <mwoo@phatnoise.com>
>From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>Subject: Phatbox Disc Display Update Issue - Solution...
>
>Hi Mike,
>
>I've solved the issue with the Disc information not updating correctly if the
Disc number doesn't change. This can occur, for example, when the Shuffle mode
is on. Since I almost exclusively use the shuffle mode, a lot of the time I
have bogus disc information on the display since there's a 1 in 10 chance the
disc number won't change (but actual disc will).
>
>In any case, I've included two packet dumps in PDF illustrating what is going
on and how to fix it. The PDFs should have a bunch of mark ups on the with arrows
and text boxes, etc. If not, go get the latest version of Adobe Acrobat
Reader.
>
>In a nutshell, the High NIB of D2_5 has Disc number in DEC. Setting it to 0xFx
in a 0xC0 Status command will Blank the Disc display, but is also considered
a "different" disc. Follow immediately with another 0xC0 Status with the correct
Disc number. The Disc number field on the Display will flash, but looks
like its suppose to. Follow the second 0xC0 Status with the usual Disc/Track/Artist
information.
>
>I have also identified an issue with the way the Phatbox is doing Track display,
but will send that in a separate email.
>
>Please let me know if you have any questions.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/xdp4000x/PhatboxUnilink/Phatbox%20-%20Disc%20Display%20-%20Disc%2010%20Track%201%20-%20Display%20Shows%20819-Mary%20Black%20BUT%20SHOULD%20SHOW%20950-Quarterflash1.pdf
>
> http://www.matronics.com/xdp4000x/PhatboxUnilink/How%20to%20Force%20Disc%20Display%20Updates%20on%20Disc%20Change1.pdf
>
>Matt Dralle
================================================================================
MESSAGE 3
>Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:03:41 -0700
>To: "Mike Woo" <mwoo@phatnoise.com>
>From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>Subject: Disc and Track Listing Function...
>
>Hi Mike,
>
>There had been some discussion over the Disc and Track List function back a while
ago and I had noticed that Track Listing function specifically wasn't working.
I've decoded all of the Disc and Track Listing packets and necessary sequences
and included them in two notated PDF files included. It doesn't look like
the Phatbox has implemented Disc or Track Listing, although the Disc listing
is somewhat available because the C90 will use non-disc-listing packets (0xC6/0xD6/0xCD)
to update the Disc Listing Display in a pinch. It would be very
sweet to have Track Listing information available from the Phatbox.
>
>Please let me know if you have any questions.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/xdp4000x/PhatboxUnilink/C90%20and%20CDX-848X%20Disc%20Listing.pdf
>
> http://www.matronics.com/xdp4000x/PhatboxUnilink/C90%20and%20CDX-848X%20Track%20Listing.pdf
>
>Matt Dralle
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
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