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EFIS Comparisons

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gmvouga(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:03 pm Post subject: EFIS Comparisons

Hi all,



I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to decide which 

one to put in my RV-7A.  I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but 

frankly, the company scares the hell out of me.  I've even heard of several 

new systems that have come to market (or are about to) over the last year.  

I'd like to put together a comparison of features to help me with my 

decision.  Has anyone already done this?  If you already have a spreadsheet 

that you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate it.



Thanks,

Greg

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jan.de.jong(at)xs4all.nl
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:07 am Post subject: EFIS Comparisons

I'm not at that stage yet and don't have a spreadsheet.

I would like to mention what I think is the most important feature of 

all: is it failsafe.

Will it tell you when a function is not working? Or will it lie to you?

The more useful a function the more you rely on it. The more you rely on 

it the greater the danger.

The failsafe feature involves the crosschecking of built-in redundancy 

and must have been designed in from the beginning.

The alternative is to supply both the redundancy and the monitoring 

externally yourself - increasing cost, workload.and insecurity.

Good luck.

Jan de Jong



Greg Vouga wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hi all,



I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to decide which 

one to put in my RV-7A.  I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but 

frankly, the company scares the hell out of me.  I've even heard of several 

new systems that have come to market (or are about to) over the last year.  

I'd like to put together a comparison of features to help me with my 

decision.  Has anyone already done this?  If you already have a spreadsheet 

that you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate it.



Thanks,

Greg

- The Matronics Avionics-List Email Forum -

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gmvouga(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:30 am Post subject: EFIS Comparisons

I agree, reliability is definitely going to weigh in on my decision.

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong(at)xs4all.nl>

Reply-To: avionics-list(at)matronics.com

To: avionics-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: EFIS Comparisons

Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:08:52 +0100

I'm not at that stage yet and don't have a spreadsheet.

I would like to mention what I think is the most important feature of

all: is it failsafe.

Will it tell you when a function is not working? Or will it lie to you?

The more useful a function the more you rely on it. The more you rely on

it the greater the danger.

The failsafe feature involves the crosschecking of built-in redundancy

and must have been designed in from the beginning.

The alternative is to supply both the redundancy and the monitoring

externally yourself - increasing cost, workload.and insecurity.

Good luck.

Jan de Jong

Greg Vouga wrote:

 >

 >

 >Hi all,

 >

 >I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to decide 

which

 >one to put in my RV-7A.  I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but

 >frankly, the company scares the hell out of me.  I've even heard of 

several

 >new systems that have come to market (or are about to) over the last 

year.

 >I'd like to put together a comparison of features to help me with my

 >decision.  Has anyone already done this?  If you already have a 

spreadsheet

 >that you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate it.

 >

 >Thanks,

 >Greg

 >

 >

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mlas(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: EFIS Comparisons

Greg,



I have used most of the systems out there from the Dynon up to the

Honeywell systems.  The system I settled on was the Chilton EFIS with a

Blue Mountain EFIS G-3 Lite as a backup.  I also incorporated the

Trutrak Gyro stabilized Sorcerer autopilot as a standalone gyro

platform.  



The reason for the Chilton was all the functions with the history of

reliability and customer satisfaction.  I can't understate the number of

functions in the Chilton; here are a few that I thought were very

important.  First the Chilton has full flight management including

Stars, Sid, Jet airways and Victor airways.  It has every runway

approach and is very easy to use.  For the VFR pilot this may not be

very important but for the IFR pilot no other EFIS comes close in the

price range.  Another function is the ground mapping with obstacles,

these days more and more EFIS systems are offering this function but the

Chilton offers an additional feature, it has a terrain warning system

like the ground proximity on the airliners and transport aircraft.  So

if you are running around and something pops up in front of you, you

will get a voice and visual command to pull up.  This function is worth

its weight in gold if you fly in poor weather or at night.  The Chilton

also offers full flight director function, full digital autopilot

integration with the Trutrak line, satellite weather, TIS traffic

warning, Storm Scope function, a performance gliding function which give

you information for gliding distance in the event of an engine failure.

This function is dynamic in that it corrects for wind, direction of

travel and height above terrain.  The Chilton is also scaleable, you can

add as much redundancy as you can afford.  You could have up to four

gyros, GPS's, and Air Data Computer if you wanted making it a standalone

system.  The down side is cost.  The basic two screen system with most

of the function listed above is around $27,000.



On to the Dynon, I have flown behind this unit in several aircraft.  At

face value for the price it is a good unit.  I have not had a failure

and it seems to perform good to fair.  Sometimes it does strange things

in Yaw and Roll but seems to be stable overall.  As far as the engine

monitor system I think it is a waste of money, there are many other

unites out their that are better and more readable such as the Grand

Rapids, Advanced Flight Systems AF-2500 (great unit), or the I-K

Technologies AIM-3000 or 4000.  I would not consider the Dynon as a

primary for IFR but it would make a good backup or VFR unit.



The unit that I liked better then the Dynon for simple operations was

the Blue Mountain EFIS.  On function that put the BM above the Dynon is

it's intergraded Nav GPS function.  For a few hundred bucks you also get

a GPS with map and also a Nav interface for LOC/GS interface.  The

performance of the small G3 over the old Lite is much improved.  It is

on par with the Dynon for rates and stability, whereas the older unit

was a boat anchor.  The EFIS one from BM is nice but it is pricey for

what you get.  You have a unit that is not stand alone and never well be

with no flight management function.  So it is a VFR navigator only.  One

other thing to mention is that bigger is not always better, I fly an

Airbus to fund my small airplane interests and it has a smaller screen

then the BM.  What I'm trying to say is that the BM looks good but

wastes precious panel space with the very large screen.



On to OP Technologies, from what I have seen this is a good unit that

has many functions of the Chilton for less money and they put it on your

choice of different size screens.  I have briefly flown behind this unit

and find that it seems to work very well.  The only issues I have heard

from owners is they are still teething with the software.



The Grand Rapids Technologies units are also a good choice for the

money.  They have a little less on the function and the glitter but work

very well.  I would say the GRT stability and reliability is almost on

par with the Chilton.  The GRT is a little cruder but works very well.

A little note is that GRT has been making units for different companies

and has been in the business of Avionics for a long time, so they have a

good track record.



And lastly is Avidyne, very pricey but works well and like the Chilton

has a certified version.  My personal opinion is that like Gamin the

Avidyne is not very ergonomic and can be difficult to use intuitively,

all and all very stable and reliable.

Mike 

--

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cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:37 am Post subject: EFIS Comparisons

Greg,



Chuck Jensen



Greg,



Mike's summary of the features and relative merits of the individual

company's (a VERY important instrument feature) as well as the dollar

value of each seems reasonably accurate and comprehensive.



I too canvassed the features of each of the listed units, though I did

not have the same operating experience as Mike.  I came to the

conclusion that GRT EFIS represented the best value for high

reliability, excellent feature set and unquestioned company credibility.

After a few hundred hours of flying the dual GRT EFIS and TruTrak GSVS

A/P, I have nothing but satisfaction to report.  Yes, the resolution on

the GRT screen is a bit low, but for PFD and engine information

purposes, its more than accurate.  Depicting weather and terrain may

suffer a little, but unless you're a Freight Dog or fly a lot of heavy

IFR in heavy traffic area (i.e. if you flight plan Newark, NJ) you will

find it very satisfactory.  Not quite as polished as the Chilton, but

then, you can buy a lot of avgas with the $17,000 difference.



Chuck

Velocity XLRG






Greg,



I have used most of the systems out there from the Dynon up to the

Honeywell systems.  The system I settled on was the Chilton EFIS with a

Blue Mountain EFIS G-3 Lite as a backup.  I also incorporated the

Trutrak Gyro stabilized Sorcerer autopilot as a standalone gyro

platform.  



The reason for the Chilton was all the functions with the history of

reliability and customer satisfaction.  I can't understate the number of

functions in the Chilton; here are a few that I thought were very

important.  First the Chilton has full flight management including

Stars, Sid, Jet airways and Victor airways.  It has every runway

approach and is very easy to use.  For the VFR pilot this may not be

very important but for the IFR pilot no other EFIS comes close in the

price range.  Another function is the ground mapping with obstacles,

these days more and more EFIS systems are offering this function but the

Chilton offers an additional feature, it has a terrain warning system

like the ground proximity on the airliners and transport aircraft.  So

if you are running around and something pops up in front of you, you

will get a voice and visual command to pull up.  This function is worth

its weight in gold if you fly in poor weather or at night.  The Chilton

also offers full flight director function, full digital autopilot

integration with the Trutrak line, satellite weather, TIS traffic

warning, Storm Scope function, a performance gliding function which give

you information for gliding distance in the event of an engine failure.

This function is dynamic in that it corrects for wind, direction of

travel and height above terrain.  The Chilton is also scaleable, you can

add as much redundancy as you can afford.  You could have up to four

gyros, GPS's, and Air Data Computer if you wanted making it a standalone

system.  The down side is cost.  The basic two screen system with most

of the function listed above is around $27,000.



On to the Dynon, I have flown behind this unit in several aircraft.  At

face value for the price it is a good unit.  I have not had a failure

and it seems to perform good to fair.  Sometimes it does strange things

in Yaw and Roll but seems to be stable overall.  As far as the engine

monitor system I think it is a waste of money, there are many other

unites out their that are better and more readable such as the Grand

Rapids, Advanced Flight Systems AF-2500 (great unit), or the I-K

Technologies AIM-3000 or 4000.  I would not consider the Dynon as a

primary for IFR but it would make a good backup or VFR unit.



The unit that I liked better then the Dynon for simple operations was

the Blue Mountain EFIS.  On function that put the BM above the Dynon is

it's intergraded Nav GPS function.  For a few hundred bucks you also get

a GPS with map and also a Nav interface for LOC/GS interface.  The

performance of the small G3 over the old Lite is much improved.  It is

on par with the Dynon for rates and stability, whereas the older unit

was a boat anchor.  The EFIS one from BM is nice but it is pricey for

what you get.  You have a unit that is not stand alone and never well be

with no flight management function.  So it is a VFR navigator only.  One

other thing to mention is that bigger is not always better, I fly an

Airbus to fund my small airplane interests and it has a smaller screen

then the BM.  What I'm trying to say is that the BM looks good but

wastes precious panel space with the very large screen.



On to OP Technologies, from what I have seen this is a good unit that

has many functions of the Chilton for less money and they put it on your

choice of different size screens.  I have briefly flown behind this unit

and find that it seems to work very well.  The only issues I have heard

from owners is they are still teething with the software.



The Grand Rapids Technologies units are also a good choice for the

money.  They have a little less on the function and the glitter but work

very well.  I would say the GRT stability and reliability is almost on

par with the Chilton.  The GRT is a little cruder but works very well.

A little note is that GRT has been making units for different companies

and has been in the business of Avionics for a long time, so they have a

good track record.



And lastly is Avidyne, very pricey but works well and like the Chilton

has a certified version.  My personal opinion is that like Gamin the

Avidyne is not very ergonomic and can be difficult to use intuitively,

all and all very stable and reliable.

Mike

- The Matronics Avionics-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Avionics-List

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:05 am Post subject: EFIS Comparisons

You guys and you're "Chiltons".  I use those for fixing

my truck.  But for flying, I'm planning instead to use

my "Cheltons".



http://www.chelton.com/comp/company_profile.asp?companyid=12

http://www.d2av.com/



<all in good fun...and to help keep the archives full of

proper search terms>



Tim Olson -- RV-10  #40170

DO NOT ARCHIVE

Chuck Jensen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Greg,

 

 

 

 Chuck Jensen

 

 Greg,

 

 Mike's summary of the features and relative merits of the individual

 company's (a VERY important instrument feature) as well as the dollar

 value of each seems reasonably accurate and comprehensive.

 

 I too canvassed the features of each of the listed units, though I did

 not have the same operating experience as Mike.  I came to the

 conclusion that GRT EFIS represented the best value for high

 reliability, excellent feature set and unquestioned company credibility.

 

 

 After a few hundred hours of flying the dual GRT EFIS and TruTrak GSVS

 A/P, I have nothing but satisfaction to report.  Yes, the resolution on

 the GRT screen is a bit low, but for PFD and engine information

 purposes, its more than accurate.  Depicting weather and terrain may

 suffer a little, but unless you're a Freight Dog or fly a lot of heavy

 IFR in heavy traffic area (i.e. if you flight plan Newark, NJ) you will

 find it very satisfactory.  Not quite as polished as the Chilton, but

 then, you can buy a lot of avgas with the $17,000 difference.

 

 Chuck

 Velocity XLRG

 

 

 

 Greg,

 

 I have used most of the systems out there from the Dynon up to the

 Honeywell systems.  The system I settled on was the Chilton EFIS with a

 Blue Mountain EFIS G-3 Lite as a backup.  I also incorporated the

 Trutrak Gyro stabilized Sorcerer autopilot as a standalone gyro

 platform.  

 

 The reason for the Chilton was all the functions with the history of

 reliability and customer satisfaction.  I can't understate the number of

 functions in the Chilton; here are a few that I thought were very

 important.  First the Chilton has full flight management including

 Stars, Sid, Jet airways and Victor airways.  It has every runway

 approach and is very easy to use.  For the VFR pilot this may not be

 very important but for the IFR pilot no other EFIS comes close in the

 price range.  Another function is the ground mapping with obstacles,

 these days more and more EFIS systems are offering this function but the

 Chilton offers an additional feature, it has a terrain warning system

 like the ground proximity on the airliners and transport aircraft.  So

 if you are running around and something pops up in front of you, you

 will get a voice and visual command to pull up.  This function is worth

 its weight in gold if you fly in poor weather or at night.  The Chilton

 also offers full flight director function, full digital autopilot

 integration with the Trutrak line, satellite weather, TIS traffic

 warning, Storm Scope function, a performance gliding function which give

 you information for gliding distance in the event of an engine failure.

 This function is dynamic in that it corrects for wind, direction of

 travel and height above terrain.  The Chilton is also scaleable, you can

 add as much redundancy as you can afford.  You could have up to four

 gyros, GPS's, and Air Data Computer if you wanted making it a standalone

 system.  The down side is cost.  The basic two screen system with most

 of the function listed above is around $27,000.

 

 On to the Dynon, I have flown behind this unit in several aircraft.  At

 face value for the price it is a good unit.  I have not had a failure

 and it seems to perform good to fair.  Sometimes it does strange things

 in Yaw and Roll but seems to be stable overall.  As far as the engine

 monitor system I think it is a waste of money, there are many other

 unites out their that are better and more readable such as the Grand

 Rapids, Advanced Flight Systems AF-2500 (great unit), or the I-K

 Technologies AIM-3000 or 4000.  I would not consider the Dynon as a

 primary for IFR but it would make a good backup or VFR unit.

 

 The unit that I liked better then the Dynon for simple operations was

 the Blue Mountain EFIS.  On function that put the BM above the Dynon is

 it's intergraded Nav GPS function.  For a few hundred bucks you also get

 a GPS with map and also a Nav interface for LOC/GS interface.  The

 performance of the small G3 over the old Lite is much improved.  It is

 on par with the Dynon for rates and stability, whereas the older unit

 was a boat anchor.  The EFIS one from BM is nice but it is pricey for

 what you get.  You have a unit that is not stand alone and never well be

 with no flight management function.  So it is a VFR navigator only.  One

 other thing to mention is that bigger is not always better, I fly an

 Airbus to fund my small airplane interests and it has a smaller screen

 then the BM.  What I'm trying to say is that the BM looks good but

 wastes precious panel space with the very large screen.

 

 On to OP Technologies, from what I have seen this is a good unit that

 has many functions of the Chilton for less money and they put it on your

 choice of different size screens.  I have briefly flown behind this unit

 and find that it seems to work very well.  The only issues I have heard

 from owners is they are still teething with the software.

 

 The Grand Rapids Technologies units are also a good choice for the

 money.  They have a little less on the function and the glitter but work

 very well.  I would say the GRT stability and reliability is almost on

 par with the Chilton.  The GRT is a little cruder but works very well.

 A little note is that GRT has been making units for different companies

 and has been in the business of Avionics for a long time, so they have a

 good track record.

 

 And lastly is Avidyne, very pricey but works well and like the Chilton

 has a certified version.  My personal opinion is that like Gamin the

 Avidyne is not very ergonomic and can be difficult to use intuitively,

 all and all very stable and reliable.

 

 

 Mike

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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LarryRosen(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: EFIS Comparisons

But not when you put Do No Archive in the post.



Larry Rosen

All in Good fun 



Tim wrote:

..

<all in good fun...and to help keep the archives full of

 	  Quote: 	
		   proper search terms>

 

 Tim Olson -- RV-10  #40170

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

- The Matronics Avionics-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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