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Curing of Flying Surfaces

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tonyvaccarella

Joined: 10 Sep 2014
Posts: 68
Location: Australia

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:08 am Post subject: Curing of Flying Surfaces

Hello all,



I'm the owner of a conventional tailwheel aircraft I purchased from the USA. This project was started in 1999 and still being built 



Not that Im near the finished stage yet but while reading the Builders Manual about finishing the aircraft it states 



" The first thing that you need to do with your flying surfaces is port cure them at a temperature between 40-50 deg C. This will improve their strength and cook off any remaining volatiles and moisture withing the epoxy system. "



Just wondering how builders have managed to do this. What equipment that have used and how they have controlled the temperature. What is our opinion about doing this on "old" wings that were completed in about year 2000.



I look forward to your comments



Regards,

Tony Vaccarella

Sydney

Australia

_________________
Tony Vaccarella
Mascot NSW 2020
Sydney Australia

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:35 am Post subject: Curing of Flying Surfaces

Tony

I was originally daunted by this but it's actually easy.  I bought some 1mx1m expanded polystyrene and built box/oven 1 x 1 x 2.    this was enough for my foam  flying surfaces flaps, horizontal stab, ailerons.

I used ordinary fan heaters inside the oven and removed the standard thermostat and replaced it with a thermostat from Aircraft spruce calibrated to 40C i think.

I but a baffle in front of the of the fan to ensure that there was no local concentration of heat.

I used a couple of meat thermomenters punched through the polystyrene to monitor the temperature.



Once i worked it out it was a couple of hours to do the job.   

Will



William Daniell



LONGPORT

+57 310 295 0744



 

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 5:08 AM, tonyvaccarella <tony(at)weimagine.com.au (tony(at)weimagine.com.au)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "tonyvaccarella" <tony(at)weimagine.com.au (tony(at)weimagine.com.au)>

 

 Hello all,

 

 I'm the owner of a conventional tailwheel aircraft I purchased from the USA. This project was started in 1999 and still being built 

 

 Not that Im near the finished stage yet but while reading the Builders Manual about finishing the aircraft it states

 

 " The first thing that you need to do with your flying surfaces is port cure them at a temperature between 40-50 deg C. This will improve their strength and cook off any remaining volatiles and moisture withing the epoxy system. "

 

 Just wondering how builders have managed to do this. What equipment that have used and how they have controlled the temperature. What is our opinion about doing this on "old" wings that were completed in about year 2000.

 

 I look forward to your comments

 

 Regards,

 Tony Vaccarella

 Sydney

 Australia

 

 --------

 Tony Vaccarella

 Mascot NSW 2020

 Sydney Australia

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457901#457901

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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pete(at)lawless.info
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:05 am Post subject: Curing of Flying Surfaces

Hi Tony

     

     I used the exact same method as William.  We happened to have a     couple of domestic extractor fans left over from a job and I added     those in the oven to make sure the air got well swirled about and     there were no local hot spots.

     

     Regards

     

     Pete

     G-RMAC Classic #109

     

     On 08/07/16 14:33, William Daniell       wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                  Tony

         

         

         I           was originally daunted by this but it's actually easy.  I           bought some 1mx1m expanded polystyrene and built box/oven 1 x           1 x 2.    this was enough for my foam  flying surfaces flaps,           horizontal stab, ailerons.

         

         

         I           used ordinary fan heaters inside the oven and removed the           standard thermostat and replaced it with a thermostat from           Aircraft spruce calibrated to 40C i think.

         

         

         I           but a baffle in front of the of the fan to ensure that there           was no local concentration of heat.

         

         

                    I used a couple of meat             thermomenters punched through the polystyrene to monitor the             temperature.

           

           

         

         Once           i worked it out it was a couple of hours to do the job.   

         

         

         Will

         

         

         

         

       

                                                       William Daniell

               

               LONGPORT

               +57 310 295 0744

             

           

         

         

         On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 5:08 AM,           tonyvaccarella <tony(at)weimagine.com.au (tony(at)weimagine.com.au)>           wrote:

            	  Quote: 	
		  -->             Europa-List message posted by: "tonyvaccarella" <[url=mailto:tony(at)weimagine.com.au]tony(at)weimagine.com.au (tony(at)weimagine.com.au)[/url]>

             

             Hello all,

             

             I'm the owner of a conventional tailwheel aircraft I             purchased from the USA. This project was started in 1999 and             still being built 

             

             Not that Im near the finished stage yet but while reading             the Builders Manual about finishing the aircraft it states

             

             " The first thing that you need to do with your flying             surfaces is port cure them at a temperature between 40-50             deg C. This will improve their strength and cook off any             remaining volatiles and moisture withing the epoxy system. "

             

             Just wondering how builders have managed to do this. What             equipment that have used and how they have controlled the             temperature. What is our opinion about doing this on "old"             wings that were completed in about year 2000.

             

             I look forward to your comments

             

             Regards,

             Tony Vaccarella

             Sydney

             Australia

             

             --------

             Tony Vaccarella

             Mascot NSW 2020

             Sydney Australia

             

             

             

             

             Read this topic online here:

             

             http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457901#457901

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

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tonyvaccarella

Joined: 10 Sep 2014
Posts: 68
Location: Australia

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Curing of Flying Surfaces

Thanks for the reply.



My problem is (my challenge is) that I have the old classic wing and need to put the entire wing in the hot box. Despite the size, do you consider the principle the same?



Many thanks once again.



Regards,

Tony

_________________
Tony Vaccarella
Mascot NSW 2020
Sydney Australia

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:15 am Post subject: Curing of Flying Surfaces

When I ask the question a while back some guys who lived in hot countries mentioned that they had built a tent out of black plastic if that helps



William Daniell



LONGPORT

+57 310 295 0744



 

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 9:45 AM, tonyvaccarella <tony(at)weimagine.com.au (tony(at)weimagine.com.au)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "tonyvaccarella" <tony(at)weimagine.com.au (tony(at)weimagine.com.au)>

 

 Thanks for the reply.

 

 My problem is (my challenge is) that I have the old classic wing and need to put the entire wing in the hot box. Despite the size, do you consider the principle the same?

 

 Many thanks once again.

 

 Regards,

 Tony

 

 --------

 Tony Vaccarella

 Mascot NSW 2020

 Sydney Australia

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457918#457918

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 WIKI -

 errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ===========

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 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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ptag.dev(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:47 am Post subject: Curing of Flying Surfaces

Hi! Will and Tony,

Concerning curing of the Europa.

I notice that it is being suggested that a cure time of possibly two hours was likely.

May I respectfully advise that if you have an aircraft that is glass fibre reinforced with resins laid over polystyrene you need to very slowly increase the heat soak or you will have the polystyrene expand faster than the glass and burst through the construction making you a very unhappy bunny ! Likewise the cooling down cycle needs similar treatment.

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG .

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell

Sent: 08 July 2016 14:34

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Curing of Flying Surfaces



 

Tony



 



I was originally daunted by this but it's actually easy.  I bought some 1mx1m expanded polystyrene and built box/oven 1 x 1 x 2.    this was enough for my foam  flying surfaces flaps, horizontal stab, ailerons.



 



I used ordinary fan heaters inside the oven and removed the standard thermostat and replaced it with a thermostat from Aircraft spruce calibrated to 40C i think.



 



I but a baffle in front of the of the fan to ensure that there was no local concentration of heat.



 



I used a couple of meat thermomenters punched through the polystyrene to monitor the temperature.



 

Once i worked it out it was a couple of hours to do the job.   



 



Will



 



 



William Daniell



LONGPORT

+57 310 295 0744





 

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 5:08 AM, tonyvaccarella <tony(at)weimagine.com.au (tony(at)weimagine.com.au)> wrote:

--> Europa-List message posted by: "tonyvaccarella" <tony(at)weimagine.com.au (tony(at)weimagine.com.au)>



Hello all,



I'm the owner of a conventional tailwheel aircraft I purchased from the USA. This project was started in 1999 and still being built 



Not that Im near the finished stage yet but while reading the Builders Manual about finishing the aircraft it states



" The first thing that you need to do with your flying surfaces is port cure them at a temperature between 40-50 deg C. This will improve their strength and cook off any remaining volatiles and moisture withing the epoxy system. "



Just wondering how builders have managed to do this. What equipment that have used and how they have controlled the temperature. What is our opinion about doing this on "old" wings that were completed in about year 2000.



I look forward to your comments



Regards,

Tony Vaccarella

Sydney

Australia



--------

Tony Vaccarella

Mascot NSW 2020

Sydney Australia





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457901#457901



===========

pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

===========

FORUMS -

eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

===========

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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

===========

b Site -

          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

===========

tonyvaccarella

Joined: 10 Sep 2014
Posts: 68
Location: Australia

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Curing of Flying Surfaces

Hi William,



That would certainly do it here in Sydney Australia. Thanks for the food for thought.



Regards,

Tony

_________________
Tony Vaccarella
Mascot NSW 2020
Sydney Australia

pete(at)lawless.info
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:10 am Post subject: Curing of Flying Surfaces

Tony my hot box was big enough to take the complete classic wing.  I did 

three sessions,  one for each wing and one for all the other bits.



Pete



PS Can't you just wait for the summer and turn the aircon off in the 

workshop?



On 08/07/16 15:45, tonyvaccarella wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks for the reply.



 My problem is (my challenge is) that I have the old classic wing and need to put the entire wing in the hot box. Despite the size, do you consider the principle the same?



 Many thanks once again.



 Regards,

 Tony



 --------

 Tony Vaccarella

 Mascot NSW 2020

 Sydney Australia





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457918#457918

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:14 am Post subject: Curing of Flying Surfaces

Bob

well i didn't know that and all went well so I guess I got lucky either that or the ambient temp here is sufficient.

Tony you can find a pic of my oven in the photos on my website under phots "the Oven"

https://sites.google.com/site/europaconstructionwd/



Will



William Daniell



LONGPORT

+57 310 295 0744



 

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Bob Harrison <ptag.dev(at)talktalk.net (ptag.dev(at)talktalk.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Hi! Will and Tony,

Concerning curing of the Europa.

I notice that it is being suggested that a cure time of possibly two hours was likely.

May I respectfully advise that if you have an aircraft that is glass fibre reinforced with resins laid over polystyrene you need to very slowly increase the heat soak or you will have the polystyrene expand faster than the glass and burst through the construction making you a very unhappy bunny ! Likewise the cooling down cycle needs similar treatment.

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG .

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of William Daniell

Sent: 08 July 2016 14:34

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: Curing of Flying Surfaces



 

Tony



 



I was originally daunted by this but it's actually easy.  I bought some 1mx1m expanded polystyrene and built box/oven 1 x 1 x 2.    this was enough for my foam  flying surfaces flaps, horizontal stab, ailerons.



 



I used ordinary fan heaters inside the oven and removed the standard thermostat and replaced it with a thermostat from Aircraft spruce calibrated to 40C i think.



 



I but a baffle in front of the of the fan to ensure that there was no local concentration of heat.



 



I used a couple of meat thermomenters punched through the polystyrene to monitor the temperature.



 

Once i worked it out it was a couple of hours to do the job.   



 



Will



 



 



William Daniell



LONGPORT

+57 310 295 0744





 

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 5:08 AM, tonyvaccarella <tony(at)weimagine.com.au (tony(at)weimagine.com.au)> wrote:

--> Europa-List message posted by: "tonyvaccarella" <tony(at)weimagine.com.au (tony(at)weimagine.com.au)>



Hello all,



I'm the owner of a conventional tailwheel aircraft I purchased from the USA. This project was started in 1999 and still being built 



Not that Im near the finished stage yet but while reading the Builders Manual about finishing the aircraft it states



" The first thing that you need to do with your flying surfaces is port cure them at a temperature between 40-50 deg C. This will improve their strength and cook off any remaining volatiles and moisture withing the epoxy system. "



Just wondering how builders have managed to do this. What equipment that have used and how they have controlled the temperature. What is our opinion about doing this on "old" wings that were completed in about year 2000.



I look forward to your comments



Regards,

Tony Vaccarella

Sydney

Australia



--------

Tony Vaccarella

Mascot NSW 2020

Sydney Australia





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457901#457901



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spcialeffects

Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 306
Location: Kent

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Curing of Flying Surfaces

Hi Tony. I did what Bob said and slowly increased the temperature kept it at 50 degrees for about 16 hours then turned off the heaters and left it covered up for about another 10 hours. I too have classic wing and baked everything at once.

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Richard Lamprey

Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 95
Location: Kenya

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:42 am Post subject: Re: Curing of Flying Surfaces

Hi Tony,

My Classic (no 168), which I built in Kenya, was the first complete kit (Stages 1,2,3,4) sold by Europe, and as such was airfreighted to Kenya in a long 18' wooden box.  For the curing, I reconstructed the box, covered the inner surfaces with thin expanded foam, put in the wings (later fuselage), and left it out in the Kenya sun for 5 days and nights.  Temp outside daytime was 28 C, 18 C night-time, inside the box during day up to 43 C.  Cured fine.  Best, Richard

Classic Kenya, monowheel, 912 ULS, reg 5Y-LRY, 650 hours

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:40 am Post subject: Curing of Flying Surfaces

Tony,



Been away on a short vacation via my Europa.  You need to finish to enjoy the flying!



Anyway, go to http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=60876 to see what I did to cure my surfaces.  I used two fairly small electric space heaters, one placed low on one end and one placed high on the other.  I used an electronic thermometer with two inputs so I could monitor the heat in two locations to confirm proper thermal environment.  Darn thing worked great.  



Just another idea for you.



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com



On Jul 8, 2016, at 5:08 AM, tonyvaccarella <tony(at)weimagine.com.au> wrote:






Hello all,



I'm the owner of a conventional tailwheel aircraft I purchased from the USA. This project was started in 1999 and still being built 



Not that Im near the finished stage yet but while reading the Builders Manual about finishing the aircraft it states 



" The first thing that you need to do with your flying surfaces is port cure them at a temperature between 40-50 deg C. This will improve their strength and cook off any remaining volatiles and moisture withing the epoxy system. "



Just wondering how builders have managed to do this. What equipment that have used and how they have controlled the temperature. What is our opinion about doing this on "old" wings that were completed in about year 2000.



I look forward to your comments



Regards,

Tony Vaccarella

Sydney

Australia



--------

Tony Vaccarella

Mascot NSW 2020

Sydney Australia

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